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585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again

1347.811 - 1365.304 Chris

And on the sysadmin side, you'd have frustration with developers that didn't understand how the security dynamics worked or didn't understand all of the requirements that we had to run the system and wouldn't go through the hoops that we didn't want to set up, but we had to set up so that way we would be compliant, et cetera. And on the developer side, you had like,

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