Matt Higgins
Appearances
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
We all have another level of effort, energy and determination that we can only harness if we cut off our backup plan.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
The most successful people I have, I know, are shockingly tactical. So what I mean by that is like Mark Cuban is the single most responsive person I've ever met on email. And in general, I don't know how he does it. And and usually the response is the word no, but at least it's responsive.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
And each one of them gets involved in a level of work that I think if this audience heard that would be surprised.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
like how granular and the takeaway from that is if you want to be successful like you got to grind out the details there is no presiding at any level there's no set it and forget it unless we're talking about bitcoin compounding in the next 15 years so those are the three so optimism uh i would say you know grinding it out and fearless uh would be the three qualities that come to mind you know what's interesting about that
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
For the bullshit. I always say, to make this understandable for people, I put this out on Twitter a few times, X. I never met a wildly successful pessimist. And people will say, oh, what about short sellers? I was like, that person's optimistic. They're more optimistic than anybody.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
They're going against the grain, and they're willing to risk everything with unlimited downside because they believe that they're right. That's pretty optimistic. Pessimism is somebody who thinks the deck is stacked against them, the system is rigged, all that crap. Please, some of that may be true from time to time, but at the end of the day, we all have the power to change our circumstances.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
The reason I love why we're drilling down on this is I talk about this in this book, this one phrase to always anchor me to what I believe in and what I'm doing. Opportunity arrives before the tipping point of evidence. Right. And that's a simple way of saying like lightning and thunder. You know, you always see the flash of light first. That's the opportunity. It travels.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
Light travels many times faster than the speed of sound. And evidence is thunder. It's unmistakable, but everybody hears it. If you want to be wildly successful, you first have to be an optimist or else you won't even believe you saw the light. You'll be like, ah, it's in my head. Then the ability to act on it is the thing that sets winners apart.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
Good question. Well, I got a book behind me, wrote a book about it. This idea of, you know, burn the boats and commitment. I think the simple answer to that is when I was very young, I had to make a really radical decision in order to escape out of desperate poverty. I grew up on nothing, selling flowers on street corners and eating government cheese and taking care of a sick mom.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
Back to your point about belief, it's why burn the boats is so important because the time to burn the boats is when the opportunity arrives before the tipping point of evidence. When you burn the boats, when everybody knows about it, it's like... Well, it's, you know, it's too late.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
You know, that being said, if you're an innovative and dynamic and optimistic person, when you think it's too late, it's still okay. Like we were just talking about Bitcoin, having a fun conversation. Like it's not too late at all. It's actually quite early.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
I'm urgent. I can be patient. Yeah.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
And I get when I get objections to my book, which I love. Right. I mean, there's a lot of things to object to. It's not safe or whatever. I have to pay the rent. And I have answers for all that, by the way. Anybody here who wants to object, but read the book first.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
But one thing I do get is that always tugs at me a little bit when somebody is like, look, like I hear everything you're saying, but I got no resources. I got no autonomy. I got no power. I'm just trying to survive. I have no opportunity to burn the boats. And I was like, burn the boats or believing in your potential, your ideas doesn't require you to act on them when you have no power.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
Just practice, flex your potential for being right just by acting as if you did move on. If you saw Bitcoin seven years ago and you didn't have the money to invest in it, so what? It's the fact that you saw it, right? And so I'd say to anyone out there who's not in a position because they're making $18 an hour and they're like,
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
and they're in a situation that they don't want to be in and they feel like they have no power to express their ideas. Just practice identifying patterns of the universe and write down what you would have done if you had the power to do something about it. Those reps count. As long as you're being honest, like you would have done it.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
And I think sometimes people dismiss when they don't have the resources to go all in as if those ideas don't count. So When I was in my darkest days and I had no power to act on things, I would still keep score. Like, damn, if I had some power or money, I would do this. And then the day came when I did.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
Anybody out there who's had to deal with the desperation of having a sick parent understands how that just changes your brain chemistry, to be honest. And
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
And it turns out, by the way, you make even worse decisions when you do because you can handle the loss, which is very corrupting. You're like, ah, shit. Million dollars a year on a shit coin. Oh, no. Stupid NFT.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
But anyway, so anyone out there who's listening who feels like they don't have the power or the autonomy, like the reps still count, even if you don't have the capacity to do anything about it.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
Great voice. Although I'm going to end it right now.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
Yeah, and this ties together a lot of the themes that we talk about. It requires a second of setup. But for those that don't know my early background, I was the press secretary to the Mayor Giuliani on 9-11, version 1.0 of Mayor Giuliani, America's mayor. And then I ended up becoming chief operating officer of the World Trade Center site to do the rebuilding.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
So I was there standing under that building on the morning of 9-11 and witnessed horrific things. And fast forward many, many, many years later, I wrote the first check into the Drone Racing League, the sport.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
And as we were inventing all this technology for this sport, how to fly a drone at 100 miles an hour with a goggle with no latency, it doesn't crash into the wall, how to get radio signals in a complex environment with cinder blocks, like all these technological challenges. In that journey, a couple of years in, we had this feeling that like, wow, what we are inventing could be used by terrorists.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
and your decision-making and when i was young i made a radical decision to drop out of high school at 16 to get my gd so i could go to college so i could get a job making eight bucks an hour literally none of this is hindsight bias that was my decision making and everybody had told me at the time you're gonna be branded a loser for the rest of your life and and i had to come up against conventional wisdom to make that decision and it was the single greatest decision i ever made in my life
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
And this is probably going to be the future of warfare with drones. And we should spin off a company quietly, blow the radar and make sure it's built here on American soil. I know this sounds like grandiose, maybe not in hindsight. Right. But at the time. And so we created a company in stealth mode in Alabama called Performance Drone Works.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
And I spent the last seven years fighting for this with my co-founders to manifest this company, tens of millions of dollars, many lonely times when nobody believed in it. And the Department of Defense budget, there was like a tiny fraction for small drones. And then Ukraine happens. Right. And we and we and then, of course, the entire battlefield is changed.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
And then Elon Musk is suddenly treating about drone wars and everything. This is incredible. On September 11th, 2024, a couple months ago, my company was awarded the U.S. Army Program of Record for small drones, medium range reconnaissance. And so in that journey is everything we've just been talking about.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
Because I stood under the Trade Center, it gave me the same feeling like, oh my God, this is going to be the source of terrorist attacks in the future. And the United States must build up a drone ecosystem and get there first before our enemies do. I'm going to do something about it, which is probably the grandiose part, but like, I'm going to do it. And then, okay, phase one.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
I see an opportunity arriving before the tipping point of evidence. This is not just an opportunity. It's a necessity, right? I act on it. I'm alone. There's no money. Investors won't put money in. You know, the company almost goes under. I have to save it, right? There's no programs at the U.S. Department of Defense.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
I've got to act on it, and I have to spend the time alone and endure the skepticism and the ridicule with my fellow co-founders. And then on the other side, we win the program of record. And then it becomes obvious. And so what I love about that is when people see it now, like, well, of course you're in drones. What do you mean, of course I'm in? Like, do you know what it took to build this thing?
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
And so I love that because it's the most important work I've ever done in my life. I mean, maybe competes with this book because the book is helping people reach their potential. But building this company is is the most important thing I ever worked on for the home team. You know, I'm patriot like you never served in the military, but this is my chance to do something. And and I love it.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
I love it because it was bold and courageous. And now we've created an exquisite product that is serving the elite warfighters in this country. That's what I'm working on.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
And I think one of the best things about like people say, what do you really burn the boats for in your life? If you had to summarize, I burned the boats for autonomy, because when you grow up with poor with dysfunction, you have no power to save your family members to help them. You have no power to dictate your life. And I hated it. I'll never go back.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
And so when you get a little bit older, what are you going to do with your autonomy? I now have autonomy, right? Some wealth and and reputation. I could spend it. I would not. I want to be around military members. Nothing brings me more joy and seems objectively incredibly honorable than the U.S. military. And so now I get to use my autonomy to put myself in situations like that.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
I was just in Poland overseas. I've been all over the U.S. on different bases. I finally feel like I know where I want to spend most of my time on. And that's the benefit of all this hard work that is behind me. Matt, can you talk?
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
I can talk about what we did. I mean, this gives you context to how much work goes into this. Like we, we, we had done a million dollars of revenue last year in 2023 after six years of work, whatever the year. Right. But then in the seventh year, we'll probably do $50 million of revenue this year.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
That single decision to drop out at 16, start college at 16, pulled forward my entire career. And Warren Buffett talks about this all the time in the context of money, about compounding. But he doesn't talk about it in terms of career. The sooner you put your ambition into production, the more years you have to reap the exponential gains.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
And we'll eventually end up doing half a billion dollars of revenue in another, you know, whatever, seven years. Because the thing about this work, it's called the Valley of Death for those who don't know how hard it is to build a defense tech company.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
And the reason it's called the Valley of Death, this is a long delta between when you first make a prototype and you have all these early signals like, oh, this is necessary. Government is great at like encouraging you. But the problem is a program of record, which is the thing that sustains you.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
takes years and years and years to go there so there's this big value of death where it's very hard to raise money and uh but once you get a program a record you kind of get to the other side so what i love about our product is called the um c100 it was reverse engineered specifically for what does the warfighter need to call in their own their own air support
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
Like, how do we make something that really is responsive? Whereas I think a lot of things out there are like science projects where like, oh, it'd be really cool if we could do this. Like, okay, that's great. What happens when it rains? You know what I mean? Or like all these practical things. And so we've created an incredible company that marries operators and engineers under one roof.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
And so the product is designed with the warfighter in mind. And so that gives you some context of it. But yeah. I'll tell you, it was no fun when the revenue was zero. And, you know, you don't really know what the future holds. The valley of death.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
No, no, it is. Honestly, like those, it is the worst possible space to invest in. But I didn't invest. I built. Does that, you know what I mean? It's very different. I decided, I decided like I'm going to go all in and, and, and, We are going to put tens of millions of dollars into this. We're going to make it happen.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
I was so confident about the vision, but you can't be confident you're going to win. People think like there's so much criticism of the government. It's inefficient. All these things. True. Elon Musk with Doge. I will say the government is very good, though, enforcing competition and making people do irrational things. And like to get here, we have to beat out the best.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
You know, this wasn't like no one's handing anything to you. You have to make a great product. So you there are others competing for similar contracts. I mean, there were dozens of competing, but not only dozens, the biggest defense companies in the United States competing.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
But we just happened to, because I had the insight and because the company was born of this technology, the greatest experts in small drones in the world, we just happened to make a better product. And I had a year and back to others who are listening to this, who have their own vision for innovating in a category.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
You have a head start against incumbents because you've been thinking about it longer and you've been thinking about it from the outside. Whereas a Lockheed Martin or some other company might be thinking about a million things. We were thinking about one thing. The future of warfare is going to center around small drones. And here's how you make an amazing small drone.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
And that's the only thing we worked on for years and years. And that focus paid off in creating the best drone in this category, 20, 20 pound drone. Yeah. Singular focus is incredibly powerful. Coming from the guys who have total ADD and do a million things. Yes.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
We were just talking about being early on Bitcoin and all these other things. I was early on Matt Higgins. And I was early because I burned the boats on this one crazy radical idea. And so when you try to figure out how does this all hold together, all these companies, these different careers, it's just this pattern playing out over and over again.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
How do you square the fact that you teach at Harvard or you are on Shark Tank? Well, each one I'm killing myself. for that thing.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
It does. And I do think there's a – where you and I are making a distinction that is really important, right? It's not that you have to only do one thing in life. Just make sure the one thing is about the one thing. Right. And then make sure you're allocating enough bandwidth to make a difference. This is where I do struggle. I'm sure everybody listening, you probably struggle. Right.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
I want to be stimulated. I want to have fun. I want to I do want to go ahead and buy, you know, whatever coin we were just talking about. You know, we're human beings. Right. I don't watch Netflix. I like I trade. That's my fun. But but there is energy leakage that I always have to be mindful for. So I spent a lot of mental energy thinking about opportunity cost.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
What is the opportunity cost of this distraction? And I'm willing am I willing to pay that price? If I'm going to spend a half an hour playing around with Twitter and looking for the next big idea, I know that I could be using it out of one of my companies. And a lot of times, as long as it's about a relief valve, an escape hatch, we all need one, then I'm okay with it.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
But I would argue, everyone, the way to strike a right balance about focus is to constantly ask, what's the opportunity cost of the distraction? And I'm willing to pay it. As long as you've asked a question and you're willing to pay it, then it's okay. What makes Matt Higgins happy? Um, it's also cliche. I've number one, I married my best friend, which is great.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
I hang out with like, you know, truly my best friend. And so it makes days fun. I love being around my kids as long as I get that right. I'm okay. And I love travel. I like being uncomfortable. I like being deposited in a place where I can't read the signs and I like seeing the world upside down and I like being stimulated.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
So if I could absent family, I would be on a plane and, and just be in airports all the time. And just like looking at that board saying, where am I going next? You know, I love to be in strange places.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
I see something, I believe in something, and then I figure out how to overcome my anxiety and just go all in.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
I want to give two answers because one I'm sitting with, I just, God forbid, turned 50 recently. And it does prompt a little bit of an existential crisis. So I'll give you the benefit of that. I didn't buy a Ferrari, but I've been probing my decision making. Yeah. The number one piece of advice I would give is that nobody cares.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
And like you and I talked about it off camera, I think, but we spend so much time self-censoring our own ambition in anticipation of how that ambition will be received by a boss or a spouse or the voices in our head. And we don't realize that nobody cares. And like, as you get older, you realize like, oh, winners don't care because they're so focused on what they're doing.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
And the only ones that don't care are not deserving of your time. They're deserving of your empathy, right? Of like, oh, if you really care about me, that's so tragic because you're just, you know, wasting. So number one would have been nobody cared. Number two. would be for those who have born up born with scarcity and who have, have some degree of dysfunction or desperation.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
I do think it does something to your psychology of money, which is everything's about a lotto ticket. There's no way out of your hole. I remember there was no way out of my hole growing up with my mom. So we would, she would spend money on Omaha steaks. Like it'd be so bizarre. We would order these Omaha steaks. And I'm like, why? And the answer was like, tomorrow has no more hope than today.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
So we might as well feel good today. And so there was a lot of ticket mentality that I think I was born was the only way out of this if I went a lot of ticket. And I think that follows you through adulthood. And so my greatest regret with money is that I squandered the greatest gift everyone is given, which is time. Anybody on this call on listening has actually the power to manifest wealth.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
simply by taking advantage of compounding in time. And I did not learn that until half my life was over. And it's like, damn, I squandered that asset. Like we were talking about Bitcoin for some context, right? I mined Bitcoin starting in 2012. And I was early and I mined 290 Bitcoins. And I got disinterested with that idea. I lost hope. I even put in my book, Bitcoin Stupid.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
And I sold that Bitcoin in 2016. And if I had had not a lotto ticket mentality, but born with the recognition that compounding is everything, I would have stuck with the math of Bitcoin back then. And today that position is worth $30 million. By the time I'm 70, it'll be worth almost $400 million. And by the time I died, actuarially, it would be worth a billion.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
So, if you are listening and you have a heartbeat, the greatest asset you still have in your possession is compounding. And I wish I had realized that, but because I was so anxious to escape that I didn't realize that pattern had taken hold of me. So, I would have gone back in time and be like, Matt, you got it all wrong. Just put it in the S&P. Yeah. Dollar, dollar, dollar cost average, baby.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
It just means, I always say this, it's one of my favorite principles. It's hard enough to be right. It's impossible to know when you're going to be right. And I think people confuse those two concepts. They have an idea. They're like, I'm pretty sure self-driving cars are going to happen. And they go all in on something. But they didn't ask, well, when might that happen? And
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
It's probably going to take longer than anybody ever realizes, right? And that's the bottom line. You'll never get the timing of the arrival of your epiphany right. So you need to structure your bets to account for that. The better way to approach a thesis is to do what's called dollar-cost averaging, investing in something at regular, disciplined, formulaic intervals that you never change.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
And so for fun, I was doing this exercise last night. I went to chat GPT and I said, what will be the price of Bitcoin in 15 years based upon the previous rate of return? But let's take the rate of return down to just 5% at the end of the 15 year period. If I were to put $1,000 in every month based upon whatever number you come back, what would that be worth in 15 years?
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
And the number was like staggering. It was like $9 million. And so dollar cost average simply means investing in regular intervals and not feeling like you got to go all in today. You got to go all into that coin or that idea. And it's how – People like Warren Buffett got rich simply through compounding.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
Dollar cost averaging takes the idea of compounding, which is the more time things have to grow by simple inflation or growth rate, with the idea that you put your investment in at regular intervals so that you don't have to worry about timing the market. I've lost so much money and energy and emotional health by thinking I could time things when in reality, I didn't even need to bother.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
I could have just DCA'd.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
Now, somebody, by the way, somebody here who's listening might say, but I'm already 50. I don't have time. Actuarially, you got to 77. You got 27 years, a long time. You have a ton of time. You got a heartbeat. You got time. So I think that's the reason people, as they get older, say, I don't have time. I need the lotto ticket. Like, no, you don't. You still got time.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
Plus, you really don't have time. Then you don't have time.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
Then you can just go on a cruise and eat fucking gyros all day long, whatever it is. And get some Omaha steaks.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
Great. So I'm on Instagram, Emma Higgins. I'm on LinkedIn a lot for those who are on there. I'm on Twitter, same handle. My book is on Amazon. If you read it, you like it, DM me. I burned the boats when I started it back to being very tactical. I was like, what's a way for this to be an enduring classic?
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
And I decided I'm going to DM every single person that ever comments publicly on this book for however long it takes to get to a thousand reviews. And I am 27 away from that. Please put me out of my misery. It's been two years. So if you read that book, DM me.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
And my theory back to doing things other people won't do was that if somebody were to write a review of the book, they probably are more evangelical and they're more likely to pass the word. Books become classics because word of mouth. And so my theory is if I could get more people to review it, it would eventually be an enduring classic and outlive my life. That was the goal I set. And I'm
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
I'm 27 away from achieving it.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
Oh, thank you for having me. This is a great conversation. We talked about things I never talked about. So this was fun. That's the goal, brother.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
We do. There's a great YouTube video, if you want to Google it, anyone out there listening, where there's a Navy SEAL, I don't remember his name, and I should find it out. But he asked the entire audience, everyone, stretch your arms up as high as you can. And everyone in the room stretches your arms up, right? And you watch in the video, everybody stretches. Now stretch an inch higher.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
And everyone stretches one inch higher. He said, I thought you were stretching as high as you can. And the point of that is we all have another level of effort, energy and determination that we can only harness if we cut off our backup plan. And this idea of burn the boats, a lot of people probably know it from Cortez, this idea that he burned the boats and he conquered the Aztecs.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
I'm appropriating this war metaphor in a slightly different way. The boats that I'm talking about are the things that we all carry inside of our heads or in our past that make us hesitate when we have a vision for our own future that maybe isn't being validated by people around us.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
In my case, it was that I didn't know which spoon to use at the dinner table because I grew up so dirt poor I was embarrassed by my background. And that shame would make me hesitate. And so I wanted to write a book to really prove – like exactly what you said, the mere presence of a backup plan is exactly the thing forcing you to need one.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
And that there's tons of science and psychology around what happens when you fully commit to your plan. I always say just, you know, burning the boats doesn't guarantee you'll achieve your dreams, but not burning the boats guarantees you never will. And the thing I hacked into, and it's against my nature. I, I'm the most paranoid risk taker you'll ever meet.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
And so this doesn't come effortlessly to me. But I do think the thing I hacked into is I put myself in situations where I don't have the answers and I reverse engineer the outcome by figuring it out. It's how I got onto Shark Tank, you know, when I had no business being there as a shark. It's how I ended up at Harvard Business School on the faculty as a person with a GED to a JD.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
And like, it's not because I'm so special. It's just because I had no choice. I had a gun to my temple. And my mom was dying in the room next door. And the day I became press secretary, the mayor of New York, she died that morning at 10. Like it was a gun.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
And that gun, though, made me hack into something I never would have discovered on my own because we're conditioned to believe that to play it safe is better than to play bold. And because my mom, God bless her, who always believed that anything that little boy set his mind to, he could figure it out. I landed on this burn the boat strategy.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
And ever since I've been sort of running the same play over and over again.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
The problem is if you're the guy who writes that book, a lot of people are turned off by title and think like, Oh, easy for you to say, or it's reckless. I'm like, Oh no, no, it's not easy. And it's definitely not reckless. It comes with a lot of deliberation, you know, to get there.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
Right, where they fully commit to their own potential. Because we're so comfortable, right? Yeah, it's interesting you say that because when I wrote the book, like, Part of me has this geeky academic brain that would love to write like a treatise on neuroscience. But that's not going to resonate with people. So instead, I chose to take a different approach. I did it through storytelling.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
So in my book, I tried to dissect these moments where people had to sort of overcome their own objections and sort of fully commit. The number one piece of advice I always have for it. If you're not fully committing to what you know is true about yourself or the universe, it's usually because you have an enemy within or without.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
Either somebody in your foxhole, it could be a spouse or it could be somebody who's trying to hold you back or something is happening within that you're afraid to face. The dad who never said, I'm proud of you. You know, the incident that you've been trying to conceal, you know, for me, it was the shame of poverty and like lack of refinement.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
But maybe for you, it's you did something wrong and you're afraid to confront it. And so I always think focusing on the enemy within without identifying what's preventing you, when you face it fearlessly, you're like, that wasn't that big of a deal. Then I feel like you can fully commit. It's usually somebody being blocked by something in my experience.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
And my book is full of these little vignettes of trying to say how the person was blocked. And again, I always talk so openly about my anxiety and imposter syndrome. So I could let people know, like, it took work. You know, I wasn't born this way. Kevin O'Leary was born this way. He's totally self-possessed, but I'm not.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
I love archetypes like that because he was on a CNBC interview. For those who know Kevin O'Leary, he's obviously Shark Tank and he's my colleague. I love the guy. But he went on CNBC and they were ripping him to shreds for FTX, right? And I've never and this is his like home network. And it was such an uncomfortable interview.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
And I called him and I said, Kevin, like, first of all, I'm so impressed you handle that. But also, how do you how do you handle that without feeling, you know, torn apart? He goes, oh, Matt, here's the thing. I just don't give a F. I was like, Kevin, I do. And he goes, that's your problem, baby. Yeah.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
See, the thing for me, it's a little different. I am endlessly intellectual curious to see if somebody might have a point. And so I spent a lot of mental energy being like, do I agree with you? But I don't actually give a shit if you agree with my vision. I don't care at all. I'm happy to be alone sitting with my little Bitcoin mining, you know, or whatever it is. But I do care.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
I am interested when you project your negative energy. I mean, one, it triggers empathy. I know it sounds nuts, but I'm always like, oh, what a waste of your life. That sucks. You're going to wake up one day and realize you wasted your energy directed at me. And two, do you have anything I can learn from this negative energy? And so it's a little more cerebral, but it's a waste of time.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
I would much rather be Kevin O'Leary, but I'm not.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
I mean, it was it was amazing, you know, getting through. I tell the story in the book, too, about imposter syndrome is a great proxy. You know, Damon John is on Shark Tank. Damon grew up like a mile from me. A lot of similarities. He's black. I'm white. That's a big difference. But he worked at Red Lobster. I was at McDonald's.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
Like, so we kind of connect on this, like, who's poorer than who thing, you know? Yeah. I went to the dressing room and I was just honest. I was like, man, I'm so freaked out going on this show. And he was like, why? And I was like, I don't know. I just kind of feel like, what am I doing here? And he would first, I left everybody else. He's like, look what we did. Look where we came from.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
And then he told me the one greatest piece of advice I love sharing to this audience. Like, because you belong here because you are here. And I always say it's like, oh, Plato or Socrates, like you belong here. I think therefore I am. I belong here because I am here. Anyone here ever feels out of place. There is no final arbiter of belonging. No one's going to let you know you've arrived.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
It's for you to realize if you're in the room, you're meant to be in the room. after that little pep talk, the experience was amazing. Everything you see on the show, oddly is the way it is on the show. And so, cause you, I thought there'd be way more scripting and it's like lights, camera action. And also everyone is so rude steps on each other. Like, cause it's real money at stake.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
And when I say rude, I'm being kind of playful, but, Like there's no, there, there, there, there's no like chivalry. Everyone's trying to win the deal. And as a mental exercise, it's fun. Cause when you're home, you're like, I would do that deal.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
And you're like doing the math when you're like trying to sell somebody and make you thinking that you're the one you stay, you know, you should take your money. But at the same time, you're assessing whether you want to do the deal. There's a lot going on in your mind at the same time, which I think is really interesting psychologically.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
Yeah, we shared all the good stuff, though. We got to respect it.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
Like most fundamentally, how do you determine if somebody is truthful and worthy of backing, you know, in 40 minutes?
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
Now it would be fun if that were the case. I honestly wish there was more game theory like that. I do think if anyone ever creates a winning iteration of Shark Tank, it's going to have more game theory about how to screw each other. But the answer is no. I mean, they... Real money, real intent to do the deal, real work.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
I mean, the part that is I'm kind of fascinated by, like I was only on a couple of seasons and I just did Shark Tank Dubai, which was totally trippy, but we can get into that. But if I had been on many years, I don't think I would do it. I don't think it'd be worth it. The amount of energy it takes to Like, look, you do a deal with somebody, you know, you write a check.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
You're also signing up for a job. And that job has got to answer the phone when you're when you're when your founder calls you and things are going terrible. Right. And you've got to monitor your money. Some of these have they have hundreds of deals. And like these aren't the next like chat GBT. Right. You know, they're not having a shark tank if they are. Right.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
Life is good. I feel good. A lot of fun, stimulating stuff going on. We're in this sort of go-go era. Everybody's lost their mind, texting me shit coins all night. It's great. It's good to be back.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
There are that many squatty potties in the universe, right? So I don't know if I would have ever done it for all those years because it's so much work to hustle those deals.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
I mean, it is, but you can't get the brand play without doing the work of investing in the deals and those deals, heavy tax. That's why I admire Kevin O'Leary. Kevin and I do stuff together. We're in a dumpling, a thing called Brooklyn dumpling shop, which we both love that guy worse, man. Like, like he works harder on the deal than I work on the deal.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
And, and, and, and he has, he's more spread thin. He's on TV all the time. So all the sharks really work because there's no other choice to make these deals play out.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
been on the show behind the scenes you know what it is maybe what what comes to mind yeah i would probably say the number one i'm just responding and no one's ever asked me this question so i'm just responding like primitively like what's the first word that came to mind and it was it's optimism each one of those people's fundamentally optimistic that anything is possible and that anyone can do anything that doesn't that didn't say pollyannish which would have been another word right like or naive
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
But they are fundamentally optimistic. And I'm going through Lori and Barbara and Margaret. That's number one. And then two, fearless. Like, I've done deals with all of them. When shit's not going right, they don't panic. I hate investors, even though I can be an investor too, but I'm fundamentally a builder and a founder.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
Investors, they get so panicky and the first one to freak out and they have a very myopic view. Wait, I'm going to lose all my money. I was like, what about that guy who's going to have to go home and face his wife and kids that he squandered the 401k for the business that didn't work out? So what I've found is when things go poorly, they become more fearless and working with all of them.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Burn The Boats - Greatness Has No Plan B With Matt Higgins
And then three, I'd say everyone's a grinder. Mark Cuban, I'll give you an example of what I mean by that. I think sometimes when somebody doesn't have money and they're climbing up, they imagine when you get money, you're like, I'm not going to work. I'm going to be in the Caymans and other people are going to do shit for me. It's not true.