Can Starmer’s upbeat note drown out the donation scandal? w/ Zoë Grünewald and Simon Kuper

2015.016 - 2040.35 Simon Kuper

So when COVID happens... The Tory donors are saying, just, you know, open it all up. Don't lock us down. Just let it all hang out. And they're very anti-lockdown. And the Tories have to be nice to these people and listen to them because they give you money. But the Tories are thinking, yeah, but our voters are pensioners. They like having an NHS. They often rely on pensions, other state benefits.