#2211 - Michael Shellenberger

5224.724 - 5244.917 Joe Rogan

And you also have to take into account that he was a straight-laced clinician. He was not a drug user. He was a guy that was studying the effects of these things and realized that there's a bunch of gaslighting as to what their actual effects of the pure versions of these things are. And that this concept that they are unbelievably addictive and you can't stop yourself, he thinks is false.