Olly Headey
Appearances
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
It worked better from a UI point of view. But then it kind of grew arms and legs. And what happened with that project is that, ultimately, that area then became written in React and it stuck, even though it was much more complicated. It was quite buggy because like all the validation was on the server side.
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
So all the front end validation was being duplicated again, including we had stuff like formatting numbers and stuff that the Rails app would do. And so when this section got built in React, then all of that had to be, people were duplicating number formatting. So it's all a bit of a mess, to be honest. And as far as I know, that is still there. That whole banking area in FreeAgent is React app.
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
Well, inside the kind of mainframe. There's not so much single page. But then, honestly, I... Now, I could be slightly wrong here because it's going back a few years, but then... So everything else kind of stayed the same. And because the React thing took so long, in my opinion, was a bit... It's protracted and didn't really result in any kind of great value...
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
then nothing we kind of made the call like nothing else in react forget about it we're just going to leave it as it is and gradually improve things by which point turbo and stimulus was coming along um and by the time i left then it was like right the future should be in so we'll just stick with the rails convention and we'll do stuff that way um ideally maybe replacing the whole react thing at some point but again it's it's the same problem like well
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
there's lots of other things to do what that kind of works might as well leave it even though you are juggling different um technologies so it's you know we we did through general ignorance we we didn't you know rebuild the entire ui in react i'm quite thankful that we didn't i think that would have probably been a bad idea we did we did have the the mobile apps as um using kind of
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
I don't think we used React Native, but I think we talked about doing that, but we ultimately just went with Native. But yeah, so it's because of the size of FreeAgent, there's a lot of different tech going on. I think we did get rid of jQuery altogether eventually. But certainly even at Basecamp, I think Basecamp still has jQuery in parts. Pretty sure. Could be right. Pretty sure it did.
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
Because these things are quite hard to extract. It's a lot of effort and for pretty much zero user benefit, pretty much. And they kind of work, right? So it's tricky managing things on that scale, I think.
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
yeah i mean great fun i mean to be honest probably quite different in the 90s i have no idea what it's like today i'm not really yeah in there um but but yeah and then you know doing a variety of different jobs uh and ended up being a being a kind of consultant you know going into banks kind of soul destroying that kind of thing and then yeah and then
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
Yeah, but I mean, I guess what's tricky as well is when you have a lot of engineers, you know, dozens and dozens of engineers...
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
get a lot a lot of opinions as to what is the right thing thing to do um and even when you know you're talking about well let's do we'll do stimulus that's how we're going to do these things you know then you're going to people are going to say well great can we use stimulus reflex can we do that because here's a good reason to to use this or you know it's a challenge to kind of
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
try and create standards which you ideally would like because then everything's the same it's a level playing field you all know what you're working on but in reality it's like if someone thinks they can do that there's a benefit to doing that is is it bad is that dangerous are you going to end up in that situation where you're just using an obsolete technology that you have to then replace or actually is it fine it's you're kind of making bets regardless of what you do um
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
And sometimes the stimulus is good, isn't it? But in my experience, which isn't huge, to be fair, I think it's quite opaque in terms of exactly what is the best practice like for an infinite scroll? I don't know. If you Google it, there's loads of ways of doing it. Which way should I do it? And not a contrived example, maybe.
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
That kind of thing where it's kind of, in my opinion, quite vague documentation about how to do stuff. You are kind of left to Googling or ChatGPT and hoping it comes back with stuff. And it's the same in the business. It's like, well, I want to use Stimulus Reflex. Is that bad? I'm just going to include this particular JavaScript stuff and it's going to fit our needs here. Is that bad?
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
Or is that good? I kind of think it's okay, but I'll kind of keep an eye on it Whereas with React, that's very much different paradigms. That's much more complicated, I think. Whereas just JavaScript libraries, yeah.
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
I think my default is always, well, why do we need to change anything? Can we just not? Because changing stuff is just like work and it's going to take longer than anyone says it will. And so can we just not? And there are people out there that still build stuff with jQuery and stuff because it just works. Is that bad? Who's that guy on X who's like,
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
the millionaire hacker guy, the nomad list guy, Levels, Peter Levels. And I think he builds all of his stuff in PHP and jQuery, doesn't he? He can build anything with this stuff. I think if you can resist, but then when you say you're resisting change, then you're kind of like an old dinosaur, aren't you? You don't want to change.
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
But the reality is when you're running a business, you just you do have to kind of focus mainly on customer value. And if it's not going to bring that value or maybe like increase. dead velocity by an order of magnitude or something, then do you really need to? Or is there, if you are going to do it, then how can you do it incrementally? You know, how are you going to do that?
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
And it's like, if you want to go back to know turn everything into stimulus that's great don't do the big stimulus project that's just going to take 18 months um to do it bit by bit you know like we're going to work on this banking area let's just tackle that one while we're while we're in there that that's more of the approach i i would really take i think um
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
we had it's funny because we had i had this accountant um to do my you know to do my books had a limited company um and he used to send a spreadsheet every month and say fill this in you know so okay and so i had to fill in all the bank transactions manually and then all the expenses
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
resist as long as possible until it became glaringly obvious that either everyone's going to walk out uh which is you know not with our cloud stuff you know i don't think people are going to work walk out but i think if we really tried to keep forcing kind of smart os triton down everyone's throat i don't think it would really ended well we're gonna we have to do something there um but from a programming point of view
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
I'm not sure how common that problem is, really. But you do tackle hard ones, like a Ruby upgrade. What's good about things like that is that you know, you get the obsolescence. So you know that if you don't fix stuff by this date, then you're unsupported and you're in dangerous territory at that point.
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
So that's quite nice when you have these actual... So if someone said, right, jQuery is getting turned off, you can't really do that, can you? But if they did, then maybe that would be a good thing to do. But yeah, but to try and simplify it as well, though, because... That's always a challenge to try and keep the stack and everything as simple as you can, which is hard.
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
And it's something that 37signals obviously do really well. But then they have fewer moving parts, I think. And they invent all that stuff anyway, so it's kind of different.
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
Honestly, that's such good advice. I think, yeah, I We maybe didn't heed that. There's always this tension, isn't there? It's a bit like a build versus buy, although it's open source. You're not really buying. You're just kind of borrowing.
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
But yeah, when you come to do a Rails upgrade and that one gem that you use for tagging or whatever it is, there's some gem and it's just like, oh shit, it's unsupported for Rails 6. You think, well... But if you wrote your own, it's probably like a couple of classes and it's not very complicated. You could do that yourself. And that's something, you know, 37signals do so well.
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
Their gem files are pretty small, really, whereas Pretty Short Pre-Edge is pretty large. And it's definitely something I've taken on board a lot. I think that it is good practice to try and minimize as much as possible. I do remember at 37singles when they were starting on, I guess it was the calendar app. And I think David's looking at these genpads and basically, why have we got Redis?
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
And then send it back over and then and then he would do whatever he did and then said, what you owe this much tax, pay it here. So I had no idea about how finance about the finances, how it all worked or anything. And it just felt like a bit of a waste of time. And, you know, so as it turned out, Ed, who is another co-founder of the agent he had,
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
Why is Redis in there? And it ultimately led to kind of the solid cache and solid queue stuff, which is just like, hang on, database is really fast. What are we doing? We don't need Redis. That's just a thing we just don't need. And it's a thing we have to support, which ended up, it's funny, that ended up leading to these gems being built. Like, I'm sure they're fast enough.
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
You know, databases are fast enough now on these new drives we've just bought. We don't need race. And it's almost like I don't know. This is what was in David. It was like that. It was literally that dependency that was so irritating. They will just go and build all this new tech just because that is, you know, first grade, right?
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
Because one less dependency, although have you because you've now got these highly complex gems to maintain, but I don't know. Whereas Redis is pretty reliable, to be honest.
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
and pretty entrenched in the community, then that's always a good sign. I don't think I would hesitate really to use the gem in that case. Unless, as I say, it was so simple that you just think, well, do I really need to do that? Because sometimes they can complicate things and sometimes not.
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
the hard I suppose the harder the problem that you're trying to solve by using that gem then the more likely I would say it's probably better to use a gem at least in the first instance right and and if if for some reason it gets unsupported or causes you I don't know performance problem or something then then maybe maybe do it then but if your goal is to move fast and just get stuff done then you know bring in devise right like most people do that I don't know whereas you know
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
I built a couple of little apps recently and I thought I'm not going to use device I can do that myself and I ended up doing my own auth which for better or worse you know it didn't take that long but at the same time you know it would have been much quicker to to use device but you know I just I don't know I don't know but then I've had the same problem with apps where I've used device
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
And then I've wanted to kind of rip it out because it was too painful to go and adjust that template of some password. I can't even remember the examples, but you know, some sort of, it shouldn't be that hard. And I felt there were certain things that I found hard. I'd rather just do my own kind of confirmation email sometimes, but then,
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
I guess it's also a balance of what time you have available, what your kind of skill level is at some level, I suppose. If you really don't want to get into that, then why bother?
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
But if you're building a product, you know, like Reagent or something that's at 37 Signals, maybe you just kind of, you do want to own that yourself just in case device stops or if it deviates from what you need or if you want to customize it, then maybe it's just a bit too hard That kind of thing.
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
But again, another app I built had Google Auth, which I thought was going to be straightforward, but that's my own naivety showing there. But then I tried OmniAuth, and there were certain things, it was slightly out of date. It was a little bit fiddly. So I think if you're a business and you're well-funded or making money...
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
He had the same accountant and he'd been, you know, he'd started work on this prototype of free agent using Ruby because that was super cool, right? In 2006, that was the real hot tech. And I met Ed and, you know, we kind of got talking, found this connection with our accountant and he was a bit like, well, do you want to kind of help me build it? And I thought, okay. And then quit my job.
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
yeah i don't know but if you're a business you're making you're making money or you're well funded then you know maybe you should build your own if it's not going to be too onerous to do that because then you own that tech and you can support it without question but If you're in the early days or if you don't have that capacity, just use the gem and hope for the best. But these things change.
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
It's like active storage. We used, well, originally at FreeAgent, I think it was Paperclip or something, pretty good. And I think it's, I can't remember, I think, didn't it get, it got support stopped. So then we moved to Shrine.
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
And then I think active storage appeared, but then I think we left it on trying, but then that now it's like, Ooh, you're using this unusual, even though arguably shrine is better. It's like most people don't know it. They'd rather use active storage. Well, I'm glad we didn't build our own. One of those, to be honest, I think managing storage upload would probably have not been a great idea.
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
I'd rather migrate from one to the other at that point.
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
And so, like... As a web framework, what do you mean they're using...
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
I mean, it's a good question, but I suppose, yeah, it depends what the problem is. I mean, for a web app, I would just use Rails. I mean, you could say, well, there's quite a lot of baggage, isn't there? Is there? Yeah, sure, you can write a Sinatra app and a few files. But then a Rails app... you're only really populating a few files.
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
You go to like your roots, maybe you've got a controller, but at least it's pretty easy to find your way around. It's not true. Maybe, maybe not an active record is like baked in and sure. I can pull in active record or I don't know why I would bother doing that. I mean, maybe there's like an overhead and like memory or something. I don't really know.
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
Maybe there's a thing there who knows, but yeah, Personally, I would just use Rails. But yeah, command line apps, we would not use Rails for that. I mean, it depends. At Frasian, one of the... One of the main things it does is PDFs of invoices. You can download a PDF, attach it to an email, all of that.
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
So that's the kind of thing that we wouldn't do in Rails because, well, I think it's not straightforward. So we had a Java thing that generated that. But Rails would call it. So it was the Rails app that was kind of talking just to an API to generate this PDF. So that kind of thing. We wouldn't be fundamentalist and go, it has to be in Ruby, it has to be in Rails.
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
But just when there's a best thing for the job, you would use that if it's not too objectionable. But honestly, Rails, I don't know why they're not talking at conferences that much about it. I mean... I suppose what is there, well, you have Rails World now, right? So that's going to be all about Rails. So maybe the other conferences want a bit less of that.
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
And it is interesting to hear different stories of what people are doing with Ruby that doesn't include Rails. I mean, you know, if you're working on a SaaS app, that's kind of a big part of it. But then, you know, people are doing like data stuff with Ruby, aren't they, these days? I mean, I know Python's like the go-to kind of language for that kind of stuff, but there aren't.
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
And that was that. So that's kind of how it came about. And yeah, 15 years later, kind of. I left because we did an IPO in 2016 on the London Stock Exchange and then and then we actually got acquired by a bank.
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
people trying to do stuff in Ruby, which I think is pretty cool, but I'm not, yeah, I wouldn't be fundamentalist about it, but if I was building a web app, I would just use Rails because it just works, right? It's great.
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
Yeah. I mean, that's, that's kind of, kind of happened. I suppose of the apps that I built, one used Google auth, so that was slightly different. And then, but the, but the, One used email authentication and one would use a password. So they're all different for whatever reason, for because reasons. But no, I would probably do the same. I think, I mean, Rails has baked into it, doesn't it?
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
It has secure password stuff. It's kind of baked into it now, which is great. So it's pretty easy to do that. I suppose things like the forgot password is that boilerplate of stuff. But it's quite small what you really need to do. Kind of validate the email address and forget a password. They're the things that I would... need to do.
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
But yeah, like I say, putting that in a gem is, would you do that? Because you're making assumptions about models and things. I guess you could do that. And that's what Devise has done. So maybe you should just use Devise at that point. But then Devise is quite big. It always feels quite big to me. But yeah, I suppose that's how I do it.
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
um in 2018 and so i kind of stayed there for a little while after that but then yeah left in 2022 so that was the kind of the big startup journey of free agent and rails all the way ruby and rails that was pretty much everything the whole app pretty much not quite but pretty much was it hard to let it go Let it go. Well, I mean, yeah, yes and no. I think yes and no.
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
But then, but also what about when, you know, because usernames and passwords are unpopular perhaps these days. I mean, what I see using various apps around the internet, you know, is, well, 2FA, right? Like, how are you going to do that? And also, are you going to do it with SMS, email, or send, you know, one-time passcodes? And there doesn't always, are you going to go with pass keys?
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
Cause that isn't a new thing now. And it's, I'm not sure I would do that myself. Uh, even 2FA, you know, I don't know if you've done that yourself or not, or maybe, I mean, that's maybe something that rails can, um, We'll get baked into it at some point. Maybe that's the trajectory it's going or pass keys. Maybe that'll come. That might be a good thing.
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
Kind of surprised it hasn't got, Rails doesn't have a device built in, to be honest.
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
It gives you that sense of identity, you know, and so you sort of lose this whole thing. It's like, yeah, I'm the co-founder. Well, you can always say co-founder, can't you? But, you know, you can't really you detach from it then.
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
Yeah. I mean, that's a good question, right? Because, well, I'm not kind of setting up a big SaaS business right now. But if I was, would I use...
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
use rails i mean me personally if i was like a founder founder cto again i probably would mainly because that's like all i know and i'm kind of institutionalized in rails right so there's that but i still don't think it would be a bad choice i think it would be a good choice because um you know as you know you can build pretty much anything you need to with rails certainly good enough and certainly in the kind of
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
B2B SaaS space, of course, like that, which is, you know, but that said, you know, it depends what you're building. If you're, you know, if it's a consumer app, are you going to be able to do what you need to do on the front end with, you know, Rails stimulus? Is that, you know, good enough? Or do you actually need to lean on the community of more JavaScript stuff?
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
whether that's React or Vue or whatever else. I mean, you can still use Rails on the backend, but are you then moving into a different architecture driven because of your needs on the front end? I mean, maybe that would be a different consideration. I think at one level, I honestly don't think it really matters because technology is not usually...
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
The thing that kills businesses, it honestly doesn't usually matter. The main problems with businesses are product market fit. You've built something and no one wants it, or you've marketed it wrong, or you can't get the distribution. That's usually the problem, not tech. Businesses don't usually fail because someone picked Rails or someone picked TypeScript or whatever.
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
but then but then not really because you know i think it for me i felt like we'd almost built everything in it like every feature was kind of done in my mind like um it did everything from like time tracking all the way through to kind of filing your tax returns uh automatically but at that point it's like we kind of you know felt like it was kind of done that's what we set out to do back in the day and you know i thought we'd never get there but we did um
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
That doesn't seem to be the... a pattern. So I don't think it really matters. But what I do think is interesting, so I do kind of talk to a lot of startups, done some kind of like investing and stuff, but, you know, and generally in the startup community, I'm virtually non-use rails. In fact, maybe none that I've spoken to that is.
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
Whereas React on the front end and something on the back end that is typically Node-type script, maybe Python, is the prevalent tech of today, which I find quite fascinating. But these teams move fast. They get stuff done.
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
you know just like we do with rails so you know but it's arguably a bit more is it more complicated it feels more complicated to me but then you know at the same time companies building on cloud tech as well right and they're just leveraging serverless to do a whole manner of cool things um which you know there are legit use cases for doing that kind of stuff
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
But at some level, I don't think it really matters. I think Rails is still a brilliant choice. I would do that. But again, that's because I'm probably institutionalized. But I wouldn't go and learn new tech just so I could build unless it was for a specific advantage. If you were doing some kind of AI stuff and you must use Python, then sure, do that.
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
It's a good question. I was doing some stuff earlier this year that did kind of touch on, it was like, it was to do with image categorization, photographs, trying to kind of categorize photographs. And I did, I mean, I was using APIs to do that, like Microsoft APIs. They didn't support Ruby out of the box. They don't, you know, they have JavaScript, I can't remember, JavaScript, Python, Java,
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
maybe C sharp, maybe, because it was Microsoft, I can't remember. But those are kind of the libraries and the SDKs that they offer. They don't offer Ruby, which is a shame, but there are gems that kind of wrap this stuff up. And so that was quite interesting. But then some of the functionality that, I mean, AI is not my thing really, but I was kind of toying around with this stuff.
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
And Python does have a wealth of these libraries to do a lot of machine learning algorithms, which Ruby doesn't really quite have. I mean, there are people that are creating similar libraries out there for some of this stuff, but it always feels, I don't know, not quite there. From an AI point of view, depending if you're just calling APIs, of course, fine.
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
You can do that from anything, but if you're then trying to do some stuff yourself using the cut, then it doesn't quite feel like the right choice, but maybe that's changing. I it's only superficial knowledge that I really have of that. Um, but I can't think of really off the top of my head, other, other examples.
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
I mean, there was this PDF thing that, I mean, that was a very good example where you just couldn't. we're going to do it with prawn or something, whereas we were using Java libraries that actually did proper PDF rendering. But there were other ways we could have tackled that, but we chose the the different tech path, as opposed to finding a Ruby way to do that.
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
I'm sure there are lots of other examples, but I think where Rails does seem to shine is when it's much more of a, well, people call them crud apps, don't they? It's kind of a bit demeaning. It's like the agent is a crud app. Yeah, I guess. It's like, you know, you take some input and you save it to a database.
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
The last thing we did was this massive migration of the infrastructure to the cloud. None of this cool move out of the cloud. We'd run the whole thing on servers, our own servers, for years. Then in 2020, we moved to the cloud, AWS. That was a big thing. For us, it was a good thing. Once that was done, I was like, yeah, I think I'm I think I'm kind of done here. But I do miss it.
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
But at the same time, like, come on, there's like half a million lines of code doing lots of stuff. But I guess it's a crud app, you could say. Same with, you know, Basecamp as well. Crud app. And what isn't? Notion's a crud app, isn't it? I don't know. So that's, who knows? So a crud app, I'm a bit like, hang on. That's everything at some level, isn't it?
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
Part of maybe chat GPT or something, but we're not building that.
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
Yeah, and I think that's entirely the right approach. But yeah, good to hear there's, you know, more startups that I mean, a lot of people building like indie hacks, which is kind of like another kind of release derogatory terms, but actually kind of, that's where everything starts in a way. You know, using rails, it's just, you know, a lot that I've seen. So
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
you know hopefully we'll kind of see i think this is where like the rails foundation does come into play you know there's a lot of money there um and they're doing some cool stuff there's obviously the conferences um and the guides looking a lot better now but for me it's like the outreach and and how how can the rails foundation just um get people at an earlier stage and
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
in their career, I guess, and even boot camps and the rest of it to start using Rails, because boot camps did do Rails back in the day, and now they have tended to move, from what I understand, to more of a JavaScript ecosystem, which feels, I don't know, I mean, to put yourself in the place of someone on a boot camp who doesn't know anything about programming and all of a sudden you're having to do React, it sounds...
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
overwhelming to me whereas at least with Ruby it's like kind of here's an ERB template and it's just basically HTML that feels a bit less but maybe when people go through these boot camps and do great so it could just be my own biases here that are showing but I think that's going to be an important part of Rails future success is to get in the ground again and make people realise that how
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
great it is and i think you know that's part of the job of the rails foundation but
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
get everyone else shouting about it as well really um so hopefully i'm i'm hopeful that this is uh this is already happening and we'll get better as well as people because there was a talk wasn't there was it um irina from uh evil martians and she did a talk about uh startups on rails or something i didn't see the talk i think i've seen the slides and you know she talks about
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
some really interesting companies and companies that were built in other techs that are moving back to like a Rails. We were all microservices and now we're going to come back to a Rails monolith because frankly, it was just chaos. And now this is far simpler and we didn't really need all of that complexity and distribution.
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
We just needed an app with a big database and that goes a long way usually. So hopefully we'll start to see this change.
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
And like you say, you know, teaching JavaScript is super important. You have to kind of know JavaScript, but not necessarily at a hugely complex level. You know, like you say, little sprinkles of the JavaScript is often more than enough to accomplish what you need to do. And certainly at the boot camp level. But on the other hand, it's this chicken and egg problem.
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
I still use it as well because I do my own kind of consulting thing now and again and I'm still used to it. I'm in there quite often. It's good.
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
They're trying to get people jobs. That's what they're there for. And if all the jobs are REACT, then it's their duty to then go and teach people what's going to get them most likely to get the job so they can have their placement stats nice and high. So it's a tricky one. You need the jobs.
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
otherwise the boot camps might say well this movie stuff is a bit weird isn't it we're not there's no jobs in that so why would we bother teaching it and then you're on a bit of a downward spiral so um yeah tricky
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
Yeah, I think so. It's pretty entrenched, I would say now, I think, pretty much.
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
We didn't touch on the old Rails assets, the original article that you got in touch about, I suppose.
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
Yeah, of course. So it was one of those things where I was running an app, and I'm loathe to pay anything more than I need to, the absolute minimum amount for a server to run this thing on, right? And it's using active storage to store uploaded content, right?
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
But the particular app that I was building involved customers uploading photos in bulk, so dragging potentially hundreds, small hundreds of photographs into a drop zone thing.
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
and uploading them all and then viewing these things in the app so you can view you know three four hundred photos in a gallery um of course it's like infinite infinite scrolls on but this is quite a lot of requests on the app when your images you know are in active storage uh and you know with my tight-fisted ways i did you know that's quite a lot of traffic in my app just on one page it's a lot of requests you know that i'm having to serve they're like these these images should really
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
be on a CDN, why are they even, you know, the request should go directly to the CDN. I don't want these requests hitting my app. And that, you know, so that's where, that was where I started thinking, well, how do I solve this? How hard can it be? And, well, it's not that hard, but it's quite convoluted. Like, so, you know, But there were two related problems, which are slightly tangential.
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
One being Rails assets, you know, the CSS and the JavaScript and whatnot. The other being the active storage images and solving those, getting those onto CDM, two different problems that the assets approach. Well, and I was using CloudFront because I was on AWS and all the images are on in an S3 bucket. So I thought, well, CloudFront's the obvious thing here. That must be pretty straightforward.
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
And I presume it's similar for other CDNs. I was just using CloudFront and had these free credits anyway, so might as well. And configuring that, and this wasn't really documented in the Rails guides particularly, kind of, but not really. And so getting the assets on there was one challenge.
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
which involves kind of trying to understand exactly, you know, how to configure CloudFront and the bucket and cause and this kind of stuff. And then the other was how to do the active storage assets, particularly as well. And this is in a different use case, but similar with action text. Some were just active storage assets, you know, has one attached.
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
So just a file attached to a multiple files attached to a model. The other being an action text, you know, images that are inside an action text block. So indirectly, active storage on my model. And trying to solve that was kind of an interesting one as well, because you have to set up
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
particular routing, direct routes to do this, and involved environment variables and understanding how to actually configure this CloudFront CDN as well, which I have to say is still part mystery. I figured out how to make it work, but why specifically certain things I had to do when recommended configurations didn't actually work?
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
is still a mystery and and i i wasn't that interested enough to actually go and understand exactly why but i did document it in this article like here's what i did partly for my own benefit because like if i have to do this again i'm literally never going to be able to understand what to do because it you know it took me a while to figure it out because not that information not that much information was
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
was out there, bits and pieces on the Rails forums and various blogs. So I thought I'd try and encapsulate it. And it does seem to work because I have had a few people get in touch saying, thank you. Thank you for writing that because I was banging my head against a brick wall trying to figure out how to make it work.
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
So another thing, I suppose, that maybe that Rails could make a little bit easier. Oh, look, it is quite complicated, isn't it? All of this... Direct uploads, if you look at the code in Rails for how that works, it's quite hardcore in my opinion. That's where it came from and how I approach it.
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
Yeah. It is a good question. I mean, I guess for a start, I am a big fan of running your own hardware in in many ways because you know that that's what we started doing it was kind of the only option back in 2006 2007 i mean you know we just rented a server from rackspace and that was kind of that and you know and we did use there was all these cloud 82 sort of existed but um
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
I mean... The correct thing I should have done, because it was AWS, was to write that as code. Here's a Terraform script that will set up your... I didn't do that. It's probably slightly beyond me, or beyond my patience, I should probably say. I have this patience problem where I'm just impatient. The correct thing would be to study the Terraform and beautifully present this.
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
I haven't got time for this. The crazy thing is, of course I have time. I just choose not to. But yeah, I think that could help because then you're expressing in code exactly what you're doing on the cloud front and on the S3 bucket in the case of active storage. But on the Rails side, I mean, there's not that much to do. I mean... With the assets, there's virtually nothing to do.
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
You just have to set the asset host. All the configuration is in AWS. Whereas with the active storage, you have to create this direct route. And then with that action text, you have to then go and... find the blob partial, you know, and go and change the route in the blob partial and things like that. But once you've done that, it's kind of straightforward. But it's, yeah, fiddly.
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
But I think it's mainly fiddly because of the AWS. And if you could automate all that stuff yourself. But I suppose a good test would be to try it on another CDN, of which I've not done. You know, would it work on DigitalOcean or
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
or some other, you know, people have the other image CDNs, image-specific CDNs, and they, especially on the larger side of, if your app is, you know, a big commercial app, you might not use CloudFront at all. You might go for one of these proper image CDNs. I have no idea whether that would be easier or more difficult, but presumably from a Rails point of view, kind of the same.
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
You just have to get this route to point to the right thing. So it is...
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
But yeah, the article does... That one is pretty straightforward to do that. You just have to... Once you've set up your CloudFront... instance and set the kind of core stuff then you just set the asset host in your Rails app and it just works it literally just works and you know none of those requests are now hitting your app every time you know
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
you deploy the cache it gets updated so um yeah it's it it's great well to my knowledge that like that's a big improvement um hasn't had any issues that i'm that i'm aware of you know uh i mean cloudfront's pretty straightforward at some level. It works really well. Obviously, you don't have to be an AWS for that, but I guess it helps if you're all in there.
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
It'd be interesting to know, though, if you're... I don't know. The thing is, this is another thing, isn't it? Where do people deploy their Rails apps? What's the go-to thing? Because, again, nothing's perfect, but Kamal looks great to me, but then it's like, hang on, I've got a database... what do I do? You know, and it's like, you know, do I have to pay CrunchyData now?
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
And well, if I do that, then what if my, you know, my app is on the Hetzner and, But do I now have to build, do I run that in a Docker container? For me, that isn't covered, whereas actually that's the most important thing. I don't really care about my web servers. It's my database that I care about.
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
And Heroku was good, but then they're really tight-fisted with their resources, which I don't like. So I don't know. That's another whole conversation, I guess, maybe for another time.
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
early days, you know, it wasn't much tooling around that. And there were things like flight hosts and these other cloud bright box, a few of these things that we did play around with just for staging servers playing around, but the actual app ran on it, run its own hardware. And we did at one point Rackspace had a cloud and because we were Rackspace, we were like, let's use that.
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
uh the definitive kind of i think kamala's going i really like it it's going in the right direction but it doesn't quite get me what i want whereas like digital ocean uh is it the app one the docker-based one that they have is really good idea but in practice hasn't in my opinion hasn't been that it's not great a bit slow but conceptually it's great because you can get managed databases there i can just kind of deploy my thing via docker so that that
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
that seems great but yeah again there's quite fragmented where do you host people have different opinions on that personally i just i've just been using like aws because i had loads of credits uh and hatchbox because it's just literally i don't even think about it i just click a button and it works which i think is great and it supports chris oliver's brilliant uh hatchbox so happy to hand him in money you know so that kind of interesting but kamal yes if hatchbox had docker
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
But yeah, I was just driven by, you know, if you go to AWS and you kind of go, yeah, here's my startup, you can get like two years of all these credits, great. I mean, it's a complete bait and switch thing from them, but actually pretty good. So you can kind of, you know, I think I got like a thousand bucks, kind of goes a long way, you know, it's great. But yeah, ultimately would I do that?
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
Maybe not, maybe render. Yeah, looks pretty cool.
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
This would be great. And we found it really flaky. It was pretty unreliable for us. And we lost a bit of trust. And then, you know, one of the guys that we had on the team was just great at building servers and stuff, networking and whatnot. So we just decided, well, let's just do it. And we just bought some hardware and racked it up and did all that. And that's how it ran for...
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
Sure. Well, I'm going to big up Friendly RB, which takes place in September 18th, 19th, I think, in Bucharest, Romania. I'm speaking there, but there's a whole bunch of much better speakers than me, which you should go and check out. I believe there's still some tickets left. I have a discount, but you have to, I can't, I don't think I can announce it. You can find me.
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
And if you want a discount, I can give you a discount for that. So I big up that. What else? I had this kind of, I've been on Twitter for like, well, since back in the day. But yeah, I kind of, I've been checking out Blue Sky lately, which has passed me by a bit, but I kind of really like it. So I should probably be on Mastodon tonight, don't you think?
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
That kind of passed me by, but Big Up Blue Sky, go and check that out. I think it's quite interesting what they're doing. But I was going to say, I don't know if this is going to go out after the weekend, probably. So it might be too late for people at the Edinburgh Festival, but I saw this show the other day called Sawdust Symphony, which was one of the most incredible things.
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
I've seen some crazy stuff at the Edinburgh Fringe, but this was on another level. The way they pitch it is carpentry meets circus, carpentry And it's like three German guys for an hour on the stage doing things with wood and the whole stage, including lathes and glue. It was honestly, it sounds ridiculous, but it's absolutely incredible. So you can probably see some videos of it online.
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
Sawdust Symphony. Honestly, I've never seen anything like it in all my years. And I have a lot of years under my belt these days. So that would be mine.
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
Yeah. I would say on Twitter, but not anymore. I go to a website, heady.net, and that has my links. I'm on Blue Sky and Threads, kind of, trying to say hello. Instagram...
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
well what would that be about nine years um but i suppose one of the big drivers was the tech we were using um was kind of niche we were using towards the end uh smart os which you may or may not have heard of i i don't know not many people have heard of it so which is basically like uh ultimately it's solaris but it's uh
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
uh or just email me i'm just ollie at hey.com uh so yeah that's how to find me but hidi.net is my kind of home i suppose on the internet with my blog and stuff like that awesome well thanks for coming this has been great a lot of fun thanks for having me yeah we'll wrap it here till next time max out
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
an alumos um and we were using triton to do um containerization and all of this but it wasn't docker it wasn't linux it was it was kind of niche worked really well but actually The ops team, we struggled to hire people to do it for that reason, and also didn't necessarily want to do it as well, most people. So it was a little bit troublesome.
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
And obviously the cloud had come a long way, which we were already using. We already were using S3, like all the receipts, everything that you can upload to free agents, all in S3. And that was always the case, because you don't want to be getting into object storage yourself, really. And we'd already, we were starting to do some data science stuff in AWS.
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
And so, you know, a lot of that stuff, it kind of made sense to us. Well, let's just think about moving the app over how, you know,
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
how hard can that be and there's lots of advantages and because we've been bought by a bank they they were um they were kind of big on on the cloud as well and they also had quite a lot of leverage with aws in terms of like costs and stuff so we could kind of piggyback on some of that so all of that coming together uh really helped um and yeah it was It was a good move for us, I think.
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
I think you've done it really well. For a start, am I famous? I don't think so. But they're the two main things, really. I mean, free agent. you know, consumed 15 years of my life. So, you know, that's pretty much most things. Before that, I was a software developer, you know, nothing out of the ordinary. You know, it started in the 90s.
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
I mean, cost-wise, very hard to compare. I mean, maybe it's more expensive. I mean, it's apples and oranges, really, when you're trying to compare these costs.
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
But, you know, the ops team getting into kind of the infrastructure automation, infrastructure as code, which we already did, but we were using Popit and other technologies that, you know, kind of moved over to Terraform and all of this, which was much more People wanted to work with this stuff, right? It was kind of like reasonably new hot tech that people wanted to do.
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
And so, yeah, it was actually a pretty good move, I think. But I do kind of miss the power that you get from your own hardware. It's got to be said. Some of these databases on like Aurora and you get these kind of, I don't even know what they're called, you know, the XXLs or whatever.
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
crazy prices really to be honest but you know as long as you can afford it and it's you know it fits within your budget and what you want you're willing to pay in terms of you know your margins then it's fine but if you're trying to squeeze you know squeeze the margins improve things then sure but we were optimizing really for a big engineering team we had 100 plus people
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
not a very big ops team, and we only had about five people doing all of that, which was about half the size of 37signals. So yeah, I think that answers your question. Bit of a ramble.
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
um yeah i mean i hadn't i didn't intend to do that because i knew i was leaving free agent um and at the time there were a couple of guys that had worked at free agent um that had gone there they'd gone they joined in like the summer of that year 21. um and you know absolutely in touch with these guys really great great programmers um you know fantastic people um
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
And at the time, they were looking for a director of engineering. And I think one of these guys said, we should talk to Ollie. He's leaving Frasier. Maybe he'd be interested. And so it was kind of like a recommendation that happened.
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
you know i got the i got a call from david and said do you want to chat about this and you know one one thing led to another and i was like this sounds pretty cool and and um because quite a few people from free agent when i when i then joined i joined in march 22 um by that point they'd hired about i think there was five people that were programmers and free agents.
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
It felt a bit like getting the gang back together again. I thought this would be quite cool. I can go and work with these guys who are amazing and get to work with 37 Singles. That sounds brilliant.
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
I suppose it does look like that, doesn't it? But yeah, I think, well, my involvement in the cloud exit at 37signals was pretty minimal. I mean, to be honest, I wasn't involved technically really in many things there. It was very much more of a management leadership role. So... Unfortunately, I didn't get stuck in.
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
I used to do computer games originally when they came on CDs and had sprites, that kind of game. You built them? Yeah, that was my first job. I was just a programmer writing C, C++, and making characters move on the screen. So that was kind of interesting, although quite hard work, I have to say. If you just want a 9 to 5, I wouldn't recommend video games.
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
Well, I'd love to claim that, but let's dive into what the reality under the hood is, shall we? So, I mean, front end, right? Like, back in 2007, the noughts, it was all, you know... prototype JS, that kind of thing, right?
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
That's how it was. That's when I got started, was prototype.
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
Yeah, we didn't have jQuery, but until we... I suppose, fortunately, in some way, we just didn't really do that much JavaScript. I think the only places we really had it were populating combo boxes, that kind of thing. When you change one, the next one populates. A few things like that. So we kind of avoided it just because, well, I wasn't really very good at JavaScript.
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
I don't think I am very good at JavaScript even now, to be honest, because I just try to avoid it as much as I can. And then jQuery, I guess, came along and we used some of that for a while. And I think part of the thing was that free agent's scope was really broad. So when it came to dev, there were so many features that we wanted to do.
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
And it was like everything, it was like payroll and, you know, bank, you know, using bank feeds like Yodlee we had to do back in the day. There was this huge scope of stuff. So like faffing around and rewriting UIs. was not really a useful business thing to do. So we just kind of didn't do it. We just left it.
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
Now, except that one of the most kind of interactive parts of the app is the banking area where you have all your bank transactions and you kind of click and you can explain them and categorize them. Now that probably 20, trying to think 13 or something like that. I think someone had started playing around with, with a JavaScript framework.
Ruby Rogues
Cloud Migration, Server Costs, and CDN Challenges - RUBY 650
I can't remember off the top of my head, actually, what that was called. It was one of the early ones. And then, which I think we actually put live, perhaps, but then someone during one of our hack days decided to try and build it in React. the banking section, which kind of works. And they got it working quite quickly in a few days, prototyping this thing. And it was better.