Can Starmer’s upbeat note drown out the donation scandal? w/ Zoë Grünewald and Simon Kuper

2445.413 - 2465.678 Simon Kuper

And what happens is a lot of conservative donors, like Michelle Moan, kind of WhatsApp ministers who they're mating with. Because if you're a donor, you meet politicians a lot at dinners because you get to be at the dinner. And they say, oh, well, I have a PPE company. I can supply you with kit. And the minister WhatsApps back saying, yeah, brilliant. I'll tell the civil servants too.