Kendall Rae
Appearances
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Life360 App Helps Police Find Missing 13 Yr. Old: Justice for Savannah Copeland
And this family really did do so much to try and keep Savannah safe. So I'm hoping that we can show them support as they head into the next phases of this case. And speaking of support, I also wanted to make sure that if their family is watching this or if anyone knows the Copeland family and can get them a message, we're going to be doing our best to reach out as well.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Life360 App Helps Police Find Missing 13 Yr. Old: Justice for Savannah Copeland
And like I mentioned earlier, at this point in time, there's very little information available about him and about the circumstances that led to Savannah's murder, but I'll share what we know as of this point in time. According to Michael, Malachi was not only someone that they were familiar with, but also someone that they had welcomed into their home.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Life360 App Helps Police Find Missing 13 Yr. Old: Justice for Savannah Copeland
He was someone that they had sympathy for, someone that they even cared for. Now, the extent of that care is not something that has been too reported on at this point in time.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Life360 App Helps Police Find Missing 13 Yr. Old: Justice for Savannah Copeland
I did learn that he was living with his grandfather and his siblings at the time of the murder, so part of me wonders if their family, Savannah's family, had tried to step up and show him support because maybe he wasn't getting that at home or was going through... you know, emotional struggles, family structural problems, things like that.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Life360 App Helps Police Find Missing 13 Yr. Old: Justice for Savannah Copeland
And I don't know, that's just kind of the vibe I'm sensing. Either way, though, it doesn't really matter. I mean, he was someone that they knew, someone that they cared about, and he was now someone who was responsible for the murder of their child. And that has understandably come with a lot of conflicting emotions for their family.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Life360 App Helps Police Find Missing 13 Yr. Old: Justice for Savannah Copeland
Now, following Malachi's arrest, he was brought to the Richard L. Bean Juvenile Detention Center. And because he's only 15 years old, which is legally a minor, this case has started in juvenile court. But it might not stay there because there was a hearing on November 13th where prosecutors stated their intention of trying Malachi as an adult.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Life360 App Helps Police Find Missing 13 Yr. Old: Justice for Savannah Copeland
And this is something that the Copeland family does support. However, it's Not as simple as just trying him as an adult. There has been and will continue to be a pretty lengthy legal process to elevate this to adult court. But prosecutors are willing to fight for it. A judge will first need to hear the evidence against him. And then, of course, they'll need to evaluate his mental health.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Life360 App Helps Police Find Missing 13 Yr. Old: Justice for Savannah Copeland
And lastly, the judge will have to determine what is in society's best interest. And these are all things that can't just happen overnight or quickly.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Life360 App Helps Police Find Missing 13 Yr. Old: Justice for Savannah Copeland
But I would love to get them a Hope Grant. If you're not aware, my foundation, Higher Hope, offers two different grants. the hope grant is one of them and we're basically seeking to provide one-time financial assistance to victims of a violent crime as well as to their families so we would love to help you guys in whatever way you need we can start that conversation and figure out how to do that
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Life360 App Helps Police Find Missing 13 Yr. Old: Justice for Savannah Copeland
And like I said, the decision to attempt to try him as an adult is something that the Copeland family fully supports and I do too. If this 15-year-old boy is really guilty of what he is accused of, which, may I remind you, is stabbing a 13-year-old girl with a pocket knife and then leaving her there to die, then I believe he should have adult-like consequences.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Life360 App Helps Police Find Missing 13 Yr. Old: Justice for Savannah Copeland
Now, this is a very complex and controversial topic that people feel different ways about. And, you know, I think it really depends on the situation. And ultimately, the purpose of the juvenile system is that there's hope for rehabilitation, of course.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Life360 App Helps Police Find Missing 13 Yr. Old: Justice for Savannah Copeland
And there are cases where kids get into trouble, do some pretty bad things, but are able to turn it around and turn into wonderful, productive members of society. But there are also cases... where kids get into trouble and they continue to go on to be serious offenders and dangers to society.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Life360 App Helps Police Find Missing 13 Yr. Old: Justice for Savannah Copeland
I don't think it's something that you can make a generalization on when it comes to the juvenile system as a whole and how each case can be conducted. It's really... a case-by-case basis, but I really agree with the family that the consequences just need to match the severity of the crime that he committed.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Life360 App Helps Police Find Missing 13 Yr. Old: Justice for Savannah Copeland
And the problem with him going through just the juvenile court is he would likely be released in just a couple of years. On the other hand, if this goes to adult court, he will be facing 15 to 25 years for the charge of second-degree murder, and that would be served primarily in an adult detention center. And
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Life360 App Helps Police Find Missing 13 Yr. Old: Justice for Savannah Copeland
And I'm sure most of you know this, but if an adolescent is tried in adult court, that doesn't necessarily mean that they're going to go right into adult prison if they are found guilty. I mean, in some cases that does happen. And I'm not explaining this fully. It's a very complicated topic.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Life360 App Helps Police Find Missing 13 Yr. Old: Justice for Savannah Copeland
But most of the time they will start their sentence in juvie and then they are transferred when they turn 18. However, most cases that start in juvenile court tend to stay there. And given the severity and true violent nature of this case, it is reasonable to believe that he could be tried as an adult. Although there is no doubt that his defense attorney is going to fight it.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Life360 App Helps Police Find Missing 13 Yr. Old: Justice for Savannah Copeland
In November, his attorney filed a request for discovery, meaning that the prosecution has to hand over what evidence they have against him. And they were given until January 14th to do that. And January 14th was also the date for the next hearing in this case, which was supposed to be when they discussed trying Malachi as an adult.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Life360 App Helps Police Find Missing 13 Yr. Old: Justice for Savannah Copeland
But I'm really confused because I was not able to figure out if this hearing even happened. I mean, most of the time I can find... some article that states whether it happened or if it was postponed for some reason, but I scoured the internet and I could not find anything with any information about this hearing and whether or not it even occurred.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Life360 App Helps Police Find Missing 13 Yr. Old: Justice for Savannah Copeland
At least as of the day I'm recording this episode, which is February 13th. And it had been previously mentioned by prosecutors that they weren't sure if the forensic testing would be finished by January, so... Maybe they just haven't gotten the results back of that and the hearing was pushed back. That's definitely a possibility. I just, I don't know for certain.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Life360 App Helps Police Find Missing 13 Yr. Old: Justice for Savannah Copeland
I do know that the defense said that this is going to take six to eight months to determine. So I'm not sure if they're just trying to stall or if something like this really does take that amount of time. And as of right now, police have not revealed the communication between Savannah and Malachi that led to her meeting up with him. And they also haven't shared a possible motive.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Life360 App Helps Police Find Missing 13 Yr. Old: Justice for Savannah Copeland
And I think I mentioned this last week as well, but for any of you out there who are curious about what we are doing through the Higher Hope Foundation, you can actually check out our impact report for 2024, which we just had launched in September. So this is just what we have been able to do in a short amount of time, thanks to all of your support.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Life360 App Helps Police Find Missing 13 Yr. Old: Justice for Savannah Copeland
And obviously, these are two things that people really want to know. But of course, because we're talking about two minors here, a lot of that information has to be kept private. And when this case first broke, the media wasn't even naming either of them publicly. Eventually, they did release their names, obviously. But at this point in time, they're not even releasing photos of Malachi.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Life360 App Helps Police Find Missing 13 Yr. Old: Justice for Savannah Copeland
So if you're watching this episode, that's why I have not included a photo of him. I have no idea what he looks like. Now, there is one short video of him and he's walking in handcuffs and you can't see his face. And I'm not sure when we'll get to see it. But what I am sure is how emotionally devastated, confused and angry this family is.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Life360 App Helps Police Find Missing 13 Yr. Old: Justice for Savannah Copeland
And if it were any of us, I'm sure we would feel the exact same way. I know I would. And I don't think I could hold the same composure and grace that this family has because anger and rage is definitely not the only feelings that they are feeling and not the only feelings that Michael has displayed.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Life360 App Helps Police Find Missing 13 Yr. Old: Justice for Savannah Copeland
Through their faith and with the support of their community, Michael and their family have been able to find light in this darkness. And the way that he talks about it is really just so beautiful.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Life360 App Helps Police Find Missing 13 Yr. Old: Justice for Savannah Copeland
And in a different interview, Michael did open up about how he feels some anger at Savannah in a way, which I totally understand that emotion. I mean, you've got to just be all over the place emotionally, but he feels angry that she left that night, and he just doesn't understand why. Plus, he has access to all of Savannah's Life360 data, and so he knows...
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Life360 App Helps Police Find Missing 13 Yr. Old: Justice for Savannah Copeland
that sneaking out is not something that she had ever done before, so I'm sure he's just so confused as to why she did it that time and how she was potentially lured out of her home. And just to be clear, I think by no means is he blaming her. I mean, no one's blaming her. She's 13 years old.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Life360 App Helps Police Find Missing 13 Yr. Old: Justice for Savannah Copeland
But I understand his feelings of anger and confusion just not understanding why that night of all nights she left. I think at the end of the day, it's just so shocking that this was so unlike her. But there could be information that's not known at this point that shows her being manipulated and, like I said, lured out of her home.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Life360 App Helps Police Find Missing 13 Yr. Old: Justice for Savannah Copeland
And again, just watching the shows helps us fund the foundation and everything that we're doing. But if you are interested in making a donation to Higher Hope, we would
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Life360 App Helps Police Find Missing 13 Yr. Old: Justice for Savannah Copeland
greatly appreciate it it will allow us to help even more families and like-minded nonprofits and organizations so if you want to learn more about my foundation it will be linked below in the description box and if you are listening to this episode on a podcast platform you can find it linked in the show notes and then before
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Life360 App Helps Police Find Missing 13 Yr. Old: Justice for Savannah Copeland
And I love that faith is something that this family has always been able to come back to, to really lean on. And I've said this before in other episodes and, you know, I'm not religious myself, but I think it is so beautiful that in times like this, people have something like faith to help guide them and help make sense of things.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Life360 App Helps Police Find Missing 13 Yr. Old: Justice for Savannah Copeland
I absolutely recognize the power of faith and the comfort of faith and, you know, what it really means to people in times like this. And also being part of an organized religion and being part of a church can offer so much community to families.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Life360 App Helps Police Find Missing 13 Yr. Old: Justice for Savannah Copeland
And it's really amazing the amount of support that the Copelands have been able to find, not only through their church, but through their entire community. And I loved learning about what's been done to honor Savannah and help this family. So I wanted to share that with you guys today, starting with her cheer team.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Life360 App Helps Police Find Missing 13 Yr. Old: Justice for Savannah Copeland
Because they've done multiple things that are just beautiful and show how caring and mature they all are at their young ages as well to honor Savannah in the way that they have. And the biggest thing that I just loved hearing about was two weeks after Savannah's life was taken, there was a cheer competition that they had all been practicing for, Savannah included.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Life360 App Helps Police Find Missing 13 Yr. Old: Justice for Savannah Copeland
And like I said earlier, she loved being the one to hold that megaphone, so... That was originally going to be part of their routine. And after what happened, though, none of her teammates wanted to take her place, and I totally understand that. That had always been Savannah's role in their routine, and it just didn't feel right for anyone else to do it.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Life360 App Helps Police Find Missing 13 Yr. Old: Justice for Savannah Copeland
So someone had the brilliant idea of playing a recording of Savannah's voice at the start of the routine so it felt like she was still part of it even though she's gone. And for a group of teens who are already going through so much, losing a friend and a teammate... You know, it's just amazing to see that they thought to include her in that way.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Life360 App Helps Police Find Missing 13 Yr. Old: Justice for Savannah Copeland
we even get started I really want to make sure that we can show this family as much support as possible so if you would like to make a donation directly to them you can do so by checking out their GoFundMe which I'll definitely be telling you more about today and that will be linked in the show notes and description box of this episode as well.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Life360 App Helps Police Find Missing 13 Yr. Old: Justice for Savannah Copeland
Through her love of cheer and the love for her teammates, Savannah's voice will always live on. And another beautiful thing that these young girls have done to honor Savannah is host a donation drive to raise money for their local animal shelter because Savannah just absolutely loved animals. She's described as loving all living creatures, even something as small as a spider.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Life360 App Helps Police Find Missing 13 Yr. Old: Justice for Savannah Copeland
So this was just another way for them to give back in her memory. And not only that, they've also created an award in her name that will be given out to someone on the cheer team every year. It'll go to the person who most embodies Savannah's character, which they described as spunky and eager. And it wasn't just her team that has showed this family support, because...
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Life360 App Helps Police Find Missing 13 Yr. Old: Justice for Savannah Copeland
Not long after Savannah was murdered, her family went to a basketball game to support the cheerleaders because like her dad said, once a cheer dad, always a cheer dad. He's such a real one. I just, oh my gosh, Michael is so awesome. But when they were there, the opposing team's cheer squad actually brought their family flowers.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Life360 App Helps Police Find Missing 13 Yr. Old: Justice for Savannah Copeland
It's just, it's, I love hearing young people being so in touch with their emotions and caring for others in this way. It's just so beautiful. Then there's the church, which has also been outspoken in their support for the family. In fact, the pastor's husband actually built this beautiful cross for Savannah, which now sits along the trail where her life was taken from her.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Life360 App Helps Police Find Missing 13 Yr. Old: Justice for Savannah Copeland
And it's blue because blue is Savannah's colors. And that's actually why I have set my background to blue today to honor her in a small way. And I love what they have done with this spot because it's really become a memorial where people will, you know, drop flowers and candy and other things that remind them of Savannah.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Life360 App Helps Police Find Missing 13 Yr. Old: Justice for Savannah Copeland
And the sentiment around this memorial is another huge reason that I felt compelled to tell you about this case. Because oftentimes memorial sites just feel really dark and sad, understandably so. But... their family has spoken about, especially Michael, how he wanted this to be seen as a beautiful place.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Life360 App Helps Police Find Missing 13 Yr. Old: Justice for Savannah Copeland
The support that this family has received from their community and people all across the country has been really beautiful to see and to see how this family has done everything they can to make sure that Savannah is remembered for who she was and as a light for other people going forward as her light will continue on even though she is no longer with us.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Life360 App Helps Police Find Missing 13 Yr. Old: Justice for Savannah Copeland
Obviously, it is a spot where a 13-year-old innocent child was murdered, but at least for himself, Michael has said he's decided not to look at it as a place of tragedy, but rather he wants it to be seen for the beauty of the space. And That's actually why he decided to turn it into a place where people can come and spend their time. And for a few weeks, it was just the cross.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Life360 App Helps Police Find Missing 13 Yr. Old: Justice for Savannah Copeland
But later in December, he and a handful of others transformed that part of the trail into this place that anyone can enjoy, whether they knew Savannah or not.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Life360 App Helps Police Find Missing 13 Yr. Old: Justice for Savannah Copeland
Getting justice for Savannah is obviously everyone's biggest focus right now. But another major goal of theirs is to make sure that Savannah is never forgotten. And their community is making sure that at least one of those two things happens, which I'm pretty sure both are going to happen eventually. I really hope, but they're definitely making sure that Savannah is not forgotten.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Life360 App Helps Police Find Missing 13 Yr. Old: Justice for Savannah Copeland
In mid-November, the Copeland's neighbors wanted to do something to show that they're thinking of them, so they decided to all start putting blue lights on their porch as both a symbol of Savannah and a symbol of support.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Life360 App Helps Police Find Missing 13 Yr. Old: Justice for Savannah Copeland
It's just, it's been very beautiful, emotional, and inspiring, quite frankly. And before I get into telling you about Savannah, who she was and her story, at least what has been reported at this point in time, I have to, as always in cases like this, just say right off the bat that everyone that I'm speaking about in today's episode is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Life360 App Helps Police Find Missing 13 Yr. Old: Justice for Savannah Copeland
And it started with just a few, but it quickly grew to over 50 homes and businesses, and even volunteers with a local business started going door-to-door passing out these blue lights for people to use, something that Michael says that they're very grateful for.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Life360 App Helps Police Find Missing 13 Yr. Old: Justice for Savannah Copeland
Thank you. Thank you.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Life360 App Helps Police Find Missing 13 Yr. Old: Justice for Savannah Copeland
Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Thank you very much.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Life360 App Helps Police Find Missing 13 Yr. Old: Justice for Savannah Copeland
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True Crime with Kendall Rae
Life360 App Helps Police Find Missing 13 Yr. Old: Justice for Savannah Copeland
Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Life360 App Helps Police Find Missing 13 Yr. Old: Justice for Savannah Copeland
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True Crime with Kendall Rae
Life360 App Helps Police Find Missing 13 Yr. Old: Justice for Savannah Copeland
And what happened to her, there are just no words. It is beyond horrific. And... I debated on whether or not to cover it because it's so new. It's still very much developing. There's still a lot that we don't know, but I was really inspired by hearing her family speak, especially her father, Michael, and just his strength and his love for his daughter is...
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Life360 App Helps Police Find Missing 13 Yr. Old: Justice for Savannah Copeland
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True Crime with Kendall Rae
Life360 App Helps Police Find Missing 13 Yr. Old: Justice for Savannah Copeland
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True Crime with Kendall Rae
Life360 App Helps Police Find Missing 13 Yr. Old: Justice for Savannah Copeland
I want to start out by telling you about the amazing little girl that Savannah was. Savannah Grace Copeland, or Van as her family called her, was born in Knoxville, Tennessee on September 3rd, 2011 alongside her twin brother Casey. And that's another reason why this case is just that much more heartbreaking. The fact that she has a twin brother, I mean...
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Life360 App Helps Police Find Missing 13 Yr. Old: Justice for Savannah Copeland
I'm sure many of you know out there that the twin bond is just so special. It's hard to even put into words the connection that twins often, in most cases, develop. And I am just heartbroken for her twin brother. And of course, for their entire family as well. She also has an older brother named Britton and her incredibly active and involved, loving parents, Michael and Amanda.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Life360 App Helps Police Find Missing 13 Yr. Old: Justice for Savannah Copeland
And one thing that I found to be so beautiful when learning about Savannah was her relationship with her father. Her and her father, out of anyone in their family, were just so similar. I mean, they were, like, she was a carbon copy of him in a lot of ways as far as her personality went. Her dad has explained that he's a bit on the introverted side, and so was she.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Life360 App Helps Police Find Missing 13 Yr. Old: Justice for Savannah Copeland
Savannah was always pretty shy and didn't mind spending time alone. She was very independent, and I guess the two of them would be able to spend time together without saying anything. and I think that just shows how special of a connection the two of them had, how well they understood each other.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Life360 App Helps Police Find Missing 13 Yr. Old: Justice for Savannah Copeland
And I mean, obviously, the two of them talked to each other as well, but the fact that they could just be in each other's company and that was enough without saying much, it's very special. Now, as for the things that Savannah really enjoyed in life, there are quite a few, including music, art, and scary movies.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Life360 App Helps Police Find Missing 13 Yr. Old: Justice for Savannah Copeland
But if there's one thing that she loved more than anything else, beside her friends and family, of course, it was tumbling. Like a lot of young girls, Savannah started gymnastics pretty young, and it became clear pretty quickly that her favorite part of it was tumbling.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Life360 App Helps Police Find Missing 13 Yr. Old: Justice for Savannah Copeland
And so, by the time that she got to middle school and she went to Powell Middle School, she had the opportunity to start cheerleading, and that became the obvious choice for her. Her parents even got her private tumbling lessons, and it was always something that she worked very hard at. And cheerleading ended up being the thing that really got Savannah out of her shell.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Life360 App Helps Police Find Missing 13 Yr. Old: Justice for Savannah Copeland
And I think we can all agree that there's really nothing like seeing someone finally find something that they thrive in and getting to watch them in that environment, especially when that thing is what really brings out their true spirit, what breaks them out of their comfort zone and just getting to see them thrive in that atmosphere. It's so fun. It's so cool, especially when they're young.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Life360 App Helps Police Find Missing 13 Yr. Old: Justice for Savannah Copeland
And that was cheerleading for Savannah. Her shyness seemed to just kind of melt away. And it's funny. I love this. Her coaches say that she could run circles around all the other girls, or rather, she would skip circles around all the other girls.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Life360 App Helps Police Find Missing 13 Yr. Old: Justice for Savannah Copeland
They say that she was always skipping around during practice and seemed to be just having so much fun, having this energy about her that wasn't always there. And one of the things that I especially loved learning about her is that she wanted to be the person carrying around the big megaphone during games.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Life360 App Helps Police Find Missing 13 Yr. Old: Justice for Savannah Copeland
It's just so cool that most of the time she was such a shy person, a little more reserved and introverted. But then in that environment, she just, you know, all of that went away and she was having so much fun and the crowd was having fun with her. Her family was super involved.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Life360 App Helps Police Find Missing 13 Yr. Old: Justice for Savannah Copeland
They would go to all of her cheer events where she was cheering on the players of whatever, you know, sport she was cheering for. But her family would be there cheering for her. And her dad even said they had these like big cutouts of her head that they would hold up. And, you know, they were just full on supportive of her in every way.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Life360 App Helps Police Find Missing 13 Yr. Old: Justice for Savannah Copeland
It just makes me emotional thinking about it. And not to mention the community surrounding this family, the people who have fought to make sure that Savannah's story is told and that people are more aware that they are trying to do everything they can to support this family through one of the worst things that could ever happen to you, which is losing a child in the way that this family did.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Life360 App Helps Police Find Missing 13 Yr. Old: Justice for Savannah Copeland
And it wasn't just cheerleading and tumbling. Savannah also excelled in other sports like karate, and she was known for being a great student in school. Her dream was actually to one day go to the University of Tennessee for college and study forensic anthropology, which I think shows you just how cool Savannah was.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Life360 App Helps Police Find Missing 13 Yr. Old: Justice for Savannah Copeland
Hello, everyone, and welcome back to True Crime with Kendall Rae. Thank you so much for joining me today. And if you're new, then welcome. I'm so happy to have you here. So, guys, today I won't sugarcoat it. We are talking about a devastating case. I mean, as they all are. But today we are talking about the murder of a 13-year-old girl, a 7th grader, Savannah Copeland.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Life360 App Helps Police Find Missing 13 Yr. Old: Justice for Savannah Copeland
I mean, at age 13 to already have the career aspiration of being a forensic anthropologist, it's just so... you know, out of the norm of what a seventh grader would say they want to do when they grow up. And God, it's just especially hard talking about victims who had the goal of going into a field like that and helping others.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Life360 App Helps Police Find Missing 13 Yr. Old: Justice for Savannah Copeland
For those who don't know what a forensic anthropologist is, it's someone who studies human remains to help solve criminal cases. Savannah clearly wanted to help other people and make an impact, and she had such an interest in that field. And to have lost her life before she got the chance, it's just so wrong, so unfair, and God, what a loss to society.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Life360 App Helps Police Find Missing 13 Yr. Old: Justice for Savannah Copeland
And that brings me to what happened on October 22nd, 2024. So very, very recent deaths. That morning seemed like any other day for Michael, her father, when he woke up. He always got up earlier than everyone else in the house and left for work before everyone was even up. And when he got to work, he gets a call from Savannah's mom.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Life360 App Helps Police Find Missing 13 Yr. Old: Justice for Savannah Copeland
And she is shocked to find that Savannah is not in her bed as she's waking up all the children in the house. Savannah is not there. So she immediately calls Michael, and as soon as he hears this, he just turns around and goes home right away because this is incredibly unlike her, and any parent would just be terrified in this situation immediately.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Life360 App Helps Police Find Missing 13 Yr. Old: Justice for Savannah Copeland
And when I say that this was shocking to Michael and Amanda, I say that mainly because... Obviously, your child just not being where they're supposed to be is shocking and very scary, but also because Savannah was an incredibly well-behaved teenager. And I will explain more of what I mean when we get into things later on. But this just was so, so out of character for her.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Life360 App Helps Police Find Missing 13 Yr. Old: Justice for Savannah Copeland
Now, I'm sure a lot of you are familiar with the Life360 app. It's an incredible app. I've never used it myself because my child doesn't have a phone yet. She's two years old. But it is a tool that I will definitely be using when that time comes. And it's an incredible resource for parents. So if you don't know about it, definitely look into it.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Life360 App Helps Police Find Missing 13 Yr. Old: Justice for Savannah Copeland
But basically, it's an app that allows users to share their real-time location with a designated group of people. A lot of parents use it to help keep track of their kids and their movements. And what's nice about it is it doesn't just show you where that person is at that exact moment. It also shows you where they've been.
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Life360 App Helps Police Find Missing 13 Yr. Old: Justice for Savannah Copeland
It's almost like a digital trail, and it goes as far as to let you know if they're riding in a car, even if the car isn't moving. So it has a bunch of cool features, and it is something that every family should be utilizing or something like that. I'm not sure what else is... on the app market. But I have heard wonderful things about Life360, and I know that it has helped in numerous cases.
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Life360 App Helps Police Find Missing 13 Yr. Old: Justice for Savannah Copeland
And even though these cases are so difficult to speak about, especially now as a parent myself, I just... It's hard to even imagine being in the Copeland's family's shoes at this time. But I think it's really important that Savannah's story is told, that their story is told, that other parents are made aware of what can happen and how to best keep your child as safe as you possibly can.
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Life360 App Helps Police Find Missing 13 Yr. Old: Justice for Savannah Copeland
And just another safety tip for parents out there, it's also a great idea to use something like an Apple AirTag or something similar when it comes to keeping track of your kids. So just something to throw out there. And luckily, Savannah's parents had the Life360 app installed on Savannah's phone. So of course, that was their first move. check the app and see if they could locate her that way.
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Life360 App Helps Police Find Missing 13 Yr. Old: Justice for Savannah Copeland
And when they first opened the app, what was strange is it showed that Savannah was close by. So they did what, you know, any parent would do in that situation. And they physically went outside to look for her in the areas that the app said that she was. Now, it's been reported that her phone had died, so they weren't able to reach her by calling or texting.
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Life360 App Helps Police Find Missing 13 Yr. Old: Justice for Savannah Copeland
And because of that, they basically had to follow the path that Life360 said that she went and try to figure out where she currently was. But even after following her path according to the Life360 app and also knocking on neighbors' doors and asking them to check their ring doorbell footage or whatever cameras that they had set up at their homes, they were not able to locate her.
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Life360 App Helps Police Find Missing 13 Yr. Old: Justice for Savannah Copeland
And the app was showing that she went missing sometime between midnight and 2.30 a.m., but because her phone had died, they weren't able to find her exact location. And then later that afternoon, they ended up hearing the sound of sirens, and they just knew that she had been found.
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Life360 App Helps Police Find Missing 13 Yr. Old: Justice for Savannah Copeland
The remains of 13-year-old Savannah Copeland were discovered not too far away on a dirt trail behind a community pool near Powell High School. She was discovered by someone who was just walking that path, and it was clear by her injuries that she had been stabbed, and unfortunately, there was nothing they could do to save her at that point.
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Life360 App Helps Police Find Missing 13 Yr. Old: Justice for Savannah Copeland
And a pocket knife is ultimately what authorities say was used to take her life, and it's unknown how quickly she succumbed to her injuries, but it's just... God, it's horrific to think about what that must have been like for her.
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Life360 App Helps Police Find Missing 13 Yr. Old: Justice for Savannah Copeland
But this was a nightmare that they didn't wake up from. Their beautiful 13-year-old daughter, who they were just cheering for in the stands of a basketball game literally the night before, was gone. And it turns out that the person responsible was someone that they knew. 15-year-old Malachiya Lamar Harris was arrested and charged with second-degree murder.
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The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
And a lot of it was trials that I had started, you know, five-day trials, 30-day trials even, and then just forgot about and just kept paying for for literally no reason. But thanks to Rocket Money, I can see all my subscriptions in one place and cancel the ones that I'm not using anymore. And now I'm saving money. If you haven't heard of Rocket Money, I'm telling you, you are missing out.
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The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
Rocket Money is a personal finance app that helps find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and helps you to lower your bills so that you can grow your savings. You can see all of your subscriptions in one place, know exactly where your money is going, and for ones you don't want anymore, Rocket Money can help you cancel them.
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The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
Rocket Money's dashboard gives you a clear view of your expenses across all of your accounts. You can easily create a personalized budget with custom categories to help keep your spending on track. You can get alerts if bills increase in price, there's unusual spending activity, or you're close to going over budget. The Bye. Bye. Bye.
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The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
Now, there has been very little said publicly from their family, and I completely understand why and respect that fully. But we know that they did mourn his loss when they thought that he drowned in the lake. And just imagine what it must have been like for them when they found out that he was alive and had been planning this as far back as January when he took out that life insurance policy.
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The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
That alone is seven months of planning that we know of. And I obviously can't speak to how they felt about all this, especially because they haven't spoken themselves publicly. But I think we can reasonably assume that they were, you know, at the very least hurt, angry and confused.
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The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
And again, just as a reminder, all of his children are middle school, high school age, so they fully know what's going on. And just imagine having to process that type of abandonment at that age. And not that leaving your wife and kids for another woman is ever the right thing to do, but...
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The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
It definitely would have been a lot easier for them if you had just told them what you were going to do and didn't try to convince them that you died. I guess I just don't understand the point. Like, if this is all about just going and being with someone else... then whatever, go be with someone else, but there's no reason to fake your death and put your family through this type of trauma.
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The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
And I've covered other cases like this in the past where the motive was very clearly insurance fraud, but that's not really what was going on in this case. I mean, you could definitely make the argument that he attempted to commit insurance fraud, but he didn't actually benefit from the policy. The money from that policy would have been going to Emily, so it's almost like he got the policy to...
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The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
I don't know, maybe it made him feel better about leaving them. Maybe in his mind it was sort of like, oh, I'll be dead and they'll be suffering and in so much pain from that, but at least they'll have $375,000. That's all they were worth to you? You couldn't have made it a higher policy? Like, your family wasn't worth at least a million dollars to you?
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The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
I mean, no matter how you slice it, this whole thing is 50 shades of fucked up and investigators felt the same. And they wanted to get answers from the man himself, not just for their own sake, but for the sake of this poor family. So in a press conference on November 8th, the one I played a clip from earlier, the sheriff thanked their family and then made a very emotional plea directly to Ryan.
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The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
Alright, like I said, today we're going to be discussing Ryan Borgwart. And honestly, there isn't that much known about him before all of this unfolded. However, we do know that he was living with his wife and three kids in Watertown, Wisconsin, and we also know that he had his own woodworking business.
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The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
And I just have to say that this sheriff, Mark Podol, is such a genuinely good human being. He led a few press conferences and you can just tell how dedicated he is to serving his community. And that's what makes me so angry is there were so many good people involved in trying to locate Ryan and trying to get this family answers and they were just screwed over by a liar.
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The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
There were countless liars. resources that were just wasted on ryan between all the time energy not to mention money that was put into trying to look for him and green lake county is actually going to be seeking somewhere between 35 000 and 40 000 in restitution because that's what they estimate they used up in their efforts and that doesn't include the 10 000 that he cost keith
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The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
And this is no surprise considering what a great guy Keith is, but he had a very level-headed and reasonable reaction to all of this. He said that when he first found out that Ryan was alive, he actually just felt relieved. Which, if I were in his shoes, I'd be just angry. But a lot of it wasn't because Ryan was alive, but it was because he had been second-guessing his capabilities for weeks.
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The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
He could not figure out why he couldn't find his body, so to find out that he was never in the water...
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The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
mean i get that i probably would have been relieved too and then his second reaction was just pure sympathy for ryan's wife and his children and i think we all feel that way especially people who were directly affected by this case or in the community and had been following it closely worried about ryan the whole thing is just maddening it's baffling and it has just been quite a roller coaster for everybody and then at one point people were very confused because
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The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
And of course, as you guys know, I typically like to share as much background on victims as possible, but Ryan is not a victim. In fact, he is far from it. His wife Emily and his three children, they were the true victims in this case.
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The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
This video resurfaced a TikTok actually from this girl in San Diego who was doing an ask me for free advice video. She was standing out on the boardwalk with a sign and basically people could go up to her and ask her for advice. I mean, I'm sure you've seen something like this.
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The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
But since this is something that they're still going through personally and has been very traumatic, I don't want to get into a bunch of details about them personally. And just for the sake of their privacy, I think it's just not necessary. And they've expressed not really wanting to be part of the media coverage.
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The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
So as I'm sure you can tell, when this resurfaced, people thought that this guy was Ryan. I mean, I thought it was Ryan when I first saw it, but police did end up confirming that it wasn't him. But yeah, between how he looks and the whole woman in Uzbekistan thing, I can definitely see why people thought it was Ryan.
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The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
But at this time, there was a bigger question looming over everyone's mind, and that was whether or not he broke any laws, because technically, it's actually not illegal to fake your own death. However, when people have tried to fake their own deaths, I mean, at least the ones who have been caught, most of them end up breaking the law in the process.
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The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
And in this case, a lot of people believe that Ryan did in fact break the law. And there were two charges initially that people thought he might end up facing, and one of them was obstructing an officer and the other was attempted insurance fraud, obviously.
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The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
In the state of Wisconsin, it's illegal to, quote, "...knowingly give false information to an officer or knowingly place physical evidence with the intent to mislead officers in the performance of their duties." Which clearly is word for word what Ryboy did. And then there's the attempted insurance fraud, which a lot of people think that he did.
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The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
After all, he did get that life insurance policy knowing that it would be needed under false pretenses. He also got a second passport after he said his first one was lost or stolen when it wasn't. But I'm not sure if that's a crime. Either way though, he clearly did not execute this legally.
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The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
So the next big question on everyone's minds is will Ryan be brought back to the United States so that he could potentially face these charges? And basically, even though nobody knew where he was, it was speculated that he was in Uzbekistan, of course, with this other woman. But it turns out that the U.S. doesn't have an extradition treaty with Uzbekistan.
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The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
So people were curious if he was just going to get away with it. And it seems like investigators were wondering that too. Since they didn't know where he was, it was kind of up to Ryan if he wanted to return. And you also have to keep in mind how expensive and time-consuming it would be to execute an international manhunt. So I'm
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The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
Sure, they had to sort of weigh out if his crimes were worth that effort and those resources. But of course, they definitely wanted to see him get his ass back to the United States. But instead of taking a more forceful tactic, they decided to try to appeal to his emotions.
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The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
In a press conference on November 21st, we found out that law enforcement had been in contact with Ryan and that they were, quote, pulling at his heartstrings to try to get him to come back home. And finding out through this press conference that they were, in fact, in contact with him was huge.
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The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
In this press conference, Sheriff Podol explained that on November 11th, they were able to get in contact with Ryan through this, quote, Russian-speaking woman. They ended up asking him a number of personal questions to confirm his identity, and they also asked him to provide a video of himself to prove that he was safe. And surprisingly, he did it.
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The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
What I will say, though, is his children are around middle school to high school age, meaning they are old enough to understand what's going on. Which if you ask me, that makes what Ryan did so much worse. I mean, it's horrible no matter what age a child is when they experience something like this, but you guys know what I mean. So what exactly did Ryan do?
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The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
And the audio is a little muffled, so it's kind of hard to listen to, but take a look.
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The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
And I think we can all agree that RyRy isn't looking too happy in this video. He actually looks pretty miserable, which is ironic considering he abandoned his whole life to allegedly start some fairy tale with a chick that he met on the internet, but I'm sure the miserable part of it came from knowing that he was caught.
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The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
And a lot of people questioned if she was real, like maybe he got catfished or something. But investigators did confirm that they were able to find him through her. So, I mean, I personally believe that she is real. And it's pretty crazy, but when they were reviewing the contents of his laptop, they actually found a picture of her and that's how they were able to find him.
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The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
And apparently, they had been in communication with him every day since November 11th. Which sort of, and I don't know if this is just me, but it kind of makes me think that maybe he wanted to come home because he could have just easily ignored them. Like if he was happy with his choice and he was with his new lady out in Uzbekistan. Would he have really kept up that contact with investigators?
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The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
I don't know. Or maybe it just came out of fear. Maybe he knew the jig was up and they were going to find him anyway. And he just kind of gave up. I don't know. There's a lot we still don't know. But there is actually a lot we do know. And this is insane. But he ended up telling investigators exactly how he tried to pull this off.
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The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
Well, it all started on August 11th, 2024, and it was a Sunday. And like they normally did, Ryan went to church with his whole family. And then later that afternoon or into the evening, really, he was planning on going fishing. Specifically, he was going to drive an hour north to go fish at Green Lake, which is in Green Lake, Wisconsin.
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The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
Now, I'm going to touch more on all of that here in a bit, but isn't that just wild? Clearly, this dude thought of everything down to the lake that he was going to do it in. And Ryan also told them that he did this because he had, quote, personal matters and thought this was, quote, best. But a lot of people, including myself, believe that this other woman motivated the whole thing.
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The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
I mean, in my opinion, it's pretty obvious that that's why he did it. But what was wild to me is he even said, and I don't know how genuine this is, that he felt bad about the amount of time and hours and resources that people spent looking for him. Which I'm kind of like, dude, what did you expect? You really thought you were just going to drown and people were like, oh, too bad.
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The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
Like, no, of course your family is going to want to recover your body and the community as a whole. What did you think this was going to be like? And it's so weird to think about with how much planning he actually did that he clearly didn't think a lot of the aftermath through.
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The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
He just thought of how he was going to do it, but didn't think a lot about the consequences for others, which shows you he's a real selfish piece of shit, in my opinion." But I do have to give him the smallest little bit of credit for at least coming back, which he did.
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The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
He came back completely on his own accord on December 10th and was immediately booked into the Green Lake County Jail on a misdemeanor charge of obstructing an officer. He then appeared in court the following day where he told the judge that he would be representing himself. He said that he only had $20 in his wallet and couldn't afford an attorney. And when a judge was like,
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The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
you know, you can get one for free, Ryan still said that he was just fine doing it himself. The judge did ask during this hearing that the media not portray this family just out of respect for their privacy, which is definitely the right call. And you would think that they wouldn't give him bail considering...
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The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
He's a pretty big flight risk in my opinion, but no, he was actually given a $500 signature bond, which is a type of bail bond that allows a defendant to be released from jail without paying it. It's basically an agreement that the defendant will show up in court, and if they don't, they end up owing the money. And this was also weird to me, but the judge didn't even confiscate his passport.
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The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
But at the same time, I don't think Ryan would be going anywhere considering he was the one who turned himself in, but you never know considering his past. and in a press conference earlier that day, Sheriff Podol gave a little more insight into Ryan's return, including the fact that he came home voluntarily, and he even gave them a heads up before he arrived.
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The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
So he has been cooperative to some degree, and I wonder if that was the guilt talking, you know? I mean, who really knows what was going through his mind, but if I had to guess, the guilt really got to him. I feel like you don't plan this elaborate scheme for that long and then just end up turning yourself in unless you feel incredibly guilty.
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The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
What is interesting though is he is pleading not guilty to that misdemeanor charge. So I guess at the end of the day we don't really know why he came back and told investigators everything and he really did tell them everything. The criminal complaint was released to the public in mid-December and it shed a ton of insight into Ryan's plan and it's
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The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
I wanted to wait until there was enough information to do a full deep dive, and this is actually a case that I had been covering just here and there, little updates on my other podcast, The Sesh, which is very different from this show. It's, um... A little bit unhinged, but in the best way. It's really fun. We talk about a variety of topics. We play games.
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The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
And because Ryan is a very outdoorsy guy, Emily likely didn't think twice about this trip. He was just going to go kayaking up north, fish for a couple hours, and then come home late that night. However, despite a text that came in from him at 1045 saying that His plan was to paddle into shore and then drive straight home.
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The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
insane you guys so i want to walk you through it starting with the morning of august 11th so once again we know that ryan started his day by going to church with his family i just thought wow wow i mean i'm pretty sure in the bible i'm not a religious person but i i know it actually says that lying is a sin right
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The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
But anyway, Ryan explained that after church, he went home and he briefly packed up the things that he would need for this fishing trip. But when he left, though, he didn't go right to the lake. He first went to his woodworking shop where he had actually been storing an electric bike that he purchased a few weeks prior.
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The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
And I'm guessing he purchased an electric bike because it would have allowed him to haul ass out of there as quick as possible. He told investigators that he was worried that the cameras would see him loading the bike into his trailer. So he backed it all the way up to the building so that no one could see him loading it in.
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The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
And then from there, he made a quick stop at Wally World where he said he intended to get a life jacket. However, that Walmart didn't have any. Now, to clarify, he did already have one life jacket, but he told investigators that he had left it out by the kayak to make his drowning seem more believable.
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The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
So the reason he stopped at Walmart was so that he could get a second one that he could use when he paddled back after ditching the kayak out on the lake. But anyway, after going to Walmart, Ryan stated that he then went to a friend's house. He said that he knew this friend wasn't going to be home, and he went over there to load up on stove pellets.
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The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
And before you ask, I have no idea why this man needed the stove pellets. No clue on that one. But then he left his friend's house and that's when he finally made his way to Green Lake, arriving sometime around 10 p.m.
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The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
Ryan told them that he was kind of freaked out when he got there because there was a squad car in the area, but they eventually moved and he continued on with his stupid little plan.
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The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
And as you heard the sheriff explain earlier, he then paddled out to what he thought was the deepest part of the lake and tossed his phone in the water, which made sense considering that his phone last pinged around midnight and it looked like it was in the lake.
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The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
He then began inflating a child-size raft, which he got into, flipped his kayak, dumped the fishing rod and tackle box, and then paddled that little raft back to shore. And after he got to shore, Ryan explained that he ended up getting about hip-deep in the muck which made it difficult to get out of the water.
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The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
What he didn't think about, though, is now he's going to have a muddy trail of footprints right behind him coming out of the lake. He actually told investigators that he was worried that they would be able to follow his footprints, so he did his best to wash them off the road. And this is where it gets even crazier.
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The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
Ryan then proceeded to ride his e-bike 70 miles through the night to Madison, Wisconsin. Thank you. Thank you. to the I don't know what to do. , ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... .... BG.
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The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
Ryan never showed up, which, of course, if your partner doesn't come back home after something like a fishing trip, you're going to get concerned pretty quickly. And she did what any other wife would do. Emily reported him missing. And as soon as she did, there was no hesitation from law enforcement to try and find him.
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The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
And by 5.32 on the 12th, so the next day, the Green Lake County Sheriff's Office was notified of the missing kayaker, and right away, they sent out deputies to go over to the lake and try and locate him. And while they didn't find Ryan, they did find his car and his trailer.
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The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
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The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
leading them to believe that something happened to him out on the lake and less than an hour later they made a shocking discovery out on the water they ended up finding a capsized kayak in the western part of the lake which obviously doesn't look good now for some context green lake is actually the second biggest lake in wisconsin by volume and the deepest natural lake inland in the state.
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The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
At its deepest point, it reaches a depth of 237 feet. It covers a total of 7,340 acres, and it has over 27 miles of shoreline. So clearly, they knew right away what a big undertaking this was going to be. I mean, it can't be stressed enough how difficult it would be to find a body in that lake, but that's exactly what they tried to do. Life doesn't happen biweekly, so why should payday?
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The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
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As soon as they found that overturned kayak, there was an all-hands-on-deck effort when it came to looking for Ryan, which included bringing in outside resources like Bruce's Legacy.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
And I'm pretty sure that I've mentioned Bruce's Legacy on this show before or one of my other shows, but if you haven't heard of them, Bruce's Legacy is a non-profit that aids in search and recovery operations for drowning victims. They often work closely with law enforcement, and I really can't praise them enough for the incredible work that they do.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
It's a lot of laughing and more of the lighthearted side of things. I host it with my cousin. So if you're interested in checking it out and, you know, getting to know me on a more personal level, then I will have that linked below. But yeah, we talked about this case quite a bit and it blew me away. This guy we're going to be talking about, Ryan Borgwart. Damn, do I have a lot to say about him.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
It was started by Keith Cormackin after losing his own brother Bruce to a drowning incident back in 1995. So he has now dedicated his life to helping other people recover their loved ones. And on the morning of Tuesday, August 13th, he and his team were called in to help look for Ryan.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
And one of the things that they're able to do is bring in this specialized sonar equipment that scans the bottom of the lake in order to see if there's a body down there. And obviously, like I just explained, this is a huge lake, so they knew that this was going to take a lot of time.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
But based on where they found the kayak, they figured that his body couldn't have gotten much further than the western part of the lake, which, again, is still a huge area to search. So, of course, they got that sonar up and running. And meanwhile, drones were flown above the water and deputies were looking along the shoreline. and they ended up making a pretty big discovery just that morning.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
Around 9.30 a.m., two fishermen were casting nets along the bottom of the lake, and they ended up pulling up a fishing rod, and it ended up being a fishing rod that belonged to Ryan. According to his wife, she was able to confirm it was his.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
And then, later that afternoon, around 3.30, someone called in reporting that they had found a tackle box, and when they opened it, they found several items, which included... a wallet, a driver's license, and keys as well, all of which belonged to Ryan.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
And all of these findings, the tackle box, the fishing rod, the kayak, and the car, ultimately helped confirm the belief that he must have fallen into the water. So for the next 54 days, the efforts to locate the missing 45-year-old father of three continued. And I really can't emphasize enough just how intensive this search actually was.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
On August 24th, they ended up bringing in cadaver dogs and dive teams, and the conditions on the water were far from safe. I mean, Green Lake is known for being super mucky, so these divers had essentially zero visibility in the water. which of course is just dangerous on its own, not to mention how deep they had to dive in order to search for him.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
But all these people that were spending their time and putting themselves at risk were happy to do it because it was important to everyone that Ryan's family had that closure. And Keith, with Bruce's legacy, was especially invested in finding his body. And he said he spent somewhere around $10,000 in expenses between repairs and replacing equipment.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
And he even said that this whole thing was keeping him up at night because he could not figure out why he was not finding Ryan's body. And Keith is truly a professional at what he does and he's passionate about what he does. So not finding a body was making him start to question himself and his abilities.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
He spent 23 days of his life out on that water with sonar equipment and just as many days reviewing that data. Yet nothing pointed to Ryan being in the water. And the divers were pretty much saying the same thing. Even with their expertise, they came up empty-handed time after time. And they were... I mean, everyone was becoming very frustrated.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
And once they got to that eight-week mark, they were all sort of looking at each other like... Is he actually in the water? Maybe he's not even out there. But of course, it was confusing to them because all of the early evidence was suggesting that he was in that water. But by this point, they just felt like they would have found him if he was.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
Hello everyone, and welcome back to True Crime with Kendall Rae. I hope you guys are all having a great day. Thank you for joining me today, and if you're new to the show, then welcome. I'm so happy to have you. So guys, today we are getting into a case that I have been wanting to talk about for months.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
And so on October 7th, after deciding to take their investigation in sort of a different direction, they made a huge discovery.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
And he really pisses me off. Ryan is someone who tried to fake his own death, stage his own disappearance, and just abandon his wife and children and leave them to think that he just died.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
And when he says Ryan's name was run on August 13th, he means that one day after he was reported missing, Ryan's passport was used. Yep, you heard that right. A literal day after he was reported missing, his passport was used at the Canadian border. And of course, this turned everything they thought they knew up until this point upside down because now they weren't looking for a body.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
I know this is different than the typical case I cover on this show, but honestly, we've been covering a lot of heavy ones lately, and I just needed something a little bit more on the lighter side, and I think you guys probably do as well. I always see that feedback from you that something like this is a little...
True Crime with Kendall Rae
The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
They were looking for a living, breathing human being who likely, and I think pretty obviously at this point, faked his disappearance. So to try and figure out what the hell is going on here, investigators turned to his digital footprint and they ended up finding some crazy shit, all of which pointed to the fact that Ryan had meticulously planned his disappearance for months.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
Here's what a forensic analyst was able to find on Ryan's laptop.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
They saw that Ryan obtained a second passport, replaced the hard drive on his laptop, cleared his browser history on the day he disappeared, synced his laptop to iCloud on the day that he disappeared, took photos of his original passport, inquired about moving funds to a foreign bank, changed his email address associated with his bank on the day he disappeared, communicated with a woman in Uzbekistan.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
And I bet you guys can guess this one. He acquired a $375,000 life insurance policy and purchased an airline gift card. And that second passport was purchased after he reported the original one as lost or stolen. Mind you, investigators ended up finding that other original passport very easily with the help of his wife, Emily. So yeah, the picture is starting to get a lot clearer.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
Ryan never drowned in that lake. He's completely staged his disappearance. From what they were finding, it looked like he had faked his disappearance, or really his death, in order to be with this woman that he had been communicating with online. The problem, though, is they didn't know where he was. They figured that he was probably somewhere in Europe, but they didn't know exactly where.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
The FBI and Homeland Security even got involved, so that just tells you how seriously they were taking this. And I'm glad they did, because what Ryan did is... just so fucked up on so many levels.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
Homie was over here doing the absolute most, quite literally, for a woman that he had just met over the internet, and we don't know what was said between them, actually, but whatever it was had to have been enough for him to think it was worth giving up quite literally everything. And not only just giving up his wife and kids, but he was willing to let his wife and children think that he died.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
I mean, to me, that is just... There's no other word for it other than evil. He and his wife had literally just celebrated their 22nd wedding anniversary in July. And, you know, he has gone through the births of all three of his children and raising them. And I don't know the details as far as how involved he was in their life.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
you know refreshing in the true crime space in the weirdest way because i mean it's still like i said infuriating and the lengths that this guy went to it's just unbelievable but um definitely really interesting to see how people tried to stage their own disappearances and you know we've talked about similar cases to this in the past and you guys have always really enjoyed learning about them and i've also had a lot of feedback and opinions and so i'm really looking forward to reading the comment section on this one
True Crime with Kendall Rae
The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
But it's just how could you do that to your family, to your wife and to your children to let them think and suffer with the images of you drowning? and the mourning and grieving that they would have to do for years, and you're just completely fine with them experiencing all of that. I mean, just think about it. Just picture this.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
That morning, as I mentioned, Ryan was at church with his children and his wife. He's sitting there, you know, doing whatever you do in church. And meanwhile, he's thinking about what he is planning to do to his own family later that evening. I mean, how do you function like that? Oh my God, liars just blow my mind, especially at this level.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
So if you've been listening to my show for a while, you know how much I truly love Rocket Money and what a lifesaver it has really been for me. We have saved so much money since our family started using Rocket Money. And the biggest thing for me was the ability to cancel unused subscriptions easily because I don't want to deal with customer service.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
The Man Who Faked His Death for a New Life With His Mistress
I didn't want to face reality about how much money I was wasting and didn't want to take the time to actually do it myself. But once I downloaded Rocket Money, I realized just how much money I was actually wasting on subscriptions.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
They were skeptical. And I totally understand why they felt that way. I mean, ex-boyfriend finds a little piece of missing girl's credit card, the first big piece of evidence. It seems like a crazy coincidence. But... That's how he said it happened.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
And when he spoke to law enforcement, he explained that he and AJ were still friends, but it had actually been months since the two of them had seen each other in person. I guess he had reached out to her when she was home from break and they had talked about, you know, seeing one another, but... They just never ended up hanging out.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
And even though investigators didn't have much to go off at this time in the investigation, they really started to turn their attention to him. And not just because he found a piece of the credit card, but also because of things that her stepfather, Wes, was telling them. Life doesn't happen biweekly, so why should payday? The money that you earn can be in your hands today with Earning.
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A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
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A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
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True Crime with Kendall Rae
A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
I've been kind of in a mood lately, so maybe that's why I'm even more angry than normal. But this one just really sent me over the edge. I was completely blown away. So I want to get into it. Before I do, though, I did want to mention that our Higher Hope Impact Report is now available on our website, higherhope.org. And that's for 2024, which we did launch the foundation in September.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
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True Crime with Kendall Rae
A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
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True Crime with Kendall Rae
A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
Tips are voluntary and don't affect the service. See the cashout user agreement for details. Service is not available in all states. According to Wes, Corey was obsessed with AJ and had been ever since they broke up. And he straight up told investigators that they needed to look into him. And by the next day, investigators started to believe him.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
I mean, he is her stepfather and what he's telling them sounds concerning. And that wasn't the only reason that they were becoming more and more sus of Wes because the next day on March 6th, another one of AJ's guy friends, a guy named Andre Barr, contacted police after he discovered AJ's jacket hidden behind a couch cushion at Corey's house. And it wasn't just any jacket of hers.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
It was the jacket I just talked about, the jacket that she was last seen wearing. And this jacket literally has her name embroidered into it. And when Andre was there, he didn't tell Corey that he saw it. He just came up with an excuse to leave and then called the police. And so at this point, alarm bells are going off like crazy for investigators.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
I mean, here this guy has just found her credit card the day before, and now her jacket that is embroidered with her name, the one that she is last seen wearing, is found behind his couch. Although he had told them that the two of them hadn't seen each other for quite some time, for months. Why did he have her jacket? And more importantly, why was it stashed behind his couch?
True Crime with Kendall Rae
A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
OK, so this is not looking good. Investigators are starting to think maybe this is some type of trophy, like he had hung on to a piece of the day in a way, which is something that criminals will do to kind of memorialize in their minds or like have a what's the word like a trophy is really the best way to describe it to criminals. Remember what happened when they committed their crime.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
So, of course, they end up bringing him into the station. And during that time, a team of officers executed a search of his home. And the jacket was exactly where Andre said it was. And so that led to a very heated and intense interrogation. I mean, at one point, they even outright accused him of killing her. They even brought the jacket into the interrogation room.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
And he had a very physical reaction to it. He was obviously just shocked. He jumped back and became incredibly upset very quickly seeing that and seemed confused. He fully denied any involvement and he just kept saying that he didn't have anything to do with it and he had no idea how the jacket got there. And because it wasn't technically proof of anything, they ended up having to let him go.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
And Wes was very unhappy about that, turned into a big ordeal. And that's the whole part of this that I need to explain. Right after AJ went missing, her friends, family, and community did everything that they could to try and find her. Flyers were made, volunteer search efforts were conducted, news outlets were being reached out to, they even held a balloon release.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
So it was only four months worth, but I'm really proud of everything that we did. And we're being super transparent about where everything is.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
And the one person that was really seemingly leading it all, was really the public face of it all, was her stepfather, Wes. He was doing a lot of the search organizing, raised $3,000 for the reward money, and just overall was very, very active in looking for her. And to be very clear, her mom was also active in the search and also spoke with the media.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
But Wes was definitely a lot more vocal when it came to speaking publicly. And he was also the most vocal when it came to law enforcement. Wes was quick to tell them that he didn't think they were doing enough to find AJ. And he even told them early on that he was conducting his own investigation. And by that, he meant organizing search parties and acting on tips that he said he was receiving.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
There was actually a number of times where he would organize a group of volunteers to help him search based off of these tips that he was getting, but none of them ever panned out. There was a time early on when a neighbor reported seeing AJ driving with purpose. was their quote, towards her house on the 2nd. And then they saw a white four-door car following a minute behind her.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
every donation is going how every dollar is being spent and who it's supporting so you can see all of that at our website and i would love for you to take a look and if you are interested we would really appreciate any support that you can give us there's a way to donate on the website and you know whatever amount is helpful to us i know that a lot of people aren't in a place to donate and
True Crime with Kendall Rae
A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
And according to Wes, another neighbor saw that same car in their family's driveway. And Wes proposed that this was someone that AJ was having problems with and that she had been texting her friends and her cousin saying that there was this guy who wouldn't leave her alone. And Wes even went as far as saying that she was scared of this person.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
Now, we don't know who this person was and really nothing about whoever this was came up when I was doing research. So that's really all I have on that. But it definitely seemed to pique Wes's interest, though, as part of his investigation. Oh, and part of his investigation also happened to include intimidating possible suspects, which brings me back to Corey French.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
After investigators released him from questioning, Wes was pissed, and so he decided to take matters into his own hands. And he wanted people to know that he thought Corey was guilty of AJ's disappearance, and of course he wanted Corey to know that as well. So, after they let him go, Wes drove over there, he parked outside of his house, and he just blared an air horn throughout the entire night.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
And not only that, he ends up ordering a pizza in AJ's name and he writes on the box, I know you did it. And then he had it delivered to Corey's house, which at the time, a lot of people felt like it crossed a line. But some didn't feel that way to a lot of these people. I think they saw a man who was so desperate, so distraught, so grief stricken that he was willing to do whatever he had to do.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
to get answers and to get AJ back. And even if that meant harassing somebody, he was going to do it. He would tell anyone that would listen that Corey was responsible for AJ going missing. And he even accused law enforcement of not being as dedicated to finding her as he was, which wasn't actually the case.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
State and federal authorities were called in to assist in the search, and everyone was doing their best to try and locate her. Even the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children was brought in to help. But here's the thing. For as suspicious as Corey was to investigators, they didn't zero in on him entirely. It didn't matter how vocal Wes was being.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
They were going to conduct a thorough investigation before making any kind of arrest. And of course, that meant looking into other suspects. including AJ's first stepdad, Zach, who we've already talked about. And they learned that the relationship between Zach and Jennifer was strained after all the custody stuff, so they ended up bringing him in for questioning.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
And they knew it was a bit of a stretch, but they wanted to make sure that he didn't do something to AJ as some kind of retaliation. But just like Josh, he was nowhere near the house when it's believed that AJ went missing. They also said that he seemed truly devastated over AJ's disappearance, like just beyond distraught. And he even offered up his own DNA.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
And at one point, they even noted that he seemed a little too upset. So they sort of kept their eye on him. But ultimately, they didn't think that he was their guy. And so that brings me to suspect number four, Andre Barr, which, if you remember, he is the friend that had first found AJ's jacket at Corey's house stashed behind the couch.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
Well, he ended up becoming a suspect in the third week of their investigation after he made another big discovery, a discovery that was made by him and Wes, to clarify. On March 20th, they come across items of AJ's clothing on the side of the road, about 25 miles from where she lived. Wes was actually the one who called the police, but he told them that Andre was with him.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
That's totally fine. Just by supporting my content, you are enabling me to put more and more into the foundation and essentially help more people. But if you are able and interested in supporting our foundation, there is a way to donate. And we will be very, very grateful as we have some big plans for 2025, already some great grants in the works and projects.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
And this was obviously a huge discovery, but investigators immediately felt like something about it was off. Because how did this one friend end up coming across two major pieces of evidence? And just to clarify, he was not the one who found the credit card. But he was the one who found the jacket, of course, and then now these clothing items. It seems pretty weird.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
So, of course, they ended up bringing him in for questioning that night. And they also brought in Wes as well, but I'll get to that in a second. And boy, did they end up getting some very useful information from Andre. I mean, just like Corey, investigators applied a lot of pressure on him and he ended up cracking.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
And he explained that neither of the pieces of evidence that he had found were a coincidence. He found them because of Wesley. And this is where it gets crazy, so just buckle up. This is where this case started to just blow my mind and piss me off. But according to Andre, Wes was the one who told him to go to Corey's house specifically to look for AJ's jacket.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
He even told him exactly where he could find it. And I'm sure you're wondering, how the hell did he know it was there? Well, according to Andre, Wes had broke into Corey's house. He told him that he went in there looking for AJ, but the jacket was all he found.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
But since he has a felony record, which I have not yet mentioned, he didn't want to report it out of fear of being arrested for breaking and entering. So basically, he asked Andre to make up an excuse to go over to the house and uncover it himself. And when it came to the clothing on the side of the road, that was also Wes's doing.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
He told Andre that he got an anonymous call about the clothing, and since he had helped Wes during the other searches, he went this time too. Andre also shared with investigators that Wes was driving super erratically. and then suddenly claimed to see the clothes on the side of the road.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
So now investigators are seeing that it wasn't like Andre had just stumbled across either of these things, that both instances had a connection to Wes. And so after hearing this, the dots really started to connect.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
From the beginning, Wes had been inserting himself into the investigation, and he was doing whatever he could to steer them in the direction of Corey. But was he only doing that to take the heat off of himself? Investigators wanted to find out, so they started looking deeper into him, and that's when they discovered his criminal record.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
To just name a few, he has several burglary and forgery charges, as well as charges for strangulation, rape, and kidnapping his estranged wife. Now, obviously, that is terrifying, highly disturbing, but it, of course, didn't prove that he did anything to AJ. It proves that he's a giant piece of shit, but not that he's a killer.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
And I'm excited to see what we do this year. So once again, thank you, guys. This would not be possible without you. But anyway, let's go ahead and dive into this case, guys, because... I've got a lot to say.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
But when they looked more into his story, though, the proof that they needed just started to come to light. Now, if you remember, he said that he last saw AJ around lunchtime at that gas station to give her cash on March 2nd. But when investigators pulled security footage from that gas station, neither Wes or AJ could be seen on the tapes. And so when they
True Crime with Kendall Rae
A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
brought him in for more questioning on the 20th, they were hoping to find out more about that. But despite a 15-hour interrogation, he continuously denied having anything to do with her disappearance, which didn't seem all that believable considering at one point when investigators left the room, the camera recording Wesley captured him saying, I'm screwed. And screwed he was.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
It became clear quickly that his story made absolutely no sense, and he didn't have any evidence to back it up, even the part about finding her clothes. He told investigators that he'd received an anonymous tip about AJ's clothes the night before from a blocked caller. But when they asked if they could see his call history, West told them that he deleted it to, quote, free up the phone memory.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
And it was later revealed that this call didn't even exist. The only thing that he somewhat gave into was the part about AJ's jacket. Investigators had told him that Andre had spilled the beans about what he had him do, and so he eventually did admit to breaking and entering, but he said that he only did it because he was so sure that... Corey was the one who was responsible.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
So, Angelica Marie, or AJ as everyone called her, was born on August 9th, 1996 in Chesapeake, Virginia to her mother, Jennifer, and she would go on to have three younger half-sisters and one younger half-brother. Her biological father was never in the picture, and the first part of her young life, it was just her and her mom.
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A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
He adamantly denied being involved, and he also denied being the one to plant the evidence there. Yet the evidence so far proved that he lied about when he last saw her. And so of course they're thinking, like we all are, if he's lying about that, what else is he lying about?
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A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
Now, like I said, this interrogation went on for a whopping 15 hours and we would be here all day if we went over all of it. But basically, the big picture is they weren't able to arrest him in connection with AJ's disappearance, but they could arrest him for breaking and entering. And in doing so, they had probable cause to execute a search warrant in the hotel room where he had been staying.
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A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
And it was there that law enforcement found more than 100 rounds of ammunition hidden in the air vent. Something that, as a felon, he's not legally allowed to have. They also found a scale and white powder, which was later identified as heroin. Again, things that he's not legally allowed to have. And investigators now also had a search warrant for his work van.
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A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
And that is what ended up being the final nail in his coffin. And it wasn't just the gloves, duct tape, shovel, hairband, and photo of AJ that caught their attention all within his work van. It was the Garmin GPS tracker sitting on his dash. However, that kind of data does take a while to process. In the meantime, though, Wesley did have more charges coming his way.
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A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
Sort of a, you know, get him on what we can until we can get him for what we think he did type of situation. And those charges included breaking and entering, of course, also obstruction of justice and possession of ammunition as a convicted felon. And just wait until you hear this next part, okay? This is going to really piss you off, or at least it should.
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A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
And in my opinion, people who do things like this are the worst among us walking this fucking planet. He was also charged with maiming an animal because he admitted that when he broke into Corey's house, he punched their dog. I think that really tells you much of what you need to know about a person is if they are willing to punch an innocent animal. I mean, who the fuck does stuff like that?
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A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
I'll never understand. But anyway, Wesley ended up being denied bond on March 27th, and in interviews at the jailhouse, he would only refer to AJ in the past tense, which was something they had noticed he had been doing since she first went missing, which is very odd for... a step-parent, technically, to do, right? Like, we almost never see that.
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A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
People get to a point where they sometimes have come to terms with the fact that their loved one probably is no longer with them, you know, the longer it's gone on. But so early on, you very rarely see a parent... or a step-parent, of course, start saying their name in the past tense or speaking about them in the past tense.
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A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
And of course, that struck people as odd, considering nobody knew if she was alive or not, and it was pretty early on. And because of that, the search efforts continued day after day in many areas across Virginia with the hope that she was still somehow alive. However, on April 9th, it was ultimately confirmed that she wasn't.
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A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
However, when AJ was two years old, her mom ended up meeting the man who would eventually become her stepfather, Zach Hoffer. And the story of how her mother met Zach is actually really interesting. Her and AJ were driving through Wyoming when suddenly their car blew a tire, skidded to the side of the road, and then did a flip.
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A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
After they reviewed data from his GPS device, they found one location that didn't seem to match the rest, and it was from March 4th. The device had been turned off on the 2nd, and there was very little data from the 3rd, but the next day, it showed that West drove to an abandoned house more than 45 miles southwest of where AJ lived.
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A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
Investigators described that day as super misty and gray with just kind of an eerie feeling. And when they arrived at the house, the lead detective on the case ended up being the one to find her. He had spotted this drainage ditch just behind the house and someone had placed a piece of plywood on top of it. And so he just barely stuck his foot underneath and sort of lifted up with his toe.
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A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
And right there, he found AJ's body lying face down in the mud. She was wearing the same outfit Wes had described. And this is very upsetting to say, but her pants had been pulled down, which does suggest a sexual assault took place. And it took a day, but on April 10th, her remains were officially identified.
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A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
Now, despite the decomposition, they could see that she had severe bruising to her chest and her face. But given how long it had been, they were unfortunately unable to determine if a sexual assault took place. And in the end, it was determined that her cause of death was acute heroin poisoning.
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A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
They say it was three times the lethal limit, which that alone, right off the bat, was an indication that AJ did not do this to herself. which I think already is pretty obvious. I mean, AJ had no history of drug use whatsoever, and there was no evidence pointing to her being responsible. On the other hand, there was plenty of evidence pointing to Wesley, but they still couldn't arrest him yet.
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A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
They needed more evidence, which eventually they did get. And based on a hunch, they just decided to go ahead and pull surveillance footage from a 7-Eleven that was close to AJ's house. And the thought there was that maybe they could see Wes's work truck coming through the area on the day that AJ went missing. And surprise, surprise, they sure did.
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A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
Around 12.16 p.m., his white Chevy Astrovan could be seen driving in the direction towards the family's home, which, as a reminder, he no longer lived at. which doesn't match up with his story about him meeting her at a gas station, which of course we already knew was bullshit because they pulled the security footage from the gas station and neither of them were ever there.
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A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
Then at 1.27 p.m., his van is seen again driving in the opposite direction away from the house and investigators believe that AJ was inside. Their theory at that point was that Wes had some type of sick sexual interest in his stepdaughter and that when he went over to the house to act on it, she denied him.
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A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
Not only that, they think she tried to fight him off, which is when he abducted her and drove off in his van. And they don't know when or where he killed her, but they believe that he was the one to poison her with the drug.
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A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
Luckily, the car landed right side up, but Zach happened to be just driving by and witnessed the whole thing. So he pulled over and rushed over to help them. Luckily, nobody was hurt besides a small cut on AJ's wrist. And yeah, that is how they met. That is their origin story. I thought that was kind of cool, like pretty serendipitous.
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A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
After all, he was a known user, and his dealer actually ended up telling police that he had bought $800 worth of heroin and cocaine from him in the early morning hours of March 3rd, which was only hours after she went missing.
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A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
And not only that, and I'm sure you all have put the pieces together here as well, but investigators also think that he was the one texting from her phone because data from that phone placed itself in his hotel room on the afternoon of March 2nd into the morning of March 3rd. And then to add to it all, his co-workers said that he was acting super strange that day.
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A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
He told them that he was going to lunch and then he was gone for two hours. And after he came back, he seemed super agitated and asked to just go home for the rest of the day. Now, considering the GPS device placed Wes at that abandoned house on the 4th, it's likely that he was actually storing her somewhere else. Because we know that she went missing on the 2nd.
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A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
And in a separate search of that hotel room, a cadaver dog hit inside the room. Now, I can't say for certain if he kept her there, but... I'm sure a lot of you agree with me that it's certainly in the realm of possibility.
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A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
And while I'm sharing evidence against him, let me add a couple of other things. And I hope this doesn't get too confusing for you guys. Try your best to follow along because I know there's a lot of names here, but we obviously know that Wes broke into Corey's house, right?
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A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
Well, apparently he had AJ's ex-boyfriend Josh kind of give him the inside scoop as to the setup, the layout of Corey's house. It's also confusing because the details of why Josh went to Corey's house are unclear, but apparently he did. And afterwards, Wes called him and asked him to, you know, explain the house, how it's laid out and stuff. But he also wanted to know if there was an alarm system.
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A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
And remember, March 6th is when Andre went to Corey's house and found the jacket. So if I were to guess, Wes probably convinced Josh that he needed to look for evidence in the house and told him to sneak in. But used that as a cover to figure out how to plant that evidence himself. And I truly don't think Josh knew what was happening. I don't think he was trying to frame Corey either.
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A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
But anyway, he and Jennifer hit it off and eventually they got married and had two daughters of their own. And despite the fact that he wasn't, you know, AJ's biological father, he was the only father figure she ever had. He called his three girls his cubs, and for a while, AJ didn't even know that he wasn't her biological father.
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A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
I think he just trusted the wrong person. And from interviews I've seen, a lot of people really trusted Wes. I mean, he was totally leading the charge. To everyone that was concerned about AJ and wanted to get answers, he seemed like the best person to listen to, that he was the most passionate and... seemed to be doing his own investigation.
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A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
You know, he's saying that the police aren't doing enough. And so people wanted to help him. So that was one crazy detail I wanted to share. But another is that Wes alluded to Andre that he was going to kill Corey. On March 8th, Andre and one of AJ's cousins went to Wes's hotel room. And I'm not entirely clear on why. But when they were there, Wes pulled out a bag with two guns inside.
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A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
and he explained that he had a plan to, quote, get rid of Corey French. He even specifically mentioned that he would dump him in a body of water because water would get rid of all of the evidence. interesting. And thankfully, that didn't end up happening, but very scary thinking about what could have happened.
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A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
And going back to Wes sort of leading the charge when it came to searching for AJ, apparently when he would organize these search parties, he would himself always call the media to make sure that they were there, which You know, doesn't seem strange in the moment.
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A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
Of course, they want as much exposure on her disappearance and the search efforts as possible, hoping to get more people involved and just raise awareness for AJ. But one thing that's very interesting to note is there was a specific instance where Wes was seen crying while the cameras were rolling. But as soon as they stopped, he was seen laughing.
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A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
Basically, it seemed like the entire thing was a show to him. And there were other examples of weird behavior like this. This was just the one that stuck out to me most. And it certainly stuck out to investigators who were now trying to do everything that they possibly could to keep him behind bars.
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A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
And that leads us to September of 2015, when he was indicted on the possession of ammunition charge. And then in October, he was officially charged with possession of heroin. And his bond was repeatedly denied because a letter that he wrote to his mom revealed that he was planning to go away for sure if he was granted it.
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A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
And in that same letter, he talked about how he was being set up for AJ's murder, which is something that to this day he continues to say. And that's why I hate him so much. He cannot just admit the truth.
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A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
And ultimately, it didn't really matter because he loved her all the same. He says that she had this little tiger stuffed animal and that she always carried that around with her. If she wasn't carrying him, she was carrying her bear, Smokey. And he also says that AJ was just wise beyond her years. And on top of that, AJ was gentle. She was kind. She loved animals.
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A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
He did end up pleading guilty to the ammunition charge, which landed him 10 years in prison. But even still, at that point, he denied killing AJ. And not just at that point, He still does as of today. And back in June of 2015, he actually spoke out despite his lawyer telling him not to. And he just spewed a bunch of the expected, the I'm innocent, I'm being framed bullshit.
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A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
But there was one part of it that really pissed me off. He said that in his last conversation with AJ that she admitted to him that she had been using heroin. He did say that he believed someone else was texting him that from her phone. I don't understand what he was trying to do with all of this.
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A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
And it's just a load of shit either way you slice it because at the end of the day, we know that her phone was in his possession. He was clearly trying so desperately to shift blame here and it did take some time, but eventually he was charged. Thankfully, in connection with her death.
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A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
In November of 2018, 40-year-old piece of shit Wesley Hadsell was indicted on one count of first-degree murder, one count of second-degree felony murder, and one count of felony concealment of a dead body. And at one point, a fellow prisoner informed on him, telling authorities that Wesley confessed to him that he was involved in AJ's death.
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A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
And I honestly don't think this is what led to his charges. I mean, informants are often looking for something in exchange for their testimony, and it sounds like this guy wanted immunity for some very serious charges. Either way, though, the charges for Wesley finally came, and it was a big step forward in the case. However... Justice didn't come as quickly as anyone would have hoped.
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A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
In February of 2020, Wesley's murder trial began. However, on day two, the judge declared a mistrial, and it was actually at the request of the prosecution. And what happened was, basically, the prosecution and the defense had come to an agreement before trial about certain information that you know, could and could not be used in the trial.
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A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
And two days in, Wesley changed his mind about this agreement, which would have changed part of the prosecution's approach to the trial. So they asked the judge to declare a mistrial in order to have some time to prepare. So a new trial was set for May, but this is 2020 we're talking about, and by May, things got pretty bad and COVID pushed the trial even further.
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A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
Finally, though, in January of 2022, the trial began, and for as strong of a case as the prosecution had, there were still some concerns. And the main concern was really that they didn't have any physical evidence of him poisoning her.
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A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
Obviously, they were able to show that he had purchased an insane amount of drugs right after she went missing, but they couldn't directly connect it to the drugs in her system. They also didn't have proof of their theory that Wesley was sexually attracted to her. Like I said, they believe he killed her after she denied his advances.
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A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
And when it came to being a big sister, she really adjusted quickly to that role and thrived as a big sister. I mean, even as a little kid, she knew how to be delicate with her younger siblings and also had no problem playing independently when one of them was needing attention from their parents.
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A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
Or maybe it was a situation where she had threatened to go to the police or report him. You know, something had to have happened like that. And yes, of course, I can't say with certainty that... you know, that's how things unfolded or that he was sexually attracted to her, that he sexually assaulted her. But in my opinion, I truly think he did. And I've seen interviews with him.
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A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
I don't know, just the way he speaks about her, like when he talks about her, about legally adopting her, the way he says it, it just creeped me out. It was almost like he was talking about like the day he married someone. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. But that's just my opinion. I have to obviously say that.
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A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
But that being said, they did have a lot of circumstantial evidence tying him to this. The biggest thing, of course, being that Garmin GPS device that placed his work van at the location that her body was found. The defense tried to argue that AJ was depressed from her breakup and took her own life. But thankfully, the jury did not buy that shit at all.
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A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
And after almost three weeks of testimony, the jury came back with their verdict very quickly. It only took them 45 minutes. And their verdict was that Wesley Hadsell was guilty of murdering his 18-year-old stepdaughter.
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A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
Oh, and I loved this, and I feel like so many of us did this as kids, but when they got a little bit older, AJ would coordinate these little concerts with the two of them, and they would put on shows for their parents. And like I said, I'm sure that's a core memory that so many of us have, you know, doing these little shows or plays with our siblings or cousins.
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A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
Then on April 4th, he appeared for his sentencing hearing, where he received life in prison plus 15 years. AJ's family was too heartbroken to go, which I completely understand, but Zach, her first stepfather, who I spoke about earlier in this episode, did go.
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A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
However, he ended up being escorted out of the courtroom after he lunged at Wesley when the defense objected to him reading a victim impact statement. And even though I obviously know there's a reason for those rules and that you cannot act that way in a courtroom, I completely understand him doing this. I mean, it would be so hard to hold back.
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A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
Zach has always felt that the court system failed AJ. He believes that if Wesley had been convicted in 2005 of the multiple rapes, assaults, and kidnappings that he was accused of, this would have never happened to AJ, the girl that he had always considered his daughter and loved so much. And I could not agree with him more. The court system did fail AJ. I mean, there's just no ifs, ands, or buts.
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A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
That is what happened. If Wesley was already behind bars before any of this happened, she would still be alive today. Now, like I said, despite it all, Wesley continues to maintain his innocence and has attempted to appeal his conviction.
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A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
And AJ was just very creative like that. She was also incredibly fearless.
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A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
zach started taking her climbing when she was only four years old and he'd help her as she climbed up the rocks but the older she got the less help she needed eventually she would just be zooming up these rocks and jumping off and didn't seem to think that really anything was scary another thing that she would do and i love this because i had a friend who always did this but she would climb up the side of the door frames and have one foot on either side to hold her there and
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A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
Now, I'm pretty confident I know how all of you are going to feel. I don't think there will be much, if any, of you out there who believe that Wes is innocent. I mean... I'd like to hear why if you do, but I definitely want to hear your opinions on the verdict and if the jury got it right. I mean, personally, I clearly think they did, and I'm very thankful that they did.
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A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
And I also think that even though AJ was by far the biggest victim in this case, she wasn't the only one. Corey French, I mean, above all else, was nearly framed for her murder and totally traumatized by his experience. And Andre Barr was very, I mean, extremely manipulated by Wes.
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A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
Andre actually lost his job throughout this because he was so focused on helping AJ, only for Wesley to try and use him to try and frame someone else. And I was watching an interview with Corey where the interviewer asked him, if you could say anything to Wesley, what would you say to him? And he just said, dude, fuck you. And I... Could not agree with that more. Fuck you, Wesley.
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A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
You are one of the biggest pieces of garbage to ever grace this planet. How dare you take advantage of this young woman with such a bright future ahead of her and then murder her? I mean, what kind of stupidity
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A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
sick individual does that to someone who they loved enough to adopt as their own and then to roam around playing this act of this grieving father who's desperate for answers leading the searches playing it up on the camera and then even worse to go and frame another young man and almost let him take the fall for murder ruining his life i mean i cannot say enough bad things about this guy just i
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A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
This is why I was so enraged looking into this case. I mean, he is just one of one of the worst I think I've ever covered. And that's saying a lot. And I think what pisses me off about him and so many of the other garbage trucks that I have covered on this show is when people cannot just admit to what they have done, what they have so clearly done.
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A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
I don't even know how to put that rage into words. It's just, I mean, the worst thing that you can possibly do. There is no hope for you. You are charged. It is over. You are going to spend the rest of your life in prison. Why not at that point just give the family the answers that they're looking for? Explain exactly what happened and just own up to what the fuck you did.
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A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
Then, of course, I'm heartbroken for the other victims in this case. Her mother. and her sisters, and also Zach as well, and everyone else who loved AJ, who, you know, her friends. So many young people have been traumatized by this entire situation, and it is just horrific. I know that AJ's memory will continue to live on through her friends and her family. But I wish it didn't have to.
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A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
I wish she was still here and she's not because of this sick, wasted person who still can't even own up to what he did. I'm just so thankful that he is behind bars and will remain there for the rest of his miserable life. And I hope he spends every day of his pathetic life picturing AJ in the way that she was when he left her there. Just sick. And I think that's all I have to say about that.
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A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
But I definitely want to hear from you guys. So let me know. AJ just seemed like such a great, great young person and it's just, it's beyond tragic. That is going to be it for me today, guys. Thank you for joining me for another episode and make sure you follow the show on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. It really does help me out.
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A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
If you want to watch the video version of this show, you can find it on my YouTube channel, which will be linked, or you can just search Kendall Ray. I will be back with another episode soon, but until then, stay safe out there.
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A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
would just casually be up at the top of the frame chilling like it was no big deal aj just seemed to have this very adventurous brave spirit about her and there was very little that she couldn't do i mean she was really willing to try anything that she wanted to put her mind to and this was really true for most areas in her life i mean aj really excelled in most things she did and school was definitely one of them in fourth and fifth grade she broke reading records at her school
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A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
And she was also a very active kid. She played a bunch of different sports, including softball, basketball, golf, field hockey, and tennis. And for many years, things in her young life were going really well. At one point, Zach even got in contact with AJ's biological father and asked him if he could formally adopt her. And he said yes.
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A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
And people had always known AJ as AJ Hoffer, but it wasn't official. So when she turned eight, he wanted to make it official. But right around the time that this process started, unfortunately, Zach and Jennifer's relationship was coming to an end. And so the process of Zach formally adopting AJ just never ended up happening.
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A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
In the separation, Zach and Jennifer ended up splitting the custody 50-50 when it came to the girls. But eventually, Jennifer gained full custody and the relationship between him and AJ was just never really the same, which was something that understandably to this day is incredibly difficult and upsetting to Zach. And they did see each other a few more times after he lost custody.
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A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
But after 2014, that was it. And then less than a year later, AJ went missing and Zach never saw AJ again. If you've been listening to my show for a while, you know how much I truly love our next sponsor, and that is Nutrafol. And I love it so much because Nutrafol has completely transformed my hair. I've been using Nutrafol for over two years now and cannot say enough good things about it.
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A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
I actually found it on my own before they even started sponsoring any of my shows. I had just had a baby and my hair was shedding like Crazy. So I started looking into solutions and that's when I found Nutrafol on my own. I bought it with my own money and I've had a great experience. So when they asked to work with me, I was so down to let more people know how amazing Nutrafol actually is.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
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True Crime with Kendall Rae
A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
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True Crime with Kendall Rae
A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
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True Crime with Kendall Rae
A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
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True Crime with Kendall Rae
A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
Hello, everyone, and welcome to True Crime with Kendall Rae. Thank you so much, as always, for joining me this week. And if you are new, then welcome. Well, guys, I just got to say right off the bat that today's case has left me with a heart full of rage. Like, the more I... resources case the more I learned the more pissed off I became.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
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True Crime with Kendall Rae
A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
Obviously, I'm jumping ahead a little bit, so to give you more context, Jennifer ended up meeting somebody else, a guy named Wesley Hadsell, and they got married and also went on to have kids of their own. And if you're familiar with this case, you've probably heard AJ referred to as AJ Hadsell, and that's because Wesley, or as a lot of people called him, Wes, ended up formally adopting her.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
And according to him, AJ was over the moon. He said that the two of them were incredibly close and that she was so excited to take his last name. And like Zach, he was a big part of her life. He watched her excel in athletics in school. She was definitely on the more reserved side as a teenager. But as soon as she was in her element, they say that she was, quote, hell on wheels.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
Then, in the fall of 2014, AJ started college at Longwood University in Farmville, Virginia, and she was double majoring in information technology and computer programming. So clearly, AJ is very smart, and she was actually determined to graduate in just three years. And many people close to her say that if she was given that chance, she would have.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
She also played softball and field hockey and was every bit as active as she had been her whole life. But any dream that AJ may have wanted for herself was stolen on March 2nd, 2015. Now, a few days before that, her mom and her sisters had driven up to her campus to pick her up and take her home for spring break. And by this point, their family was living in Norfolk, Virginia.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
Now, I just have to say, because I know people are going to point it out, that it seems from my research that people who live in Norfolk say it pretty differently. There are people who say Norfolk or some people say Norfolk, which that's how I, you know, immediately wanted to say it just by how it's spelled.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
But I think for the most part, most of the coverage that I've seen, people are saying Norfolk. So I'm going to go with Norfolk. And I'm sorry if that is wrong in your mind. So anyway, they were living in Norfolk. But Wes, actually, on the other hand, was no longer living with them. Jennifer learned that he had started using drugs and she didn't want that around the children.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
So she kicked him out of the house and he ended up staying in a hotel nearby, which means that AJ was actually home alone for most of March 2nd. She saw her mother and her siblings earlier that morning and they left around 7 a.m. for work and school. Wes did stop by briefly that morning right around 7 a.m.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
to switch out his personal truck with his work van, but after that, she was all alone, and at first, everything seemed to be okay that day. That is until mid-afternoon, when Jennifer ends up reaching out to Wes over text and asked if he had heard from AJ, because apparently AJ had been sending her mother texts that didn't sound like her, They were coming across as very cryptic.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
She was saying that she was out with friends and, quote, just needed space, but wasn't willing to tell her mom where she actually was. And so Wes started texting AJ, too, and he started getting similar responses. Just none of them sounded like AJ.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
But the alarm bells really started going off for her mom when she returns home from work and she looks at the kitchen counter and she finds a note that was in AJ's handwriting. And it reads, Dear Madre, with everything that's going on, it's a lot to deal with. And that's it.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
I actually found this case through one of you guys through my members only request form and I was surprised I had never heard of it but I was just completely shocked as I was going through the details of this one.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
Now, we do know that there were some family things with Wes going on, and her freshman year of college was also a bit challenging, as it is for most freshmen. She and her boyfriend recently had broken up, and that was definitely really hard on her. But even with all of these things going on in her life, AJ was just not a leave a note type of person.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
She would have called or texted, and she wouldn't have been so cryptic about it. And what's also strange is when her parents started reaching out to her friends to see if maybe any of them had heard from her or seen her, most of them had not heard from her either. They only got those strange messages here and there, and then eventually they just stopped coming in.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
And so on March 3rd, Jennifer went ahead and reported AJ missing. So the following day, officers with the NPD went to their home to interview her family and just get a general understanding of when the last time AJ was seen, which for her mom was around 7 a.m. on the 2nd when she left with the girls. And for Wes, it was the same day, of course, but he had seen her at around 1230.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
He said that he and AJ had met up at a gas station near his work where he gave her $100, but he said that he didn't know what she needed the money for. And I also just want to note for people who are familiar with this case that there is a lot of reporting, a lot of sources that say that it was $200 he gave her. But the official court documents say $100. So I'm just going to be going with that.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
But really, in the grand scheme of things, it's not really that important of a detail. So anyway, he described the last thing that she was wearing, which included her blue softball jacket that had her name embroidered on the front. Now, this jacket is going to become important in this case.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
But anyway, after Wes gives her this money, which he said he didn't know what she needed it for, she didn't explain what she needed it for, that he saw her head in the direction of their home and that's where he assumed that she went.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
Then one of AJ's little sisters ended up speaking to the police and she shared that when she came home from school on the 2nd, the front door was unlocked and there was half-folded laundry in the living room. And upon further inspection... they realized that her wallet with money still inside of it had been left on the couch, which obviously gave them immediate cause for concern.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
Today we're going to be going over the case of AJ Hadsell and this episode is going to go up quite close to the date that she disappeared actually so I thought it would be a good time to tell you about her story. And if you haven't already heard this case, I promise you, as you start hearing these details, you're going to feel just as angry as I am. I mean, every case makes me angry.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
It looked as if AJ was at home doing laundry and then something or someone interrupted her. And the reality is AJ was just not the type of person to run away. I mean, at least not according to her friends and family. Really, she was just a very well-behaved teenager. She didn't drink. She didn't do drugs or anything like that.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
And if she was ever struggling with something, she was the type to open up to someone and try and seek help or support from someone in her life. And so ultimately, between these strange texts and the note and the condition of the living room, these officers off the bat just sensed that there was something seriously wrong. So of course, they began building a list of suspects and...
True Crime with Kendall Rae
A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
No surprise here, but one of the first suspects on their list was Josh, her ex-boyfriend. However, despite police noting that he was acting a little bit strange about the whole thing, they said that he just didn't seem like he had much of a motive. And plus, he, I mean, from his point of view, explained to police that their breakup was mutual.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
And even if that isn't true, he did have a very strong alibi. Now, they didn't completely write him off at this point. They just sort of moved him to the side, especially because someone else had caught their attention, which requires a bit of a backstory. So AJ was the kind of person who had more guy friends than girlfriends.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
And one of her really close friends growing up was this guy named Corey French. The two of them actually dated pretty briefly, and then it just ended up being one of those situations where they both realized were better off as friends. So, you know, no term oil there. And when she first went missing, he was one of many people who jumped right into action to help try and locate her.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
A Person Close to Her Did the Unthinkable… the Tragic Case of AJ Hadsell
He helped make flyers, searched through fields, and overall seemed genuinely concerned about finding her. And then on March 5th, while he was walking home from work, he just so happened to stumble across the first big piece of evidence in this case, and that was a piece... of AJ's credit card. But when he called police to tell them about this, they were, of course, a little suspicious.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
Das ist einer der besten Disney-Movies jemals und ist so beeindruckend. Aber wie Sie deutlich sehen können, liebt Baron seinen Sohn so sehr. Und der Fakt, dass er Geld in eine Vertrauen, um ihn zu schützen, zeigt wirklich nur, dass sein Sohn's Wellbeing immer ein Priorität für Baron war, von Anfang an. Aber die Wahrheit ist, dass das Geld nicht genug ist, um Eric für immer zu kümmern.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
Und es ändert nicht den Fakt, was passiert ist und wie es komplett vorhanden war. Wegen ihrer grossen Verzweiflung braucht Eric um die Uhr Aufmerksamkeit, die er dankbar ist. Baron hat sich immer darauf eingelassen, ihn zu geben. Now Sharon, on the other hand, not so much.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
In the year or so after he was born, she was going through a period of depression, which definitely can happen after giving birth. And of course, while I have sympathy for anyone experiencing postpartum depression, at the end of the day, she was neglecting the very specific type of care that her child desperately needed. And on top of that, she also wasn't being faithful to Baron.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
So in 2015, he decided that it would be... Ein guter Zeitpunkt, um ihre Beziehung zu beenden. Und nicht nur für sich selbst, sondern für den besten Interesse seines Sohnes. Und er wusste auch, dass es in Erics besten Interesse wäre, wenn er sein primärer Anwesender wäre. Jedoch, als er all das Sharon erzählt hat, resultierte es in einem großen Kampf, wo die Nachbarn die Polizei anrufen mussten.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
Und vergesst das, ihr Leute. Oh mein Gott, das ist mir schrecklich. Aber als die Offiziere kamen, begann Sharon falsche Angelegenheiten von Sharon zu verurteilen. Nicht nur sie, sondern auch ihr Sohn. Und ich kann es nicht genug stressen. Diese Begrüßungen waren völlig unabhängig. Und das hat sie nicht stoppen lassen, sie zu machen.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
Und so hat es schlussendlich zu einer Saga von Ereignissen geführt, die nicht nur die Begrüßung seines Sohnes verloren hat, sondern auch die Begrüßung seines Sohnes. Now, something that Baron and I spoke a lot about when we were on the phone the other day is that he feels that this never would have happened if the roles were reversed.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
Take out your phone or if you're on the computer and go to his Instagram. If you are on Instagram, go to his social media. I will put his handles up on the screen. It will also be in the description box. His Instagram handle is Baron, B-A-R-O-N-B-L-I dot C-K-M-D.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
I mean, being a man in this situation, the officer didn't look for proof of Sharon's claims and she basically was able to say whatever she wanted and the officer just... took her at her word. And I want to be very clear here that it is super important that we believe victims of domestic violence, but women are not the only victims.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
And I don't think that is something we talk enough about in society. Men can be victims too. And in this case, Baron was a victim who was painted to be the perpetrator. And At the root of it all, what is so heartbreaking is that the person who really suffered the most was Eric. In the first three months that he was in her care full time, he was hospitalized five times.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
And keep in mind that while his condition is serious, it's not like he was always in and out of hospitals. And obviously, this concerned Baron a lot. I mean, that's putting it lightly. He was very upset, very angry, and...
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
really felt helpless in this situation and to make matters worse when he would go and see eric at the hospital sharon would lie to the security and tell them that he wasn't allowed to even be around his son and they did end up kicking him out which prevented him from seeing eric at all which is heartbreaking to me because this man like i've already said probably several times at this point loves his child more than anything in the world and would do anything for him
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
So for him to be denied access to him in the hospital when he needs that love from his parent and support is just devastating. And you'll hear Baron explain this in a minute, but on top of it all, it got to a point where the support payments and the court fees became too much to keep up with and he was somewhere between $12,000 and $14,000 behind.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
And he was told if he didn't pay it by December, he was going to be sent to jail. So he had to make the incredibly hard choice of leaving Washington because he knew that he wasn't going to be able to fight for his son from behind bars.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
Und ich hoffe wirklich, dass ihr euch in großen Nummern für ihn auswählen könnt und ihm das Follower geben, um seine Botschaft zu erhöhen und mehr Menschen zu erreichen. Und am Ende dieses Episodes werde ich euch erklären, warum es so wichtig ist, dass wir Baron unterstützen, weil was er tut, ist... Ich hoffe, es hat euch gefallen. Bis zum nächsten Mal.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
And in doing that, he knew that people were going to think that he was abandoning his son. But let me tell you, that could not be further from the truth. Who doesn't love the good things in life? I certainly do. I mean, I enjoy a little luxury, but I don't like paying the high prices for it. But that all changed when I discovered Quince.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
Now, I am 100% serious when I say that Quince has really become my go-to for luxury essentials at an affordable price. It's become one of my favorite brands. I've turned so many friends and family on to Quince. If you haven't heard of it,
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
Quince offers a range of high quality items at prices within reach, like 100% Mongolian cashmere sweaters from $50, washable silk tops and dresses, organic cotton sweaters and 14 karat gold jewelry. And the best part, all Quince items are priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
By partnering directly with top factories, Quince cuts out the cost of the middleman and then passes those savings on to us. And another great part about Quince is they only work with factories that use safe, ethical and responsible manufacturing practices and premium fabrics and finishes. And I just love that. I have so many favorites from Quince. I've got to say their yoga pants are awesome.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
I love their thermals. I love their jewelry. I love their bags and wallets. We've recently got a new duvet cover from Quince. And oh my gosh, this thing is beautiful, but also so comfy, so soft, washes really well, holds up. And I think that's the Quince quality too. I have never had a Quince piece that becomes destroyed in the wash, which I think is the true test of quality.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
Und despite all of that, he has remained so resilient and so kind and just a good human. And people like that just inspire me beyond words. So Baron was born in July of 1972 in Thailand. But when he was young, his family moved to Hawaii. And it was there that he was put into foster care after being abused by both of his parents.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
So give yourself the luxury that you deserve with Quince. Go to quince.com slash tckr for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. That's q-u-i-n-c-e dot com slash tckr to get free shipping and 365-day returns. Once again, quince.com slash tckr. Leaving Washington was a strategic move to be able to regroup and prepare to get his son back for good. And Vegas was where Baron decided to go.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
And a big reason that he was able to gain the strength to keep fighting was because of one special person who I've already mentioned, Didi.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
So like you just heard, Baron was still very determined to get back custody of his son, even though he himself was still trying to get back on his feet. And in May of 2017, an opportunity presented itself. He got a call from CPS saying that Eric had been placed into a foster home.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
And I just want to start off by really emphasizing that the woman whose care Eric was placed in was an absolute saint. I got the opportunity to learn about her more from Baron when we spoke. And her name is Denise and he could have not said nicer things about her. I mean, just raved about her.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
In fact, he said that she will always be a mom to Eric in a way because of how well she cared for him and how close the two of them got. Ja, und wir haben auch viel Zeit darüber verbracht, wie unfreundlich rar das ist. Ich meine, ich denke, dass die meisten Menschen verstehen, dass es große Probleme in der Pflegeversorgung gibt. Und schade ist, dass viele Leute es für die falschen Gründe tun.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
Sie tun es für den Geld. Und die Kinder, die in diese Häuser gesetzt werden, die falschen Häuser... Untertitelung. BR 2018 und du machst es, um die richtigen Gründe zu tun. Glück auf dich, denn oftmals kann es nicht einfach sein, aber du machst so einen massiven Einfluss auf diese Kinder.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
Aber wie ich gesagt habe, ist es leider sehr selten, dass Kinder in ein Förderhaus gesetzt werden, mit Förderern, die sich wirklich darum kümmern und es für die richtigen Gründe tun. Und das ist eine der vielen Dinge, die Baron wirklich versucht, Aufmerksamkeit zu vermitteln, weil... Yeah, a lot of foster parents are not like Denise at all.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
In Baron's own personal experience, he was placed into 17 different foster homes and only a small percentage, a small handful of those homes he actually felt supported in. Und er ist definitiv nicht allein. Es gibt so viele Leute, die ähnliche Erfahrungen mit dem, was er durchgeführt hat, teilen. Und die Realität ist, dass das ein Thema sein könnte.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
Und ich bin sicher, dass es einige von Ihnen da sind, die durch das Pflege-System durchgekommen sind und es nicht zuerst kennen. Und ich würde gerne von Ihnen in den Kommentaren hören und mehr von dieser Konversation starten. Und ich werde später mehr darüber sprechen.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
Aber unter den vielen Problemen mit dem Pflege-System gibt es eine große Unwahrheit von Schutz, die Kinder wie Baron und Eric in unglaublich vulnerable Positionen verursacht. Glücklicherweise hatte Eric eine tolle Vizepräsidentin und danke Gott für das, weil sie nur gehört hat, wie er in ihrer Beziehung begonnen hat, was ich sicherlich überwältigen solltet.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
Während Baron immer noch keine Verwaltung hatte, hatte Sharon einen In-Haus-Vizepräsidenten und dieser Vizepräsident fand Eric kaum noch lebendig, kaum noch atmen. Und trotzdem hat Sharon entschieden, an der Zeit noch in die Schule zu gehen. Und weil er so schwer war, hoffentlich hat dieser Vizepräsident sofort 9-1-1 angerufen und ihn dann in den Krankenhaus gerufen.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
Well, while he was there, CPS started an investigation and found out that Sharon had tried to order a do not resuscitate and a tracheotomy for Eric during one of his many hospital visits in her care. And the hospital staff, of course, I'm sure they were very confused by this, and they basically told her that she could not do that. Und klar, Sharon ist jemand, der das Nichts nicht mag.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
Also ging sie und brachte ihn zu zwei anderen Krankenhäusern, die ihr das selbe erzählte. Und als diese beiden Krankenhäuser zu einem anderen gesprochen haben, fühlten sie sich, als wäre das ganze Ding wirklich seltsam.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
Und ich bin sehr gespannt, wie all eure Gedanken darüber sind, weil, meiner Meinung nach, es ist bizarr und wirklich, wirklich schrecklich, weil Eric nicht in irgendeinem medizinischen Zustand war, wo ein DNR oder Tracheotomie notwendig wäre. Und so, nach der Sicht auf die Situation als Ganzes, CPS bestätigte, dass Eric nicht sicher war in der Behandlung von Sharon.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
Und so endete er in Denise's Behandlung, seiner Vaterin. So endete CPS mit dem Anruf von Baron und dem Anruf, ob er Eric anrufen kann. Und um es klar zu machen, hatte es nichts mit Denise's Behandlung als Vaterin zu tun, aber... Obviously, at the end of the day, it's best for him to be with a biological parent.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
They specifically told him that if he was able to establish medical care in Vegas, then they would have someone bring him down. And I just loved what Barron's response to this was, because he knew that his son already had an established team of doctors at Seattle Children's Hospital.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
So instead of having Eric come to them, he, Didi, Sophia and Ethan all moved up to Bellevue, Washington to go to him. So that right there just shows you what a dedicated and selfless parent Baron is. And also I want to shout out Didi, Ethan and Sophia for making that move as well, uprooting their lives because they knew it was going to be best for Eric.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
What sucks though is he wasn't given custody of Eric right off the bat. A judge had him and Sharon go through a dependency case where both of them would be given partial custody and a decision would be ultimately made about which parent was a better fit. Und das ging für etwa zwei Jahre.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
Und sie mussten eigentlich Verhandlungen an der lokalen Polizistation machen, weil sich so hostile Dinge zwischen ihnen geworden sind. Und schau dir das an. Sharon wollte nicht, dass Eric physisch zu Baron übergebracht wird, also würde sie ihn an den Boden legen. Und das würde in der Parkplatte der Polizistation passieren.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
Also ist es wild für mich, dass es zwei Jahre dauerte, um zu entscheiden, dass er der bessere Fitt war, weil es so klar ist. Aber das ist, wie lange es dauerte. Vielen Dank. Untertitelung des ZDF, 2020 Untertitelung des ZDF, 2020 Untertitelung des ZDF, 2020 Untertitelung. BR 2018 Untertitelung des ZDF, 2020
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
Hallo, alle, und willkommen zurück zu True Crime with Kendall Rae. Vielen Dank, wie immer, für's Zusehen heute. Und wenn ihr neu auf dem Show seid, dann willkommen. Ich bin froh, euch hier zu haben. Und Leute, heute bin ich so gespannt, so ehrgeizig, dass ich in die Geschichte springe, die ich euch erzählen werde, weil das ist die Geschichte eines Überlebens.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
Now, when Baron was 22 years old, he was still living in Hawaii. But in the aftermath of the Gulf War, as tourism dipped in the state, he decided he wanted to try living somewhere new. So he took a leap and ended up buying a one-way ticket to Las Vegas, along with a one-week stay at the California Hotel.
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Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
And his friends sort of thought he was a little crazy at the time because he didn't really think through anything beyond that. But it all ended up working out. He first got there in 1994 and eventually he got a job working as a dealer at a casino. And as you can imagine, or maybe you know from personal experience, this is a very social job, which led to Baron meeting all types of people.
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Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
Für ihn war die Idee, ihm ein Foto zu schicken, einfach nicht der Botschaft, die er ihnen hören wollte. Und diese Botschaft ist wirklich sein Motto geworden, nämlich, das Leben kann mich schlagen, aber es kann mich nicht schlagen. Das ist etwas, was wir alle jeden Tag in unseren Denken behalten sollten. Und wenn es eine Sache ist, in der ich mir sicher bin,
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Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
It's that nothing will ever keep Baron Lee down. He has exhibited so much strength throughout all of this and not just in terms of the shooting. Because before getting shot, the accusations made by his ex-wife stripped him of everything he had. Not to mention the fact that he was abused by his parents and went through 17 different foster homes.
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Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
But none of that has stopped him from fighting for what he knows is right. And in all honesty, Baron has said that being shot nine times is actually not the worst thing that's ever happened to him. In fact, he actually called it a relief because it meant that people would finally believe the truth that he had been the victim all along.
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Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
When he was shot, he may not have known the identity of his attacker, but he was confident that only one person could have been behind it. And that was his ex-wife, Sharon Kelly. She was the only person who had the motive. And luckily, the investigation led police right to her. So let's talk about it.
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Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
As soon as first responders and police arrived on scene, one of the major priorities, besides obviously saving Baron's life, was finding the shooter. Because of course, for all they knew, this was an armed gunman, on the loose, and that is a major public safety concern. Their special operations group was even called and they spread out all over, trying to track down this shooter.
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Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
Now for context, Baron and his family were living at the overlook at Lakemont Apartments. And there's this staircase that leads down to a tunnel, and then that tunnel opens up to a shopping complex and a park. And a witness actually told police that they saw someone running in that direction shortly after the shooting, so this was an area that they primarily focused their search.
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Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
Leider fanden sie niemanden und bemerkten schnell, dass es nicht ein randomer Angriff war. Einige Units kanvassen das Gebiet, andere verarbeiteten die Szene, und die Leute auf der Szene bemerkten, dass es nicht wirklich ein randomer Angriff war. If this had been something like a robbery gone wrong, you would expect things to have been stolen, right?
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Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
But Baron had two phones on him, his wallet, his car keys and valuable jewelry. And on top of that, both a witness and Baron later told police that they saw the shooter picking up some of the spent shell casings. And your typical shooter doesn't do that.
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Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
Then they had a police canine come in and the dog tracked the scent from the parking lot where Baron was shot to the lower parking lot by the park. And the dog stopped very abruptly in that lower lot. And that indicated to them that the shooter got into a car at that point and fled, almost like they had an escape plan. So now they had to consider that someone wanted him dead. But who?
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Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
And personally, when I talked to him... I could just tell that this was a great position for him because he is a very social and talkative person who is filled with interesting things to say. And he's just, like I said earlier, very kind. So I think he thrived in that environment. And in 2001, he ended up meeting a woman named Didi. Now, Didi was originally from Thailand, just like him.
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Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
Well, according to Didi, who spoke with investigators while Baron was in surgery, Sharon was the only person who didn't get along with him. And she explained that his ex-wife might have been trying to get back at him for gaining custody of Eric. Plus, if we're talking about motive here, there was that hefty malpractice trust fund that was set up in his name.
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Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
So, I mean, logically speaking, it was the only thing that really made sense. However, once Baron was out of surgery, he explained that it couldn't have been Sharon who pulled the trigger. Now, he wasn't sure if the person who shot him was male or female, but he was certain that this person was thin. And that just doesn't match her description.
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Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
But, just like Didi had said, he told investigators that she is the only person he thinks would have the motive to do it. And they also did have to consider Didi's ex-husband, who I guess there was bad blood with, but he was very quickly... Aber am Ende des Tages zeigten die Zeichen wirklich nur auf eine Person, aber offensichtlich sind Zeichen und Beweise nicht genau das gleiche.
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Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
Also mussten die Bewerber nur noch den Fall arbeiten, um zu sehen, wo es sie führte. Und letztendlich kamen es zu Sicherheitskameras, die sie in die richtige Richtung führten. Als sie das Gebäude anbauten, fanden die Bewerber eine Kamera, die zu einem Gebäude montiert wurde. Und das Gebäude hat einfach einen der Hauptstraßen in und aus dem niederen Parkbereich gefasst.
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Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
Und als sie durch die Fotos ging, sahen sie, dass es ein bisschen weniger als zwei Stunden vor dem Foto war, dass ein maronenfarbener Ford F-150 in den Parkbereich gefahren ist. Und dann könnte man einen schmalen Figuren sehen, der auf der Straße nach der Richtung von Barons Wohnung geht. Das allein war nicht allzu seltsam.
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Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
Aber dann, eine Stunde und 50 Minuten später, könnte man die gleiche Person sehen, die auf der Straße läuft. von der Apartment, und dann könnte das selbe Fahrzeug gesehen werden, das in die andere Richtung aussteigt, von der es kam, was natürlich nicht wie eine Überraschung fühlte.
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Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
Und was auch keine Überraschung war, war der Fakt, dass das, wo dieser Fahrzeug wahrscheinlich parkiert wurde, das selbe Gebiet war, wo dieser Kaninchen den Schützern geschenkt hat. So, assuming that this was connected, investigators had to try and figure out who this truck belonged to. And using traffic cameras in the area, they were able to do just that.
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Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
They basically were able to track that same truck across multiple cameras and a few things stood out. I mean, starting with the fact that there were not one, but two people in the truck.
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Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
And truthfully, they couldn't really see the driver all that well, but they could see that the guy in the passenger seat was wearing the same white shirt as the guy who ran away from the apartment complex minutes after the shooting. And they also saw that he was wearing what looked like a gold chain necklace and that he wasn't wearing his seatbelt correctly. And this is very interesting.
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Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
He did have his seatbelt clipped in, but the part that goes across your chest was tucked under his arm. And this will be very important later on, so we'll come back to that. But the other key thing that they saw was the truck's license plate, which showed that it belonged to a guy named Arthur Mendez in Mount Vernon, Washington.
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Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
However, they learned that it wasn't Arthur who typically drove that car. It was his 17-year-old son, Quincy. But the strange thing was, neither Arthur nor Quincy had an obvious connection to Baron. And assuming that the driver of this truck was connected to the shooting, you would expect that there would at least be something.
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Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
So, the special ops team began following the truck over the next few days to see where it went, hoping that it would lead them to some more answers. And they also decided it was time to go ahead and pay a visit to Sharon. And that whole interaction really rubbed investigators the wrong way.
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Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
And she had just moved to Vegas after graduating college in Canada. And Baron was one of the first friends that she made when she came to the States. Und ja, ich habe Freunde gesagt, und es wird alles ein bisschen vollständig werden, aber ich wollte sie direkt aus dem Grunde erwähnen, weil sie eine sehr kritische Rolle spielt, um die Leben von Baron zu retten. In mehr Wegen als nur einer.
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Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
What happened was, they went to her house and they knocked on the door and explained that they were from Bellevue investigating a crime. And mind you, they didn't provide any specifics at first. Yet her response to them was something like, the only person I know in Bellevue is my ex-husband and I have no idea what's going on with him.
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Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
But they never said that this had anything to do with Baron in the first place. Now, they did eventually tell her that it was about him, but for her to independently bring that up on her own felt weird. And she also didn't mention Eric, her son, who also lives in Bellevue. And not only that, she was very quick to bring up the idea that Baron also had people in Nevada who Er hatte Probleme mit ihm.
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Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
Und, you know, obviously she's trying to shift their attention in another direction. Then, as expected, she just decided to stop answering questions altogether. So they had to walk away. But luckily, though, they didn't need her cooperation to find Baron's shooter. Am 15. Juli trug das Special Ops Team Quincy, der Teenager, in seinem Truck und sie führten ihn zu einem Gasstationen.
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Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
Und in dem Auto mit ihm war ein weiterer Teenager, der soeben mit einem Gold-Chain-Necklace und seinem Seeltuch unter seinem Arm war. Und das war wirklich interessant für mich und hat mir ehrlich gesagt ein bisschen Aufmerksamkeit gegeben. Aber ich glaube, es ist wirklich selten, dass Leute das Seeltuch unter ihrem Arm tragen.
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Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
Die Investigatorin, die ich darüber gesprochen habe, sagte, dass es weniger als 1% der Bevölkerung ist, die das tut. Also ist es eine sehr spezifische Sache, um eine Person zu tun. Sicherlich sieht man die Person aus, die von Baron's Apartment weggerannt wurde, nachdem er geschossen wurde. Und es war nicht schwer, herauszufinden, wer dieser Junge war.
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Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
Also, nachdem sie nach Quincy's High School ging und der Fakultät ein Foto des anderen Mannes zeigte, lernten sie, dass es tatsächlich 17-jähriger Josef Goode war. Was interessant war, war, dass neither of these boys known to be troublemakers were.
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Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
Quincy was even planning to join the military after he turned 18, but that dream of his would never come true, because police suspected that he was the getaway driver in a murder attempt. And that of course would mean that Joseph was the shooter. And of course, this was just a theory at first, but it was confirmed after investigators got a search warrant for their electronic data.
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Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
Nun, natürlich dauert es lange, Monate von jemandem elektronische Daten durchzuführen, und wir sprechen von Teenagern, die immer auf ihren Telefonen sind und alle ihre Geräte, also dauerte es drei Monate, sie durchzuführen, aber sie haben einige ziemlich unvergessliche Beweise gefunden.
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Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
Es scheint, dass Joseph eine E-Mail in seinem E-Mail von einem Website namens BrickHouse Security hatte, das eine Firma ist, die Tracking Geräte verkauft. And this didn't make a whole lot of sense to investigators at the time. I mean, why would a 17-year-old need a tracking device?
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Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
I mean, unless your parents set you up with one for whatever reasons, but it turns out that it wasn't necessarily his. Listen to this. The investigators ended up going back to Barron's car, which was still in their possession, and right there on the ground was this tracking device. It had been taped to the bottom of his car, and while it was sitting in evidence, the device had fallen off.
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Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
And after getting a search warrant for the data on that specific tracker, they learned that it was registered to none other than Sharon Kelly. Shocker. Finally, it gave them the connection that they had suspected was there all along. And get this. The device was actually purchased back in 2015. And it didn't end up being activated until two weeks before the shooting.
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Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
Aber um es klar zu machen, am 1. They were just friends. Didi ended up getting married and had two kids in Vegas, Sophia and Ethan. And in October of 2010, Baron got married himself. He ended up marrying a woman named Sharon Kelly, who he first started talking to online in late 2008.
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Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
And then only four days after the shooting, the device was deactivated. They also found texts between Sharon and Joseph about payment for the job. She was going to pay him $13,000 to kill Baron, but because he wasn't successful, she wasn't going to give it to him at all. Now, Joseph was apparently determined and said that he would try again. Thankfully, though, that didn't happen.
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Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
And luckily, all of this was enough for investigators to finally make the arrests. Am 8. Oktober wurden alle drei Anwälte verhaftet und die Anwälte haben es gleichzeitig gemacht, um niemanden zu verhindern, den anderen auszutippen. Und es ging langweilig. Alle drei von ihnen wurden ohne Probleme verhaftet und Suchen wurden sogar an jeder ihrer Häuser durchgeführt.
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Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
Aber letztendlich haben sie eigentlich nie die Waffe, die für Barron verwendet wurde, zurückgebracht. Bis heute. Sie haben ein paar Geld gefunden und sogar ein Burner-Phone bei Sharon's Place, aber nicht die Waffe selbst. Es war nicht ihr Platz, es war nicht der Platz der Jungs, also wer weiß, was sie damit gemacht haben.
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Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
Now, as you can imagine, as a parent of a teenager, to find out that your child was involved in something like this had to have been incredibly shocking. And Quincy's parents were very, very shocked at the news. And they thought that police had to have been mistaken, but they weren't.
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Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
Their son and his friend were involved in an attempted murder plot, which is why they both were booked on the charge of attempted murder in the first degree. And I'm sure you're wondering, how did Sharon know these boys to begin with? It turns out, her teenage brother went to the same high school as them. And Joseph was the one she connected with.
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Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
She offered him $13,000 to kill Baron, and he eventually roped Quincy into it, and he agreed to be the getaway car for a cut of the money. Which is just so mind-blowing. I know teenagers don't have...
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Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
You know, there lack some critical thinking skills when you're that young, but to throw your life away or to risk throwing your life away and to take someone else's life away for $13,000, actually less because they were going to be splitting it however they had agreed, it's just so mind-blowing to me. And we know all of this because Quincy just flat out confessed.
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Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
The other two stayed completely silent, but he told investigators everything and even took responsibility for his role right off the bat. And given the threat of what they all were facing in terms of jail time, all three of them ended up just pleading guilty in exchange for lesser sentences.
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Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
They didn't officially meet until January of 2009, which is when she drove down from Washington to Vegas to meet him. But things went well enough that she ended up moving to Vegas, where the two of them ended up getting married on October 10th of 2010. But by January of 2011, they ended up leaving Vegas and going back to Washington, where Sharon was originally from.
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Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
And another detail about this case that just really warmed my heart and made me admire Baron even more is he actually advocated for the boys to get lesser sentences. He didn't want their lives to be ruined over a horrific mistake, but a mistake. And he knew that they were very young and yeah, he just didn't want to see that happen. So that level of forgiveness just...
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Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
Baron ist ein echter Salz auf der Erde, ein rarer Typ von Mensch. Ich weiß nicht, ob ich diesen Typ von Stärke und Vergnügung hätte, wenn ich in seinen Schuhen wäre. Also endete Quincy mit dem Verurteilung, dass er in der ersten Klasse verurteilt wurde. Und er wurde 8 Jahre und 10 Monate verurteilt.
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Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
Und Joseph verurteilt, dass er verurteilt wurde, dass er verurteilt wurde, dass er verurteilt wurde, dass er verurteilt wurde, dass er verurteilt wurde, Now, as for Sharon, who we have zero empathy for, she pleaded guilty to solicitation to commit murder in the second degree, resulting in a very underwhelming sentence of only 165 months or just under 14 years behind bars.
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Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
Which, when I heard that, my jaw was on the floor. I felt instantly just filled with rage. How could someone only get such a low amount of time for something that horrific, especially given her history? Und auch bei Barron, das Wort ist nicht fast genug. Aber am Ende des Tages, das Gute hier, ist, dass das sie hinter den Bars hinterlässt, bis zu Erics 18.
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Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
Geburtstag, was im Endeffekt bedeutet, dass sie nicht Zugang zu seinem Vertrauen erzielen kann.
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Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
And it was there that they had their son, Eric Dragon Lee. Now, he was born in April of 2014, and he's actually going to be a focal point of this episode today. Und seit wir Baron hier heute haben, dachte ich, es wäre besser für ihn, zu erklären, was zu Eric passiert ist. Aber zuerst gebe ich dir ein bisschen Backstory.
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Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
Which even though she deserved so much more time, that alone, the fact that she can't get access to the trust, is such a massive relief. I mean, this woman is a monster and really the shooting is just the tip of the iceberg. I mean, it goes so much deeper than that. Obviously the shooting was the tipping point and very scary and undeniably big part of this.
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Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
But one of our biggest goals with this episode was to share with you all that there is so much beneath the surface that led to that point. And part of that is the reality that Eric was always her target. Es ist nicht zu enttäuschen, dass Baron eine klare Verletzung in all dem ist. Ich meine, er wurde neunmal geschossen, um alles zu tun, was er konnte, um seinen Sohn zu schützen.
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Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
Aber es war Eric's Trust Fund, das sie wollte. Und Baron war nur jemand, der in der Weise war, dass sie das bekommen. Ehrlich gesagt, diese ganze Geschichte ist fast unglaublich. Und es ist ein großer Grund, warum ich Baron wollte, um auf die Show zu kommen und euch darüber zu erzählen. Ich meine, wer könnte diese Geschichte besser erklären als er?
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Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
So we also wanted to take the time to share what he has been doing as a result of all of this and highlight the major systemic issues that allowed this to happen in the first place. Specifically as it relates to the custody dispute with Eric, the baseless claims made against Barron and how the system is not set up to support fathers.
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Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
Weil Sharon keine Beweise hatte, dass sie Barron von seinen Elternrechten strecken konnte und ihn zur Unabhängigkeit zwingte. Das führte zu einer kontroversen Straftat, die schlussendlich in den Schuss gelangte. Sharon manipulierte das System in ihrer Fähigkeit und es kostete fast Barron und Eric ihre Leben. Dieser ganze Fall ist sehr gelagert.
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Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
Und bei jedem Lager waren Barron und Eric die Gefühle. Obviously, women and mothers are failed by our systems all the time. But Barron's case serves as a very important reminder that fathers experience the failures of the system as well. And the protections in place for fathers are not always the same as they are for mothers. Again, keyword not always.
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Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
And there are just so many issues across the board for everyone. But it's really a huge issue that he has been calling attention to and trying to advocate for. Specifically, he wants people in Washington to help support the Washington Initiative for Boys and Men in getting House Bill 1266 heard and passed to create a commission for boys and men.
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Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
If this bill passes, boys and men will be better advocated for when laws are passed. and it will also look at current legislation and seek to make changes as well.
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Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
This bill, along with Senate Bill 5446, will focus on policy recommendations in five areas, including education and skills, mental and physical health, fatherhood, family and relationships, jobs, careers and financial health, and experiences of males in the court system. So if you live in Washington and want to show your support for this bill, you can call or write your legislator.
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Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
Also, im Grunde, bevor ihr Sohn geboren wurde, endete Sharon in einem Argument mit ihrem OBGYN über das Gewicht, das sie während der Geburt hatte. Und weil dieses war, hat sie entschieden, Eric nicht an einem großen Krankenhaus zu geben. Und stattdessen ging sie zu einem Midwife-Birthing-Center. Und als es zu seinem eigentlichen Geburtstag kam, ging es eigentlich sehr smooth.
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Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
As always, I'll have an example typed up in the description box of this episode or the show notes if you're listening on Spotify or Apple Podcasts. And so that will make it really easy for you to just copy and paste unless you want to change it up or write your own. That's great, too.
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Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
And currently, no other state has a commission for boys and men, but you can still reach out to your legislators and ask for one. Barron told me that he has connected with thousands of other fathers who are in very similar situations to what he went through. Und er hat das durch Unterstützungsgruppen gemacht. Und das ist etwas, was Männer weltweit erleben.
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Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
Und er will auch Menschen ermutigen, ihre Repräsentanten zu petitionieren, um einen 50-50-Parentenplan zu kämpfen, sodass Kinder gleich Zeit mit beiden Eltern haben und weder Eltern verabredet werden. Und offensichtlich geht das wirklich ohne zu sagen, aber das ist, wenn es keine Beweise gibt, dass Verletzungen oder ungeheuerliche Bedingungen auf jeder Seite sind.
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Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
In Barons Case, the false allegations made against him were believed. And then when they realized he was a capable father, he still wasn't able to get back complete custody. He was deemed guilty until proven innocent. And not having fair due process is something that is not unique to him. And he's hoping to change that for other fathers going forward.
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Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
Now I'll put more information about this initiative in the show notes or description box. But if you guys have any questions, Baron is very willing to connect with anyone out there who wants more information or wants to learn more. You can always reach out to him online. You know, just through his social media, he says DMs are the best way to do so.
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Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
So once again, pull out your device, find Baron on social media, please give him a follow. This man deserves it and his content is excellent. He's planning to do much more with that. So help him spread the word and give him that support. It would mean a lot to me and I know it would mean a lot to him. And another way that you can help him is by supporting the nonprofit that he co-founded.
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Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
Sie war nur 30 Minuten im Arbeit und er wurde perfekt gesund geboren. Jedoch, nur ein paar Tage später, als sie ihn vom Krankenhaus nach Hause genommen haben, haben sie bemerkt, dass er anfing, grün zu werden und Gehör zu entwickeln. Now this is something that is actually very common.
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Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
und es heißt Route 21. Ich liebe es wirklich, was dieses Non-Profit tut, und es stammt von seinen eigenen Erfahrungen im Pflegesystem. Zusammen haben sie eine Bedürfnis für Kinder, die im System sind, zu mentorieren. Und wer würde das besser tun, als jemand, der schon durch das System gegangen ist?
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Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
Also was Route 21 tut, ist, dass sie junge Ärzte bezahlen, die aus dem Pflegesystem graduiert sind, um Jugendlichen zu mentorieren, die noch aktiv in dem System sind. Und was sie wirklich tun, ist zweifelsohne. Zum einen helfen sie Kindern im System, die Fähigkeiten zu lernen, die sie brauchen, um nach der Erwachsenheit zu überleben.
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Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
Und zum anderen bieten sie eine einzigartige, bezahlbare Möglichkeit für junge Ältere, die aus dem Pflegesystem ausgewachsen sind, Geld zu machen und zurückzugeben.
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Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
doing is really really cool and unique it's a seven year program where every year they select eight kids starting their freshman year of high school and they are paired up with eight mentors and it's very new the first group of kids are actually entering their second year now but year one is all just about establishing a relationship between the child and their mentor trust is something that can be really difficult for foster kids to develop with someone new
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Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
for obvious reasons and so that's really the first thing that they're working on building so once a week they'll go out to breakfast with their mentor and then twice a month the whole cohort does a group outing like seeing a movie or going paintballing going go-karting and then every quarter the mentors and students will meet to learn about life skills related to their acronym which is wheels w h e e l s it stands for wealth health education emotion life skills and spiritual
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
Und es ist das Curriculum, das ihre Mentoren entwickelt haben, um die Studenten für das Leben zu vorbereiten, nachdem sie aus dem Pflegeheim auswachsen. Und es war so cool, das von Barry zu lernen. Du kannst nur sagen, wie wirklich passioniert er ist, um helfen zu können. Und das ist nicht alles, was er gemacht hat. Er und sein Geschäftspartner haben auch eine generelle Kontraktionsfirma.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
Which he will tell you more about in a minute. But just to give you a little background on it, basically Baron wanted to find a way to take things a step further for kids who have aged out of the system. He really does care very deeply about giving these young adults real opportunities to succeed in life. Es geht nicht nur darum, jemandem einen Hinweis oder einen Job zu geben.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
My daughter also had jaundice and was put under the lights at the hospital for a couple of days because she had a pretty severe case of it. So I know there are probably so many of you out there who understand jaundice and babies and sort of the process of dealing with it. But if you aren't familiar with it, it happens when there's an excessive buildup of bilirubin in the blood.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
Er hat viel darüber gesprochen, wie wichtig es für ihn ist, dass diese jungen Männer Zielsetzungen setzen und Leidenschaft in der Leben finden und lernen, wie sie in der Arbeit navigieren und Unternehmen organisieren, damit sie einen eigenen starten können.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
Und ich habe nie die Möglichkeit gehabt, tatsächlich zu einem Überlebenden auf dem Show zu sprechen. Heute werde ich von Baron Lee, der... I can't even put into words how much respect I have for this man, how much I like him. He is an incredible human in so many different ways.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
Now, I'm sure you guys feel the same way about Baron as I do. He is truly an amazing person. And once again, I just wanted to say thank you, Baron, for taking the time to come on my show. Like I said on the phone, I really hope you and I get the chance to meet in person one day. And I just... Ich glaube, du hast so viel zu bieten in diesem Weltraum und du inspirierst mich wirklich.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
Und ich meine das mit meinem ganzen Herzen. Und ich bin auch so inspiriert von allem, was Route 21 tut. Ich finde es wirklich cool. Ich würde gerne mehr Programme wie dieses auf der ganzen Welt sehen. Ich weiß, dass wahrscheinlich einige existieren, aber wir brauchen definitiv mehr. Untertitelung des ZDF, 2020 Und ja, du hast das richtig gehört.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
And there are many different ways of reducing the levels of bilirubin. And depending on how high they are, it can require different levels of treatment. And obviously, the higher the levels, the more dangerous it can be. Well, when they noticed that Eric was developing that yellow skin that you see in babies with jaundice, they called the birthing center to ask what to do.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
Barron hat noch nicht legalen Behandlung seines Sohnes. Er hat physische Behandlung, aber nicht legalen Behandlung verhindert, dass er nicht möglich ist, wichtige Entscheidungen über Erics Leben zu machen, wie seine Gesundheit, die er tun muss.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
So I'll be sure to have that link tree in the show notes or description box of this episode. And I really want to encourage you guys to follow along. Baron is constantly posting updates about his case and about Eric and all the things that he's advocating for. And I know that having support from you guys would just mean the world to him.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
Und sie wurden gesagt, dass sie alles, was sie tun mussten, war, Baby Eric in etwas Sonnenlicht zu legen, was ist etwas, was man oft gesagt wird, wenn wir das Krankenhaus verlassen, nachdem meine Tochter behandelt wurde und ihre Billy Rubin-Levels begonnen haben, haben sie uns gesagt, um sie etwas indirekte Sonnenlicht zu legen, weil es passiert.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
And also, like you heard, if you are a lawyer or know a lawyer that can potentially help him with his custody case, that would be... Ja. Und wiederum ist es ein großer Grund, warum er für die gleiche Behandlung von Männern und Mädchen antwortet. Und ich möchte euch noch einmal das Motto von Baron erinnern, das ist etwas, das ich denke, wir können alle in einer Art und Weise leben können.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
Leben kann mich schlagen, aber es kann mich nicht schlagen. Und es gibt einfach etwas so Powervolles über diese Worte. Vielen Dank. Untertitelung. BR 2018
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
Und natürlich waren sie erstmals Eltern, also haben sie nur vertraut, dass das der beste Hinweis war. Und in vielen Fällen ist es guter Hinweis. Aber am 8. Tag war er nicht besser. In Wahrheit war es tatsächlich schlimmer und er sah sich sehr ungeheuer aus. Also haben sie ihn zu ihrem Familienarzt genommen, der Eric angeschaut hat.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
Vielen Dank. Vielen Dank. Untertitelung. BR 2018
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
Und das erste, was er ihnen gesagt hat, war, dass sie ihn in den Unfallzimmer in Seattle Children's Hospital bringen mussten, sofort. And I want to have Baron himself explain what they learned and how that resulted in the disabilities that Eric still lives with to this day. When my daughter was younger and on the baby food train still, she was eating all kinds of veggies and loving it.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
And I thought I had a miracle child. Turns out, as soon as they're a toddler, that is all over, at least for my daughter. And I know a lot of people have similar experiences. So that's why I opt for adding a children's vitamin into her diet.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
But most typical children's vitamins are basically candy in disguise, filled with two teaspoons of sugar, unhealthy chemicals and other gummy additives that growing kids should never eat.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
Und das ist der Grund, warum Haya eine super powerierte, schmutzige Vitamin-Vitamin-Vitamin-Vitamin-Vitamin-Vitamin-Vitamin-Vitamin-Vitamin-Vitamin-Vitamin-Vitamin-Vitamin-Vitamin-Vitamin-Vitamin-Vitamin-Vitamin-Vitamin-Vitamin-Vitamin-Vitamin-Vitamin-Vitamin-Vitamin-Vitamin-Vitamin Vielen Dank. Bis zum nächsten Mal.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
The story of what he went through alone when it comes to the crime that he survived, which is, you're going to just be blown away by that alone. But his entire life and the things that he is still doing to this day, he is a remarkable human and I am truly honored to get to have him here.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
H-I-Y-A-H-E-A-L-T-H dot com slash TCKR and get your kids the full body nourishment that they need to grow into healthy adults.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
truly baron thank you for taking the time to come on the show and tell your story and also spread a very multiple very important messages that i hope you guys will really take to heart and try to understand because the things that he is fighting for just are not being talked about enough i've had the opportunity to talk to him over the phone and just listening to the passion in his voice and how badly he wants to see change in the world was so inspiring and so right off the bat i'm going to ask you to
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Baron Li Survives 9 Gunshots & Is Here To Tell His Story
I'm really glad you guys got to see Eric there and I think it's very obvious how much Baron truly cares for his son, loves him more than anything in the world and would do anything to make sure that he gets the best care and is able to live the best life possible. And fun fact about Eric, I loved this, but he has seen Moana over 2,000 times, which to me...
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
But the reality is, there are a lot of people who do. Now, personally, I think there's nothing wrong with using psychedelics. I'm actually very pro psychedelics. I personally... Ich denke nicht, dass ich sie an einem Musikfestival behandeln könnte, aber für viele Leute ist es eine tolle Erfahrung, aber es kann auch eine schlechte Erfahrung sein.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
Ich meine, ich bin sicher, dass viele von euch da draußen schlechte Reisen hatten oder schlechte Reisen gehört haben und wissen, was passieren kann. Nun, wir wissen für einen Fakt, dass Kevin Weed getrunken hat, was sehr normal ist. Viele Leute tun das und das war kein Geheimnis für jemanden.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
Und ich weiß gar nicht, was Kevin, ich meine, niemand weiß, was Kevin das Wochenende gemacht hat, ob es nur Psychedelik war oder ob es etwas gefährlicher war. Ich würde dir wirklich sagen, wenn ich mehr wusste, ich versuche nicht, nichts über sein Leben zu verstecken. Wir wissen nur, ja, wir wissen es wirklich nicht. Ich habe das jetzt fünfmal gesagt, aber...
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
I will warn you though, this case is frustrating and when it comes to law enforcement, don't even get me started. I mean, there were times looking into this case that I genuinely could not believe the words I was hearing coming out of the lead investigator's mouth. Es gibt viel zu sagen hier, also fangen wir an.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
Für seine Familie wussten sie, was bei diesen Festivals passiert. Sein Vater sagte ihm, bevor er nach Hause ging, dass er nicht auf etwas festgehalten werden würde, was er schmerzen würde. Kevin sagte ihm sogar, dass er das nicht tun würde. Er sagte, dass er einfach hochgehen und einen guten Tag haben würde.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
Ich weiß, dass, weil es die Internetseite ist, die Leute verschiedene Opinionen über Drogen im Allgemeinen haben werden und Gedanken darüber haben, ob er Drogen benutzt hat oder nicht. Und, du weißt, ich werde dich nicht stoppen, von diesen Opinionen zu haben, aber ich möchte dir erinnern, dass es sich nicht um...
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
Was jemand in ihrer Leben gemacht hat oder wer eine Person ist, bedeutet nicht, dass sie keine weniger wertvolle Gerechtigkeit haben. Und ich weiß, dass die meisten von euch das wissen, dass ihr mir das täglich zeigen könnt. Und das ist, weshalb ich so stolz auf meinen Publikum bin. Ich weiß, dass ihr nicht hier seid, um Verbrecher zu beurteilen.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
Und es gibt keinen Grund, dass Kevin verurteilt werden sollte. Besonders, weil wir keine Ahnung haben, ob er Drogen gemacht hat oder nicht. Oder welche Drogen er hätte machen können, wenn er das Wochenende gemacht hätte. Wir haben einfach keine Ahnung. But as always, I just want to put out that little reminder, you know, that if you're going to leave a comment, think before you do so.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
Because you never know who's going to read these comments and it's quite possible that Kevin's friends and family could read them. And another reason I bring this all up is because there was a ton of judgment from investigators, which I truly believe that investigators should not be there to judge a person on something like that.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
All of that will definitely be a larger conversation later on, so I'm sort of jumping ahead, but let's get back to the timeline. So, on Monday the 2nd, the festival was over, and that's the day that people, you know, pack up and leave.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
And I don't think Kevin's family was necessarily expecting to hear from him first thing in the morning, but like I mentioned earlier, he had made plans with his family right before he left. As a reminder, he told his dad he would help out with things around the house, and he told his sister Kelly that he wanted to talk about that video that she sent him.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
So at the very least, both of them expected to eventually hear from him. But they didn't end up hearing from Kevin at all. But they did hear from his girlfriend, Kate. Now I'm not exactly sure what time the call came in, but that day Gary and Kathy were driving home from Kentucky when they got a call from Kate saying that Kevin was missing.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
Sie hat erklärt, zumindest in dieser Version ihrer Geschichte, dass gestern, der 1., sie und Kevin an einem der Festivalszene waren, als sie in einen Kampf geraten haben. Sie hat gesagt, dass er super überrascht war, und so hat er entschieden, zurück in den Tent zu gehen, um sich zu kühlen. Aber als sie später zurück in den Tent kamen, war er nicht da.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
And she said at first it didn't really worry her that much because she thought he probably just went to another stage and was watching another performance or something like that. But then he didn't return that night and then he didn't return the next morning either. She told his parents that she and two other friends had tried to look for him. But eventually, they had to leave.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
I mean, as I mentioned earlier, she had two kids and she said to Gary on the phone that they looked and looked and looked, but I had to go home. And in that moment, Gary understood. From what I understand, he wasn't immediately on high alert about the situation and he figured he'd give his son a call and it would all be figured out that evening.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
Und wie immer werde ich anfangen, dir mehr über Kevin Graves zu erzählen und wer er war. Kevin Gary Graves wurde in Michigan geboren und geboren zu seinen Eltern Gary und Kathy. Und er hatte eine Schwester Kelly, die sechs und eine halbe Jahre älter als ihn war. Er hatte auch zwei Halbsiblinge, einen Bruder und eine Schwester aus seinem Vaters erstes Verheirat.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
But as he and Kathy were driving home from Kentucky, they weren't able to reach him. And his phone was just going straight to voicemail. But of course, his parents... Wir beginnen, uns zu interessieren. Und so, als sie es wieder nach Hause gemacht haben, endete Gary wieder an Kate zu rufen.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
Und während dieses Rufs hat sie speziell Gary gesagt, dass sie zurück nach den Festivalgründen mit ihm gehen wollte und versuchen würde, Kevin zu suchen. Ich meine, nach allem, sie war mit ihm an dem Tag und sie wusste die Festivalgründe besser als seine Eltern. Aber einen Tag später, am 3., hat Kate Gary angerufen, dass sie bereits mit ihrem Vater da war.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
Which Gary thought was kind of strange, because literally the day before she had told him that she wanted to go back up there with him. But anyway, he and his other son ended up getting in the car and they drove up to the festival grounds to meet them there.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
Now, when Gary and his son got there, Kate and her dad were already in Muskegon, which is about 25 minutes south of where the festival grounds were, in Rothbury. But according to a YouTube documentary that was released recently on the case, Kate, her dad, Gary and his son then proceeded to go to the festival grounds where they all began to look for him. Remember though, this was over 2,000 acres.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
So Gary and his son ended up staying through the weekend to cover as much ground as they could. And this is a bit of a tangent, but I just wanted to mention again that YouTube documentary. It's made by a small YouTube channel. And there's some great interviews with their family in it. And I definitely want to support them. So I'm going to have that link below.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
But I had to mention that there is a song in the documentary that was clearly specifically written for Kevin. And it is beautiful. I mean, it brought me to tears. And so I... Can't play the whole thing for you, but I wanted to play a little snippet of it and I suggest you go take a look at the documentary and they play it towards the end. I'm getting choked up just thinking about it.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
It's such a beautiful song, so I just wanted to share.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
I couldn't find any information about who created that song, but whoever did, thank you. I'm sure it means so much to their family. Like I said, it's just beautiful. But going back to Gary and his efforts, another thing that he did, which was very smart, was try and go to the bank to see if there had been any activity on Kevin's account.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
One thing that I really respect this family for is they have always kept it real when it comes to describing Kevin. I mean, they've expressed that he wasn't perfect, of course, because who is? And he had his fair share of poor choices, especially when he was younger, as a teenager. And I mean, what teenager did not make poor choices, right? I mean, I feel like every teenager did.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
The problem, though, was that Kevin and Kate shared a bank account, and since Gary wasn't listed as someone online, Die Bankmanagerin war super nett und hat ihm gesagt, dass es keine Aktivität gab. Sie hat ihn auch ein paar Tage später angerufen, als es Aktivität gab. Es scheint, dass Kate einige Karten geschrieben hat. Und als Erinnerung, Kevin und Kate haben diese Bankkarte geteilt.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
Und bevor Sie zu irgendwelchen Schlussfolgerungen kommen, haben alle Berichte, die ich in diesem Fall gesehen habe, gesagt, dass Kate diese Karten auf behalf von Kevin geschrieben hat. Kevin hatte ein paar Lohns raus, und so war sie beruflich mit dem Geld verwendet, um sicherzustellen, dass er nichts verursacht, wenn er zurückkehrt.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
Aber es gibt definitiv noch andere Dinge, die es schwieriger zu ignorieren sind. Aber das gesagt, die Dinge mit Kate haben eigentlich angefangen, ziemlich hilfreich zu sein. Sie und sein Schwester Kelley haben sich in der Anfangszeit verabschiedet. Sie haben sich ausgesprochen, die Krankenhäuser und Gefängnisse und überall, wo sie denken, dass Kevin möglich sein könnte.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
Sie hat sich auch in Facebook-Gruppen geholfen, um Leute zu suchen, die Kevin im Hintergrund ihres Festivals-Fotos sehen. Sie hat sich oft mit seiner Familie kommuniziert und hat Angst gezeigt. Alle Dinge, die lediglich dazu führten, dass sie an ihrer Seite war. Aber in den drei Wochen, nachdem Kevin verschwunden war, begannen Dinge zu wechseln.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
Das war dann, als sie sich von einigen von Kevins Sachen entfernt hat und seine Familie gefragt hat, was sie wollen. Und wie Sie sich vorstellen können, war es nur drei Wochen. Und das hat seine Familie in den Mund gebracht. Sie fühlten auch, dass ihr Verhalten während einiger der Suche-Effekte etwas falsch war.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
Seine Schwester sagte spezifisch, dass sie fühlte, als wäre sie ein Auferstandener, der helfen wollte, nicht jemand, der Kevin seit Jahren verheiratet hatte. Aber der große Wendepunkt, als es Kate kam, war, als sie ihre gesamte Familie plötzlich blockierte. Und ich meine, sie blockierte sie auf allem, ihre sozialen Medien, ihre Telefonnummern, alles.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
Innerhalb von nur ein paar Wochen ging sie von jemandem, der an ihrer Seite war, zu jemandem, der sich gegen sie arbeitete. Zumindest ist das die Meinung von Kevins Familie. And I'm sure you're wondering why, because that's pretty strange. Why would she block his entire family? And to better explain why she blocked them, I need to go back and explain the situation with the police.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
So basically, when I started digging into this case, I realized pretty quickly that the details about him being reported missing are...
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
quite confusing some sources only say that kate reported him missing on the third but in that youtube documentary i was telling you about gary and kathy talk about how they reported him missing on the second they did also mention that kate reported him missing too so i'm pretty sure it was both of them either way though that doesn't really change how this report was handled which was
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
Ganz ehrlich, schrecklich. Im Grunde, lange Geschichte, als Kevins Eltern zuerst den Bericht verabschiedeten, nannten sie die Michigan State Police. Aber sie wurden gesagt, dass sie den Bericht in der Stadt, in der Kevin lebt, in Highland Township verabschieden mussten. Was keinen Sinn macht, wenn er drei Stunden von dort weg war.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
But anyway, the Oakland County Sheriff's Office, who represents Highland Township, ended up being the ones investigating his disappearance. And he gave his parents the whole, he's an adult, he can leave if he wants, you know, that whole runaround. And so their family desperately fought for his case to be turned over to the state police. But that would have required the police to care.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
And as you'll continue to hear throughout this episode, they just didn't. Und bevor ich mehr dazu erzähle, muss ich zuerst erklären, wie das mit Kate zu blockieren gehört. Und ich weiß, dass ich hier viel rübergekommen bin. Ich verspreche, dass das der beste Weg ist, es zu erklären, damit es Sinn macht. Ich meine, zumindest wie mein Gehirn funktioniert.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
Und wenn ich das sage, möchte ich es klar machen, es gab nichts Schreckliches. Aber ja, sie waren immer sehr ehrlich, dass er nicht immer die besten Entscheidungen gemacht hat. Aber das eine, was ich am meisten über Kevin gehört habe, ist, dass er nur jemand war, der ein Goldes Herz hatte. Wenn Kevin etwas gemacht hat, hat er es bis zum vollsten Ausdruck gemacht.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
Also bevor sie sie blockiert hat, als sie immer noch hilfreich war, hat sie seiner Schwester Kelly die Namen und Telefonnummern der beiden Menschen gegeben, mit denen sie zum Festival ging. Justin and Anna. Well, she had communicated with them and generally speaking, felt like they were answering her basic questions.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
And around that time, Kelly also spoke to the lead investigator on the case, Sergeant David Bach. And when she was speaking to him, she mentions these two other friends, Justin and Anna. You know, the people that he went to the festival with. And you guys... The investigator didn't even know that he had gone to the festival with anyone else. He thought it was just him and Kate.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
Which means not only did his girlfriend Kate not even tell him, but he also didn't even bother to ask. And so around this time, Kelly is realizing that investigators really... Didn't seem to be doing their job. And so she started kind of pressing on his girlfriend Kate a little bit more. And part of that was asking her if she would help them get access to Kevin's phone records.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
Now, Kevin was actually on a phone plan with Kate and her mom. And at first she said she would ask her mom. But then they all just get blocked. And to this day, at least to my understanding, and this blows my mind, Kevin's phone records have never been looked into. Not by Kate, not by her mom, and not by police.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
And of course, after she just randomly blocks their entire family, that's when the tides really started to turn. And, I mean, I won't speak for their family, but the vibe that I grasped is that at this point they really started to question her a lot. However, and I want to be super clear here, Kate has never been named a suspect in Kevin's case.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
And law enforcement seems to have always had her back. And in my opinion, and again, this is my opinion, the people investigating this case, I don't think ever really took Kevin's disappearance that seriously at all. And I think they failed to consider some pretty important factors, such as Kate's changing story of what happened.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
I mean, at first she told law enforcement the same thing that she told Kevin's family, which is that they had gotten to an argument and he had walked off and she never saw him again. But then she ends up adding more details. When speaking with law enforcement, she was now adding that Kevin had been acting paranoid all week long.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
und sie verurteilt hat, dass er wirklich seltsame Dinge gemacht hat, z.B. dass er ihn aus der FBI rausgezogen hat. Sie hat auch gesagt, dass Kevin sie verurteilt hat, dass er mit Justin verabschiedet wurde, was in diesem Fall wichtig ist, also behalten Sie das in Erinnerung.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
Eine andere Sache, die sie den Untersuchern erzählt hat, ist, dass sie, als sie seine Beziehungen packte, Zirinchen gefunden hat, was, wenn das wahr ist, offensichtlich zeigt, dass Kevin vielleicht auf mehr ernsthafte Drogen war und vielleicht ist das ein Grund für seinen Verlust.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
Nun, ich möchte hier super klar sein, dass Kevin mit seiner mentalen Gesundheit kämpfte, und manchmal könnte er paranoid sein. Aber der Punkt, den ich wirklich nach Hause bringen möchte, ist, dass, auch wenn das wahr ist, es keinen Grund gibt, dass Investoren ihn davon geschrieben haben, weil davon. In meiner Meinung nach, haben sie das gemacht.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
Sie haben direkt eine andere Version von der Geschichte von Justin gehört, und trotzdem sagen sie, dass nichts Nefarisches passiert ist. Und lasst uns über diese andere Geschichte sprechen, denn, laut Justin, war er der letzte, der Kevin gesehen hat.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
Sometime around or after this supposed fight with Kate, Justin says that he and Kevin wanted to go see some music, just the two of them, while Kate was taking a nap in the tent. And this is apparently when Kevin started acting super erratically and was trying to rip off his wristband. He said it was all just super weird and then Kevin just sort of walked away.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
Und es war immer mit den besten Intentionen. Und er war nur jemand, der Entscheidungen aufgrund seines Herzens gemacht hat, nicht unbedingt aufgrund seines Herzens, was ihn sicherlich in ein paar Träumen getroffen hat. Und persönlich sind Leute wie das die Typen der Leute sind, mit denen ich am meisten gravitate. Die Leute, die so in Kontakt mit ihren Emotionen sind.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
And this is when he said he last saw him. Which obviously is just not the same story that Kate initially told, which I learned eventually she did start telling the story the exact same way that Justin did.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
But if it wasn't the same story that she was telling from the beginning, which you would think at that point it would have been the clearest in her mind, I can definitely see how as Kevin's loved ones... You would start feeling suspicious about Kate and honestly just disappointed. At times the Graves have expressed not wanting to get anyone in trouble, they just want answers.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
This was their child and there's nothing they wanted and still want more than to just know what happened to him. And then there was even a point where Anna, the other friend, got on Facebook and said that she was the last person to see him. And it's possible, maybe even likely, that none of these versions of events are true.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
And I say that because there were a few witnesses from that night who described something much different. In both Kate and Justin's stories, Kevin disappeared during the day. However, witnesses who were near their tents said that something happened with Kevin that night. One witness said he actually met Kevin at the festival and that he was a super down-to-earth dude.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
Which is why he was so bothered by the fact that Kevin was being viciously bullied by the people he was with on the night of July 1st. This witness said he overheard arguing and that overall it just sounded really nasty and at the time he didn't want to get into the middle of it, but in hindsight he wishes that he did.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
And then there was another witness that night who said she also heard fighting coming from their tent. Now, this witness was a woman and she said that she had gotten into an argument with her husband. And so she went back to their tent to, you know, just kind of cool off and get some space.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
And while she was just walking around trying to actually get cell reception, she heard some commotion coming from Kevin's tent. And this all happened in the span of like 10 minutes. But she says that she overheard them gang up on Kevin and say horrible things to him like, you piece of shit, as he stood there sobbing and begging them to stop.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
This witness also heard Kevin say things like, you promised you wouldn't do this again and you told me you would stop this. And remember earlier how I explained that Kate said that Kevin had accused her of cheating on him. Well, that part Kevin's family thinks is true.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
There was some speculation, keyword speculation, that maybe Kate was doing whatever with Justin and that this was really upsetting to Kevin. As, you know, most of us could understand it would be very upsetting if your girlfriend was... doing something with your friend.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
Und ich fühle mich so, wie ich in vielen Fällen bin. Ich denke wirklich oft mit meinem Herzen, nicht mit meinem Kopf. Und es hat mich nicht immer in die besten Situationen getroffen, aber es ist etwas, was ich mich nie über mich selbst verändern würde. Und ich denke, es ist ein großartiger Persönlichkeitsstil, den Kevin hatte.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
And I'm not saying any of this is true, of course this is all speculation, but his family believes that it may be the case that Kevin had walked in on Kate and Justin doing something that he wasn't supposed to see and that's what sparked his disappearance. And I haven't explained this yet, but Kevin was bipolar.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
And about two months before this, he had actually got off his medication because he didn't like the side effects. And so he was someone who had really big emotions on both sides of the spectrum. So to hear that he was noticeably upset, so much so that a stranger could overhear it, that felt like he was pretty on point. But to be clear, this witness said he didn't sound violent, he just sounded...
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
Obviously, at the end of the day, we don't know what happened. But I just wanted to share that Kevin's family has definitely expressed concern about these stories not matching up. But from this witness's recounting of events, there was this big fight and eventually it stopped.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
Sie glaubt, dass sie nach und nach in die Gegend gegangen ist, ich glaube, nur noch versuchen, eine Telefonanruf zu bekommen. Und sie hat die meisten von dem, was passiert ist, gehört, aber erinnert sich an einen Punkt, wo das Argument vorbei war. Aber sie hat Kevin nie weggegangen. Sie erinnert sich auch nicht an einen einzigen Menschen, der ihn am nächsten Morgen gefragt hat.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
Nun, ihr Campspazier war nur drei oder vier von ihnen runter, und sie glaubten, sie hätten umgekehrt, um ihn zu suchen. Aber sie sagt, dass niemand je bei ihrer Tent stoppte. Untertitelung des ZDF, 2020 Untertitelung des ZDF, 2020 Untertitelung des ZDF, 2020 Untertitelung. BR 2018 Untertitelung des ZDF, 2020 Untertitelung des ZDF, 2020
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
Sein Herz, seine Kindheit, seine Möglichkeit, Liebe zu teilen und andere gut zu machen, ist das, was Kevin, wer er war, gemacht hat. Kevin war auch ein sehr emotionaler Kerl mit vielen großen Gefühlen. Und er liebte sehr tief und sehr passioniert. Zum Beispiel, seine Schwester ging nach der Schule und...
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
Untertitelung des ZDF, 2020 Untertitelung des ZDF, 2020 Untertitelung. BR 2018 Untertitelung des ZDF, 2020 Untertitelung des ZDF, 2020 Untertitelung des ZDF, 2020 Untertitelung des ZDF, 2020 Untertitelung des ZDF, 2020 Untertitelung des ZDF, 2020 Untertitelung des ZDF, 2020 Untertitelung des ZDF, 2020 Untertitelung. BR 2018 Untertitelung des ZDF, 2020 Untertitelung des ZDF, 2020
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
Die beiden sind sehr, sehr nahe, aber sie kam am nächsten Wochenende nachdem sie weg war, um ein paar Dinge zu holen, die sie vergessen hatte. Und ihre Schule war nicht so weit weg. Also als sie nach Hause kam und Kevin bemerkte, dass sie nach Hause war, brachte er in Tränen, obwohl sie nur eine Woche weg war.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
Ich habe einfach genossen, dass ich das kleine Detail über ihn hörte und dass er so in Kontakt mit seinen Emotionen war und seine Familie und seine Freunde so sehr liebte. Aber ich meine, wie ich gesagt habe, er und seine Schwester waren sehr, sehr, sehr nahe.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
Hallo, alle und willkommen zurück zu True Crime with Kendall Rae. Vielen Dank, wie immer, für die Einladung heute. Und wenn ihr neu seid, dann willkommen. Ich bin so glücklich, euch zu haben. Also, Leute, heute werden wir einen Blick auf einen Fall nehmen, den ich seit einiger Zeit auf meinem Radar hatte. Und gerade über die Weihnachten gab es eine große...
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
Untertitelung des ZDF, 2020 Untertitelung. BR 2018 Und hier ist eine Liste von einigen Dingen, die sie gefragt haben, für die ich denke, dass sie alle sehr sinnvoll sind.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
Now, when it came to his own school experience, Kevin didn't necessarily thrive in the traditional school model, which, again, is another reason why I think I would be good friends with Kevin, because I am the exact same way. And I find that people who don't thrive in the traditional school model are some of the most interesting and creative people and loving people out there. Not that you can't
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
Eine Entschuldigung, dass er letztes Jahr auf dem Gebäude verabschiedet wurde, was er im Grunde genommen schlug und nicht machte, um Kevin's Flyer auf dem großen Bildschirm zu stellen während des Events, zu dem er gesagt hat, dass er es nicht macht.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
Und letztlich, dass seine Mitarbeiter Flyer an die Leute geben, als sie an den Festival-Grunden entstanden sind, zu dem er gesagt hat, dass die Leute sie einfach auf den Grund legen würden. So they ended up getting screwed again, because genuinely, none of those things would be that difficult to do. I mean, at least he could have done a couple of those things. But yet he did none of that.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
Vielen Dank für's Zuschauen. And when he started teaching Kevin, you know, the ropes of all of that, it was clear that's where he really shined. His dad said that he was the kind of guy that you could teach something one time and he would just never forget it. In his early adulthood, he had mechanic jobs, carpentry jobs, construction jobs, you name it.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
The only thing he offered to do was put flyers at the information booth, which wouldn't really have done much at all. And that was it. Overall, it was just a giant slap in the face and I'm just glad that they ended up getting that billboard put up because that is just so awesome and very smart.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
And if you think about it, it was actually put up before that meeting, which makes me think the CEO just wanted to talk to them to see if they would take it down before the festival started. But they definitely didn't take it down. In fact, the manager of Lamar Advertising in the area said that she would leave it up longer for free, so long as nobody else rented the space.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
So yeah, needless to say, this has been a huge emotional rollercoaster for this family throughout the years. And they're just very hurt overall by how everything has been handled.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
A $10,000 Reward for information was posted almost as soon as Kevin was reported missing. And in 2023, Gary said he doesn't care if he goes broke trying to find him. Their whole family desperately didn't want people to forget about Kevin. But as the five-year mark came and went, they were worried that that's what was happening.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
With the lack of investigative work, they had to be his voice and even find and turn over their own evidence. Now, this next part was really interesting to me. Okay, so Kevin's girlfriend, Kate, at the time, or I guess I should say ex-girlfriend now, because she did end up going on and getting married to someone else. And there were rumors that she was dating Justin for a period of time.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
They're just rumors. I don't know if it was true. And the guy that she ended up marrying is not Justin. But anyway, this guy, her new husband, ends up getting in contact with Gary and told him that his wife, Kate... knew more about Kevin's disappearance than she was saying. And I guess he was so nervous when he was telling him this that he was actually shaking.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
But yeah, he told him that she knows more than she is telling you. Now, Gary actually got permission from him to record him saying this. And he did. And then he turned it over to investigators. And to this day, he has not heard anything from them about it. In fact, Sergeant Bach has openly stated that he does not suspect Kate because she doesn't have any motive.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
And he's essentially just written Kevin off as a druggie and therefore his disappearance isn't worth looking into. I mean, I don't think he said those words exactly. Maybe he has, I don't know, but that's definitely the vibe his family feels. And honestly, this case should have never gone to the Oakland County Sheriff's Office to begin with. And the sheriff has literally said that.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
Gary gab eine Interview in 2023, wo er sagte, dass er mit dem Oakland County Sheriff gesprochen hat, der ihn gefragt hat, warum seine Männer diesen Fall im ersten Moment haben. Also waren sie so verwirrt, als ob sie es investieren, wie seine Familie es war. Gary hat auch gesagt, dass sie unter der Vorstellung waren, dass der Fall über die Staatspolizei geändert werden würde.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
Aber das ist nicht passiert. Na, eventuell hat es das getan, aber nicht, wenn sie es wollten. Nicht, wenn es wirklich geklärt hätte. Eventually it was handed over to Michigan State Police, but only because of what happened on December 30th of 2024. So very recently. And this is where I'm finally getting to the big update that recently happened.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
And I'm sure a lot of you in the true crime community have already heard this update or figured out what happened. It was, just by the way I've been speaking. But that day, after nearly six and a half years without answers, human remains were discovered by two hunters clearing a path in a wooded area only a hundred yards from where Kevin's campsite was. Can you believe that? Only a hundred yards.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
That blew my mind. It hadn't been confirmed that the remains belonged to Kevin. However, they believed with 99% certainty that it was him, given that his phone and wallet were also found nearby.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
The following day, on New Year's Eve, Gary and Kathy got a call and were soon met at their front door with the news. And I guess Kathy just collapsed into Gary's arms and they moved to the couch where the two of them were told the news. Although, of course, they already knew what was about to be said. But just hearing it was something that they could never have been prepared for.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
Even after all that time and, you know, their gut feeling that he probably wasn't alive... They always had that sliver of hope, and now that sliver was gone. And since his remains were found only one day prior, they still, like I said, didn't know with 100% certainty that it was Kevin, but they were told that they would have those answers soon. And that confirmation came on January 2nd, 2025.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
Michigan State Police, with the help of forensic anthropologists from Western Michigan University's medical school, were able to confirm through dental records that it was in fact the body of Kevin Gary Graves. Und wegen der Zeit, in der sein Körper draußen war, waren seine Blechschmerzen leider skeletonisiert. Und natürlich bedeutet das, dass es noch schwieriger wird, seinen Tod zu beurteilen.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
Und gerade jetzt wird es berichtet, dass sie keine fehlenden Spuren haben, aber bis ein Autopsie komplett ist, besonders mit dem, wie lange es gedauert hat, I'm not going to take any early reporting on that as fact. Over the last six and a half years, this family has been continually disrespected by law enforcement.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
They were made to believe that their son chose to abandon him and that his life choices were to blame, when that couldn't have been further from the truth. And while we don't know the cause of death yet, it's because of their apathetic investigation that his family might never even get those answers. I mean, he was right there.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
They very easily could have found him if they took this seriously from the jump, which they just chose not to. They chose, you know, to write him off as a druggie, in my opinion. And it's infuriating because unless he sustained blunt force trauma, it will be very difficult to determine a cause of death with what little remains of him.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
In fact, after Kevin went missing, and I loved this detail, his most recent employer said that if he ever returned, they would welcome him back with open arms, that he would always have a job there, which, you know, Which says a lot about how much they cared for him and how good he was at his job. And that comment, that support meant a lot to his family.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
And what's really maddening is if just one person had made the effort to just ping his phone, this family might have been saved from years of misery. It's even possible that an autopsy might lead to more questions than answers. And really, that's the last thing they need. And at this point, they don't want anyone to be punished. They just want to know the truth so that they can... Ja, genau.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
Ich weiß nicht. Ich denke, die Chancen sind, dass die Leute mehr wissen, als was sie sagen. Und natürlich weiß ich das nicht, um Fakt zu sein. Aber sie definitiv, ihre Familie definitiv glaubt, dass die Leute mehr wissen, als was sie sagen. Und all they are asking for is those answers.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
I don't know. It's hard to describe the way that she must be feeling. I mean, only really she could probably describe it. But yeah, it just pisses me off. Like she said, he was only 100 yards away. And those search efforts were meticulous too. And I'm sure that just brings a whole new level of sadness, knowing that he was there potentially all along.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
For Kathy, she says that she hates the word closure. Yeah. And she understands that people mean well when they say it, but to her it puts some sort of finality to something that will truly never be final, because at the end of the day, they haven't gotten those answers. They don't know what happened to him. I have a big hole in my heart that will never be filled.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
Now at the time Kevin went missing, he was only 28 years old. And in his 20s, he had gotten really into EDM music. Kevin had a girlfriend and she was also very into EDM music. So I think that was probably something they bonded over quite a bit. Now, his girlfriend is someone that you're going to hear me talk about quite a bit throughout this episode.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
So many things just still don't sit right with them. And it's been really difficult to fathom that he was right there all along.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
Ja, wir können nicht genug sagen.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
And despite feeling like law enforcement really dropped the ball, and I definitely personally agree with them on that, they have been very outspoken about their appreciation for the public. And I also wanted to note, they've said that they especially admire the small community of Rothbury, who they say never hesitated to help. Overall, this is just a really frustrating and baffling case.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
And I know there are going to be people, and I understand this, that think that Kevin may have just wandered off. Maybe he had taken some drugs and something horrible but accidental happened. And of course, that could be a possibility. But I really don't think other factors in this case can be ignored. I mean, when you think about it, why were there multiple stories?
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
Why did his girlfriend ultimately refuse to help this family? Why did she block Their families phone numbers and social media. I mean, these are just a few of the things that their family wants answers to. And as I sit here, all I can do is hope that they one day get those answers. I am hopeful that maybe they can pull some information off of his phone now that they have it.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
And I'm sure that that's probably in process or going to happen soon, hopefully. But even if that's the case, that's... Und hier ein paar Dinge über Kate, die ich... haven't mentioned yet. She actually does have an extensive criminal background, including several felony weapons charges, but of course that doesn't make her a killer.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
In case any of you were wondering, the car that she drove up there was never searched, and she ended up selling it not long after Kevin disappeared. This is something that the Graves family has always wondered about, and unfortunately they may also never get those answers.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
At the end of the day, this family believes that something happened to him on those festival grounds, and they just aren't going to stop fighting for those answers. But even if someone didn't do something to him, they do believe that at least someone has more information than they are sharing.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
However, I'm just going to upfront say that when it comes to his girlfriend, there is a lot of drama and she doesn't seem to be someone who wants to be publicly named when it comes to coverage. And she hasn't been named a person of interest. So I have decided that I won't be sharing her real name. There are a couple of people in this case that I won't be mentioning by name, but I've made...
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
I know opinions are going to be all over the board on this one, so I definitely want to hear your thoughts. But I just, you know, want to remind you again to be thoughtful about your comments and remember that every victim deserves the same opportunity for justice. Okay? Let me know what you think. My heart truly goes out to this family.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
What a devastating loss and a horrific experience they have had since the day that he disappeared. I just hope so badly that they can get some answers and some peace one day. Das war's für heute, Leute. Danke, dass ihr mitgekommen seid. Und folgt dem Show auf Spotify und Apple Podcasts. Das hilft mir wirklich.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
Wenn ihr die Video-Version von diesem Show sehen wollt, könnt ihr es auf meinem YouTube-Kanal finden, der verlinkt wird. Oder ihr könnt einfach Kendall Rae suchen. Ich werde bald wieder mit einem anderen Episode kommen. Aber bis dann, bleibt sauber.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
Untertitelung des ZDF, 2020 So you're going to hear me refer to his girlfriend as Kate throughout this episode. So Kevin and Kate had been together for about two to three years. And they also lived together along with her two kids that she had from a previous relationship in a home in Highland Township, Michigan. And as I just mentioned, Kevin and his girlfriend were very into EDM music.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
And in 2018, that is what brought them to the Electric Forest Music Festival. And it was actually his first time going and he was really excited about it. Kevin's dad had been helping get Kate's car up and running because it was having some issues. And since this festival was about two and a half hours away, they obviously needed a way to get there.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
Now, as for the music festival itself, I'm sure a lot of you out there are probably somewhat familiar with Electric Forest or, you know, other music festivals. I had to... Ich mache ein bisschen Forschung an Musikfestivals. Ich bin noch nie zu einem gewesen. Ich habe einfach zu viel Angst. Ich kann also kaum ein Konzert beherrschen.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
Also kann ich mir nicht vorstellen, dass ich an einem Festival mit tausenden von Leuten bin. Aber es sieht wirklich, wirklich lustig aus. Besonders von dem, was ich von Electric Forest gesehen habe. Es sieht aus wie ein Blast.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
major break in the case and so i thought now would be a good time to take a look at it bring a little bit more awareness to it as a lot of the talk around the case has sort of simmered down although with the most recent update i feel like it's gotten a little bit Das war's für heute. Bis zum nächsten Mal. Because of the major discovery.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
Und so für diejenigen von euch, die wie ich sind und nicht viel über Musikfestivalen oder spezifisch nicht viel über Electric Forest wissen, denke ich, dass es wirklich wichtig ist, dass wir es ein bisschen mehr erklären und euch ein bisschen eine Idee davon geben, wie es ist. Also, Electric Forest stattfindet in Rothbury, Michigan jeden Sommer und es bezieht sich auf ein
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
Es gibt eine Menge Künstler, die ihre Musik über einen langen Wochenende präsentieren. Diese Dinge sind einfach massiv. Ich meine, als Beispiel, gab es im Jahr 2023 eine bestimmte 40.000 bis 50.000 Personen, die anwesend waren. Das ist natürlich der Grund, warum es auf einem großen Platz auf Land gehalten werden muss.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
Und so jedes Jahr ist dieses Festival am Double JJ Resort gehalten, das über 2.000 Äcker breitet. Und um dir eine bessere Idee zu geben, was das bedeutet, reden wir über 1.500 Fußballgebiete. Und bei diesen Festivals, glaube ich, campen die Mehrheit der Leute in Bezug auf das Gebäude. Ich schätze, weil es es viel einfacher macht. Und es ist auch nur eine lustige Erfahrung, dort zu campen.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
Im Grunde gibt es diese designierten Spots, wo man sein Auto holen kann, wo man in seinem Auto schlafen kann, wenn man will. Oder man könnte einen Tent aufbauen, um dort für die Dauer des Festivals zu schlafen. And that's what Kevin, Kate and their two other friends ended up doing. And just like his girlfriend, I won't be sharing the real names of his two other friends.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
So I'm going to be referring to them as Justin and Anna. But let's go ahead and jump into the timeline here. And I actually want to start on the Tuesday before the festival, which was June 26, 2018. And... There isn't that much to report from that day, but there are two things that I felt were important to mention.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
So on that day, Kevin and his dad had spoke about making plans for when he returned. Basically, Gary needed some help with things around the house and asked Kevin if he'd be willing to help. And he said, sure, no problem. Let's do it when I get back. And then the other thing I wanted to mention has to do with his sister. Now, Kevin and Kelly were both raised in a religious home.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
However, Kevin identified as an atheist. And on the 26th, Kelly had sent him an hour-long video about explaining God to an atheist. She told him that she didn't need him to go to church or anything like that, but she wanted him to reconsider believing in God so that one day they could see each other in heaven. And I totally get that.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
I mean, I'm not a religious person myself, as I've said many times, but for the religious people I know in my life, it is something that is very difficult to wrap your mind around if you truly believe in heaven, to, you know, have the thought of your loved one not being there with you and potentially being... somewhere bad is really scary. You know, the two of them were so close.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
She didn't approach this in a way that was like attacking him or anything like that. She just wanted to share that with him. And he was very open to it. When she actually sent him the link, she didn't even expect him to watch it. But the following day, when he got to the festival, actually, Kevin gave her a call and said that he did watch it and he would love to talk about it more when he got back.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
And I know those two interactions with his family members may seem a little bit random, but I promise we will circle back to it later on.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
And that brings us to Wednesday, June 27th. And that day, Kevin, Kate, Justin and Anna got to the festival and they all arrived in two separate cars. Now, this isn't super crucial, but just an FYI that this was the second weekend of Electric Forest. In past years, the festival was so massive that they thought it would be, you know, helpful to break it into two weekends.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
Now, we don't have too much information about the rest of this day, other than they arrived and unpacked all their stuff. The main festivities and performances didn't start until Friday, but oftentimes people will go early to get a good camping spot so that they could be close to the music and all of that. And between Wednesday and Sunday, things seem to be going okay.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
at least as far as his family knew. Kevin was someone who really stayed in touch with his family. He would text his mom and sister pretty much on a daily basis, and that stayed true throughout the festival. And if any of you guys have been to one of these festivals, from what I understand, the service is not that great. It can be very spotty, and in some areas you can have no service at all.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
Sometimes the entire area has no service at all, which is very dangerous when you think about it. But Kevin still managed to send off at least a daily text, just letting them know that he was having fun and all was well. However, on Sunday, July 1st, his text started getting pretty strange.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
At 7.55 that morning, Kevin texted his dad saying something along the lines of, Dad, I love you for your service, I love you and someday I will pay you back everything I owe you. Gary and his father, so Kevin's grandfather, both served in the Marines. And it was something that Kevin always had a ton of respect for. Gary had fought in the Vietnam War.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
And I just want to read you something that Kevin wrote to his dad. And it was actually framed with a picture. And I thought it was really beautiful. And it just shows you how much he admired him. Dad, you are such a good friend and father to me. You are my hero. You were so brave to go and fight in Vietnam. You fought for my freedom and yours. You are the bravest man I know.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
And this family, I mean, they have been through so much since 2018 when Kevin disappeared. And even with this new discovery, there are still so many unanswered questions. And this family has done everything they can to keep Kevin's name out there. And I just hope that this family can finally get some answers after all of this time. And hopefully those answers come soon.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
And I am happy that you are my friend and father. Dad, you are my hero. Now, Kevin admired and respected his dad for his time in the Marines so much so that he even got a Marine Corps tattoo in honor of his father and his grandfather, which... Actually, I learned, is kind of a no-no. And that's because Kevin himself didn't serve in the Marines.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
So his dad, when he saw it, was rightfully just a little like... It's not a big deal, but we need to get this fixed. He didn't want him to remove it, but he felt that he should clarify it a little bit by adding the dates of his father's service or something like that. So anyway, going back to the text, it seemed a little weird to them at the time because, you know, he's out at this festival.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
It's just a strange time to send such a message. Vielen Dank für's Zuschauen. Und Kathy dachte, dass das seltsam war, weil sie ihn gefragt hat, wie sie es gemacht haben, nicht, was sie gemacht haben. Und so hat sie ihn tatsächlich wieder getreut, um zu fragen, ob alles okay war. Und er hat die gleiche Antwort zurückgegeben. Alles, was er gesagt hat, war nichts.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
Wir lernten dann, dass er zwischen 1 und 2 Uhr verabschiedet hat, 200 Dollar von einem ATM. Und letztlich, um 1.55 Uhr, hat Kevin seine Schwester getreut, und hat etwas gesagt wie, Es ist alles gut, Kel. Ich liebe dich am meisten.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
Now, this also has a little bit of a backstory, although I'm sure a lot of you do things like this with your loved ones, but Kevin and Kelly had this whole sort of game that they would play, where one would say, I love you, the other would say, I love you more, and then it would go into this, like, I love you more war, you know, who loved each other more, and Kevin would normally end it by saying, I love you the most.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
So in the moment, that text didn't necessarily feel too out of the ordinary, But I think looking back at these messages now, we can recognize that they do seem a little strange. On that Sunday though, it wasn't enough for them to really think twice about it.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
Now my first thought when reading these texts, and I think a lot of you are probably having these thoughts as well, especially because he's at... Vielen Dank. You sort of want to express and profess your love for them or you get really, really in your feels. Of course, I don't know if that was the case. I don't know if he was on drugs or anything.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
He Vanished at Electric Forest & His Remains Were Just Found: The Suspicious Death of Kevin Graves
He could have been completely sober for all we know. But it's something that's just going to come up in this case. Obviously, it can't be ignored that festivals like Electric Forest are no stranger to drugs. And of course, by no means am I saying that everyone who goes to these festivals is doing drugs. In fact, we know that a lot of people don't.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
Aber trotz alledem hat sie ihn nie zu den Polizisten berichtet. Aber das heißt nicht, dass die Polizisten nicht angerufen wurden. Sie wurden eigentlich oft zu ihrem Haus angerufen. Und wenn sie dort kommen würden, würde Nicki nichts anrufen. Und das ging durch die meiste der frühen Pandemie. Now, when it comes to the police, I'm sure we all have our frustrations that they didn't step in.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
I mean, especially with how many times they had gone over there, you would hope that they would have done something about this pattern. But if Nikki wasn't ready to report him and she didn't have any visible signs of trauma, there honestly wasn't much that they could do. But they did eventually intervene when it came to the kids.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
In late 2021, their four kids were removed from the home and guardianship was given to Tyler's family through the tribal court. And I feel like I should just mention this now because it does apply now, but also applies later as we get further into the case. But Tyler's family... ist eine sehr hochrangige Familie in der Reservation. In Wahrheit ist sein Sohn tatsächlich auf dem Tribal Council.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
Und wie Sie sich vorstellen können, der Tribal Council macht natürlich viele Entscheidungen, was passiert und was nicht passiert. Und so haben sie beschlossen, dass seine Familie...
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
got the kids however kay and chloe fought for the kids to be in their custody and through that fight they were actually granted shared guardianship and even though official reports hadn't been made there definitely was recognition that this was not a safe environment for the children and you would think that something like this would be a giant wake-up call for tyler
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
Und es würde den Verbrechen stoppen, aber das war definitiv nicht der Fall. Es ging für die nächsten zwei Jahre weiter. Und während dieser Zeit würde Nicki oft Tage an ihrer Moms oder einer ihrer Schwestern Hause verbringen. Und wenn sie dort gehen würde, würden sie versuchen, sie zu überzeugen, dass sie ihn verlassen musste.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
Aber egal, wie viele Schritte sie in die richtige Richtung nehmen würde, ging sie immer zurück zu ihm. Und wie das normalerweise geht, ist, dass Nicki zu einem ihrer Häuser ein paar Tage gehen würde und Tyler die Schwestern schreibt, dass sie Dinge wie Tell Nikki I love her and I'll change.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
And he would even go as far as calling them and trying to explain the situation very calmly and explain why he was in the right. And his sisters even said that during those moments he sounded very...
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
believable and level-headed but of course now in hindsight it's very clear to them that he was manipulating them and gaslighting nikki to make it seem like he was in the right that she was overreacting and he really was a good guy but tyler was not the good guy and over and over again despite saying that he would change he continued with his behavior every single time she went back
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
fighting for answers and justice for Nikki and doing their best to spread the word about her case. My audience is incredible. You guys always really come out and huge support, especially when we have family members actually coming on the show. I want to see... Awesome support for them in the comments and I hope you guys will also go the extra mile.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
And there were even points in time where his mother, Jeanette, would get involved. And there was actually one incident where she got physical with Nikki when Nikki tried to go and see the kids and it turned into this whole big thing. And in the end, Jeanette ended up pressing charges against Nikki for what happened.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
Yet Nikki didn't do the same in return, which was very frustrating to her family because now... Sie hatte ein Rekord, aber Jeanette und Tyler nicht. Und letztendlich, egal wie viele Male ihre Schwestern sie gebeten haben, Hilfe zu bekommen, würde Nicki Verzeihungen machen, Dinge zu sagen, wie er es nicht bedeutet.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
Was sehr üblich ist in verletzten, gewaltigen Verhältnissen, weil der Niveau der Manipulation, Gaslighting und Kontrolle, die Verbrecher über die Verletzte haben können. However, in November of 2023, Tyler attacked her so brutally that all of her years of silence finally came to an end. It was November 29th and Nikki had got home between 8.15 and 8.30pm and realized that she was home alone.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
So she goes into her room and just starts to brush her hair. Und Tyler kommt 15 Minuten später zurück. Und nach dem Polizeireport hat Nicky gesagt, dass, als er nach Hause kam, Tyler agitierte und er machte keinen Sinn. Zuerst schlug er die Rückseite ab, kam dann in den Raum mit einem glasigen Blick in seine Augen und schlug sofort auf sie.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
Von dort an hielt er sie auf dem Boden und drang sie, während er an sie schrie. What's going on? What are you doing? And as he is doing all of this, Nikki is trying her best to get him to stop, trying to calm him down, but nothing she could do could get him to stop. And so he continued to verbally and physically attack her for hours.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
Among the many things that he did to her that night, Tyler repeatedly hit her in the face with an open hand, pulled her by her hair and even poured large amounts of cold water on her from the jug that had been beside her. This brutal assault went on for three days. Hier ist ein Quote vom Bericht. pulled on her hair and forcefully pulled her head back, saying that he was going to kill her.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
It was also reported that at some point, Nicky felt something around her neck, as if he was going to strangle her, but for whatever reason, he didn't. Now this... Absolutely vicious attack only ended at 11.30. Think about that. I mean, she gets home between 8.15 and 8.30. He comes home 15 minutes later. That's how long this went on.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
And at this time, for whatever reason, Tyler went into the kitchen and Nikki mustered up the strength to escape. She put on her bathrobe, which actually had her car keys in the pocket. She got in her car and left. But it didn't even end there because Tyler ends up running after her and then jumped on the hood of her car as she drove away.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
And despite him screaming at her to stop, thankfully she didn't. Nikki drove straight to her mom's house where she was finally safe and she stayed there for a few days and after that she went over to Chloe's house. And it was after seeing her sister with two black swollen eyes and injuries to her head that Chloe said enough's enough.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
We have some steps that you can take to help them even further that we will get into in a little bit. But yes, they're just such awesome people. I really look up to them and everything they have done is... Just so commendable. I mean, after everything they have been through, all of the trauma that they have experienced, they have remained so strong, so focused on the end goal here.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
She put her foot down and told her, you're going to the hospital. And so on Friday, December 1st, Nikki was checked into Mercy Hospital, where she was treated for her injuries and where she was finally able to report Tyler. And when the officer responded to the hospital, he said that he immediately noticed that she had injuries to both her eyes, her forehead and the rest of her face.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
And when he asked her who was responsible for the injuries, Nikki said it was her husband, Tyler McCain. And we also learned some other things from this report, such as Nikki telling the officer that Tyler had done this to her before, but never to this degree. Not only that, but she explicitly said that she believed it was Tyler's intent to kill her.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
Now as for why he did this other than just being an abusive piece of shit, it's hard to say. Nikki told the officer that she believed he used meth periodically, but as we all know, this was not his first time physically attacking her. She did say though that she wasn't planning on going back there after this and that she was going to stay with her sister. Which ended up being true.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
And the officer also recommended that she go to One Safe Place, which is a justice center for all types of victims where she could get assistance with obtaining a restraining order. Now, One Safe Place is an incredible resource center and there are a handful of locations all across the country and they offer a variety of free services to victims.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
This includes trauma treatment, acquiring restraining orders, evidentiary exams, safe housing assistance, child advocacy services, legal assistance and more. Und ich werde sie definitiv in die Beschreibungen und Beschreibungen dieser Episode verlinken, abhängig davon, wo du diese Episode benutzt hast, weil die Arbeit, die sie tun, unglaublich wichtig ist.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
And I don't know, it's just beyond words impressive. Really, their whole family has just spent years supporting Nikki, even before she went missing. And I know that they're going to continue to do so until they get justice. And as always, this is an ongoing investigation and everyone that I speak about in this case is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
And this ended up being a really big help for her. And her sister said that this gave her sort of a sense of empowerment and strength to finally leave Tyler, at least at first. Sie war sogar aufgeregt, wieder einen Job zu suchen, weil Tyler in der Vergangenheit sie vom Arbeiten verhindert hatte. Also war die Attacke letztendlich ein riesiger, riesiger Wachstum.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
Und dankbar, weil sie ihn dieses Mal berichtet hat, wurde die Aktion endlich genommen. After the officer left Mercy Hospital, he and other deputies went to Tyler and Nikki's house where he was arrested and he was taken into custody, which is when he of course started telling conflicting stories about what happened. At first, Tyler said that he was aware of her injuries, but he never saw them.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
He said that he last saw her on the 29th around 8pm and said that her injuries were from a physical altercation that she had with the woman that she was having an affair with. However, he didn't actually see the fight take place, which makes no sense. I mean, how do you know that she got in a fight with this so-called woman that she was having an affair with if you didn't actually see it?
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
It also didn't make sense because Nikki straight up told the officer that Tyler was the one who was responsible. Und Tyler, natürlich, hat all das negiert. Und dann hat er angefangen, darüber zu sprechen, wie er und Nikki dieses große Verhältnis hatten. Und es gab nie einen Art von Gewalt zwischen ihnen. Was natürlich nur Scheiße ist. Also am 2.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
Dezember wurde er letztendlich mit körperlicher Verletzung zu einer Schwester verurteilt. Falsche Entschlossenheit, kriminelle Threaten und Gewalt, die wahrscheinlich große körperliche Verletzungen verursachen. Nun, nach all dem, continued Nikki zu leben zwischen ihrer Sisters Haus und auch ihrer Moms Haus. And it seemed like she was finally really ready to leave him for good.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
Tyler, on the other hand, he wasn't done with her. And at one point, he convinced Nikki to drive him to a court hearing because he had a suspended license and she agreed. But as they start driving, he directed her to his lawyer's office instead. And when they got there, he and his lawyer tried to convince her to drop the charges.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
So with all that being said, let's go ahead and jump into the case. I did find out after recording last week that I actually had bronchitis, so I'm I think pretty much at the tail end of that. But I don't know, I may sound a little nasally and coffee and whatever, just sick today. So just bear with me. But let's get into this.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
And when she said no, he drove off in her car, just abandoning her at his lawyer's office, even though he had a suspended license. And this wasn't the last time that he would try to pressure her to drop the charges. And it was the same old, same old as all of the times before he kept telling her he would change and that they could possibly get their kids back if she moved back home.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
And as hard as it is to say this, it worked. And in March, April-ish of 2023, Nikki moved back in with him. Und natürlich war das einfach schmerzhaft für ihre Familie, aber sie konnten sie letztendlich nicht stoppen. Sie versuchte, ihnen zu versichern, dass Tyler sie nicht mehr schmerzen würde, aber, naja, sie ist verpasst.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
Ich meine, das ist der Grund, warum wir hier über ihre Geschichte sprechen. Und sie war verpasst, direkt vor seinem Trial für die Domestikwahl, was mich zu ihrer Verlustbringung bringt. After Nikki moved back in with Tyler, she still held her ground when it came to the charges. She refused to drop them.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
So on May 7th, 2024, he had to appear in court for a preliminary hearing where he pleaded, of course, not guilty. And it was actually on this day that Nikki ended up texting her sister Chloe and told her that she was officially done, that she was tired of his bullshit and she wanted a divorce.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
In fact, she was already looking for furniture for a new apartment and she said that she was determined to get custody of her kids back. And at this time, it really felt like a turning point for her and everyone was so eager about it. But just 10 days later, on May 17th, Nikki vanished. Und so werde ich mein Bestes tun, um die Zeitung der Events zu erklären.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
Aber ich wollte das mit dem Hinweis machen, dass das von Chloe und Kay zusammengefasst wurde, basierend auf den Geschichten, die sie gehört haben und Textmessagen. Also behält das in Ordnung. Es gibt hier viele grüne Bereiche und Dinge, die wir nur für bestimmte nicht wissen. Besonders an diesem Punkt in dem Fall, weil das ziemlich neulich passiert ist.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
Und es gibt viele Informationen, die nicht von der Behörde veröffentlicht worden sind. Und so, hier ist, was sie gesammelt haben und was sie glauben, wahrscheinlich passiert ist. Am Abend des 17. Mai, war Nikki auf Telefon mit Chloe und sie hat ihr gesagt, dass sie am Mercy Hospital war, weil Brian, der Tyler's Bruder ist, tatsächlich da war, in einer ziemlich kritischen Situation.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
Von dem, was ich verstehe, hatte er eine Blutverschmutzung in seinen Lungen und es war ziemlich schwer, also war er in der ICU. Und Nikki, Tyler und Jeanette, Jeanette ist Tylers Mutter als Erinnerung, fuhren alle zum Krankenhaus zusammen in einem sehr chaotischen Rutsch und sie fuhren alle zusammen in Jeanettes Auto.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
Now, Nicky and Jeanette ended up staying at the hospital until about midnight, during which time Nicky was texting Chloe, just letting her know what was going on with Brian and sort of the status of it all. And around midnight, it's believed that Jeanette and Nicky left the hospital. And because of how distraught Jeanette was,
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
I am eager to tell you more about Nikki and the awesome person that she was. Und das beginnt mit dem Erlernen der Geschichte hinter ihrem Namen. Nikki Chang Saley wurde am 9. November 1984 in Thailand geboren, wo ihre Eltern in einem Flüchtlingscamp nach dem Vietnamkrieg lebten.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
Nicky war derjenige, der ihr Auto, Janettes Auto, direkt zurück nach Janettes Haus führte. Aber Nicky musste auch abends nach Hause, also glauben ihre Schwestern, dass nach der Entfernung von Janette in ihr Haus, Nicky Janettes Auto zurück nahm. zu ihrer eigenen Stelle, Nikkis Stelle. Nun, für den Kontext.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
Jeannette lebte direkt neben dem Wind River Casino, das ist ungefähr 10, 15 Minuten entfernt von dem, wo Tyler und Nikki lebten. Und hier ist es, wo die Dinge anstrengend beginnen. Um 12.35 Uhr, was jetzt am 18. Mai sein würde, hat Nikki oder Nikkis Telefon, behalten Sie das in Erinnerung, Chloe getextet, dass sie von ihrem Haus nach Jeannettes Haus fuhr, um Jeannettes Auto auszudrücken.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
which was weird because she was supposedly just at Jeanette's house dropping her off. So, based on this message, it sounded like Nikki went back to Jeanette's house a second time. That's if you believe she was the one texting. And sure, it was Jeanette's car that she probably wanted at her house, but it didn't and doesn't make sense why Nikki would have gone back again so late that night.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
Better yet, if she was just at Jeanette's house dropping her off, Why didn't she leave the car there in the first place and get picked up by someone else? And all of this will come full circle here in a little. Just trust me. Anyways, that's what this text said. And at first it didn't raise any alarm bells. And Chloe didn't even respond to it right away.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
She responded the next morning when she woke up. Because it, of course, came in after midnight. And when she texts her the next morning, she just sends her something pretty general. Just asking how Brian was doing. And this time Nikki didn't respond. Although at the time that wasn't super weird and Chloe ended up getting distracted with other things and didn't really think much of it at first.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
And then that morning, Nikki's daughter, who was in Chloe's care, had a soccer game and they were running around because they realized they couldn't find her jersey. And so they're looking for the jersey and at some point Chloe realized that maybe it was at Jeanette's house because the kids went over there from time to time and she figured it was possible that it was there. Vielen Dank.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
Ihre Angehörigen waren ursprünglich Landwirte aus China und über die Zeit migrierten sie zu Plätzen wie Laos, Vietnam und Thailand. und Nicky's family line was among those who ended up in Thailand to escape the war.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
Untertitelung des ZDF, 2020 Untertitelung. BR 2018 Untertitelung des ZDF, 2020 Untertitelung. BR 2018 Untertitelung. BR 2018 Untertitelung des ZDF, 2020 Untertitelung des ZDF, 2020 Untertitelung des ZDF, 2020 Untertitelung des ZDF, 2020 Untertitelung. BR 2018
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
And I bring this up because Chang is Nicky's Mian name, and that's what her family called her when they were together, but others started calling her Nicky when they immigrated to the United States. Nicky He was the second of four siblings born in Thailand, including her older sister May and her younger sister Kay. And eventually her parents left Thailand and found their way to Seattle.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
However, they ended up moving again, and this time they moved to Northern California in Reading, where they had three more kids, including her other younger sister Chloe. And I've got to say, I just loved learning about Nikki. She seemed like such an awesome person to be around. She was fun, she was free-spirited and very funny.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
Untertitelung. BR 2018 Untertitelung. BR 2018 Untertitelung. BR 2018 Das war's für heute. ,,,
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
Hallo, alle. Und willkommen zurück zu True Crime with Kendall Rae. Vielen Dank, dass ihr heute mit mir dabei seid. Und wenn ihr neu seid, dann willkommen. Ich bin so froh, dass ihr hier seid. Also, Leute, heute werden wir uns in einem Fall befinden, der so, so wichtig ist, um zu sprechen, weil es uns geschlossen ist. and the victim is actively missing.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
And of course, I never got the pleasure of meeting her myself, but just by talking to Chloe and Kay, they really did such a great job of... Ja, genau. You know, she always wanted to do the fun things for her kids. Like she got into holidays big time, you know, even things like Valentine's Day.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
Which, by the way, Nickys truck was actually a gift from Tyler two weeks prior, which was weird because she already had a perfectly fine working car. So her sisters aren't really sure why he got her this car in the first place, but he did. And now it was missing along with Nicky.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
Und ehrlich gesagt, Leute, ein großer Teil dieses Fortschritts, den ich euch nur weiterhin erinnern muss, weil ich weiß, dass dieses Fortschritt verwirklich ist. Und das ist nur, weil es so viel, was wir nicht wissen. Und das ist etwas, das ihr nur behalten müsst, als wir weiter durch dieses Fortschritt gehen.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
Nikki's sisters have had to go out of their way to try and figure things out, but a lot of it is just still up in the air. Especially when it comes to the timeline of the day that she disappeared. I mean, for all we know, she didn't even send that text message at 12.35 a.m. We have no idea if that was actually sent by her.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
And if you've watched any other videos or podcasts, any coverage on this case before, especially... Things that included Kay and Chloe, you may have heard them say that they believed that the text message was sent by Nikki. But as time has gone on, they've started to question that.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
Overall, they've had to question a lot of what they've heard and try their best to put together an educated guess as to what it all means. And the reality is that the answers to a lot of these questions... Ja. Und ich weiß, dass viele von euch und einfach viele von den Leuten, die diesen Fall im Allgemeinen gefolgt haben, wirklich frustriert fühlen mit dieser Unentschiedenheit.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
Aber, du weißt, du musst hoffen, dass es für einen guten Grund ist, dass Dinge hinter den Szenen gemacht werden und sie müssen einige Dinge nahe an die Wäsche halten. Und generell gesagt, hat Chloe und Kay gesagt, dass sie eine ziemlich gute Erfahrung mit denen hatten, die in Nicki's Verlust schauen.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
She would just go all out with the colors or any type of, you know, school event or, you know, how they'll have like themed days at school. She would just go all out for that and always was looking for ways to make other people around her and her children have a good time. And I think that's such an amazing quality in a human.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
However, there is definitely some concern that law enforcement isn't being as aggressive in their approach in this case compared to other cases in the area. And specifically, one case is probably going to ring a bell and stand out to you.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
I mentioned that they originally reported her missing to the Reading Police Department, but pretty quickly it was transferred to the Shasta County Sheriff's Office. And I'm sure that sounds familiar to a lot of you, because that brings up a case that I have covered a couple of times. That is where Sherry Papini faked her disappearance. And as you can probably tell, there are very big differences.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
in the efforts between these two cases. I mean, I'm sure most of you are familiar with that case and I'm sure you remember how much coverage and attention and resources were put into looking for Sherry, especially in the early days and throughout the whole time that it was believed she was missing. God, that case pisses me off so much. But yeah, pretty big difference here.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
But regardless, I don't want to get distracted here. That is who is handling Nikki's case. And on May 30th, they announced a big update. That Thursday, they shared that Nikki's 2002 Chevy Avalanche was found in Tahoma County, about 45 minutes east of where she lived. And it was found on the side of the road off Highway 36, nowhere near where Tyler said it had been abandoned.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
Nun, es wurde berichtet, dass das Auto Schadstoffe hatte, aber ich möchte klarstellen, dass es Schadstoffe hatte, bevor es gekauft wurde. Und ich möchte auch klarstellen, dass der 30. nicht tatsächlich war, als ihr Auto gefunden wurde. Es wurde eigentlich am 25. gefunden, aber für irgendeinen Grund warten sie fünf Tage, um diese Information öffentlich zu machen.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
Which, as you can imagine, was very frustrating for people who were spending their time trying to search for the car. Because that was five days where it would have been nice to know that it had already been located. Here's an interesting thing about where the car was located, though. It was found on a road that leads to property that Tyler's family owns.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
And also, this is not a heavily trafficked area at all. In fact, it's... Ja, genau. Unfortunately though, nothing turned up. And in a not so shocking twist, Tyler refused to help with the searches at all, which as the husband of a missing person is beyond disappointing and speaks volumes.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
I think we can all confidently say that if one of our loved ones or a friend or maybe even just a member of the community was missing, you'd probably be out there, but especially Tyler. If it was someone in your family, your spouse, your immediate family, you would be out in those searches.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
Especially if other strangers and all these other people who have spent their spare time trying to find your loved one and you're not there. I mean, it just says everything, right?
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
Now, growing up, Nikki and her siblings had the fortune of living close to a bunch of their other relatives, which meant tons of time with their cousins and building a really strong sense of family. And there were actually quite a bit of boy cousins, so the girls kind of stuck together and formed their own little girls group in a way. And that only made them that much closer.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
But anyway, around this time, Nicki's sisters also had requested the video footage from the Wind River Casino, because a casino is obviously going to have a ton of cameras, both inside and out, but so far, they haven't been granted access. Not that they believe she went there, but Jeanette did live close by, so getting any kind of footage from that area is better than nothing.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
Now, it's very possible, in fact, we're pretty sure that investigators have been given it, but if anything was found in this footage, that we just don't know. We also have no idea to what extent Tyler and his mom Jeanette have been questioned. And we do know they have been spoken to, but what they said is a mystery at this point.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
On June 25th, law enforcement was seen searching Jeanette's property and neighbors told the sisters that boxes were carried out, which is interesting. But if anything was found in relation to Nikki's disappearance, that is information that also has not been released. And of course, you know, I understand that that could be for very good reason.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
We did find out that Tyler's cousin was arrested because I guess they searched his house too and they found weapons that he legally wasn't allowed to have. But to my knowledge, that was unrelated to Nikki's case. Nun, es gibt noch einen großen Thema, den wir hier hinzufügen müssen.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
Und das ist, dass Teil der Schwierigkeit in der Suche nach Nicki hat mit dem Fakt, dass sie entlang oder nahe von Tribal Land verpasst wurde. Es ist glaubt, dass sie an Jeanettes Haus war, das ist genau neben dem Wind River Casino, das auf Tribal Land ist. Die Redding Rancheria ist eine föderal erkennbare Native American Tribe und damit kommen verschiedene Regeln in Bezug auf, wer wo suchen kann.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
Zum Beispiel hat das Tribalgericht zwei Community-Search-Efforts im ersten Juni ermöglicht, die sowohl auf dem Fuß als auch auf dem Flugzeug stattfanden. Jedoch ist es immer noch ein großer Bereich, den Menschen nicht erlaubt zu suchen, weil es privates tribales Land ist. And remember, Tyler's family are members of the reservation and his aunt is a member of the tribal council.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
And due to what they call a lack of tribal law enforcement, they are not conducting a criminal investigation into this case whatsoever. That being said, they say that they have been very supportive of the Shasta County Sheriff's Office. And on June 5th, a billboard went up along I-5 near the Anderson outlets and the Reading Rancheria actually paid for it.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
They also put forward a $10,000 reward for information and have shared that they've provided law enforcement with information and video footage as it's been requested. And I'm just going to be really honest with you guys here, especially after my conversation with Chloe and Kay. Obviously, these two things that they have done are very helpful for Nikki's case and her sister's Ja. Ja. Ja.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
making contact with Chloe and Kay directly. I mean, they didn't even know that they were going to be posting that reward. They ended up finding out through the NorCal Alliance for the missing. So have they helped? Sure. But does it feel very sincere to their family? No, it doesn't. And I know that this is a very complicated and controversial issue.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
And having that experience from such a young age and having such a big, close-knit family is... was sie so zu ihrer Familie verliebt hat und sie dazu geführt hat, eine große, nahe Familie ihrer eigenen zu haben. Und eines meiner persönlichen Lieblingsmöglichkeiten, die ich über Nicki lernte, ist, dass sie jemand war, der immer darauf wollte, dass jeder inklusive war.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
And I'm just trying to, you know, explain some of the feelings that Chloe and Kate and their whole family are feeling. And I know that it is deeper than what I can understand. But I do agree that when someone has gone missing and could have been murdered, that... It would be great to have as much help and cooperation as possible, right?
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
I do get that the reservation is very protective of their own and Tyler's family is very high up in the reservation. And ultimately, despite being married to a member and having kids who are members, Nikki is not one of them. Maybe if she was, they would be bringing out all the stops, but she isn't and they haven't.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
Sie wollte nie jemanden, der sie um sie herum hatte, zu fühlen, als wären sie draußen. Sie war die Art von Person, die aus ihrem Weg gehen würde, in jeder Situation, um die Leute zu fühlen, als ob sie Teil des Gruppes wären. Und es machte keinen Sinn, ob das jemand war, den sie kannte oder ein kompletter Auferstandener.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
tribal member who was desperate to find his wife but let's take a step back here and think about why why would nikki go missing and who would stand to benefit well considering that nikki was pressing charges against tyler many believe that that could be the motive i mean just speaking earnestly he stood the most to gain from nikki disappearing not to mention that his trial was quickly approaching
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
Am 3. Juni stand er für eine präliminäre Aussprache, die Nicki geplant hatte. Natürlich war sie nicht da. Und die nächste Aussprache war am 28. Juni geplant. Und diese Aussprache war auch die Szene eines großen Justice-für-Nicki-Rallyes. Über 100 Leute kamen mit Posten und Bannern.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
Und als Tyler in die Geräte kam, konnten sie hören, dass es keine Gerechtigkeit, keine Frieden gab, während Tyler auf den Straßen war. Und als er in die Geräte ging, riefen einige Leute nach Tyler, schreiend, wo ist sie?
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
And with this hearing came some devastating news, some extremely frustrating news. Due to lack of evidence, a motion was filed to drop all charges against him. And think about it, Nikki's testimony was crucial, because she was the one accusing Tyler of violently attacking her, and per his 6th Amendment right, He has the right to face his accuser.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
So the judge basically said, you guys have until July 5th to find Nikki or more evidence from this attack. Otherwise, this will be dropped. And that's exactly what happened. But before that even happened, two insane things happened first. And when I say things, I mean fires. On July 2nd, Tyler's cousins property caught fire and burned a total of 19 acres.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
Und ich denke, sie hat viel davon durch Humor gemacht, auch wenn es sich um ihre eigenen Zweifel handelte. Und einige der Geschichten, die ihre Schwestern mir am letzten Tag erzählt haben, haben mich laut gelacht. Und ich hatte Bronchitis, also war ich fast schockiert. Aber sie klingt einfach absolut furchtbar. Sie hatte das Gefühl von Humor, dass sie so, so furchtbar war.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
Und was hier interessant ist, ist, dass das Gebäude, das gebrannt wurde, so so passiert, dass es ein Gebäude war, das sehr bald gesucht werden sollte. Ein paar Tage vor dem Feuer, posteten einige Leute auf der Facebook-Page, dass sie da schauen wollten. Und dann ging es in Flammen, schädigend die Suche zu beenden.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
Which at first was a bit like, okay, that's extremely frustrating and weird, but it is California in July, so maybe it was just bad luck. But then, the very next day, another fire started. And this time it was on Tyler and Nikki's property. And this was a big fire. In total, 98 acres and several cars were burned as a result of the July 3rd fire. And guess who laughed?
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
literally admitted to starting it. Big shocker here, it was Tyler. But he claims he didn't set it on purpose. Apparently he had parked his car over some dry grass and a faulty catalytic converter sparked the flames. Cal Fire also reported that the catalytic converter is what caused the fire, but I don't know, it just seems incredibly strange that two fires happened two days in a row.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
Now, I want to be really clear here, I'm not saying that they did anything, Denn wir wissen es nicht. Ich meine, es gibt keine Beweise dafür. Ich sage nur, und ich denke, wir können alle einig sein, dass es wirklich, wirklich seltsam aussieht. Besonders, weil eine Teil der Gebäude, die gebrannt wurde, eine Gebäude war, die Chloe, ihr Verwandter und Kaye vor Tagen nachgefragt haben.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
Sie sind nach Hause gegangen, um einige von Nickies traditionellem Meal und Kleidung zu bekommen, und sie endeten, sich herumzuspucken. Tyler hatte dieses Gebiet, wo er Junkfahrzeuge verpackt hat, und das ist das Gebiet, in dem sie unterwegs waren. Er war ein Mechaniker, also arbeitete er oft mit Fahrzeugen auf dem Gebiet. Und so haben sie in diesem Gebiet geschaut.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
Während dieser speziellen Stelle war, wo die Feuerzeuge initial gespürt wurden, was sie sagen, ist ein Stück Informationen, das sie nicht verloren haben. In Wahrheit, und das ist ein großer Teil, ich meine, ich stimme sicherlich mit ihnen auf diese Seite, dass das... Very, very weird.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
But Kay and Chloe believe that Tyler would have had the knowledge as a mechanic to be able to set a fire like that and make it look like an accident. Not to mention the area where he parked his car is not where he'd normally park a car that he was actively working on. He would normally pull it near the garage, not off to the side with the cars that were junked.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
And that was not the only strange thing they learned that day, because I guess while they were there, Chloe's fiancé ended up speaking to Tyler, and he told him that he planned to pay Nikki off to drop the charges. According to her fiancé, he said he didn't know why people thought he killed her because he was going to pay her off.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
Which is a really bizarre thing to just admit, if you ask me, especially to the victim's family. But again, going back to the fire and the idea that it was purposely set. Ich habe nichts, niemand hat any proof that he did this. There is literally nothing. I think we can all agree it's pretty strange, pretty crazy timing.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
But in the end he was only given a citation for the fire because they couldn't prove that he said it on purpose. Oh, and get this, there was another fire on July 9th at Hooker Creek. Now, this was a lot smaller, but it was an area they talked about wanting to search in the Facebook group.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
And I get that fires happen, and this is summer in California, but I do think it's pretty wild to have these three fires. Aber going back to the charges that Tyler was facing, I mentioned that the judge said that they were going to be dropped.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
So on July 5th, the DA's office ultimately announced that they were dismissing the domestic violence charges against Tyler because they were unable to produce additional evidence. That being said, with this decision, they do reserve the right to refile these charges within a certain amount of time.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
Und ich liebe es, wenn Leute so sind. Und ein weiterer großer Teil von Nikes Persönlichkeit ist, dass sie einfach das größte Herz hatte. Didn't matter who you were, she would look for the good in anyone. Her sister said that she was even into true crime. And whenever she would watch a true crime show or documentary or podcast or whatever, she would find sympathy for the killer in some way.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
When all of this happened, they had about two and a half years left on the statute of limitations, so now they're looking at about two. Now at the courthouse, some 200 people showed up in another massive rally, and despite the heaviness of it all, there were moments of empowerment.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
People who didn't even know Nikki came from all over the place to show their support, either because they were victims of domestic violence themselves, or they had also been wronged by the tribe. And there was a big turnout in the Mian community as well, which only added to the support this family needed to feel. However, this... Vielen Dank für's Zuschauen.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
If they did move forward with the case, Tyler could have been found not guilty. And because of double jeopardy laws, he would never have to face the consequences of his actions, even if he straight up admitted to attacking her. So, I do understand how this was strategic, but at the end of the day, it doesn't take away from how...
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
Und ich denke, eine große Grundlage, warum diese Verabschiedung besonders beschädigend war, ist, dass das die zweite Zeit in zwei Wochen war, dass etwas wie das passiert ist. Ich meine, hör einfach zu. There was another man in Reading who was arrested and charged with attempted murder after he nearly beat his wife to death in front of their son.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
Charges were filed in May of 2023, but in March of 2024, the charges were dismissed because, get this, there wasn't a judge or a courtroom available to hear his case. And the DA's office also had the right to refile the charges, which they did, but then it happened again. No judge or courtroom was available. And now I guess they're just shit out of luck.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
They can't file them again and now this maniac just gets to walk free. And this is just another example of how truly fucked up our justice system is in so many ways. Like... I'm sure there are some of you out there who didn't even know something like that could happen.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
So, of course, when this community heard that Tyler's charges were also being dismissed, understandably, there was a ton of outrage. People started calling for District Attorney Stephanie Bridget to basically be removed because they don't think that she has the interest of victims in mind. Yet she seems to pride herself on being victim-focused. But neither of these victims have justice.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
And God, this next detail pissed me off when I first heard this. But Tyler literally flipped Nikki's sisters off as he left the courtroom. And if that doesn't tell you how he feels about all of this, I don't know what does.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
And again, this is just another example of why I said at the beginning of this episode that I'm just so impressed with how Chloe and Kay have been able to stay so... I don't know what the words are. Calm and focused. Not get distracted by any of Tyler's bullshit. They are focused on the goal, which is getting justice for their sister, getting those answers. And...
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
I just, oh, I would lose it if I were in their position. But on another note, a better note, at the end of July, Tyler did end up getting arrested during a traffic stop. He had been driving on a suspended license in a vehicle without a license plate. And when they searched his car, they found ammunition, which violated a protective order.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
Which I know can sound kind of crazy, but I've even had times like that. And I'm sure some of you have too, where, you know... People have had a horrific background, which leads them to do these horrible things. And even though they deserve to be punished, she was that type of person that could try and see the good in even some of the worst people.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
But obviously these charges are nothing compared to what many believe, including myself, that he should be charged with. And he bailed out the following day and on October 7th he was present for a hearing related to that arrest. And about two dozen people gathered outside the courtroom, once again holding their Justice for Nikki posters. But besides this, you guys, things have really slowed down.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
The spokesman for the sheriff's office has continued to say that the investigation into Nikki's disappearance is active, but at the same time, They are unable to share any details regarding their case to protect the integrity of the investigation.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
Which is frustrating because it feels like the case of Sherry Papini had the immediate attention and outward facing focus of investigators and this case is just not being handled the same. And obviously we'd like to hope that it's for the best and that there's good reason for all of this, but it's just undeniably frustrating.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
As most of you know, Sherry's case got national media attention and countless man hours spent searching for her tons of resources. And it's really shocking, yet not shocking at the same time, to see the difference. We all know, awareness is key in a missing persons investigation. And the fact that someone who faked being missing got more attention than Nikki, it's just not fair.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
It's absolutely infuriating. And I mean, if I feel pissed about it, and I'm sure most of you do, just imagine how her family feels. But investigators say they are working on the case. And I guess we just have to believe and hope that they really are. Let's all just hope that whatever evidence that they have and are withholding,
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
will be well worth the wait the day that Nikki finally gets the justice that she deserves. But it's so frustrating and shocking that Tyler has not even been named a suspect or even a person of interest in her disappearance.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
Even though he's done nothing to help look for her, which is possibly the biggest red flag of all, he's shown no interest in her disappearance and there's word, keep in mind, just word, that a new woman has been seen hanging around the house.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
Es gibt so viel, was wir nicht wissen, dass ich wünsche, dass ich euch die Antworten geben kann, aber ich wünsche mir wirklich, dass ihre Familie die Antworten hat.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
Aber in diesem Abstand, seit die Dinge geschliffen sind, haben Chloe und Kay die Möglichkeit, sich zurückzuholen und Dinge zu überlegen, Dinge zu wiederholen, und sie haben die Möglichkeit, ihre eigene Theorie darüber herauszufinden, was passiert ist.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
Her sister said that she would look at the killer in these cases and say that she could see sadness in their eyes. She always found a way to forgive people and had this positivity about her that was incredibly endearing. And unfortunately, at times, this could be to a fault. Und Sie werden das mehr verstehen, als ich heute's Case erkläre.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
Was diese gesamte Familie durchgegangen ist, ist einfach überraschend. Vor allem, wenn man sich über ihre Kinder denkt. Sie wurde als Mutter so lieb. Sie liebte es, Mutter zu sein. Und ihre Kinder liebten sie. Und ich bin sicher, dass das einfach... So hard for them to wrap their mind around and understand. And I mean, heartbreaking doesn't even feel like it cuts it.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
That being said, I know that the four of them are in the best care possible with Kay and Chloe. And again, I'm just so impressed with them. Ich meine, was für tolle Leute, die aufgehört haben und ihr Bestes getan haben, um diese Kinder zu kümmern.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
Und ich glaube wirklich, besonders nach dem Gespräch mit ihnen, dass sie einen exzellenten Job gemacht haben, um sicherzustellen, dass sie so gut wie möglich kümmern können und den Unterstützung, den sie brauchen, durch einen unglaublich schwierigen Zeitraum. Nothing can prepare a family for something like this and...
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
Today I'm going to be telling you about the unsolved disappearance of 39-year-old mother Nikki Chang Saley McCain. And I was very fortunate to connect with two of her sisters who have agreed to come on the show today and tell the story a bit from their own words, which is always super valuable. And God, I was on the phone with them for about two hours the other day and I am just blown away by
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
It's cases like this that partly made me want to start our foundation, Higher Hope. And so I'm currently working with Kay and Chloe to get them a Hope Grant. The financial toll that a situation like this puts on a family is just so... Es ist überraschend und unerwartet. Und so wirklich in diesen Zeiten hilft alles.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
Also haben wir viel Zeit darüber gesprochen am letzten Tag und sie haben entschieden, dass sie letztendlich die Finanzen auf ein Bildbord legen wollen. Und ich stimme komplett mit ihnen, dass das ein exzellentes Verwendung der Finanzen ist. Und bei der Zeit, dass dieses Episode aufhört, sollten wir gut auf unsere Weise sein, das gekauft zu werden, wenn nicht schon es möglicherweise gemacht haben.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
Wir werden sehen. Es kann ein bisschen kompliziert werden, aber das wird passieren. And if you guys want to help them as well, they've also just set up a GoFundMe to increase the reward for information. The reward right now is sitting at $30,000. It was increased in July with the help of the Shasta County Secret Witness and the Kingsman Philanthropic Corporation.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
Each pledged an additional $10,000 and they're all hoping that this money will incentivize someone to come forward because someone has to know something. I mean, we know someone knows something. Right. They also have a link tree set up where you can find updated information on her case. So that along with the GoFundMe will be linked in the description box or the show notes.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
But it's also a great place where you can connect with them and connect with others as well, because I know so many of you out there have experienced domestic violence. And that's been one thing they've said has been really nice is to connect with some of these people that have come out to rallies and stuff who have experienced DV themselves.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
and just are looking for ways to support others and to make a connection. Now, if you want to go the extra mile, another big way that you can help this family is by emailing the Reading Rancheria Tribal Court.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
The email address will be linked below or in the show notes, and we've also created a template that you can copy and paste, asking them to work collaboratively with their family and law enforcement. If you want to, you can write the email in your own words or change or add, but please... What is the phrase? You catch more bees with honey or something. You know what I'm trying to say.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
Und das being said, Nicky's big heart and her kindness is just what made her who she was. And to tell you more about that, here are her sisters.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
Keep it nice, okay? We have found that when you come from an attacking angle... Often times it goes nowhere and gets shut down. So we've got to keep the respect there, you know, focus on what's important, stick to the goal here, which is to find answers and to get justice and not to send something angry that's just going to make someone mad. You know what I mean?
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
So please, please, if you decide to write your own... keep it friendly but you can easily just copy paste what we've already written this is a really fast and easy way that you can support this family and support nikki and with enough people which you guys have really truly come out in droves in other cases so i really hope that you can
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
Take some time out of your day to help with this, because it does make a big difference. And we're just hoping that this will encourage the tribal court to take the necessary steps to work with Nikki's family. It really is as simple as that, and it's a great way to help if you are not in a financial place to support their GoFundMe.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
As a reminder, Nikki is 4'11", 90 to 100 pounds, with brownish red hair. She also has a floral tattoo on her left forearm. And if you have any information regarding the disappearance of Nikki Chang, Saley McCain, please call the Shasta County Secret Witness at 530-245-6135 or the Kingsman Philanthropic Corporation at 786-509-7135.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
You can also directly message their family on their Facebook page with any information relating to Nikki's disappearance. That is all I have for you on this case at this point in time. I hope that there will be more answers soon and eventually justice because, God, this is just so beyond heartbreaking. I definitely want to hear your thoughts, so let me know. I know you will.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
Das war's für heute, Leute. Danke, dass ihr mitgekommen seid. Und folgt dem Show auf Spotify und Apple Podcasts. Das hilft mir wirklich. Wenn ihr die Video-Version von diesem Show sehen wollt, könnt ihr es auf meinem YouTube-Kanal finden, der verlinkt wird. Oder ihr könnt einfach Kendall Rae suchen. Ich bin bald wieder da, aber bis dann, bleibt sauber.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
So as you can see, after hearing the way that they describe her, Nikki was just an incredibly loved person. And I hate that we even have to be here talking about her story today. And as we get into the case here, you're going to realize what a strong person she was as well. I mean, she went through the worst of the worst before she went missing.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
And despite all of that, she had really turned the corner. was ready to get her life back on track. But before she was ever able to do that, she vanished. And many believe it's because of her husband, Tyler McCain. So who is Tyler? What's his story? And what's their story? Well, in the late 2000s, Nikki was living in Reading and she worked at the Wind River Casino as a cocktail waitress.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
Her sister Kay actually worked there too, which was super fun for the two of them. And that's where she met Tyler, who worked there in the slots department. Now, Tyler definitely had the reputation of being sort of a...
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
flirty guy and it wasn't something that Kay said she saw directly but it was something that she had heard from other people so when he took an interest in her sister she kind of warned her you know make sure that he's really into you and not you and a bunch of others But it did seem that Tyler was genuinely interested in Nikki and Nikki felt the same.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
Maybe not at first though, because he, according to her sisters, really wasn't her normal type. So he definitely had to put on the charm, but eventually he did manage to get her attention. And of course, like I've said, Nikki definitely had this super fun, bubbly personality, super funny. But she also had a introverted side. And she was more introverted than most people would have realized.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
And I guess Tyler was sort of the same way. And so her sisters believed that that was something that they sort of... connected over but tyler certainly was not without his faults he actually had a felony burglary charge and some vandalism charges but as i've said nikki always saw the best in people and she saw something in tyler that she wanted in her life
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
by everything that they have been through everything that nikki had gone through and i mean the way that they have just stepped up to support her sister and her children as well is is so commendable they have been so so strong and i'm just very grateful that they agreed to take time to come on the show and tell you about nikki story themselves because i know they are
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
So after dating and a super long engagement, I'm talking like six years, the two of them did end up getting married. Now, in Nikki's family's culture, weddings are a big deal, big production. It's normally like a three-day event, so lots of planning involved. And...
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
That's really why their engagement was so long, because the planning of it just seemed like really overwhelming, which I totally get. And eventually, after thinking about it over those six years, they ended up deciding to do something much more simple, because by that point they had already started their family.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
After struggling with fertility in the beginning, Nikki and Tyler ended up having four beautiful children. Und wahrlich gesagt, sahen diese ersten Jahre okay aus, zumindest okay genug, dass niemand wusste, wo all das enden würde. Denn obwohl es mit ihm angefangen hätte, endete es in der schlimmsten Weise möglich.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
Over the years, Nicky and Tyler's relationship definitely had some problems and one of the biggest problems was Nicky had accused him of infidelity, actually multiple infidelities. And one of those, Tyler actually did admit to. And... Wie Sie sich vorstellen können, war das ein riesiges Verheirat in ihrer Beziehung und hat viele Kämpfe und gesamte Träume verursacht.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
Aber letztendlich haben sie es durchgearbeitet, obwohl ihre Schwestern an einem Punkt wirklich dachten, dass das das Ende ihres Verheirats sein wird. Aber trotz dessen, wie schlimm es wurde, haben sie es letztendlich herausgearbeitet. Und der wirklich große Verlust in ihrem Verheirat geschah während der Pandemie.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
Und bei dem Zeitpunkt lebten sie auf einem 3,5-Akern-Bereich, genau außerhalb der Redding Rancheria-Reservation auf Olynda Road, in einem Bereich namens Happy Valley. Bevor die Pandemie schlug, war sie eine Zuhause-Mutter und er hatte einen Job als Spa-Manager. Aber nach dem Covid-Bereich schlug er seinen Job und war mit Nikki und den Kindern für längere Zeit zu Hause.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
Und wie ich gesagt habe, ist das, als Dinge wirklich einen großen Schritt gemacht haben, wie ich weiß, dass es für so viele Paare weltweit gemacht wurde. Und um die Reise zu beenden, hat Tyler sich in der Garage für lange Zeit isoliert und Nicky war unter der Überraschung, dass er Drogen machen könnte. His sister was actually an addict and she had been living in the garage unit that they had.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
And so when Tyler was spending more and more of his time in there with her and he was also acting different, like just strange behavior, Nikki was pretty sure, I mean, it became pretty clear that he was probably using meth. And whenever she would voice her concerns to him, it would turn into a giant argument and... Es war nicht nur schreien, es war schlecht und es wurde physisch.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
Und so gab es Zeiten, in denen Nicki sich und ihre Kinder im Kühlschrank lockten und Tyler versuchte, die Tür zu brechen. Nun, wir sind unsicher, ob er jemals mit den Kindern gewaltig war. Das ist völlig unbekannt. Aber ihre Schwestern glauben, dass die Gewalt an Nicki gedreht wurde und dass sie das gemacht hat, was sie konnte, um sie zu schützen.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
Aber als sie sich schützen konnte, stand sie nicht viel von der Chance. Nicky war eine sehr kleine Person. Ich spreche von klein. Sie war 4'11 und ungefähr 90 bis 100 Kilo, was bei Tyler nichts war. Das gesagt, wie ich vorhin gesagt habe, war Nicky sehr hart. Seine Schwester sagte, dass sie schmutzig war und versucht hätte, zurückzukämpfen.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
Aber natürlich, in Bezug auf ihre Größe, war es sehr schwierig für Nicky, das zu tun. Und schade ist, dass ihre Familie nicht mal bewusst war, dass es so schlecht wurde. The pandemic, as far as we know, is when things got physical, but because they were sheltered inside, her siblings weren't able to actually see any of the signs of abuse.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
They'd obviously been texting like normal, but Nikki didn't tell them the extent of what was happening. Her sisters did generally know that she and Tyler had their arguments, but they just didn't realize that it had turned that violent. And it was only when restrictions were lifted that they saw her again and they realized quickly what was going on.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
quite quite busy these days but it is always just so valuable to hear directly from family members throughout this episode you're going to be hearing from chloe and k and i just can't thank them enough for trusting me with their sister's story and if you are familiar with nikki's case at all or have watched any other coverage you likely have heard from them before they have been very active in the case they have dedicated a ton of time to
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
And once they were aware of the abuse, they desperately tried to get Nikki to report him. And just like so many others in a situation like this, Nikki didn't want him to get in trouble. She didn't want to report him for that reason, but especially because she didn't want to break up their family. And that's also why she didn't tell anyone to begin with.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
And her sisters also believed that she was trying to come across as strong. I mean, she was the big sister in the family. She wanted them to believe that... Sie konnte es beheben, dass sie okay war. Außerdem, mit Nickys großartigem Herz, dachte sie, dass Tyler sich verändern würde. Oder am wenigsten, der alte Tyler war noch da und vielleicht mit der Zeit würde es wieder normal sein.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
Und sie hatten tatsächlich auf und ab nach der Marriage Counseling gegangen in den Jahren, aber es ging nie wieder normal. In der Tat, es gab einen Unfall, That was seen by a witness. And this witness said that Nikki was running barefoot away from her house, screaming for help with bloodied feet from running through broken glass.
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Mom of 4 Vanishes Before Abusive Husband’s Trial: Where Is Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain?
And that same person saw cuts on her face and marks around her neck that made them think that she might have just been choked. And then in another instance, a witness said that they saw Tyler chase Nikki through their yard with a wrench. And a different time, they heard him yell that he was going to cut her head off. Das ist absolut furchtbar, wenn man sich über diese Erfahrung nachdenkt.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
But his job was really only to seek out the contracts. People who knew them often described Natalie as sort of the brains behind the operation. Not that Michael wasn't smart, but Natalie was really the one conducting the business for the most part. So it was Natalie who was responsible for everything that happened after.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
Everything from fulfilling orders to handling the money to, you know, everything in between. And in terms of the official split on the business, she was listed as the 51% owner and he had the other 49%. Which they told people that they did this so that they could label themselves as a woman-owned business in order to hopefully get more contracts. And it seemed like they were getting a ton of them.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
The Cochrans really went from living a very comfortable, happy life to a life of total luxury. They bought more properties, more cars, more jewelry, more vacations, luxury goods. They even bought an airplane hangar because Michael liked planes and was working on getting his pilot's license.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
Now, Michael actually did do a ton of charitable things with all of this new money, like donating a weight room to a local school and buying a house for the youth pastor who was about to become homeless. And at one point, they told Tony that they were even going to buy a town in Africa and build homes for everyone who lived there.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
And truth be told, Michael definitely did do a lot of spending, which...
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
you know gets pointed out later on in the case but you have to really keep two things in mind one he didn't grow up like this at all so suddenly having all this money was very exciting for him and you know he was living a completely new lifestyle and two he really trusted the woman that he was in love with his business partner that this money was legitimately theirs and speaking of legitimacy i wanted to point something out here that's really crucial
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
TSG was technically a legitimate business. Natalie filed all the paperwork and it was established as a real company. But that's all she ever did. She also did the same for their second company as well, which was called Technical Management Solutions or TMS. And TMS was supposedly an IT company that provided technology consulting services.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
And I bring this up because one thing that a lot of people really question here is how did Michael not know? And I think the simplest explanation I can give you to make sense of that is Natalie was very good at manipulating people. She was a master manipulator.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
Plus, it obviously would have been a lot harder to convince him about all of this and how legitimate it was if she didn't set it up as a legitimate business. And she really did that to keep him and anyone else from finding out what was truly going on. And it didn't really work too well because people did end up finding out because those returns she promised, yeah, they never came in.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
What's shocking, though, is that Natalie was really able to keep people at bay for quite a long time. And... It wasn't just adults she was stealing from. She was also stealing from kids. It turns out, and God, this is slimy beyond words, but she was actually taking money from that baseball league that she became the treasurer of.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
To give you a little more information and background on that, in February of 2018, there was a fundraiser to raise money for the Shady Spring baseball and volleyball teams. And this was just wild to me. I mean, maybe to some of you it's not so insane, but I guess...
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
Here we are living in these current times, but I guess TSG was claiming to donate semi-automatic weapons as bingo prizes at the fundraiser. And apparently it was a big hit because they ended up raising $32,000. And half of it went to the baseball team and the other half of it went to the volleyball team. But as you can imagine, since this is Natalie, a few weird things happened.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
She talked about how he never missed a day of school, how he was always on the principal's honor list, and how he was often involved in after-school clubs. Now, she didn't specifically say what those clubs were, so I'm not sure what he was involved with, but if I had to guess, they definitely had something to do with sports and possibly leadership as well.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
Thank you.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
That's Nutrafol.com spelled N-U-T-R-A-F-O-L.com, promo code KendallRayGift. Once again, Nutrafol.com, promo code KendallRayGift. A few people realized that a bunch of transactions were being made from the account when nobody on the board had approved purchases. And so they ended up hiring a PI to conduct an audit. And that's when they saw there was only $32 left.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
And the stolen money went towards purchases including $1,142 spent at a sporting goods store, $2,099 spent on Yeti cooler items, $402 on a bow and arrow, plus $1,000 Amazon purchases, just random things, ATM withdrawals, money spent at TJ Maxx and HomeGoods and places like Olive Garden, just a bunch of random stuff.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
Because Michael was a very athletic person. He loved sports from a super young age, and that passion only grew as he got older. He also just had a major passion for his health, and he got really into lifting weights when he was younger. He actually got his first set of barbells at just the age of 10.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
And considering Natalie was the treasurer and these purchases were made after she got that role, it seemed like... she was probably responsible. But surprisingly, nothing official was ever done about it. However, people definitely started to question things such as their own personal investments in TSG.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
Towards the end of 2018 and into the beginning of 2019, investors were coming to the Cochran's wondering where the hell their returns were. But Michael often didn't know what to say to people and he only knew as much as his wife had told him and she was telling everyone, Michael included, Excuse after excuse.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
And one of her early excuses was that the company was being audited and her accounts were frozen. But the money would go through as soon as that was over, so no worries there, people. And then another big excuse, which happened to really just be coincidental and quite convenient for Natalie, had to do with the December 2018 government shutdown.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
Because if the government wasn't paying people, then of course neither could she. And boy, was she lucky with that one. Then another excuse, and this is where the faking an illness element comes into play for Natalie. After the government shutdown was over, obviously she needed a new excuse. And she started telling people that she had cancer.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
As if it couldn't get any worse at this point, and it gets much worse from here, she lied about having leukemia. And she even told people that she wasn't going to seek treatment. She was going to let God take care of it, that they were going to just let her live out whatever was left of her life and hope for the best. And obviously that terrified her friends and family.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
And some of them even went and got their bone marrow tested to see if they were a match and could possibly help to save her life. But remember her friend Tony and how her husband had actually tragically passed away? due to leukemia, well, she immediately knew something was up because Natalie said that she was in stage three and she knew that leukemia is not described in stages.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
It's described in types. Natalie also showed her a bald spot in the back of her head. She would flip her hair down and show this to people. And she said that it was, of course, from chemo. But Tony said it looked like she had just shaved a patch in the back of her head to try to make it look like she was losing hair.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
And I'm going to be honest with you guys, I'm not sure what Michael's knowledge was of this. I would imagine he knew since friends of theirs were trying to get involved. But when it comes to this whole part of the story, I don't really have much more information than that. I will say I do think it would be incredibly difficult to fake having cancer to a partner.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
But at the same time, Natalie, like I said, she's a master manipulator. She's incredibly convincing and she was very thorough too. Get this. She would send her investors emails and letters pretending to be people from different government agencies, explaining to them why they hadn't gotten their money.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
She straight up used a Department of Defense letterhead, claiming to be someone from the department. And the sad part of it is, as I mentioned earlier, that these schemes rely heavily on trust. And the people that she got to invest...
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
And she said one of his favorite things to do was just go into his room, blast his music and work out. And when he got a little older, he even got first place in a powerlifting competition. And his mother was super, super proud of him for that. And it was actually at a sporting goods fitness type store that he ended up meeting Natalie Jessup.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
trusted her I mean there were people who like I said cared about her and that's what makes this oh my god so heartbreaking and what's really really sad is some of these people never got any of their money back at all I know that Michael's mom Donna for example didn't get a penny from Natalie at any point which makes sense when you think about all the cash that Natalie pocketed and was spending on herself and her family and all these new cars and upgrades of their house and you know
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
All these different things. And listen to this. Natalie was going around telling people that her business was worth $500 million. And I could really just go on and on about all the shit that she did in terms of the fraud part of things, but... Really, that could just be an episode all on its own.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
So for the purposes of this episode, though, the most important thing to know is that Natalie was running a lucrative Ponzi scheme where she defrauded 11 people and several banks also into supplying her with more than $2.5 million. And as February of 2019 approached, a lot of people were starting to get fed up. Michael included.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
His mom and his friends were now coming to him asking him tons of questions about their money, questions he didn't even know how to answer, and he was just as confused about why they weren't getting their money. Just listen to these text messages. On January 31st, 2019, Natalie texted Michael, I'm on the phone with Bank of America. To which Michael responded, are we a thousand percent?
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
Natalie said, yes, she is sending them with tracking. Then on February 4th, Michael texted her saying, money isn't there. Natalie replied saying, I know. They said even if it came in at 7 a.m., it wouldn't show until 9 a.m. And she followed that up with spoke to wire department, all four transmitting the 88 and 297 will possibly show up today. The 4.8 million in the a.m.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
and the 23.8 million tomorrow sometime. The amounts held them up, but they have them all and they aren't in OFAC or anything like that. Then Michael's response was, I don't understand why it's taking so long. It's Bank of America to Bank of America.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
And she told him that they're just, quote, verifying funds because of large amounts and new account, which Michael lastly replied with, doesn't make sense to me. Now, to me, and I'm sure to a lot of you, too, you'll have to let me know your opinions on these texts. But to me, these texts don't sound like a guy who knew that this was a Ponzi scheme.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
I mean, I think he was completely in the dark when it came to that side of things. And he was sure as hell getting close to figuring it out, though. So on February 6th, 2019, he and Natalie were scheduled to charter a flight to Virginia to visit a specific Bank of America branch.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
And while Bank of America thought that they were meeting to discuss opening a new bank account where Natalie said they would be depositing millions and millions of dollars, my Michael thought that they were going to discuss why they hadn't been paid, and they hadn't been paid because these accounts never existed.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
So obviously, to keep the lies going, it was crucial to Natalie that the meeting didn't happen. Otherwise, Michael was going to realize the truth. And shocker, the meeting did not happen. That morning, just before 7 a.m., Natalie texted the bank representative and the pilot that she and Michael had to postpone because she was sick.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
Michael was just 17 at the time and he had actually gone into the store with his mom and Natalie just happened to be at the register. And Donna said that while they were at the store, she definitely noticed some flirting going on. And when they left, she even brought it up to Michael and said that girl was definitely flirting with you, which he kind of brushed off.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
And I don't know if she was really sick, but she did go to the doctor's office that day where she received a steroid shot, which actually was the second steroid shot that she supposedly received. Two days earlier, she had texted her friend Stephanie Hamilton, who was a physician, to ask if she could prescribe her steroids because she said she had pneumonia.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
And Stephanie had no problem with that, so she said that she would get her some steroid pills. But Natalie specifically requested steroids.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
an injectable one and said that she was completely fine administering it herself so just keep that in mind all right so after the doctor's visit on the 6th natalie went home and around that time she texted jennifer davis explaining the situation about the cancelled flight and being too sick to fly and in these texts she mentions that her doctor had given her a high dose of steroids and she basically said that the sickness that she had was made worse because she also has cancer
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
And so the steroids were supposed to help. And she also said that she had to start taking insulin shots because the steroid was causing her blood sugar to increase. And being a good friend, Jennifer asked if she could help in any way, to which Natalie asked to borrow a vial of insulin from her son.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
And keep in mind that because Natalie was once a pharmacist, Jennifer just trusted that this was what the insulin was for. But if she was really supposed to take it, obviously her doctor would have just prescribed it to her. But she wasn't, so he didn't. Not knowing this, though, Jennifer went ahead and put the insulin in a bag along with some other get well soon items.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
Just, you know, trying to be a good friend. And then she had her husband, Chris, drop them off at the Cochran's house. So he dropped that off around 10.30 a.m., and then only two hours later, both Chris and Jennifer received a very frightening text message from Natalie, and it was actually a picture of Michael collapsed on the kitchen floor.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
And when they asked what happened, Natalie made it seem like everything was fine. Can you imagine getting a text from someone that has a picture of any loved one or their partner lying on the—collapsed on the kitchen floor and just— being like, it's fine, he's gonna be okay. What?
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
And she would go on to tell many versions of her story, but the gist of it was that he had went into the kitchen, threw up in the sink, had a seizure, and then just fell to the ground. Some people even heard from her that he had also hit his head, but that part didn't make it into all of her stories.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
Oh, and Natalie also assured the Davises that some of their contractors came over and helped move Michael to the couch where she said he was, quote, sleeping it off. And throughout that morning, a handful of people actually came to their house after getting a similar text from her, including their friend John, who happened to be a state trooper.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
But not too long after that, Donna found out that the two of them were dating and their relationship progressed very quickly. They both graduated high school and attended West Virginia University, where Michael studied information technology and Natalie studied to become a pharmacist. And to most people's surprise who knew them, they ended up getting engaged their first semester of college.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
And basically, he came in and took one look at Michael and said he needs medical attention immediately. And Natalie basically refused and refused.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
I'm not going to repeat this every time, but just know that every single person who stepped foot in their home that day had the exact same reaction, which was obviously shock and concern and that Michael needed medical attention and that he needed it now.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
However, Natalie said that Michael absolutely despised hospitals, and he told her that if she ever brought him to one again, she would regret it. And for some context, Michael had experienced some health issues that had landed him in the hospital in October and November of 2018. So that was just a few months before.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
First, he had back surgery, and then there was also a concern that he was sick from black mold exposure. But now in hindsight, even that sickness has been called into question. He actually had told a friend that he thought he was being poisoned and I'll let you guys do what you want with that information.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
Anyway, the state trooper tried his best to get Natalie to take Michael into the hospital, but she just wouldn't do it. So he ends up calling his wife, who is Natalie's physician friend, Stephanie, who we just talked about. But even Stephanie Hamilton couldn't convince Natalie that she needed to get him help.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
She even tried to tell her that, you know, if Michael woke up in the hospital and he was pissed off, that she would happily take the blame. But nope, Natalie said that she was going to let him sleep it off.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
And I know a lot of people are going to question why Stephanie and the others who had gone to the house that day just didn't ignore Natalie and went ahead and took Michael to the hospital anyway. And I definitely found myself asking that too. But I want to point out that
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
Natalie had a doctorate, which made her at least somewhat trustworthy when it came to medical decisions in a lot of these people's eyes. And again, you got to keep in mind that they're dealing with a master manipulator here. She told everyone that came over that she was monitoring his vitals and that this is what was best for him. And as his wife, she knew best.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
And she was even texting Chris and Jennifer and making it sound like he was conscious, saying things like he doesn't want to go to the hospital. So that was really confusing to them and also super deceptive because he never regained consciousness.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
And then at one point, Natalie's sister Penny came over and the two of them, along with Natalie's daughter, had to change his clothes because he had peed himself. And that alone should have been an indication to get him help, but that didn't happen for several more hours. And it wasn't until Chris showed up later that evening that Michael was finally transferred to the hospital.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
He got a text from Natalie asking him to come over, and when he saw the condition his best friend was in, he just didn't give her a choice. So he drove Michael to Raleigh General Hospital with Natalie in the back seat. And once they got there, it was discovered that Michael's blood sugar was a shocking 21. And for reference, a normal blood sugar level is between 80 and 120.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
So that is very, very, very concerning to say the least. And hypoglycemia, which is what this was, if left untreated, can result in a seizure, a coma, and in some cases even death. And just FYI, Miss Expert Natalie was telling people earlier that day that his blood sugar was in normal range. Clearly it wasn't, though. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
So things, like I said, happened very, very quickly. In November of 1999, Natalie called Donna and said that they were getting married. And by May of 2000, they tied the knot. Now, from her interviews, Donna seemed to not be a big fan of this idea at all. And, you know, she was concerned that things were moving so quickly and she wanted him to focus on school. And she expressed that to them.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
But by this point, the ball was already rolling. And unfortunately, something happened their senior year of college that caused a slight rift in the family. Now, Donna has kept the details private, so I'm not exactly sure what happened. But in her interview, she basically said that something happened and it sparked some problems.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
And whatever it was, Michael apologized for it, but Natalie never did. And I guess there had already been problems with her, too, especially leading up to the wedding.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
i guess leading up to the big day natalie blew up at donna over something and i'm not sure if it's related to the other situation that they haven't been public about or what but basically she tried to keep donna and ed from even going to their son's wedding which is very very sad you would think you would want your parents your partner's parents
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
to participate in such a big day for the sake of your partner right i mean he was very close with his parents and that's one thing that is very frustrating about natalie is she's always tried to push this narrative that michael wasn't close with his parents and that's not true at all i mean every family of course has their problems and whatnot and
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
I cover, obviously, murders and attempted murders. And then I also cover financial frauds, Ponzi schemes, things like that. And then also people who fake illnesses. And most of the time, that's cancer. And the case that I am going to be telling you about today involves all three of those. We're going to be talking about Natalie and Michael Cochran.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
Many people, for whatever reason, don't want their parents at their wedding or want to X them out of their lives, and I totally get that, but that is just not the case here at all. And to say that they weren't involved in his life, which is another narrative she tried to push, is just a blatant lie.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
Now that might have been the why, but the important thing that Tom had to prove, obviously, was the how. And of course, the simplest way to answer that is with insulin. According to prosecutors, Natalie manipulated her good friend Jennifer Davis into letting her have some of her son's insulin. and she used that to fatally dose her husband.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
Afterwards, she came up with an elaborate plan to convince people that he had a seizure and just needed to sleep it off. And I'd say the two biggest things the prosecution needed to convince the jury of was that Michael was a healthy 38-year-old man and that he knew nothing about the Ponzi scheme.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
Obviously, establishing his health was going to be crucial because it would prove that he had no reason to have suddenly collapsed with a blood sugar of 21. And then they needed to prove that he knew nothing about the Ponzi scheme to help support the motive of why she would want to kill him. The defense, on the other hand, needed to do just the opposite.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
It was their position that Michael's death was the result of pumping himself full of steroids and supplements, which they say were purchased from Mexico and weren't safe for human consumption.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
And actually, recently it has come to light that she was lying to Donna and Ed, saying that Michael... didn't want to be around them. And that was all just to try and keep them out of his life. But jumping back into the timeline here, Natalie and Michael went on to have two kids, a son and a daughter.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
All right, so to kick testimony off for the state, the prosecution's first witness was Robert Heinzman, the lead investigator on the Ponzi scheme case. And his testimony was crucial because he confirmed that Michael had no idea that his wife was running a Ponzi scheme, which obviously helped to support their motive. Now, the defense pointed out that Michael benefited greatly from that money.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
And honestly, the prosecution didn't deny that. But when it came down to the facts, there wasn't a shred of evidence suggesting that he knew about it, And one thing that the prosecution came back to a lot was the fact that Natalie was really the one dealing with the money, not Michael. And Michael was really only responsible, as we talked about earlier, for finding the contracts.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
And because their son is still a minor, I'm not going to be sharing his name or any photos of him with you today. But their other daughter, Nicole, is I believe around at least 20-ish years old and has been, you know, featured in the media and everything. So you will hear me mention her by name.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
And this was something that not only Robert testified to, but a lot of others did as well. Even their friends said that it was always Natalie who handled the money. And Jennifer Davis was one of those friends and she was next on the stand and her testimony was very pivotal for the prosecution.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
So something that Natalie told investigators was that the insulin was in her fridge because Jennifer had a diabetic son and she had the vial in case she ever needed to give him a shot. The issue with that, though, obviously, is the fact that there were text messages as proof of her violence. asking Jennifer for the insulin for herself. So that obviously didn't go very far.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
Jennifer's testimony went on for quite a while, where she talked both about the timeline of that morning and also how Natalie had in-depth knowledge of how insulin works. And considering she was a pharmacist, the prosecution wanted to drive home the fact that she had intimate knowledge on how to poison him.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
Jennifer also confirmed that she never asked Natalie to keep insulin at her house for her son, plus her son had an insulin pump. Oh, and listen to this. When Michael was in hospice, and this is really disturbing, like beyond words, but Jennifer testified that Natalie had asked her to help her put a pump
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
pillow over his face because she didn't like seeing him that way and honestly i don't even know what to make of that different thoughts are coming to mind i'm sure you guys are going to be on the same page with me but i obviously can't make any accusations without proof or maybe she really just didn't like seeing him that way because it was making her feel guilty since she was responsible for it
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
I don't know. It's so whack to think about why anyone would ask someone to do that. But anyway, on cross-examination, the defense tried to get Jennifer to admit that Michael's health was bad, asking about the Mexican supplements that he was allegedly taking and about his past hospitalizations, which was asked to a lot of Michael's friends who took the stand.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
But like the others, she was adamant that he was healthy. She never saw him inject himself with anything, and she definitely did not think that he was sick. Then a Bank of America employee took the stand, and he talked about that meeting that Natalie had canceled.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
But anyway, the four of them settled into Daniels, West Virginia, on a beautiful four-acre property that Michael practically renovated from top to bottom. And by all accounts, they were a normal, happy family living a very nice life. Michael was working in IT, and Natalie had a very nice job as a pharmacist, and they were also... very active in their community.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
He also reiterated that Natalie was always the point of contact for money-related discussions, further proving that Michael wasn't involved. And then another big piece of testimony that we heard came from Stephanie Hamilton. She talked a lot about giving Natalie that steroid two days prior to Michael's collapse and about her perception of his condition when she went over there that day.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
And her testimony helped highlight Natalie's reluctance to get medical attention for her husband, who, in Stephanie's professional opinion, needed it. And then there was Chris Davis's testimony, which... was very emotional and impactful. I mean, he was Michael's best friend and he firmly believed that Michael was a healthy guy.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
Chris said that he had never heard of these so-called Mexican medications and that anything Michael was taking supplement-wise just came from GNC. He also testified about the timeline of that day and how he was the one who finally brought him to the hospital. and how even though Michael was hospitalized a few months before this, that this instance was not like the others.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
And obviously, the defense wants the jury to believe that Michael was unhealthy, and they wanted the jury to think that Michael had a history of seizures, and that would therefore explain why he collapsed suddenly in February. But this wasn't the same.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
The defense attorney also asked specifically about Michael's use of steroids and anabolics. But Chris said that to his knowledge, his best friend didn't take steroids or anabolics. And just FYI, insulin is an anabolic hormone. All right, so then we also heard from one of the contractors. And he remembered Michael telling him back in 2018 that he felt like he had been poisoned.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
And from an FBI chemist... who analyzed the substances found in the Cochran's home. And it turns out they found a vial for something called enclimafine citrate, which is a medication that can boost testosterone and muscle mass. And you might be thinking, okay, well, maybe Michael was taking steroids for bodybuilding.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
But upon further inspection, they discovered that the contents inside that vial had been replaced with something else. We also heard from an endocrinologist who talked about how excessive insulin can lead to death and how Michael wasn't taking any medications that would have caused his blood sugar to drop as low as 21.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
Then on day five, the jury heard from Dr. Uribe, the medical examiner from the second autopsy and exhumation. He, if you remember, was the one who couldn't find insulin in his tissue. But he did testify that being poisoned with insulin was the only thing that could explain his cause of death. Now, lastly, I want to talk about Timothy Bledsoe's testimony.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
He was another one of the lead investigators in the Ponzi scheme case, and he really sealed the deal that Michael didn't know about the fraud when he went over those texts that I read you earlier. I mean, clearly, Michael was just as confused as everyone else. And he also said that he never found any evidence to suggest that Natalie ever had cancer.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
And then another thing that he talked about was three interviews that he had done with Natalie back in 2019. She had one interview in April and then two back to back in May. And it was in that third and final interview when investigators first heard about insulin. And get this, she was actually the one to introduce it into their minds before they even found it.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
In these three stories, she told some version of Michael went to the kitchen, threw up in the sink, fell and hit his head, and then collapsed on the floor. And in interview one and two, she said that she thought he had collapsed because of these sketchy supplements that he was taking. But in that third interview, she said that he collapsed after injecting himself with insulin.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
Michael was super involved in coaching his son's baseball and football teams, and she was described as a sports socialite who took on managing sports-related events, ordering jerseys, and things like that. She was even the treasurer of the middle school baseball program. And through everything they were involved in, that's how the Cochrans ended up meeting a lot of their friends.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
And that's when she tried to explain that Michael used insulin as part of his bodybuilding regimen. Like how stupid does she think these people are? And ultimately, I really think Timothy was a really good final witness because his testimony really connected all of the dots. And with that, the prosecution rested their case.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
Now, when it came to the defense calling witnesses, they had less people, but solid arguments were still made. And I actually think that's one thing you guys should understand here is that this was not a one-sided fight. And I do think the defense attorney was very obnoxious. He objected to literally everything, which was really annoying.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
But there were moments where his arguments raised serious doubt. And here are some examples of that. For starters, Natalie may have been a former pharmacist with intimate knowledge on how to poison someone, but he argued that, you know, why would she do it with something as traceable as insulin?
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
Also, why would she just keep it hanging out in her fridge for four months after the fact if it was the murder weapon? The defense also questioned why, if she killed Michael, she didn't cremate him. They also pointed out that Natalie made no effort to hide the evidence and therefore there was no way she was guilty. Now, my personal explanation for those things is I think she's just dumb.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
But yeah, I don't know. That's all I have to say on that. But they did point out, you know, why would she have invited all of these people into her home? She could have told nobody and made up some story that she just came home and found him unconscious. But again, in my opinion, I do think that can be explained by not being so smart.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
The defense also argued that the prosecution never really explained how the insulin ended up inside Michael to begin with. It's not like she attacked him as far as we know with a needle and then he fell to the floor. It just, of course, wouldn't have happened that fast. Now, this is just my opinion, but we did learn that Michael was allergic to benzodiazepines.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
We also learned that two days before he collapsed, Natalie was prescribed Xanax, traces of which were found in his system. So my thought process, and of course this is just my opinion and I cannot prove this in any way, but I think it's possible that she may have drugged him with the Xanax with a benzo, which he's allergic to, and then once he was already knocked out, then she...
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
you know, poisoned him with the insulin. Again, those are just my thoughts. I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on that. So let me know. But moving on, the two star witnesses for the defense actually were the Cochran children. And I really want to be careful when I talk about their testimony.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
I mean, they have been through a lot and there have been many people who questioned their statements and have insinuated that maybe they were
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
manipulated by their mom to say certain things and of course she as we know is a master manipulator so that's possible but i definitely don't want to put any blame or accusations on them i mean they were 9 and 13 years old when their dad died and it's been pointed out that they continued living with their mom who could have done and said anything she wanted i can't say what she did or didn't do or if they were manipulated by her
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
Chris and Jennifer Davis were probably their closest friends, and Chris ended up being a coach right alongside Michael. And he also became their family attorney. And soon enough, they were even going on vacations together, spending tons of time together.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
But I will tell you that Donna, Michael's mother, was incredibly hurt by the things that they said in court about their father. But to summarize, both Nicole and her brother took the stand and they were asked countless questions about their relationship with Michael, as well as about his use of supplements and steroids.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
And both kids testified that their dad had become aggressive, forgetful, and lethargic in the months leading up to his death. They both said that he was not very involved in their lives and that he was always the one working on the business, not their mom.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
The son, whose face they didn't show because he's a minor, said that one time when he was laying between his parents, he saw his dad's computer and there was a contract pulled up. He mentioned how his dad talked to him a lot about the business and, you know, he's just again suggesting that his dad was the one who was running the ship.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
He actually had a few stories about times when his dad was working on the business. And, you know, nobody was questioning if Michael worked on the business. Of course he did. And we know that he was constantly trying to find new contracts. But the question really was whether or not he was involved in the financial part of things.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
And so many have questioned if a child who, keep in mind, was seven or eight at the time would have even been aware of something like that and could really assess who was involved with what and how much. The kids were also asked about their dad's health regimen, and both of them said that he took a lot of supplements.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
Nicole specifically said that he would lay them all out on the counter before he took them and that it would be enough to cover an entire dinner plate. So that's a lot. She said that he took up to 40 pills a day and that she would watch as he would scoop them into his mouth and take handfuls at a time.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
She also stated that her dad told her that he was taking steroids from Mexico and that she watched him take them via a dropper that he would put in his mouth. Now, the son testified something similar, except he said that his dad was specifically injecting them. However, when they asked him if he ever saw his dad physically inject himself, he said no.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
Another thing that was interesting is when each of them were testifying, Natalie was very expressive. For example, when Nicole got off the stand, she smiled at her and mouthed, I love you, which... It is very interesting, of course. Parents expressing love for their children isn't anything that strange, but a lot of people question if there was manipulation going on even in those moments.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
And because Natalie was a pharmacist, she ended up being a very valuable asset to the Davises when they found out that one of their sons had type 1 diabetes. Natalie actually specialized in diabetes management. So when he was diagnosed, she was the one teaching Chris and Jennifer everything they needed to know from giving insulin shots to managing the disease, giving them tips.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
And then there was Natalie's sister, Penny, who testified, and she was the only person who said that she saw Michael actually inject himself. And she said that it was a long time ago while they were on a family vacation. But when she was asked what he injected himself with, she admitted that she didn't know what it was.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
Penny also testified that Michael hated hospitals to help justify why Natalie didn't seek medical attention sooner. The defense also called their own medical examiner to the stand, who said he ruled Michael's death undetermined and inconclusive. A forensic pathologist testified that Michael had an enlarged heart, likely caused by those supplements, and that also could have caused him to die.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
Now, through the entire trial, everyone thought that eventually Natalie would take the stand. But at the very last minute, she decided not to, which I would have loved to see her up on the stand and what she would have said. And then on that note, Donna, Michael's mother, was also supposed to take the stand for the prosecution, of course. But long story short, she ended up not being allowed to.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
And so with all of that, the defense rested their case. Robert Heinzman was called once more as a rebuttal witness, but after that, testimony was over. And I just gotta say, the jury seemed to be locked in the entire trial, and it was very long and complicated at times, but they seemed very attentive and took it very seriously.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
And so it was no surprise to me when they came back with their verdict in just two hours. And I'm happy to say that verdict was guilty. And there were a lot of mixed emotions. But for Donna and Ed, of course, it was a moment of relief. After six years, Michael was finally getting justice. So the following day, Natalie appeared for what's called the mercy phase.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
Now, that's a lot like the sentencing phase, but the jury comes back in and hears more testimony about why the guilty party should or should not receive mercy. So if she was granted mercy, she would get life in prison but be eligible for parole in just 15 years. And if she wasn't granted mercy, then she would get life in prison without the possibility of parole.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
And the defense goes first in this phase, and they called up her sister, niece, parents, and two children who did everything in their power to paint Natalie as a loving mother who had already missed out on so much. And they really tugged on the heartstrings, talking about all the things that she's not going to experience with her kids if she's in jail for life.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
She was crying when both her kids took the stand and you could feel the emotion from both Nicole and her brother. But as proven by the jury, their mom was and is guilty of killing their dad, even if they didn't believe so. And my heart truly goes out to them. I mean, they... of course, have really lost both of their parents here in a horrible, horrible way.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
And it's got to be incredibly painful and so, so confusing. And when Natalie's mom took the stand, she talked about the fact that while in jail, her daughter wrote a journal workbook. It's a 90-day devotion and reflection journal specifically for people in jail that aims to help them, quote, embark on a journey of self-discovery, spiritual growth, and resilience.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
And I personally get the sense that the Cochran's really were a family that a lot of people would turn to because they always seemed like they were willing to lend a hand. One of their new friends was a woman named Toni, a mother, and she had actually lost her husband to leukemia. Keep that in mind because it's important later.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
The defense also played up a heart condition that they said Natalie has and how she won't receive proper care if she's in prison for the rest of her life, which she probably should have thought about more before she decided to murder someone. Now, when it came to the prosecution's witnesses, we heard from several of Michael's friends, both Ed and Donna, and lastly, Robert Heinzman.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
And when it was their turn to take the stand, Natalie's family and supporters all left the courtroom. They clearly couldn't bear to hear what Michael's loved ones had to say, which is so unfair considering they all sat and listened to them try and ruin his character.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
I definitely understand her children leaving and give them a total pass for that, but everyone else who bailed in those moments, that is really disgusting to me. I seriously wish I could play every minute of every one of their testimonies, but this mercy phase took an entire day. I do want to play a snippet from some of them, though, because I do think it's very powerful.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
But she said that when her husband passed, Michael really stepped up and tried to be a somewhat of a father figure to her children. Tony has three kids, and Michael took them fishing and to sports practices, and he really became super involved in each of their lives, which I think speaks very highly about Michael's character.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
And I would really encourage you guys to go and listen to Donna's entire statement. She wasn't allowed to read it in full during the mercy phase because she had written eight pages and they told her that in the interest of time, she needed to summarize it. But in that interview with her that I told you about earlier, she reads the full thing. So I will have that linked below for you.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
And in the end, after only one hour of deliberation, the jury ruled that Natalie Cochran should not receive mercy, and therefore the judge sentenced her to life in prison without parole, which actually made her the first woman in West Virginia convicted of murder since 1991 to not receive a recommendation of mercy.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
So since then, Natalie's defense team has filed motions for acquittal and a new trial, but those motions were luckily denied on February 25th. So unless they end up filing a motion that ends up being granted, then she will remain in prison for the rest of her life, which in my opinion is exactly where she belongs. Thank you so much for watching. I'm sure I know how you guys will feel about that.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
Maybe there are some of you out there who think there was enough reasonable doubt, and I'd love to hear from you as well and why you think that. But I just wanted to end this by saying that my heart truly goes out to everyone who loved Michael, especially to his immediate family, to his parents, and to his children who had to go through all of this at no fault of their own.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
I'm also just so impressed by Donna and Ed for their ability to remain so strong during all of this after everything they have been through. I mean, don't forget, they lost their entire life savings, their retirement savings because of Natalie. And that is just horrible. I mean, so many people suffered because of Natalie. But obviously the one who suffered most was Michael.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
Now, jumping forward a bit, in 2017, Natalie announced that she was quitting her job as a pharmacist, and she was going to be starting a new business, a government contracting business, and she did this because she was inspired by the movie War Dogs, which is a movie that I had never seen before.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
That is going to be it for me today, guys. Thank you for joining me for another episode and make sure you follow the show on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. It really does help me out. If you want to watch the video version of this show, you can find it on my YouTube channel, which will be linked, or you can just search Kendall Ray.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
I will be back with another episode soon, but until then, stay safe out there.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
I'm surprised I've never seen it because it's very similar, in my opinion, to Wolf on Wall Street, which is one of my favorite movies of all time. And I decided to watch it last night just to get a better sense of where Natalie's head was at, because this actually the movie comes up again later on. And I really enjoyed it. It's wild.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
And it was interesting to learn more about this world of government contracting businesses because it was actually something I really knew nothing about. But if you haven't seen it, War Dogs is a movie starring Jonah Hill and Miles Teller, and they take advantage of a government initiative that allows businesses to bid on military contracts.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
In the movie, which is inspired by a true story, actually, they land this $300 million contract where they have to supply ammunition to the Afghan National Army. And this is a little bit of a spoiler alert, so if you want to watch the movie, maybe just skip a couple seconds forward, but it's not too much of a spoiler.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
And by all accounts, they seem to be living a very luxurious, happy life, happy couple. But it was all a lie. This case is definitely going to piss you off. It's equal parts infuriating and heartbreaking and just mind-blowing how someone can think they're going to get away with doing everything possible
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
Basically, they end up way in over their heads because they put in a bid for a contract, and it is... Like, I can't remember exactly. I want to say like $50 million less than the competing offers. And so they like kind of did the math wrong and have to cut corners to try and fill the agreement. And eventually they end up in prison.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
And it's crazy because the foreshadowing of her loving this movie so much and being inspired to start her business because of it. it's just honestly uncanny and what blew my mind and the reason i decided to watch it for myself is because natalie would tell her friends that she would have new employees watch the movie as an onboarding video Makes zero sense to me.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
Hello, everyone, and welcome to another episode of True Crime with Kendall Rae. Thank you so much for joining me today. And if you are new to the show, then welcome. I'm so happy to have you here. And I hope you guys are all having a great day, at least maybe an okay day. But anyway, today I have a wild case for you guys. It seems like for the most part, I cover really three types of cases.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
Why would you ever want to set your employees up to think this is how we're going to do things or this is what could happen to us? It's just concerning on so many levels and so whack. Not to mention, it's just so unprofessional on so many levels to have something like War Dogs be an onboarding video for any company, to have a movie be an onboarding video for new employees. Wild shit.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
So for a long time, I refused to wear any type of push-up bra. They were all uncomfortable to me. I really just preferred a nice sports bra, bralette situation, you know, something that's not going to be digging into me. But then I wanted to get a little bit of lift. So I tried out the Skims Ultimate Push-Up Bra. And let me tell you, this is the best push-up bra.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
I actually have four of them now and I wear them every single day. And then I recently tried their Ultimate Balconette Push-Up Bra, and it really lives up to all the hype. It doesn't add any bulkiness, and it doesn't feel like I'm wearing pillows on my chest. Instead, it just makes them look natural with a really nice lift, which I could use all the lift I can get these days.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
They also wash really well, which is a big thing for me because I've had so many bras ruined in the wash. And every single piece I have from Skims, even their pajamas and their sweats, all have held up really nicely in the wash. So shop the Skims Ultimate Bra Collection and more at Skims.com and Skims stores. After you place your order, be sure to let them know I sent you.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
Select podcast and survey and be sure to select my show in the description menu that follows. And for those who don't know, which was me before learning about this case and watching War Dogs myself, a government contract business is a company that provides goods and services to the government in exchange for payment.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
For a long time, when it came to government contracts for the military, at least, and... Forgive me if I sound dumb here. I don't completely understand this world. But from what I do understand, for the most part, those contracts were offered to huge businesses, huge corporations.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
And at some point, the government decided to kind of level the playing field a little bit by offering some of those contracts to smaller businesses as well. And really anyone, any small business, any civilian can...
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
bid for a government contract for example and forgive me because this is the best example I can come up with and I'm very you know new to this world I have no idea how it really works but let's say the government is putting out a request for 30,000 cases of ammunition. This request gets submitted online and then businesses can submit their bids to try and win the contract.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
And one company might offer to get them the amount at a lesser price, but it's going to take longer to fulfill the contract. And, you know, X, Y, Z, everyone's, you know, offers a little bit different. And then the government can choose which offer they want to go with. But then you have to fall through and fill the request.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
that she did also i wanted to cover this case because this just went to trial in january of 2025 so this is very very recent i know you guys are gonna have a lot to say on this one i have a lot to say on this one and i just already have so many thoughts coming to my head so i want to just jump into it and i want to start out by telling you more about michael cochran
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
And obviously, if you don't fill the request, then you're not getting paid. And this is what Natalie said her new business, Tactical Solutions Group, or TSG, was doing. And just like in War Dogs, a big part of their business was supplying weapons. And they also sold health care equipment as well. other sort of big ticket items like that.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
And I think their website has been taken down now, which you'll understand why later. But at some point, Natalie had wrote that they were a leading supplier of the Department of Defense, the CIA, and Homeland Security. But to get to that point, obviously, they needed startup costs. And who did Natalie turn to for that money? Their own friends, family, and community members.
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
And that's what makes this case so frustrating. Well,
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
many things make this case very frustrating and upsetting but the fact that she went after people that she actually knew and cared about their own family friends and community members is just sick on so many levels because people trusted her they gave them this money for their business to help them get it going and little did they all know this business was a total ponzi scheme and
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
And to very loosely explain what that means, basically money that she was using from new investors was going to pay off money that she owed to old investors. And through her conniving ways, she convinced people who trusted her, who cared about her,
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Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
that they should pour their savings into tsg and she was very strategic about how she did it natalie would tell people that she liked to be the last bidder so that nobody could bid higher than her and because of that she wouldn't give people a lot of time to think about whether or not they wanted to invest and not only that she would also tell people that the contracts were part of classified government programs very top secret so people
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
Couldn't ask her a lot of questions, and obviously that was a strategic move as well. So Chris Davis said that Natalie approached him and Jennifer after church one day, of all places, about fulfilling a contract for dental labs. And in total, they would end up investing $511,000. And then there's this, which really breaks my heart.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
I mean, it breaks my heart for everyone that's involved, but the fact that she would do this to herself.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
in-laws is just mind-blowing but donna invested just over 245 000 and this was all of her and ed's retirement savings and natalie essentially convinced donna to go ahead and make this investment because she told her that her own mother had already made a return of 60 000 so obviously that was appealing to them and they also wanted to support their son's business ventures so they decided to go ahead and do it
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
And whether it was Donna or the Davises or somebody else, Natalie always said that they could expect large returns in a short amount of time. And truth be told, from the way everyone describes it, they all felt like they could really trust her. And they described it as sort of a group mentality.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
You know, that they saw how well their family was doing and they had this idea of, OK, well, this other couple that I know or other family I know is investing and they're smart people. So if they're going to do it, I don't see why we wouldn't do it. And as far as Michael's role in all of this, which I'm sure you guys are wondering about, he eventually started working for TSG full time, too.
True Crime with Kendall Rae
Insulin Poisoning Ponzi Scheme Cover-Up?! The Case of Michael & Natalie Cochran
So Michael Brandon Cochran was born on December 23rd of 1980 in Beckley, West Virginia, and he was actually an only child to his parents, Donna and Michael. But when he was eight, his stepdad, Ed Bolt, came into the picture, and the two of them grew incredibly close. In an interview where she talked about his childhood, Donna said that Michael Brandon was... quite an impressive kid.