Sarah Dalton
Appearances
The Action Catalyst
The Five Talents That Really Matter, with Barry Conchie & Sarah Dalton (Leadership, Hiring, Research, Business)
I mean, just to add to what Barry is already saying, the idea with the five talents that really matter is that there are unchanging elements of who people are that drive very good performance in leadership roles. As Barry said, not everyone will have them or people will have them to different degrees. So what we wanted to do with this book is give people a means of very...
The Action Catalyst
The Five Talents That Really Matter, with Barry Conchie & Sarah Dalton (Leadership, Hiring, Research, Business)
Give people a very clear language and a means of identifying the characteristics in themselves that might lend to more effective leadership and to help them think about where they spend their time if they're going to develop those.
The Action Catalyst
The Five Talents That Really Matter, with Barry Conchie & Sarah Dalton (Leadership, Hiring, Research, Business)
Usually, I think one of the mistakes we make in our culture is thinking that we should be well-rounded people who are just good at everything or that we should focus on the weaknesses that we have and try and coach those to just get a little bit better. But that's not how you get the best performance out of people.
The Action Catalyst
The Five Talents That Really Matter, with Barry Conchie & Sarah Dalton (Leadership, Hiring, Research, Business)
We got to help people understand how they're unique and what talents make them stand out. And we know through research that if you want to get the best out of people, if you want to help them perform better, you've got to give them a way of understanding the natural talents that they have and the things that they naturally do really well.
The Action Catalyst
The Five Talents That Really Matter, with Barry Conchie & Sarah Dalton (Leadership, Hiring, Research, Business)
Because the more interesting question is how good could you be in those areas? We'll want people spending their time in the areas where they've got the greatest potential to develop and grow as leaders.
The Action Catalyst
The Five Talents That Really Matter, with Barry Conchie & Sarah Dalton (Leadership, Hiring, Research, Business)
So maybe a good piggyback to your book would be self-awareness for dummies. Yeah, yeah.
The Action Catalyst
The Five Talents That Really Matter, with Barry Conchie & Sarah Dalton (Leadership, Hiring, Research, Business)
We hear all kinds of books and stories and feel goods about what made somebody a great leader or, you know, a certain characteristic or something happened in their life or some kind of professional event or whatever. And I'm not saying there's not value in them. There's stories, there's inspiration.
The Action Catalyst
The Five Talents That Really Matter, with Barry Conchie & Sarah Dalton (Leadership, Hiring, Research, Business)
But in terms of really modeling a formula, a research based way of approaching leadership, it sounds like you've got the corner on that.
The Action Catalyst
The Five Talents That Really Matter, with Barry Conchie & Sarah Dalton (Leadership, Hiring, Research, Business)
Yeah, that passion definitely shines through. Thank you both so much. This has been super fun and really a fascinating topic. I can really hear the passion and the mission, making the world a better place with better leaders.
The Action Catalyst
The Five Talents That Really Matter, with Barry Conchie & Sarah Dalton (Leadership, Hiring, Research, Business)
Thank you so much.
The Action Catalyst
The Five Talents That Really Matter, with Barry Conchie & Sarah Dalton (Leadership, Hiring, Research, Business)
So you had a book 16 years ago, came out, did incredibly well. Tell us about this one, the difference. Bring us up to speed on that.
The Action Catalyst
The Five Talents That Really Matter, with Barry Conchie & Sarah Dalton (Leadership, Hiring, Research, Business)
So I'm going to ask you a question, and then I'm going to ask a similar one for you, Sarah. And you probably know the question, because as we just determined, humans are predictable. But just in case, in your tenure, Barry, the more you've seen, have you seen that people really stay the same? Or have you seen people as whole and as individuals change?
The Action Catalyst
The Five Talents That Really Matter, with Barry Conchie & Sarah Dalton (Leadership, Hiring, Research, Business)
Wow, that is food for thought. So flip side of that similar question to you, Sarah, when folks reach out to you and say, hey, we need some help improving our hiring processes, improving our retention, all the myriad things. How receptive do you really find that folks are to changing their mindset? I mean, in your experience, walk me through what that can look like.
The Action Catalyst
The Five Talents That Really Matter, with Barry Conchie & Sarah Dalton (Leadership, Hiring, Research, Business)
It's always a journey. It doesn't happen overnight because when you think about a typical hiring process that you lead any candidate through, the factors that we're usually looking at have to do with the person's background and career experience. So what companies they've worked in before, how long that they've been around in certain jobs.
The Action Catalyst
The Five Talents That Really Matter, with Barry Conchie & Sarah Dalton (Leadership, Hiring, Research, Business)
We look at the kind of skills and expertise that they list out on their resume, and then we get them in a room. And we try and have a human conversation with them. And at that point, what you're really doing is thinking about how you build chemistry with that person, whether or not you like them, whether you can see yourself working with them.
The Action Catalyst
The Five Talents That Really Matter, with Barry Conchie & Sarah Dalton (Leadership, Hiring, Research, Business)
But likability isn't a predictor of future job performance. And neither are the companies that you've worked in, how far you went in college, and or any other things that people typically list on their resume, none of those things predict future job performance.
The Action Catalyst
The Five Talents That Really Matter, with Barry Conchie & Sarah Dalton (Leadership, Hiring, Research, Business)
So it's the very reason why we can get someone who might be brilliant in an interview where we build up a ton of confidence about what we think they're going to be like in the job, and then we plug them in and then we find out otherwise. Every manager has had this experience where they've had this brilliant candidate in an interview.
The Action Catalyst
The Five Talents That Really Matter, with Barry Conchie & Sarah Dalton (Leadership, Hiring, Research, Business)
Everyone they've interviewed felt really good, really positive about them, but yet how they perform in the job isn't what we thought it was going to be. So none of the things we typically look at are a really good indicator of future performance. One of the first questions I ask some managers that I'm working with is, tell me what kind of candidate you're looking for. Describe it.
The Action Catalyst
The Five Talents That Really Matter, with Barry Conchie & Sarah Dalton (Leadership, Hiring, Research, Business)
And they'll always describe aspects of talent. So when they talk about, I need a really good problem solver, or I need someone who's going to be the relational glue. in an organization that's otherwise really dissatisfied right now. Or they talk about someone who can put good processes in place. These are all illustrations of very specific talents that we can measure in people.
The Action Catalyst
The Five Talents That Really Matter, with Barry Conchie & Sarah Dalton (Leadership, Hiring, Research, Business)
The difference is we put them through an assessment. We can ask way more questions in an assessment and get a much more reliable read of how people think and whether or not they have the talents that you might think they do in an interview, but they really don't. It's way too easy to fool someone in an interview where you've got no real experience with them.
The Action Catalyst
The Five Talents That Really Matter, with Barry Conchie & Sarah Dalton (Leadership, Hiring, Research, Business)
You're not exactly sure what questions to ask. So what I've got to do in my job is to wind people back and try and get them to hold back their own gut instincts and decision making about the candidates that they like and say, look, I know you might think this because you met them once or twice. But here's what the assessment results tell me about how they actually think.
The Action Catalyst
The Five Talents That Really Matter, with Barry Conchie & Sarah Dalton (Leadership, Hiring, Research, Business)
And here are the questions that you should be asking. It's a journey. It doesn't happen overnight. And they don't always listen to us. So they don't always take our advice. They don't always listen to us when we say, do not move forward. We just look at what happens. We're usually right. I was like, do you have a stack of I told you so cards? You do have a stack. We definitely have those.
The Action Catalyst
The Five Talents That Really Matter, with Barry Conchie & Sarah Dalton (Leadership, Hiring, Research, Business)
And that's, you know, that's what helps us tighten up some of our predictions and our understanding of what characteristics drive better performance in a role.
The Action Catalyst
The Five Talents That Really Matter, with Barry Conchie & Sarah Dalton (Leadership, Hiring, Research, Business)
Okay, so let me shift gears and talk about the book, The Five Talents That Really Matter. How Great Leaders Drive Extraordinary Performance. And I think what's just so just catching already is we are definitely seeing an emerging emphasis on a different kind of leadership than probably existed, Barry, when you first started in your career.
The Action Catalyst
The Five Talents That Really Matter, with Barry Conchie & Sarah Dalton (Leadership, Hiring, Research, Business)
The way that people are really embracing this idea that, you know, leadership isn't just about climbing the corporate ladder. It's a lot of responsibility, not just to those north of them, but to the folks that they're leading and managing, etc. So tell us a little bit about how the book came to be and maybe give us a couple of nuggets to entice us there.
The Action Catalyst
The Five Talents That Really Matter, with Barry Conchie & Sarah Dalton (Leadership, Hiring, Research, Business)
So let's start here. We rarely have two folks at the same time. So let's start with that. How did the two of you guys come to be working together? Share with me a little bit of that history.
The Action Catalyst
The Five Talents That Really Matter, with Barry Conchie & Sarah Dalton (Leadership, Hiring, Research, Business)
Sarah, did you want to chime in on this?
The Action Catalyst
The Five Talents That Really Matter, with Barry Conchie & Sarah Dalton (Leadership, Hiring, Research, Business)
Well, Barry and I worked together at the last company that I was with. He was one of their major clients. And when it came time for me to leave that organization, I reached out to Barry to ask him if he could help me get another job. And he just said, over my dead body, if you're leaving this company, you're coming on board with me.