#2211 - Michael Shellenberger

6906.058 - 6924.916 Unnamed Speaker

And I mean, in his book, he talks about actually becoming addicted to opioids and having to kick and going through withdrawals. I mean, that's a very disciplined person. He has something to live for. One of the most amazing groups, there's two famous studies, the Vietnam veterans who were addicted to heroin that come back to the United States. They weren't around heroin anymore.