Patty Wetterling
Appearances
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
And there's a... There's a sense of, you know, you're supposed to protect your children. And then there are situations that we can't protect our kids from.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
One second. I keep choking here. What happened with me was that, you know, my being a stay-at-home person, mom, I, kids were my world. And I believe that children have the right to grow up safe and follow their dreams. And I began, that was a big part of my message. We need to build a world where that protects that.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
And as you alluded to earlier, child abduction is related to, it's on the, the long line of child victimization and, you know, pornography, uh, Grooming, sex trafficking, child sexual assault. I mean, they're all along this line of child victimization. If we want to stop this, we've got to stop sexual exploitation of children. And to do that, we need to raise kids who would never think twice.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
to sexually harm another person. We have to raise healthy children with respectful relationship training. And when some go astray, the good news is children who've been charged with sexual assaulting somebody else, when given treatment, they have the highest rate of Of success and never repeating the lowest rate of recidivism, like 97% in one study don't reoffend sexually.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
It's really rewarding to know that if a child acts out that they can get some help. And they're not on a trajectory to be forever causing harm. And so we need to be really cognizant of the big problem. I think this is where public health comes in. We can't wait till it's this. We've got to go upstream and work towards that world. And it is a world that Jacob Nguyen believed in. He
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
He was an advocate. We had a lot of great friends and he would come home from school and scream if something wasn't fair. You know, it might not have had anything to do with him, but it mattered. when something wasn't fair. And he would stick up for his friends. And I think that that's a big part of it. The other piece, which kept me sane, was the way our community rallied.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
Everybody came together and kids were jumping rope for Jacob. And when I met with some... homeless kids and they were trying to give me their lunch money for the reward and search fund um teachers sent notes from children and the notes were so you know never give up stay there for jacob if my parents quit hoping for me i wouldn't want to go home you know it's like
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
Listening to their take on the story was really important for me and my advocacy work. It's like, I'm fighting for that world that they deserve.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
It did. It became a... a personal battle between the bad guy. Like I refuse to let him take anything else. You can't have the world that Jacob knew. I will fight for that till forever. You know, do I lighten up on my activities now that I'm old? Yeah.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
But I still, I love believing in the world where kids can dream and go after their dreams and have the support system and the tools that they need to build a healthy, happy life.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
which is just... But there's some clarifiers. Often, well, the highest category is a runaway child, and they are at very high risk, especially in today's world, of being exploited. Somebody offering them shelter for favors or food. And that's part of giving kids empowerment and knowing how to find resources that are healthier and not fall for those tricks and lures.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
Most kids are not abducted at gunpoint like Jacob was. Most are tricked or lured into a dangerous situation. And I think many of those are preventable. Watch who's watching your children. If my one daughter had a coach who would call the girls and ask about their clothing. And it got really one of those trust your gut, there was something not right about this.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
And so we had discussions about, you know, because I can't be with, you know, our, my daughters all the time. So what should they do when something happens and having adults that they can talk to, and it's not always the parent that kids can go to, but Trusted adults. I used to tell my kids, talk to your Uncle Russ. My brother is a hoot. He's funny. He's approachable.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
They could talk to him about anything. And so, you know, giving your kids that empowerment. And then of those, you know, the runaway kids, you know, they come home. It's a big challenge for law enforcement because some kids run many times a year. So those numbers capture repeat runners as well. So the number of abduction, stereotypical abduction is about 1% of all of that. It's the smallest piece.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
But the thing is, it's the one that has the greatest amount of fear. So we have to watch, you know, about stats and numbers and collecting numbers. Yeah. They've been inflated over time, and then they kind of come back to reality. And I think of stereotypical kidnapping, those have not changed over time. It's pretty much the same each year.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
I'd say it's under 100 that are stereotypical kidnapping every year. But the number of kids exploited, especially with the Internet and the social media... games online, that number is exponential. We have to really be careful about that world that we're introducing our children to at really young ages.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
But they're also very harmful because you're snatching a child from everything they know, from their pets, their dogs, their friends, their school, their toys, their clothes, you know, and putting them in another world. And it's really traumatic for these kids. Yeah. There was an organization, I'm not sure if they're still active, called Take Root because they're uprooted literally.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
And then they sometimes get put back with the original parent. And that doesn't always go so easily either because they're manipulated in this process. So there are better ways to handle family stress than to stealing a child from a parent. Right. That's the one. And there are those who have taken the child and it's been a murder or murder-suicide and it's horrific. So we can't belittle.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
It's all part of... Oh, the responsibility of parenting and knowing where resources are and not feeling alone. There are so many more resources now than there were in child advocacy centers where you can take a child. If they need to see the other parent, they can safely do that in a setting that is supervised and everybody wins. The child is safe.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
they both parents get visitation and you can rebuild whatever harm had happened so that there are lots of tools for parents um don't feel there was a loan the other the other advocacy piece that i was really proud of is i didn't know any other parent and when i called the national center for missing and exploited they protected the families they worked with so they wouldn't give me anybody to talk to so we've got a federal grant and
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
set up this parent-to-parent mentoring. And there were 24 family members that we pulled together way back in the early 90s. And they've assisted over, last I saw, 110,000 people to just connect. You're not alone. And how do you get through holidays? And how do you deal with your other siblings?
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
And just the media, the law enforcement, it's like we had so much going on and we could share everything. we could share energy and build and provide hope. And with that, kids come home. You know, I've met Elizabeth Smart, who was gone for nine months. I met JC Dugard, 17 and a half years she was gone. I know her mom. And kids come home.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
We cannot give up on them just because they've been missing a long time. And So it's one thing to hear their stories. It's another to sit at a table and listen to them and feel that energy and talk about healing. The Cleveland women who were gone for 10 years reclaimed their lives. It's like they own every minute of every day. Nobody's going to tell them what to eat, what to wear, where to go.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
You know, they have rebuilt their lives and they're phenomenal.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
Right, exactly. I think each time they did something that used to be normal, there was a pause. And the bike thing we live, there's two circles of, of houses. So they could bike between the two circles. And I feel, I think a sense of, of safety because everybody was, it, it's that sense of community, you know, everybody is there for one another and they knew houses where they could stop and, and,
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
there would be always somebody caring for them. But I did get a letter from a woman who said her nephew was four when Jacob was kidnapped and he refused to ride his bike. He refused to learn how to ride a bike. And when he was 12, his dad took him out and put him on a bike. And his hope, the fear was Jacob was kidnapped while riding his bike.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
And this, this child was deathly afraid of learning to ride a bike.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
Thank you. And one of the things that I talk to parents about, it kind of goes to your question, Stan. You start by, you know, it's like, yes, you can ride over to
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
Jason's house call me when you get there you know you you have rules and let me one time I dropped this was scary to me I dropped Trevor off at a dance at North Junior High and when I went to pick him up two hours later he wasn't there and the school was dark and he's I was, I was freaked out as you can imagine.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
Um, cause of course Jacob was already missing and now I didn't have a clue where Trevor was. And, um, He came running behind the building and he said, you know, not hardly anybody showed up for the dance. So they closed it early. So I went over to so-and-so's house and just stayed there until it was time. And I said, Trevor, that's great. That's really smart. Call me.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
You know, I really didn't know where you were. I had no idea. And if you hadn't come back at this time, I would have no idea. no idea. And that was scary to me. You know, parents can be scared too. So you build that, that trust and communication. And then to your comment earlier, I think it's what you won't talk about with kids that scares them the most.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
So having conversations and building, I like to encourage parents, let your child at young ages pay for something in the grocery store. If they want candy, then they pay the clerk. They learn how to interact and, with people through doing things and they gain confidence and that helps keep them safe as well. Sorry.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
Yes, and it's a respectfulness, a thoughtfulness, but it's hard when they get to those ages where you know, 18 to 25 or six, they're not, that prefrontal cortex isn't fully developed. They're not always thinking about mom and dad or consequences and all of that. So yeah, it's just, it's, it's, you never stop parenting. You never do.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
That's a really good question. Thank you. One of the first things that we worked on, I asked law enforcement, what would have helped? What would, what would you need to respond quicker and better? And as you know, the Amber plan came out later with Amber Hagerman in Texas was missing and they, they activated the media immediately. And that became a national program, which was really good.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
Minnesota had, we had, I met Amber's mom and, We had that going before there was a national initiative to make it everybody having it. But I asked them what else they would need, and there were two things. We did not have a central repository of information in Minnesota for law enforcement, and they were building it at the time, but I think it helped expedite getting that finished.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
But the other one was sex offender registry, and it would help law enforcement to know who's done this before in the past. And I think it's a good law enforcement tool, but when it became community notification so everybody knows about these people, it got a little more complicated. And I think that we need to revisit what part of this is working, what part of this is interfering with.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
with people building a better life. Maybe they made a mistake when they were 17, but they're 27 now and want to start a family and whatever. Are we restricting the possibility of them going forward? What really troubled me was we passed this law. So there's sex offender registry in all 50 states, but then they started strengthening it thinking, you know,
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
This is a tool, and they made it harsher and harsher and started registering children. Children as young as 10 years old are on a sex offender registry in Minnesota. Wow. I was shocked. I did not know. And because I just said, they're the best recipients of getting treatment and the least likely to reoffend. So why would we – that's like a life sentence if you put a child on a registry. Yeah.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
I've been working really hard. That's not the best manner of dealing with a child who acts out sexually. Let's get them some help, change the trajectory, give them some resources and better ways of interacting with one another. So I think that if you pass laws that you need to revisit and see what part needs to be changed or revised to make it better.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
And that this is certainly one that I think it's a good law enforcement tool. Mm-hmm. But sometimes people act out on it stupidly and burn down houses of somebody or, you know, cause other harm. And that's not what you want. And it kind of gets back to community. In the Native community, they have healing circles.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
Somebody does wrong, they bring people together and they make sure that this person stays on the path that they're supposed to be. It can be healthier for everybody. So there's, there's a lot I've learned along the way. There's no magic pill. There's no one easy thing that will fix all of it.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
But I, I do believe it is building better citizens and having kids that after Jacob was found, it's a, it's a great story. The one of my friends at the national center called her office and her nephew wanted to put 11 on his cheek because that was Jacob's Jersey number. And, um, asked for permission to do that for a soccer tournament in Maryland or Virginia. It was right around the DC area.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
And we thought it was a great idea, but our office thought it'd be good if it stood for something. So they put together all the 11 things they've heard me say over and over that Jacob knew and believed in. Can I read them to you?
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
It's just be fair, be kind, be understanding, be honest. be thankful, be a good sport, be a good friend, be joyful, be generous, be gentle with others, and be positive. And I truly believe if we taught our kids to do these 11 things, that we would build kids who wouldn't harm another. And, and we would have more peaceful communities.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
And I get a card from one of Amy's friends. Every year she has her kids. Well, the first year I was like, what does it mean to be fair? What does it mean to be kind? And they each had a little explanation, you know, sitting by a new kid in the school that At lunchtime, you know, just I was at one school and there was a sign in the back. They'd all made posters and it said, be gentle with others.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
It was really messy. I went up close and these kids had made it out of brown band-aids.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
on blue construction paper be gentle with others kids get it they want that they want to be good friends and i just think it's nurturing how we want them to be instead of just saying don't do this and don't bully and don't do you know it's like be kind be understanding and it is great discussion i hear from parents and kids all the time that it's helpful
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
Absolutely. Absolutely. Yes. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but, um, I think the National Center for Missing and Exploited or the Office of Justice Programs has, has numbers of them and it is brilliant. It's getting people while they're out, they're driving or they're on, they got their headset on while they're running and they're, they're looking.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
And I know cases in Minnesota where one child was looking out the window and she saw the car, you know, called her mom in and, and they, they reported it. Um, It's empowering people to be part of the solution. And it's brilliant and it works. And I actually know one other case in Minnesota where a child was missing and it was an older guy that she was not supposed to be hanging with.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
And everybody texted him. It's like, dude, everybody's looking for you. Let her off. And he did. He let her go and left.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
um she was safe you know so it's like using the tools we have social media is out there where people are and it gets i've been in stores where an amber thing went on all of a sudden everybody's looking at their phone and it's it's it just made me smile you know yeah i mean that's the way kids come home is when somebody knows the story and they see something and it's like um how it is that we can use uh technology
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
The book was for me, you know, I was charging forward for 27 years. I was just driven. And it was a chance to reflect. I kind of like look back at what just what just happened. I really felt when Jacob was found, I went through horrific experiences. feeling a failure. It's like, oh, what was that all about?
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
I lived my whole life searching, my whole career, 27 years is a career, you know, and didn't get the answers we wanted. So I had to look at where we had come and what had happened and what things are better and just reflect on the whole journey. It was very therapeutic for me. A lot of people thought it would be too painful, but I'd already lived through it. So it was just like,
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
making meaning of something that I couldn't make meaning of at the time. So that was good. Joy Baker was a big part of helping us find the answers because she was asking questions nobody had asked. And she found those other victims who had told the police, but nothing had been investigated way back in Painesville in 1987. You know, it was a different world then.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
But when they started coming forward and sharing their story, it opened up the answers. That's how we got this guy to come forward. And so she was very helpful. We started writing before Jacob was found, and it was yet another tool to keep everybody looking. And then when he was found, I just quit writing. I was like, done. I lost about two years. It takes time. You have to give yourself time.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
And everybody else went back to work, but that was my work. And I quit doing a lot of the things that I had done for a while. I still kept up with law enforcement trainings because they need to know how to interact with families because they absolutely are lifesavers to the families. and keeping them going. So I did that. But anyway, when he was found, then it became a different book.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
So we almost had to start over. And Joy was really good. It's like, tell me about growing up. What was your mom like? So I started writing about things that were fun and happy memories. And And then she would just give me little note cards or assignments. And so we built our way back. And I'm proud of the book. I think it's a story of hope and resilience and persistence.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
And everybody, I was just a stay-at-home mom. I think a lot of people need to know that they can do it, that you can do this. If you see something and it needs change, you can be that change agent. It doesn't take...
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
college degrees or special anything it takes commitment and heart follow your heart and that I think we need to do for children more and more so it really helped us and then when doing the book signings it was a sense of community that we were talking about earlier people have overwhelmingly shown up and the stories that they share are heartwarming it's like you helped me process this and
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
I had a long conversation with my now 11-year-old son. Many of the kids are now parents of 11-year-olds, and they have to deal with their own memory of missing their buddy and now parenting their own children. So it's an opportunity to have discussions, build safety into their world, keep open communication. So it's been really heartwarming. to get the book out. The U.S.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
attorney, Andy Lugar, read the book three times and he had a whole list of pages of how can we do this better? And he invited Joy and I and Jared and the other victim and my husband to present to his staff because that's how you make things better is revisiting what was and what it's not faulting. I can't fault
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
law enforcement for what they did in 1987 or 89 with today's standards we didn't have those tools right right they did a phenomenal job and they never quit yeah that's the other message is like don't give up life's hard but but stay in there if it's if it's worth fighting for and to me the 11 thing was important because it got us gave us a chance to celebrate how jacob lived
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
not how he was taken, not how he died, but this, this is the boy that I knew. I can hear him. I can hear his voice. I can hear him, you know, saying something wasn't fair, you know, this kid got in trouble and he didn't even pass the note, you know, it's like whatever it was.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
Yeah. You're presenting opportunities in a path and a vision that's different than what they saw before. And I love that sense of community coming together. And I think our world is thirsty for that once again.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
together on this planet and we can build great things when we work together. And we experienced it. My strength, I didn't do any of the things that you gave me credit for alone. I was nurtured and supported by agencies and individuals and community members. And we need that. We need to rebuild that. That's what this country was formed on and what I think it's the glue.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
To me, it's belief. Believe in the world as you want it to be. And then you can take the steps to getting there. But if you lose hope, you don't have that clarity of vision. And I think that we need to honor children because they are the future. And they can, given we've got so many tools for them now, the Search Institute has all kinds of tools. things that kids need to be healthy and strong.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
And we can build those if we pay attention. It's not about the money. It's not about the title or the, you know, power. It is really about the nurturing of one another and caring for one another and believing, um, in that and people that you interact with.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
Oh, gosh. It was when Jacob was kidnapped, I As you said, I was a stay-at-home mom. I knew nothing about child victimization. Who would do that? I mean, it was out of my realm of consciousness. It was like the rug being pulled out from under you. So I had no foundation to stand on. And our kids were... My oldest was 13. And... Jacob 11, Trevor 10, and Carmen was only eight.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
So, you know, immediately everybody, everybody was sick. Carmen regressed a bit, started sucking her thumb again. And, you know, just the stability of, of our lives was, was shaken to the, to the core. So it was a matter of rebuilding and finding something you could, could hang on to, to, to move forward. And The hope is a critical ingredient in life.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
We had to hope and believe that Jacob was going to be okay and he was coming home. And I worked with the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children and they told us, kids come home, don't give up. And So that became a critical part of it for me physically, I'm diabetic. So I had been diabetic for, I don't know, five years.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
And the physical change, the stress, you know, can just send sugar levels soaring. And I knew that if I wanted to find Jacob, if I wanted to be there for my family, I had to take care of myself and rebuild strength. Yeah. step by step. And we got a lot of support from surprisingly law enforcement. I was probably driving them crazy, standing over their shoulder.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
And it's like, you need to work out. What did you used to do? And I used to dance and it's like nothing inside of me wanted to dance again. So I started running a little bit and swimming. I was sharing with you, a friend of mine was in charge of worked in the FIAD department at Cold Spring High School.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
So she would open up the pool and let me swim in that pool, just laps for as long as I needed to. And it was brilliant. I teased her about needing a new filter to get rid of the stress that I'd left behind. But physically moving was a big part of us regaining strength.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
Yes. And in the other piece that, you know, we had to, we had to coach our kids with was, you know, so much about health is it's, it's physical, mental and spiritual. And sometimes kids would say mean things, you know, like my mom says he's dead and you should move on. And so we would have family discussions about how do you respond to They're not meant to be mean, but it can sound.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
And it caught my daughter, the youngest, off guard. I had to go pick her up from a camp. because somebody had said some things that she just wasn't ready to hear. And she ended up with a stomach ache and the nurse called and I had to, you know, retrieve her from that.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
So we would get, we would empower our kids with, you know, well, that's not what we think, or you don't really know that, or I think I'll go over here, you know, just some way to get out of a situation. So we, we had a lot of family discussions. We had a lot of counseling. I had been seeking at that point in time, I had been a teacher.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
So I was, I was trying to figure out now that my kids were all in school, what was I going to do next? And so I had gone to a guidance counselor or not a guidance counselor, a career counselor. And so I was really receptive to getting help because we were facing something that really no human being should have to face. And it's hard to make sense of anything. For example,
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
Um, everybody said to me, I bet you just want to keep your kids, just hold them tight, never let them out of the house again. And for me, it was the opposite. I saw absolute terror in these kids' eyes and I didn't want them to be afraid of this big old world out there. You know, I wanted them to, to live freely and have confidence. And so I would have to encourage them.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
You can go with Candace and her parents will bring you home, hold hands. and you'll be okay. And to just, you know, give them confidence that they are, because without a sense of safety, kids can't stand really well. That's, you know, basic need is Pavlov's, you know, hierarchy needs feeling safe. So we had to work on that. I would often drop one of them off at a friend's house and,
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
turn the corner and just fall apart because it was hard, but, but they needed that. And, and I wanted them, I wanted them to, I wanted them to, hang on to the world as it had been a little bit as best we could.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
Yes, I do. And I most of us shy away from the word closure because you really can't go back to who you were. It's got answers. I like I like the word answers a little bit better and answers help. There was a nagging, nagging. sense of not having the answers was really hard to live with. And I was driven. I was, I was driven by, you know, gathering information.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
And then with each thing I learned, I was a teacher before, you know, I taught junior high math and I love math because you figure out a problem, there's an answer. But, but this was something that was, I would gather information and then I had this inner drive to have to share that with other parents. And, Fear is not something that keeps kids safe.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
There's no research showing that scared kids are safer. So we tried really hard to take away the fear and teach kids how to interact with other individuals so that they would know and trust that sense of something's not right here and get away from dangerous situations. So taking away the fear was a big part of why I would go out and speak. Yeah.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
And, and I, you know, I, I, to this day, I, I still think, you know, it's a, it's a thing that scares parents the most. And yet they believe, you know, it's like fear of strangers and that we learned is, is not the, the, the biggest source of fear. Really. It's most often someone, you know, that harms a child, somebody knows a child or the family, at least casually.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
And for us, it was a total stranger, but, we didn't know that till the very end.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
Yes, absolutely. And, and I, I love that. You know, there's a really sense of, um, being alone. You know, I was so alone. I didn't know anybody who had a missing child at, at that point in my life. But there's comfort in sharing with other parents, their trauma, their journey and supporting one another. I met a woman whose son was 15. He'd been in a terrible car accident and he was in a coma.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
And she said, would you like to meet my son? And I was not sure if I was strong enough to do that, but we were right across the street from the hospital. So I did, I went in and he was in a coma, but she knew that he knew she was there. He would squeeze her hand and, and she knew where he was and it gave her, you know, strength to, to visit. And, you know, we could support one another.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
She was somewhat, I, it's, it's a, there's crazy dynamics when you have extreme situations, but often though, you might have somebody who had lost a child to cancer and, But they would say to me, but it's not as bad as, you know, and I don't think that's fair to any of us to compare because the loss of a child is that deep, deep, raw, horrible thing. We're not supposed to outlive our children.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
And so I think acknowledging the wrongness in the scheme of what we thought life was going to be is it's healthy. It's healthy to acknowledge. Yeah.