Lex Fridman Podcast
#451 – Rick Spence: CIA, KGB, Illuminati, Secret Societies, Cults & Conspiracies
Rick Spence
You don't even need necessarily the people who are nominally at the top. For instance, the Ocrana, the real boss of the Ocrana was the Imperial Ministry of the Interior. The Minister of the Interior, in fact. But the Minister of the Interior had no real effective control over this at all.
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