Nish Kumar

Well, because it's very personal. It's within your home. Your wife is Ukrainian. Exactly.

Well, because it's very personal. It's within your home. Your wife is Ukrainian. Exactly.

Yeah.

Yeah.

it is a really compelling and interesting story of somebody who almost programmed their brain in a certain way and then was able to deprogram their brain in a certain way. There's just always this idea that you essentially move towards the political right as you get older.

it is a really compelling and interesting story of somebody who almost programmed their brain in a certain way and then was able to deprogram their brain in a certain way. There's just always this idea that you essentially move towards the political right as you get older.

And so I think all of that stuff, like you aging into left-wing politics, is interesting and compelling because it's an unusual story, I think. But also, I'm just interested in what was appealing to you

And so I think all of that stuff, like you aging into left-wing politics, is interesting and compelling because it's an unusual story, I think. But also, I'm just interested in what was appealing to you

So the government is already putting its rhetoric on that last point into action. So last week, Rachel Reeves forced out the chairman of the UK's competition watchdog, the Competition and Markets Authority.

So the government is already putting its rhetoric on that last point into action. So last week, Rachel Reeves forced out the chairman of the UK's competition watchdog, the Competition and Markets Authority.

But it's like... Apart from the conspiracy theorists that are flat earthers. Yeah, yeah. Galileo's their worst nightmare. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, fuck, Galileo. That's that level of defilement, yeah.

But it's like... Apart from the conspiracy theorists that are flat earthers. Yeah, yeah. Galileo's their worst nightmare. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, fuck, Galileo. That's that level of defilement, yeah.

So interesting about that is you've really identified something that's incredibly important here. A lot of these things are not new ideas. They're just repackaging. I mean, this idea of preservation of Western culture, it's sort of, it contains within it the sort of old seeds of white supremacy and Western supremacy.

So interesting about that is you've really identified something that's incredibly important here. A lot of these things are not new ideas. They're just repackaging. I mean, this idea of preservation of Western culture, it's sort of, it contains within it the sort of old seeds of white supremacy and Western supremacy.

You know, and those ideas that drove the British colonialism project, because there was an idea that these were inferior cultures that needed essentially saving from their own savagery. That's very true. And we're seeing it all the time at the moment in terms of the way that Elon Musk talks about the grooming gangs in this country, which he has no idea about.

You know, and those ideas that drove the British colonialism project, because there was an idea that these were inferior cultures that needed essentially saving from their own savagery. That's very true. And we're seeing it all the time at the moment in terms of the way that Elon Musk talks about the grooming gangs in this country, which he has no idea about.

You know, he has no specific knowledge about the cases that he's talking about. But you can still see the seeds of all of it. But it's just been repackaged. You know, someone like Tommy Robinson has realized that he can't do what the National Front did in the 70s and 80s when our parents came here and said, we want to get rid of the package. He can't do that anymore.

You know, he has no specific knowledge about the cases that he's talking about. But you can still see the seeds of all of it. But it's just been repackaged. You know, someone like Tommy Robinson has realized that he can't do what the National Front did in the 70s and 80s when our parents came here and said, we want to get rid of the package. He can't do that anymore.

In the video, you talk about reading Chab's Owen Jones book about the kind of cultural demonization of the British working class and that being a real eye-opening moment for you, right?

In the video, you talk about reading Chab's Owen Jones book about the kind of cultural demonization of the British working class and that being a real eye-opening moment for you, right?

infantile isn't it yeah yeah you know it's like a children's story there are good people and there are bad people and the good people always do good and the bad people always do bad whereas actually it's a much more sophisticated thing to say that's what makes a good film like if you watch a good film it's when like the bad guy has a reason why he's bad yeah yeah yeah

infantile isn't it yeah yeah you know it's like a children's story there are good people and there are bad people and the good people always do good and the bad people always do bad whereas actually it's a much more sophisticated thing to say that's what makes a good film like if you watch a good film it's when like the bad guy has a reason why he's bad yeah yeah yeah

Yeah, that sort of leads you into kind of reading backwards and going in and doing research around the post-war consensus and the collapse of the post-war consensus as engineered by kind of Thatcher and Reagan in the UK and the US. And then we're now in this sort of crisis point that again is kind of engineered by a moment of economic collapse, you know,

Yeah, that sort of leads you into kind of reading backwards and going in and doing research around the post-war consensus and the collapse of the post-war consensus as engineered by kind of Thatcher and Reagan in the UK and the US. And then we're now in this sort of crisis point that again is kind of engineered by a moment of economic collapse, you know,

In her speech, Reeves paid particular attention to our economic links with the US following a reportedly positive conversation between Keir Starmer and Donald Trump.

In her speech, Reeves paid particular attention to our economic links with the US following a reportedly positive conversation between Keir Starmer and Donald Trump.

In 2008, the financial system essentially collapses and plunges us into a kind of black hole that we still are yet to emerge from. You know, this is why I'm interested in this idea of what line of thought is countercultural or anti-establishment. Because for people our age, you defined yourself as being

In 2008, the financial system essentially collapses and plunges us into a kind of black hole that we still are yet to emerge from. You know, this is why I'm interested in this idea of what line of thought is countercultural or anti-establishment. Because for people our age, you defined yourself as being

Within my lifetime, we certainly moved in a more progressive direction.

Within my lifetime, we certainly moved in a more progressive direction.

But when it comes to slightly less mad trading partners, when asked on Sunday whether the UK would consider joining the Pan-Euro Mediterranean Convention, which is a tariff-free zone with Europe, Reeves didn't rule it out, saying that she would consider anything that might attract growth so long as it didn't cross any of her Brexit red lines.

But when it comes to slightly less mad trading partners, when asked on Sunday whether the UK would consider joining the Pan-Euro Mediterranean Convention, which is a tariff-free zone with Europe, Reeves didn't rule it out, saying that she would consider anything that might attract growth so long as it didn't cross any of her Brexit red lines.

I'm fascinated by this idea that all of the dating experts, especially targeting straight cis men, are all men. And I'm like, I would definitely take some advice from a woman. Just even if you look at it objectively, strip everything away for a second. If your goal is to impress a woman, surely your first port of call is to go to a woman and say, how do we impress? Yeah, yeah.

I'm fascinated by this idea that all of the dating experts, especially targeting straight cis men, are all men. And I'm like, I would definitely take some advice from a woman. Just even if you look at it objectively, strip everything away for a second. If your goal is to impress a woman, surely your first port of call is to go to a woman and say, how do we impress? Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, that's right.

Yeah, that's right.

So then how can progressive people or the left or whatever nebulous term we want to put on it, how do...

So then how can progressive people or the left or whatever nebulous term we want to put on it, how do...

as a group we speak to young men because like oh i'll be honest with you there's just this lazy idea of people my age that like we all thought that a lot of the sort of movements around 2016 were a kind of death rattle of conservatism really as the millennial generation ages into positions of leadership the population would move left on social issues and economic issues

as a group we speak to young men because like oh i'll be honest with you there's just this lazy idea of people my age that like we all thought that a lot of the sort of movements around 2016 were a kind of death rattle of conservatism really as the millennial generation ages into positions of leadership the population would move left on social issues and economic issues

But obviously there's a severe wrinkle in this if the generation that comes behind us is starting to turn towards social conservatism and economic conservatism.

But obviously there's a severe wrinkle in this if the generation that comes behind us is starting to turn towards social conservatism and economic conservatism.

Oh yeah, just think about the NHS. You know, like in 1945, in like a country that was just, had been bombed to shit. Yeah.

Oh yeah, just think about the NHS. You know, like in 1945, in like a country that was just, had been bombed to shit. Yeah.

an action of a government basically I mean it's obviously a lot more complicated than that but effectively in one stroke just turned around to an entire country and said you all have free healthcare that's the single most significant transformational step for the average British person that's incredible and I think that should be inspiring to people and like the left has wins under its belt like if you look at history like the biggest continuous growth period of economics was under Keynesianism

an action of a government basically I mean it's obviously a lot more complicated than that but effectively in one stroke just turned around to an entire country and said you all have free healthcare that's the single most significant transformational step for the average British person that's incredible and I think that should be inspiring to people and like the left has wins under its belt like if you look at history like the biggest continuous growth period of economics was under Keynesianism

We're just talking about cocaine.

We're just talking about cocaine.

We're just talking about everything went bad when loads of people started taking cocaine.

We're just talking about everything went bad when loads of people started taking cocaine.

But the means now is the next point, right? And it is the most important point. Because for years, when we were growing up, we existed under these kind of press barons like Rupert Murdoch, Robert Maxwell, basically everybody that is an inspiration for Logan Roy and Succession.

But the means now is the next point, right? And it is the most important point. Because for years, when we were growing up, we existed under these kind of press barons like Rupert Murdoch, Robert Maxwell, basically everybody that is an inspiration for Logan Roy and Succession.

And then when the internet, the sort of advent of the internet, there's a part of you that thinks, well, this is incredible. This is like, this is going to democratize information and democratize media.

And then when the internet, the sort of advent of the internet, there's a part of you that thinks, well, this is incredible. This is like, this is going to democratize information and democratize media.

And then movements start to spring up that are oxygenated by the internet and by social media, like, you know, Occupy Wall Street, the kind of anti-capitalist demonstrations, the Black Lives Matter movement, the Me Too movement. You start to see lots of these progressive movements that are oxygenated by social media. But now we're in a space where it feels like social media is

And then movements start to spring up that are oxygenated by the internet and by social media, like, you know, Occupy Wall Street, the kind of anti-capitalist demonstrations, the Black Lives Matter movement, the Me Too movement. You start to see lots of these progressive movements that are oxygenated by social media. But now we're in a space where it feels like social media is

and that all the sort of unregulated forms of the new media have been harnessed by the same forces that controlled the old media. And so my question for you is, how do we harness the information dissemination systems to spread a progressive message when a guy like Elon Musk can look at Twitter and say, that's an interesting way of spreading information, I buy it?

and that all the sort of unregulated forms of the new media have been harnessed by the same forces that controlled the old media. And so my question for you is, how do we harness the information dissemination systems to spread a progressive message when a guy like Elon Musk can look at Twitter and say, that's an interesting way of spreading information, I buy it?

If you fix income inequality and you make a better... But there's so many thinkers that have pushed both of those things at the same time. Martin Luther King was a sort of avowed critique of capitalism. Fred Hampton was building a rainbow coalition that existed under the umbrella of economic socialism. The union of those two things has always been incredibly important.

If you fix income inequality and you make a better... But there's so many thinkers that have pushed both of those things at the same time. Martin Luther King was a sort of avowed critique of capitalism. Fred Hampton was building a rainbow coalition that existed under the umbrella of economic socialism. The union of those two things has always been incredibly important.

Well, look, we thought it was prime time to get inside the heads of these people. We're joined by a very special guest who found himself sucked into the alt-right wormhole that came out the other side. We'll be speaking with YouTuber Jimmy the Giant.

Well, look, we thought it was prime time to get inside the heads of these people. We're joined by a very special guest who found himself sucked into the alt-right wormhole that came out the other side. We'll be speaking with YouTuber Jimmy the Giant.

become more liberated but it doesn't change the fact that you have unique problems to you now and you need sort of solidarity to kind of help that the more you pull at that thread the more it starts to say you're like so what you're saying is a rising tide lifts all boats like it starts that kind of thinking I absolutely agree with you that like

become more liberated but it doesn't change the fact that you have unique problems to you now and you need sort of solidarity to kind of help that the more you pull at that thread the more it starts to say you're like so what you're saying is a rising tide lifts all boats like it starts that kind of thinking I absolutely agree with you that like

economic clusters at the core of all of these problems. But I think it's important to also make space because it is about establishing solidarity and it's about understanding that like marginalized people are all on the same side.

economic clusters at the core of all of these problems. But I think it's important to also make space because it is about establishing solidarity and it's about understanding that like marginalized people are all on the same side.

A lot of us had hopes that, you know, as you moved away from And essentially, like these kind of media moguls owning the ways in which information was disseminated. You know, if you look at the newspapers when I was growing up, like it was, you know, it's basically like the Guardian and the Independent and the mirror at points.

A lot of us had hopes that, you know, as you moved away from And essentially, like these kind of media moguls owning the ways in which information was disseminated. You know, if you look at the newspapers when I was growing up, like it was, you know, it's basically like the Guardian and the Independent and the mirror at points.

versus the Sun, the Mail, the Express, the Telegraph, the Times, you know, in terms of like, that were owned by newspaper moguls who had financial and vested interests in not disrupting the economic status quo. So then you get the internet and you go, this is great, this is amazing. It's just going to be the value of your ideas.

versus the Sun, the Mail, the Express, the Telegraph, the Times, you know, in terms of like, that were owned by newspaper moguls who had financial and vested interests in not disrupting the economic status quo. So then you get the internet and you go, this is great, this is amazing. It's just going to be the value of your ideas.

And the reality is that we all have to fess up to this idea that conservatives were much smarter and savvier in how they used the internet and how they used YouTube and how they used social media. So do you still believe in the power and value of being on YouTube, being on Twitter? And is it really important that progressives get into those spaces?

And the reality is that we all have to fess up to this idea that conservatives were much smarter and savvier in how they used the internet and how they used YouTube and how they used social media. So do you still believe in the power and value of being on YouTube, being on Twitter? And is it really important that progressives get into those spaces?

One of the people who pulled me out of it was Destiny because he was literally... This is a YouTuber who went on and argued with conservative YouTubers.

One of the people who pulled me out of it was Destiny because he was literally... This is a YouTuber who went on and argued with conservative YouTubers.

Listen, you're right. And I imagine people who listen to this podcast would be concerned about things like whether we can breathe air or whether buildings are safe to live in. You know, cuck shit. And I can sort of appreciate that people of our sort of political persuasion might be a bit antsy about this.

Listen, you're right. And I imagine people who listen to this podcast would be concerned about things like whether we can breathe air or whether buildings are safe to live in. You know, cuck shit. And I can sort of appreciate that people of our sort of political persuasion might be a bit antsy about this.

If we're trying to arrest this slide in faith and democracy amongst young people, you've got to be practical, be assertive, and also be hopeful.

If we're trying to arrest this slide in faith and democracy amongst young people, you've got to be practical, be assertive, and also be hopeful.

I like it. Jimmy the Giant, thank you so much for joining us on Pod Save the UK. Listeners, do check out his channel on YouTube. What's your latest video on?

I like it. Jimmy the Giant, thank you so much for joining us on Pod Save the UK. Listeners, do check out his channel on YouTube. What's your latest video on?

So obviously, there's a progressive concern around defanging regulators in the name of growth and sacrificing everything in terms of growth. But there is real concern from economists that the plans don't fully add up. And it seems to have attracted criticism from everyone.

So obviously, there's a progressive concern around defanging regulators in the name of growth and sacrificing everything in terms of growth. But there is real concern from economists that the plans don't fully add up. And it seems to have attracted criticism from everyone.

Don't forget to follow at Pod Save the UK on Instagram, TikTok and Twitter. And if you want more of us, make sure you subscribe to our YouTube channel. And while you're there, don't forget to check out Jimmy the Giant.

Don't forget to follow at Pod Save the UK on Instagram, TikTok and Twitter. And if you want more of us, make sure you subscribe to our YouTube channel. And while you're there, don't forget to check out Jimmy the Giant.

Thanks to senior producer James Tyndale and assistant producer John Rogers.

Thanks to senior producer James Tyndale and assistant producer John Rogers.

Thanks to our engineer, Jeet Vasani.

Thanks to our engineer, Jeet Vasani.

Yeah, so DeepSeek is a Chinese AI company whose kind of emergence into the AI space caused a massive, massive drop in the share price of various American tech companies because... DeepSeek appears to be able to offer a service similar to things like OpenAI or ChatGPT, but at a fraction of the cost. And so it's done some real damage to the American stock market.

Yeah, so DeepSeek is a Chinese AI company whose kind of emergence into the AI space caused a massive, massive drop in the share price of various American tech companies because... DeepSeek appears to be able to offer a service similar to things like OpenAI or ChatGPT, but at a fraction of the cost. And so it's done some real damage to the American stock market.

Again, it sort of exposes the fragility of basing your entire economic strategy around AI and growth. But again, I just think it's really, really important to stress this point. Continuing to talk about economic growth,

Again, it sort of exposes the fragility of basing your entire economic strategy around AI and growth. But again, I just think it's really, really important to stress this point. Continuing to talk about economic growth,

is fine as long as you find a way of joining up wider economic growth with policies that are actually going to improve the lives of people living in the country on a day-to-day basis. And I'm much more interested to hear from the Labour Party and hear from Rachel Reeves and Keir Starmer how this economic growth actually joins up with benefiting people in the long term.

is fine as long as you find a way of joining up wider economic growth with policies that are actually going to improve the lives of people living in the country on a day-to-day basis. And I'm much more interested to hear from the Labour Party and hear from Rachel Reeves and Keir Starmer how this economic growth actually joins up with benefiting people in the long term.

I think the loose idea is that economic growth provides jobs for people and also benefits puts money into the via taxes into the government that can then be redistributed and spent. But, you know, I think how does that money get funneled into the economy and how does that money get funneled into the pockets of ordinary people living in Britain?

I think the loose idea is that economic growth provides jobs for people and also benefits puts money into the via taxes into the government that can then be redistributed and spent. But, you know, I think how does that money get funneled into the economy and how does that money get funneled into the pockets of ordinary people living in Britain?

That's the thing that the Labour Party is struggling to articulate at the moment.

That's the thing that the Labour Party is struggling to articulate at the moment.

Fuck the best place. I would like to get on a train. I would like to see a doctor.

Fuck the best place. I would like to get on a train. I would like to see a doctor.

I would settle for we want to make Britain an acceptable place to live again.

I would settle for we want to make Britain an acceptable place to live again.

Just like anything. So amidst all of this sort of bulldozing for growth and cutting of red tape, there's one hugely contentious decision. The government are giving political support to add a third runway to Heathrow Airport.

Just like anything. So amidst all of this sort of bulldozing for growth and cutting of red tape, there's one hugely contentious decision. The government are giving political support to add a third runway to Heathrow Airport.

And I'm Nish Kumar. Today, it seems our young people have lost faith in democracy. A poll this week found that 52% of them would favour an authoritarian government. It's scary stuff.

And I'm Nish Kumar. Today, it seems our young people have lost faith in democracy. A poll this week found that 52% of them would favour an authoritarian government. It's scary stuff.

Just again, like with a lot of Labour policies at the moment, it just seems to be a lot of people contradicting themselves within the same sentence. Look, we should say that the co-founder of Extinction Rebellion and a former guest on the show, Claire Farrell, has had a bee in her bonnet about this, so much so that she's actually dropped us a video message.

Just again, like with a lot of Labour policies at the moment, it just seems to be a lot of people contradicting themselves within the same sentence. Look, we should say that the co-founder of Extinction Rebellion and a former guest on the show, Claire Farrell, has had a bee in her bonnet about this, so much so that she's actually dropped us a video message.

We're always thrilled to hear from Claire. Here she is.

We're always thrilled to hear from Claire. Here she is.

This is a huge concern. And Claire isn't alone here. Rick Parfit, who's the WWF's climate policy specialist, said to boost growth, Rachel Reeve should put pounds back in people's pockets by insulating homes, decarbonising power and investing in public transport. The UK's net zero economy grew by 9% in 2023 compared to 0.1% for the economy overall.

This is a huge concern. And Claire isn't alone here. Rick Parfit, who's the WWF's climate policy specialist, said to boost growth, Rachel Reeve should put pounds back in people's pockets by insulating homes, decarbonising power and investing in public transport. The UK's net zero economy grew by 9% in 2023 compared to 0.1% for the economy overall.

Spending over £50 billion on airport expansions that will take decades to build is a non-starter. They would send carbon emissions skywards, leave growth stuck on the runway and suck money out of the UK.

Spending over £50 billion on airport expansions that will take decades to build is a non-starter. They would send carbon emissions skywards, leave growth stuck on the runway and suck money out of the UK.

Reeves isn't being shy about the fact that she's prioritising economic concerns over environmental ones, telling the World Economic Forum at Davos that growth, not net zero, is the government's number one mission.

Reeves isn't being shy about the fact that she's prioritising economic concerns over environmental ones, telling the World Economic Forum at Davos that growth, not net zero, is the government's number one mission.

That's the Chancellor, Rachel Reeves, laying out her latest plans for cutting down on government spending and kickstarting growth. So how are they going to do it? In an op-ed in The Times on Tuesday, Keir Starmer wrote, we'll cut the weeds of regulation and let growth bloom, which is very poetic. But what does it mean?

That's the Chancellor, Rachel Reeves, laying out her latest plans for cutting down on government spending and kickstarting growth. So how are they going to do it? In an op-ed in The Times on Tuesday, Keir Starmer wrote, we'll cut the weeds of regulation and let growth bloom, which is very poetic. But what does it mean?

Also, Keir Starmer voted against the expansion of the airport in 2020.

Also, Keir Starmer voted against the expansion of the airport in 2020.

But look, as we've laid out here, the political messaging from the government clearly leaves a lot to be desired and is leaving a lot of us feeling pretty grumpy. After the break, we're going to find out how this can be taken advantage of with someone who's gone through the alt-right wormhole and come out the other side. We'll be speaking to YouTuber Jimmy the Giant.

But look, as we've laid out here, the political messaging from the government clearly leaves a lot to be desired and is leaving a lot of us feeling pretty grumpy. After the break, we're going to find out how this can be taken advantage of with someone who's gone through the alt-right wormhole and come out the other side. We'll be speaking to YouTuber Jimmy the Giant.

Now, as we mentioned at the top of the show, earlier this week came the news that young people are, to put it bluntly, fucked off with the status quo. Channel 4 poll of 3,000 Gen Zers, that's 13 to 27 year olds, found that over half would prefer an authoritarian leader to a democratically elected one, which is absolutely wild.

Now, as we mentioned at the top of the show, earlier this week came the news that young people are, to put it bluntly, fucked off with the status quo. Channel 4 poll of 3,000 Gen Zers, that's 13 to 27 year olds, found that over half would prefer an authoritarian leader to a democratically elected one, which is absolutely wild.

The study also found that influencers like Andrew Tate and Jordan Peterson are trusted by 42% of young men. 45% of young men also said, we have gone so far in promoting women's equality that we are discriminating against men. Well, a similar proportion agreed, when it comes to giving women equal rights, things have gone far enough.

The study also found that influencers like Andrew Tate and Jordan Peterson are trusted by 42% of young men. 45% of young men also said, we have gone so far in promoting women's equality that we are discriminating against men. Well, a similar proportion agreed, when it comes to giving women equal rights, things have gone far enough.

Where's Generation Alpha then? What happened to Alpha?

Where's Generation Alpha then? What happened to Alpha?

Are they? They're under 13. Oh, so there's another generation...

Are they? They're under 13. Oh, so there's another generation...

Okay, right. Okay, so that makes sense. Right, okay. Well, either way, it's bad. Yeah, that's me.

Okay, right. Okay, so that makes sense. Right, okay. Well, either way, it's bad. Yeah, that's me.

Reeves has announced subsequently that she plans to streamline environmental obligations, calling the example of the HS2 BAT tunnel, that cost £100 million, an example of regulation going wrong. They're going to limit legal challenges and the number of people who can veto projects and particularly infrastructure projects and streamline consultation that would otherwise drown builders.

Reeves has announced subsequently that she plans to streamline environmental obligations, calling the example of the HS2 BAT tunnel, that cost £100 million, an example of regulation going wrong. They're going to limit legal challenges and the number of people who can veto projects and particularly infrastructure projects and streamline consultation that would otherwise drown builders.

Yes. Yeah, yeah. You can say whatever you want. It's on the internet. You know the rules of the internet. Unregulated media. Yeah, very unregulated. You know, you're more experienced at broadcasting on the internet than any of us because you started out as like a sort of parkour, extreme sports YouTuber. You've really been involved in the business of doing stuff on YouTube.

Yes. Yeah, yeah. You can say whatever you want. It's on the internet. You know the rules of the internet. Unregulated media. Yeah, very unregulated. You know, you're more experienced at broadcasting on the internet than any of us because you started out as like a sort of parkour, extreme sports YouTuber. You've really been involved in the business of doing stuff on YouTube.

I am 30. Yeah, so I'm sort of, I'm nine years older than you. And for me, YouTube was always like, when people talk about early YouTube, I'm like, oh yeah, the Natalie Portman rap that the Lonely Island did on Saturday Night Live. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, true.

I am 30. Yeah, so I'm sort of, I'm nine years older than you. And for me, YouTube was always like, when people talk about early YouTube, I'm like, oh yeah, the Natalie Portman rap that the Lonely Island did on Saturday Night Live. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, true.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. For the elder millennials, YouTube is like... Charlie bit my finger. Yeah, Charlie bit my finger. Exactly. It's like a much more, like, innocent and probably like apolitical place. But I mean, so the video... Oh, how it changed. Yeah, I know. The video that you referred to, which is, it's just such an interesting, like, long form video essay, right? If I can make it sound...

Yeah, yeah, yeah. For the elder millennials, YouTube is like... Charlie bit my finger. Yeah, Charlie bit my finger. Exactly. It's like a much more, like, innocent and probably like apolitical place. But I mean, so the video... Oh, how it changed. Yeah, I know. The video that you referred to, which is, it's just such an interesting, like, long form video essay, right? If I can make it sound...

incredibly boring because it's about you talking about you know as somebody who was making stuff making content in the YouTube space it's almost your kind of I don't know if de-radicalization is the right word but certainly it's like your sort of arc of going from somebody who was watching

incredibly boring because it's about you talking about you know as somebody who was making stuff making content in the YouTube space it's almost your kind of I don't know if de-radicalization is the right word but certainly it's like your sort of arc of going from somebody who was watching

sort of videos that exist outside of the left right political binary but exist in a kind of conspiratorial space they're like almost like apolitical conspiracy theory videos that then so then sort of travelling down through kind of Jordan Peterson into a kind of alt-right headspace and then sort of travelling back I think you sort of date it as pretty much post-2016 right?

sort of videos that exist outside of the left right political binary but exist in a kind of conspiratorial space they're like almost like apolitical conspiracy theory videos that then so then sort of travelling down through kind of Jordan Peterson into a kind of alt-right headspace and then sort of travelling back I think you sort of date it as pretty much post-2016 right?

But don't worry, there's promises of sunshine and rainbows ahead. I'm Nish Kumar.

But don't worry, there's promises of sunshine and rainbows ahead. I'm Nish Kumar.

Then it was a quid pro quo. It wasn't just that he loves the Labour Party.

Then it was a quid pro quo. It wasn't just that he loves the Labour Party.

That's what he said.

That's what he said.

He keeps saying all he wants to do is, you know, deliver a Labour government to power. And that's why he keeps on giving them... I don't fully see how this plays into Keir Starmer having different glasses. That doesn't fully... I mean, he has to be able to read.

He keeps saying all he wants to do is, you know, deliver a Labour government to power. And that's why he keeps on giving them... I don't fully see how this plays into Keir Starmer having different glasses. That doesn't fully... I mean, he has to be able to read.

And you love blue light.

And you love blue light.

Zoe's one of the few people that's pro blue light.

Zoe's one of the few people that's pro blue light.

So he's promising everything with the kitchen sink there, which is at least a nice change from you will all have to consume each other's flesh as things get steadily worse in this country, which is sort of in the previous line. What did you make of it, Zoe? Was the tone of the conference in general in line with Starmer's speech a little bit more hopeful?

So he's promising everything with the kitchen sink there, which is at least a nice change from you will all have to consume each other's flesh as things get steadily worse in this country, which is sort of in the previous line. What did you make of it, Zoe? Was the tone of the conference in general in line with Starmer's speech a little bit more hopeful?

This is how you engage a millennial audience. Mario Kart references. This is something we can all understand.

This is how you engage a millennial audience. Mario Kart references. This is something we can all understand.

Now, one of the consistent lines trotted out by the government throughout the Garm drama is that our politics relies on donations. Well, that might be true right now, but should it? After the break, we're going to find out.

Now, one of the consistent lines trotted out by the government throughout the Garm drama is that our politics relies on donations. Well, that might be true right now, but should it? After the break, we're going to find out.

Pleasure. Is it odd to be someone who's summoned to discuss corruption?

Pleasure. Is it odd to be someone who's summoned to discuss corruption?

Have you been surprised by the nature of the first couple of weeks of office and the scandal around these donations or the clothing and free tickets acceptance?

Have you been surprised by the nature of the first couple of weeks of office and the scandal around these donations or the clothing and free tickets acceptance?

Not everybody thinks this stinks. Here's ex-footballer Gary Neville defending the Prime Minister in this clip from ITV.

Not everybody thinks this stinks. Here's ex-footballer Gary Neville defending the Prime Minister in this clip from ITV.

Yeah, change is not always positive.

Yeah, change is not always positive.

And also in the book, you point out that that has real-world consequences for the government because the Moody's, the credit ratings agency, that's actually part of why they've downgraded Britain's credit rating or a factor in it, which obviously makes government borrowing harder.

And also in the book, you point out that that has real-world consequences for the government because the Moody's, the credit ratings agency, that's actually part of why they've downgraded Britain's credit rating or a factor in it, which obviously makes government borrowing harder.

So the book is titled Good Chaps, which comes from this good chaps theory of government, recalling a time where the people around the country were considered to be people who did the right thing instinctively without the need for explicit rules. And

So the book is titled Good Chaps, which comes from this good chaps theory of government, recalling a time where the people around the country were considered to be people who did the right thing instinctively without the need for explicit rules. And

We're now sort of... It particularly highlights a kind of 21st century problem, but particularly post-2010, where the lack of an explicit need for rules is being tested to its kind of breaking point. Can you pinpoint a moment where things start to go wrong?

We're now sort of... It particularly highlights a kind of 21st century problem, but particularly post-2010, where the lack of an explicit need for rules is being tested to its kind of breaking point. Can you pinpoint a moment where things start to go wrong?

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, that didn't always prove to be the case for a couple of pretty high-profile people.

I mean, that didn't always prove to be the case for a couple of pretty high-profile people.

We've got a stacked show for you today. Later, we're taking a second look at Starmer's Garm drama and finding out how money infected our politics with a very special guest. But first, we're joined by the wonderful Zoe Grunwald to get you up to speed on what happened at this week's Labour Party conference. Hello, Zoe.

We've got a stacked show for you today. Later, we're taking a second look at Starmer's Garm drama and finding out how money infected our politics with a very special guest. But first, we're joined by the wonderful Zoe Grunwald to get you up to speed on what happened at this week's Labour Party conference. Hello, Zoe.

So it's not necessarily his donation specifically and what quid pro quo he might be getting.

So it's not necessarily his donation specifically and what quid pro quo he might be getting.

And they're the most vulnerable group.

And they're the most vulnerable group.

COVID runs riot.

COVID runs riot.

So we talked about Frank Hester already, for people who don't remember the It emerged that he said in 2019 that looking at Diane Abbott, I quote, makes you want to hate all black women and that she should be shot. He gave them over £10 million in the past.

So we talked about Frank Hester already, for people who don't remember the It emerged that he said in 2019 that looking at Diane Abbott, I quote, makes you want to hate all black women and that she should be shot. He gave them over £10 million in the past.

Yeah, that's right. So he's added, he's given them a further £5 million just before the general election. As far as I know, they haven't returned any of that money.

Yeah, that's right. So he's added, he's given them a further £5 million just before the general election. As far as I know, they haven't returned any of that money.

It also should be noted that Labour has accepted donations from mega donors. Nothing in the region of that.

It also should be noted that Labour has accepted donations from mega donors. Nothing in the region of that.

And then, so there's also this, the largest ever donation of £4 million came from a Cayman Islands registered hedge fund, Quadrature, which holds interest in fossil fuels, private health firms, arms manufacturers and asset managers. And donations like this have to be declared, obviously, but they aren't necessarily declared immediately.

And then, so there's also this, the largest ever donation of £4 million came from a Cayman Islands registered hedge fund, Quadrature, which holds interest in fossil fuels, private health firms, arms manufacturers and asset managers. And donations like this have to be declared, obviously, but they aren't necessarily declared immediately.

So in this case, it was received on the 28th of May this year, but was only declared by Labour two weeks ago. I mean, is it too cynical to suggest that's a deliberate?

So in this case, it was received on the 28th of May this year, but was only declared by Labour two weeks ago. I mean, is it too cynical to suggest that's a deliberate?

It's amazing how even in an era of 24-hour news, it's still dropping something at 7pm on a Friday.

It's amazing how even in an era of 24-hour news, it's still dropping something at 7pm on a Friday.

So, Simon, something that government ministers have been repeating over the last week is that our politics relies on donations. That phrase keeps recurring. How true is this?

So, Simon, something that government ministers have been repeating over the last week is that our politics relies on donations. That phrase keeps recurring. How true is this?

Well, one of the things we've been talking about the last couple of weeks is unpopular policies that you like to get across. And those have ranged from the serious, which is, you know, reforming the capital gains tax system and council tax, to the frivolous, which is Coco forcing people who own dogs to have a license to own the dogs.

Well, one of the things we've been talking about the last couple of weeks is unpopular policies that you like to get across. And those have ranged from the serious, which is, you know, reforming the capital gains tax system and council tax, to the frivolous, which is Coco forcing people who own dogs to have a license to own the dogs.

I think you've seen Coco's unpopular policy and raised it to a level. Yeah, yeah, hold my drink. Simon is now, you're next. The sequel to Good Chaps are going to be Bad Dogs.

I think you've seen Coco's unpopular policy and raised it to a level. Yeah, yeah, hold my drink. Simon is now, you're next. The sequel to Good Chaps are going to be Bad Dogs.

So you'll go after political corruption, but not dog owners.

So you'll go after political corruption, but not dog owners.

I mean, in a way, this is sort of part of the concluding chapter of the book. Like this, in some ways, could be the most unpopular policy that we've discussed.

I mean, in a way, this is sort of part of the concluding chapter of the book. Like this, in some ways, could be the most unpopular policy that we've discussed.

We've paid sort of roughly around 25 pence per registered voter towards political parties, but taking it up to two pounds from every citizen, creating this 130 million pound pot of money, which on the surface we say is sort of, you know, seems completely unpopular. But if you were to make the case that, this could end political donations. Couldn't it actually be an incredibly popular policy?

We've paid sort of roughly around 25 pence per registered voter towards political parties, but taking it up to two pounds from every citizen, creating this 130 million pound pot of money, which on the surface we say is sort of, you know, seems completely unpopular. But if you were to make the case that, this could end political donations. Couldn't it actually be an incredibly popular policy?

I'm just saying, were it framed in the right way?

I'm just saying, were it framed in the right way?

Is there a country that we can look to as a model for remedying these kind of problems? Is there an example that you can think of around the world where they are getting it right, or maybe they've changed things in a way that's pushed it in the right direction?

Is there a country that we can look to as a model for remedying these kind of problems? Is there an example that you can think of around the world where they are getting it right, or maybe they've changed things in a way that's pushed it in the right direction?

Is another potentially unpopular idea... making sure that MPs get paid more. I mean, I can see how difficult that would be to make as a case. But what we also want to do is, and I mean, part of the thing the book highlights as well is, you know, the good chaps principle of government was based on this idea that a lot of the people, a lot of these good chaps were themselves independently wealthy.

Is another potentially unpopular idea... making sure that MPs get paid more. I mean, I can see how difficult that would be to make as a case. But what we also want to do is, and I mean, part of the thing the book highlights as well is, you know, the good chaps principle of government was based on this idea that a lot of the people, a lot of these good chaps were themselves independently wealthy.

And it wasn't necessarily, there wasn't a salary that they were necessarily relying on in ministerial terms. In terms of getting the best calibre of politicians and also ensuring that, you know, we, you know, we encourage as many people from as wide a social base as possible to go into politics. And then once they're in the job, they're not reliant on second jobs and second salaries.

And it wasn't necessarily, there wasn't a salary that they were necessarily relying on in ministerial terms. In terms of getting the best calibre of politicians and also ensuring that, you know, we, you know, we encourage as many people from as wide a social base as possible to go into politics. And then once they're in the job, they're not reliant on second jobs and second salaries.

Is there an argument for paying MPs more?

Is there an argument for paying MPs more?

Chicken feed, I think, is the phrase that was reported he used about the salary.

Chicken feed, I think, is the phrase that was reported he used about the salary.

Yeah. And it creates that disconnect, isn't it? Because suddenly, if you live and work in a place where people are earning four times your salary, it can, you know... Or more.

Yeah. And it creates that disconnect, isn't it? Because suddenly, if you live and work in a place where people are earning four times your salary, it can, you know... Or more.

Before you go, we have to ask Simon, I know you can't be bought, but if you could be, would you take Taylor Swift or Arsenal tickets?

Before you go, we have to ask Simon, I know you can't be bought, but if you could be, would you take Taylor Swift or Arsenal tickets?

He cannot be bought, folks. The book is fantastic. It's available now. Simon, thank you so much for joining us on Podside for the UK.

He cannot be bought, folks. The book is fantastic. It's available now. Simon, thank you so much for joining us on Podside for the UK.

Such an interesting conversation.

Such an interesting conversation.

What would be your dream backhander? What's your dream event backhander?

What would be your dream backhander? What's your dream event backhander?

I don't know what Bowdoin is, but I enjoyed the rhythm of the joke. I can't be bought. I cannot be bought. Unless someone gives me the numbered white album from the first pressing, I can be bought very easily. We are absolutely sure that you will all have a lot of interesting reactions to what Simon Cooper said.

I don't know what Bowdoin is, but I enjoyed the rhythm of the joke. I can't be bought. I cannot be bought. Unless someone gives me the numbered white album from the first pressing, I can be bought very easily. We are absolutely sure that you will all have a lot of interesting reactions to what Simon Cooper said.

So if you have any thoughts about political donations, and especially about this idea of £2 per taxpayer as a way of raising the funds to finance political parties, as a way of cutting off the influence of donations, how do you feel about that? Is it an absurd thing to ask people when we're already going through a cost of living crisis? It's a fascinating question.

So if you have any thoughts about political donations, and especially about this idea of £2 per taxpayer as a way of raising the funds to finance political parties, as a way of cutting off the influence of donations, how do you feel about that? Is it an absurd thing to ask people when we're already going through a cost of living crisis? It's a fascinating question.

Also, we would like to know the things you could be bribed with. Yeah. So if you have any of those, please email us in at psuk at producedlistening.co.uk.

Also, we would like to know the things you could be bribed with. Yeah. So if you have any of those, please email us in at psuk at producedlistening.co.uk.

No, not these guys. These, everyone's got a price. Even these, no offence, do-gooders.

No, not these guys. These, everyone's got a price. Even these, no offence, do-gooders.

Even this pack of fair trade do-gooders. And that's it. Thanks for listening to Pod Save the UK. And we want to hear your thoughts. Email us at psuk at reducedlistening.co.uk.

Even this pack of fair trade do-gooders. And that's it. Thanks for listening to Pod Save the UK. And we want to hear your thoughts. Email us at psuk at reducedlistening.co.uk.

Pod Save the UK is a reduced listing production for Crooked Media.

Pod Save the UK is a reduced listing production for Crooked Media.

Our theme is by Vasilis Fotopoulos.

Our theme is by Vasilis Fotopoulos.

The executive producers are Anushka Sharma, Dan Jackson and Madeleine Herringer, with additional support from Ari Schwartz.

The executive producers are Anushka Sharma, Dan Jackson and Madeleine Herringer, with additional support from Ari Schwartz.

Fresh from conference?

Fresh from conference?

Unfresh from conference. A bit tired from conference. How was it?

Unfresh from conference. A bit tired from conference. How was it?

I was pretty disgusted by what he said, particularly about what he said in conjunction with the riots.

I was pretty disgusted by what he said, particularly about what he said in conjunction with the riots.

As a person of color who lives in this country, was born in this country, and who has had their relationship with this country very strongly tested by the events of the last decade and especially, to be honest, by the events of the last couple of months, I feel he's missed a moment of national leadership as the Prime Minister and particularly as a Labour Prime Minister.

As a person of color who lives in this country, was born in this country, and who has had their relationship with this country very strongly tested by the events of the last decade and especially, to be honest, by the events of the last couple of months, I feel he's missed a moment of national leadership as the Prime Minister and particularly as a Labour Prime Minister.

I think the attempt to smash the link between what happened this summer and the ongoing ratcheting up of rhetoric against migrants, refugees and immigrant communities in this country was a missed opportunity that I think... he has not fully calculated the political fallout of that. And it's a fallout that will affect ordinary people of colour in the street.

I think the attempt to smash the link between what happened this summer and the ongoing ratcheting up of rhetoric against migrants, refugees and immigrant communities in this country was a missed opportunity that I think... he has not fully calculated the political fallout of that. And it's a fallout that will affect ordinary people of colour in the street.

Because if you don't make the link between the ratcheting up of hostility and what happened in the summer, it is effectively an act of gaslighting by a white politician. to minority communities in this country. I was personally profoundly disgusted by those remarks.

Because if you don't make the link between the ratcheting up of hostility and what happened in the summer, it is effectively an act of gaslighting by a white politician. to minority communities in this country. I was personally profoundly disgusted by those remarks.

And, you know, again, we can talk about bits of the speech that I thought certainly pointed towards a more humane and, frankly, pragmatic asylum policy. But that specific section... it made me personally very, very angry and upset.

And, you know, again, we can talk about bits of the speech that I thought certainly pointed towards a more humane and, frankly, pragmatic asylum policy. But that specific section... it made me personally very, very angry and upset.

It's very fine people on both sides. It's on the continuum of very fine people on both sides.

It's very fine people on both sides. It's on the continuum of very fine people on both sides.

You're absolutely at the core of it saying these people had a point. And you're saying that, you know, if you're saying that these people who smashed up businesses and targeted mosques, that there isn't a relationship between them ratcheting up, you're fucking lying to me. You're literally looking me in the face and telling me that two plus two is five.

You're absolutely at the core of it saying these people had a point. And you're saying that, you know, if you're saying that these people who smashed up businesses and targeted mosques, that there isn't a relationship between them ratcheting up, you're fucking lying to me. You're literally looking me in the face and telling me that two plus two is five.

Yeah, I mean, it's worth giving a listen to last week's episode with Zoe Gardner. We talked a bit about Selma cosying up to George Maloney and seeing what direction this immigration policy is going to take and how it's going to be shaped. And one of the other things Starmer was keen to emphasise was a crackdown on benefit fraud.

Yeah, I mean, it's worth giving a listen to last week's episode with Zoe Gardner. We talked a bit about Selma cosying up to George Maloney and seeing what direction this immigration policy is going to take and how it's going to be shaped. And one of the other things Starmer was keen to emphasise was a crackdown on benefit fraud.

It can be braver. They won an election by a landslide.

It can be braver. They won an election by a landslide.

There was a protester during the speech who was referring to the dead children of Gaza and Keir Starmer sort of dismissed him with a slightly glib put down, suggesting that he had had a conference pass for the 2019 Labour conference. Elsewhere in the speech, Starmer did say that he would be going to the UN to reaffirm his calls for a ceasefire in the region.

There was a protester during the speech who was referring to the dead children of Gaza and Keir Starmer sort of dismissed him with a slightly glib put down, suggesting that he had had a conference pass for the 2019 Labour conference. Elsewhere in the speech, Starmer did say that he would be going to the UN to reaffirm his calls for a ceasefire in the region.

Again, I think that kind of glib tone, given the seriousness of that subject matter, was absolutely not appropriate. And again... if your whole thing is I'm a boring, pencil-pushing civil servant, you can't... Flashes of that kind of glibness fundamentally undermine your message as a serious, diligent man, especially given the severity of the subject that the protester was trying to engage him on.

Again, I think that kind of glib tone, given the seriousness of that subject matter, was absolutely not appropriate. And again... if your whole thing is I'm a boring, pencil-pushing civil servant, you can't... Flashes of that kind of glibness fundamentally undermine your message as a serious, diligent man, especially given the severity of the subject that the protester was trying to engage him on.

The protest of the interrupted speech was abdicating an end to arms sales to Israel, particularly significant given that last week Israel sent thousands of explosive pages to members of the militant group Hezbollah that injured 3,000 people. This week has launched a series of airstrikes into Lebanon. Keir Starmer has been telling UK citizens that now is the time to leave.

The protest of the interrupted speech was abdicating an end to arms sales to Israel, particularly significant given that last week Israel sent thousands of explosive pages to members of the militant group Hezbollah that injured 3,000 people. This week has launched a series of airstrikes into Lebanon. Keir Starmer has been telling UK citizens that now is the time to leave.

There's the start, as we record on Wednesday, of a potential evacuation operation for UK citizens in the region. Over on our sister pod, Pod Save the World, hosts Tommy Vito and Ben Rhodes deep dive into the attack and discuss Kamala Harris's leadership style on national security and foreign policy. So listen to this week's episode of Pod Save the World wherever you get your podcasts.

There's the start, as we record on Wednesday, of a potential evacuation operation for UK citizens in the region. Over on our sister pod, Pod Save the World, hosts Tommy Vito and Ben Rhodes deep dive into the attack and discuss Kamala Harris's leadership style on national security and foreign policy. So listen to this week's episode of Pod Save the World wherever you get your podcasts.

Now, despite trying to drown out the noise of Starmer's Garm drama, for anyone who didn't hear last week's episode, is what Coco has decided to call the government's first... It's what Coco suggested, OK?

Now, despite trying to drown out the noise of Starmer's Garm drama, for anyone who didn't hear last week's episode, is what Coco has decided to call the government's first... It's what Coco suggested, OK?

They sort of continued to get caught up in it. Zoe, what do you think of this strategy of essentially going, come on... Bridget Philipson said it was hard to turn down. Hard to turn down is a direct quote. Tickets to Taylor Swift.

They sort of continued to get caught up in it. Zoe, what do you think of this strategy of essentially going, come on... Bridget Philipson said it was hard to turn down. Hard to turn down is a direct quote. Tickets to Taylor Swift.

You sounded like Ray Winston.

You sounded like Ray Winston.

I can tell from the content of what you're saying you're doing a Marlon Brando impression, but the tone is pure by Winston.

I can tell from the content of what you're saying you're doing a Marlon Brando impression, but the tone is pure by Winston.

Now you sound like Tom Waits.

Now you sound like Tom Waits.

Rachel Reeves also defended her own donations also for clothes from, and again, a direct quote, a friend who wanted to help. Is this wise, Zoe? As an external observer, it does seem, again, if your whole position is we are serious people delivering on public service and we are not like the other guys, we're in public service because we want to serve the public,

Rachel Reeves also defended her own donations also for clothes from, and again, a direct quote, a friend who wanted to help. Is this wise, Zoe? As an external observer, it does seem, again, if your whole position is we are serious people delivering on public service and we are not like the other guys, we're in public service because we want to serve the public,

Is it a wise position to then go, but Taylor Swift, pretty good.

Is it a wise position to then go, but Taylor Swift, pretty good.

That is the conversation I'm having and I'm being invited to increasingly few parties as a consequence.

That is the conversation I'm having and I'm being invited to increasingly few parties as a consequence.

Before you go, we've been asking all the MPs that we've been interviewing since the election. You're obviously in an interesting position because you're, you know, you're an experienced MP, but you're also coming into this parliament for the first time as an independent. It's a different experience. So I guess the question that we're going to ask you is the question we ask everyone.

Before you go, we've been asking all the MPs that we've been interviewing since the election. You're obviously in an interesting position because you're, you know, you're an experienced MP, but you're also coming into this parliament for the first time as an independent. It's a different experience. So I guess the question that we're going to ask you is the question we ask everyone.

Are you having any fun? Are you enjoying yourself?

Are you having any fun? Are you enjoying yourself?

Now, after the break, we'll be speaking to Tommy Vito, co-host of our sister podcast, Pod Save the World, about the upcoming US elections, what they mean for the international stage, and frankly asking just how fucked we might be.

Now, after the break, we'll be speaking to Tommy Vito, co-host of our sister podcast, Pod Save the World, about the upcoming US elections, what they mean for the international stage, and frankly asking just how fucked we might be.

This is obviously the NHS's Boaty McBoatface moment. Now, again, I suspect most of you will be familiar with this. If there are any international listeners or viewers that don't remember this, there was a public vote on naming a new boat and the winner was Boaty McBoatface because the British public cannot be trusted to not play the fool. So look, I think there's definitely an argument

This is obviously the NHS's Boaty McBoatface moment. Now, again, I suspect most of you will be familiar with this. If there are any international listeners or viewers that don't remember this, there was a public vote on naming a new boat and the winner was Boaty McBoatface because the British public cannot be trusted to not play the fool. So look, I think there's definitely an argument

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, this is a sort of, this is a sideline issue, but just on the specific issue of Netanyahu, why is the Democratic Party so concerned to offer support to someone who so openly has no respect for it as a political organisation?

I mean, this is a sort of, this is a sideline issue, but just on the specific issue of Netanyahu, why is the Democratic Party so concerned to offer support to someone who so openly has no respect for it as a political organisation?

Then despite all of this official neutrality, there were news reports just this week that Labour sent 100 staffers over to the US. to help the Democrats canvas in swing states. Now, these are like political groups affiliated to the Labour Party. The Labour Party itself is not directly, I believe, sent over staffers.

Then despite all of this official neutrality, there were news reports just this week that Labour sent 100 staffers over to the US. to help the Democrats canvas in swing states. Now, these are like political groups affiliated to the Labour Party. The Labour Party itself is not directly, I believe, sent over staffers.

Republicans have expressed their outrage at the plans, and Elon Musk took to his own website, Twitter, to accuse Labour of illegal election interference. If there's one thing Elon Musk does know, it's election interference, really, based on his plan to, I think, bribe individual Republican voters. Correct. So, I mean... Is this election interference?

Republicans have expressed their outrage at the plans, and Elon Musk took to his own website, Twitter, to accuse Labour of illegal election interference. If there's one thing Elon Musk does know, it's election interference, really, based on his plan to, I think, bribe individual Republican voters. Correct. So, I mean... Is this election interference?

to be made that it is a good thing that reforms of the NHS start by a consultation with the public who use it. There will be people listening to this and watching this that will have very specific experiences of the NHS that they think would be useful for the government to hear in terms of improving the situation and outcomes for patients.

to be made that it is a good thing that reforms of the NHS start by a consultation with the public who use it. There will be people listening to this and watching this that will have very specific experiences of the NHS that they think would be useful for the government to hear in terms of improving the situation and outcomes for patients.

Tobi, you're a sports fan. You'll be familiar with rope-a-dope. The Labour Party has just been gone full Muhammad Ali in the Rumble in the Jungle.

Tobi, you're a sports fan. You'll be familiar with rope-a-dope. The Labour Party has just been gone full Muhammad Ali in the Rumble in the Jungle.

It was a fighting tactic Muhammad Ali employed when he fought George Foreman in the Rubble in the Jungle. He was older than Foreman and so he leant back on the ropes and let Foreman essentially punch himself out. So I'm suggesting the Labour Party essentially let the Conservative Party tire themselves out by being in government for 14 years.

It was a fighting tactic Muhammad Ali employed when he fought George Foreman in the Rubble in the Jungle. He was older than Foreman and so he leant back on the ropes and let Foreman essentially punch himself out. So I'm suggesting the Labour Party essentially let the Conservative Party tire themselves out by being in government for 14 years.

It was a brilliant log. It was a brilliant log, God.

It was a brilliant log. It was a brilliant log, God.

No, friend.

No, friend.

The thing that... The Queen got iPod. I thought it was Gordon Brown that got iPod and some old DVDs.

The thing that... The Queen got iPod. I thought it was Gordon Brown that got iPod and some old DVDs.

The only thing that strikes me as strange about this is I don't really understand why we're not talking about the rollout of the Labour Party's plan for the NHS that it's been building up. in its period in opposition. I'm slightly concerned as to why...

The only thing that strikes me as strange about this is I don't really understand why we're not talking about the rollout of the Labour Party's plan for the NHS that it's been building up. in its period in opposition. I'm slightly concerned as to why...

Germany, the AfD. Yeah. Is there... Is there also some cooperation on wealth, like international tax stuff?

Germany, the AfD. Yeah. Is there... Is there also some cooperation on wealth, like international tax stuff?

Because the reality is that with multinational companies existing in the way that they do, and especially with a lot of tech companies existing as the way that they do, essentially sort of registered kind of in countries that are favourable to their tax arrangements, but still doing business in our individual countries and opting out of the tax system. Is that something we could also cooperate on?

Because the reality is that with multinational companies existing in the way that they do, and especially with a lot of tech companies existing as the way that they do, essentially sort of registered kind of in countries that are favourable to their tax arrangements, but still doing business in our individual countries and opting out of the tax system. Is that something we could also cooperate on?

He just played a version of Hallelujah and I thought, I think this might bring Leonard Cohen back from the dead. Yeah.

He just played a version of Hallelujah and I thought, I think this might bring Leonard Cohen back from the dead. Yeah.

there was no specific plan for day one of a Labour government and what it would do to start to deal with some of the problems in the National Health Service.

there was no specific plan for day one of a Labour government and what it would do to start to deal with some of the problems in the National Health Service.

Charles's first tour took him to Sydney, where he and his wife Camilla were said to be touched by projections of their images upon Sydney Opera House before heading south to the capital, Canberra, for a state reception at Parliament House. Things were going swimmingly for the Windsors until a surprise interruption, as you can hear in this clip from The Guardian.

Charles's first tour took him to Sydney, where he and his wife Camilla were said to be touched by projections of their images upon Sydney Opera House before heading south to the capital, Canberra, for a state reception at Parliament House. Things were going swimmingly for the Windsors until a surprise interruption, as you can hear in this clip from The Guardian.

Her time in the Greens was mired by a scandal that alleged that she was in a relationship with a member of a biker gang. And she controversially campaigned against Australia's failed Indigenous voice referendum, which would have established a presence for Indigenous Australians within the Australian parliamentary system.

Her time in the Greens was mired by a scandal that alleged that she was in a relationship with a member of a biker gang. And she controversially campaigned against Australia's failed Indigenous voice referendum, which would have established a presence for Indigenous Australians within the Australian parliamentary system.

Please go back and check out our Edinburgh Fringe episode with Tom Ballard to hear more on that if you haven't heard it already.

Please go back and check out our Edinburgh Fringe episode with Tom Ballard to hear more on that if you haven't heard it already.

So the... First solution I would have thought is an immediate cash injection into the National Health Service. And the idea that we're starting from a position of, okay, we need to make a list of everything that's wrong.

So the... First solution I would have thought is an immediate cash injection into the National Health Service. And the idea that we're starting from a position of, okay, we need to make a list of everything that's wrong.

She keeps saying you're not our king as well.

She keeps saying you're not our king as well.

And it's, you know, listen, as a British person, Do I find it strange that our king is a king of Australia? Yes. Incredibly strange. I find the idea of the Commonwealth genuinely strange. You know, as both a child of Britain and also, I guess, a child of one of the countries in said Commonwealth, I do find the whole enterprise quite strange.

And it's, you know, listen, as a British person, Do I find it strange that our king is a king of Australia? Yes. Incredibly strange. I find the idea of the Commonwealth genuinely strange. You know, as both a child of Britain and also, I guess, a child of one of the countries in said Commonwealth, I do find the whole enterprise quite strange.

Lydia Thorpe's protest doesn't come as a great time for Keir Starmer and Ted Downing Street because they are actively trying to avoid discussion of reparations for slavery and the actions of the British Empire at the upcoming meeting of the leaders of the Commonwealth in Samoa that King Charles is also due to attend.

Lydia Thorpe's protest doesn't come as a great time for Keir Starmer and Ted Downing Street because they are actively trying to avoid discussion of reparations for slavery and the actions of the British Empire at the upcoming meeting of the leaders of the Commonwealth in Samoa that King Charles is also due to attend.

The UK has stated that there'll be no apology over the UK's involvement in the transatlantic slave trade.

The UK has stated that there'll be no apology over the UK's involvement in the transatlantic slave trade.

We should say this is in spite of some pressure from backbench Labour MPs. Labour MP Bill Ribeiro-Addy has said that the UK has a moral and legal duty to address historic injustices. And one of the former guests on the show, Clive Lewis, the MP, pointed out that David Lammy is a son of the Caribbean from Guyana.

We should say this is in spite of some pressure from backbench Labour MPs. Labour MP Bill Ribeiro-Addy has said that the UK has a moral and legal duty to address historic injustices. And one of the former guests on the show, Clive Lewis, the MP, pointed out that David Lammy is a son of the Caribbean from Guyana.

And Clive said there are high expectations that he will move the dial in their direction.

And Clive said there are high expectations that he will move the dial in their direction.

So the NHS is the government's topic of the week, and it's nice to see us focusing on reform and policy as opposed to just talking about how everything's getting worse. Prime Minister Keir Starmer has declared a once-in-a-generation opportunity for the NHS to be reformed, and that's great. But the way that they've gone about it has struck us as being a little strange.

So the NHS is the government's topic of the week, and it's nice to see us focusing on reform and policy as opposed to just talking about how everything's getting worse. Prime Minister Keir Starmer has declared a once-in-a-generation opportunity for the NHS to be reformed, and that's great. But the way that they've gone about it has struck us as being a little strange.

Now, while Labour are resistant to pay slavery reparations, the British government did agree to pay a generous compensation package of £20 million to the slave owners for the loss of their, and I'm very heavily inverting the commas around this word, property, which amounts to about £300 million in today's money. This amounted to some 40% of the Treasury's annual income.

Now, while Labour are resistant to pay slavery reparations, the British government did agree to pay a generous compensation package of £20 million to the slave owners for the loss of their, and I'm very heavily inverting the commas around this word, property, which amounts to about £300 million in today's money. This amounted to some 40% of the Treasury's annual income.

one of the largest loans in history, and the British taxpayer only finished paying this off in 2015. That is the largest single governmental bailout until the bailout of the banking sector after the 2008 financial crisis. That fact alone should be enough to boil the blood of any right-thinking person.

one of the largest loans in history, and the British taxpayer only finished paying this off in 2015. That is the largest single governmental bailout until the bailout of the banking sector after the 2008 financial crisis. That fact alone should be enough to boil the blood of any right-thinking person.

It's deeply concerning. Because when does that actually translate to policy? And when does that actually translate to money going into the service? We all know the key problem. I can't imagine how many of those... Public consultations are, we need more money, our hospital doesn't work, we can't get an appointment with our GP. You have to do something in the short term to fix a crisis.

It's deeply concerning. Because when does that actually translate to policy? And when does that actually translate to money going into the service? We all know the key problem. I can't imagine how many of those... Public consultations are, we need more money, our hospital doesn't work, we can't get an appointment with our GP. You have to do something in the short term to fix a crisis.

You know, again, I think that... A lot of our country's historic crimes were not committed on our own soil. And as a consequence, I think we have escaped the kind of accountability that the individual countries of America and Australia maybe haven't in quite the same way. But, you know, these are all British people that are doing this. We have a

You know, again, I think that... A lot of our country's historic crimes were not committed on our own soil. And as a consequence, I think we have escaped the kind of accountability that the individual countries of America and Australia maybe haven't in quite the same way. But, you know, these are all British people that are doing this. We have a

We had a tendency to say, well, the Australians did X, Y and Z. I mean, I'm sorry, who were the Australians? You know, you're talking about a lot of British people that are involved in that. The Stolen Generation is one of the most brutal and evil policies it's possible to conceive of. It's astonishing.

We had a tendency to say, well, the Australians did X, Y and Z. I mean, I'm sorry, who were the Australians? You know, you're talking about a lot of British people that are involved in that. The Stolen Generation is one of the most brutal and evil policies it's possible to conceive of. It's astonishing.

Yeah. The film Rabbit Proof Fence is one that's worth watching. It's specifically about the Stolen Generation. You know, I'm almost loathe to bring this up, but I do think it's worth discussing just because of the lack of historical education in this country around Britain's role in the slave trade. But the former Conservative MP, Jacob Rees-Mogg, it's very sweet to say former Conservative MP.

Yeah. The film Rabbit Proof Fence is one that's worth watching. It's specifically about the Stolen Generation. You know, I'm almost loathe to bring this up, but I do think it's worth discussing just because of the lack of historical education in this country around Britain's role in the slave trade. But the former Conservative MP, Jacob Rees-Mogg, it's very sweet to say former Conservative MP.

It's very sweet to say that. The former Conservative MP, Jacob Rees-Mogg, was tweeting last week about the slave trade. And he said this, they ought to pay us for ending slavery. It is not something any other country had done and we were motivated by Christian charity. Now, the only reason I'm highlighting that... I really don't want to bring any more attention to this man.

It's very sweet to say that. The former Conservative MP, Jacob Rees-Mogg, was tweeting last week about the slave trade. And he said this, they ought to pay us for ending slavery. It is not something any other country had done and we were motivated by Christian charity. Now, the only reason I'm highlighting that... I really don't want to bring any more attention to this man.

The reason I'm highlighting it is actually because... it shows the lack of historical education around the slave trade. There is a total gap in our knowledge. The British complicity in the slave trade and Britain's participation in it is not something we talk about enough.

The reason I'm highlighting it is actually because... it shows the lack of historical education around the slave trade. There is a total gap in our knowledge. The British complicity in the slave trade and Britain's participation in it is not something we talk about enough.

And just the very fact that he said they should pay us suggests that he has absolutely no working... I mean, this is a generous interpretation. He has no working knowledge that the British government did bail out slave owners in this country. It really is something that is massively under-discussed and...

And just the very fact that he said they should pay us suggests that he has absolutely no working... I mean, this is a generous interpretation. He has no working knowledge that the British government did bail out slave owners in this country. It really is something that is massively under-discussed and...

To be charitable in interpreting Rhys Mogg's comments, I'm going to say that that's evidence of a profound lack of historical education in this country around the slave trade. I should also say that somebody, there is a television company and a television streaming platform that is making a documentary about the Rees-Mogg's.

To be charitable in interpreting Rhys Mogg's comments, I'm going to say that that's evidence of a profound lack of historical education in this country around the slave trade. I should also say that somebody, there is a television company and a television streaming platform that is making a documentary about the Rees-Mogg's.

Like a Kardashian star. And the reason I know about that is they requested to come and see my show at the Edinburgh Fringe. They wanted Rees-Mogg. This is absolutely true. They wanted Rees-Mogg to sit in my show. Why? And they wanted to interview me about how I felt about him. in that moment. I mean, I would love to tell you the content of the email I sent my agent when she asked me.

Like a Kardashian star. And the reason I know about that is they requested to come and see my show at the Edinburgh Fringe. They wanted Rees-Mogg. This is absolutely true. They wanted Rees-Mogg to sit in my show. Why? And they wanted to interview me about how I felt about him. in that moment. I mean, I would love to tell you the content of the email I sent my agent when she asked me.

I mean, she sent me that not in the spirit of a genuine professional request. She sent me that in the spirit of can you believe this shit? And the... A volley of expletives I unleashed at that point. Wow. Yeah, they wanted to film him watching my show and then they wanted to film like an interview with me afterwards with him.

I mean, she sent me that not in the spirit of a genuine professional request. She sent me that in the spirit of can you believe this shit? And the... A volley of expletives I unleashed at that point. Wow. Yeah, they wanted to film him watching my show and then they wanted to film like an interview with me afterwards with him.

I've genuinely no idea. A friend of mine said you should have, you know, had him in there and given him what for, but he is congenitally shameless.

I've genuinely no idea. A friend of mine said you should have, you know, had him in there and given him what for, but he is congenitally shameless.

You can't embarrass someone that has no sense of shame. And I just think the immediate project from, you know, parts of the media in this country to rehabilitate him. And the consistent pattern of taking figures like Rhys Mogg, who, you know... did say that people in the Grenfell Tower would have survived if they'd been smart enough to exit their buildings early.

You can't embarrass someone that has no sense of shame. And I just think the immediate project from, you know, parts of the media in this country to rehabilitate him. And the consistent pattern of taking figures like Rhys Mogg, who, you know... did say that people in the Grenfell Tower would have survived if they'd been smart enough to exit their buildings early.

That is something he said in the lead up to the 2019 general election. He did attend a dinner at a society that is trying to encourage voluntary repatriation of black British people. These are not people that we should be indulging in the kind of entertainment sector. That's just, that's not really related to anything other than I've just been incredibly annoyed about it.

That is something he said in the lead up to the 2019 general election. He did attend a dinner at a society that is trying to encourage voluntary repatriation of black British people. These are not people that we should be indulging in the kind of entertainment sector. That's just, that's not really related to anything other than I've just been incredibly annoyed about it.

But also you can't shame a shameless person. It's the old Lyndon Johnson quote of, there's no point in wrestling with a pig because you get dirty and the pig likes it. And Rhys Mogg is the piggest pig that's ever pigged. So, I mean, I just think that the sort of rehabilitation of this man is absolutely unbelievable. And also, buy a ticket! Yeah. If that's your problem, buy a ticket.

But also you can't shame a shameless person. It's the old Lyndon Johnson quote of, there's no point in wrestling with a pig because you get dirty and the pig likes it. And Rhys Mogg is the piggest pig that's ever pigged. So, I mean, I just think that the sort of rehabilitation of this man is absolutely unbelievable. And also, buy a ticket! Yeah. If that's your problem, buy a ticket.

If you're that interested.

If you're that interested.

No, I mean, this would be a reverse VIP service.

No, I mean, this would be a reverse VIP service.

Yeah, really abused. Abused to all of the confines of the law.

Yeah, really abused. Abused to all of the confines of the law.

Don't forget to follow at Pod Save the UK on Instagram, TikTok and Twitter. And if you want more of us, make sure you've subscribed to our YouTube channel.

Don't forget to follow at Pod Save the UK on Instagram, TikTok and Twitter. And if you want more of us, make sure you've subscribed to our YouTube channel.

Thanks to senior producer James Tindale and assistant producer May Robson, with additional support from our multi-track fellow Derek Armat.

Thanks to senior producer James Tindale and assistant producer May Robson, with additional support from our multi-track fellow Derek Armat.

Thanks to our engineer Ryan McBeath.

Thanks to our engineer Ryan McBeath.

And remember to hit subscribe for new shows on Thursdays on Amazon, Spotify or Apple, or wherever you get your podcasts.

And remember to hit subscribe for new shows on Thursdays on Amazon, Spotify or Apple, or wherever you get your podcasts.

To find out, we're joined by former leader of the Labour Party and the independent MP for Islington North, Jeremy Corbyn. Welcome back to Pod Save the UK. Great to have you with us. Nice to be with you. So, Jeremy, what is life like for you outside of the party that you were a member of for over 40 years? Over 50 years. Over 50?

To find out, we're joined by former leader of the Labour Party and the independent MP for Islington North, Jeremy Corbyn. Welcome back to Pod Save the UK. Great to have you with us. Nice to be with you. So, Jeremy, what is life like for you outside of the party that you were a member of for over 40 years? Over 50 years. Over 50?

I'm not going to press you for further clarification on the phrase high times.

I'm not going to press you for further clarification on the phrase high times.

Listen, if Evis was there, we know what kind of high times those times were. After the last decade and a half, how did it feel to see the party that you have been part of for so much of your life and led come to power in the election?

Listen, if Evis was there, we know what kind of high times those times were. After the last decade and a half, how did it feel to see the party that you have been part of for so much of your life and led come to power in the election?

The government will announce spending plans next week and Rachel Reeves has promised that there will be no return to austerity. But at the same time, there's a string of mixed messages about whether there is going to be spending increases or whether the purse strings are going to be tightened. How are you feeling about the direction of travel in the budget?

The government will announce spending plans next week and Rachel Reeves has promised that there will be no return to austerity. But at the same time, there's a string of mixed messages about whether there is going to be spending increases or whether the purse strings are going to be tightened. How are you feeling about the direction of travel in the budget?

And what would you be hoping to see Rachel Reeves announced next week?

And what would you be hoping to see Rachel Reeves announced next week?

And I'm Nish Kumar. And today we're speaking to the independent MP for Islington North, Jeremy Corbyn, to understand what's next for the left.

And I'm Nish Kumar. And today we're speaking to the independent MP for Islington North, Jeremy Corbyn, to understand what's next for the left.

Yes, I mean, in something that any of us could have seen happening, the proposals that were coming in thick and fast were different flavours of nonsense. One of them included putting beer on tap in hospitals. Free cinema tickets from the NHS. Waffles for every meal. Just some of the highlights from day one of the consultation. Development of an alchemical panacea is an incredible piece of policy.

Yes, I mean, in something that any of us could have seen happening, the proposals that were coming in thick and fast were different flavours of nonsense. One of them included putting beer on tap in hospitals. Free cinema tickets from the NHS. Waffles for every meal. Just some of the highlights from day one of the consultation. Development of an alchemical panacea is an incredible piece of policy.

Can I just ask, just before we move on, I'm thinking particularly of the 2017 manifesto. That was a very closely run election. Do you now maybe reflect that there's part of you that thinks maybe my instincts were correct, that an over-detailed document, whilst it appealed to people that are disposed to vote for the Labour Party, might have maybe put off some undecided voters?

Can I just ask, just before we move on, I'm thinking particularly of the 2017 manifesto. That was a very closely run election. Do you now maybe reflect that there's part of you that thinks maybe my instincts were correct, that an over-detailed document, whilst it appealed to people that are disposed to vote for the Labour Party, might have maybe put off some undecided voters?

It does seem to be a contradiction in terms. Being a grandee doesn't seem very left-wing.

It does seem to be a contradiction in terms. Being a grandee doesn't seem very left-wing.

Well, this is linguistic communism.

Well, this is linguistic communism.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I'm not sure anybody would get behind the proposal for mandatory euthanasia to fill up hospital beds, but the suggestion to legalise recreational cannabis might make Cocoa happy.

I'm not sure anybody would get behind the proposal for mandatory euthanasia to fill up hospital beds, but the suggestion to legalise recreational cannabis might make Cocoa happy.

So wait, so what we're talking about at the moment, you've got the new group with four independent MPs known as the Independent Alliance, which is not an insignificant number. You're the fifth largest block in the House of Commons and are tied with Reform UK and the DUP. So you've got that Independent Alliance.

So wait, so what we're talking about at the moment, you've got the new group with four independent MPs known as the Independent Alliance, which is not an insignificant number. You're the fifth largest block in the House of Commons and are tied with Reform UK and the DUP. So you've got that Independent Alliance.

And now you're also making these consultations around the country, which you said you want to be democratic, accountable and be about grassroots action that then translates itself into specific policy ideas on areas like housing and mental health. But then is there then a logical conclusion of this voting bloc with these grassroots groups that are generating ideas?

And now you're also making these consultations around the country, which you said you want to be democratic, accountable and be about grassroots action that then translates itself into specific policy ideas on areas like housing and mental health. But then is there then a logical conclusion of this voting bloc with these grassroots groups that are generating ideas?

Does that then translate itself into a new political party under the name collective?

Does that then translate itself into a new political party under the name collective?

That's been the key debate in question, hasn't it? Is how progressive people engage. Because there's been an argument that actually non-engagement is better because if you go into their spaces, they control the terms of things like the edit. And also there's been this argument that if you spend too much time engaging with something like...

That's been the key debate in question, hasn't it? Is how progressive people engage. Because there's been an argument that actually non-engagement is better because if you go into their spaces, they control the terms of things like the edit. And also there's been this argument that if you spend too much time engaging with something like...

ex formerly twitter you actually legitimize a platform owned by a guy who's you know i don't know doing one long held wave is that what we're gonna call it now we're blaming on asperger's um Cannot tell you, neurodivergence does not make you do Hitler salutes. I'm so sorry to burst the bubble.

ex formerly twitter you actually legitimize a platform owned by a guy who's you know i don't know doing one long held wave is that what we're gonna call it now we're blaming on asperger's um Cannot tell you, neurodivergence does not make you do Hitler salutes. I'm so sorry to burst the bubble.

Well, look, the next four years are going to clearly be one hell of a ride. So joining us now to find out what's in store for America, the UK, and indeed the rest of the world, is Jon Favreau, host of Pod Save America and Offline. And I guess my boss. It's never really been fully made clear to me.

Well, look, the next four years are going to clearly be one hell of a ride. So joining us now to find out what's in store for America, the UK, and indeed the rest of the world, is Jon Favreau, host of Pod Save America and Offline. And I guess my boss. It's never really been fully made clear to me.

Jon Favreau, thank you so much for joining us on Pod Save the UK. Thank you. If you want to get more ongoing coverage and political analysis of Trump's second term, tune in to Pod Save America every Tuesday and Friday on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. Now, with the Trump inauguration, the climate emergency has never felt more urgent.

Jon Favreau, thank you so much for joining us on Pod Save the UK. Thank you. If you want to get more ongoing coverage and political analysis of Trump's second term, tune in to Pod Save America every Tuesday and Friday on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. Now, with the Trump inauguration, the climate emergency has never felt more urgent.

After the break, Coco and I will be speaking to the Green Party co-leader, Carla Denya. Things are not looking good for planet Earth. And that was probably the wrong tone of voice to say that particular sentence. We kicked off the new year with wildfires in LA, major flooding in Greater Manchester and landslides in Indonesia.

After the break, Coco and I will be speaking to the Green Party co-leader, Carla Denya. Things are not looking good for planet Earth. And that was probably the wrong tone of voice to say that particular sentence. We kicked off the new year with wildfires in LA, major flooding in Greater Manchester and landslides in Indonesia.

Meanwhile, Trump wasted no time at his inauguration in withdrawing the US from the Paris Climate Agreement for the second time.

Meanwhile, Trump wasted no time at his inauguration in withdrawing the US from the Paris Climate Agreement for the second time.

It's a private member's bill introduced by Lib Dem MP Roz Savage, and it's attracted cross-party support and the backing of many campaign groups. Its second reading is later this week, and the Green Party co-leader, Carla Denya, is one of the bill's co-sponsors, and she is our guest in the studio. Welcome back to Pod Save the UK, Carla.

It's a private member's bill introduced by Lib Dem MP Roz Savage, and it's attracted cross-party support and the backing of many campaign groups. Its second reading is later this week, and the Green Party co-leader, Carla Denya, is one of the bill's co-sponsors, and she is our guest in the studio. Welcome back to Pod Save the UK, Carla.

Yes, I did. But I don't know why I did. What possible benefit could that have had?

Yes, I did. But I don't know why I did. What possible benefit could that have had?

The inauguration of Trump, it has a sort of seismic impact on any number of fields, but particularly with the environment and also the sort of signing away of a lot of LGBTQIA rights as part of his first wave of executive orders. How do you feel watching that happen almost in real time?

The inauguration of Trump, it has a sort of seismic impact on any number of fields, but particularly with the environment and also the sort of signing away of a lot of LGBTQIA rights as part of his first wave of executive orders. How do you feel watching that happen almost in real time?

Let's try and focus on the more hopeful elements of this. The Climate and Nature Bill feels like a first step in fighting back on the global stage. So tell us what the kind of key headlines in the bill are.

Let's try and focus on the more hopeful elements of this. The Climate and Nature Bill feels like a first step in fighting back on the global stage. So tell us what the kind of key headlines in the bill are.

Do you have the support of individual Labour MPs?

Do you have the support of individual Labour MPs?

In terms of the specifics of it, I mean, the target of 1.5 degrees, that threshold was already surpassed last year. Is that an argument that the bill doesn't go far enough or is that an argument you're trying to make to sow the urgency of passing something like this?

In terms of the specifics of it, I mean, the target of 1.5 degrees, that threshold was already surpassed last year. Is that an argument that the bill doesn't go far enough or is that an argument you're trying to make to sow the urgency of passing something like this?

Last week, it was reported that the government set to back expansion at three London airports, Heathrow, Luton and Gatwick, as part of the efforts to spur economic growth. The environmental charity, the WWF, have said this would cancel out the carbon savings of the government's clean power action plan in just five years. And that there is an argument that the growth benefits don't stack up.

Last week, it was reported that the government set to back expansion at three London airports, Heathrow, Luton and Gatwick, as part of the efforts to spur economic growth. The environmental charity, the WWF, have said this would cancel out the carbon savings of the government's clean power action plan in just five years. And that there is an argument that the growth benefits don't stack up.

If this bill passes... Would the Climate and Nature Bill be able to prevent decisions like that from being taken on the basis of the environmental impact?

If this bill passes... Would the Climate and Nature Bill be able to prevent decisions like that from being taken on the basis of the environmental impact?

I can't drive. So when I started doing stand-up 15 years ago, I was completely reliant on the train network. And I've sort of slowly watched... the prices just tick up as the quality of service has gone down. Listen, I'm not going to get on my high horse as I announce an extension of my US tour. I'm not going to get on my high horse about people flying, right?

I can't drive. So when I started doing stand-up 15 years ago, I was completely reliant on the train network. And I've sort of slowly watched... the prices just tick up as the quality of service has gone down. Listen, I'm not going to get on my high horse as I announce an extension of my US tour. I'm not going to get on my high horse about people flying, right?

But in a country the size of ours, we shouldn't need to fly internally. But... I am also aware when I look at train tickets as I book them to go from London to Manchester, that if you were not able to spend that money, of course you would fly. Of course you would save the money.

But in a country the size of ours, we shouldn't need to fly internally. But... I am also aware when I look at train tickets as I book them to go from London to Manchester, that if you were not able to spend that money, of course you would fly. Of course you would save the money.

Absolutely, 100%. The concern that I have at the moment, or one of the many concerns I have at the moment, is how specifically we combat a wave of disinformation. Now, that has consequences across all of politics, but particularly on the climate.

Absolutely, 100%. The concern that I have at the moment, or one of the many concerns I have at the moment, is how specifically we combat a wave of disinformation. Now, that has consequences across all of politics, but particularly on the climate.

It is so important that we are having a scientific and fact-based conversation. I don't want to be like that guy, but like... I get people just don't give a fuck about black and brown people. I get that now. That has been made very clear to me over and over again. So I don't expect people to be sympathetic to the people in Pacific Islands or people in Asia.

It is so important that we are having a scientific and fact-based conversation. I don't want to be like that guy, but like... I get people just don't give a fuck about black and brown people. I get that now. That has been made very clear to me over and over again. So I don't expect people to be sympathetic to the people in Pacific Islands or people in Asia.

I've given up trying to make the case for our basic humanity because it does seem like there is an immovable and very voluble minority that just doesn't acknowledge us to be human beings. But...

I've given up trying to make the case for our basic humanity because it does seem like there is an immovable and very voluble minority that just doesn't acknowledge us to be human beings. But...

The people being relocated in California, a lot of them are white people. Australia is routinely on fire. These are places where white people live. I would have thought that...

The people being relocated in California, a lot of them are white people. Australia is routinely on fire. These are places where white people live. I would have thought that...

Yeah, surely the penny is dropping. This idea that catastrophic climate change is something that's coming in the pipeline. You can't look at the scenes of people's houses that they've lived in for decades with all of their entire possessions burning to the ground, belching kind of toxic clouds into the air to the people that are still in the area.

Yeah, surely the penny is dropping. This idea that catastrophic climate change is something that's coming in the pipeline. You can't look at the scenes of people's houses that they've lived in for decades with all of their entire possessions burning to the ground, belching kind of toxic clouds into the air to the people that are still in the area.

As that was happening, I would have thought we'd stop we'd be able to move on from this idea that catastrophe is impending when catastrophe is now. Absolutely.

As that was happening, I would have thought we'd stop we'd be able to move on from this idea that catastrophe is impending when catastrophe is now. Absolutely.

Oh my God.

Oh my God.

They somehow managed to blame it on homeless people. Some people have managed to blame it on immigrants. Some people are blaming it on Diddy. Now, listen, there are a lot of things that can be blamed on Diddy. There are a lot of things that can be blamed on Diddy. And that legal case is ongoing. But the amount of conspiracy theories that are just being fired out about the LA Fires.

They somehow managed to blame it on homeless people. Some people have managed to blame it on immigrants. Some people are blaming it on Diddy. Now, listen, there are a lot of things that can be blamed on Diddy. There are a lot of things that can be blamed on Diddy. And that legal case is ongoing. But the amount of conspiracy theories that are just being fired out about the LA Fires.

And so you have this incredible sort of dissonant image of... California burning to the ground at the same time Trump is inaugurated and immediately pulls the US out of Paris. Where is the reason here?

And so you have this incredible sort of dissonant image of... California burning to the ground at the same time Trump is inaugurated and immediately pulls the US out of Paris. Where is the reason here?

That's a constitutional right. The president doesn't have the power to overturn that, right?

That's a constitutional right. The president doesn't have the power to overturn that, right?

Let's close with a more optimistic conversation. A kernel of real optimism in this is this cross-party support and this idea that, you know, everybody breathes air, like ultimately, apart from Rupert Murdoch. But that's maybe a separate issue. But like the rest of us are mammals that breathe air. So like in terms of your dealings on this specific bill,

Let's close with a more optimistic conversation. A kernel of real optimism in this is this cross-party support and this idea that, you know, everybody breathes air, like ultimately, apart from Rupert Murdoch. But that's maybe a separate issue. But like the rest of us are mammals that breathe air. So like in terms of your dealings on this specific bill,

Have you had some grounds for optimism in terms of the cross-party cooperation on it?

Have you had some grounds for optimism in terms of the cross-party cooperation on it?

So what can listeners do in terms of helping this further along? Obviously, it's quite a short turnaround because the vote, if it happens, is going to be on Friday 8th.

So what can listeners do in terms of helping this further along? Obviously, it's quite a short turnaround because the vote, if it happens, is going to be on Friday 8th.

Right, so with Trump's inauguration, inevitably there's been a deluge of WTFuck moments. So we've collected the best of the worst for you. Buckle up.

Right, so with Trump's inauguration, inevitably there's been a deluge of WTFuck moments. So we've collected the best of the worst for you. Buckle up.

Not actually confirming that she was invited.

Not actually confirming that she was invited.

It's got real... I never thought I'd see a comparison between Vince Vaughn and Suella Braverman, but it has real wedding crashes energy. It has real wedding crashes energy.

It's got real... I never thought I'd see a comparison between Vince Vaughn and Suella Braverman, but it has real wedding crashes energy. It has real wedding crashes energy.

Bradford said that her and her husband happened to be on the same flight as Fox, but later Fox live streamed them walking through Washington, D.C. together. So, like, it's a very interesting claim to be like, no, no, we're not here together. We just happened to coincidentally be walking down the same street together while he live streams us.

Bradford said that her and her husband happened to be on the same flight as Fox, but later Fox live streamed them walking through Washington, D.C. together. So, like, it's a very interesting claim to be like, no, no, we're not here together. We just happened to coincidentally be walking down the same street together while he live streams us.

And also presumably people willing to invest in their cryptocurrency. Because I think just in terms of from a British perspective, obviously, our media is sort of drowning in a deluge of executive orders. And there are elements in there that have very specific concerns for the day-to-day lives of British people, particularly, obviously, pulling out the Paris Climate Agreement.

And also presumably people willing to invest in their cryptocurrency. Because I think just in terms of from a British perspective, obviously, our media is sort of drowning in a deluge of executive orders. And there are elements in there that have very specific concerns for the day-to-day lives of British people, particularly, obviously, pulling out the Paris Climate Agreement.

That happens to us literally every week. That is the worst possible anecdote. No, no. for my self-esteem that you could have released. That happened to us this morning.

That happens to us literally every week. That is the worst possible anecdote. No, no. for my self-esteem that you could have released. That happened to us this morning.

On our way in. We ran into each other on the tube on the way in.

On our way in. We ran into each other on the tube on the way in.

Moving on from our awkward conversations with our irritating co-workers.

Moving on from our awkward conversations with our irritating co-workers.

For like our American listeners, if you're looking for kernels of hope, Liz Truss being supportive of your political project feels like a curse.

For like our American listeners, if you're looking for kernels of hope, Liz Truss being supportive of your political project feels like a curse.

Things that Liz Truss tends to get 100% behind tend to collapse quite quickly in our experience.

Things that Liz Truss tends to get 100% behind tend to collapse quite quickly in our experience.

Yeah, Nigel Farage, obviously the far right-hand man of many of the cronies involved. And also, you know, Priti Patel, listen, if you're going to have a Tory MP turn up to meet with a foreign government, why not make it one who actually lost their job for doing that?

Yeah, Nigel Farage, obviously the far right-hand man of many of the cronies involved. And also, you know, Priti Patel, listen, if you're going to have a Tory MP turn up to meet with a foreign government, why not make it one who actually lost their job for doing that?

Also not in the room, Lawrence Fox, but he was forced to watch the inauguration from, and I sort of can't quite believe I'm about to say this, Kid Rock's hotel room. Man. Alongside his buddy, the right-wing priest, Calvin Robinson. I guess the incredibly selective Bible-reading priest, Calvin Robinson, who previously left the UK for the US in protest at what he called the Satanic Keir Starmer.

Also not in the room, Lawrence Fox, but he was forced to watch the inauguration from, and I sort of can't quite believe I'm about to say this, Kid Rock's hotel room. Man. Alongside his buddy, the right-wing priest, Calvin Robinson. I guess the incredibly selective Bible-reading priest, Calvin Robinson, who previously left the UK for the US in protest at what he called the Satanic Keir Starmer.

I don't really even know what to say. Like, it's a failed actor, a failed vicar and a failed rock star in a hotel room, which feels like the set-up line to an awful joke.

I don't really even know what to say. Like, it's a failed actor, a failed vicar and a failed rock star in a hotel room, which feels like the set-up line to an awful joke.

No, I, where possible, try and avoid any mentions of Kid Rock.

No, I, where possible, try and avoid any mentions of Kid Rock.

I want to go back to that. But I do think a story that has slightly passed us by is this sort of inauguration grift that he's gone into. Do I have this right? He's launched Trump and Melania meme coins, which by some estimates have made the president more money in 24 hours than the entirety of the rest of his career.

I want to go back to that. But I do think a story that has slightly passed us by is this sort of inauguration grift that he's gone into. Do I have this right? He's launched Trump and Melania meme coins, which by some estimates have made the president more money in 24 hours than the entirety of the rest of his career.

It's just nice sometimes to see a person whose politics are as awful as their music. Just a good double whammy for you there. He did make it onto the BBC News. That's Kid Rock, I mean, where whilst puffing on a cigar, he used the airtime to make creepy, sexist remarks to the BBC's chief presenter, Katrina Perry.

It's just nice sometimes to see a person whose politics are as awful as their music. Just a good double whammy for you there. He did make it onto the BBC News. That's Kid Rock, I mean, where whilst puffing on a cigar, he used the airtime to make creepy, sexist remarks to the BBC's chief presenter, Katrina Perry.

The MAGA movement is spearheaded by a man seemingly contemptuous of women as a gender. So it's maybe not surprising that like one of his sort of, in inverted commas, celebrity supporters just feels that, you know, he can sort of casually... Yeah, it's totally emboldened to do that.

The MAGA movement is spearheaded by a man seemingly contemptuous of women as a gender. So it's maybe not surprising that like one of his sort of, in inverted commas, celebrity supporters just feels that, you know, he can sort of casually... Yeah, it's totally emboldened to do that.

Unbelievably, this isn't the first time this has happened to this specific journalist. She was actually hit on live on air by Donald Trump himself. Here he is singling out Perry at a press event in the Oval Office seven years ago in this clip from the BBC.

Unbelievably, this isn't the first time this has happened to this specific journalist. She was actually hit on live on air by Donald Trump himself. Here he is singling out Perry at a press event in the Oval Office seven years ago in this clip from the BBC.

This is who they are. If you have a political movement spearheaded by a guy that does not respect women... This is exactly who they are. I feel incredibly sorry for Perry and all of these female journalists that in the line of doing their job are going to have to sort of be confronted by these men. It's gross.

This is who they are. If you have a political movement spearheaded by a guy that does not respect women... This is exactly who they are. I feel incredibly sorry for Perry and all of these female journalists that in the line of doing their job are going to have to sort of be confronted by these men. It's gross.

I think with this political movement, the important thing is to not ignore all of the signs that it's showing you. The political movement is sort of infected with sexism, homophobia, transphobia and racism. Like that is a huge part of who the kind of leaders of this movement are. You know, Musk stood on stage and essentially did a Nazi salute to a crowd. Let's not overthink it.

I think with this political movement, the important thing is to not ignore all of the signs that it's showing you. The political movement is sort of infected with sexism, homophobia, transphobia and racism. Like that is a huge part of who the kind of leaders of this movement are. You know, Musk stood on stage and essentially did a Nazi salute to a crowd. Let's not overthink it.

Let's believe who they're telling us they are and start to articulate an opposition to it because you can't push back against something you're not acknowledging the existence of. And that, that, I'm not being particularly coded in that. I am talking directly to the Labour Party. I appreciate the difficult position that a Labour government has been put into by this election result.

Let's believe who they're telling us they are and start to articulate an opposition to it because you can't push back against something you're not acknowledging the existence of. And that, that, I'm not being particularly coded in that. I am talking directly to the Labour Party. I appreciate the difficult position that a Labour government has been put into by this election result.

The market cap on the coin at the time of recording is seven and a half billion dollars. And Trump owns over 80 percent of the holdings. Certainly, that seems to be a key part of Donald Trump's personal agenda, which is constantly trying to think of new ways to enrich himself. I mean, it looks like corruption. It smells like corruption.

The market cap on the coin at the time of recording is seven and a half billion dollars. And Trump owns over 80 percent of the holdings. Certainly, that seems to be a key part of Donald Trump's personal agenda, which is constantly trying to think of new ways to enrich himself. I mean, it looks like corruption. It smells like corruption.

I absolutely appreciate that. But at the same time, there has to be a better balance struck between maintaining the relationships between the US and the UK government and a supposedly progressive party not co-signing... you know, white nationalist, misogynist, homophobic, Christian nationalism. Like, there has to be a way. There has to be a way for us to navigate all of this stuff.

I absolutely appreciate that. But at the same time, there has to be a better balance struck between maintaining the relationships between the US and the UK government and a supposedly progressive party not co-signing... you know, white nationalist, misogynist, homophobic, Christian nationalism. Like, there has to be a way. There has to be a way for us to navigate all of this stuff.

It's not the most fun note to end the podcast on.

It's not the most fun note to end the podcast on.

It was funnier when you were making pass-ags digs at me. We've got to go and get the tube home together now. How is that going to make me feel on that walk back?

It was funnier when you were making pass-ags digs at me. We've got to go and get the tube home together now. How is that going to make me feel on that walk back?

Are you going to fake a phone call?

Are you going to fake a phone call?

From this morning.

From this morning.

And that's it. Thanks for listening to Pod Save the UK. As always, we want to hear your thoughts. Email us at psuk at reducelistening.co.uk.

And that's it. Thanks for listening to Pod Save the UK. As always, we want to hear your thoughts. Email us at psuk at reducelistening.co.uk.

Pod Save the UK is a reduced listening production for Crooked Media.

Pod Save the UK is a reduced listening production for Crooked Media.

Our theme music is by Vassilis Fotopoulos.

Our theme music is by Vassilis Fotopoulos.

The executive producers are Anishka Sharma and Madeleine Herringer with additional support from Ari Schwartz.

The executive producers are Anishka Sharma and Madeleine Herringer with additional support from Ari Schwartz.

It's very important to understand that like, this is what Trump is all about really, isn't it? Like forget all of the agendas and all of the promises about, you know, improving America. Forget all of the incredibly, a speech so boring, even he looked bored reading it that he gave at the inauguration. This is really what it's about. And this is what he's always been about fundamentally.

It's very important to understand that like, this is what Trump is all about really, isn't it? Like forget all of the agendas and all of the promises about, you know, improving America. Forget all of the incredibly, a speech so boring, even he looked bored reading it that he gave at the inauguration. This is really what it's about. And this is what he's always been about fundamentally.

Too early in the show for nipples. It's too early in the show for nipple chat. But anyway, to find out what it all means, we'll be joined by Pod Save America's Jon Favreau.

Too early in the show for nipples. It's too early in the show for nipple chat. But anyway, to find out what it all means, we'll be joined by Pod Save America's Jon Favreau.

Yeah, the Harris campaign was criticized a lot for not speaking to the concerns of ordinary Americans. Who knew that those concerns were renaming the Gulf of Mexico? That's what they wanted, yeah. In terms of the international front, so mercifully, we have seen a ceasefire in Gaza. We've heard over the weekend, obviously, the Trump team has been very keen to take a huge amount of credit.

Yeah, the Harris campaign was criticized a lot for not speaking to the concerns of ordinary Americans. Who knew that those concerns were renaming the Gulf of Mexico? That's what they wanted, yeah. In terms of the international front, so mercifully, we have seen a ceasefire in Gaza. We've heard over the weekend, obviously, the Trump team has been very keen to take a huge amount of credit.

And I'm Nish Kumar. And Trump is back in the White House and the next four years are going to be a nightmare.

And I'm Nish Kumar. And Trump is back in the White House and the next four years are going to be a nightmare.

Trump essentially took credit for it in several of his various inauguration speeches. Trump has said he's not confident the ceasefire will hold, echoing Netanyahu's language that this is a temporary ceasefire. He's also declared a rollback on sanctions on settlers in the West Bank. And since the ceasefire was announced, Israel has embarked on an extensive military operation in the West Bank.

Trump essentially took credit for it in several of his various inauguration speeches. Trump has said he's not confident the ceasefire will hold, echoing Netanyahu's language that this is a temporary ceasefire. He's also declared a rollback on sanctions on settlers in the West Bank. And since the ceasefire was announced, Israel has embarked on an extensive military operation in the West Bank.

There's also power pressure on the UK government to overturn suspensions of arms licences. Just looking specifically at the situation in Gaza. It's not coincidence that Benjamin Netanyahu has been a fairly over supporter of Donald Trump and an agitator for him. The ceasefire is something that is going to be relief to people, but there could be something worse coming.

There's also power pressure on the UK government to overturn suspensions of arms licences. Just looking specifically at the situation in Gaza. It's not coincidence that Benjamin Netanyahu has been a fairly over supporter of Donald Trump and an agitator for him. The ceasefire is something that is going to be relief to people, but there could be something worse coming.

In Ukraine, Trump has, almost just before we recorded, put out an ultimatum on Truth Social demanding an end to the war in Ukraine. And he's issued an ultimatum to Putin saying, we can do this the easy way or the hard way, and the easy way is always better. Just proving once again that he speaks in dialogue that would be removed from a 1980s action film for being... Too poorly written.

In Ukraine, Trump has, almost just before we recorded, put out an ultimatum on Truth Social demanding an end to the war in Ukraine. And he's issued an ultimatum to Putin saying, we can do this the easy way or the hard way, and the easy way is always better. Just proving once again that he speaks in dialogue that would be removed from a 1980s action film for being... Too poorly written.

Like you sort of forget and you're like, yeah, it's like stuff that they would excise from a Jean-Claude Van Damme movie for being clumsy and on the nose. But in terms of the European focus has been so heavily on Ukraine and what comes next. Do you have any sense of... Trump's short-term agenda.

Like you sort of forget and you're like, yeah, it's like stuff that they would excise from a Jean-Claude Van Damme movie for being clumsy and on the nose. But in terms of the European focus has been so heavily on Ukraine and what comes next. Do you have any sense of... Trump's short-term agenda.

I want to ask you from a UK-specific perspective on this. So Keir Starmer, our Prime Minister, and our Foreign Secretary, David Lammy, have sent their congratulations to Trump. David Lammy previously called him evil and a neo-Nazi sympathiser, but has said that we need to embrace progressive realism. I have two questions for you.

I want to ask you from a UK-specific perspective on this. So Keir Starmer, our Prime Minister, and our Foreign Secretary, David Lammy, have sent their congratulations to Trump. David Lammy previously called him evil and a neo-Nazi sympathiser, but has said that we need to embrace progressive realism. I have two questions for you.

The first one is, in spite of this friendly language, do you think that Trump is going to buy it?

The first one is, in spite of this friendly language, do you think that Trump is going to buy it?

You're an advisor to a progressive political leader in office. What advice would you be giving Keir Starmer at the moment? Labour is a progressive political party. Prominent members of that party have said incredibly critical things about Trump in the past. What advice are you giving Keir Starmer now?

You're an advisor to a progressive political leader in office. What advice would you be giving Keir Starmer at the moment? Labour is a progressive political party. Prominent members of that party have said incredibly critical things about Trump in the past. What advice are you giving Keir Starmer now?

Because our kind of economic growth plan could be very directly affected if Trump starts slapping tariffs on left, right and centre.

Because our kind of economic growth plan could be very directly affected if Trump starts slapping tariffs on left, right and centre.

manage that communication when the means of communication are owned by people supportive of demagogues and authoritarians we can talk all we want about what that musk gesture meant on stage but ultimately we're adults we watch the footage you know what you saw i know what i saw but how when you have someone like musk essentially inserting himself in the middle of the means by which you communicate but political leaders communicate with their populace how do you manage that

manage that communication when the means of communication are owned by people supportive of demagogues and authoritarians we can talk all we want about what that musk gesture meant on stage but ultimately we're adults we watch the footage you know what you saw i know what i saw but how when you have someone like musk essentially inserting himself in the middle of the means by which you communicate but political leaders communicate with their populace how do you manage that

You argued that under capitalism, love is also privatised. There are private companies influencing our sort of love lives and romantic lives, right? Maybe now more so than ever, because of things like dating apps, about 4.4 million people in the UK use them, and about a quarter of the users pay for those services, generating around 150 million quid in annual revenue for the companies behind them.

You argued that under capitalism, love is also privatised. There are private companies influencing our sort of love lives and romantic lives, right? Maybe now more so than ever, because of things like dating apps, about 4.4 million people in the UK use them, and about a quarter of the users pay for those services, generating around 150 million quid in annual revenue for the companies behind them.

I understand that these companies exist as private companies, they make a profit, but there is something almost like Mr. Burnsy. Yeah. about turning a profit from people trying to find a partner.

I understand that these companies exist as private companies, they make a profit, but there is something almost like Mr. Burnsy. Yeah. about turning a profit from people trying to find a partner.

I love the book and I thought it was so beautifully written. But one of the things I thought was really interesting about it specifically was the like,

I love the book and I thought it was so beautifully written. But one of the things I thought was really interesting about it specifically was the like,

idea that male loneliness is a huge driver in massive societal problems and you know part of that is the way that capitalism has kind of taken a cleaver to lots of organizations like unions and community centers and social clubs that would have normally been places for men to socialize and in that void the kind of manosphere has sort of stepped into it and that has massive

idea that male loneliness is a huge driver in massive societal problems and you know part of that is the way that capitalism has kind of taken a cleaver to lots of organizations like unions and community centers and social clubs that would have normally been places for men to socialize and in that void the kind of manosphere has sort of stepped into it and that has massive

political ramifications for all of us, right? Like it's a really interesting thing to talk about because the manosphere now is like a massive political problem for us. It's a driver behind Trump's election in the States. It's not really something people want to talk about, male loneliness and the political consequences of it.

political ramifications for all of us, right? Like it's a really interesting thing to talk about because the manosphere now is like a massive political problem for us. It's a driver behind Trump's election in the States. It's not really something people want to talk about, male loneliness and the political consequences of it.

I don't know about you, Coco, but I would say troops on the ground in Ukraine doesn't sound particularly peaceful to me.

I don't know about you, Coco, but I would say troops on the ground in Ukraine doesn't sound particularly peaceful to me.

However, some European leaders weren't quite ready to make the same commitments for boots on the ground, with German Chancellor Olaf Scholz saying it's inappropriate to discuss sending troops in at this stage and that he was a little irritated by the suggestion.

However, some European leaders weren't quite ready to make the same commitments for boots on the ground, with German Chancellor Olaf Scholz saying it's inappropriate to discuss sending troops in at this stage and that he was a little irritated by the suggestion.

Following the meeting between Russia and Ukraine, Trump's given a press conference where he seems to have blamed Ukraine for the war, saying you never should have started it. And if anybody needs a reminder, just to be clear, Ukraine did not choose to invade itself. He also said that they'd had three years to end the war.

Following the meeting between Russia and Ukraine, Trump's given a press conference where he seems to have blamed Ukraine for the war, saying you never should have started it. And if anybody needs a reminder, just to be clear, Ukraine did not choose to invade itself. He also said that they'd had three years to end the war.

There's been a few things recently that have reviewed the kind of tenor of cultural conversation, whether it was about gender, race or class in the kind of late 90s and early 2000s that have...

There's been a few things recently that have reviewed the kind of tenor of cultural conversation, whether it was about gender, race or class in the kind of late 90s and early 2000s that have...

And this, just a half-baked negotiator could have settled this years ago without the loss of much land, very little land, without the loss of any lives and without the loss of cities that are just laying on their sides. And he's also demanded an election in Ukraine before any peace deal can be reached. which would naturally be a sort of prime target for Russian interference.

And this, just a half-baked negotiator could have settled this years ago without the loss of much land, very little land, without the loss of any lives and without the loss of cities that are just laying on their sides. And he's also demanded an election in Ukraine before any peace deal can be reached. which would naturally be a sort of prime target for Russian interference.

One of the potential objectives that various experts in the region have always stated was at the heart of Russia's invasion of Ukraine is to essentially replace Zelensky and install a kind of pro-Putin puppet, in effect, bringing Ukraine under Russian control, a little bit like what Lukashenko has done in Belarus. Obviously, we will be discussing this through the frame of British politics. And

One of the potential objectives that various experts in the region have always stated was at the heart of Russia's invasion of Ukraine is to essentially replace Zelensky and install a kind of pro-Putin puppet, in effect, bringing Ukraine under Russian control, a little bit like what Lukashenko has done in Belarus. Obviously, we will be discussing this through the frame of British politics. And

In this instance, the threat is specifically in various forms, the three people currently talking on this podcast.

In this instance, the threat is specifically in various forms, the three people currently talking on this podcast.

The challenge here is that next week, Keir Starmer is going to have a meeting with Donald Trump and Starmer is trying to position the United Kingdom as essentially a conduit between Trump's America and the European Union. And what I would say is that

The challenge here is that next week, Keir Starmer is going to have a meeting with Donald Trump and Starmer is trying to position the United Kingdom as essentially a conduit between Trump's America and the European Union. And what I would say is that

Hi, this is Pod Save the UK. I'm Nish Kumar.

Hi, this is Pod Save the UK. I'm Nish Kumar.

It's about time that people wake up and smell the dog shit because there's this idea that the US and Europe are mutually aligned in their values, but that does not hold water under the Trump presidency. There is a reason that they had peace talks and did not invite Ukraine. I have no idea how... we steer a course through this.

It's about time that people wake up and smell the dog shit because there's this idea that the US and Europe are mutually aligned in their values, but that does not hold water under the Trump presidency. There is a reason that they had peace talks and did not invite Ukraine. I have no idea how... we steer a course through this.

Sean, thank you so much for joining us on Pod Save the UK. Love in Exile is a fantastic book and it's out now. And if you're listening to the podcast, I'm holding up the cover next to my face. Now, after the break, we're going to be looking into another area affecting our mental health, social media. Should the government be getting tougher on regulating it?

Sean, thank you so much for joining us on Pod Save the UK. Love in Exile is a fantastic book and it's out now. And if you're listening to the podcast, I'm holding up the cover next to my face. Now, after the break, we're going to be looking into another area affecting our mental health, social media. Should the government be getting tougher on regulating it?

Now, the scroll is something we're all afflicted by in our modern age, but how much damage is it actually doing to us? Reports vary, but one thing's for sure, it's proving very difficult for governments around the world to legislate against the effects social media is having on all of our lives.

Now, the scroll is something we're all afflicted by in our modern age, but how much damage is it actually doing to us? Reports vary, but one thing's for sure, it's proving very difficult for governments around the world to legislate against the effects social media is having on all of our lives.

But the very fact that the peace talks happened with Russia and they happened in Saudi Arabia should be a clue to where Trump sees American alignment. America is no longer aligning itself with Europe. It is aligned with these kind of despotic, ethno-nationalist states. He has much more in common

But the very fact that the peace talks happened with Russia and they happened in Saudi Arabia should be a clue to where Trump sees American alignment. America is no longer aligning itself with Europe. It is aligned with these kind of despotic, ethno-nationalist states. He has much more in common

Here in the UK, next week, Parliament will debate a petition that has received over 100,000 signatures that requests we follow suit and introduce similar restrictions for our young people. Joining us now to discuss what our government might do to make social media safer for all of us is Patricia Clark, technology reporter at Tortoise Media. Welcome to Pod Save the UK.

Here in the UK, next week, Parliament will debate a petition that has received over 100,000 signatures that requests we follow suit and introduce similar restrictions for our young people. Joining us now to discuss what our government might do to make social media safer for all of us is Patricia Clark, technology reporter at Tortoise Media. Welcome to Pod Save the UK.

No, there was a moment when Peter Powell... Sorry, it's really made me laugh that he just went, no.

No, there was a moment when Peter Powell... Sorry, it's really made me laugh that he just went, no.

Why did the government backtrack so quickly...

Why did the government backtrack so quickly...

From your perspective as a technology reporter, do you consider that to be useful and good piece of legislation? Because to be honest, the rest of us, a lot of the time, don't know what the fuck is going on in this.

From your perspective as a technology reporter, do you consider that to be useful and good piece of legislation? Because to be honest, the rest of us, a lot of the time, don't know what the fuck is going on in this.

in terms of his outlook on domestic and foreign policy with Mohammed bin Salman, with Vladimir Putin and with Benjamin Netanyahu.

in terms of his outlook on domestic and foreign policy with Mohammed bin Salman, with Vladimir Putin and with Benjamin Netanyahu.

What does practical action look like in this instance? Because I have two cousins that are themselves Australian children. They're 18 and 20. I think 20 is not a child. Well, they're children from my perspective. Anyone under 30 is a child from my perspective at this point. So they're exiting the period that we're really talking about.

What does practical action look like in this instance? Because I have two cousins that are themselves Australian children. They're 18 and 20. I think 20 is not a child. Well, they're children from my perspective. Anyone under 30 is a child from my perspective at this point. So they're exiting the period that we're really talking about.

the vulnerable teenage years, and they are now voting age adults. And I asked them about this, Bill, and I was quite surprised how in favour of it they were. Really? Yeah, they were very much of the opinion that they had observed harms done to them and their friends by being exposed to these things at younger ages.

the vulnerable teenage years, and they are now voting age adults. And I asked them about this, Bill, and I was quite surprised how in favour of it they were. Really? Yeah, they were very much of the opinion that they had observed harms done to them and their friends by being exposed to these things at younger ages.

But the point that they then raised is so much of their social lives are now driven through these apps.

But the point that they then raised is so much of their social lives are now driven through these apps.

That... there's a danger if you just suddenly remove them of actually isolating children further. If we've come to the conclusion, as we all have pretty much, that these things do harm to children, what are the actual practical measures that governments can take?

That... there's a danger if you just suddenly remove them of actually isolating children further. If we've come to the conclusion, as we all have pretty much, that these things do harm to children, what are the actual practical measures that governments can take?

To move on to a different area of online safety, last week there was a multinational AI summit in Paris where 60 countries signed a declaration of inclusive and sustainable artificial intelligence for all. Two countries were notably missing, the US and the UK.

To move on to a different area of online safety, last week there was a multinational AI summit in Paris where 60 countries signed a declaration of inclusive and sustainable artificial intelligence for all. Two countries were notably missing, the US and the UK.

A spokesperson for Downing Street said, we weren't following the US's lead, but that this is about our own national interest, ensuring the balance between opportunity and security. Can you wade through that word, Sue, to discern what the fuck that means? No.

A spokesperson for Downing Street said, we weren't following the US's lead, but that this is about our own national interest, ensuring the balance between opportunity and security. Can you wade through that word, Sue, to discern what the fuck that means? No.

My concern here is that Elon Musk and Google have all warned that tech companies might choose to not launch products in the UK because due to the funding structure for the Online Safety Act, and there are Ofcom plans to charge tech giants fees equivalent to about 0.02% of their global revenue to enforce the laws, which would generate around 70 million quid a year.

My concern here is that Elon Musk and Google have all warned that tech companies might choose to not launch products in the UK because due to the funding structure for the Online Safety Act, and there are Ofcom plans to charge tech giants fees equivalent to about 0.02% of their global revenue to enforce the laws, which would generate around 70 million quid a year.

Since the first discussions about the Online Safety Act, Musk has turned a huge amount of attention and hostile attention to the United Kingdom. Now, am I being... What I usually am, which is a profoundly paranoid man here, to say that Musk's threats and saber rattling from those tech companies is something that maybe is colouring our government's actions in this area.

Since the first discussions about the Online Safety Act, Musk has turned a huge amount of attention and hostile attention to the United Kingdom. Now, am I being... What I usually am, which is a profoundly paranoid man here, to say that Musk's threats and saber rattling from those tech companies is something that maybe is colouring our government's actions in this area.

And is that why potentially they might not be willing to sign up to the AI thing? A separate issue from it being a bit kumbaya, which is a wonderful turn of phrase.

And is that why potentially they might not be willing to sign up to the AI thing? A separate issue from it being a bit kumbaya, which is a wonderful turn of phrase.

Thank you so much for joining us today on Pod Save the UK, Patricia Clarke. And listeners, do check out her work on Tortoise's Sloan newscast. In the latest episode, you actually talk about how Silicon Valley billionaires are trying to live forever, which aligns with one of my personal obsessions, Brian Johnson.

Thank you so much for joining us today on Pod Save the UK, Patricia Clarke. And listeners, do check out her work on Tortoise's Sloan newscast. In the latest episode, you actually talk about how Silicon Valley billionaires are trying to live forever, which aligns with one of my personal obsessions, Brian Johnson.

I think one of the strangest men to ever live.

I think one of the strangest men to ever live.

Son's blood.

Son's blood.

Son's blood. We should say for legal clarification, he doesn't do that anymore. It's fucking weird.

Son's blood. We should say for legal clarification, he doesn't do that anymore. It's fucking weird.

terrifying, full colour.

terrifying, full colour.

Angry, disgusted, dishevelled. The Nishkumar story.

Angry, disgusted, dishevelled. The Nishkumar story.

Thanks to senior producer James Tindale and assistant producer Mae Robson with additional research from Isabella Anderson.

Thanks to senior producer James Tindale and assistant producer Mae Robson with additional research from Isabella Anderson.

Thanks to our engineer Jeet Vasani.

Thanks to our engineer Jeet Vasani.

And remember to hit subscribe for new shows on Thursdays on Amazon, Spotify or Apple or wherever you get your podcasts.

And remember to hit subscribe for new shows on Thursdays on Amazon, Spotify or Apple or wherever you get your podcasts.

Yeah, I mean, Starman needs to look at who Trump is and what he has done. It feels like he's trying to do a deal with somebody that has no interest in doing a deal with him. And as if to underscore this idea that America is no longer aligned with the UK and Europe, J.D.

Yeah, I mean, Starman needs to look at who Trump is and what he has done. It feels like he's trying to do a deal with somebody that has no interest in doing a deal with him. And as if to underscore this idea that America is no longer aligned with the UK and Europe, J.D.

Vance launched a barrage of criticism towards the continent and our country last week at the Munich Security Conference, suggesting that European values suppress free speech and questioning whether our values are worth defending. Here's a clip from the man who is, let's be clear, the Vice President of America.