Kay Linder
Appearances
The Talent Trade
Recruiter Tales - Kay Linder
And so that journey of really helping them understand at the front end what they're looking for and navigating to make sure they end up with the right person that matches that is very important. I think I've changed my practice area six times. One or two of those were really quickly into my tenure because I came in and two years later there was the dot-com bubble burst and 9-11.
The Talent Trade
Recruiter Tales - Kay Linder
Then there was the economic downturn, the Great Recession. And then in 2019, I moved completely from one field to the nonprofit field. And I did that two months before COVID. So I went in a brand new search, had no contacts, et cetera. And but I tell you, going through that experience is really amazing.
The Talent Trade
Recruiter Tales - Kay Linder
first of all, made me appreciate how wonderful people are, how generous they were with me, with me learning the business as I went along. And those are clients and candidates and everyone that I talked to. And it also helped me appreciate how important they are to us as much as we are to them.
The Talent Trade
Recruiter Tales - Kay Linder
I think sometimes recruiters think that we are God's gift to the world, to the employer, and they're so important to us. And those relationships that were fostered, even if we don't work together for many years, are just irreplaceable. Well, in this market, great candidates out there in the fields that I recruit in are being approached by everyone.
The Talent Trade
Recruiter Tales - Kay Linder
There's such a high demand and the supply of really gifted people is somewhat limited. And so we examine at the very get-go the process, make sure we have everything lined up. We advance block interview times as far in advance as we can. So that we're keeping it on pace and then making sure that the client is being inviting to the candidate.
The Talent Trade
Recruiter Tales - Kay Linder
And so that when candidates are being interviewed, that they really feel the warmth and they get a sense of the true positive culture of the organization that they're working with. And also, there's a lot of sticker shock. Because of the high demand, low supply, salary ranges have gone up quite a bit. A lot of the searches I work on are after somebody's been in place 20 years, 15 years.
The Talent Trade
Recruiter Tales - Kay Linder
in addition to already being a specialist in the niche that I work in, is to help guide them through that process. A lot of times that means doing a stakeholder survey with everyone that's going to be impacted by the hire. And a lot of times clients don't think about that. It can be outside people that will work closely with this new person. It can be staff in another department.
The Talent Trade
Recruiter Tales - Kay Linder
And so that internal person has not gotten as big of a salary increase along the years. as the outside market is. And so when they go to launch a new search to replace them, I have to a lot of times do surveys with them.
The Talent Trade
Recruiter Tales - Kay Linder
And it's not just your standard salary surveys, but because I know my field, I can look at all the professionals I work with and I can give them a pretty candid, clear picture of what it's going to take to get the top tier to be interested in their opportunity at all. fun story. So I was in Nashville and I worked because my background in college was ecology and environmental studies.
The Talent Trade
Recruiter Tales - Kay Linder
I was working for a coalition of nonprofit organizations here in Tennessee that were the state chapters of places like the Sierra Club and the Audubon Society. And in that role, I got to lobby at the state level. I got to run programs and fundraise. And All of those, especially the lobbying, I think really lent itself to becoming a success as a recruiter.
The Talent Trade
Recruiter Tales - Kay Linder
Well, in my experience, a lot of the opportunities that I work on are either newly created for the organization or they've been recently retooled or are the back end of a retirement that person's been in place a long time. And those are delicate to navigate. A big part of the value I think I bring to an organization
The Talent Trade
Recruiter Tales - Kay Linder
With what you do, lobbying, you listen well, you're a strong communicator, you're great at matching situations and people together. All of those things really lend themselves to somebody being successful as a recruiter. And I think that if you are a lobbyist, you have to go in and listen to you. all people with different backgrounds, different biases.
The Talent Trade
Recruiter Tales - Kay Linder
A lot of times they may not like you, especially if you're an environmental recruiter, they may not like you walking in the office. But I'm happy to say that I really turned that around with those individuals. And I think that made me even more emotionally intelligent and adept at figuring people out quickly and best way to approach them and communicate with them. And the rest is history.
The Talent Trade
Recruiter Tales - Kay Linder
It can be a whole host. And so that's a grounding to making sure we're looking for the right person. It also helps those people feel like they're
The Talent Trade
Recruiter Tales - Kay Linder
vetting into the process and they're going to be more receptive to liking the person when they come on board also navigating how to successfully recruit a candidate and that is What questions to ask in an interview not to forget that the candidates interviewing you at the same time? So be pleasant be helpful be very open and engaging.
The Talent Trade
Recruiter Tales - Kay Linder
Sometimes we forget to do that when we're focused on is the other person a good fit. I think also just keeping a very equal process for all candidates so everybody's asked the same questions, everybody's treated the same, making sure that there's a lot of equity involved in the process is extremely important.
The Talent Trade
Recruiter Tales - Kay Linder
And when it comes down to the final decision making, if you're a good recruiter, you always try to drive at least two finalists to the end. And that way, the client has two people they could potentially hire. They like them both. If something happens to one of the candidates and they happen to drop out of the equation, all of a sudden you have another person that you're equally satisfied with.
The Talent Trade
Uncover, Discover, Remember
Because if you start there, you can maintain it and grow it and deepen it. If you don't start there, you can't grow it on the back end.
The Talent Trade
Uncover, Discover, Remember
Boy, I think I see connections where other people don't. I will talk to somebody and then a year later, I'll be talking to someone else. And I remember, I may not remember exactly who I talked to until I look it up, but I'll remember, oh my gosh, this person that I talked to would really be align well with what I'm hearing here. And that can be in so many ways.
The Talent Trade
Uncover, Discover, Remember
That can be in new client generation because I could go back and connect to people. One of the things I love doing is if somebody's new to a particular niche in the nonprofit area, let's say they've never worked at a children's museum before. I can introduce them to a lot of their peers at other institutions because I remember those and I've built those relationships.
The Talent Trade
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So again, they don't feel alone in learning the industry, but they immediately have a ready set group, a peer group to talk to. So I think that instinct of listening and pairing and matching is something that's been very helpful to me. I also feel like I use my head, heart, and gut together in a meaningful way. Head is the analysis of the work.
The Talent Trade
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The heart is, do I have a real passion for the work that they're doing or taking on this search for what it means? And then the gut is the gut check, right? Everything else can be alignment, like with a candidate. They have a passion for my client. They have all the skill sets, but there's something off or not. That's the gut check.
The Talent Trade
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So I don't allow myself to get carried away with candidates because they look so good. I'm always listening to my gut. Because I'm keeping those careful conversations I have with the client top of mind. And I know the client's strengths and weaknesses and what kind of person they need to have and what kind of person they can't have. And that constantly directs my conversations with the client too.
The Talent Trade
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So working with thinking ahead, I've been given the opportunity to transition the work that I do and my emphasis throughout my career. As market trends emerge, as my interests move in new directions, I've been able to follow that dream with confidence. you know, the guidance of our wonderful president, Greg Boucher.
The Talent Trade
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You know, it's a funny question because one of the things I think from the start I did right was fearlessly calling people, not worrying about their title. I remember when I first started with Thinking Ahead, I was at that time not in our nonprofit division and I was calling partners on Wall Street. They were all making over a million dollars. And at that time, I was not, nor am I now.
The Talent Trade
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But just picking up the phone and calling them and just not worrying about what I know or not know and realizing my role was to listen and develop a rapport in a relationship. That's just served me well throughout my practice. That doesn't mean I only gravitate towards the senior level people in the organization.
The Talent Trade
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But frankly, they're the ones that make decisions on who the organization is going to work with, etc. So I think that's a good thing. I think maybe throughout my career, there have been times when one of my Achilles heels is not being willing to give up on something and see it through.
The Talent Trade
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And frankly, there's sometimes that relationships and clients, you know, it's just not meant to be where it outgrows its purpose and recognizing that living with it and being okay with it. I think a lot of times over 26 years, there have been some critical times when I haven't given up quickly enough and gracefully moved on to something else.
The Talent Trade
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There's one point I would like to make because when I'm talking to people considering a career in recruitment, I think if you're good hearted, which most of us are, there's this perception that a lot of the work that we do is finding people jobs and we don't. And the reason I mentioned that is is that of all the roles that we play, the one that I try not to play is serving as a therapist, right?
The Talent Trade
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Because a therapist is really working with somebody that's got a lot of emotional and things that they can do on their own or with loved ones to do that.
The Talent Trade
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So if you have somebody who's very traumatized and they're clinging to you because they think you're going to find them a job, you're not doing them any help or service by taking a lot of their time and a lot of your time to take care of them because you won't be able to in the long run. I don't want to leave on a negative note, but I think that's really important.
The Talent Trade
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And as I mentioned earlier, we have such a high level of wonderful people at our organization, from smarts to senses of humor to high, high, high ethics. Again, also lots of passion for the work we do. And one of the things that I think sets us apart is none of us are transactional people. In our approaches, we seek long-term relationships internally and externally.
The Talent Trade
Uncover, Discover, Remember
And I've had those conversations with people over the years where I've told them, I can't help you, but here's what you can do. And it's amazing. A lot of those people have come back to me and thanked me for being candid and giving them some other paths to explore and how that's really helped them out.
The Talent Trade
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And I think our, I think, 35 years now of Thinking Ahead's history is a true testimony to that. So in the recruitment profession, as I mentioned, you know, I'm curious about everything. And I also love to play different roles. And that can be from being the heavy listener, really figuring out what makes people tick,
The Talent Trade
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doing strategic planning on how to approach a search, really listening carefully to our clients as they're trying to figure out exactly how they need our help or what help they need. All of that blends well with my interest in not having the same humdrum role.
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If I were somebody that was selling widgets, or quite frankly, if I was just placing identical people all the time in the same country or city, it would be difficult for me to still be in this profession. But I get to work with people from all over the country. I work with a lot of different levels of positions from kind of mid-level profession to the C-suite.
The Talent Trade
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And each and every one of them are critical to the success of the organizations they work with.
The Talent Trade
Uncover, Discover, Remember
So I like to build relationships with individuals oftentimes before we work together. That starts out at meeting each other at the cross section of our professions. We both are dedicated to the nonprofit space. A lot of people I work with are interested in fundraising, and that's the work that I do. So we have a lot in common.
The Talent Trade
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So we're building those bridges of who we are before we start talking about how we can support that person. When I am in conversations with potential clients, it usually bubbles up through our conversations that they are either facing challenges or anticipating growth in their organizations and through careful dialogue.
The Talent Trade
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I can figure out if the work that I do and the expertise our organization provides as a whole is a good fit for them. So lots of questions, lots of leaning in and asking deeper, more thoughtful questions. I'll give you an example. I may talk to somebody and right at that point, they may not think that they have an active need.
The Talent Trade
Uncover, Discover, Remember
But as we look at their strategy, moving their organization forward and growth into the new year, they start thinking about who they need to have in their organization to accomplish those goals. We also talk about unexpected departures and how to anticipate that. So again, it's building a rapport and understanding and they see from our conversation that I am
The Talent Trade
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Not all about a quick placement or what do you got, what do you got for me to work on? It's all about respecting one another. And if and when they need my help, they recognize the conversations, both the art and the skills that I can help them with.
The Talent Trade
Uncover, Discover, Remember
Absolutely. And, you know, from the candidate perspective, we typically are calling candidates that don't even perceive themselves as candidates. These are professionals that have their heads down, doing amazing work, generally happy with their situation and not really worried. typically having a lot of time to ponder what's next for them.
The Talent Trade
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And so again, what I work to help them explore is the what ifs. Does it make sense for their longer term planning to be at their current organization? Or what do they need to do to expand their skills?
The Talent Trade
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So I've actually been with the organization 26 plus years, which is shocking to some, but not to me because Thinking Ahead is such a special place to work. The collegiality, the collaboration, the ability to have a lot of autonomy in your own business, and just to work with the best and brightest people that are part of our industry is just a very compelling reason for me staying.
The Talent Trade
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So if their goal is to move into a higher role within the institution, what can they start doing right now without changing jobs necessarily or changing the organizations they're with to further that anticipation? So they look at me as well they should as an ally and somebody that really appreciates the fact that they are dedicating themselves to very worthwhile missions that really
The Talent Trade
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you know, in the background of everything important in our country, they're doing work at usually at not the top wages that they could get in the for-profit arena. And as a result, I do everything I can to not only help them fulfill their own passion, but keep them in the business. Sounds like it's almost the role of a professional coach. Absolutely.
The Talent Trade
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Of all the different roles that we play in our work, the one that I cherish the most is being a coach. And I think a principle that you really need to remember is as a coach, you're unlocking a person's potential to maximize their performance. You're helping them to learn rather than teaching them. They are the experts and they have the answers.
The Talent Trade
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We're just helping them understand what those are and bringing out the best. You know, in order to do that, we have to create that safe environment where they can share information. whatever they're thinking without fear of judgment.
The Talent Trade
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I love the fact that you have to listen attentively and empathetically and really lean in and listen, listen, listen, and hear, hear, hear, and digest, digest, digest, and then help them with figuring out a very clear objective and goals, helping them by providing some feedback of our knowledge in the industry, and again, letting them
The Talent Trade
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create a path where they can fail forward sometimes, where they're not afraid to try new things in order to advance what will really make them great and what will bring them, you know, the largest satisfaction in their work. And of course, asking questions. So being a coach is not teaching. It's not necessarily mentoring.
The Talent Trade
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It's helping the person learn more about themselves and their own desires and their own skills and their own talents and talents yet to be discovered, uncovered or learned that will set them on the course.
The Talent Trade
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First of all, I do my best to uncover people that either have realized talent or potential talent. And those are the people on the candidate side that I'm building deep relationships with. And I'm giving of myself in a way that will make sense and pay major rewards in the long term.
The Talent Trade
Uncover, Discover, Remember
And that can be either as they themselves becoming a candidate, if and when the timing is right, or for them personally, uncovering and sharing their professional network of the A players that they know who won't normally take a call from a recruiter, but will if this person opens the door and makes that introduction.
The Talent Trade
Uncover, Discover, Remember
And then interestingly, sometimes if you perceive somebody as a candidate, they instead become a client. And because of the approach that you used with them, the thoughtfulness and the leaning in and being helpful, they remember that. And when they have a chance to hire someone, then I'm the person that they contact.
The Talent Trade
Uncover, Discover, Remember
And so even though it is truly empathetic and learning, I'm taking copious notes at the same time. I'm uncovering, discovering, and remembering what makes that person tick. And so the next time we have a conversation about, We can take that conversation further and further.
The Talent Trade
Uncover, Discover, Remember
And because of that, because I surround myself with a feeling of plenitude and generosity, again, with the A players, then those things circle around and provide me with, you know, great searches, great candidates, great inside tracks of what's happening at organizations before sometimes even the leadership may know what's happening. And I think that that's key to the success.
The Talent Trade
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I'm a partner in our nonprofit practice, and so I work nationally and sometimes internationally as well. with nonprofit organizations. And most of the work I do is with environmental climate and also with zoos, aquariums, and science museums. So a lot of ground to cover, but lots of fun.
The Talent Trade
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It's, you know, kind of, it sounds corny, but it's if you build it, they will come. If you build that sincere student of the business, but generous listener and provider of information and thoughtful, caring and sharing. then people remember that and they want to work with you.
The Talent Trade
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Absolutely. I have a high benchmark of who I introduce to my clients. I not only am looking at providing quality candidates that have the skill sets, but I really want to understand what motivates them in general, what excites them truly about making a change.
The Talent Trade
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And being able to share that carefully with a lot of consideration with my client organization, because it's one thing to find somebody that has all the skills and experience on paper, but it takes a different approach.
The Talent Trade
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to get that gut check of are they going to be a great fit for the organization, not only in the early stages, but are they going to evolve and stay so they have successful tenures and potential promotions? Again, as I mentioned, sometimes I'm placing people at the senior executive level, but a lot of times I'm placing those mid-level people.
The Talent Trade
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managers and directors who could be one day the CEO of the organization themselves. And so being able to communicate to my clients really what the hopes and the dreams are of the candidate and how they react, what's helped them be successful up to now, what are the scenarios and culture of the organizations that they've worked at before where they have prospered the most.
The Talent Trade
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allows my client to, A, decide if their organization is a good fit, but also if they do bring the candidate in, how to keep them kind of cloaked in this supportive culture where they will continue to thrive. I know that sounds a little touchy-feely, but it's really at the base level what makes searches work. what makes candidates work out long term.
The Talent Trade
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And that's key to the work that we do at Thinking Ahead. I have a lot of clients that use me repeatedly for searches. And in fact, sometimes for searches where I may have not done a lot of recruiting before, but because they trust our approach, they become very confident that not only will we find the skills, we'll find the person that we know will fit in their organization.
The Talent Trade
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Sure. So if we're talking about running a search, first of all, with the client, before we take on a search, we do a pretty short but intensive discovery process with the client where we have an opportunity to have conversations and or survey all the important people that will lend to the success of that person being hired, but also the Who will be impacted by whether the hire is correct or not.
The Talent Trade
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And that in itself allows us not only to know the skill sets, but also understand what personalities are going to work. Also understand what the challenges are within the organization. and what success will look like after the first year.
The Talent Trade
Uncover, Discover, Remember
And so I'm beginning to build my own image of not only what this person will need to be like, but I can share with the candidates the realness of the opportunity.
The Talent Trade
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and really hope that when I'm meeting with them that I can evoke a whole lot more information for them where they can really truly begin to picture what the role is like and what life there will be like so that they can decide if they want to step forward or not. On the candidate side of the equation,
The Talent Trade
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when i'm first introduced to a candidate or if i'm going back to somebody i've worked with before instead of immediately talking to them about the position etc i want to revisit what makes sense for them at their stage and career what are the ideas of where they would like to go the kind of opportunities that would really reverberate with them and what would make it worthwhile to suffer the pain of change
The Talent Trade
Uncover, Discover, Remember
And we get into that. I really take copious notes on that. And quite honestly, if my client is not going to align well with what is important to them, I'll let them know that and the why, and then ask for referrals. But the reason I emphasize those first initial interactions is how important that is to set the stage of confidence, trust, transparency, and collaboration.
The Talent Trade
Uncover, Discover, Remember
Great question. So I am self-admittedly a very ADD personality. I'm one of those people that in college could have had like 15 majors. I was lucky to have one just to settle in and figure out what I wanted to do because I was always curious and everything seemed interesting to me. And that's been a lifelong part of my personality.