Visa

10932.543 - 10953.412 Ben Gilbert

And the way that we did this in the Lockheed Martin episode was we said, let's look at the five defense contractors as one entity and say, what enables the five of them collectively to out-compete new entrants? And I think that's the right thing to do here with Visa and MasterCard too. At the end of the day, Visa and MasterCard have basically no sustainable competitive advantage over each other.