Professor Steve Peters
Appearances
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Moment 197: The 10-Minute Rule That Beats ANY Bad Habit & This Weird Trick Forms Good Habits Instantly! Professor Steve Peters & Nir Eyal
If I wrote down, I'd say to someone, do you see yourself as someone who is a tidy person who gets on with things immediately? Or do you see yourself as someone who procrastinates and is pretty untidy? I'm untidy. Right. So if you've got that self-image and you go home and your room is untidy, I'm being very black and white here, then there's no feelings at all because that's who you are.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Moment 197: The 10-Minute Rule That Beats ANY Bad Habit & This Weird Trick Forms Good Habits Instantly! Professor Steve Peters & Nir Eyal
You're untidy. It's true. So that you don't do anything. It's true. Whereas if you say, right, change your image and say, actually, my chin being untidy, I'm a tidy person. In some cases, you're now programming the computer. You now go home and say, wow, this isn't me. And that can change. So if your self-image is, I'm not my chimp, that's an untidy little beggar. I am actually a tidy person.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Moment 197: The 10-Minute Rule That Beats ANY Bad Habit & This Weird Trick Forms Good Habits Instantly! Professor Steve Peters & Nir Eyal
How do I change that self-image? Well, you've got to sit down and reflect on this. I mean, a lot of the things in the book I've done as a young doctor, when I became a psychiatrist, I decided I didn't want to be a psychiatrist who didn't actually manage themselves. And that's no detriment to psychs who struggle because it's not an easy career or any therapist. It's a tough career.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Moment 197: The 10-Minute Rule That Beats ANY Bad Habit & This Weird Trick Forms Good Habits Instantly! Professor Steve Peters & Nir Eyal
But I decided, look, I'm going to work on me because I can't keep doing this, which is where the chimp model came from. And it was one of my light bulb moments many, many years ago where I would be procrastinating. And then I suddenly thought, you know what? That isn't who I want to be. So I thought, that isn't me. I'm actually someone who gets on with things.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Moment 197: The 10-Minute Rule That Beats ANY Bad Habit & This Weird Trick Forms Good Habits Instantly! Professor Steve Peters & Nir Eyal
And I used to get in and I'd just go, right, get on with it. And it's never left me. I just thought, no, that is who I am. So I become uncomfortable now. If things weren't tidy, I'd agitate and think, no, get it tidied up. So I start perceiving myself as this energised guy who's going to get up and do stuff.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Moment 197: The 10-Minute Rule That Beats ANY Bad Habit & This Weird Trick Forms Good Habits Instantly! Professor Steve Peters & Nir Eyal
which means if you operate with a human, your body and your reflexes will slow down because you're analysing as you go along and it slows the system so you're more pensive. If he goes into the second system, which we'll probably come back to, the chimp system, this is a primitive system which thinks. It's more than just a reaction, an impulsive system. It thinks.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Moment 197: The 10-Minute Rule That Beats ANY Bad Habit & This Weird Trick Forms Good Habits Instantly! Professor Steve Peters & Nir Eyal
So if you define your self-image, you're actually programming your computer to say, this is normal, anything else isn't, and that will actually help your chimp to agitate, which will then join forces and tidy the room. So instead of your chimp going, oh, I can't be bothered, suddenly it's saying, wow, I'm being told we're not untidy, so this is unacceptable and not normal. And that's what I did.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Moment 197: The 10-Minute Rule That Beats ANY Bad Habit & This Weird Trick Forms Good Habits Instantly! Professor Steve Peters & Nir Eyal
And I found that very powerful in my life.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Moment 197: The 10-Minute Rule That Beats ANY Bad Habit & This Weird Trick Forms Good Habits Instantly! Professor Steve Peters & Nir Eyal
Is that because sometimes the suffering has to... Yeah, I mean, it's sort of self-evident. If you're, for example, in a bad relationship and it's really not doing you any favours and it's not doing them any favours, but it's not bad enough, then you struggle along and struggle along. But if suddenly something happens where it becomes untenable and it's painful now, then you move.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Moment 197: The 10-Minute Rule That Beats ANY Bad Habit & This Weird Trick Forms Good Habits Instantly! Professor Steve Peters & Nir Eyal
You think, stop the relationship. And then you look back thinking, why didn't I move earlier? And the answer was because it wasn't painful enough. And the same with like untidiness. You leave it and leave it and leave it. And then somebody comes in and says... A partner. Yeah. Blimey. I can't live with this. And suddenly you think, wow, suddenly it's painful.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Moment 197: The 10-Minute Rule That Beats ANY Bad Habit & This Weird Trick Forms Good Habits Instantly! Professor Steve Peters & Nir Eyal
There are three systems in your head, keeping it very simple. It's much more complex than that, but simplifying it. One of the systems will help you think very logically, and I call that the human system. It thinks logically, but it's very slow.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Moment 197: The 10-Minute Rule That Beats ANY Bad Habit & This Weird Trick Forms Good Habits Instantly! Professor Steve Peters & Nir Eyal
Is there a way to get there without the person needing to point it out?
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Moment 197: The 10-Minute Rule That Beats ANY Bad Habit & This Weird Trick Forms Good Habits Instantly! Professor Steve Peters & Nir Eyal
yeah there is i mean when i talk about relationships are critical to us and i say to people the way we move is we've got to i have the triangle of change which is really the three key things that cause us to move and with the one you've highlighted is either it's got a massive reward or there's going to be massive pain and suffering so if you're trying to you want it you're courting someone you want to form a permanent relationship when they say i can't stand untidiness you'll guarantee your flat's perfect when they come in
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Moment 197: The 10-Minute Rule That Beats ANY Bad Habit & This Weird Trick Forms Good Habits Instantly! Professor Steve Peters & Nir Eyal
Right? Because you're thinking, if I don't, I'm going to lose this person. So the reward is so big. However, then they marry you, and for some reason we take them for granted, and we forget that bit now. And then the flat becomes untidy, and then she starts saying to you, you know, I'm struggling with this, I'm struggling, but there's no threat yet. So now it's not painful enough.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Moment 197: The 10-Minute Rule That Beats ANY Bad Habit & This Weird Trick Forms Good Habits Instantly! Professor Steve Peters & Nir Eyal
So she's struggling with it. I love the guy, but this is now what I do. So I say, let's increase the pain. I want you to sit down and imagine... she can't cope and she's had a bad day and someone at work says, oh, come over and chat. And this young man has a tidy flat, naturally. And she goes, oh, wow. And I warn people, how are you going to feel if she walks?
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Moment 197: The 10-Minute Rule That Beats ANY Bad Habit & This Weird Trick Forms Good Habits Instantly! Professor Steve Peters & Nir Eyal
Because once they've gone, they very rarely come back. And if you don't look after them, someone else will. If you reflect on that, that can suddenly make reality come to life to say, I'm not there yet, but blimey, this would be painful. So I'm suddenly going to stop and think, let me look after them. Because if I don't, somebody will.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Moment 197: The 10-Minute Rule That Beats ANY Bad Habit & This Weird Trick Forms Good Habits Instantly! Professor Steve Peters & Nir Eyal
So you can increase the concept of suffering by reflecting and thinking, what would life be like if she left? There's like the devil's in the detail. Let's say that you go home and you really make an effort. You tidy the house and you really clean it up. And she comes home and she doesn't notice. There's a danger now.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Moment 197: The 10-Minute Rule That Beats ANY Bad Habit & This Weird Trick Forms Good Habits Instantly! Professor Steve Peters & Nir Eyal
When it moves, it can move at speed. But it thinks emotionally. Finally, the third system is a computer. It just needs programming. The key to the computer, particularly in sport, is it moves so fast. It's approximately 20 times quicker than the human system to execute. And it's about four times quicker than the chimp system. Habits.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Moment 197: The 10-Minute Rule That Beats ANY Bad Habit & This Weird Trick Forms Good Habits Instantly! Professor Steve Peters & Nir Eyal
And I do advocate that sometimes you say to them, because your chimp needs to get that accolade. So it's no good not helping it. You don't need that, but your chimp does. So it's worth saying, can I just say, because I love you, I've tidied the flat. Because then your chimp goes, right, good, I get the accolade now. So I'm not saying you should knock the chimp out.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Moment 197: The 10-Minute Rule That Beats ANY Bad Habit & This Weird Trick Forms Good Habits Instantly! Professor Steve Peters & Nir Eyal
I'm saying you should be getting the chimp so it feels good. And then hopefully she'll say, wow, I love you too and I appreciate that. And then that's nicely rounded up. But you do get circumstances where I'll work with people and say, I tidied the flat, I did everything, and she doesn't even recognise it. I cancelled stuff for my diary, she didn't recognise it.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Moment 197: The 10-Minute Rule That Beats ANY Bad Habit & This Weird Trick Forms Good Habits Instantly! Professor Steve Peters & Nir Eyal
And I think, well, you know, I'm not saying I'm a goody-goody, but I'm saying let them know because your chimp's saying, please make sure they know. And they've recognised it. And again, I don't know, there may be couples where they say, if I say that, she'll lose it. So I say, well, don't do it then. Tell me and I as a therapist will say to you, well done. And that might be enough for your chimp.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Moment 197: The 10-Minute Rule That Beats ANY Bad Habit & This Weird Trick Forms Good Habits Instantly! Professor Steve Peters & Nir Eyal
So again, it's that thing which I keep saying to you, Steve, I've got to work with the person in front of me and even potentially their partner or family and say, well, what would they do before we make a plan?
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Moment 197: The 10-Minute Rule That Beats ANY Bad Habit & This Weird Trick Forms Good Habits Instantly! Professor Steve Peters & Nir Eyal
Yeah, one of the points. The other two, for people to shift, they've got to have psychological mindedness, which means they've got to understand that it's not about what happens to us in life, it's how we deal with it. That's basically what we mean.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Moment 197: The 10-Minute Rule That Beats ANY Bad Habit & This Weird Trick Forms Good Habits Instantly! Professor Steve Peters & Nir Eyal
So we understand that just because you've got certain emotions doesn't mean you can't change them and things have to change or people have to change for you to change. It's within your power. to be responsible for the things you believe and change. So psychological mindedness means you get up and start working on this. It's within your power to shift things. That's that personal responsibility.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Moment 197: The 10-Minute Rule That Beats ANY Bad Habit & This Weird Trick Forms Good Habits Instantly! Professor Steve Peters & Nir Eyal
Yes. And also if you can't shift them, you know, like say go back, let's say life hadn't been great for you. And I'm sure you worked hard to get where you've got. But let's say you still were in that poverty situation. You thought, I didn't have the skill to do what I'm doing. I didn't use that skill because it was never there.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Moment 197: The 10-Minute Rule That Beats ANY Bad Habit & This Weird Trick Forms Good Habits Instantly! Professor Steve Peters & Nir Eyal
So a lot of people are trapped and they say, well, I'm still living in a pretty bad place and I'm struggling financially. And that's a lot of people. It's painful. But again, psychological mindedness, tough as it is, is to say, well, let me deal with that. I can't change it, but I can change my approach to it. And that's not easy. I'm not saying that's easy.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Moment 197: The 10-Minute Rule That Beats ANY Bad Habit & This Weird Trick Forms Good Habits Instantly! Professor Steve Peters & Nir Eyal
And then you have to work at how do you do that, and it'll be different for different people. So psychological mindedness means take responsibility, accept what's in front of you, and then move forward.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Moment 197: The 10-Minute Rule That Beats ANY Bad Habit & This Weird Trick Forms Good Habits Instantly! Professor Steve Peters & Nir Eyal
um so other than that what you do non-psychological mind is where you blame everybody else or blame circumstances or say this happened to me in childhood or these may all be genuine but they're not actually helpful disempowering right yeah yeah you're using them as an excuse not to take responsibility and turn them over and whatever it's like giving your power to something else right yes
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Moment 197: The 10-Minute Rule That Beats ANY Bad Habit & This Weird Trick Forms Good Habits Instantly! Professor Steve Peters & Nir Eyal
And you've got to get the power back and say it's within my power. Why do people like doing that? Why do people like making excuses? Including me, I have to say. Again, it's really difficult to say. I mean, a lot of people, when they're in not a great place, find it very easy to be the victim. They don't want to be a victim, but they find it easy. So they'll use an illness.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Moment 197: The 10-Minute Rule That Beats ANY Bad Habit & This Weird Trick Forms Good Habits Instantly! Professor Steve Peters & Nir Eyal
as an example, so that it gives them that remit to say, well, I'm not well, I'm not well, when the reality is they don't know how to move forward. So it's easier to just go, I'm not well, and people then go, well, they're not well. And there'll be some truth in it, but actually not fully the truth. So people often use as a defence mechanism the victim role.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Moment 197: The 10-Minute Rule That Beats ANY Bad Habit & This Weird Trick Forms Good Habits Instantly! Professor Steve Peters & Nir Eyal
Sometimes they have been a victim and then they need to work through that and process it, but there's a danger you start to use it or you start blaming circumstance. Like you might have said to me, I didn't make it because my parents never helped me. Well, you know, there are people whose parents don't help them, but they do make it.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Moment 197: The 10-Minute Rule That Beats ANY Bad Habit & This Weird Trick Forms Good Habits Instantly! Professor Steve Peters & Nir Eyal
So you have to say, well, hang on, don't use that because it'll keep you in this not great place. There will be truth in it potentially. And then I would give the TLC and the recognition that that didn't help. But on the other hand, let's look at what you can do, regardless of the background.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Moment 197: The 10-Minute Rule That Beats ANY Bad Habit & This Weird Trick Forms Good Habits Instantly! Professor Steve Peters & Nir Eyal
What I'm saying with this is, again, teasing out the neuroscience, if we go on motivation, and again, if people use it, great, but the evidence is that it doesn't really help. It doesn't really work. It's very hard to maintain. Whereas if that's the chimp system, so it can work if your chimp is motivated because the reward is so big, their motivation will follow that and be high.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Moment 197: The 10-Minute Rule That Beats ANY Bad Habit & This Weird Trick Forms Good Habits Instantly! Professor Steve Peters & Nir Eyal
But we all know that I get a lot of talks, can you help motivate? And I say, no, not at all. I don't want to do that because you're constantly propping it up. My approach, which is not, as everyone will agree, is if you look at the neuroscience, if you use commitment, that means I remove my emotion and I plan on what I have to do and I get on with it.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Moment 197: The 10-Minute Rule That Beats ANY Bad Habit & This Weird Trick Forms Good Habits Instantly! Professor Steve Peters & Nir Eyal
So commitment, there's a lot of evidence that that makes us succeed. So, for example, if I've got to go and weed the garden, it's not my favourite pastime, but I think, right, you know, the neighbours might complain. I don't have any neighbours, but they might. And my chimp's going, oh, leave it, who cares? There's only weeds and it's going to kill you back.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Moment 197: The 10-Minute Rule That Beats ANY Bad Habit & This Weird Trick Forms Good Habits Instantly! Professor Steve Peters & Nir Eyal
But I would then say, which I will, right, you stay in here, I'm going out, and if you want to join me, great, but I'm doing the garden. I remove emotion and I say what has to be done is getting done and is getting done now. We're not discussing it and I will start.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Moment 197: The 10-Minute Rule That Beats ANY Bad Habit & This Weird Trick Forms Good Habits Instantly! Professor Steve Peters & Nir Eyal
Motivation will follow commitment and that means the chimp brain will then get behind me because by the time we've done half the garden, it will say, I can't believe we've left it this long. That's a typical approach by the chimp. And then it tries to make me finish. Now I might have to stop and say, let's respect my back now. We'll stop now. So I manage my emotions by using commitment.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Moment 197: The 10-Minute Rule That Beats ANY Bad Habit & This Weird Trick Forms Good Habits Instantly! Professor Steve Peters & Nir Eyal
And if they don't marry, I move them to one side. So I don't really work with emotion to drive me to do something. I think if people can use that and use motivation, that's great. My experience has been it doesn't actually hold.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Moment 197: The 10-Minute Rule That Beats ANY Bad Habit & This Weird Trick Forms Good Habits Instantly! Professor Steve Peters & Nir Eyal
Okay, there's lots of ways we form habits, whether they're helpful or destructive. And I'm giving examples. So that's one you picked out. That's quite powerful if you grasp it. So, for example, I'll take the simple example, which I may have put in the book. I don't remember.