Jay Young

No, sir.

No, sir.

No, sir. Were you there when it happened? No, sir.

No, sir. Were you there when it happened? No, sir.

The second trip, he testified, was to smoke a cigar. I had to go outside to smoke the cigar. And I also wanted to look at some sports schedules and some standings, and so I wanted to see if I could pick up the USA Today as well.

The second trip, he testified, was to smoke a cigar. I had to go outside to smoke the cigar. And I also wanted to look at some sports schedules and some standings, and so I wanted to see if I could pick up the USA Today as well.

Because I wanted it to be a surprise. A surprise to Michelle means so much more than anything.

Because I wanted it to be a surprise. A surprise to Michelle means so much more than anything.

I just fell. I broke on the inside. I just broke and I didn't believe it.

I just fell. I broke on the inside. I just broke and I didn't believe it.

Ryan and Josh had said that the investigators were... asking really ugly questions and pointing their finger at me and doing things like that. And they said, you don't need to talk to anybody. You need to get a lawyer before you talk to anybody.

Ryan and Josh had said that the investigators were... asking really ugly questions and pointing their finger at me and doing things like that. And they said, you don't need to talk to anybody. You need to get a lawyer before you talk to anybody.

The lawyer that I got after talking with him, he actually advised me to not go talk to the police. Did you take that advice?

The lawyer that I got after talking with him, he actually advised me to not go talk to the police. Did you take that advice?

That's actually exactly what he said. He said, don't talk to anybody about anything.

That's actually exactly what he said. He said, don't talk to anybody about anything.

I think we both knew it was wrong. I don't think either one dreamed that it would ever be found out.

I think we both knew it was wrong. I don't think either one dreamed that it would ever be found out.

No, sir. What I did was wrong. I did pin her down and I took the ring.

No, sir. What I did was wrong. I did pin her down and I took the ring.

I was very intoxicated, but I don't feel like that's an excuse for what I did.

I was very intoxicated, but I don't feel like that's an excuse for what I did.

Yes, I did. I wanted to have another baby, and I wanted the family to grow.

Yes, I did. I wanted to have another baby, and I wanted the family to grow.

No, sir, I had... Due to the media and some of the Internet website, the job that I had, I lost it.

No, sir, I had... Due to the media and some of the Internet website, the job that I had, I lost it.

No, ma'am, that was not the way to work on a marriage. That was very detrimental.

No, ma'am, that was not the way to work on a marriage. That was very detrimental.

Michelle and I confided a lot in each other, and we talked about my issues with my wife, and she talked about her issues with her husband.

Michelle and I confided a lot in each other, and we talked about my issues with my wife, and she talked about her issues with her husband.

No, ma'am. Having the sexual intercourse and having the intimacy was... very detrimental to that.

No, ma'am. Having the sexual intercourse and having the intimacy was... very detrimental to that.

I wanted her to have it.

I wanted her to have it.

I don't remember.

I don't remember.

Why was it that you wanted to look on your laptop? I was going over the sales call that I had the next day.

Why was it that you wanted to look on your laptop? I was going over the sales call that I had the next day.

I love you, Mommy. I love you too, Cassidy.

I love you, Mommy. I love you too, Cassidy.

Hi, Andrea. Thanks for having me.

Hi, Andrea. Thanks for having me.

Well, you have that absolutely right, Andrea. We're talking about eight murder victims, four crime scenes. It's just, it boggles the mind.

Well, you have that absolutely right, Andrea. We're talking about eight murder victims, four crime scenes. It's just, it boggles the mind.

The Wagners are a large family that lives not too far away from the rodents. In fact, they were friends, by all counts, of the rodents.

The Wagners are a large family that lives not too far away from the rodents. In fact, they were friends, by all counts, of the rodents.

Jake Wagner had a relationship with... one of the children of the rodents, Hannah Mae. And together they had a child, Sophia. Jake and Hannah Mae quickly became estranged after Sophia was born. Hannah Mae moved out and took Sophia with her. Jake wasn't happy about that. Nor were the Wagners happy about that.

Jake Wagner had a relationship with... one of the children of the rodents, Hannah Mae. And together they had a child, Sophia. Jake and Hannah Mae quickly became estranged after Sophia was born. Hannah Mae moved out and took Sophia with her. Jake wasn't happy about that. Nor were the Wagners happy about that.

In the course of the investigation, investigators learned that the Wagners feared young Sophia was being abused by a member of the Rodin family. Jake testified that the Wagners decided something needed to be done. They wanted Sophia back. They decided that they would not just kill the mother of Sophia, Hannah Mae, but they were going to kill everyone else in the family.

In the course of the investigation, investigators learned that the Wagners feared young Sophia was being abused by a member of the Rodin family. Jake testified that the Wagners decided something needed to be done. They wanted Sophia back. They decided that they would not just kill the mother of Sophia, Hannah Mae, but they were going to kill everyone else in the family.

So there were no other survivors to seek retribution.

So there were no other survivors to seek retribution.

It's beyond unbelievable.

It's beyond unbelievable.

Yeah, there was really no evidence of it.

Yeah, there was really no evidence of it.

There were multiple crime scenes, but there was very little physical evidence. But they did find foot impressions in the blood. I hate to say it. They were able to determine that the footprints were from a shoe that was sold at Walmart. and they were able to determine the size.

There were multiple crime scenes, but there was very little physical evidence. But they did find foot impressions in the blood. I hate to say it. They were able to determine that the footprints were from a shoe that was sold at Walmart. and they were able to determine the size.

And lo and behold, after they conducted a search warrant on the Wagners' property, they discovered a receipt for shoes from a Walmart. And they ultimately were also able to seize the Wagners' computers. And one of the interesting things they found was a screenshot of a conversation that Hannah Mae had with someone months before the massacre. She says, the Wagners want to take custody of my child.

And lo and behold, after they conducted a search warrant on the Wagners' property, they discovered a receipt for shoes from a Walmart. And they ultimately were also able to seize the Wagners' computers. And one of the interesting things they found was a screenshot of a conversation that Hannah Mae had with someone months before the massacre. She says, the Wagners want to take custody of my child.

If they want custody, they're going to have to kill me first.

If they want custody, they're going to have to kill me first.

Well, ultimately what they were able to get from Jake Wagner is he led investigators to the location of the murder weapons on the Wagner property. That was incredibly incriminating evidence, obviously. And he outlined in great detail how the massacre unfolded.

Well, ultimately what they were able to get from Jake Wagner is he led investigators to the location of the murder weapons on the Wagner property. That was incredibly incriminating evidence, obviously. And he outlined in great detail how the massacre unfolded.

You had Angela Wagner herself and Jake Wagner.

You had Angela Wagner herself and Jake Wagner.

Yeah, the mother of one of the victims gave an incredibly impassioned victim impact statement.

Yeah, the mother of one of the victims gave an incredibly impassioned victim impact statement.

Jake Wagner did take the opportunity to speak to the Roden family. He looked at them in the eye.

Jake Wagner did take the opportunity to speak to the Roden family. He looked at them in the eye.

The victim's families present in the courtroom didn't want to hear any of it. In fact, they walked out as Jake was speaking.

The victim's families present in the courtroom didn't want to hear any of it. In fact, they walked out as Jake was speaking.

Angela was sentenced to 30 years. And for many, it was a shock to hear that Jake Wagner, who everyone anticipated would receive a life sentence without the possibility of parole, suddenly was presented with the opportunity to get parole. So he'll serve 32 years, and then he'll be eligible for parole.

Angela was sentenced to 30 years. And for many, it was a shock to hear that Jake Wagner, who everyone anticipated would receive a life sentence without the possibility of parole, suddenly was presented with the opportunity to get parole. So he'll serve 32 years, and then he'll be eligible for parole.

Well, the judge has ruled in favor of a change of venue in Billy Wagner's trial. What's happening now is that the prosecution is appealing the judge's decision.

Well, the judge has ruled in favor of a change of venue in Billy Wagner's trial. What's happening now is that the prosecution is appealing the judge's decision.

It's difficult to say, and you can just imagine how difficult this is for the victim's family. They have to endure this even longer.

It's difficult to say, and you can just imagine how difficult this is for the victim's family. They have to endure this even longer.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Hey, Andrea. How are you?

Hey, Andrea. How are you?

Well, there was a sentencing hearing. And it was up to the jury to decide whether Natalie would get a life sentence without the possibility of parole or whether they would give her mercy where she could get parole after 15 years. There were some very emotional statements from family members, including Michael's mom, Donna, and his best friend, Chris.

Well, there was a sentencing hearing. And it was up to the jury to decide whether Natalie would get a life sentence without the possibility of parole or whether they would give her mercy where she could get parole after 15 years. There were some very emotional statements from family members, including Michael's mom, Donna, and his best friend, Chris.

They came back, and quickly. It took them not much more than an hour, which may be a clue into how strong the jury thought the prosecution's case was. And Natalie was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole.

They came back, and quickly. It took them not much more than an hour, which may be a clue into how strong the jury thought the prosecution's case was. And Natalie was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole.

Last week, prosecutors in Manhattan federal court added two more alleged victims to the Transportation to Engage in Prostitution charge. The new filing accuses Combs of dangling one of the alleged victims from an apartment balcony. The indictment also charges that Combs' racketeering crimes began in 2004, not 2008, so four years earlier than previously thought, and lasted until 2022.

Last week, prosecutors in Manhattan federal court added two more alleged victims to the Transportation to Engage in Prostitution charge. The new filing accuses Combs of dangling one of the alleged victims from an apartment balcony. The indictment also charges that Combs' racketeering crimes began in 2004, not 2008, so four years earlier than previously thought, and lasted until 2022.

Well, he has denied them through his lawyer. He's set to go to trial on May 5th.

Well, he has denied them through his lawyer. He's set to go to trial on May 5th.

Yeah, one of the challenges for the prosecution in the trial was that this was a no-body case. Jay Lee had been declared dead, but they didn't know where he was. Over the weekend, human remains were found in a remote area of Carroll County.

Yeah, one of the challenges for the prosecution in the trial was that this was a no-body case. Jay Lee had been declared dead, but they didn't know where he was. Over the weekend, human remains were found in a remote area of Carroll County.

Mississippi Today reported that the remains were found with a gold necklace that had the nameplate Jay Lee on it, which matches the necklace Jay Lee wore in pictures posted to social media up to two days before his disappearance.

Mississippi Today reported that the remains were found with a gold necklace that had the nameplate Jay Lee on it, which matches the necklace Jay Lee wore in pictures posted to social media up to two days before his disappearance.

Thanks, Andrea.

Thanks, Andrea.

Thanks for having me.

Thanks for having me.

It was palpable. You know, she took the stand. She was very quiet, very reserved in how she started off and how she described her father. And she painted quite a picture.

It was palpable. You know, she took the stand. She was very quiet, very reserved in how she started off and how she described her father. And she painted quite a picture.

Well, she testified, Michael was really into bodybuilding and how he appeared. And so he was an athlete and he took supplements to increase his muscle mass. And so she talked about how she would see her dad put basically a plate out and just dump a bunch of pills onto the plate and then take them every morning.

Well, she testified, Michael was really into bodybuilding and how he appeared. And so he was an athlete and he took supplements to increase his muscle mass. And so she talked about how she would see her dad put basically a plate out and just dump a bunch of pills onto the plate and then take them every morning.

She also talked about how toward 2017, this was a couple of years before he passed, that his health wasn't great and that his health was in decline. And she painted a picture of her dad as someone who wasn't his robust self.

She also talked about how toward 2017, this was a couple of years before he passed, that his health wasn't great and that his health was in decline. And she painted a picture of her dad as someone who wasn't his robust self.

She noticed a big difference in his demeanor. She did testify about visiting him in the hospital, and this was in the fall of 2018, prior to his passing in February of 2019.

She noticed a big difference in his demeanor. She did testify about visiting him in the hospital, and this was in the fall of 2018, prior to his passing in February of 2019.

That's right. He actually testified very specifically about a time he remembers. His mom was watching something on television and his father was on a computer. And he asked his dad what he was doing. And according to the son, he said his dad told him he was working on some contracts with the company that he and Natalie had started.

That's right. He actually testified very specifically about a time he remembers. His mom was watching something on television and his father was on a computer. And he asked his dad what he was doing. And according to the son, he said his dad told him he was working on some contracts with the company that he and Natalie had started.

So that was all to indicate that his dad was very involved in the minutia of the company.

So that was all to indicate that his dad was very involved in the minutia of the company.

That's right. That's right. All along, the prosecution said the Ponzi scheme that ultimately was revealed was all Natalie's doing, and Michael had no idea what was going on.

That's right. That's right. All along, the prosecution said the Ponzi scheme that ultimately was revealed was all Natalie's doing, and Michael had no idea what was going on.

It was pretty hard to take. You know, I've seen a fair amount of crime scene photos over the years. And you heard Michael's mother sobbing after looking at the photographs. And it was a very disturbing moment, I think, for everyone in the courtroom.

It was pretty hard to take. You know, I've seen a fair amount of crime scene photos over the years. And you heard Michael's mother sobbing after looking at the photographs. And it was a very disturbing moment, I think, for everyone in the courtroom.

They concluded that the first autopsy, done seven months after Michael's passing, was in fact the correct ruling that the manner and cause of death could not be determined.

They concluded that the first autopsy, done seven months after Michael's passing, was in fact the correct ruling that the manner and cause of death could not be determined.

Yeah, she did. She basically said, look, there's very little that we can determine from Michael's autopsy.

Yeah, she did. She basically said, look, there's very little that we can determine from Michael's autopsy.

Well, I think on the part of the prosecution, they wanted to demonstrate that Natalie had a motive. And Natalie's motive was that Michael was about to uncover the Ponzi scheme that she had created. And so what she decided to do was to kill her husband. And so...

Well, I think on the part of the prosecution, they wanted to demonstrate that Natalie had a motive. And Natalie's motive was that Michael was about to uncover the Ponzi scheme that she had created. And so what she decided to do was to kill her husband. And so...

The defense tried to take the wind out of the prosecution's sail by saying, Michael knew it was a Ponzi scheme, so Natalie had no motive to kill him. And if you believe that Natalie didn't have motive, then the prosecution's case collapses.

The defense tried to take the wind out of the prosecution's sail by saying, Michael knew it was a Ponzi scheme, so Natalie had no motive to kill him. And if you believe that Natalie didn't have motive, then the prosecution's case collapses.

Yeah. I mean, I think no one knew what was going to happen. The prosecution made it very clear they had no direct evidence in this case. It was a circumstantial case. Now, they said that they had a mountain of circumstantial evidence, a blizzard of circumstantial evidence. But that was still going to be a stone that they had to get up the mountain. I think everybody was surprised at the outcome.

Yeah. I mean, I think no one knew what was going to happen. The prosecution made it very clear they had no direct evidence in this case. It was a circumstantial case. Now, they said that they had a mountain of circumstantial evidence, a blizzard of circumstantial evidence. But that was still going to be a stone that they had to get up the mountain. I think everybody was surprised at the outcome.

Thanks for having me, Andrea.

Thanks for having me, Andrea.

Well, thank you for having me, Andrea. Really appreciate it.

Well, thank you for having me, Andrea. Really appreciate it.

The theory is that Natalie was concerned that Michael had discovered the Ponzi scheme and was going to come forward and expose her.

The theory is that Natalie was concerned that Michael had discovered the Ponzi scheme and was going to come forward and expose her.

Thanks for having me.

Thanks for having me.

Let me take you back to February of 2019. Michael Cochran suddenly becomes ill. He collapses at his home. And from all accounts, he is having a seizure. Ultimately, they get Michael to a hospital. Michael is subjected to a battery test. They are able to determine that he is hypoglycemic, which means his blood sugar levels are very low, dangerously low.

Let me take you back to February of 2019. Michael Cochran suddenly becomes ill. He collapses at his home. And from all accounts, he is having a seizure. Ultimately, they get Michael to a hospital. Michael is subjected to a battery test. They are able to determine that he is hypoglycemic, which means his blood sugar levels are very low, dangerously low.

And then five days later, after he is sent to a hospice, he tragically dies.

And then five days later, after he is sent to a hospice, he tragically dies.

Yeah. The medical examiner ruled the cause of death was natural.

Yeah. The medical examiner ruled the cause of death was natural.

people start to scratch their heads a little bit about Michael's death. Michael was 38 years old and he was in pretty good shape. And unrelated to Michael's death, investigators are getting wind of some problems that are associated with Michael and Natalie's business. Investors are starting to complain a little bit, wondering what's happening to their investments.

people start to scratch their heads a little bit about Michael's death. Michael was 38 years old and he was in pretty good shape. And unrelated to Michael's death, investigators are getting wind of some problems that are associated with Michael and Natalie's business. Investors are starting to complain a little bit, wondering what's happening to their investments.

And so authorities, they start looking into this business. and then ultimately get a search warrant to search Michael and Natalie's house. And what they find was a vial of insulin in the kitchen refrigerator. And ultimately, investigators come up with a theory. Natalie poisoned Michael with insulin. Natalie was concerned that Michael had discovered

And so authorities, they start looking into this business. and then ultimately get a search warrant to search Michael and Natalie's house. And what they find was a vial of insulin in the kitchen refrigerator. And ultimately, investigators come up with a theory. Natalie poisoned Michael with insulin. Natalie was concerned that Michael had discovered

that the company was actually a fraud, was a Ponzi scheme. And Natalie was concerned Michael was going to come forward and expose her.

that the company was actually a fraud, was a Ponzi scheme. And Natalie was concerned Michael was going to come forward and expose her.

They were unable to find insulin in Michael's body when they exhumed it months later. Cut to 2023. The prosecution decides they want to exhume Michael's body again to test his remains with more sophisticated tests. And this time, the pathologist that the state hired to examine the remains ruled that Michael's manner of death was homicide.

They were unable to find insulin in Michael's body when they exhumed it months later. Cut to 2023. The prosecution decides they want to exhume Michael's body again to test his remains with more sophisticated tests. And this time, the pathologist that the state hired to examine the remains ruled that Michael's manner of death was homicide.

Now, the state went even further and had an endocrinologist review some of the paperwork. And she determined that the cause of death was most likely due to insulin injections. So there was no trace evidence of insulin.

Now, the state went even further and had an endocrinologist review some of the paperwork. And she determined that the cause of death was most likely due to insulin injections. So there was no trace evidence of insulin.

You know, Andrea, you've been through this so many times. I have, too. It's a very solemn occasion. Everybody's very quiet. Everyone is really deferential. The prospective jurors were sitting in the jury box, and then the prosecution enters, sits down at their desk, and then in comes Natalie Cochran. And you can see Natalie looking over at the prospective jurors.

You know, Andrea, you've been through this so many times. I have, too. It's a very solemn occasion. Everybody's very quiet. Everyone is really deferential. The prospective jurors were sitting in the jury box, and then the prosecution enters, sits down at their desk, and then in comes Natalie Cochran. And you can see Natalie looking over at the prospective jurors.

You can only wonder what's going through her mind.

You can only wonder what's going through her mind.

Yeah, that's exactly what the prosecution said. And by and large, the prospective jurors said, no, I'm OK. I understand that you have direct evidence and you have circumstantial evidence. And one is not more important than the other. That was the general consensus on the part of the prospective panel.

Yeah, that's exactly what the prosecution said. And by and large, the prospective jurors said, no, I'm OK. I understand that you have direct evidence and you have circumstantial evidence. And one is not more important than the other. That was the general consensus on the part of the prospective panel.

There's no question that the prosecution has to work with a case that does not have direct evidence. But what they do have is a defendant who is a convicted felon serving 11 years. And if she can defraud her family, loved ones, investors, there's no telling what she can do. That's going to be their argument.

There's no question that the prosecution has to work with a case that does not have direct evidence. But what they do have is a defendant who is a convicted felon serving 11 years. And if she can defraud her family, loved ones, investors, there's no telling what she can do. That's going to be their argument.

They argue Michael was well aware of the fraudulent nature of the business. So Natalie would have no reason to want to kill him.

They argue Michael was well aware of the fraudulent nature of the business. So Natalie would have no reason to want to kill him.

Hi, Andrea. Thanks for having me.

Hi, Andrea. Thanks for having me.

Well, you have that absolutely right, Andrea. We're talking about eight murder victims, four crime scenes. It's just, it boggles the mind.

Well, you have that absolutely right, Andrea. We're talking about eight murder victims, four crime scenes. It's just, it boggles the mind.

The Wagners are a large family that lives not too far away from the rodents. In fact, they were friends, by all counts, of the rodents.

The Wagners are a large family that lives not too far away from the rodents. In fact, they were friends, by all counts, of the rodents.

Jake Wagner had a relationship with... one of the children of the rodents, Hannah Mae. And together they had a child, Sophia. Jake and Hannah Mae quickly became estranged after Sophia was born. Hannah Mae moved out and took Sophia with her. Jake wasn't happy about that. Nor were the Wagners happy about that.

Jake Wagner had a relationship with... one of the children of the rodents, Hannah Mae. And together they had a child, Sophia. Jake and Hannah Mae quickly became estranged after Sophia was born. Hannah Mae moved out and took Sophia with her. Jake wasn't happy about that. Nor were the Wagners happy about that.

In the course of the investigation, investigators learned that the Wagners feared young Sophia was being abused by a member of the Rodin family. Jake testified that the Wagners decided something needed to be done. They wanted Sophia back. They decided that they would not just kill the mother of Sophia, Hannah Mae, but they were going to kill everyone else in the family.

In the course of the investigation, investigators learned that the Wagners feared young Sophia was being abused by a member of the Rodin family. Jake testified that the Wagners decided something needed to be done. They wanted Sophia back. They decided that they would not just kill the mother of Sophia, Hannah Mae, but they were going to kill everyone else in the family.

So there were no other survivors to seek retribution.

So there were no other survivors to seek retribution.

It's beyond unbelievable.

It's beyond unbelievable.

Yeah, there was really no evidence of it.

Yeah, there was really no evidence of it.

There were multiple crime scenes, but there was very little physical evidence. But they did find foot impressions in the blood. I hate to say it. They were able to determine that the footprints were from a shoe that was sold at Walmart. and they were able to determine the size.

There were multiple crime scenes, but there was very little physical evidence. But they did find foot impressions in the blood. I hate to say it. They were able to determine that the footprints were from a shoe that was sold at Walmart. and they were able to determine the size.

And lo and behold, after they conducted a search warrant on the Wagners' property, they discovered a receipt for shoes from a Walmart. And they ultimately were also able to seize the Wagners' computers. And one of the interesting things they found was a screenshot of a conversation that Hannah Mae had with someone months before the massacre. She says, the Wagners want to take custody of my child.

And lo and behold, after they conducted a search warrant on the Wagners' property, they discovered a receipt for shoes from a Walmart. And they ultimately were also able to seize the Wagners' computers. And one of the interesting things they found was a screenshot of a conversation that Hannah Mae had with someone months before the massacre. She says, the Wagners want to take custody of my child.

If they want custody, they're going to have to kill me first.

If they want custody, they're going to have to kill me first.

Well, ultimately what they were able to get from Jake Wagner is he led investigators to the location of the murder weapons on the Wagner property. That was incredibly incriminating evidence, obviously. And he outlined in great detail how the massacre unfolded.

Well, ultimately what they were able to get from Jake Wagner is he led investigators to the location of the murder weapons on the Wagner property. That was incredibly incriminating evidence, obviously. And he outlined in great detail how the massacre unfolded.

You had Angela Wagner herself and Jake Wagner.

You had Angela Wagner herself and Jake Wagner.

Yeah, the mother of one of the victims gave an incredibly impassioned victim impact statement.

Yeah, the mother of one of the victims gave an incredibly impassioned victim impact statement.

Jake Wagner did take the opportunity to speak to the Roden family. He looked at them in the eye.

Jake Wagner did take the opportunity to speak to the Roden family. He looked at them in the eye.

The victim's families present in the courtroom didn't want to hear any of it. In fact, they walked out as Jake was speaking.

The victim's families present in the courtroom didn't want to hear any of it. In fact, they walked out as Jake was speaking.

Angela was sentenced to 30 years. And for many, it was a shock to hear that Jake Wagner, who everyone anticipated would receive a life sentence without the possibility of parole, suddenly was presented with the opportunity to get parole. So he'll serve 32 years, and then he'll be eligible for parole.

Angela was sentenced to 30 years. And for many, it was a shock to hear that Jake Wagner, who everyone anticipated would receive a life sentence without the possibility of parole, suddenly was presented with the opportunity to get parole. So he'll serve 32 years, and then he'll be eligible for parole.

Well, the judge has ruled in favor of a change of venue in Billy Wagner's trial. What's happening now is that the prosecution is appealing the judge's decision.

Well, the judge has ruled in favor of a change of venue in Billy Wagner's trial. What's happening now is that the prosecution is appealing the judge's decision.

It's difficult to say, and you can just imagine how difficult this is for the victim's family. They have to endure this even longer.

It's difficult to say, and you can just imagine how difficult this is for the victim's family. They have to endure this even longer.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Hey, Andrea. How are you?

Hey, Andrea. How are you?

Well, there was a sentencing hearing. And it was up to the jury to decide whether Natalie would get a life sentence without the possibility of parole or whether they would give her mercy where she could get parole after 15 years. There were some very emotional statements from family members, including Michael's mom, Donna, and his best friend, Chris.

Well, there was a sentencing hearing. And it was up to the jury to decide whether Natalie would get a life sentence without the possibility of parole or whether they would give her mercy where she could get parole after 15 years. There were some very emotional statements from family members, including Michael's mom, Donna, and his best friend, Chris.

They came back, and quickly. It took them not much more than an hour, which may be a clue into how strong the jury thought the prosecution's case was. And Natalie was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole.

They came back, and quickly. It took them not much more than an hour, which may be a clue into how strong the jury thought the prosecution's case was. And Natalie was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole.

Last week, prosecutors in Manhattan federal court added two more alleged victims to the Transportation to Engage in Prostitution charge. The new filing accuses Combs of dangling one of the alleged victims from an apartment balcony. The indictment also charges that Combs' racketeering crimes began in 2004, not 2008, so four years earlier than previously thought, and lasted until 2022.

Last week, prosecutors in Manhattan federal court added two more alleged victims to the Transportation to Engage in Prostitution charge. The new filing accuses Combs of dangling one of the alleged victims from an apartment balcony. The indictment also charges that Combs' racketeering crimes began in 2004, not 2008, so four years earlier than previously thought, and lasted until 2022.

Well, he has denied them through his lawyer. He's set to go to trial on May 5th.

Well, he has denied them through his lawyer. He's set to go to trial on May 5th.

Yeah, one of the challenges for the prosecution in the trial was that this was a no-body case. Jay Lee had been declared dead, but they didn't know where he was. Over the weekend, human remains were found in a remote area of Carroll County.

Yeah, one of the challenges for the prosecution in the trial was that this was a no-body case. Jay Lee had been declared dead, but they didn't know where he was. Over the weekend, human remains were found in a remote area of Carroll County.

Mississippi Today reported that the remains were found with a gold necklace that had the nameplate Jay Lee on it, which matches the necklace Jay Lee wore in pictures posted to social media up to two days before his disappearance.

Mississippi Today reported that the remains were found with a gold necklace that had the nameplate Jay Lee on it, which matches the necklace Jay Lee wore in pictures posted to social media up to two days before his disappearance.

Thanks, Andrea.

Thanks, Andrea.

Thanks for having me.

Thanks for having me.

It was palpable. You know, she took the stand. She was very quiet, very reserved in how she started off and how she described her father. And she painted quite a picture.

It was palpable. You know, she took the stand. She was very quiet, very reserved in how she started off and how she described her father. And she painted quite a picture.

Well, she testified, Michael was really into bodybuilding and how he appeared. And so he was an athlete and he took supplements to increase his muscle mass. And so she talked about how she would see her dad put basically a plate out and just dump a bunch of pills onto the plate and then take them every morning.

Well, she testified, Michael was really into bodybuilding and how he appeared. And so he was an athlete and he took supplements to increase his muscle mass. And so she talked about how she would see her dad put basically a plate out and just dump a bunch of pills onto the plate and then take them every morning.

She also talked about how toward 2017, this was a couple of years before he passed, that his health wasn't great and that his health was in decline. And she painted a picture of her dad as someone who wasn't his robust self.

She also talked about how toward 2017, this was a couple of years before he passed, that his health wasn't great and that his health was in decline. And she painted a picture of her dad as someone who wasn't his robust self.

She noticed a big difference in his demeanor. She did testify about visiting him in the hospital, and this was in the fall of 2018, prior to his passing in February of 2019.

She noticed a big difference in his demeanor. She did testify about visiting him in the hospital, and this was in the fall of 2018, prior to his passing in February of 2019.

That's right. He actually testified very specifically about a time he remembers. His mom was watching something on television and his father was on a computer. And he asked his dad what he was doing. And according to the son, he said his dad told him he was working on some contracts with the company that he and Natalie had started.

That's right. He actually testified very specifically about a time he remembers. His mom was watching something on television and his father was on a computer. And he asked his dad what he was doing. And according to the son, he said his dad told him he was working on some contracts with the company that he and Natalie had started.

So that was all to indicate that his dad was very involved in the minutia of the company.

So that was all to indicate that his dad was very involved in the minutia of the company.

That's right. That's right. All along, the prosecution said the Ponzi scheme that ultimately was revealed was all Natalie's doing, and Michael had no idea what was going on.

That's right. That's right. All along, the prosecution said the Ponzi scheme that ultimately was revealed was all Natalie's doing, and Michael had no idea what was going on.

Oh.

Oh.

It was pretty hard to take. You know, I've seen a fair amount of crime scene photos over the years. And you heard Michael's mother sobbing after looking at the photographs. And it was a very disturbing moment, I think, for everyone in the courtroom.

It was pretty hard to take. You know, I've seen a fair amount of crime scene photos over the years. And you heard Michael's mother sobbing after looking at the photographs. And it was a very disturbing moment, I think, for everyone in the courtroom.

They concluded that the first autopsy, done seven months after Michael's passing, was in fact the correct ruling that the manner and cause of death could not be determined.

They concluded that the first autopsy, done seven months after Michael's passing, was in fact the correct ruling that the manner and cause of death could not be determined.

Yeah, she did. She basically said, look, there's very little that we can determine from Michael's autopsy.

Yeah, she did. She basically said, look, there's very little that we can determine from Michael's autopsy.

Well, I think on the part of the prosecution, they wanted to demonstrate that Natalie had a motive. And Natalie's motive was that Michael was about to uncover the Ponzi scheme that she had created. And so what she decided to do was to kill her husband. And so...

Well, I think on the part of the prosecution, they wanted to demonstrate that Natalie had a motive. And Natalie's motive was that Michael was about to uncover the Ponzi scheme that she had created. And so what she decided to do was to kill her husband. And so...

The defense tried to take the wind out of the prosecution's sail by saying, Michael knew it was a Ponzi scheme, so Natalie had no motive to kill him. And if you believe that Natalie didn't have motive, then the prosecution's case collapses.

The defense tried to take the wind out of the prosecution's sail by saying, Michael knew it was a Ponzi scheme, so Natalie had no motive to kill him. And if you believe that Natalie didn't have motive, then the prosecution's case collapses.

Yeah. I mean, I think no one knew what was going to happen. The prosecution made it very clear they had no direct evidence in this case. It was a circumstantial case. Now, they said that they had a mountain of circumstantial evidence, a blizzard of circumstantial evidence. But that was still going to be a stone that they had to get up the mountain. I think everybody was surprised at the outcome.

Yeah. I mean, I think no one knew what was going to happen. The prosecution made it very clear they had no direct evidence in this case. It was a circumstantial case. Now, they said that they had a mountain of circumstantial evidence, a blizzard of circumstantial evidence. But that was still going to be a stone that they had to get up the mountain. I think everybody was surprised at the outcome.

Thanks for having me, Andrea.

Thanks for having me, Andrea.

Well, thank you for having me, Andrea. Really appreciate it.

Well, thank you for having me, Andrea. Really appreciate it.

The theory is that Natalie was concerned that Michael had discovered the Ponzi scheme and was going to come forward and expose her.

The theory is that Natalie was concerned that Michael had discovered the Ponzi scheme and was going to come forward and expose her.

Thanks for having me.

Thanks for having me.

Let me take you back to February of 2019. Michael Cochran suddenly becomes ill. He collapses at his home. And from all accounts, he is having a seizure. Ultimately, they get Michael to a hospital. Michael is subjected to a battery test. They are able to determine that he is hypoglycemic, which means his blood sugar levels are very low, dangerously low.

Let me take you back to February of 2019. Michael Cochran suddenly becomes ill. He collapses at his home. And from all accounts, he is having a seizure. Ultimately, they get Michael to a hospital. Michael is subjected to a battery test. They are able to determine that he is hypoglycemic, which means his blood sugar levels are very low, dangerously low.

And then five days later, after he is sent to a hospice, he tragically dies.

And then five days later, after he is sent to a hospice, he tragically dies.

Yeah. The medical examiner ruled the cause of death was natural.

Yeah. The medical examiner ruled the cause of death was natural.

people start to scratch their heads a little bit about Michael's death. Michael was 38 years old and he was in pretty good shape. And unrelated to Michael's death, investigators are getting wind of some problems that are associated with Michael and Natalie's business. Investors are starting to complain a little bit, wondering what's happening to their investments.

people start to scratch their heads a little bit about Michael's death. Michael was 38 years old and he was in pretty good shape. And unrelated to Michael's death, investigators are getting wind of some problems that are associated with Michael and Natalie's business. Investors are starting to complain a little bit, wondering what's happening to their investments.

And so authorities, they start looking into this business. and then ultimately get a search warrant to search Michael and Natalie's house. And what they find was a vial of insulin in the kitchen refrigerator. And ultimately, investigators come up with a theory. Natalie poisoned Michael with insulin. Natalie was concerned that Michael had discovered

And so authorities, they start looking into this business. and then ultimately get a search warrant to search Michael and Natalie's house. And what they find was a vial of insulin in the kitchen refrigerator. And ultimately, investigators come up with a theory. Natalie poisoned Michael with insulin. Natalie was concerned that Michael had discovered

that the company was actually a fraud, was a Ponzi scheme. And Natalie was concerned Michael was going to come forward and expose her.

that the company was actually a fraud, was a Ponzi scheme. And Natalie was concerned Michael was going to come forward and expose her.

They were unable to find insulin in Michael's body when they exhumed it months later. Cut to 2023. The prosecution decides they want to exhume Michael's body again to test his remains with more sophisticated tests. And this time, the pathologist that the state hired to examine the remains ruled that Michael's manner of death was homicide.

They were unable to find insulin in Michael's body when they exhumed it months later. Cut to 2023. The prosecution decides they want to exhume Michael's body again to test his remains with more sophisticated tests. And this time, the pathologist that the state hired to examine the remains ruled that Michael's manner of death was homicide.

Now, the state went even further and had an endocrinologist review some of the paperwork. And she determined that the cause of death was most likely due to insulin injections. So there was no trace evidence of insulin.

Now, the state went even further and had an endocrinologist review some of the paperwork. And she determined that the cause of death was most likely due to insulin injections. So there was no trace evidence of insulin.

You know, Andrea, you've been through this so many times. I have, too. It's a very solemn occasion. Everybody's very quiet. Everyone is really deferential. The prospective jurors were sitting in the jury box, and then the prosecution enters, sits down at their desk, and then in comes Natalie Cochran. And you can see Natalie looking over at the prospective jurors.

You know, Andrea, you've been through this so many times. I have, too. It's a very solemn occasion. Everybody's very quiet. Everyone is really deferential. The prospective jurors were sitting in the jury box, and then the prosecution enters, sits down at their desk, and then in comes Natalie Cochran. And you can see Natalie looking over at the prospective jurors.

You can only wonder what's going through her mind.

You can only wonder what's going through her mind.

Yeah, that's exactly what the prosecution said. And by and large, the prospective jurors said, no, I'm OK. I understand that you have direct evidence and you have circumstantial evidence. And one is not more important than the other. That was the general consensus on the part of the prospective panel.

Yeah, that's exactly what the prosecution said. And by and large, the prospective jurors said, no, I'm OK. I understand that you have direct evidence and you have circumstantial evidence. And one is not more important than the other. That was the general consensus on the part of the prospective panel.

There's no question that the prosecution has to work with a case that does not have direct evidence. But what they do have is a defendant who is a convicted felon serving 11 years. And if she can defraud her family, loved ones, investors, there's no telling what she can do. That's going to be their argument.

There's no question that the prosecution has to work with a case that does not have direct evidence. But what they do have is a defendant who is a convicted felon serving 11 years. And if she can defraud her family, loved ones, investors, there's no telling what she can do. That's going to be their argument.

They argue Michael was well aware of the fraudulent nature of the business. So Natalie would have no reason to want to kill him.

They argue Michael was well aware of the fraudulent nature of the business. So Natalie would have no reason to want to kill him.

Hey, Andrea. How are you?

Well, there was a sentencing hearing. And it was up to the jury to decide whether Natalie would get a life sentence without the possibility of parole or whether they would give her mercy where she could get parole after 15 years. There were some very emotional statements from family members, including Michael's mom, Donna, and his best friend, Chris.

They came back, and quickly. It took them not much more than an hour, which may be a clue into how strong the jury thought the prosecution's case was. And Natalie was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole.

Last week, prosecutors in Manhattan federal court added two more alleged victims to the Transportation to Engage in Prostitution charge. The new filing accuses Combs of dangling one of the alleged victims from an apartment balcony. The indictment also charges that Combs' racketeering crimes began in 2004, not 2008, so four years earlier than previously thought, and lasted until 2022.

Well, he has denied them through his lawyer. He's set to go to trial on May 5th.

Yeah, one of the challenges for the prosecution in the trial was that this was a no-body case. Jay Lee had been declared dead, but they didn't know where he was. Over the weekend, human remains were found in a remote area of Carroll County.

Mississippi Today reported that the remains were found with a gold necklace that had the nameplate Jay Lee on it, which matches the necklace Jay Lee wore in pictures posted to social media up to two days before his disappearance.

Thanks, Andrea.

Thanks for having me.

It was palpable. You know, she took the stand. She was very quiet, very reserved in how she started off and how she described her father. And she painted quite a picture.

Well, she testified, Michael was really into bodybuilding and how he appeared. And so he was an athlete and he took supplements to increase his muscle mass. And so she talked about how she would see her dad put basically a plate out and just dump a bunch of pills onto the plate and then take them every morning.

She also talked about how toward 2017, this was a couple of years before he passed, that his health wasn't great and that his health was in decline. And she painted a picture of her dad as someone who wasn't his robust self.

She noticed a big difference in his demeanor. She did testify about visiting him in the hospital, and this was in the fall of 2018, prior to his passing in February of 2019.

That's right. He actually testified very specifically about a time he remembers. His mom was watching something on television and his father was on a computer. And he asked his dad what he was doing. And according to the son, he said his dad told him he was working on some contracts with the company that he and Natalie had started.

So that was all to indicate that his dad was very involved in the minutia of the company.

That's right. That's right. All along, the prosecution said the Ponzi scheme that ultimately was revealed was all Natalie's doing, and Michael had no idea what was going on.

Oh.

It was pretty hard to take. You know, I've seen a fair amount of crime scene photos over the years. And you heard Michael's mother sobbing after looking at the photographs. And it was a very disturbing moment, I think, for everyone in the courtroom.

They concluded that the first autopsy, done seven months after Michael's passing, was in fact the correct ruling that the manner and cause of death could not be determined.

Yeah, she did. She basically said, look, there's very little that we can determine from Michael's autopsy.

Well, I think on the part of the prosecution, they wanted to demonstrate that Natalie had a motive. And Natalie's motive was that Michael was about to uncover the Ponzi scheme that she had created. And so what she decided to do was to kill her husband. And so...

The defense tried to take the wind out of the prosecution's sail by saying, Michael knew it was a Ponzi scheme, so Natalie had no motive to kill him. And if you believe that Natalie didn't have motive, then the prosecution's case collapses.

Yeah. I mean, I think no one knew what was going to happen. The prosecution made it very clear they had no direct evidence in this case. It was a circumstantial case. Now, they said that they had a mountain of circumstantial evidence, a blizzard of circumstantial evidence. But that was still going to be a stone that they had to get up the mountain. I think everybody was surprised at the outcome.

Thanks for having me, Andrea.

Well, thank you for having me, Andrea. Really appreciate it.

The theory is that Natalie was concerned that Michael had discovered the Ponzi scheme and was going to come forward and expose her.

Thanks for having me.

Let me take you back to February of 2019. Michael Cochran suddenly becomes ill. He collapses at his home. And from all accounts, he is having a seizure. Ultimately, they get Michael to a hospital. Michael is subjected to a battery test. They are able to determine that he is hypoglycemic, which means his blood sugar levels are very low, dangerously low.

And then five days later, after he is sent to a hospice, he tragically dies.

Yeah. The medical examiner ruled the cause of death was natural.

people start to scratch their heads a little bit about Michael's death. Michael was 38 years old and he was in pretty good shape. And unrelated to Michael's death, investigators are getting wind of some problems that are associated with Michael and Natalie's business. Investors are starting to complain a little bit, wondering what's happening to their investments.

And so authorities, they start looking into this business. and then ultimately get a search warrant to search Michael and Natalie's house. And what they find was a vial of insulin in the kitchen refrigerator. And ultimately, investigators come up with a theory. Natalie poisoned Michael with insulin. Natalie was concerned that Michael had discovered

that the company was actually a fraud, was a Ponzi scheme. And Natalie was concerned Michael was going to come forward and expose her.

They were unable to find insulin in Michael's body when they exhumed it months later. Cut to 2023. The prosecution decides they want to exhume Michael's body again to test his remains with more sophisticated tests. And this time, the pathologist that the state hired to examine the remains ruled that Michael's manner of death was homicide.

Now, the state went even further and had an endocrinologist review some of the paperwork. And she determined that the cause of death was most likely due to insulin injections. So there was no trace evidence of insulin.

You know, Andrea, you've been through this so many times. I have, too. It's a very solemn occasion. Everybody's very quiet. Everyone is really deferential. The prospective jurors were sitting in the jury box, and then the prosecution enters, sits down at their desk, and then in comes Natalie Cochran. And you can see Natalie looking over at the prospective jurors.

You can only wonder what's going through her mind.

Yeah, that's exactly what the prosecution said. And by and large, the prospective jurors said, no, I'm OK. I understand that you have direct evidence and you have circumstantial evidence. And one is not more important than the other. That was the general consensus on the part of the prospective panel.

There's no question that the prosecution has to work with a case that does not have direct evidence. But what they do have is a defendant who is a convicted felon serving 11 years. And if she can defraud her family, loved ones, investors, there's no telling what she can do. That's going to be their argument.

They argue Michael was well aware of the fraudulent nature of the business. So Natalie would have no reason to want to kill him.

Hi, Andrea. Thanks for having me.

Well, you have that absolutely right, Andrea. We're talking about eight murder victims, four crime scenes. It's just, it boggles the mind.

The Wagners are a large family that lives not too far away from the rodents. In fact, they were friends, by all counts, of the rodents.

Jake Wagner had a relationship with... one of the children of the rodents, Hannah Mae. And together they had a child, Sophia. Jake and Hannah Mae quickly became estranged after Sophia was born. Hannah Mae moved out and took Sophia with her. Jake wasn't happy about that. Nor were the Wagners happy about that.

In the course of the investigation, investigators learned that the Wagners feared young Sophia was being abused by a member of the Rodin family. Jake testified that the Wagners decided something needed to be done. They wanted Sophia back. They decided that they would not just kill the mother of Sophia, Hannah Mae, but they were going to kill everyone else in the family.

So there were no other survivors to seek retribution.

It's beyond unbelievable.

Yeah, there was really no evidence of it.

There were multiple crime scenes, but there was very little physical evidence. But they did find foot impressions in the blood. I hate to say it. They were able to determine that the footprints were from a shoe that was sold at Walmart. and they were able to determine the size.

And lo and behold, after they conducted a search warrant on the Wagners' property, they discovered a receipt for shoes from a Walmart. And they ultimately were also able to seize the Wagners' computers. And one of the interesting things they found was a screenshot of a conversation that Hannah Mae had with someone months before the massacre. She says, the Wagners want to take custody of my child.

If they want custody, they're going to have to kill me first.

Well, ultimately what they were able to get from Jake Wagner is he led investigators to the location of the murder weapons on the Wagner property. That was incredibly incriminating evidence, obviously. And he outlined in great detail how the massacre unfolded.

You had Angela Wagner herself and Jake Wagner.

Yeah, the mother of one of the victims gave an incredibly impassioned victim impact statement.

Jake Wagner did take the opportunity to speak to the Roden family. He looked at them in the eye.

The victim's families present in the courtroom didn't want to hear any of it. In fact, they walked out as Jake was speaking.

Angela was sentenced to 30 years. And for many, it was a shock to hear that Jake Wagner, who everyone anticipated would receive a life sentence without the possibility of parole, suddenly was presented with the opportunity to get parole. So he'll serve 32 years, and then he'll be eligible for parole.

Well, the judge has ruled in favor of a change of venue in Billy Wagner's trial. What's happening now is that the prosecution is appealing the judge's decision.

It's difficult to say, and you can just imagine how difficult this is for the victim's family. They have to endure this even longer.

Thank you.