Pamela Slim
Appearances
The Action Catalyst
REMASTERED: Body of Work, with Pamela Slim (Careers, Sales, Storytelling, Business)
Even huge institutions that we thought would never fail can fail. And that which we consider to be even a solid, respectable career is not really anything that we can count on.
The Action Catalyst
REMASTERED: Body of Work, with Pamela Slim (Careers, Sales, Storytelling, Business)
And I think that's something that can only strengthen what it is you do on the sales side.
The Action Catalyst
REMASTERED: Body of Work, with Pamela Slim (Careers, Sales, Storytelling, Business)
I love it. Well, Pamela, thank you so much. This has just been awesome. And thank you for being on the show.
The Action Catalyst
REMASTERED: Body of Work, with Pamela Slim (Careers, Sales, Storytelling, Business)
Thanks for having me. I appreciate it.
The Action Catalyst
REMASTERED: Body of Work, with Pamela Slim (Careers, Sales, Storytelling, Business)
And what was interesting to me as somebody who has worked in and studied the world of work for so long is it felt like there was something that kind of permanently etched reality in all of our minds, which said even huge institutions that we thought would never fail can fail. And that which we consider to be even a solid, respectable career is not really anything that we can count on.
The Action Catalyst
REMASTERED: Body of Work, with Pamela Slim (Careers, Sales, Storytelling, Business)
So there's a part of the message, I think, that is just acknowledging the reality. I've always been a very pragmatic optimist where I like to look at the reality and say, truly, as Individual business owners, we can't count on the market staying the same as we've seen through a number of different economic downturns.
The Action Catalyst
REMASTERED: Body of Work, with Pamela Slim (Careers, Sales, Storytelling, Business)
As corporate employees, we can't count on our organization to stay the same or our customer base or positions. But when we know that, then we can do specific things to actually make ourselves better.
The Action Catalyst
REMASTERED: Body of Work, with Pamela Slim (Careers, Sales, Storytelling, Business)
indispensable and highly employable, whether we're redeployed within our own organizations when change does happen, or to also be a person if you do end up being laid off that you're highly flexible and you can quickly get another job or have other kinds of business opportunities. And I always say it's by force or by choice.
The Action Catalyst
REMASTERED: Body of Work, with Pamela Slim (Careers, Sales, Storytelling, Business)
Being somebody who's been a coach for a long time, I work with a lot of people who are choosing to make a career transition or choosing to start a business or to move up in an organization. But I think given the unstable nature of the economy and of organizations, more and more people will have that path. And so we really do need a new way of looking at our careers.
The Action Catalyst
REMASTERED: Body of Work, with Pamela Slim (Careers, Sales, Storytelling, Business)
That was really the driving force behind writing body of work is I found I've worked in just about every work mode you can imagine. I've been in the nonprofit sector. I've, uh, you know, run a nonprofit as a volunteer. I worked in corporate. I've been an entrepreneur. I've been a stay at home mom. And, uh,
The Action Catalyst
REMASTERED: Body of Work, with Pamela Slim (Careers, Sales, Storytelling, Business)
You know, I find that really the way that we can actually, you know, create a strong sense of always being employable is by the narrative that we tell. And if we're looking at the general narrative, which is have you been a stable person, which means that you've been in one organization for a long time. Now, again, even if you want to do that, it's not necessarily possible.
The Action Catalyst
REMASTERED: Body of Work, with Pamela Slim (Careers, Sales, Storytelling, Business)
So you need to constantly be retelling yourself.
The Action Catalyst
REMASTERED: Body of Work, with Pamela Slim (Careers, Sales, Storytelling, Business)
story about who you are and what your strengths are and what valuable things that you've contributed the really good side to this equation is as one side of the new world of work is instability the other side is an amazing opportunity that we have for doing all kinds of different work and on the personal branding side we have so many tools now that allow us to tell our stories in compelling ways through things like blogs or social media
The Action Catalyst
REMASTERED: Body of Work, with Pamela Slim (Careers, Sales, Storytelling, Business)
our own websites, I think we have a lot more capacity to create a cohesive story about ourselves than we ever did in the past.
The Action Catalyst
REMASTERED: Body of Work, with Pamela Slim (Careers, Sales, Storytelling, Business)
salespeople are kind of classically known for switching companies. What is your opinion on that? Do you think it's negative to be switching all the time?
The Action Catalyst
REMASTERED: Body of Work, with Pamela Slim (Careers, Sales, Storytelling, Business)
Yeah, I think there's two things. The first is, for my definition of body of work, it's really as you look at the course of your life, what are all the things that you really want to create, contribute, affect, and impact? That's the one decision that you would make is really what is that body of work that you want to create based on things that are really important to you
The Action Catalyst
REMASTERED: Body of Work, with Pamela Slim (Careers, Sales, Storytelling, Business)
Using your skills and your strengths. And so with that as a definition, I don't just mean concrete things like helping to build organizations through sales, which is a hugely important skill set, which salespeople have. But it's also in what are the intangible ways in which you affect the world? How are you as a parent, as a community member?
The Action Catalyst
REMASTERED: Body of Work, with Pamela Slim (Careers, Sales, Storytelling, Business)
as a spouse, you know, what are you really contributing? What's your emotional wake that you leave as you really walk through the world? And is it something that you feel proud of and that you really leave as a legacy? So when you think about it from that perspective, to move around or not move around, to me, it's really addressed by why. And sometimes,
The Action Catalyst
REMASTERED: Body of Work, with Pamela Slim (Careers, Sales, Storytelling, Business)
you can be pursuing what seems to be the next great opportunity. I really was fortunate. I spent about three years with a client who had a sales training business. So I've worked with hundreds and hundreds of salespeople who I think happened to be some of the most interesting, flexible, positive people. I really like it. I love the skill set. I love the fact that the skill set
The Action Catalyst
REMASTERED: Body of Work, with Pamela Slim (Careers, Sales, Storytelling, Business)
is really flexible and that you do have to get enthusiastic and care about what you're doing. Really infuse yourself in a culture, in a company, in order to be able to really sell effectively. And so it is the kind of skill set of any, I think, that are out there. that can be really effective to be moving in different places.
The Action Catalyst
REMASTERED: Body of Work, with Pamela Slim (Careers, Sales, Storytelling, Business)
But my question would be, are you just jumping to what seems to be the next great opportunity because of maybe a financial outcome? Or are you conscious about what it is that you want to create? So for example, you might be somebody who works in tech
The Action Catalyst
REMASTERED: Body of Work, with Pamela Slim (Careers, Sales, Storytelling, Business)
One of the nicest people in the world, Pamela Slim. And if you've been in the world of blogs and social media for any amount of time, surely you know Pamela. She is an award-winning author, coach, speaker, and has kind of an interesting story. And her book is called Body of Work.
The Action Catalyst
REMASTERED: Body of Work, with Pamela Slim (Careers, Sales, Storytelling, Business)
who gets really excited about helping early-stage entrepreneurs create a solid foundation for their business and to get sales moving in the early stage. So in that case, maybe you're just working for an organization to get them up to that stage, develop the capacity of the internal folks to sell more effectively and hire other people, and then you're ready to go on to the next challenge.
The Action Catalyst
REMASTERED: Body of Work, with Pamela Slim (Careers, Sales, Storytelling, Business)
And especially if you would tie... that particular technology to one that you're passionate about, right? The same thing could be true where you might be selling a service that you're really passionate about, some kind of health-related service or artistic pursuit. I think that's the beautiful thing is with a sales, you know, a selling skill set,
The Action Catalyst
REMASTERED: Body of Work, with Pamela Slim (Careers, Sales, Storytelling, Business)
then you can really learn how to sell in many different industries to many different people. But from an individual career perspective, I would say, are you giving yourself enough time in each role to really be building that which you want to build? And there's always, you always have the capacity, I think, to tell a compelling story.
The Action Catalyst
REMASTERED: Body of Work, with Pamela Slim (Careers, Sales, Storytelling, Business)
But the reality is, you know, in terms of how you might sell yourself to somebody or you might explain your history and how it is that you've moved through many different positions. I think the important thing to remember is that your work really does speak for you.
The Action Catalyst
REMASTERED: Body of Work, with Pamela Slim (Careers, Sales, Storytelling, Business)
So if you truly have had integrity in your roles, you've done a great job, you've developed really powerful relationships, and you move on, that's the kind of enduring legacy that your work really speaks for. And that can't be spun. That's what other people are going to be talking about, you know, when they talk about you. And
The Action Catalyst
REMASTERED: Body of Work, with Pamela Slim (Careers, Sales, Storytelling, Business)
In today's job environment, I think that is how people get jobs is based on your reputation of what you've actually built and done.
The Action Catalyst
REMASTERED: Body of Work, with Pamela Slim (Careers, Sales, Storytelling, Business)
So is it fair to say that, you know, like body of work, it's almost like personal branding?
The Action Catalyst
REMASTERED: Body of Work, with Pamela Slim (Careers, Sales, Storytelling, Business)
It is exactly right. I mean, the first piece is what actually are you creating, right? How are you being conscious about that work that you actually want to do in the world? What organizations do you want to support? You know, what problems do you want to solve? And then you do that through your skills and strengths.
The Action Catalyst
REMASTERED: Body of Work, with Pamela Slim (Careers, Sales, Storytelling, Business)
But yes, the way that you help people understand who you are and what you do is by the story you tell. It is the meta skill of the 21st century, which by the way, has always been the meta skill, right? Storytelling is the way that we all relate to each other. We have since the very early days. And the good thing is that's actually what good salespeople understand, right?
The Action Catalyst
REMASTERED: Body of Work, with Pamela Slim (Careers, Sales, Storytelling, Business)
But I think there's two parts to the story. There's what is the story you're telling yourself? Are you saying, oh my gosh, You know, my work history sounds really sketchy. I'm desperate. I need to get a job. Oh, my gosh. In which case, it's hard then to create a compelling, authentic story to somebody else. Right. Versus where you say, I, you know, I may not have had a perfect past.
The Action Catalyst
REMASTERED: Body of Work, with Pamela Slim (Careers, Sales, Storytelling, Business)
Everybody has challenges, you know, in your life and your work. But this is the meaning that I've really gotten from it. And these are the kinds of projects that I've really thought about that I want to contribute to. And here's why my specific skills fit. And so, yes, that is personal branding. I think the thing I want to underline is
The Action Catalyst
REMASTERED: Body of Work, with Pamela Slim (Careers, Sales, Storytelling, Business)
And it gives sort of a fresh perspective on the skills required in the new world of work from both corporate to nonprofit to small business to salespeople to all the above. Pamela, thanks for being on the show.
The Action Catalyst
REMASTERED: Body of Work, with Pamela Slim (Careers, Sales, Storytelling, Business)
It's really based on deep integrity with yourself and with the work that you want to do. And then that just has natural positive impacts in terms of the opportunities that open up for you. And I think people, you know, buy for different reasons. We're wired a little bit differently. Some folks are very much make decisions based on personal relationships and how they feel if they trust somebody.
The Action Catalyst
REMASTERED: Body of Work, with Pamela Slim (Careers, Sales, Storytelling, Business)
A lot of other folks will make a decision that is based on all kinds of research and data or, you know, individual and institutional issues. decisions. But I think a huge overriding factor is the kind of relationship and trust that you build.
The Action Catalyst
REMASTERED: Body of Work, with Pamela Slim (Careers, Sales, Storytelling, Business)
And in organizations, I've seen this so much when I used to consult in organizations, they're going through as much change and tumultuousness as the outside market. And it's amazing what can happen if you have a new manager come in or a VP or a a change in business strategy, you have to sell yourself all over again.
The Action Catalyst
REMASTERED: Body of Work, with Pamela Slim (Careers, Sales, Storytelling, Business)
You know, sometimes, sometimes it's the same people when everybody's looking like, wait a minute, you know, our whole go-to market strategy changed. And therefore, you know, does Pam really have what it takes? I know she's been really successful in this market, but you know, how can she really compete in this other kind of market? Does she have the skills to do it?
The Action Catalyst
REMASTERED: Body of Work, with Pamela Slim (Careers, Sales, Storytelling, Business)
If you've been conscious about it, not just the story you're telling, but also relationships that you're building, um, ways that you're weaving in other kinds of activities. You know, I think a lot of folks forget that every single part of your life is really part of your body of work.
The Action Catalyst
REMASTERED: Body of Work, with Pamela Slim (Careers, Sales, Storytelling, Business)
So sometimes significant activities that you do outside, people may not be aware of the fact that you're a huge volunteer. You're a member of your community or you're an amazing parent and you have a child with special needs and you put in lots of extra effort and energy. All those kinds of things are really an important part of the story that you can tell.
The Action Catalyst
REMASTERED: Body of Work, with Pamela Slim (Careers, Sales, Storytelling, Business)
And it's really about solidifying confidence and really helping to go through a transition. in a positive way. I was working on a consulting project and I was laughing with my client.
The Action Catalyst
REMASTERED: Body of Work, with Pamela Slim (Careers, Sales, Storytelling, Business)
We had new folks come in that were hired and even though kind of the senior person in the project was one who I had great trust with, he really wanted to defer to folks who were coming in on the project and make sure that they related to me.
The Action Catalyst
REMASTERED: Body of Work, with Pamela Slim (Careers, Sales, Storytelling, Business)
Well, thank you so much for having me. I am delighted to be here.
The Action Catalyst
REMASTERED: Body of Work, with Pamela Slim (Careers, Sales, Storytelling, Business)
and we were laughing because he's like, oh, I saw how you started to work, how you were sending emails and having conversations with them and introducing yourself in a way so that they really knew who you were, and he was laughing because he knows me, and he knows that that's just part of what you have to do as you're going through a transition. You can't rely on your past performance.
The Action Catalyst
REMASTERED: Body of Work, with Pamela Slim (Careers, Sales, Storytelling, Business)
You can't rely on relationships that you've had because all of those can change, and especially if business strategy changes.
The Action Catalyst
REMASTERED: Body of Work, with Pamela Slim (Careers, Sales, Storytelling, Business)
In the book, you have this great line. You say, the quality of your life and business is directly related to the quality of your stories.
The Action Catalyst
REMASTERED: Body of Work, with Pamela Slim (Careers, Sales, Storytelling, Business)
So you say that the quote unquote world of work is no longer predictable.
The Action Catalyst
REMASTERED: Body of Work, with Pamela Slim (Careers, Sales, Storytelling, Business)
Yeah, I really believe it passionately because being so tuned into, you know, to the workplace and especially folks that might be out of work or looking for new opportunities, it's easy sometimes to look at somebody who gets an opportunity and say, oh, man, you know, that wasn't fair. You know, that person's lucky or they had this background or come from this place and therefore they got the job.
The Action Catalyst
REMASTERED: Body of Work, with Pamela Slim (Careers, Sales, Storytelling, Business)
And what I always know, because I've just watched it for so long and coached so many people around it, is somebody, you who actually got the opportunity, took the time to really research and understand what were the needs of that person who they were wanting to make a sale to, right? Kind of, again, an internal sale for an opportunity.
The Action Catalyst
REMASTERED: Body of Work, with Pamela Slim (Careers, Sales, Storytelling, Business)
And it's funny, it's talk about, you know, when you talk about branding can be a touching point. When you talk about selling, you know, if you start to talk about things like parenting or, you know, getting a spouse, you know,
The Action Catalyst
REMASTERED: Body of Work, with Pamela Slim (Careers, Sales, Storytelling, Business)
Some of the underlying skills of using the good light side of the force skills that we have, right, are about deeply understanding and connecting with somebody, feeling good enough about yourself when you meet that person who you just think is wonderful, who would be a great life partner.
The Action Catalyst
REMASTERED: Body of Work, with Pamela Slim (Careers, Sales, Storytelling, Business)
Absolutely. I know salespeople of all people in the world know this because often sales folks are the ones that are right there, you know, talking to customers and working on a deal for a long time and having it fall through at the last minute because, you know, your key contact gets laid off or redeployed somewhere else.
The Action Catalyst
REMASTERED: Body of Work, with Pamela Slim (Careers, Sales, Storytelling, Business)
You don't really knock yourself, you know, out of the running by saying, oh, my gosh, but, you know, I'm not that good a person and, Why would they ever date me? And I'm not good enough. I'm not smart enough. You know, people don't like me. That's that internal story. Sometimes it becomes a driving narrative for our life.
The Action Catalyst
REMASTERED: Body of Work, with Pamela Slim (Careers, Sales, Storytelling, Business)
And it ends up really leaking out into also how it is that we tell a story about ourselves moving forward. And so. I just want to clarify again, by story, I don't mean making up things to just bamboozle everybody.
The Action Catalyst
REMASTERED: Body of Work, with Pamela Slim (Careers, Sales, Storytelling, Business)
It's actually telling a clear, compelling story that you deeply believe about yourself, but that's based on your reflection about that work in the world that you want to do and based on also about being the kind of person that you want to be in the world. You know, what kind of parent do you want to be? What are the stories that you tell your kids?
The Action Catalyst
REMASTERED: Body of Work, with Pamela Slim (Careers, Sales, Storytelling, Business)
What are the stories that you tell your kids about what work is? I'm always fascinated by people who spend all their time when they get home saying how terrible it is and the office was horrible and the commute was bad. And I'm thinking, man, what kind of a story are your kids going to have about what working means? How excited are they going to be?
The Action Catalyst
REMASTERED: Body of Work, with Pamela Slim (Careers, Sales, Storytelling, Business)
to be joining the world of work if that's what you hear I was blessed that I had a dad who's still at 79 years old as a passionate photographer every time I heard him talk about work it was with excitement for his craft and I am so thankful to him for telling that kind of story about work because it showed me that you can love what you do and so I've always pursued work that really lit me up
The Action Catalyst
REMASTERED: Body of Work, with Pamela Slim (Careers, Sales, Storytelling, Business)
Yeah, I mean, those are powerful questions to think of. That's powerful. How do we become better storytellers?
The Action Catalyst
REMASTERED: Body of Work, with Pamela Slim (Careers, Sales, Storytelling, Business)
I think one thing to do is to read and whatever genre of books that you enjoy, if it's fiction or even nonfiction. Pay attention to what people are actually doing as they're narrating, creating a great story. The ultimate resource for storytelling, I think, is Nancy Duarte's book, Resonate.
The Action Catalyst
REMASTERED: Body of Work, with Pamela Slim (Careers, Sales, Storytelling, Business)
Fantastic book as a resource for really understanding how can you tell a compelling story when you're trying to get somebody to change, which is what you do in a sales environment, right? And Nancy studied all kinds of the great stories. speeches of all time and really noted through extensive research about a certain pattern and a structure to a story that can be very effective and persuasive.
The Action Catalyst
REMASTERED: Body of Work, with Pamela Slim (Careers, Sales, Storytelling, Business)
So I think there's things like that where you can get resources like that. I find the arts are one that also really contribute to you getting excited about a great story. So if you can go to a great play or see a really wonderful movie, You start to pay attention to, you know, how did that grab me and why was that exciting or why did I get scared at that moment, you know?
The Action Catalyst
REMASTERED: Body of Work, with Pamela Slim (Careers, Sales, Storytelling, Business)
And those, I think, can be things that are really useful. Again, from a sales perspective, I think that is a skill that so many folks need to have. And really one of the fundamental underlying skills, I think, of great storytelling is where you really do think about who your audience is.
The Action Catalyst
REMASTERED: Body of Work, with Pamela Slim (Careers, Sales, Storytelling, Business)
And really make sure that you spend a lot of time understanding what is the nature of the organization that you're selling into? What are the personal things that are really driving folks who you're having conversations with? So that when you choose what it is that you want to talk to them about or present to them or give certain examples, that it's very related to what their actual experience is.
The Action Catalyst
REMASTERED: Body of Work, with Pamela Slim (Careers, Sales, Storytelling, Business)
And I've been for about the past 20 years working in the world of business, always on the human side. And as early as the 90s, I was noticing trends as we started to see more waves of layoffs and reorganizations. But I think things really started to pick up steam, especially in 2008, when we all experienced the a huge economic catastrophe that really rallied around the globe.
The Action Catalyst
CLIP: To Switch or Not To Switch
Salespeople are kind of classically known for switching companies. What is your opinion on that? Do you think it's negative to be switching all the time? Yeah, I think there's two things. The first is, for my definition of body of work, it's really as you look at the course of your life, what are all the things that you really want to create, contribute, affect, and impact?
The Action Catalyst
CLIP: To Switch or Not To Switch
Or are you conscious about what it is that you want to create? Are you giving yourself enough time in each role to really be building that which you want to build? And there's always you always have the capacity, I think, to tell a compelling story.
The Action Catalyst
CLIP: To Switch or Not To Switch
But the reality is, you know, in terms of how you might sell yourself to somebody or you might explain your history and how it is that you've moved through many different positions. I think the important thing to remember is that your work really does speak for you.
The Action Catalyst
CLIP: To Switch or Not To Switch
So if you truly have had integrity in your roles, you've done a great job, you've developed really powerful relationships, and you move on, that's the kind of enduring legacy that your work really speaks for. And that can't be spun. That's what other people are going to be talking about, you know, when they talk about you. And
The Action Catalyst
CLIP: To Switch or Not To Switch
In today's job environment, I think that is how people get jobs is based on your reputation of what you've actually built and done. How are you being conscious about that work that you actually want to do in the world? What organizations do you want to support? You know, what problems do you want to solve? And then you do that through your skills and strengths.
The Action Catalyst
CLIP: To Switch or Not To Switch
But yes, the way that you help people understand who you are and what you do is by the story you tell. It is the meta skill of the 21st century, which by the way, has always been the meta skill, right? Storytelling is the way that we all relate to each other. We have since the very early days. And the good thing is that's actually what good salespeople understand, right?
The Action Catalyst
CLIP: To Switch or Not To Switch
That's the one decision that you would make is really what is that body of work that you want to create based on things that are really important to you using your skills and your strengths.
The Action Catalyst
CLIP: To Switch or Not To Switch
But I think there's two parts to the story. There's what is the story you're telling yourself? Are you saying, oh my gosh, You know, my work history sounds really sketchy. I'm desperate. I need to get a job. Oh, my gosh. In which case, it's hard then to create a compelling, authentic story to somebody else. Right. Versus where you say, I, you know, I may not have had a perfect past.
The Action Catalyst
CLIP: To Switch or Not To Switch
Everybody has challenges, you know, in your life and your work. But this is the meaning that I've really gotten from it. And these are the kinds of projects that I've really thought about that I want to contribute to. And here's why my specific skills fit. And so, yes, that is personal branding.
The Action Catalyst
CLIP: To Switch or Not To Switch
I think the thing I want to underline is it's really based on deep integrity with yourself and with the work that you want to do. And then that just has natural positive impacts in terms of the opportunities that open up for you.
The Action Catalyst
CLIP: To Switch or Not To Switch
And so with that as a definition, I don't just mean concrete things like helping to build organizations through sales, which is a hugely important skill set which salespeople have, but it's also in what are the intangible ways in which you affect the world? How are you as a parent, as a community member, as a spouse, you know, what are you really contributing?
The Action Catalyst
CLIP: To Switch or Not To Switch
What's your emotional wake that you leave as you really walk through the world? And is it something that you feel proud of and that you really leave as a legacy? So when you think about it from that perspective, to move around or not move around, to me, it's really addressed by why. And sometimes you can be pursuing what seems to be the next great opportunity. I really was fortunate.
The Action Catalyst
CLIP: To Switch or Not To Switch
I spent about three years with a client who had a sales training business. So I've worked with hundreds and hundreds of salespeople who I think happened to be some of the most interesting, flexible, positive people. I really like it. I love the skill set. I love the fact that the skill set is really flexible and that you do have to get enthusiastic and care about what you're doing.
The Action Catalyst
CLIP: To Switch or Not To Switch
Really infuse yourself in a culture, in a company, in order to be able to really sell effectively. And so it is the kind of skill set of any, I think, that are out there. that can be really effective to be moving in different places. But my question would be, are you just jumping to what seems to be the next great opportunity because of maybe a financial outcome?