Johnny Boursiquot
Appearances
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
welcome to changelog and friends a weekly talk show about the british indian ocean territory thanks to our partners at fly.io over 3 million apps have launched on fly including ours you can too in five minutes or less learn how at fly.io let's talk
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
Well, thankfully, that bridge wasn't burned. And I think the original trio, that was Brian, Carlicia, and Eric, did almost 100 bridges.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
high 80s low 90s episodes and then we put it on hiatus for a while and when it came time to reboot go time which we weren't sure if we'd ever reboot go time it was out there for probably about a year maybe 18 months of no production but when we decided to get a team together and give it a second shot which we did the exact same thing with J.S.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
Party by the way I'm not sure if it's like making the same mistake twice or was it even a mistake I don't even think it was necessarily a mistake just the way the history went And there's Johnny, like right there on our short list of like, well, we need some more people. And because you didn't burn the bridge and we still, you know, had fond feelings for you just didn't work out the first time.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
It was like an obvious choice. Second time around. Can you believe that initial conversation was probably. very early in the year 2016. So we're talking about, you know, eight years ago. Wow. Yeah. And then you've been on the show for probably five. I don't even know how long.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
Yeah. It's been a minute. Yeah. One thing you said early on was like, how are we going to keep doing a show about go every week? Like, aren't we going to run out of stuff so far? No, but I mean, I know it gets hard sometimes. Like, how do you come up with new stuff all the time to talk about? Because Go is a niche inside of a niche.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
And so, you know, there's only so many Go releases and functions to call. I know, right?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
For instance, I'm listening to the founder mode conversation right now. I'm a few weeks behind, of course, as I always am, catching up with GoTime. And founder mode conversation with you, Chris and Angelica, when you're not a founder, you're just a regular employee at an organization. Like, how does this Paul Graham essay apply to us? Yeah. I think it's fine.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
I think it's totally legit for a go time conversation because like, of course, we all live in this world where we're using our skills to make a living or to create stuff or to start a business or working for a startup founder or working in a large organization. We're all in these different areas and these facets all affect us.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
And so it's easy to tie back to the programming language or to the people using the programming language because we're all kind of in this similar lifestyle.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
Okay. Are you hoping that we steep you or are you hoping that we move on?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
What are you trying to do here?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
What is important? What are the cliff notes of founder mode? TLDR it, Johnny. What's founder mode and what was the overall takes on go time? I know Chris was kind of meh. Angelica was excited. I'm only halfway in. You seem to be in the middle.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
He's been around, man.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
All right. I think some of that assumes that you are mission oriented with the organization that you're in. For sure. Yeah. Because you can be a cog and just be there for the paycheck and you're fine with like, it's not against your morals, what they do. You think it provides some value. Obviously the marketplace appreciates it.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
That's why it's still a business, but you're just there to do your work and to do the best your ability and to be a cog and to make some money. And in that case, I think for the mission to continue, I must be let go. Like for me, that doesn't hold weight anymore because the mission is the mission. It's their mission, not my mission.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
I think in a place like Pure Charity, Adam, you were very aligned. And there are times where you are working somewhere where you're like, I totally believe in what we are doing. And so maybe there it's a bitter pill, but one that is worth swallowing because, yeah, now at least the organization isn't going to crumble. I have to go, but it will continue.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
But in cases where it's more about the money or maybe the relationships or you like the work you're doing, but you're not like, you know, it's Walmart or something where it's like, fine, it's a grocery store slash department store.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
I'm just saying, I think in that case, mission oriented matters. If you're going to have that kind of, I wouldn't have that outlook myself. I've never been laid off. I've never worked in a large organization. So I have a very, Me too.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
Yeah, always small. But I'm not exactly happy to be a cog, you know? I want to try my best to be indispensable. I want to be the person where they're like, we're laying off 20% and we can't get rid of this guy because he's too useful.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
Ego is the enemy. You don't want to be indispensable, Johnny?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
That's all fair and good. I didn't say I am indispensable. I said I want to be that. And so I don't think it's egotistical to desire to be that and to be more than a cog. Fully knowing that at the end of the day, maybe I'm still just a cog and it's already broken. So you delusion. No, not delusion. Desire. Desire. Yeah. Drive.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
Maybe I won't show up to work tomorrow.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
Yeah, I don't need, I guess I don't need the other people noticing it aspect of what you're talking about. I don't derive my self-worth from that. And so I think if I was laid off in that circumstance, if I was indispensable and they didn't know I was, then I would be like, this is a huge mistake they're making. And I would like for that to be true. Like then they go ahead and lay me off.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
I'm sure, Johnny, you've left huge holes in whatever organizations you got laid off from. And they probably didn't realize what a big mistake that was. And I think maybe even though you are a cog, in some sense, you are an indispensable cog and that organization will never be the same without you. That's what I strive for is like. Yeah, they're going to really regret this one.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
Not that they have to recognize me as the guy who fixes all the things and all that. That's not where I derive myself worth. But my desire is to be as great a teammate as I can be.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
Yeah, thank you. Well, I mean, I guess, you know, at a certain point, it's probably why I've done the things that I've done, which is I've stayed in small businesses.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
I've found, I've started or, you know, had ownership in companies that I work for because at the end of the day, that is where I thrive, I guess, in circumstances more, not as an employee for somebody else in founder mode, but I actually in, I guess, founder mode, you know, which I don't really, I try not to, I hate micromanaging people, so not that, but...
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
not like that tactical founder mode but like basically i've been at the head of businesses small bits very small businesses most of my career i have worked you know for other people as well but usually with some autonomy because uh that's where i thrive i guess probably because i have that self-driven thing going on so maybe i couldn't make it in a large org you know it's quite possible i haven't i don't have the breadth of experience you have johnny i have the same time duration but
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
i've been doing the same thing like i've done three i had the the advantage of being a contractor and so while i was my own boss i had a lot of a broad experience of like working with teams and different code bases and different businesses you get a lot of experience that way but not in like a typical nine to five engineering team i've never had a product manager right i've had kind
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
So those were like proxies for that relationship. So I don't have those kind of relationships just because I haven't had that experience that you have in so many different roles.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
So you were indispensable, man.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
And maybe the word indispensable is saying too much. I like what you just said there. Like I want to be impactful. Yeah. I want to make an impact. And when that person leaves, that impact is now a hole. And to me, that's meaningful. That means I'm bringing value in big ways. I'm a hole maker. I make some holes. Yeah, I can dig a hole, man. That's cool, though, that you got that. Yeah, man.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
I'm afraid of bears. You know, there's not many things that I'm afraid of in life, but bears is one of them. Like, I don't want to be anywhere near a bear.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
Like, hey, by the way. No, I think if that happened and you meet up with that person like Johnny did, like absolutely be the person that tells him that as long as it's true. Right. Because it does feel good to know that. And it is validating. I think there was a Google engineer recently who I don't remember that I'm fuzzy on the details, but like they either left or was laid off.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
Went and started, and they're like a machine learning guru, went and started a thing. And Google had to pay something like $2.5 billion to get them back onto the employee payroll, basically, to rehire this person. So there's some validation of like, well, that was a big mistake, right? You should have just kept me around in the first place. The details are fuzzy, so that could be.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
It's a setup. Yeah, that's even a better story. What happened to Silicon Valley? I hear that's a good show. It is a good show.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
No, but I know. Doesn't he get eaten by a bear? Not quite. Almost. Almost eaten by a bear.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
Speaking of Silicon Valley, Johnny, what's going on in Silicon Valley with these fake job postings? I mean, you've been onto this for a little while because I've heard you talking about it on GoTime, and then I covered it in news this week because there was an Ask Hacker, speaking of Paul Graham, there was an Ask HN. which was posted seven days ago, who is pretending to be hiring.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
And it turns out there's people out there with jobs that are not real jobs. I mean, what's going on, man?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
Something smells fishy here. Did you see the comment thread on that hacker news post? Because there's a lot of people validating, validating your intuition. Yeah. The top comment, now this is also anecdotal, so none of this is like journalism or anything like that. However, these are people who are working in these places. This is a person consulting with a startup in the Bay Area.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
They say, we have nine job openings listed on the website, but in reality, one position is really open and the bar is sky high. By that, I mean that the founders would hire the right person, but the other eight positions are just there for signaling, and nobody looks at the applications we get. Yikes. Yeah.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
For when I'm asked, the CEO told me to say that we are prioritizing finding the senior dev first, and that position has been open for six months. So that's the situation. I mean, that's about as clear as validation. At least one company is explicitly doing exactly what you think they're doing.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
Yeah, it's smoke and mirrors. Right. And it seems to be the reason is because it makes them look better. Right. That's what most of the people are saying on this thread is that because VCs are using, I mean, this goes back to Goodhart's Law, right? When a measure becomes known, it's no longer a good measure. Is that VCs are now looking at company health, it sounds like,
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
And they're saying, well, if the company is hiring, then that's a healthy company. And so it's an indicator of company health. And so then the company is like, oh, that's an indicator of company health. Let's act like we're hiring. Bam. Just no good candidates out there. Yeah, exactly. For the right one.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
That'd be hard because I'm pretty afraid of them already. It would solidify. How about this?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
Fake jobs. Fake jobs. I mean, seriously. So to your pendulum comment, Johnny, does the current crop of... language models stop the pendulum for the developer? Is it swinging away from us and will it continue to stay that way or is it going to swing back anyhow?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
Yes. I'm not that afraid of deer, though, Johnny. I just don't think they can organize like we can. You're giving them too much credit. They're not going to organize against us.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
Put a chip in that deer head. Yeah, well, maybe.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
I said it probably a year ago now, but I'll say it again. There's never been a better time to go buy that domain. AIrescue.io. Don't get the .io. Get the .com. Maybe that leads us into our final topic. If you want to start an AI, I remember when there was Rails Rescue companies. They were going to rescue you from your heaping pile of Rails app that your team created in a hurry and then left.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
Scaffolding. Yeah, exactly. And now they'll be like, hey, I got this unwieldy thing that was written by an LLM and I need someone to save me from this. And so, you know, get the domain now. That way the Google juice will be there when people are searching for you.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
Yeah, for sure. 100%. Well, I mentioned the .io. Let's call this chapter .io no more because due to geopolitics, I mean, this is a crazy story. It's speculation, though. It's not guaranteed. It's possible. Here's what happened. We got all these fancy TLDs. Some of them are country code TLDs that we've just co-opted to be domain hacks for our websites. One of those is called .io.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
You probably have heard of it. And that one might be going away because it was given to, it was used for the Chagos Islands. .io stands for Indian Ocean, I believe.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
And according to a piece by Gareth Edwards called The Disappearance of an Internet Domain, the British government on October 3rd announced that it was going to give sovereignty up, give it up. It has ownership, I suppose. It's giving it up to a small tropical atoll, which I'd never even heard that word before, this article.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
Apparently it's like a small island or something, a ring-shaped reef in the Indian Ocean known as the Chagos Islands. The islands would be handed over to the neighboring islands country of Mauritius. Mauritius, thank you. Apparently more well-versed in these geographies than I am. About 1,100 miles off the southeastern coast of Africa. Long story short is that IO is for Indian Ocean.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
Now it's going to be Mauritius, and .io may be going away due to some people getting some sovereignty, which is always a nice thing to have.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
Well, we already know that he almost died from a bear.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
So here's one that I have familiarity with because I thought it'd be really cool, speaking of domain hacks, to have san.to. So I went out and tried to find the .to, T-L-D, stands for Tonga. And maybe that's an eight hall. I don't know. It's a small island or a series of islands. I believe somewhere in the South Pacific. And somebody has taken san.to. They have this like small little website.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
They run it themselves, it seems. Tonga's running this website. And every year for a long time, I finally give up on it. I had a reminder to email Tonga people again and see if I could get that domain because they're not using it. They're just camping on san.to. And I really wanted it because that was back when URL shorteners were like all the rage. That would be cool.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
And having your own personalized shortener is just too cool. Yeah. So yeah, I'm well aware of countries that are running their own little registrars on their own little TLD. And so I agree with you, Johnny. I think this is a fun fact of history and an exchanging of opportunity to these people. And that's awesome for them.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
I think that they're going to have an opportunity to make a decent amount of cash just by proxying this thing to somebody else who can run it or something like that.
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The indispensable cog (Friends)
Gets smaller and smaller.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
It's no longer the British Indian Ocean. It's kind of an oxymoron, isn't it?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
Or it could be one of those websites that just says like yes or no. And like the question is like, is there still a .io domain? It just says yes. Like as long as nomoda.io responds, there's still a domain.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
We are indispensable. Oh man, that's indispensable right there.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
Yeah, no, I was going to go on to that. And I'm just like, let it go, Jared. Let it go. Tell the dad joke. No, I mean, you're a dad. I'm sure you've already gotten it.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
Good stuff. All right. Well, that is all we have for today, Johnny. This was so much fun, man.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
You coming to All Things Open, man? It's nearby. When is that? When is that?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
It's in Raleigh. You're in Baltimore.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
We've got one reserved for Johnny if he's going to come.
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The indispensable cog (Friends)
It's the new Slack. Zulup's the new Slack. Sign up today for free. Changelog.com slash community. Hop into Zulup. Say, hey, I want a free ticket. We'll hook you up as long as we have some left. It's probably less than a single hand's worth, but we'll be there.
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The indispensable cog (Friends)
We don't mess around. Have you been to All Things Open before, Johnny? No, never. Oh, it's a great one. Oh, yeah, you should be there, Johnny. It's kind of took over the OSCON. It's like the biggest open source conference. If you come, we'll buy you some steak at Sullivan's.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
Oh, there's scotch too. There's scotch involved.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
All right, Johnny's booking this.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
How would you get there?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
Oh, man, you're making it hard to say no. Why say no when it feels so good to say yes?
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The indispensable cog (Friends)
We've heard from quite a few people who are heading to all things open at the end of the month. Most of those free tickets are gone. So if you want one act now, head to changelog.com slash community and join. It's totally free. Then send yourself a Zulip invite from your changelog homepage and holla at your boy. Thanks again to Johnny for hanging out with us. Go listen to Go Time already.
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The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
Do you ever just laugh anyways? Like you don't get it, but you're like, eh, I'll laugh at this person.
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The indispensable cog (Friends)
Well, for those who don't know Johnny, he's also known as Golang Johnny. Is that right? Golang Johnny? Oh, yeah. Don't you have that website, Johnny?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
If you go to golangjohnny.com, is that what it is? Yeah. And you're going to find Johnny Borsico. Does it just redirect to your website or is it actually a website itself?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
Awesome. That's one way to get Google juice is just go ahead and buy that sucker. So you are Golang Johnny. One story that I would love for you to tell. from your perspective and ours, I think you hinted at it on GoTime 300, which was very much a look back and a look forward at GoTime's past and future.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
And you mentioned, the reason I want to bring it up here is because the three of us were involved in that, and I don't think anybody else really was, was that while you are a staple and a regular GoTime host and have been for years, you were initially cut from the ranks, right? Yeah, yeah. He didn't make the team the first time around. Talk about some perseverance.
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The indispensable cog (Friends)
Adam, you were heavily involved in that decision. You guys want to drudge this out?
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The indispensable cog (Friends)
Like not the Changelog. It was our first one. Yeah. And there were a few factors. I mean, I think very little of it was personal to Johnny. A lot of it was just the fact of like we already had three and four is a weird number of hosts. Three is a magic number. And so there was like, well, you know, there can be only three. That is a magic. It is a nice conversational magic number.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
Especially if you're going to have a guest, now you already have four. Four with a guest is like, that's just like too many cooks. And a lot of it was because Eric and Brian were the original team. And yeah, we're just like, well...