137: Predator

3131.464 - 3163.28 John Scott-Railton

That's right, and I like to frame it sort of like this. After Snowden, a lot of governments... who didn't really know all the cool toys that the US government had, suddenly not only learned, but were like, hey, I got to get some of that. And you have this other dynamic, which is kind of like the first generations of people working within tier one government programs, developing exploitation tools.