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Jonathan Beale

Appearances

Global News Podcast

US judge temporarily blocks Trump's freeze on federal funding

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I mean, since the beginning of the implementation of the ceasefire, UNICEF managed to get 350 trucks entering inside the north and the south of the Gaza Strip. It's way more than what we have witnessed in the past weeks and months of the war. And this is really absolutely crucial because the needs are immense. Children are still suffering from malnutrition. There is not enough water.

Global News Podcast

US judge temporarily blocks Trump's freeze on federal funding

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And the level of destruction, especially in the north, is so huge that, yes, it is absolutely critical that all of the hostages are released. And it's critical that humanitarian aid can continue to enter at scale immediately.

Global News Podcast

US judge temporarily blocks Trump's freeze on federal funding

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Last time I went to the north of the Gaza Strip a few months ago, I really witnessed with my own eyes the level of destruction and you have entire neighbourhoods which have completely been flattened. And yesterday when I was among those families who were walking back to their homes in the north of the Gaza Strip, I could

Global News Podcast

US judge temporarily blocks Trump's freeze on federal funding

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really wonder what are they going to find because many of them have probably lost their houses. And when I was asking them that, they were saying that they prefer to have a tent built on the rubble of their houses instead of having that tent elsewhere. So the level of destruction and the lack of services are really a challenge.

Global News Podcast

US judge temporarily blocks Trump's freeze on federal funding

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What is really key is that we are ramping up our support to the north of the Gaza Strip. We are bringing in tarpaulins. We're bringing in warm clothes. We are organising water tracking to distribute water.

Global News Podcast

US judge temporarily blocks Trump's freeze on federal funding

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This is first and foremost, I would say, a concern for the children. And yesterday when we were on the road among the people who were walking up north, we were distributing, for example, leaflets to raise the awareness of the parents and the children on the dangers of unexploded ordnance and remnants of war.

Global News Podcast

US judge temporarily blocks Trump's freeze on federal funding

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We know that between 5 and 10 percent of the ammunitions which have been dropped on the Gaza Strip have not exploded. And we know the injuries, the terrible injuries that this can provoke to children. So this is really the first preoccupation. And then in addition, for our trucks and for our missions to go in the different parts of the Gaza Strip, this is also a concern.

Global News Podcast

US judge temporarily blocks Trump's freeze on federal funding

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A second concern is the fact that The roads are heavily damaged. That is very often limiting our capacity to move from one area to the other. The infrastructure has been damaged so much in the Gaza Strip that, for example, it's not necessarily easy to find a warehouse to store all the supplies,

Global News Podcast

Pakistan militants attack train in Balochistan

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It was a campaign that Rodrigo Duterte ran on in the election campaign in 2016, claiming that the country was ridden with drugs and it needed drastic action. Now, he had a reputation then of being a bit of a tough guy. He'd cleaned up, in his own words, the southern city of Davao that had been crime-ridden through some pretty... rough methods, including the use of death squads.

Global News Podcast

Pakistan militants attack train in Balochistan

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And he applied that nationwide. People weren't sure he would do it. He threatened to fill Manila Bay with the bodies of those he would kill. He talked all the time about killing people. Once he took office, he authorized the police to go after the drug dealers and addicts very hard indeed. And that involved basically going around to arrest people, but almost invariably shooting them.

Global News Podcast

Pakistan militants attack train in Balochistan

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Often it appeared to be in complete cold blood. And then thousands of people were killed, really, in the space of just a few months after he came to office. And that campaign continued for about three years. The death toll in total is disputed, but it's something between 6,000 and 20,000 people. And he never apologized for it. He always said to the police, go for it, do more of it.

Global News Podcast

Pakistan militants attack train in Balochistan

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The ICC then took up the case. And although he pulled the Philippines out of the International Criminal Court's jurisdiction in 2019... The ICC prosecutors have said, well, yes, but we can still investigate those alleged crimes committed while the Philippines was still a member. And it's on that basis that they've issued a warrant.

Global News Podcast

Pakistan militants attack train in Balochistan

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And somewhat surprisingly, because we weren't expecting this, the Philippines government has moved very, very quickly to execute it.

Global News Podcast

Pakistan militants attack train in Balochistan

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Well, it certainly explains why it's happened. I mean, I don't think anyone expected it. When President Tuterte's single, it was Max from the Philippines, one term, six-year term came to an end. He was very popular. He had already formed an alliance with the powerful Marcos clan. The clan descended from former dictator Ferdinand Marcos.

Global News Podcast

Pakistan militants attack train in Balochistan

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and the Marcoses and Dutertes collaborated so that Marcos Junior, and now President Bom Bom Marcos, won the presidency, and Mr Duterte's daughter, Sarah, who also had succeeded him as mayor in Davao, then became vice-president. But they have fallen out very badly. It's now a bitter feud between them.

Global News Podcast

Pakistan militants attack train in Balochistan

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And whereas in the early days of his administration, President Marcos said he would not cooperate with the ICC, he is very clearly cooperating a lot.

Global News Podcast

Donald Trump wants to abolish the US emergency response agency

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It is very significant to the LGBTQ community here. I mean, everybody who's come to Thailand knows that LGBTQ people tend to be quite visible. You see a lot of trans people. It has a reputation as being a country that's very tolerant, an easy place to be open. But they haven't had legal rights, and that's a big deal.

Global News Podcast

Donald Trump wants to abolish the US emergency response agency

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Today, for the first time, I think for many of them, there's this acknowledgement that they are the same as everyone else. It's not complete yet. There's still a few areas that still need to be improved. I've actually got a couple with me now. Gay and Ploy, they've been together for 17 years. Congratulations to both of you. First of all, how do you feel today?

Global News Podcast

Donald Trump wants to abolish the US emergency response agency

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You could be open about being same-sex LGBTQ before, but actually legal marriage, why is that such a big step for you?

Global News Podcast

Donald Trump wants to abolish the US emergency response agency

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You can make big decisions for her.

Global News Podcast

Donald Trump wants to abolish the US emergency response agency

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So you can have a home together.

Global News Podcast

Donald Trump wants to abolish the US emergency response agency

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What about your families? What do they think about this?

Global News Podcast

Donald Trump wants to abolish the US emergency response agency

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who have come down here today. You can hear the music behind me. It's been a very celebratory atmosphere. But it has been a long, hard campaign. And although this is a very lighthearted affair, for the campaigners, 10 years ago, they were not at all sure that they could get this law through. And there was a lot of resistance. Public attitudes have really shifted in Thailand.

Global News Podcast

Donald Trump wants to abolish the US emergency response agency

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For all of its famous openness, there was a lot of resistance to actually changing the law. and today there are no gender-specific terms relating to marriage, and that makes such a big difference to everybody here. The rest of the region, of course, very different.

Global News Podcast

Donald Trump wants to abolish the US emergency response agency

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In neighbouring countries, a combination of either religion or tradition, or just the lack of political freedom, all of those make it much more difficult. So Thailand is still very much an outlier in Southeast Asia.

Global News Podcast

Israel attacks Gaza in ground offensive

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He was a one-off. He was a unique character, as Damon Hill was saying there. People say that some characters in life you meet, their glass is half full. Eddie's was always overflowing. He brought such a unique charisma, a unique personality, humanity, resilience, but also he knew how to do a deal, from selling cars in Dublin...

Global News Podcast

Israel attacks Gaza in ground offensive

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And here was a man who started as a banker, then wanted to go racing, selling cars and so on. He went from being a wannabe Formula One star in a Silverstone lock-up garage to winning the Belgian Grand Prix at the iconic Spa Circuit with Damon Hill, the 1996 world champion, leading home Ralf Schumacher, his Jordan teammate, and an extraordinary 1-2.

Global News Podcast

Israel attacks Gaza in ground offensive

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He always believed the impossible was possible, and usually he did that.

Global News Podcast

Israel attacks Gaza in ground offensive

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He took on the big guys. He beat Ferrari. He beat McLaren. He beat Williams. He took all comers. And actually, were it not for their star driver in 1999, Heinz Harald Frentzen, pressing the wrong buttons, which killed his engine, he could well have gone on to have the world champion driver in that year. And that would have taken his team down.

Global News Podcast

Israel attacks Gaza in ground offensive

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which was a very small beer team from Formula 3 coming up through the junior formulas, getting into Formula 1, designing what was, in his first season in 1991, regarded as one of the most beautiful cars ever. If he'd won the World Championship with Heinz-Harold Frensen in 1999, that could have taken him to another level. As it was, Frensen pressed the wrong buttons.

Global News Podcast

Israel attacks Gaza in ground offensive

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They didn't finish just two points behind the other two, Hacken and Eddie Irvine, former Eddie Jordan driver, by the way, in that championship, and Jordan sort of tailed off. But he just brought this...

Global News Podcast

Israel attacks Gaza in ground offensive

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zing to everything he did i remember going to various uh sponsorship dinners and in monaco yacht club and believe you me there aren't many more swish venues than that and he absolutely launched into the sponsorship executives who were sponsoring his team only eddie jordan could get away with some of the expertise he came out with and still get their money and what was he like behind the scenes because you were the f1 correspondent when he was at his peak

Global News Podcast

Israel attacks Gaza in ground offensive

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Well, I'll tell you a personal story. My last race for Five Live was in 2004. We flew home on a private jet with one of his former designers to Oxford. And my taxi was late. And now many people would have said, right, Jonathan, you just sit here. I'm going to do stuff. He stayed with me and talked for two hours about life, about Formula One, about family, about everything.

Global News Podcast

Israel attacks Gaza in ground offensive

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And he was the most human of Formula One team owners in an environment rightly known as the Piranha Club, a one-off, a unique character.

Global News Podcast

Hamas releases the bodies of four Israelis

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The first 100 went off this morning in two chartered Chinese airliners. So they're all Chinese and the Thais have made a somewhat unusual decision to let the Chinese repatriate them straight from Thailand. Some Thai politicians have criticized this, saying, you know, we need to assess what they got through Thailand illegally to get to these places. Why aren't we questioning them?

Global News Podcast

Hamas releases the bodies of four Israelis

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So it's 50 people per airliner, 100 policemen. So two police, Chinese police officers for each Chinese person. That gives you a sense about how China views these people. Now, I mean, despite what human rights activists say, there are some appalling abuses that go on. Quite a lot of people who go to these scam centers do go voluntarily and work there voluntarily.

Global News Podcast

Hamas releases the bodies of four Israelis

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And China is saying they will do an assessment when they get them back to China and work out who was trafficked, who's a victim and who went voluntarily. If they did, they will be prosecuted in China. Von dem, was wir wissen, ist, dass die große Mehrheit in China verhaftet wird. Sie werden nicht als Opfer behandelt. Es gibt noch zwei Flugzeuge. Ich denke, drei sind jetzt weg.

Global News Podcast

Hamas releases the bodies of four Israelis

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Und der letzte ist bereit zu gehen. Das sind 200 heute. Wir erwarten ein Total von mindestens 600 in den nächsten drei Tagen. Das sind alle Leute, die übernommen wurden. And Jonathan, why is it that Southeast Asia in general has become such a focus for these scam centers? I mean, I know there are large numbers of them in Cambodia as well. Ja, genau. We constantly monitor.

Global News Podcast

Hamas releases the bodies of four Israelis

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They may not be able to function at all. Their bank accounts can be shut down. It's much easier for them to operate in this region. Obviously, when you get to Myanmar, we're talking about operating in contested war zones, in areas where there's no economy to speak of. They found that's the easiest place of all.

Global News Podcast

Hamas releases the bodies of four Israelis

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All they need to do is do a deal with whoever the local warlord is, or sometimes in the past it was the Myanmar military when they controlled these areas, and they're allowed to do pretty much whatever they like. That is changing. China is determined to try and impose some kind of order and shut this down.

Global News Podcast

Hamas releases the bodies of four Israelis

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I'm not convinced they'll be able to stamp it out completely, such as the state of lawlessness here.

Global News Podcast

Concern in Europe after Trump and Putin agree to start Ukraine talks

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I think really what's changed is that NATO here had been presenting a united front, that it supported Ukraine, it was providing military support in concert with the former US administration, and it was going to let Ukraine decide how this war would end, essentially. That if there were going to be talks... that Ukraine had to be involved in those discussions and those decisions.

Global News Podcast

Concern in Europe after Trump and Putin agree to start Ukraine talks

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And what we're getting now with the new administration is that the US, the White House, Donald Trump is in the driving seat. He's calling the shots, not NATO as a whole, so that unity has been frayed somewhat. And we know that while the U.S.

Global News Podcast

Concern in Europe after Trump and Putin agree to start Ukraine talks

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administration has set preconditions on Ukraine, that it can't, for example, join NATO, they don't believe, that they should not expect a return of all the territory they've lost to Russia, that there will not be U.S. boots on the ground if there is some kind of ceasefire in which it needs to be policed. That will not involve the U.S., no security guarantees required. on that front.

Global News Podcast

Concern in Europe after Trump and Putin agree to start Ukraine talks

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We haven't heard any same preconditions given to Moscow. And, you know, what's happened here over the last few years, as far as NATO is concerned, is most NATO countries have isolated President Putin and Donald Trump has, in effect, rehabilitated, to some extent, President Putin by this phone call and by this meeting. And the question still is,

Global News Podcast

Concern in Europe after Trump and Putin agree to start Ukraine talks

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The insistence here from NATO headquarters is that it must involve Ukraine. But at the moment, both NATO and Ukraine are on the sidelines.

Global News Podcast

Concern in Europe after Trump and Putin agree to start Ukraine talks

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You know, Mark Rutter has a difficult job trying to hold this 32-member alliance together. And he knows that to build bridges with the Trump administration, he is going to have to persuade allies to increase defence spending, particularly European allies. Now, they have actually increased defence spending overall with more countries, the majority now spending at least 2%.

Global News Podcast

Concern in Europe after Trump and Putin agree to start Ukraine talks

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But Donald Trump wants them to spend 5%. That's going to be a much harder task. But he He needs to build bridges and he sees that as a way of doing it. But to expect countries to come up with 5% I think is unrealistic. That is not going to happen. But he is trying to push them further in how much they spend on defence and also how much support they give to Ukraine.

Global News Podcast

Concern in Europe after Trump and Putin agree to start Ukraine talks

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But they are not at the moment, NATO, in the driving seat.

Global News Podcast

Trump says he expects to meet Putin in Saudi Arabia

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The direction of travel was known as far as the new Trump administration on Ukraine, that he said he wanted to end the war, that he wanted a negotiated settlement with Russia, he wanted the killing to be stopped. I think everybody knew also that even the last Biden administration was not enthusiastic about NATO membership. But I think it's all together.

Global News Podcast

Trump says he expects to meet Putin in Saudi Arabia

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It's the most explicit statement by the US Defence Secretary, Peter Hegseth, on US policy towards Ukraine under this new administration. And that is not just explicitly stating no NATO membership, but also that Ukraine will not regain all the territory it has lost to Russia. And also saying that America is a limit to how much

Global News Podcast

Trump says he expects to meet Putin in Saudi Arabia

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America is prepared to do as far as not just military support, but security guarantees if there is some kind of negotiated settlement, some kind of ceasefire, making clear that there would be no US boots on the ground. And if you look at all this in totality, it flies in the face of what NATO has said before, not least because here we have President Trump

Global News Podcast

Trump says he expects to meet Putin in Saudi Arabia

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talking directly to President Putin without Ukraine involved. The mantra here has been no decisions about Ukraine's future without Ukraine. Well, that appears to at the moment not be the case. And also, it is not what they have been saying publicly here, even if there's scepticism about Ukraine joining NATO. The message was that Ukraine was on a path to NATO membership.

Global News Podcast

Trump says he expects to meet Putin in Saudi Arabia

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So I think all in all, you look at this, not completely unexpected, but clearly disappointing to most of the officials here.

Global News Podcast

Trump says he expects to meet Putin in Saudi Arabia

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The UK defence secretary who chaired the Ukraine contact group and said that Europe is stepping up, Europe needs to step up. That last year, for example, Europe provided 50%, more than 50%, 58% of the military aid to Ukraine. That said, Europe cannot fill the void left by America in terms of military support for Ukraine.

Global News Podcast

Trump says he expects to meet Putin in Saudi Arabia

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It does need to increase its defence spending, and there are discussions about that at the moment. And the fact is that European armies... have been reduced greatly because of the peace dividend at the end of the Cold War. Numbers are down.

Global News Podcast

Trump says he expects to meet Putin in Saudi Arabia

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And to get that figure of what people are talking about, you'd need on the ground a number of troops from other countries, 100,000 to make sure that that was some kind of meaningful peacekeeping force. Europe would struggle to do that on its own. And that is why President Zelensky has been clear that it needs America.

Global News Podcast

Trump says he expects to meet Putin in Saudi Arabia

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But today he's got a clear message from the US that they are not going to put their own boots on the ground.

Global News Podcast

UN Secretary-General warns US against 'ethnic cleansing' in Gaza

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China's complaint about Donald Trump's latest tariffs has been filed unusually quickly. Possibly even more surprising is the blunt language in it, describing US claims about illegal drugs as unfounded and false allegations. The world's two biggest economies now have 60 days to resolve their dispute through consultations at the World Trade Organization.

Global News Podcast

UN Secretary-General warns US against 'ethnic cleansing' in Gaza

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It's unlikely either that or the next stages of the process will be successful. The ultimate body of the Geneva-based arbiter for solving disputes has been unable to function since Donald Trump blocked the appointment of new judges in his first term as president.

Global News Podcast

The Global Story: Does Trump’s return threaten the future of Nato?

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So he's essentially giving credit where you could debate credit is not due. I think it is important, though, that what Mark Rutter is doing is also what, to some extent, President Zelensky is doing.

Global News Podcast

The Global Story: Does Trump’s return threaten the future of Nato?

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Ukraine here knows that things could change dramatically under a Donald Trump presidency, that they could have some of their military aid withdrawn, if not all of it, that there could be peace negotiations or attempts at peace negotiations. And they want to see Donald Trump as a winner, too. And part of their calculus is the same as Mark Ritter's calculus. that you appeal to Donald Trump's ego.

Global News Podcast

The Global Story: Does Trump’s return threaten the future of Nato?

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You tell him that it is his strength that can resolve this crisis and it is making Ukraine strong and keeping it strong that will help resolve this crisis. You want to tell him that he is in a position of power where he can decide the future. And if he wants to win, really win, then that means taking on Vladimir Putin and not allowing him to win this war.

Global News Podcast

The Global Story: Does Trump’s return threaten the future of Nato?

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Well, he's not alone in talking about the dangers of this conflict widening to other European countries. We've heard similar from Boris Pistorius, the German defence minister.

Global News Podcast

The Global Story: Does Trump’s return threaten the future of Nato?

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We've heard senior British military commanders, senior NATO commanders as well, warning that Russia does not see the end of its goals in defeating Ukraine, which it clearly wants to do and which is swallowing up all its resources permanently. and finances and time at the moment. But that will not be the end of it, is the warning.

Global News Podcast

The Global Story: Does Trump’s return threaten the future of Nato?

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So I don't think you should see what Mark Rutter is saying in isolation, because many other people are saying it. And I think that they're saying it, and it's particularly senior military officers saying it, because they know that most European countries are ill-prepared for a conflict, that they have through the peace dividend after the end of the Cold War, reduced the size of their militaries.

Global News Podcast

The Global Story: Does Trump’s return threaten the future of Nato?

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They have reduced the output of their weapons factories. So I don't think we should think of what Margaret is saying is scaremongering, because he's not alone in saying this. But as you say, there is a disconnect, which he wants to highlight between what European populations feel and what governments are doing.

Global News Podcast

The Global Story: Does Trump’s return threaten the future of Nato?

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You have to look at Donald Trump's rhetoric, then compare it with the reality. And I think if we look at last time, there was rhetoric about pulling out of NATO from Donald Trump, but it didn't happen. And I think Europeans hope that will be the case in a second Donald Trump term. I think it's important to say that even if Donald Trump did want

Global News Podcast

The Global Story: Does Trump’s return threaten the future of Nato?

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for america to leave nato if he did follow through on some of the things he said it would be very difficult for him to do it for the simple reason that last year congress passed legislation which essentially says no president can suspend terminate denounce or withdraw from nato without either an act of congress or the approval of two-thirds of the u.s senate i mean interestingly that's

Global News Podcast

The Global Story: Does Trump’s return threaten the future of Nato?

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legislation was passed with the backing of Senator Marco Rubio, who is, of course, Donald Trump's choice as the next Secretary of State.

Global News Podcast

The Global Story: Does Trump’s return threaten the future of Nato?

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Europe couldn't go it alone in terms of defence, not least because it doesn't have the nuclear umbrella. Only the UK would be providing a nuclear umbrella for NATO if the US pulled out. I think that's unlikely, as you say. It couldn't do it alone in terms of providing Ukraine with the weapons they need.

Global News Podcast

The Global Story: Does Trump’s return threaten the future of Nato?

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The US is still by far the largest provider of ammunition and weapons to Ukraine and the weapons they need and even the ones that Europe provides originate from the US. So they have to get US supplies approval. And Europe doesn't have its own capabilities that the US has. For example, in space, it doesn't have air defences, missile defences like the US has.

Global News Podcast

The Global Story: Does Trump’s return threaten the future of Nato?

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It does not have the size of military that the US has. A lot of European countries, as I mentioned, have cut the size of their military because they are expensive. They're now looking at increasing numbers, talking about conscription, but they cannot fill the numbers, the money, the finance, the technical know-how, and the nuclear umbrella that the US provides.

Global News Podcast

The Global Story: Does Trump’s return threaten the future of Nato?

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So Europe can talk about improving its situation, addressing some of those capability gaps, but it'll take them a long time to do that. It doesn't happen overnight.

Global News Podcast

The Global Story: Does Trump’s return threaten the future of Nato?

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Thank you, Katya. Good speaking to you.

Global News Podcast

The Global Story: Does Trump’s return threaten the future of Nato?

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Hi, Katia, from a cold, a very cold Dnipro here in eastern Ukraine.

Global News Podcast

The Global Story: Does Trump’s return threaten the future of Nato?

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Well, Ukraine is watching closely. It's watching closely because all its weapons, pretty much all the ammunition it's getting at the moment is coming from NATO members in Europe and also the US, obviously, which is its biggest supplier. It's also watching closely because Ukraine has made very clear it wants to be a member of NATO. It wants the security guarantees that NATO membership gives.

Global News Podcast

The Global Story: Does Trump’s return threaten the future of Nato?

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So it's watching what Mark Ritter, NATO Secretary General, is saying very closely. And it's still hoping that somehow it will be eventually a member of NATO.

Global News Podcast

The Global Story: Does Trump’s return threaten the future of Nato?

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Born after the Second World War. It is always important to say that NATO is a defensive alliance. That's what it says it is. But it was created because of the concerns of the expanding Soviet empire. It is there to deter any aggressor. And of course, key to the whole NATO membership is Article 5, which essentially says that

Global News Podcast

The Global Story: Does Trump’s return threaten the future of Nato?

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an attack on one ally or an attack on one member is interpreted as an attack on all. So it gives those countries that are members of the alliance some security guarantees, the kind of security guarantees, obviously, that Ukraine would like as well.

Global News Podcast

The Global Story: Does Trump’s return threaten the future of Nato?

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The US is one of the largest contributors, about 15% of the NATO budget, but it is the military clout of America that counts for NATO in the sense that the US is the largest military in the world. It is the country that spends most on defence. And it provides, most importantly for NATO, the security of that nuclear umbrella. Members of NATO rely mainly on the US.

Global News Podcast

The Global Story: Does Trump’s return threaten the future of Nato?

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Of course, the UK has nuclear weapons too. France does, but very much sees theirs as independent to the NATO alliance. But it relies on America for that security guarantee. So without America, NATO would be a shadow of what it is at the moment. At any one given time, there are between 50,000 to 100,000 U.S. military personnel stationed in Europe.

Global News Podcast

The Global Story: Does Trump’s return threaten the future of Nato?

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Of course, aircraft carriers come from time to time. But then on top of that, there is a commitment for 800,000 U.S. military personnel to come to NATO's defense if required.

Global News Podcast

The Global Story: Does Trump’s return threaten the future of Nato?

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No. So NATO has tried to coordinate and is coordinating some of that military support. But NATO itself as an organization does not have arms factories, does not produce weapons. And it is reliant on member states to actually contribute to Ukraine directly. And it's always worth remembering that not every NATO member is providing weapons.

Global News Podcast

The Global Story: Does Trump’s return threaten the future of Nato?

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So, for example, Hungary, which has always been an awkward member, is against supplying weapons to Ukraine. But Ukraine depends wholly on NATO allies to keep that ammunition flowing, to keep those weapons flowing.

Global News Podcast

The Global Story: Does Trump’s return threaten the future of Nato?

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There may be some sympathy with President Putin's argument about NATO expanding on his border. The first George Bush presidency, there's a suggestion Russia received private assurances that NATO wouldn't expand eastwards to include countries like the Baltic states. That is something that's disputed.

Global News Podcast

The Global Story: Does Trump’s return threaten the future of Nato?

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But it is important for NATO to always stress that it is a defensive alliance and it is responding to what he is doing in Ukraine. You know, there were countries outside the NATO alliance, and I'm talking about Sweden and Finland, who have now joined specifically because They feel that Russia's war in Ukraine puts them under threat. So that is their argument.

Global News Podcast

The Global Story: Does Trump’s return threaten the future of Nato?

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And they do not buy this argument that President Putin should be dictating the terms as to which countries can join. That is something they say, that individual countries should be allowed, sovereign nations be allowed to decide for themselves.

Global News Podcast

The Global Story: Does Trump’s return threaten the future of Nato?

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There's certain questions as to why NATO hasn't done more here in Ukraine. For example, one of the early cries was NATO close the skies. Do not let Russia fire missiles or operate jets over Ukrainian airspace. Why doesn't NATO just come in and provide air cover for Ukraine? That has not happened and that will not happen. You've got to remember that NATO is an alliance that works on consensus.

Global News Podcast

The Global Story: Does Trump’s return threaten the future of Nato?

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So if one country objects to something, then they can't do it. And that is, in a sense, NATO's weakness, that it is reliant on all members agreeing to do something to help another nation. Any attempts at Ukrainian membership... could be vetoed by one country or a few countries.

Global News Podcast

The Global Story: Does Trump’s return threaten the future of Nato?

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And that is why I think it's highly unlikely that NATO will accept Ukraine as a member of the alliance anytime soon, because there are, you know, significant countries, including the US under Donald Trump, which would not countenance the idea of Ukraine joining NATO.

Global News Podcast

The Global Story: Does Trump’s return threaten the future of Nato?

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So I think there are certain things that alarm European countries from Donald Trump that he said on the campaign trail, as you said, that if you don't pay your way, you don't get protection. Russia can do what the hell it likes to those countries that don't pay their way. There's a misunderstanding as far as Donald Trump is concerned about what NATO is.

Global News Podcast

The Global Story: Does Trump’s return threaten the future of Nato?

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He thinks it's like a club and you pay a membership fee. NATO is not that. It sets goals as to how much they should spend on defence, but there is no punishment for If a country doesn't spend that on defence, and as we know, there are countries in the NATO alliance who do not spend 2%, the goal it set out in 2014, on their military.

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The Global Story: Does Trump’s return threaten the future of Nato?

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I think it's important to say also that Donald Trump is not the first president. when he was president in 2018, who have criticized Netanyahu for essentially just relying on the U.S., freeloading on the U.S. for their own defenses.

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The Global Story: Does Trump’s return threaten the future of Nato?

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And that was particularly true after the Cold War, that countries stopped spending much on defense, reduced the size of their military capabilities and their militaries. That is slowly changing, but it's been a constant refrain from the U.S. that they are paying for Europe's security.

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The Global Story: Does Trump’s return threaten the future of Nato?

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Yeah, it took essentially 10 years for the Netherlands when Mark Ritter was the prime minister of the Netherlands to reach that 2% target. Even he admits that it took them too long now. And to some, it does seem a bit rich for him to preach this message of spend more on defence when he was so slow to do it himself. But I think Mark Rutter does have a number of things going his way.

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The Global Story: Does Trump’s return threaten the future of Nato?

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And that is, as you say, a personal relationship with Donald Trump. So when Donald Trump was criticizing European countries in 2018, not spending enough on defense, he wasn't pointing the finger at Mark Rutter, even though he had every right to. He's pointing the finger mostly Germany.

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The Global Story: Does Trump’s return threaten the future of Nato?

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And Mark Rutter was very careful when he was the prime minister of the Netherlands to give credit to Donald Trump for forcing countries to spend more on defense of that 2018 NATO summit. And that has played dividends in terms of his personal relationship with Donald Trump. He's already gone as NATO's secretary general to have a private meeting with Donald Trump at Mar-a-Lago.

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The Global Story: Does Trump’s return threaten the future of Nato?

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So, you know, there is some investment in their personal relationships.

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The Global Story: Does Trump’s return threaten the future of Nato?

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Well, I think you're absolutely right to point out that Mark Ritter is playing essentially to Donald Trump's ego and he has given him the credit for forcing European countries to increase defence spending when the reality probably is that that European countries suddenly increased defence spending, most of them, after Russia's full-scale invasion.

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The Global Story: Mohammed bin Salman from pariah to peacemaker

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And I think he saw his own presidency and sees his own presidency in sort of dynastic terms. Trump is impressed by dynastic families. He also wanted to sell the Saudis lots of weapons.

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The Global Story: Mohammed bin Salman from pariah to peacemaker

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And the Saudis promised to buy hundreds of millions of dollars of weapons.

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The Global Story: Mohammed bin Salman from pariah to peacemaker

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And the Saudis were relieved that he wasn't Barack Obama, that he wasn't lecturing them on human rights, and they felt that this was a president that they could do business with.

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The Global Story: Mohammed bin Salman from pariah to peacemaker

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rather than doing Washington's bidding, which was certainly, I think, how MBS saw that his predecessors had done things.

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The Global Story: Mohammed bin Salman from pariah to peacemaker

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Yes, well, Trump put Jared Kushner in charge of attempts to broker a Middle East peace process in the Trump first term.

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The Global Story: Mohammed bin Salman from pariah to peacemaker

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And Jared Kushner was the prince slaying of one dynastic family going to meet the prince of another. And they would stay up late at night playing video games. They would WhatsApp each other. And I think the strength of that relationship actually emboldened MBS to do some of the rather outlandish things that he's done.

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The Global Story: Mohammed bin Salman from pariah to peacemaker

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So, for example, when he had hundreds of princes locked up in the Ritz-Carlton Hotel, Trump tweeted in favor of this. The stronger the relationship with Kushner became, I think the more MBS felt emboldened to do the things that he did. I think there was a degree of permissiveness there and impulsivity in the young Saudi crown prince. What happens at the end of the first Trump presidency?

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The Global Story: Mohammed bin Salman from pariah to peacemaker

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Well, Jared Kushner goes into business in Florida. He sets up an investment fund. And the biggest investors are, surprise, surprise, the Saudi sovereign wealth fund that gives Jared Kushner $2 billion. You know, that relationship endures. And in fact, only in February last month, Donald Trump was down in Florida talking to the Saudis.

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The Global Story: Mohammed bin Salman from pariah to peacemaker

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The head of the Sovereign Wealth Fund was over there, a man called Yasser al-Rumayyan. He's played golf with Mr. Trump. Donald Trump's golf courses make money from the Saudi golf championship that is the rival to the PGA. So the relationship exists on many different levels.

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The Global Story: Mohammed bin Salman from pariah to peacemaker

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Yeah, I think there's a sort of keeping up with the Joneses going on in the Gulf, where Saudi Arabia, a massive country, the most powerful and richest country in the Gulf, looks at little Qatar next door, looks at the United Arab Emirates, who've been projecting soft power for years, buying football clubs or owning well-known buildings in Western capitals.

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The Global Story: Mohammed bin Salman from pariah to peacemaker

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And MBS has begun to put the sovereign wealth fund, of which he's in charge, and which has $925 billion under management. to project Saudi Arabia's own power, whether it's buying Newcastle United, having stakes in companies like Uber in the United States. I don't think it's sports washing. I think that's the wrong phrase to use because that's quite a Western-centric way of looking at things.

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The Global Story: Mohammed bin Salman from pariah to peacemaker

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They're sort of assuming that MBS wants the approval of the West, etc. It's much more like, I'm here. I'm not going anywhere. You need to recognise my power.

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The Global Story: Mohammed bin Salman from pariah to peacemaker

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Yeah, it really is radically different. And I think that the latest thing that's really taking off is foreign tourism. I think in terms of the reforms, it's quite hard to think of many recently. They're becoming a bit historic, which suggests that things are slowing down a bit in terms of change in Saudi Arabia. But there's no doubt about it.

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The Global Story: Mohammed bin Salman from pariah to peacemaker

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Men and women mixing much more freely in cafes, cinemas reopening, religious police taken off the streets. pop concerts, football stars playing in the kingdom. It's become a place in which you can have a lot more fun than you ever could, although alcohol is still banned. You can't have fun without a drink, Jonathan. No, I know that.

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The Global Story: Mohammed bin Salman from pariah to peacemaker

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It's just interesting that there are still limits in terms of where he thinks he can take his kingdom and on what timescale.

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The Global Story: Mohammed bin Salman from pariah to peacemaker

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I think hosting peace talks with Ukraine, with Russia, with the United States is about projecting MBS's power as a truly global leader. Ironically, there is some rivalry about who it is is going to resolve this particular crisis. So the Turks have been trying very hard to resolve it too. MBS has helped broker the release of Russian and Ukrainian prisoners.

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The Global Story: Mohammed bin Salman from pariah to peacemaker

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He helped engineer the swap of Russian and American prisoners. He's also sent humanitarian aid to Ukraine. And I think he instinctively admires Vladimir Putin in the same way that Donald Trump does. I think there was this little mutual appreciation society amongst nationalist strongmen, Trump, Putin.

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The Global Story: Mohammed bin Salman from pariah to peacemaker

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But then Zelensky, after he met MBS, talked of his wise perspective, which is a very different MBS to the one, the impulsive and rather dangerous young man we saw when he first became current prince.

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The Global Story: Mohammed bin Salman from pariah to peacemaker

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I don't think it's about MBS leveraging things from others. I think it's much more about MBS projecting his nation's power. And what we're witnessing is a coming of age of a rather slumbering kingdom of that we always knew was important, but we didn't know much about it. It was the custodian of the two holy mosques. It had lots of oil. It had a strict Wahhabist Islamic faith.

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The Global Story: Mohammed bin Salman from pariah to peacemaker

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And that's about as much as anybody really knew. And I think MBS sees himself, rather in his grandfather's shoes, as a man who's putting his kingdom on the map. And doing so... for generations to come. So he's only 39 now. He could be in charge of Saudi Arabia for the next 50 years if he's not assassinated. And he has enormous power to wield, enormous wealth.

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The Global Story: Mohammed bin Salman from pariah to peacemaker

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It's so easy to get the oil out and to market. Why didn't this happen before, I think, is how a lot of people might look at this when you look at how powerful and rich Saudi Arabia is. And it's taken a young man with vision and ambition and ruthlessness to do what his predecessors hadn't managed.

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The Global Story: Mohammed bin Salman from pariah to peacemaker

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It's a very good question. He's 39 years old. He's over six foot tall. He's bearded. He's charismatic in the way of a kind of old-fashioned tribal Saudi prince. He's a workaholic. He likes to stay up for much of the night. He will summon visitors at one o'clock in the morning if that suits him. He is a man on a mission to change his country as quickly as he can. And I think he feels that he's in a

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The Global Story: Mohammed bin Salman from pariah to peacemaker

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I think he's a thug, but he's not the only thug on the world stage. I admire what he's trying to do to his kingdom, that he's trying to drag it into the 21st century. I admire the fact that he's stood up to religious extremism. I admire the fact that radical Islam is not being exported from Saudi Arabia to places like Pakistan in the way that it was.

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The Global Story: Mohammed bin Salman from pariah to peacemaker

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I admire the fact that men and women can now mix freely and feel that they're living in a far less restrictive world. But I think there's a price to pay when you have an absolute ruler like MBS, which is a really ruthless grip on power. Some people would say, well, that's what you've got to do in order to stay alive. You've got to be one step ahead of your enemies.

Global News Podcast

The Global Story: Mohammed bin Salman from pariah to peacemaker

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Jonathan, pleasure to talk to you.

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The Global Story: Mohammed bin Salman from pariah to peacemaker

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a race against time to do that. And that may be one of the things which made him appeal to his own father, King Salman, in terms of who was going to be his heir. King Salman had plenty of other sons to choose from. MBS is the chosen one.

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The Global Story: Mohammed bin Salman from pariah to peacemaker

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He's the heir to the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, which makes him in charge of the world's biggest exporter of oil and one of the world's biggest importers of weapons.

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The Global Story: Mohammed bin Salman from pariah to peacemaker

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Yes. The king is now 89 years old. And the iller his father has become, and this isn't something that is talked about openly in Saudi Arabia, but is sort of widely acknowledged by those in the know, the more power MBS has accrued. So he's been crown prince since 2017. And then in 2022, he was made prime minister. Nobody's in any doubt in Saudi Arabia who rules the roost.

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The Global Story: Mohammed bin Salman from pariah to peacemaker

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And he's not just in charge of an absolute monarchy where there are no political parties and no demonstrations about anything, but he also has an unprecedented degree of power even within that system. because he has sidelined potential rivals, curbed the power of Islamic clerics, and put the frighteners up, the business community, who have all had to step into line.

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The Global Story: Mohammed bin Salman from pariah to peacemaker

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MBS, as he's known, Mohammed bin Salman, has compared himself with Alexander the Great. I mean, clearly, that impulsiveness is evident from a series of events. from 2015 when his father became king. And the question is, has he changed?

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The Global Story: Mohammed bin Salman from pariah to peacemaker

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Well, there were various things that were different about the way MBS went to war in Yemen. First of all, he dispatched with the usual slow, rather conservative way of making decisions in Saudi Arabia, where people sit around and talk about it for a long time. He didn't do that. He didn't consult the Americans to any significant extent.

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The Global Story: Mohammed bin Salman from pariah to peacemaker

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A former British ambassador to Saudi Arabia told me that the Americans were given 24, 48 hours' notice that the war was going to take place, which was his way, I think MBS's way, of saying that he was independent from Washington. And 350,000 dead, perhaps. A large number of people killed either in the conflict itself or in the subsequent starvation of the people.

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The Global Story: Mohammed bin Salman from pariah to peacemaker

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So an incredibly controversial war, which MBS has struggled to get himself out of.

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The Global Story: Mohammed bin Salman from pariah to peacemaker

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Yes, sure. So the Ritz-Carlton Hotel in downtown Riyadh became a prison, really. I mean, these businessmen, as you say, tycoons, including some of the richest people in the world, people like Prince Alwaleed bin Talal, who had flew around the world on his own jumbo jet. So all these businessmen were rounded up in what is colloquially known as the shakedown. And fleeced of their money.

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The Global Story: Mohammed bin Salman from pariah to peacemaker

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They were essentially told that unless they handed large sums to the state coffers, they couldn't leave. And MBS himself estimated that about $100 billion had been recouped for the Saudi treasury. MBS said, you know, this was his drive against corruption, against businessmen who'd been milking the state. And there's probably a great deal of truth in that.

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The Global Story: Mohammed bin Salman from pariah to peacemaker

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But it served a wider purpose, I think, which was about the consolidation of MBS's own power and just removing all the possible avenues that there could be in Saudi Arabia to move against him.

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The Global Story: Mohammed bin Salman from pariah to peacemaker

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Well, this journalist, Jamal Khashoggi, walked into the Saudi consulate in Istanbul to get a piece of paper that proved that he was divorced because he wanted to marry a Turkish woman and show the Turkish woman's father that he wasn't married to anyone else.

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The Global Story: Mohammed bin Salman from pariah to peacemaker

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And he never came out again alive.

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The Global Story: Mohammed bin Salman from pariah to peacemaker

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The Turks were bugging the Saudi consulate and they successfully recorded conversations in the lead up to the killing and indeed the killing itself, which they released to the international press. Astonishing move against the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia.

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The Global Story: Mohammed bin Salman from pariah to peacemaker

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And to cut a long story short, Donald Trump, the president at the time, gave MBS a free pass in the sense that if you look at one of Bob Woodward's books on the first Trump presidency… He quotes Trump as saying, I saved his behind. Tell him he owes us one. In other words, Trump very much sort of took ownership of the fact that that MBS survived that scandal.

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The Global Story: Mohammed bin Salman from pariah to peacemaker

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Although his successor, Joe Biden, published the intelligence into the killing scandal.

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The Global Story: Mohammed bin Salman from pariah to peacemaker

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the operation to either capture or kill the journalist was most likely approved by the Saudi crown prince, simply down to his absolute control of the Saudi security services. And several of the men in the hit squad were bodyguards of the crown prince, and they were flying on diplomatic passports on a plane owned by the Saudi sovereign wealth fund.

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The Global Story: Mohammed bin Salman from pariah to peacemaker

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Yes, that's right. If you look at the family photos of G20 leaders when they get together for their summits, you can see one photo where MBS is on the very edge of the frame and a leader that nobody really wants to talk to. But then about a year later, he's back in the centre of the frame, standing next to President Trump. So his visible rehabilitation was pretty quick.

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The Global Story: Mohammed bin Salman from pariah to peacemaker

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for all sorts of obvious reasons, because Saudi Arabia is the world's biggest exporter of oil and MBS controls the spigot. He's a man you have to do business with. To borrow a phrase, he's too big to fail. and he's not going anywhere.

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The Global Story: Mohammed bin Salman from pariah to peacemaker

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And even Joe Biden, who had called the Saudis a pariah and said he would treat them like the pariahs that they were, that's what Biden said when he was on the campaign trail, even he beat a path to Saudi Arabia to meet MBS because he wanted the world oil price to be lower.

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The Global Story: Mohammed bin Salman from pariah to peacemaker

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It did look strange. And there was a sort of COVID explanation for it. You know, this was after COVID and everyone was being a bit careful about But he wasn't the only world leader to make their way to Saudi Arabia because what happened after Russia's full scale of invasion of Ukraine in 2022 is that the price of oil shot up.

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The Global Story: Mohammed bin Salman from pariah to peacemaker

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And we were all plunged into a cost of living crisis and an energy crisis. And the Saudis refused to pump more oil, which would have lowered the price. And so at that very moment, MBS proved how powerful he was and that he could not be avoided and that the killing of Jamal Khashoggi and the other things he was accused of doing could not be held against him indefinitely.

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The Global Story: Mohammed bin Salman from pariah to peacemaker

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I think it goes way back, actually, because when Trump announced that he was running for president in 2016, he made a speech in Trump Tower. In that speech, he said, I love the Saudis. They buy apartments from me. Very early on, he had this sense that these people had unimaginable amounts of money. And that impressed him.

Global News Podcast

The Global Story: The fight for the Arctic

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There are tensions there and those tensions in the future could cause something that that neither side wanted. And I don't think either side want to see conflict in that area at the moment. But Russia's military focus has been on Ukraine and that, you know, some of its plans to expand its its. military presence in the north has had to be constrained because of what's going on in Ukraine.

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The Global Story: The fight for the Arctic

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So I don't sense any immediate threat. When you go up there, you know, native exercising, they're clearly worried, but you do not sense an immediate threat and that this is going to break out into some kind of conflict. But that is, of course, the fear in the longer term.

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The Global Story: The fight for the Arctic

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Yeah, and they've been doing naval exercises too in that region or close to that region. I think there is a difference in that China's interest is more mercenary, it's economic, whereas for Russia it is both economic but also strategic. In other words, what is worrying the West at the moment, a growing relationship between China and Russia, does not inevitably mean that

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The Global Story: The fight for the Arctic

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that they are in total agreement. And Russia will be concerned in some ways, as it is about NATO expansion, about Chinese expansion, but at the moment needs it. And I think there's also one other thing that is in common interest between Russia and China, and that is breaking up what are the UN laws of the sea, UNCLOS, which essentially... is about free passage.

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The Global Story: The fight for the Arctic

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And that's exactly what China is trying to do in the Indo-Pacific region. And I think the concern will be that from the Western countries is that will be what Russia and China try to do in the Arctic.

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The Global Story: The fight for the Arctic

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I think there's always the danger that even if you haven't got direct conflict between countries, Russia, let's be honest, it is now native countries up there, that there will be what we're seeing as a result of the Ukraine war. There is sabotage. That's certainly what the West is accusing.

Global News Podcast

The Global Story: The fight for the Arctic

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And there is evidence of it by Russia in Western countries, whether it be at arms factories, targeting individuals in the past. And I think one of the concerns, for example, that we have seen is in the Arctic region, is some fibre optic cables being cut. And that certainly happened in Svalbard a few years ago.

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The Global Story: The fight for the Arctic

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And questions as to, well, was this just natural or was this a deliberate operation by Russia? We know that Russia, for example, has underwater craft that can essentially got a big pair of scissors on them and can cut cables. And the Russians have been hovering over cables.

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The Global Story: The fight for the Arctic

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So I think it's always the concern is that there may be some sort of hybrid, what they call hybrid, in other words, not full scale combat, but activities, military activities that could target individual countries and disrupt Western communications. And I think the other thing we haven't mentioned is, you know, Russia has... We talked a bit about climate change earlier.

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The Global Story: The fight for the Arctic

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Russia's got lots of nuclear, not just weapons, but also nuclear power stations, but also nuclear systems that are basically being buried underground there. And there has been increase in radioactivity across the border. And, you know, that's a worry too. So I think there's plenty to worry about.

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The Global Story: The fight for the Arctic

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It's not just full-scale blown war, which I think is highly unlikely, but I think there's plenty to worry about below the threshold of war.

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The Global Story: The fight for the Arctic

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No, I haven't been to the Russian bit, which is probably the most interesting bit. But I've been to the Norwegian part of the Arctic, the Finnish part of the Arctic. I've also been to Alaska, where the US has some military bases, missile defence systems based there.

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The Global Story: The fight for the Arctic

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Director, MCS reports a second quick alert. This is the control room where America would launch its ground-based missile interceptors.

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The Global Story: The fight for the Arctic

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These operators linked up to satellites in space and radar on the ground can respond within seconds.

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The Global Story: The fight for the Arctic

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I mean, most of what I've covered is military elements of the Arctic. I have been close to the border between Norway and I went on a border patrol with the Norwegians actually on their small border with Russia at the top near Kirkenes. A very odd experience because they patrol the border. Sometimes they do actually pass Russian patrols, but they're not allowed to interact with them.

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The Global Story: The fight for the Arctic

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But yes, I mean, it is a much more sort of potentially dangerous dangerous area now, given that the tensions that have been between, well, not tensions, the war that exists between Russia and Ukraine, and clearly Russia worried about what NATO is doing.

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The Global Story: The fight for the Arctic

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Yeah, I think the simple answer is oil and gas. That is, there are large reserves in the Arctic region, and that is why a lot of countries are interested. I mean, there are more basic economic reasons. Russia, I think, gets about a third of its fish from the Arctic region. And then there's the melting ice, so the disappearance of the ice

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The Global Story: The fight for the Arctic

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in the Northern Sea Passage, and that is opening up a potential trade route from Asia to Europe, which could be exploited. Better in some years than other years, but for example, in theory, if you were going from Asia via the Suez Canal to Europe, it would take you around 37 days. If you were able to navigate through the Northern Sea Passage, that would take you 23 days.

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The Global Story: The fight for the Arctic

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So that's one of the reasons possibly that countries are getting more interested is because they realise that that is a sea route. And as Tim mentioned, Russia swallows up more than half the territory of that sea route and therefore would like to control that sea route.

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The Global Story: The fight for the Arctic

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And we've seen what's happened in the Pacific with China and the seas around it trying to control the freedom of navigation, which is worried, particularly the US, the same worry could happen in the Arctic.

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The Global Story: The fight for the Arctic

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Well, I think you have to, in military terms, you have to realise how strategically important the Arctic region is to Russia. And that's mainly because they're Strategic Nuclear Bomber Fleet, their submarine fleet, their ballistic missile submarine fleet, is based in the Kola Peninsula right there at the top of the Barents Sea.

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The Global Story: The fight for the Arctic

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That is the submarine base they will use for patrols into the Uyghur gap. That's the gap between Greenland, Iceland and the UK. Very important to go into the Atlantic there for the Russians. And obviously tensions have increased there. So, for example...

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The Global Story: The fight for the Arctic

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You know, a couple of years ago, we had the chief of the defence staff here in the UK saying that Russian submarine activity a few years ago had increased tenfold. So it's an important part of the world for Russia, not just for its strategic fleet, but also for its weapons testing. It's tested its hypersonic missiles up in the Arctic.

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The Global Story: The fight for the Arctic

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It's got a number of nuclear facilities up there and it has expanded its military presence. Now, clearly, that expansion was happening at a greater pace before Russia's full scale invasion of Ukraine after 2014, but before the full scale invasion. And they have, for example, at least three major bases, 13 airfields, radar stations, border outposts, right across that coast.

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The Global Story: The fight for the Arctic

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And, you know, the plan was to increase that military presence. Now, given what's happened recently with the fact that NATO has been expanded with Finland and Sweden joining, and that's one of the reasons why Putin, not the only reason, but one of the reasons why Putin went to war, because he didn't want Ukraine to be a member of NATO. When he sees expansion of the NATO alliance up into the north,

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The Global Story: The fight for the Arctic

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you've got to ask the question, you know, the likelihood that he'll be just as concerned. And that's, I think, the reason why people are worried. And that is why you've seen both increased Russian military presence and also increased activity by NATO countries too.

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The Global Story: The fight for the Arctic

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It is. You're absolutely right. And you know that before before Russia's full scale invasion of Ukraine, I would go on exercises, military exercises up to the Arctic region. The British go there. The American Marines go there. They regularly hold what they call cold response, a NATO exercise. And you would not be able to get anybody to say the word Russia.

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The Global Story: The fight for the Arctic

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They would all talk about, you know, if there is a threat to this region, we will be ready to respond. And then you'd ask, well, who's that threat? And they would always try to avoid mentioning Russia. You go now, you go after the full scale invasion. It is Russia that's the threat there. That is why they're there. And that's why they're on exercise.

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The Global Story: The fight for the Arctic

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Yeah. And I've spoken to some of the pilots, the Norwegian pilots who fly up towards the Barents Sea. And, you know, they regularly come into interactions with the Russians. It hasn't escalated, thankfully. But, you know, that is how tensions can get out of control if somebody takes action. military action, in other words, does something that they shouldn't do.

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The Global Story: The fight for the Arctic

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And then you've got to look at the rhetoric from the Russians as well. And, you know, Russian rhetoric is not generally as conciliatory as Western rhetoric that you've just mentioned there. For example, Lavrov, the foreign minister, has said it's absolutely clear to everyone that that this is our territory when he's talking about the Northern Sea route.

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The Global Story: The fight for the Arctic

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We've heard from former Defence Minister Sergei Shoigu who said, given NATO's desire to build up military potential near the Russian borders, retaliatory measures are required to create an appropriate grouping of troops in northwest Russia. So, you know, the rhetoric is heating up. I would caveat everything that even though, yes,

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US demands Panama 'reduce China's influence' over canal

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Mr. Pajot. So I'm Jonathan Pajot. I am a liturgical artist, a writer, but mostly I would say I'm someone who loves patterns and loves to show the beauty of the world, the beauty of art, the beauty of stories, the beauty of images. And the gospel is, for me, the key. It really is the place where these patterns come together.

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US demands Panama 'reduce China's influence' over canal

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And I often say that, but it's rare that I have the chance to sometimes show it, to be able to point it out so that people can see to what extent the story of Jesus brings all the stories together. And so, you know, it's a huge undertaking.

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US demands Panama 'reduce China's influence' over canal

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Because we're coming in the shadow of our Exodus seminar, that's the way that I'm going to approach all of this, which is what I'm hoping to do is to constantly help people see that the realities we perceived in Exodus, right, this fractal mountain of the world and how the world comes together,

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some of the puzzles that were presented in Exodus and are presented in Genesis actually are brought together into this story. So that is my hope is to hopefully help people that are watching and everybody here see just how precious and beautiful this story is. And the fact that it has become

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the cornerstone of Western civilization is not an accident of history, but it is through the very nature of the character of Christ, but also his story. So...

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the word the world into being it's joining it with the greek idea of logos which is huge obviously we'll talk about that um but what i'd like to just propose is that what we'll see when we look at the narrative of jesus is that what's described right there at the beginning which is that the light that shines in the darkness and the darkness that does not recognize it but just this idea of the light moving down into the darkness

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is the whole structure of the life of Jesus. You'll see that happening all through his life, which is, it explains everything that he does, is that he moves from this mysterious meaning, this source of being, and then he moves out into death, into disease, into the margin, into all the things that don't fit. He basically fills the world with himself, but the world does not recognize him.

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And so that's the first thing that I would say is that as we read the rest of all the other scripture, because people will tell us that that, you know, John is the weird gospel. It doesn't it's not the same as the synoptic gospels. But I think this pattern here is the actual pattern of the life of Jesus that you see all through all through the story.

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And in some ways, the what the story of Jesus and how he does that story. nonstop and in every single way that you even haven't thought of is going to be the proof of this. That it's like, do you know what that looks like for the light to move down into the darkness? What does that look like?

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And Christ will show that through His miracles, through His teaching, through His crucifixion, all through the story.

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So what word was at the beginning? The idea is to say, this is ultimately the Christian understanding, is to say that the God speaking is not created. When God speaks, it's not something else created. than Him. It is in some ways separate from Him, but also God. This is coming to love that Bishop Barron was going to talk about, that God speaking is His own being that is speaking into the world.

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But for sure the light, the life, and the word, they are things that make other things exist in the sense that light is that which makes things seen, life is that which makes things move, and word is meaning that makes things happen.

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And so you can see that the analogies that John is putting together are there to say, like, if you don't understand what the word logos is, then light will bring you a little further. And if you don't know what light is, you know, then life will bring you a little further. And like you said, it's not that one of those is actually describing anything.

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It's that all of them playing with each other are pointing you to the mystery of the notion that there are invisible things. movers that make things move or make things happen, make things exist.

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And this, I think, is like the first moving into this crazy proposition, which is that this fellow Jesus of Nazareth, that's where it all comes together. But at least at the outset, what we can perceive is that this union, the place where this comes together is in man. Right.

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Even if we don't come to the person of Jesus yet, we can understand that if we, the capacity, the consciousness, human consciousness in the world that we know is the locus through which all these vectors join together.

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But right here it says, right? Right in the text it says, But as many as received him, to them gave he the power to become sons of God. Right? And so, like, we'll see how this plays out in the story. But, you know, that this is already hinted at, right? That this is our role. That this is the role that humans play are to become sons of God. To become the place where this...

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You know, the invisible, all of the invisible pattern, love, relationality, all that come together into this anchor.

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What verse are you reading?

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So it's important to know that when Jordan is reading the gospel text, he's not actually reading from a gospel, but it's a kind of compilation of different gospels. So sometimes it starts in one gospel and then it cuts to another. And so for people that know the gospels really well, this might be a very frustrating experience. I know even for us at the table,

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It is a little bit of a frustrating experience. I think most of the people that are Christian around the table would have liked us to either pick one gospel or, you know, follow one gospel and then supplement with another. But Jordan is really adamant on going to the single gospel. And so, you know, I mean, in the end, what's important is we do get through the story of Jesus.

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And, you know, we get through the major events and the major teaching of Jesus. But even at the table, if... I don't know if the camera picks it up, but sometimes we're bewildered because we don't know. We're like flipping through the Bible and we don't know where we are, you know.

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And so, yes, that's important to understand because even for the viewer, while you're watching it, you'll have a little bit of that experience yourself.

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You have to show how bad the situation is, too, before the hero comes in. And that's one of the things that John the Baptist does. He says, you know, it's like the axe is at the root of the tree, folks. This is it. Things are dire. Everything, you know, you need to repent because the fire is coming, you know.

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And so everything is in a very dire state, you know, before the main character comes into.

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Well, so Elijah, so in the Elijah, in St. John story, there are many things that are going on. I think the best way to understand is that he's there to kind of end the world. So you imagine there's Christ is the new beginning, is a new world, new creation. And then he's there to end that world. And then a new beginning will come.

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And, you know, in the story of Elijah, it's the crossing of the Jordan. That's where that happens, right? Elijah crosses the Jordan. Then he's taken up. You know, and then Elisha receives the spirit of Elijah. And that is also the crossing of the Red Sea. It's the crossing of the Jordan when they enter into Jericho.

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There's all these images of the crossing of the water that's going down, this undoing of the world. It's the flood itself. Enoch goes up before the flood. This undoing of the world before the new world is born. And so in St. John, you see that happening. You see it also in His Annunciation, which is that it's a recapitulation of all the women of the Old Testament, of the barren women.

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So you have these old women that haven't had children, right? This kind of fallen world that God has to nonetheless give grace to, so to perpetuate it, even though it's fallen and it's broken. That's the end of the world. And the Annunciation to Elizabeth, to Zachariah and Elizabeth and the Annunciation to Mary are like the end of the beginning. Mary is the virgin waters.

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And the Spirit of God descends on her, like in Genesis 1, where the Spirit is above the waters. So you can see that it's all of this relationship between the baptism, between the birth, the Annunciation to Mary, the Annunciation to Elizabeth are showing the end of a world and the beginning of a new world that is happening.

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But he's also, I mean, John, like from a Christian interpretation, John is also telling people Jerusalem is going to be destroyed. Like he's saying, get ready. This is over. And so when Jesus, when Joshua crushes the Jordan this time, it's not Jericho that's going to be destroyed. It is Jerusalem that is going to be destroyed. Like the imagery is really prescient.

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But it's not a ritual. It's recapitulation of the Red Sea, of the cross from the Jordan, of Elisha's sending for healing in the Jordan. It's not like he's making it up with his own. No, no, I'm not saying that. He's basically taking all of this and recapitulating it.

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The crossing of the Red Sea is already a forgiveness of sins because the Egyptians remain in the water. The image is already there. When the Israelites cross the Red Sea, the Egyptians remain in the water and the Israelites come out at the end.

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So if you understand sin as transgression, as the thing that doesn't fit, as the thing that isn't towards the purpose. If we get away from just the simple moral, this is good, this is bad. If we understand that what sin is, is that which is not aimed towards the purpose. So you have things that step out of the purpose.

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That is what the drowning of the Egyptian is because they are not moving towards Sinai. They're not forgiven. They're not moving towards Sinai. Right, they're not forgiven. No, they're not forgiven.

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And Bishop Barron, I'd like to hear your... Well, in Matthew, it's amazing, because in Matthew, you really have this repetition of Exodus. You know, so, I mean, we'll get to it when we talk about it, but Christ is chased into Egypt, you know, to flee his brother, and then he comes back, when he comes back, he crosses the sea, he's baptized.

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Then he goes to be tempted into the desert, and then he goes up the mountain to give the new law. That's where he does the Sermon of the Mount. And so that is really, the Christians really understand the baptism as this renewal. 40 days in the wilderness, 40 years in the wilderness. And so when you see Christ going in the water, it's a repetition of Genesis 1. It's so clear.

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He goes down into the water, and then it says, when he comes up, the Spirit came down upon him as a dove. It's not just the Genesis 1, it's also the end of the flood. It's the Genesis 1, it's the end of the flood. It's Joshua, it's the Israelites going to the Sinai.

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It's all of these images of water crossing that are in the Old Testament are recapitulated into this image of regeneration, which is the beginning of a new world. But you could say that that's ritually what it is for us that is that when we go into the water, we come out new. It is a new birth, a new beginning, like it's being born again, all of that imagery.

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But Christ says that he's doing it for, he doesn't need it. He's doing it for us. He's doing it to show us what is real about himself.

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And we're going to get to the, when she meets Simeon in the temple, then we get the fullness of what you're saying, where Simeon tells her, you know, a sword will also pierce your heart. Like you are moving towards sacrifice of your own. It's not only your son that will be sacrificed, but you will also...

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Or it's David's dance in the presence of the Ark. She's being treated as the Ark of the Covenant in the story because it says that the presence of God will descend upon you. And so the image is that she is the waters, like the Holy Spirit comes down upon her as the waters of creation, but also the presence of God descends upon her as the Ark of the Covenant.

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And then that will... Obviously, these are... The text is going to tease all of these things out, right? Because these are things that you always have to remember how crazy what we're saying is. It is crazy to say that this man is God. And so the story slowly teases out as we move towards the... So it was deliberate on the part of the angel to omit that. Yeah. Or to intimate it.

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People write towards purposes. And so there are different reasons why you would include it and different reasons why you would exclude it. I mean, in the Gospels it says, I think it's in the Gospel of John where it says, you know, all the books of the world cannot contain the story of Jesus. And so if we ask why is this person saying this detail and why this other person is not saying this detail.

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Because you see that, I mean, in the entire rest of the gospel, you'll have Christ saying, okay, don't say this. Don't say this. Don't say this. Wait, this is not, like, nobody's ready for this yet. Wait, wait, wait. And then as things start to become clear, then the message gets out.

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And Augustus is the first god emperor. It's important to understand.

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The shepherds are also counter to city because they're the opposite of civilization. They have these flocks, they move around, they don't stay in one place, they don't have agriculture, they don't have all the things, all the tropes of the city.

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Yeah, so although, you know, the conditions are- But there is a desire to create a foil though, I think, you know, because even if we talk about the Pax Romana, we haven't gotten to the, right after that, when the angels announced, they say, glory to God in the highest peace on earth of men of goodwill, right? It's basically, it's trying to say,

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I think it is creating a foil to the Roman rule, which is here's the great emperor, without maybe not necessarily criticizing, but here's the great emperor, here's this piece, but now here's the true emperor that's hidden at the bottom of the world in a cave, in a manger, and that this is through this that the true peace will be found.

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But it also has to be, like for it to be the fullness, you also have to have these extremes where the angels appear above, these singing angels, the music of the spheres, and then the lowest aspect of reality being connected together so that you say, oh, this is the fullness of God's revelation, the fullness of God's presence in the world represented by these two extremes with the angels up above.

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It has to do with hypocrisy. Yeah. The idea of saying one thing and doing another. Like, that's the opposite of incarnation. It's like, it's this disjoining of heaven and earth where you have a word and a being that aren't connected. You say things, you think something, you say something, and then you do another thing. Where Christ is saying, no, heaven and earth have to be united.

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That is what the incarnation is trying to show.

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Sure. I mean, the interesting thing about the flight into Egypt and the massacre of the innocents is, you know, the story of Jesus is always smashing the Old Testament references together, bringing them together in a way that is absolutely crazy. And so what happens is when Jesus goes to Egypt, he's doing the flight and return from Egypt at the same time.

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That is, when Joseph goes to Egypt, he flees his brothers trying to kill him. When Moses leaves Egypt with the Israelites, he's fleeing the Pharaoh that tried to kill the children of Israel. And so in this version, the two come together in one story. And there's a third element too, which is also King David fleeing King Saul, who the true king fleeing the king that is there at this moment.

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So you have this wild image where, you know, the... Christ goes into Egypt in order to flee the king in both ways, like fleeing his own brother, but then also fleeing the tyrant Pharaoh. It's hard even to say it because all the images kind of come together. But this is, we talked about this in Exodus. It's a difficult situation because in some ways it has to do with the problem of the one.

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And it has to do with the problem of the concentration of a generation into one person. It's a little scandalous to talk about it, but I think that that is part of what is happening.

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All the young, all the babies.

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And it's another echoing of the idea that... And also Joseph, like Joseph leaving his brothers that want to kill him into Egypt, but then also Moses leaving Egypt into the Promised Land. Those two get smashed into one image.

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There's also the intimation that's been presented right from the beginning and will be continually presented, which is that It is related to the story of Joseph, something like the stranger will recognize him first. Like this will move towards the strangers.

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And for the Christians, too, it's important because the early church, there was a debate. There was actually an early Christian who proposed a single gospel. He said, you know, we have to take these unwieldy texts and merge them into one nice, clean, coherent text.

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But the church resisted that because, you know, in some ways, they knew that the gospels were the closest accounts of the life of Jesus. They were handed down through the apostles, through the apostolic succession. They trusted these texts. And in some ways, the variety in the text, It is a witness to the kind of energy, you know, like the kind of frenetic desire to get this story down.

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And even the idea that in some ways it represents different perspectives on the same story. So Christ is hidden in the four Gospels, right? He is somewhat more than the four Gospels. That's important to understand. His life is not simply... told in those gospels.

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We have to understand that he's more than that, but that these gospels are the right testimony for his life, and they have a reason why each of them have their own thrust, their own narrative, their own emphasis, and that's very meaningful for the Christians.

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Israel's war on multiple fronts has not just worn down its enemy. not just taken the lives of thousands of civilians in Gaza and Lebanon. It's also extracted a price from its own people.

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Noam Glukhovsky, an IDF reservist, is counting the cost in days. We met in a Tel Aviv park during a brief respite from his military duties and trying to keep up with his studies. Being a medic in a reservist unit has already pushed back plans to become a doctor by another year. He's repeatedly been called up, but now he's had enough.

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If you're called up again, will you go back?

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More than 300,000 reservists answered the call to duty when Israel was attacked last year. Along with conscripts, reserves form the backbone of Israel's military, boosting the IDF's ranks in times of war. But there is now growing frustration, not least because one group's long been exempt from the draft. Call-up papers have now been issued to some of Israel's ultra-Orthodox Jews.

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Prompting protests like this, they believe their lives should be dedicated to religious study, not military service.

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It's an issue that's also divided the government. But many senior military officers say Israel can no longer afford to allow a section of society to dodge the draft. Ariel Hyman had to juggle his job as a geologist with military service. He was the IDF's first chief reserve officer.

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There's also the huge economic cost of relying on so many part-time soldiers.

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In her kitchen in Tel Aviv, Shalilotan is counting the costs of the war on her business and family. It's not just her husband who's been called to duty, but key members of a food tech start-up company. Like many small businesses in Israel, it's struggling to survive.

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Video released by Russia's government shows nine of its citizens being stretched onto a plane to be taken back to Moscow for further medical treatment. They're among 29 survivors of Wednesday's crash. The Azerbaijan Airlines plane was supposed to be flying from Baku to Grozny in southern Russia, but was diverted to Akhtu in Kazakhstan.

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The force of impact split the plane in two, with the front half destroyed by fire. key question is why. The military expert Justin Crump said suggestions that a bird strike caused the crash were unlikely.

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Unusual holes litter the rear part of the airplane, which survived largely intact. They will be closely examined by investigators. The Embraer E-190 airplane that came down has a good safety record, and the pilot should have been able to land it safely if there had been a bird strike. The Kremlin's spokesman is Dmitry Peskov.

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Cars blared their horns in the Azeri capital, Baku, as people stopped to remember the victims. A day of national mourning also saw large crowds leave flowers at Baku's airport in memory of the dead. Jonathan Josephs.

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We're heading out to the USS Carl Vinson, one of the world's largest aircraft carriers. It's currently out in the Pacific, off the coast of the Philippines.

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We've been invited to observe the Carl Vinson on a joint exercise with the French and Japanese navies.

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There was a bonhomie and warmth between the three men that seemed a world away from the recent bitter exchanges between President Trump's men and US allies in Europe.

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So we're down in this incredible hangar surrounded by some of the most advanced fighter planes you can find anywhere in the world. And there's no other country that can project this kind of military force over such long distances. But it's a very expensive operation. And there are questions being asked whether this kind of technology, this massive size, is still relevant in 21st century warfare.

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You have been nominated to be the Secretary of Defense. At the Senate confirmation hearings for new Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth last month, he was asked about the administration's military priorities.

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In the flight deck control room on the Carl Vinson, there's a board on which small model aircraft in various colours are arranged to show which planes are taking off, which are landing and which need fuel.

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It is an intricate task manoeuvring 60 warplanes around a space the size of three football fields. As they come into land, the pilots must ensure their arrestor hooks catch the steel cable pulled taut across the deck, and they slam to a halt in just 100 metres.

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For all of the unpredictability of today's America, out in the vast expanse of the Pacific, giant supercarriers like the Carl Vinson remain at the heart of US strategy.

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Putin responds to Trump's ceasefire plan

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There may be talk of a ceasefire, but here in eastern Ukraine, it's in a parallel universe. It's still wave after wave of wounded soldiers, these being transported in a special medical bus to a hospital, dozens at a time. And few of the soldiers on board believe there'll be a pause in the fighting any time soon. The Russians storm our positions pretty much every day, says Vova.

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I doubt there'll be a truce. Maxim, another injured soldier, says he's already lost a lot of his friends. I'd like to believe that all will be good, he says, but you can't trust Russia. Never. Sometimes they have to do this evacuation several times a day. 22-year-old Sofia, a medic with Ukraine's volunteer army, is preparing for the next one. She doesn't believe President Putin will stop.

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Ukraine may be hoping for peace, but it's still preparing for war. In arrest from the fighting, these troops are still honing their battle skills. They'll be back on the front line within days. Their hope is that America's back on their side, resuming military support and putting forward a proposal for a ceasefire.

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And any prevarication by President Putin on ending the war could bolster support for Ukraine.

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NATO calls for unity as tensions rise with US over Ukraine

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Well, he's saying that the parameters, as does Pete Hegseth, of these negotiations have not yet been decided. Even though we have heard from the US Defense Secretary that Ukraine will not be a member of the NATO alliance as far as the US is concerned, that it will not regain all the territories it's lost since 2014, that the US will not be

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a security guarantee for Ukraine if the war should end by putting boots on the ground. Both Mr. Rutter and also the U.S. Defense Secretary suggesting that those are not concessions, that the talks haven't, the negotiations haven't properly begun, that both sides will have to make concessions. And indeed, as far as Mr. Rutter is concerned, that Ukraine will have to be involved in those decisions.

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But at the And that's certainly the view of the German defence minister, Kaya Kallis, that concessions have been made to Vladimir Putin, but then there have been no such preconditions issued to Russia as to what they should concede. And so it does look a bit one-sided to a lot of countries here.

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I'm not sure I'd use the word cowed, but I think everybody remembers the first Trump administration and when there was a summit here in Brussels and Donald Trump was threatening to... pull out of the alliance because he felt countries were not spending enough on defence.

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That message again has come through loud and clear from the US Defence Secretary Pete Hegseth, who said Donald Trump wanted to make NATO great again, in other words, taking a campaign slogan and adjusting it for the alliance, but also saying that Europe had to take more responsibility for its own security and spend more on defence, suggesting that they should spend the state's 5%

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of their national income GDP on defense. That's not even a figure that the U.S. meets. They're just over 3%. But I think that as a way of keeping America in, and let's remember, America is the biggest, most powerful member of this military alliance, that they have to, to some extent, build bridges with Donald Trump. And that is the way that Mark Rutter, the head of NATO, operates.

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He's a consensus builder. He was a prime minister who ran coalition governments. That is how he survived. And that is how he sees the way of keeping America on side. So I think there is certainly an effort to try to again, we're back to the word appease, Donald Trump, to make sure that he doesn't completely sideline NATO or Ukraine.

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NATO calls for unity as tensions rise with US over Ukraine

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And if the war goes on and the fighting hasn't stopped, let's remember, these negotiations, we don't know whether they will succeed, but they will, European allies, still have to provide and fill the void left by the United States in terms of military support.

Global News Podcast

Trump tariffs trigger steepest US stocks drop since 2020

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The drastic scale of this reduction underlines that these U.S. tariffs pose the biggest challenge to the global trading system since the World Trade Organization began drawing up and enforcing the rules 30 years ago. The Director General, Ngozi Okonjo-Iweala, says the tariffs will have substantial implications for global trade and economic growth prospects.

Global News Podcast

Trump tariffs trigger steepest US stocks drop since 2020

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She added she was deeply concerned about escalation and retaliatory measures, which have already started, making things even worse.

Global News Podcast

Police suspend efforts to arrest impeached South Korean president

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Given that there were around 200 security officials there not letting them into President Yun's residence and lots of his impassioned supporters outside being held back by the police, it was probably wise for them to avoid a confrontation. So I think they're going back to reconsider. They may try to negotiate, though it doesn't look as though the atmosphere is very conducive to that.

Global News Podcast

Police suspend efforts to arrest impeached South Korean president

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they could try to get another arrest warrant when the current one runs out. Alternatively, Korea may just be left with the impeachment option. Impeachment proceedings are underway. The Constitutional Court held another hearing today, but that can take quite a long time, up to six months. The last impeachment of President Park Geun-hye in 2017 took three months.

Global News Podcast

Police suspend efforts to arrest impeached South Korean president

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I think given the gravity of the charge against President Yoon, this attempt to impose martial law, People his people opposed to him definitely don't want to wait that long for a resolution to this crisis.

Global News Podcast

Police suspend efforts to arrest impeached South Korean president

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Well, I think Korean politics has always had a pretty fiery flavor. You've got to remember this is a young democracy fought for at great cost in the late 1980s. It's a divided country living all the time under the sort of existential threat from North Korean forces. Politics has always been very intense. Heightened, some would argue, by the personality-driven nature of its democracy.

Global News Podcast

Police suspend efforts to arrest impeached South Korean president

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It's got largely first-past-the-post democracy. It tends towards a winner-takes-all outcome when you have elections. Plus, the judicial system has been used very freely under winning administrations to go after predecessors. four presidents have all either been investigated, impeached, or actually put in jail.

Global News Podcast

Police suspend efforts to arrest impeached South Korean president

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And I think that means people don't necessarily respect, they always think the judicial process, which of course is now being invoked to deal with President Yun's astonishing martial law attempt in early December, that many of his supporters will view that attempt as sort of partisan. And

Global News Podcast

Police suspend efforts to arrest impeached South Korean president

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After all, Korea is also subject to the same sort of polarisation of politics that you see in many other countries, driven, of course, by the new media environment we live in. All of these ingredients have led to a cocktail for a very intense political standoff and very little appetite for compromise.