Jay Inslee

Thank you.

Thank you.

Well, the last 100 days of the Trump administration, it actually feels like a thousand days. So I feel like I've had a thousand days under my under my my shirt.

Well, the last 100 days of the Trump administration, it actually feels like a thousand days. So I feel like I've had a thousand days under my under my my shirt.

Correct me if I'm wrong. Yeah, I was three terms and then 17 years in Congress and four in state legislature. So I had three good decades of public service. But I must I must push back against you saying I'm retired. I don't feel like not. Do not want to retire. I'm still in the game. I'm working with Climate Power to let people know about the science of climate.

Correct me if I'm wrong. Yeah, I was three terms and then 17 years in Congress and four in state legislature. So I had three good decades of public service. But I must I must push back against you saying I'm retired. I don't feel like not. Do not want to retire. I'm still in the game. I'm working with Climate Power to let people know about the science of climate.

I'm working on some gun safety issue with the Alliance for Gun Responsibility. I'm trying to stir the masses. I just had a piece in The Guardian I printed saying we've got to wake up and smell the roses to push back. So I really feel the same degree of lust for the fight.

I'm working on some gun safety issue with the Alliance for Gun Responsibility. I'm trying to stir the masses. I just had a piece in The Guardian I printed saying we've got to wake up and smell the roses to push back. So I really feel the same degree of lust for the fight.

Well, I was a bit of a rebel as governor. I kind of did what I wanted to do because it was in the interest of Washingtonians. So I really did not feel constrained. And I think actually, to some degree, that was a little bit of the strength that I brought to the table because I was willing to push boundaries.

Well, I was a bit of a rebel as governor. I kind of did what I wanted to do because it was in the interest of Washingtonians. So I really did not feel constrained. And I think actually, to some degree, that was a little bit of the strength that I brought to the table because I was willing to push boundaries.

And, you know, on issues like health care and climate change and a more progressive tax system. And we we had a lot of positive change in 12 years because I didn't approach the job as feeling constrained. I always felt it was my job to raise the state's ambitions and not be constrained by forces of the status quo or economic power. And so, no, I I'm unconstrained now.

And, you know, on issues like health care and climate change and a more progressive tax system. And we we had a lot of positive change in 12 years because I didn't approach the job as feeling constrained. I always felt it was my job to raise the state's ambitions and not be constrained by forces of the status quo or economic power. And so, no, I I'm unconstrained now.

I was fairly unconstrained then. And some people were not happy with that, by the way.

I was fairly unconstrained then. And some people were not happy with that, by the way.

Well, I do think that executives have a couple of different approaches. Some say, look, I'm just going to try to bank as much political capital as I can and not ruffle the waters as little as I can. And that's my route to popularity. That was not my route. I always felt that I wanted to push the envelope of positive change. And when you mentioned incrementalism, I think it's interesting.

Well, I do think that executives have a couple of different approaches. Some say, look, I'm just going to try to bank as much political capital as I can and not ruffle the waters as little as I can. And that's my route to popularity. That was not my route. I always felt that I wanted to push the envelope of positive change. And when you mentioned incrementalism, I think it's interesting.

I think we did reach the right pace of that. As evidence, we had three of my major advances were challenged at the ballot box last November with a referendum to repeal them. Best climate change policies in the country are a capital gains tax and our first in the nation long-term care plan, which we're very proud of. We're actually the first state to have a long-term care plan for people

I think we did reach the right pace of that. As evidence, we had three of my major advances were challenged at the ballot box last November with a referendum to repeal them. Best climate change policies in the country are a capital gains tax and our first in the nation long-term care plan, which we're very proud of. We're actually the first state to have a long-term care plan for people

We know the silver tsunami is coming. And there was an effort by the forces of reaction to repeal all of those. And we won those going away like 60, 38.

We know the silver tsunami is coming. And there was an effort by the forces of reaction to repeal all of those. And we won those going away like 60, 38.

Certainly it is if you win.

Certainly it is if you win.

If you win, then it is much better. No, these were resounding victories. You know, like our Climate Commitment Act has raised several billion dollars. It restrains carbon. And we won 62 to 38. That was, you know, that's a big margin.

If you win, then it is much better. No, these were resounding victories. You know, like our Climate Commitment Act has raised several billion dollars. It restrains carbon. And we won 62 to 38. That was, you know, that's a big margin.

That's a big landslide. And so that made sure there were no attacks in the legislature this last session, even though there were fiscal strains on the state, there were no attacks to siphon that money off or degrade the revenue associated with it. Same with our long-term care plan, same with our capital gains tax. So yes, it did solidify them.

That's a big landslide. And so that made sure there were no attacks in the legislature this last session, even though there were fiscal strains on the state, there were no attacks to siphon that money off or degrade the revenue associated with it. Same with our long-term care plan, same with our capital gains tax. So yes, it did solidify them.

And, you know, it was I guess what I'm pointing out is you're right. You have to pick a pace of change. Fortunately, I think we picked the right pace. We're with in tune with the hearts of Washington state. And and I hope other states will follow us.

And, you know, it was I guess what I'm pointing out is you're right. You have to pick a pace of change. Fortunately, I think we picked the right pace. We're with in tune with the hearts of Washington state. And and I hope other states will follow us.

Of course not. No, that's of course not. But, you know, people sometimes will not get involved in the charge unless there is a bugle blown. And we blew the bugle, said here's a way to identify these issues. And I think what we found, if you look at the history of

Of course not. No, that's of course not. But, you know, people sometimes will not get involved in the charge unless there is a bugle blown. And we blew the bugle, said here's a way to identify these issues. And I think what we found, if you look at the history of

since I've been alive, these things are so incredibly contentious until the day after they're resolved and people start to see the benefits. So our Climate Commitment Act, you know, it was very contentious when we passed it in 2019, 2020. Tell me how it works.

since I've been alive, these things are so incredibly contentious until the day after they're resolved and people start to see the benefits. So our Climate Commitment Act, you know, it was very contentious when we passed it in 2019, 2020. Tell me how it works.

What it does, it stands up a provision that will help meet our carbon reduction goals. We have a goal of 100% clean electricity. That's in law. And this creates a mechanism to assure that we reduce carbon both in our utility grid and in our transportation and in our industrial sector.

What it does, it stands up a provision that will help meet our carbon reduction goals. We have a goal of 100% clean electricity. That's in law. And this creates a mechanism to assure that we reduce carbon both in our utility grid and in our transportation and in our industrial sector.

So what it does is it sets an absolute cap, an absolute limit on pollution of these toxic materials in the state of Washington. And it forces the polluting industries to purchase a credit against that total amount. And we only sell enough credits to go to that total amount. So they have to pay to pollute. The first principle of it, the polluters have to pay for their pollution.

So what it does is it sets an absolute cap, an absolute limit on pollution of these toxic materials in the state of Washington. And it forces the polluting industries to purchase a credit against that total amount. And we only sell enough credits to go to that total amount. So they have to pay to pollute. The first principle of it, the polluters have to pay for their pollution.

And that's a very important concept because, you know, when you go to the garbage dump, you got to pay, you know, 15 bucks, 20 bucks to dump your garbage.

And that's a very important concept because, you know, when you go to the garbage dump, you got to pay, you know, 15 bucks, 20 bucks to dump your garbage.

Exactly. Well, for too long, though, we've allowed polluting industries to treat the atmosphere like a big garbage dump for free. Well, guess what? If it's for free, guess what people do? They dump their garbage in our only atmosphere that is now putting a blanket of carbon dioxide around the earth.

Exactly. Well, for too long, though, we've allowed polluting industries to treat the atmosphere like a big garbage dump for free. Well, guess what? If it's for free, guess what people do? They dump their garbage in our only atmosphere that is now putting a blanket of carbon dioxide around the earth.

Well, the best answer to those concerns is experience. And our experience has been wholly positive in that regard. We are building clean energy jobs like crazy in Washington State. I've permitted probably the biggest wind turbine farm in the western United States. I've permitted quite a number of solar farms. We have two of the most advanced battery companies in the world today.

Well, the best answer to those concerns is experience. And our experience has been wholly positive in that regard. We are building clean energy jobs like crazy in Washington State. I've permitted probably the biggest wind turbine farm in the western United States. I've permitted quite a number of solar farms. We have two of the most advanced battery companies in the world today.

Well, let's talk about which nukes we're talking about because it's an important distinction. All nukes are not created equal. Number one, I'm very excited about fusion energy. As you know, fusion energy is not fission energy. It has essentially no nuclear waste. It just uses water. It's a limited supply.

Well, let's talk about which nukes we're talking about because it's an important distinction. All nukes are not created equal. Number one, I'm very excited about fusion energy. As you know, fusion energy is not fission energy. It has essentially no nuclear waste. It just uses water. It's a limited supply.

And one of the first 50 megawatt plants in the world may start construction in Washington state if things go well next year. Now, that's not a guaranteed technology. There's still a lot of work to be done on that, but they're actually starting potentially construction next year. That is an amazing achievement. If fusion pays off, that's like the holy grail. A lot of people have

And one of the first 50 megawatt plants in the world may start construction in Washington state if things go well next year. Now, that's not a guaranteed technology. There's still a lot of work to be done on that, but they're actually starting potentially construction next year. That is an amazing achievement. If fusion pays off, that's like the holy grail. A lot of people have

I have skepticism about it, but I'll tell you there's some really good investors who are investing in this, and I'm glad we're moving forward. On small modular reactors, the question is, can they be built to reduce the amount of risk of any problem at a reasonable price? That's a question that remains to be seen. We did have a proposal here.

I have skepticism about it, but I'll tell you there's some really good investors who are investing in this, and I'm glad we're moving forward. On small modular reactors, the question is, can they be built to reduce the amount of risk of any problem at a reasonable price? That's a question that remains to be seen. We did have a proposal here.

It fell apart just because of cost, not because of- It doesn't give an open mind on it.

It fell apart just because of cost, not because of- It doesn't give an open mind on it.

a place you could take the waste if there's a and if we if if we actually find a waste disposal site of the nation which we do not have yet so there's three things that stand in the way of what we call SMRs for moving forward. But I think we should be open to these potentials of anything that's non-carbon emitting. But coming back to your central question, look, the best argument is success.

a place you could take the waste if there's a and if we if if we actually find a waste disposal site of the nation which we do not have yet so there's three things that stand in the way of what we call SMRs for moving forward. But I think we should be open to these potentials of anything that's non-carbon emitting. But coming back to your central question, look, the best argument is success.

And that's what we're experiencing here with the clean energy economy. And that's what's so maddening about Trump, because he's trying to kill all of this economic growth for low-cost energy. That's the other thing that I want to point out. This energy is the least expensive. In 90% of America now, solar and wind and advanced battery storage are less expensive than coal.

And that's what we're experiencing here with the clean energy economy. And that's what's so maddening about Trump, because he's trying to kill all of this economic growth for low-cost energy. That's the other thing that I want to point out. This energy is the least expensive. In 90% of America now, solar and wind and advanced battery storage are less expensive than coal.

But he wants to get rid of the less expensive, and that's why we've had some utility bills go up since he's been president.

But he wants to get rid of the less expensive, and that's why we've had some utility bills go up since he's been president.

Well, I have two theories about why Donald Trump wants to kill clean energy jobs. You know, because he says wind turbines cause cancer. We know they just cause jobs. One, when he was four years old, he was frightened by a wind turbine that was going around. So now he's got a phobia. Or two, he just doesn't like them because they're taller than he is.

Well, I have two theories about why Donald Trump wants to kill clean energy jobs. You know, because he says wind turbines cause cancer. We know they just cause jobs. One, when he was four years old, he was frightened by a wind turbine that was going around. So now he's got a phobia. Or two, he just doesn't like them because they're taller than he is.

Those are the only two things that explains his phobia of the cleanest, cheapest, cheapest, capital C-H, cheapest electricity in America. And it also cuts against his sort of vision of a dominant America. You know, dominance is his number one verb. He worships the gods of dominance. So he wants energy dominance.

Those are the only two things that explains his phobia of the cleanest, cheapest, cheapest, capital C-H, cheapest electricity in America. And it also cuts against his sort of vision of a dominant America. You know, dominance is his number one verb. He worships the gods of dominance. So he wants energy dominance.

Well, if you want to be energy dominant, why are you killing domestic sources of energy? This is homegrown, all-American energy, red, white, and blue, spinning wind turbines and solar panels and advanced electricity. This is all-American. So this cuts against virtually everything he told citizens he wanted to do when he ran for office. A, he said he wanted to reduce inflation.

Well, if you want to be energy dominant, why are you killing domestic sources of energy? This is homegrown, all-American energy, red, white, and blue, spinning wind turbines and solar panels and advanced electricity. This is all-American. So this cuts against virtually everything he told citizens he wanted to do when he ran for office. A, he said he wanted to reduce inflation.

These actions by him have of killing these clean energy industries is increasing inflation. Number two, he said he wanted America to be dominant. Well, he's actually shooting us in the foot and giving these markets to China. And that's not a winning message. So you've asked to be judged against a rational position. I've given up.

These actions by him have of killing these clean energy industries is increasing inflation. Number two, he said he wanted America to be dominant. Well, he's actually shooting us in the foot and giving these markets to China. And that's not a winning message. So you've asked to be judged against a rational position. I've given up.

A couple of things. Number one, We are the victim of 200 years plus of successful democracy, except for the Civil War, in America. So we've been a victim of being lucky never to experience what the continent of Europe or South America or Asia has experienced.

A couple of things. Number one, We are the victim of 200 years plus of successful democracy, except for the Civil War, in America. So we've been a victim of being lucky never to experience what the continent of Europe or South America or Asia has experienced.

you, that's a good argument. And I will, I will not argue the point.

you, that's a good argument. And I will, I will not argue the point.

But at least during those 60 years, we just can't, this is the failure of imagination. It's very difficult even today to wrap your heads around a guy, you know, I grew up in the fifties and this, you know, doing the pledge of allegiance every day. And worshiping the president, being united during the Cuban Missile Crisis. And I grew up with that all-American kind of attitude.

But at least during those 60 years, we just can't, this is the failure of imagination. It's very difficult even today to wrap your heads around a guy, you know, I grew up in the fifties and this, you know, doing the pledge of allegiance every day. And worshiping the president, being united during the Cuban Missile Crisis. And I grew up with that all-American kind of attitude.

And to think, to have to imagine an American president facially ignoring the US Supreme Court, it takes the powers of imagination because we've never experienced that in the United States. Hungary has experienced it. Germany has experienced it. Argentina has experienced it. We never have. So I think part of it is we have to imagine this because we've never experienced it.

And to think, to have to imagine an American president facially ignoring the US Supreme Court, it takes the powers of imagination because we've never experienced that in the United States. Hungary has experienced it. Germany has experienced it. Argentina has experienced it. We never have. So I think part of it is we have to imagine this because we've never experienced it.

But I do believe there's some exhaustion, but I'll tell you, people are waking up. So I spoke to, I don't know, 20,000 people on a sunny day in Seattle a couple weekends ago. On my street corner up here in Bainbridge Island, every day there's two dozen people standing out there. And they're not in the New York Times or on your show, but they're just out there. People are waking up.

But I do believe there's some exhaustion, but I'll tell you, people are waking up. So I spoke to, I don't know, 20,000 people on a sunny day in Seattle a couple weekends ago. On my street corner up here in Bainbridge Island, every day there's two dozen people standing out there. And they're not in the New York Times or on your show, but they're just out there. People are waking up.

I wrote this piece in The Guardian you referred to about a month ago, and there has been some marginal waking up that's happening. So I'm very pleased by that. because people are starting to feel the ramifications, because he is capable of totally ripping apart every law and every constitutional privilege if we don't get out there. So I'm glad that we are. And everybody's got a stake in this.

I wrote this piece in The Guardian you referred to about a month ago, and there has been some marginal waking up that's happening. So I'm very pleased by that. because people are starting to feel the ramifications, because he is capable of totally ripping apart every law and every constitutional privilege if we don't get out there. So I'm glad that we are. And everybody's got a stake in this.

There's going to be a report released tomorrow or a couple of days after this by Climate Power.

There's going to be a report released tomorrow or a couple of days after this by Climate Power.

They're going to release a report that's going to talk about the incredible tens of thousands of jobs lost that we've already lost because of his attack on clean energy. I guess what I'm saying is the assault on democracy has real term ramifications for your economic conditions of your family. It's not just kind of ivory tower constitutional law. It means you're going to pay more for utility.

They're going to release a report that's going to talk about the incredible tens of thousands of jobs lost that we've already lost because of his attack on clean energy. I guess what I'm saying is the assault on democracy has real term ramifications for your economic conditions of your family. It's not just kind of ivory tower constitutional law. It means you're going to pay more for utility.

Your kid's going to lose their jobs. and your prices are gonna go up. Those are the real term ramifications of losing democracy, not just pointy-headed things for constitutional lawyers at the law schools.

Your kid's going to lose their jobs. and your prices are gonna go up. Those are the real term ramifications of losing democracy, not just pointy-headed things for constitutional lawyers at the law schools.

Although I favor those people.

Although I favor those people.

So I'm going to answer that question with this caveat. I want to make sure you don't report that I'm favoring a recession, okay?

So I'm going to answer that question with this caveat. I want to make sure you don't report that I'm favoring a recession, okay?

Well, in answer to your question, if you look at his absolutely cratering approval numbers, a substantial part of that is because people do know that tariffs are going to increase their costs. And within about five to six weeks, they're going to mean they can't get stuff because the shelves are going to be missing a lot of stuff they've added.

Well, in answer to your question, if you look at his absolutely cratering approval numbers, a substantial part of that is because people do know that tariffs are going to increase their costs. And within about five to six weeks, they're going to mean they can't get stuff because the shelves are going to be missing a lot of stuff they've added.

We already had a 20% to 30% reduction in ships coming into Seattle Harbor.

We already had a 20% to 30% reduction in ships coming into Seattle Harbor.

Yeah, we're maybe second on the Puget Sound. And we've already experienced 20% to 30% reduction already, even before the tariffs kick in. So Americans know they're going to get hurt big time by this. He's totally failed trying to tell them otherwise. And yes, that does weaken his ability to tear up the US Constitution. There's no question about it.

Yeah, we're maybe second on the Puget Sound. And we've already experienced 20% to 30% reduction already, even before the tariffs kick in. So Americans know they're going to get hurt big time by this. He's totally failed trying to tell them otherwise. And yes, that does weaken his ability to tear up the US Constitution. There's no question about it.

It's not the preferred way to keep our Constitution intact. The preferred way is for people to get out on the street in peaceful protest and college presidents saying, I'm not going to deal with you, and law firms saying, I'll see you at court, and school district administrators teaching their kids on this subject. That's what's going to ultimately restrain this situation.

It's not the preferred way to keep our Constitution intact. The preferred way is for people to get out on the street in peaceful protest and college presidents saying, I'm not going to deal with you, and law firms saying, I'll see you at court, and school district administrators teaching their kids on this subject. That's what's going to ultimately restrain this situation.

So this is a movie that has been played quite a number of places around the world before. How this movie turns out, we don't know yet. But it's a movie that will turn out very badly if individual organizations and individual people decide to feed the crocodile. Here's what I mean.

So this is a movie that has been played quite a number of places around the world before. How this movie turns out, we don't know yet. But it's a movie that will turn out very badly if individual organizations and individual people decide to feed the crocodile. Here's what I mean.

Winston Churchill, as fascism was raising in Germany, and everybody was saying, well, he's okay, you know, we'll go along with this guy with a mustache for a while, whose name I won't mention. And Churchill said, you know, it's a really bad strategy to feed a crocodile in the hopes that he will eat you last.

Winston Churchill, as fascism was raising in Germany, and everybody was saying, well, he's okay, you know, we'll go along with this guy with a mustache for a while, whose name I won't mention. And Churchill said, you know, it's a really bad strategy to feed a crocodile in the hopes that he will eat you last.

And I think that just defines why these decisions have been so damaging to democracy and ultimately to these institutions. Because I'll tell you what, blackmailers, extortionists never get done with the first bite. They come back. You've already seen him coming back and wanting more from Columbia and these law firms. You've already seen him coming back for that.

And I think that just defines why these decisions have been so damaging to democracy and ultimately to these institutions. Because I'll tell you what, blackmailers, extortionists never get done with the first bite. They come back. You've already seen him coming back and wanting more from Columbia and these law firms. You've already seen him coming back for that.

And so surrender is not an option here if we want to keep a democracy. And I think these you start again, you're starting to see this tide turn a little bit. You're starting to see people waking up in these C streets, C suites. Now, if I may, in the media, I went and saw George Clooney's play. Good night. Good luck.

And so surrender is not an option here if we want to keep a democracy. And I think these you start again, you're starting to see this tide turn a little bit. You're starting to see people waking up in these C streets, C suites. Now, if I may, in the media, I went and saw George Clooney's play. Good night. Good luck.

About Edgar R. Murrow, a proud Washington State University graduate, by the way, who is such a great friend of democracy. Yeah, and the whole play was about management of the media, at that time CBS, trying to lean on Edgar Merle to lighten up on his attacks on Joseph McCarthy.

About Edgar R. Murrow, a proud Washington State University graduate, by the way, who is such a great friend of democracy. Yeah, and the whole play was about management of the media, at that time CBS, trying to lean on Edgar Merle to lighten up on his attacks on Joseph McCarthy.

That day, that same day, in the same studio, the executive producer at 60 Minutes had to quit because management was leaning on him, because Trump was leaning on him. And I'm going like, this play is, we're living this play. It's a real thing. It's not just on the stage. We're living it at this moment.

That day, that same day, in the same studio, the executive producer at 60 Minutes had to quit because management was leaning on him, because Trump was leaning on him. And I'm going like, this play is, we're living this play. It's a real thing. It's not just on the stage. We're living it at this moment.

Yes. We hope the voices in the media can do the same thing. We know some have capitulated and some are standing up. But if there's ever a moment to stand up, you know, and I've appealed. I've tried to make this on a very personal basis. So I've called my regents of the University of Washington to talk to him about this subject. And they've expressed some of the same concerns you have.

Yes. We hope the voices in the media can do the same thing. We know some have capitulated and some are standing up. But if there's ever a moment to stand up, you know, and I've appealed. I've tried to make this on a very personal basis. So I've called my regents of the University of Washington to talk to him about this subject. And they've expressed some of the same concerns you have.

Research dollars, he's going to attack us, blah, blah, blah. And what I've tried to say is, look, imagine you're the regent of the University of Heidelberg in May 1933. And you're told by the new chancellor that you can no longer admit Jewish students or he's going to cut your research budget in half. And I've asked these regions, what would you do?

Research dollars, he's going to attack us, blah, blah, blah. And what I've tried to say is, look, imagine you're the regent of the University of Heidelberg in May 1933. And you're told by the new chancellor that you can no longer admit Jewish students or he's going to cut your research budget in half. And I've asked these regions, what would you do?

You're being tested and you get to decide what you really believe in. And I've tried to appeal people on a personal level with that type of issue, because I do believe that's the same scenario. I really do, because we have seen this happen.

You're being tested and you get to decide what you really believe in. And I've tried to appeal people on a personal level with that type of issue, because I do believe that's the same scenario. I really do, because we have seen this happen.

It's an important one because I can recognize the fear that people have. I get it. It's rational. It's human. But things you treasure, sometimes you just got to stand up for. And, you know, and I've lost my seat voting for an assault weapon ban. So, you know, I know what it means to sacrifice.

It's an important one because I can recognize the fear that people have. I get it. It's rational. It's human. But things you treasure, sometimes you just got to stand up for. And, you know, and I've lost my seat voting for an assault weapon ban. So, you know, I know what it means to sacrifice.

Yes, I was in favor of NAFTA.

Yes, I was in favor of NAFTA.

I'm glad we're having this discussion, but it needs to be nuanced because there's no black or white.

I'm glad we're having this discussion, but it needs to be nuanced because there's no black or white.

Well, the first thing I would say is, Look, there's all kinds of arguments on this tariff, how high it should be, et cetera. And you can fashion all kinds of arguing about every single tariff. But the thing you should not have is a president who is grossly incompetent, who is creating so much uncertainty that he has even unintentionally started trade wars that has now resulted.

Well, the first thing I would say is, Look, there's all kinds of arguments on this tariff, how high it should be, et cetera. And you can fashion all kinds of arguing about every single tariff. But the thing you should not have is a president who is grossly incompetent, who is creating so much uncertainty that he has even unintentionally started trade wars that has now resulted.

You want to talk about manufacturing. A lot of these manufacturing companies are not going to be able to do their job at all. Because they're not going to be able to get the rare earth they need from China and the magnets that today, 90% of the rare earth comes from China. That's getting shut off. That's a consequence of these tariffs.

You want to talk about manufacturing. A lot of these manufacturing companies are not going to be able to do their job at all. Because they're not going to be able to get the rare earth they need from China and the magnets that today, 90% of the rare earth comes from China. That's getting shut off. That's a consequence of these tariffs.

So when you have a grossly incompetent person who wants to cause chaos, and nobody knows what his real plan is, and he has caused the damage to the image of the United States because he's been a buffoon. He says, I'm going to do 145% tariff on China. He says, they're going to back down. They're talking to me. They're going to surrender. The next day, Xi says, forget it, buddy.

So when you have a grossly incompetent person who wants to cause chaos, and nobody knows what his real plan is, and he has caused the damage to the image of the United States because he's been a buffoon. He says, I'm going to do 145% tariff on China. He says, they're going to back down. They're talking to me. They're going to surrender. The next day, Xi says, forget it, buddy.

I'm not even taking your phone.

I'm not even taking your phone.

Right. He has been both chaotic, uncertain. He has squandered our national treasure of credibility because he's folded. He folded on this, but now China won't let him even fold. They won't take his phone calls. He can't even fold.

Right. He has been both chaotic, uncertain. He has squandered our national treasure of credibility because he's folded. He folded on this, but now China won't let him even fold. They won't take his phone calls. He can't even fold.

I would love to think eventually China will show a little mercy to him and eventually work something out. But, yeah, I mean, I guess the first thing I see about trade is the way he's going about it is so injurious.

I would love to think eventually China will show a little mercy to him and eventually work something out. But, yeah, I mean, I guess the first thing I see about trade is the way he's going about it is so injurious.

Right. I'll tell you what my general thinking. I think generally tariffs are not productive for economic growth on either side of a border. They restrict people's ability to do business with one another. That's basically what they do. Generally speaking, I think economies grow when people can do what they do best.

Right. I'll tell you what my general thinking. I think generally tariffs are not productive for economic growth on either side of a border. They restrict people's ability to do business with one another. That's basically what they do. Generally speaking, I think economies grow when people can do what they do best.

And if they can grow bananas in Panama and we can't, then we should be willing to buy bananas, even though we have a trade deficit with them. And to make us pay more for bananas or restrict the ability of our ability to get bananas, in general, doesn't make a lot of sense. So in general, I don't think tariffs make a lot of sense, except

And if they can grow bananas in Panama and we can't, then we should be willing to buy bananas, even though we have a trade deficit with them. And to make us pay more for bananas or restrict the ability of our ability to get bananas, in general, doesn't make a lot of sense. So in general, I don't think tariffs make a lot of sense, except

They are useful, obviously, for national security purposes, so you can protect your national security assets. They are useful if you are being abused, for instance, with issues of intellectual property, and there has been some abuse of our intellectual property. So as a mechanism to force compliance with international standards, there's some reason in that regard.

They are useful, obviously, for national security purposes, so you can protect your national security assets. They are useful if you are being abused, for instance, with issues of intellectual property, and there has been some abuse of our intellectual property. So as a mechanism to force compliance with international standards, there's some reason in that regard.

And when we do do them, and if I was going to criticize NAFTA for a moment, I think the pace of change, when you are having new technologies coming on with these huge new technological advances, we should pay more attention to the pace of change. And the pace of change was more disruptive than anyone would want.

And when we do do them, and if I was going to criticize NAFTA for a moment, I think the pace of change, when you are having new technologies coming on with these huge new technological advances, we should pay more attention to the pace of change. And the pace of change was more disruptive than anyone would want.

Right. If you're going to run the tape backwards, I would have slowed down the rate of opening up some of these markets that happened in NAFTA because it was just so disruptive to a lot of states in the Midwest. So that would have helped. And to some degree, that did improve in subsequent trade negotiations that subsequent presidents negotiated and now be in.

Right. If you're going to run the tape backwards, I would have slowed down the rate of opening up some of these markets that happened in NAFTA because it was just so disruptive to a lot of states in the Midwest. So that would have helped. And to some degree, that did improve in subsequent trade negotiations that subsequent presidents negotiated and now be in.

ripped up but the one thing i can tell you now i'm for sure nuance there's no nuance on this the way this guy is going is is cratering the u.s economy and it's interesting to me how even though tariffs and not everybody got a major in economics right so i got around for sit around for four years and argue this issue with professors one way or another Not everybody had that privilege.

ripped up but the one thing i can tell you now i'm for sure nuance there's no nuance on this the way this guy is going is is cratering the u.s economy and it's interesting to me how even though tariffs and not everybody got a major in economics right so i got around for sit around for four years and argue this issue with professors one way or another Not everybody had that privilege.

Yet, Americans have a deep understanding that this guy is going to cost them more money for everything they buy practically, including utility bills because he's refusing to let us have access to good, clean solar and wind energy. So Americans get this, and it's the principal reason his numbers are just cratering.

Yet, Americans have a deep understanding that this guy is going to cost them more money for everything they buy practically, including utility bills because he's refusing to let us have access to good, clean solar and wind energy. So Americans get this, and it's the principal reason his numbers are just cratering.

So I'm going to tell you a story that doesn't really match the script, but I'm going to tell you a story because you appreciate campaign stories, right? Oh, yeah.

So I'm going to tell you a story that doesn't really match the script, but I'm going to tell you a story because you appreciate campaign stories, right? Oh, yeah.

So I'll tell you part of my learning experience. So I went to Hamburg, Iowa. It was my very first event, and we were going to focus on climate change because there had been a horrendous flood.

So I'll tell you part of my learning experience. So I went to Hamburg, Iowa. It was my very first event, and we were going to focus on climate change because there had been a horrendous flood.

First event. First event in Iowa. And because there had been a horrendous flood swept through town, it was a magnificently choreographed event. We had a guy who actually was Al Gore's advisor whose mother's house was destroyed in the flood. And we could go through and we had, you know, eight or nine cameras and the whole radio and everybody was there. It was a wonderful event.

First event. First event in Iowa. And because there had been a horrendous flood swept through town, it was a magnificently choreographed event. We had a guy who actually was Al Gore's advisor whose mother's house was destroyed in the flood. And we could go through and we had, you know, eight or nine cameras and the whole radio and everybody was there. It was a wonderful event.

We could see where the water had come up halfway up the windowsills. There were all these silos that had collapsed in the flood. So all this wheat was just laying out all over the ground. I mean, it was a very good graphic illustration. And that place had never seen a flood before. It had been there for 150 years. And that town had never seen a flood before.

We could see where the water had come up halfway up the windowsills. There were all these silos that had collapsed in the flood. So all this wheat was just laying out all over the ground. I mean, it was a very good graphic illustration. And that place had never seen a flood before. It had been there for 150 years. And that town had never seen a flood before.

So this was a perfect example of climate-caused disasters that we now are experiencing today. And the thing was going well. I talked to a lot of people there. They all thought that we should do something about climate change. And it was really a great visit. And as I was going to get in the car, my young staffer, who I didn't know very well, says, you got to come over here, Gov.

So this was a perfect example of climate-caused disasters that we now are experiencing today. And the thing was going well. I talked to a lot of people there. They all thought that we should do something about climate change. And it was really a great visit. And as I was going to get in the car, my young staffer, who I didn't know very well, says, you got to come over here, Gov.

You got to meet Henry over here at the auto body shop. And I go, no, no, we're done. We got to go. He says, no, you have to come see Henry. Everybody knows Henry in town. I said, no, no, we're done. He says, look, you got to come. I said, OK. So we walk across town. We go into Henry's shop, auto body shop. And there's NRA posters and Dixie flags everywhere.

You got to meet Henry over here at the auto body shop. And I go, no, no, we're done. We got to go. He says, no, you have to come see Henry. Everybody knows Henry in town. I said, no, no, we're done. He says, look, you got to come. I said, OK. So we walk across town. We go into Henry's shop, auto body shop. And there's NRA posters and Dixie flags everywhere.

And I said, no, this is not a place I want to be.

And I said, no, this is not a place I want to be.

Nice to meet you, Henry, but we have to be going. And the press noticed that I was a little reticent to talk to him. So the press came to him and said, Henry, what do you think of this climate change that the governors talk about? He says, oh, that's a bunch of malarkey. That flood was just because the Corps of Engineers fouled it up. And the first lesson I learned is,

Nice to meet you, Henry, but we have to be going. And the press noticed that I was a little reticent to talk to him. So the press came to him and said, Henry, what do you think of this climate change that the governors talk about? He says, oh, that's a bunch of malarkey. That flood was just because the Corps of Engineers fouled it up. And the first lesson I learned is,

This is a tough business that we're in. So that's a little campaign story. So here's what I've learned is that you have to talk to people about this issue where they live. You can't lecture people, obviously. You need to talk to them about where they live. You need to find out what they care about. What do you care about? What's important to you and your family?

This is a tough business that we're in. So that's a little campaign story. So here's what I've learned is that you have to talk to people about this issue where they live. You can't lecture people, obviously. You need to talk to them about where they live. You need to find out what they care about. What do you care about? What's important to you and your family?

And that's the first part of any discussion. And then once you find that out, to talk to them about possibly they might be interested in this question. If it's a job for their kid coming out of college, we got good ways to say, hey, here's a good reason that your child may have a good career.

And that's the first part of any discussion. And then once you find that out, to talk to them about possibly they might be interested in this question. If it's a job for their kid coming out of college, we got good ways to say, hey, here's a good reason that your child may have a good career.

If it's your crop that you're trying to sell, well, we sure hope that your crop isn't one of those silos that is being washed away. If you have a child with asthma, you say, you know, it's making your child, because we have an epidemic of asthma right now. So the first thing I've learned is to just meet people where they are and talk to them about their personal problems.

If it's your crop that you're trying to sell, well, we sure hope that your crop isn't one of those silos that is being washed away. If you have a child with asthma, you say, you know, it's making your child, because we have an epidemic of asthma right now. So the first thing I've learned is to just meet people where they are and talk to them about their personal problems.

uh ambitions and fears and that's the way to to move forward if you get at it i'll mention one other thing though okay Americans still don't understand this phenomenon. Only one out of five Americans know there's a scientific consensus about this, that we're wrapping the earth in a blanket of carbon dioxide and that there is a scientific consensus about this.

uh ambitions and fears and that's the way to to move forward if you get at it i'll mention one other thing though okay Americans still don't understand this phenomenon. Only one out of five Americans know there's a scientific consensus about this, that we're wrapping the earth in a blanket of carbon dioxide and that there is a scientific consensus about this.

So there's still a lot of basic information that we need to share with Americans. It's one of the reasons I like the Climate Power Accountability Group holding Trump accountable so we can share this scientific information with people.

So there's still a lot of basic information that we need to share with Americans. It's one of the reasons I like the Climate Power Accountability Group holding Trump accountable so we can share this scientific information with people.

Yeah, well, that kind of comes back to what I was saying. As you talk about the specific things in people's lives, including fish, we've had all the kelp disappeared. I live on Bainbridge Island, Washington. All the bull kelp have disappeared. We used to be ringed with bull kelp, these forests. And that's what the salmon depend on. So if you like to go fishing, it's a big deal.

Yeah, well, that kind of comes back to what I was saying. As you talk about the specific things in people's lives, including fish, we've had all the kelp disappeared. I live on Bainbridge Island, Washington. All the bull kelp have disappeared. We used to be ringed with bull kelp, these forests. And that's what the salmon depend on. So if you like to go fishing, it's a big deal.

So yes to that part of your question. But I haven't, and by the way, the insurance thing is so profound. I mean, you can't, you're not going to be able to get insurance.

So yes to that part of your question. But I haven't, and by the way, the insurance thing is so profound. I mean, you can't, you're not going to be able to get insurance.

Government's going to have to step into the role of the insurance industry. It's going to be extremely costly.

Government's going to have to step into the role of the insurance industry. It's going to be extremely costly.

I can't tell you for sure that's true, but whatever it is, it's going to go up because we've had fires even in the western. We're the evergreen state. We have a little rain here, but we're having fires in the western side of Washington state now. I've had two whole towns burned down. Of course, Trump denied us emergency relief from that. But coming back from your central question,

I can't tell you for sure that's true, but whatever it is, it's going to go up because we've had fires even in the western. We're the evergreen state. We have a little rain here, but we're having fires in the western side of Washington state now. I've had two whole towns burned down. Of course, Trump denied us emergency relief from that. But coming back from your central question,

I agree that you want to talk to people if they're fishermen or fisher, you talk about fish. If there's asthma in their family, you talk about asthma. You talk about those issues, not the global crisis, right? It's not the planet that's the problem. It's your life.

I agree that you want to talk to people if they're fishermen or fisher, you talk about fish. If there's asthma in their family, you talk about asthma. You talk about those issues, not the global crisis, right? It's not the planet that's the problem. It's your life.

I haven't found, though, that, you know, on occasion you'll get a Republican say, yes, I'm willing to finance a new dike, right, to protect the town. Right. You're getting some of that, but that is not translated to them saying, and by the way, I want to do something about fossil fuels destroying and causing this problem in the first place.

I haven't found, though, that, you know, on occasion you'll get a Republican say, yes, I'm willing to finance a new dike, right, to protect the town. Right. You're getting some of that, but that is not translated to them saying, and by the way, I want to do something about fossil fuels destroying and causing this problem in the first place.

It's been so disappointing that we have not been able to find Republicans in office to be able to help us on this. And I keep hoping that's going to change, but it is not. The only Republicans really helping us are the ones that are out of office. So right now, we've got to replace them. Well, look what Lisa Murkowski said.

It's been so disappointing that we have not been able to find Republicans in office to be able to help us on this. And I keep hoping that's going to change, but it is not. The only Republicans really helping us are the ones that are out of office. So right now, we've got to replace them. Well, look what Lisa Murkowski said.

You could sense that in her tone of voice.

You could sense that in her tone of voice.

Yeah, I agree that there's pressures for potential primaries for Republican officeholders. There's no question about this. But why the hell are you in office if you're not going to do some basic things? You know, probably 34% of the Republicans in Congress know climate change is potentially devastating to us. They know that. They don't publicly express it.

Yeah, I agree that there's pressures for potential primaries for Republican officeholders. There's no question about this. But why the hell are you in office if you're not going to do some basic things? You know, probably 34% of the Republicans in Congress know climate change is potentially devastating to us. They know that. They don't publicly express it.

They know it, but they won't lift a damn finger to help us out because they're afraid of that. I'm just going like, you don't deserve to be in office and we're going to retire you for private life.

They know it, but they won't lift a damn finger to help us out because they're afraid of that. I'm just going like, you don't deserve to be in office and we're going to retire you for private life.

It's a really interesting question. I should think about that before I answer because it's a hell of a thing to lose. It's painful to lose a car. I know D.C. and I'd staked everything I had to get elected and I wanted an upset. You know, it's very painful. But I will just tell you one thing I can tell you for sure.

It's a really interesting question. I should think about that before I answer because it's a hell of a thing to lose. It's painful to lose a car. I know D.C. and I'd staked everything I had to get elected and I wanted an upset. You know, it's very painful. But I will just tell you one thing I can tell you for sure.

I have never regretted my vote for the assault weapon bill for one second, even though I lost something that was very dear to me. Because I just believe that public service is such a blessing that you have. It's bestowed on you by so many thousands of people to not follow your convictions and the real best interests. Just you're abusing this great gift that is given to you. And when you

I have never regretted my vote for the assault weapon bill for one second, even though I lost something that was very dear to me. Because I just believe that public service is such a blessing that you have. It's bestowed on you by so many thousands of people to not follow your convictions and the real best interests. Just you're abusing this great gift that is given to you. And when you

When these Republicans know climate change, because these are smart people, right? They're dentists, they're doctors, they know this is eating us alive. They understand chemistry, they understand physics. But when you refuse to do that because you're afraid of Donald Trump, you're abusing your office. This is a great gift that has been given to you.

When these Republicans know climate change, because these are smart people, right? They're dentists, they're doctors, they know this is eating us alive. They understand chemistry, they understand physics. But when you refuse to do that because you're afraid of Donald Trump, you're abusing your office. This is a great gift that has been given to you.

And so I feel very strongly about this, as you can tell, when people are afraid of their own damn skins and won't stand up for their constituents. There's too much of that going on. And I will just tell you, even though I lost, I never regretted it because I felt so passionately about my obligation to my constituents.

And so I feel very strongly about this, as you can tell, when people are afraid of their own damn skins and won't stand up for their constituents. There's too much of that going on. And I will just tell you, even though I lost, I never regretted it because I felt so passionately about my obligation to my constituents.

Well, maybe that's it, and I appreciate you trying to think that I'm, you know, it's like mildly courageous, but I actually would think it's a different thing. Maybe I have more confidence in my citizens than some other politicians. I just have more confidence that people will be able to understand the science of climate change, and they'd be willing to do modest things to improve the situation.

Well, maybe that's it, and I appreciate you trying to think that I'm, you know, it's like mildly courageous, but I actually would think it's a different thing. Maybe I have more confidence in my citizens than some other politicians. I just have more confidence that people will be able to understand the science of climate change, and they'd be willing to do modest things to improve the situation.

That's why we passed this Climate Accommitment Act, and it turns out my confidence in citizens was... fulfilled because we won 62 to 38. So I think part of it is that, that I'm willing to ask for more change because I trust people that they'll be able to figure it out. Take some work if they get there.

That's why we passed this Climate Accommitment Act, and it turns out my confidence in citizens was... fulfilled because we won 62 to 38. So I think part of it is that, that I'm willing to ask for more change because I trust people that they'll be able to figure it out. Take some work if they get there.

Well, my working rule is everything, everywhere, all the time. That's number one.

Well, my working rule is everything, everywhere, all the time. That's number one.

Yeah, it could be. The leadership we need right now, we actually are finding, and that's common, ordinary citizens who are standing up, sometimes on a street corner, sometimes marching on a sidewalk, sometimes emailing their congressperson, sometimes talking to their cranky uncle at dinnertime. We have that leadership, and it's arising right now, big time.

Yeah, it could be. The leadership we need right now, we actually are finding, and that's common, ordinary citizens who are standing up, sometimes on a street corner, sometimes marching on a sidewalk, sometimes emailing their congressperson, sometimes talking to their cranky uncle at dinnertime. We have that leadership, and it's arising right now, big time.

And so I'm pleased about the leadership we're having, which isn't necessary to have some sort of flag bearer because we're not going to have one for a year.

And so I'm pleased about the leadership we're having, which isn't necessary to have some sort of flag bearer because we're not going to have one for a year.

Everybody says, well, where's your leadership? I said, the leadership is in our people and they're standing up on their hind legs. And we have that. We have that leadership that we really need. And we got a great deep bench. We're going to have a great nominee. We got a lot of people with a lot of talent. I love...

Everybody says, well, where's your leadership? I said, the leadership is in our people and they're standing up on their hind legs. And we have that. We have that leadership that we really need. And we got a great deep bench. We're going to have a great nominee. We got a lot of people with a lot of talent. I love...

hearing JB Pritzker the other day saying, you know, we're going to, we're going to go after him on the soapbox and beat him at the ballot box. I loved Corey, uh, with what he did. I love Jana mills standing up at the white house to this bully. So we got, we got a lot of voices. I'm confident we're going to have a good nominee because there's a lot of talent, uh,

hearing JB Pritzker the other day saying, you know, we're going to, we're going to go after him on the soapbox and beat him at the ballot box. I loved Corey, uh, with what he did. I love Jana mills standing up at the white house to this bully. So we got, we got a lot of voices. I'm confident we're going to have a good nominee because there's a lot of talent, uh,

First of all, I got to comment on Canada. This wasn't about Trudeau. It was all about Trump, right?

First of all, I got to comment on Canada. This wasn't about Trudeau. It was all about Trump, right?

Well, you know, David Brooks wrote a piece that said, well, you know, Trump has been brilliant in one way. He's extremely energetic and active. And I'm going like, yeah, Charles Manson was a brilliant homicidal maniac, too, David. But that's not something we call David.

Well, you know, David Brooks wrote a piece that said, well, you know, Trump has been brilliant in one way. He's extremely energetic and active. And I'm going like, yeah, Charles Manson was a brilliant homicidal maniac, too, David. But that's not something we call David.

Anyway, I wasn't happy about David's article in that regard. You know, it's interesting. I really haven't given a huge amount of thought to that ideal candidate issue. I'm just going to share with you. I'm just really optimistic about where my party is right now. I know that sounds totally.

Anyway, I wasn't happy about David's article in that regard. You know, it's interesting. I really haven't given a huge amount of thought to that ideal candidate issue. I'm just going to share with you. I'm just really optimistic about where my party is right now. I know that sounds totally.

I'll tell you, I'm optimistic. Number one, I know a lot of these people that are going to be in the mix for our next candidate.

I'll tell you, I'm optimistic. Number one, I know a lot of these people that are going to be in the mix for our next candidate.

And I've debated them. I've worked with them as governors. There's a lot of talent there. So I'm really confident we're going to find the right candidate for whatever reasons. And number two, I do believe that our 2024 experience were largely one-offs that will not be replicated. Inflation, which we got hit with every country in the world and blamed for.

And I've debated them. I've worked with them as governors. There's a lot of talent there. So I'm really confident we're going to find the right candidate for whatever reasons. And number two, I do believe that our 2024 experience were largely one-offs that will not be replicated. Inflation, which we got hit with every country in the world and blamed for.

a president of extreme age, an eventual candidate only had 89 days to campaign. An immigration crisis that was not handled as well as it could have been. That's on us to some degree. Those were all one-offs that I don't believe are going to be replicated. So what happened in a narrow win in 2024, I don't believe will – any reason to believe is going to happen in the next go-around.

a president of extreme age, an eventual candidate only had 89 days to campaign. An immigration crisis that was not handled as well as it could have been. That's on us to some degree. Those were all one-offs that I don't believe are going to be replicated. So what happened in a narrow win in 2024, I don't believe will – any reason to believe is going to happen in the next go-around.

So I'm optimistic. I'm optimistic about the 2026 cycle. I think there's – I'm kind of sarcastic on occasion, but I gave some advice to my Republican colleagues in the House. Don't sign any long-term leases, fellas and ladies, because there's 50 or 60 of you that are in great, great danger right now. And I saw where change elections can be in 1994. I've seen it.

So I'm optimistic. I'm optimistic about the 2026 cycle. I think there's – I'm kind of sarcastic on occasion, but I gave some advice to my Republican colleagues in the House. Don't sign any long-term leases, fellas and ladies, because there's 50 or 60 of you that are in great, great danger right now. And I saw where change elections can be in 1994. I've seen it.

And there's every reason to believe that's what we're going to experience again unless something changes. Because I kind of tell you, the anger that's out there right now is so deep, so profound, and for so many different reasons that how they're going to pull out of this nosedive, I don't know.

And there's every reason to believe that's what we're going to experience again unless something changes. Because I kind of tell you, the anger that's out there right now is so deep, so profound, and for so many different reasons that how they're going to pull out of this nosedive, I don't know.

Right.

Right.

Well, that's an interesting one. I'm so pleased that you want more members of Congress. That is a minority position. You love it.

Well, that's an interesting one. I'm so pleased that you want more members of Congress. That is a minority position. You love it.

I think there's good reason to think that would be an improvement of the House of Representatives. But I believe there's three or four things ahead of it in mind that are- By the way, it would fix the Electoral College too without a constitutional amendment.

I think there's good reason to think that would be an improvement of the House of Representatives. But I believe there's three or four things ahead of it in mind that are- By the way, it would fix the Electoral College too without a constitutional amendment.

for what it's worth? I guess there is a percentage change in that. So that's helpful.

for what it's worth? I guess there is a percentage change in that. So that's helpful.

I'd like to get rid of the electoral college. I think that- Fair point. Obviously, if we could ever achieve that, I think gerrymandering is just such a moral blot on us. And it has been such worse than when I started in politics. The gerrymandering has been so much more acute because of algorithms and computers have now allowed it to be diced and sliced like any possible thing.

I'd like to get rid of the electoral college. I think that- Fair point. Obviously, if we could ever achieve that, I think gerrymandering is just such a moral blot on us. And it has been such worse than when I started in politics. The gerrymandering has been so much more acute because of algorithms and computers have now allowed it to be diced and sliced like any possible thing.

It's too easy to find out. Now we're picking at, there's only, you know, 20 seats that are even contested in the United States, except in a big year like this, okay, which I believe- Right, where you might open up the aperture a little bit, yeah. In 2026. I think those are the two biggest things.

It's too easy to find out. Now we're picking at, there's only, you know, 20 seats that are even contested in the United States, except in a big year like this, okay, which I believe- Right, where you might open up the aperture a little bit, yeah. In 2026. I think those are the two biggest things.

I'm trying to think what you propose, I don't think would solve one of the biggest problems as a structural problem, and I think you've talked about this before, is the self-segregation of the constituents into polarized communities. So now there are half as many zip codes in America that have a 50-50 or purple split as there were when I started in politics. Half as many.

I'm trying to think what you propose, I don't think would solve one of the biggest problems as a structural problem, and I think you've talked about this before, is the self-segregation of the constituents into polarized communities. So now there are half as many zip codes in America that have a 50-50 or purple split as there were when I started in politics. Half as many.

So there's been a structural demographic shift that has made this business of democracy much more difficult because the people geographically are so segregated.

So there's been a structural demographic shift that has made this business of democracy much more difficult because the people geographically are so segregated.

That I can I can testify to you that it makes the business of consensus building so much more difficult. And if we can find it, I don't know what you can do about that. But but that has been a real problem. Then we have the threats to voting and Trump and the Republicans do want to restrict the vote. And they're taking so many actions to reduce and make it much more difficult to vote.

That I can I can testify to you that it makes the business of consensus building so much more difficult. And if we can find it, I don't know what you can do about that. But but that has been a real problem. Then we have the threats to voting and Trump and the Republicans do want to restrict the vote. And they're taking so many actions to reduce and make it much more difficult to vote.

There's something like 9 million voters who don't have access. They're citizens, but they don't have access to the first piece of paper that they need, even though everybody knows they're citizens. So that's a threat as well to make it much more difficult. And the fact that we have people standing in lines for hours to vote is insane. So we have all-male voting here.

There's something like 9 million voters who don't have access. They're citizens, but they don't have access to the first piece of paper that they need, even though everybody knows they're citizens. So that's a threat as well to make it much more difficult. And the fact that we have people standing in lines for hours to vote is insane. So we have all-male voting here.

You do it from your kitchen table. You got two weeks to do it. And we got a high voter participation. I see these people stand in line in the South, and it's 105 degrees, and they made it illegal to give them water. That's how much Republicans hate people when they vote. Okay, this is a threat. And in going all mail voting really makes sense not to make people suffer to vote.

You do it from your kitchen table. You got two weeks to do it. And we got a high voter participation. I see these people stand in line in the South, and it's 105 degrees, and they made it illegal to give them water. That's how much Republicans hate people when they vote. Okay, this is a threat. And in going all mail voting really makes sense not to make people suffer to vote.

I think there's things we can do. You might have two day voting periods, for instance, if you don't have mail voting. So there's a lot of things we can do to make it easier to have access. But we need some work. But the first is to have the first. The first is to expect the president. to follow the damn law. That's the first thing that we need.

I think there's things we can do. You might have two day voting periods, for instance, if you don't have mail voting. So there's a lot of things we can do to make it easier to have access. But we need some work. But the first is to have the first. The first is to expect the president. to follow the damn law. That's the first thing that we need.

Yeah, you know, the thing that this experiment in democracy, it is a blessing and it is unique. It's a miracle they pulled it off back in the 18th century. And here we are at risk in relatively prosperous times and relatively peaceful times to think abandoning this because of one narcissistic sociopath is disturbing. That's why I hope anybody listening to this show will find a way

Yeah, you know, the thing that this experiment in democracy, it is a blessing and it is unique. It's a miracle they pulled it off back in the 18th century. And here we are at risk in relatively prosperous times and relatively peaceful times to think abandoning this because of one narcissistic sociopath is disturbing. That's why I hope anybody listening to this show will find a way

to express themselves.

to express themselves.

I'm very serious. When I talk to people, I encourage them to talk to their family first. Really, I'm very serious about that. And We need to talk to each other about these things. You don't have to be a senator to influence this debate. You can just do it in your own family. So that's where I encourage people to start. Then run for senator.

I'm very serious. When I talk to people, I encourage them to talk to their family first. Really, I'm very serious about that. And We need to talk to each other about these things. You don't have to be a senator to influence this debate. You can just do it in your own family. So that's where I encourage people to start. Then run for senator.

It does.

It does.

Thank you.

Well, the last 100 days of the Trump administration, it actually feels like a thousand days. So I feel like I've had a thousand days under my under my my shirt.

Correct me if I'm wrong. Yeah, I was three terms and then 17 years in Congress and four in state legislature. So I had three good decades of public service. But I must I must push back against you saying I'm retired. I don't feel like not. Do not want to retire. I'm still in the game. I'm working with Climate Power to let people know about the science of climate.

I'm working on some gun safety issue with the Alliance for Gun Responsibility. I'm trying to stir the masses. I just had a piece in The Guardian I printed saying we've got to wake up and smell the roses to push back. So I really feel the same degree of lust for the fight.

Well, I was a bit of a rebel as governor. I kind of did what I wanted to do because it was in the interest of Washingtonians. So I really did not feel constrained. And I think actually, to some degree, that was a little bit of the strength that I brought to the table because I was willing to push boundaries.

And, you know, on issues like health care and climate change and a more progressive tax system. And we we had a lot of positive change in 12 years because I didn't approach the job as feeling constrained. I always felt it was my job to raise the state's ambitions and not be constrained by forces of the status quo or economic power. And so, no, I I'm unconstrained now.

I was fairly unconstrained then. And some people were not happy with that, by the way.

Well, I do think that executives have a couple of different approaches. Some say, look, I'm just going to try to bank as much political capital as I can and not ruffle the waters as little as I can. And that's my route to popularity. That was not my route. I always felt that I wanted to push the envelope of positive change. And when you mentioned incrementalism, I think it's interesting.

I think we did reach the right pace of that. As evidence, we had three of my major advances were challenged at the ballot box last November with a referendum to repeal them. Best climate change policies in the country are a capital gains tax and our first in the nation long-term care plan, which we're very proud of. We're actually the first state to have a long-term care plan for people

We know the silver tsunami is coming. And there was an effort by the forces of reaction to repeal all of those. And we won those going away like 60, 38.

Certainly it is if you win.

If you win, then it is much better. No, these were resounding victories. You know, like our Climate Commitment Act has raised several billion dollars. It restrains carbon. And we won 62 to 38. That was, you know, that's a big margin.

That's a big landslide. And so that made sure there were no attacks in the legislature this last session, even though there were fiscal strains on the state, there were no attacks to siphon that money off or degrade the revenue associated with it. Same with our long-term care plan, same with our capital gains tax. So yes, it did solidify them.

And, you know, it was I guess what I'm pointing out is you're right. You have to pick a pace of change. Fortunately, I think we picked the right pace. We're with in tune with the hearts of Washington state. And and I hope other states will follow us.

Of course not. No, that's of course not. But, you know, people sometimes will not get involved in the charge unless there is a bugle blown. And we blew the bugle, said here's a way to identify these issues. And I think what we found, if you look at the history of

since I've been alive, these things are so incredibly contentious until the day after they're resolved and people start to see the benefits. So our Climate Commitment Act, you know, it was very contentious when we passed it in 2019, 2020. Tell me how it works.

What it does, it stands up a provision that will help meet our carbon reduction goals. We have a goal of 100% clean electricity. That's in law. And this creates a mechanism to assure that we reduce carbon both in our utility grid and in our transportation and in our industrial sector.

So what it does is it sets an absolute cap, an absolute limit on pollution of these toxic materials in the state of Washington. And it forces the polluting industries to purchase a credit against that total amount. And we only sell enough credits to go to that total amount. So they have to pay to pollute. The first principle of it, the polluters have to pay for their pollution.

And that's a very important concept because, you know, when you go to the garbage dump, you got to pay, you know, 15 bucks, 20 bucks to dump your garbage.

Exactly. Well, for too long, though, we've allowed polluting industries to treat the atmosphere like a big garbage dump for free. Well, guess what? If it's for free, guess what people do? They dump their garbage in our only atmosphere that is now putting a blanket of carbon dioxide around the earth.

Well, the best answer to those concerns is experience. And our experience has been wholly positive in that regard. We are building clean energy jobs like crazy in Washington State. I've permitted probably the biggest wind turbine farm in the western United States. I've permitted quite a number of solar farms. We have two of the most advanced battery companies in the world today.

Well, let's talk about which nukes we're talking about because it's an important distinction. All nukes are not created equal. Number one, I'm very excited about fusion energy. As you know, fusion energy is not fission energy. It has essentially no nuclear waste. It just uses water. It's a limited supply.

And one of the first 50 megawatt plants in the world may start construction in Washington state if things go well next year. Now, that's not a guaranteed technology. There's still a lot of work to be done on that, but they're actually starting potentially construction next year. That is an amazing achievement. If fusion pays off, that's like the holy grail. A lot of people have

I have skepticism about it, but I'll tell you there's some really good investors who are investing in this, and I'm glad we're moving forward. On small modular reactors, the question is, can they be built to reduce the amount of risk of any problem at a reasonable price? That's a question that remains to be seen. We did have a proposal here.

It fell apart just because of cost, not because of- It doesn't give an open mind on it.

a place you could take the waste if there's a and if we if if we actually find a waste disposal site of the nation which we do not have yet so there's three things that stand in the way of what we call SMRs for moving forward. But I think we should be open to these potentials of anything that's non-carbon emitting. But coming back to your central question, look, the best argument is success.

And that's what we're experiencing here with the clean energy economy. And that's what's so maddening about Trump, because he's trying to kill all of this economic growth for low-cost energy. That's the other thing that I want to point out. This energy is the least expensive. In 90% of America now, solar and wind and advanced battery storage are less expensive than coal.

But he wants to get rid of the less expensive, and that's why we've had some utility bills go up since he's been president.

Well, I have two theories about why Donald Trump wants to kill clean energy jobs. You know, because he says wind turbines cause cancer. We know they just cause jobs. One, when he was four years old, he was frightened by a wind turbine that was going around. So now he's got a phobia. Or two, he just doesn't like them because they're taller than he is.

Those are the only two things that explains his phobia of the cleanest, cheapest, cheapest, capital C-H, cheapest electricity in America. And it also cuts against his sort of vision of a dominant America. You know, dominance is his number one verb. He worships the gods of dominance. So he wants energy dominance.

Well, if you want to be energy dominant, why are you killing domestic sources of energy? This is homegrown, all-American energy, red, white, and blue, spinning wind turbines and solar panels and advanced electricity. This is all-American. So this cuts against virtually everything he told citizens he wanted to do when he ran for office. A, he said he wanted to reduce inflation.

These actions by him have of killing these clean energy industries is increasing inflation. Number two, he said he wanted America to be dominant. Well, he's actually shooting us in the foot and giving these markets to China. And that's not a winning message. So you've asked to be judged against a rational position. I've given up.

A couple of things. Number one, We are the victim of 200 years plus of successful democracy, except for the Civil War, in America. So we've been a victim of being lucky never to experience what the continent of Europe or South America or Asia has experienced.

you, that's a good argument. And I will, I will not argue the point.

But at least during those 60 years, we just can't, this is the failure of imagination. It's very difficult even today to wrap your heads around a guy, you know, I grew up in the fifties and this, you know, doing the pledge of allegiance every day. And worshiping the president, being united during the Cuban Missile Crisis. And I grew up with that all-American kind of attitude.

And to think, to have to imagine an American president facially ignoring the US Supreme Court, it takes the powers of imagination because we've never experienced that in the United States. Hungary has experienced it. Germany has experienced it. Argentina has experienced it. We never have. So I think part of it is we have to imagine this because we've never experienced it.

But I do believe there's some exhaustion, but I'll tell you, people are waking up. So I spoke to, I don't know, 20,000 people on a sunny day in Seattle a couple weekends ago. On my street corner up here in Bainbridge Island, every day there's two dozen people standing out there. And they're not in the New York Times or on your show, but they're just out there. People are waking up.

I wrote this piece in The Guardian you referred to about a month ago, and there has been some marginal waking up that's happening. So I'm very pleased by that. because people are starting to feel the ramifications, because he is capable of totally ripping apart every law and every constitutional privilege if we don't get out there. So I'm glad that we are. And everybody's got a stake in this.

There's going to be a report released tomorrow or a couple of days after this by Climate Power.

They're going to release a report that's going to talk about the incredible tens of thousands of jobs lost that we've already lost because of his attack on clean energy. I guess what I'm saying is the assault on democracy has real term ramifications for your economic conditions of your family. It's not just kind of ivory tower constitutional law. It means you're going to pay more for utility.

Your kid's going to lose their jobs. and your prices are gonna go up. Those are the real term ramifications of losing democracy, not just pointy-headed things for constitutional lawyers at the law schools.

Although I favor those people.

So I'm going to answer that question with this caveat. I want to make sure you don't report that I'm favoring a recession, okay?

Well, in answer to your question, if you look at his absolutely cratering approval numbers, a substantial part of that is because people do know that tariffs are going to increase their costs. And within about five to six weeks, they're going to mean they can't get stuff because the shelves are going to be missing a lot of stuff they've added.

We already had a 20% to 30% reduction in ships coming into Seattle Harbor.

Yeah, we're maybe second on the Puget Sound. And we've already experienced 20% to 30% reduction already, even before the tariffs kick in. So Americans know they're going to get hurt big time by this. He's totally failed trying to tell them otherwise. And yes, that does weaken his ability to tear up the US Constitution. There's no question about it.

It's not the preferred way to keep our Constitution intact. The preferred way is for people to get out on the street in peaceful protest and college presidents saying, I'm not going to deal with you, and law firms saying, I'll see you at court, and school district administrators teaching their kids on this subject. That's what's going to ultimately restrain this situation.

So this is a movie that has been played quite a number of places around the world before. How this movie turns out, we don't know yet. But it's a movie that will turn out very badly if individual organizations and individual people decide to feed the crocodile. Here's what I mean.

Winston Churchill, as fascism was raising in Germany, and everybody was saying, well, he's okay, you know, we'll go along with this guy with a mustache for a while, whose name I won't mention. And Churchill said, you know, it's a really bad strategy to feed a crocodile in the hopes that he will eat you last.

And I think that just defines why these decisions have been so damaging to democracy and ultimately to these institutions. Because I'll tell you what, blackmailers, extortionists never get done with the first bite. They come back. You've already seen him coming back and wanting more from Columbia and these law firms. You've already seen him coming back for that.

And so surrender is not an option here if we want to keep a democracy. And I think these you start again, you're starting to see this tide turn a little bit. You're starting to see people waking up in these C streets, C suites. Now, if I may, in the media, I went and saw George Clooney's play. Good night. Good luck.

About Edgar R. Murrow, a proud Washington State University graduate, by the way, who is such a great friend of democracy. Yeah, and the whole play was about management of the media, at that time CBS, trying to lean on Edgar Merle to lighten up on his attacks on Joseph McCarthy.

That day, that same day, in the same studio, the executive producer at 60 Minutes had to quit because management was leaning on him, because Trump was leaning on him. And I'm going like, this play is, we're living this play. It's a real thing. It's not just on the stage. We're living it at this moment.

Yes. We hope the voices in the media can do the same thing. We know some have capitulated and some are standing up. But if there's ever a moment to stand up, you know, and I've appealed. I've tried to make this on a very personal basis. So I've called my regents of the University of Washington to talk to him about this subject. And they've expressed some of the same concerns you have.

Research dollars, he's going to attack us, blah, blah, blah. And what I've tried to say is, look, imagine you're the regent of the University of Heidelberg in May 1933. And you're told by the new chancellor that you can no longer admit Jewish students or he's going to cut your research budget in half. And I've asked these regions, what would you do?

You're being tested and you get to decide what you really believe in. And I've tried to appeal people on a personal level with that type of issue, because I do believe that's the same scenario. I really do, because we have seen this happen.

It's an important one because I can recognize the fear that people have. I get it. It's rational. It's human. But things you treasure, sometimes you just got to stand up for. And, you know, and I've lost my seat voting for an assault weapon ban. So, you know, I know what it means to sacrifice.

Yes, I was in favor of NAFTA.

I'm glad we're having this discussion, but it needs to be nuanced because there's no black or white.

Well, the first thing I would say is, Look, there's all kinds of arguments on this tariff, how high it should be, et cetera. And you can fashion all kinds of arguing about every single tariff. But the thing you should not have is a president who is grossly incompetent, who is creating so much uncertainty that he has even unintentionally started trade wars that has now resulted.

You want to talk about manufacturing. A lot of these manufacturing companies are not going to be able to do their job at all. Because they're not going to be able to get the rare earth they need from China and the magnets that today, 90% of the rare earth comes from China. That's getting shut off. That's a consequence of these tariffs.

So when you have a grossly incompetent person who wants to cause chaos, and nobody knows what his real plan is, and he has caused the damage to the image of the United States because he's been a buffoon. He says, I'm going to do 145% tariff on China. He says, they're going to back down. They're talking to me. They're going to surrender. The next day, Xi says, forget it, buddy.

I'm not even taking your phone.

Right. He has been both chaotic, uncertain. He has squandered our national treasure of credibility because he's folded. He folded on this, but now China won't let him even fold. They won't take his phone calls. He can't even fold.

I would love to think eventually China will show a little mercy to him and eventually work something out. But, yeah, I mean, I guess the first thing I see about trade is the way he's going about it is so injurious.

Right. I'll tell you what my general thinking. I think generally tariffs are not productive for economic growth on either side of a border. They restrict people's ability to do business with one another. That's basically what they do. Generally speaking, I think economies grow when people can do what they do best.

And if they can grow bananas in Panama and we can't, then we should be willing to buy bananas, even though we have a trade deficit with them. And to make us pay more for bananas or restrict the ability of our ability to get bananas, in general, doesn't make a lot of sense. So in general, I don't think tariffs make a lot of sense, except

They are useful, obviously, for national security purposes, so you can protect your national security assets. They are useful if you are being abused, for instance, with issues of intellectual property, and there has been some abuse of our intellectual property. So as a mechanism to force compliance with international standards, there's some reason in that regard.

And when we do do them, and if I was going to criticize NAFTA for a moment, I think the pace of change, when you are having new technologies coming on with these huge new technological advances, we should pay more attention to the pace of change. And the pace of change was more disruptive than anyone would want.

Right. If you're going to run the tape backwards, I would have slowed down the rate of opening up some of these markets that happened in NAFTA because it was just so disruptive to a lot of states in the Midwest. So that would have helped. And to some degree, that did improve in subsequent trade negotiations that subsequent presidents negotiated and now be in.

ripped up but the one thing i can tell you now i'm for sure nuance there's no nuance on this the way this guy is going is is cratering the u.s economy and it's interesting to me how even though tariffs and not everybody got a major in economics right so i got around for sit around for four years and argue this issue with professors one way or another Not everybody had that privilege.

Yet, Americans have a deep understanding that this guy is going to cost them more money for everything they buy practically, including utility bills because he's refusing to let us have access to good, clean solar and wind energy. So Americans get this, and it's the principal reason his numbers are just cratering.

So I'm going to tell you a story that doesn't really match the script, but I'm going to tell you a story because you appreciate campaign stories, right? Oh, yeah.

So I'll tell you part of my learning experience. So I went to Hamburg, Iowa. It was my very first event, and we were going to focus on climate change because there had been a horrendous flood.

First event. First event in Iowa. And because there had been a horrendous flood swept through town, it was a magnificently choreographed event. We had a guy who actually was Al Gore's advisor whose mother's house was destroyed in the flood. And we could go through and we had, you know, eight or nine cameras and the whole radio and everybody was there. It was a wonderful event.

We could see where the water had come up halfway up the windowsills. There were all these silos that had collapsed in the flood. So all this wheat was just laying out all over the ground. I mean, it was a very good graphic illustration. And that place had never seen a flood before. It had been there for 150 years. And that town had never seen a flood before.

So this was a perfect example of climate-caused disasters that we now are experiencing today. And the thing was going well. I talked to a lot of people there. They all thought that we should do something about climate change. And it was really a great visit. And as I was going to get in the car, my young staffer, who I didn't know very well, says, you got to come over here, Gov.

You got to meet Henry over here at the auto body shop. And I go, no, no, we're done. We got to go. He says, no, you have to come see Henry. Everybody knows Henry in town. I said, no, no, we're done. He says, look, you got to come. I said, OK. So we walk across town. We go into Henry's shop, auto body shop. And there's NRA posters and Dixie flags everywhere.

And I said, no, this is not a place I want to be.

Nice to meet you, Henry, but we have to be going. And the press noticed that I was a little reticent to talk to him. So the press came to him and said, Henry, what do you think of this climate change that the governors talk about? He says, oh, that's a bunch of malarkey. That flood was just because the Corps of Engineers fouled it up. And the first lesson I learned is,

This is a tough business that we're in. So that's a little campaign story. So here's what I've learned is that you have to talk to people about this issue where they live. You can't lecture people, obviously. You need to talk to them about where they live. You need to find out what they care about. What do you care about? What's important to you and your family?

And that's the first part of any discussion. And then once you find that out, to talk to them about possibly they might be interested in this question. If it's a job for their kid coming out of college, we got good ways to say, hey, here's a good reason that your child may have a good career.

If it's your crop that you're trying to sell, well, we sure hope that your crop isn't one of those silos that is being washed away. If you have a child with asthma, you say, you know, it's making your child, because we have an epidemic of asthma right now. So the first thing I've learned is to just meet people where they are and talk to them about their personal problems.

uh ambitions and fears and that's the way to to move forward if you get at it i'll mention one other thing though okay Americans still don't understand this phenomenon. Only one out of five Americans know there's a scientific consensus about this, that we're wrapping the earth in a blanket of carbon dioxide and that there is a scientific consensus about this.

So there's still a lot of basic information that we need to share with Americans. It's one of the reasons I like the Climate Power Accountability Group holding Trump accountable so we can share this scientific information with people.

Yeah, well, that kind of comes back to what I was saying. As you talk about the specific things in people's lives, including fish, we've had all the kelp disappeared. I live on Bainbridge Island, Washington. All the bull kelp have disappeared. We used to be ringed with bull kelp, these forests. And that's what the salmon depend on. So if you like to go fishing, it's a big deal.

So yes to that part of your question. But I haven't, and by the way, the insurance thing is so profound. I mean, you can't, you're not going to be able to get insurance.

Government's going to have to step into the role of the insurance industry. It's going to be extremely costly.

I can't tell you for sure that's true, but whatever it is, it's going to go up because we've had fires even in the western. We're the evergreen state. We have a little rain here, but we're having fires in the western side of Washington state now. I've had two whole towns burned down. Of course, Trump denied us emergency relief from that. But coming back from your central question,

I agree that you want to talk to people if they're fishermen or fisher, you talk about fish. If there's asthma in their family, you talk about asthma. You talk about those issues, not the global crisis, right? It's not the planet that's the problem. It's your life.

I haven't found, though, that, you know, on occasion you'll get a Republican say, yes, I'm willing to finance a new dike, right, to protect the town. Right. You're getting some of that, but that is not translated to them saying, and by the way, I want to do something about fossil fuels destroying and causing this problem in the first place.

It's been so disappointing that we have not been able to find Republicans in office to be able to help us on this. And I keep hoping that's going to change, but it is not. The only Republicans really helping us are the ones that are out of office. So right now, we've got to replace them. Well, look what Lisa Murkowski said.

You could sense that in her tone of voice.

Yeah, I agree that there's pressures for potential primaries for Republican officeholders. There's no question about this. But why the hell are you in office if you're not going to do some basic things? You know, probably 34% of the Republicans in Congress know climate change is potentially devastating to us. They know that. They don't publicly express it.

They know it, but they won't lift a damn finger to help us out because they're afraid of that. I'm just going like, you don't deserve to be in office and we're going to retire you for private life.

It's a really interesting question. I should think about that before I answer because it's a hell of a thing to lose. It's painful to lose a car. I know D.C. and I'd staked everything I had to get elected and I wanted an upset. You know, it's very painful. But I will just tell you one thing I can tell you for sure.

I have never regretted my vote for the assault weapon bill for one second, even though I lost something that was very dear to me. Because I just believe that public service is such a blessing that you have. It's bestowed on you by so many thousands of people to not follow your convictions and the real best interests. Just you're abusing this great gift that is given to you. And when you

When these Republicans know climate change, because these are smart people, right? They're dentists, they're doctors, they know this is eating us alive. They understand chemistry, they understand physics. But when you refuse to do that because you're afraid of Donald Trump, you're abusing your office. This is a great gift that has been given to you.

And so I feel very strongly about this, as you can tell, when people are afraid of their own damn skins and won't stand up for their constituents. There's too much of that going on. And I will just tell you, even though I lost, I never regretted it because I felt so passionately about my obligation to my constituents.

Well, maybe that's it, and I appreciate you trying to think that I'm, you know, it's like mildly courageous, but I actually would think it's a different thing. Maybe I have more confidence in my citizens than some other politicians. I just have more confidence that people will be able to understand the science of climate change, and they'd be willing to do modest things to improve the situation.

That's why we passed this Climate Accommitment Act, and it turns out my confidence in citizens was... fulfilled because we won 62 to 38. So I think part of it is that, that I'm willing to ask for more change because I trust people that they'll be able to figure it out. Take some work if they get there.

Well, my working rule is everything, everywhere, all the time. That's number one.

Yeah, it could be. The leadership we need right now, we actually are finding, and that's common, ordinary citizens who are standing up, sometimes on a street corner, sometimes marching on a sidewalk, sometimes emailing their congressperson, sometimes talking to their cranky uncle at dinnertime. We have that leadership, and it's arising right now, big time.

And so I'm pleased about the leadership we're having, which isn't necessary to have some sort of flag bearer because we're not going to have one for a year.

Everybody says, well, where's your leadership? I said, the leadership is in our people and they're standing up on their hind legs. And we have that. We have that leadership that we really need. And we got a great deep bench. We're going to have a great nominee. We got a lot of people with a lot of talent. I love...

hearing JB Pritzker the other day saying, you know, we're going to, we're going to go after him on the soapbox and beat him at the ballot box. I loved Corey, uh, with what he did. I love Jana mills standing up at the white house to this bully. So we got, we got a lot of voices. I'm confident we're going to have a good nominee because there's a lot of talent, uh,

First of all, I got to comment on Canada. This wasn't about Trudeau. It was all about Trump, right?

Well, you know, David Brooks wrote a piece that said, well, you know, Trump has been brilliant in one way. He's extremely energetic and active. And I'm going like, yeah, Charles Manson was a brilliant homicidal maniac, too, David. But that's not something we call David.

Anyway, I wasn't happy about David's article in that regard. You know, it's interesting. I really haven't given a huge amount of thought to that ideal candidate issue. I'm just going to share with you. I'm just really optimistic about where my party is right now. I know that sounds totally.

I'll tell you, I'm optimistic. Number one, I know a lot of these people that are going to be in the mix for our next candidate.

And I've debated them. I've worked with them as governors. There's a lot of talent there. So I'm really confident we're going to find the right candidate for whatever reasons. And number two, I do believe that our 2024 experience were largely one-offs that will not be replicated. Inflation, which we got hit with every country in the world and blamed for.

a president of extreme age, an eventual candidate only had 89 days to campaign. An immigration crisis that was not handled as well as it could have been. That's on us to some degree. Those were all one-offs that I don't believe are going to be replicated. So what happened in a narrow win in 2024, I don't believe will – any reason to believe is going to happen in the next go-around.

So I'm optimistic. I'm optimistic about the 2026 cycle. I think there's – I'm kind of sarcastic on occasion, but I gave some advice to my Republican colleagues in the House. Don't sign any long-term leases, fellas and ladies, because there's 50 or 60 of you that are in great, great danger right now. And I saw where change elections can be in 1994. I've seen it.

And there's every reason to believe that's what we're going to experience again unless something changes. Because I kind of tell you, the anger that's out there right now is so deep, so profound, and for so many different reasons that how they're going to pull out of this nosedive, I don't know.

Right.

Well, that's an interesting one. I'm so pleased that you want more members of Congress. That is a minority position. You love it.

I think there's good reason to think that would be an improvement of the House of Representatives. But I believe there's three or four things ahead of it in mind that are- By the way, it would fix the Electoral College too without a constitutional amendment.

for what it's worth? I guess there is a percentage change in that. So that's helpful.

I'd like to get rid of the electoral college. I think that- Fair point. Obviously, if we could ever achieve that, I think gerrymandering is just such a moral blot on us. And it has been such worse than when I started in politics. The gerrymandering has been so much more acute because of algorithms and computers have now allowed it to be diced and sliced like any possible thing.

It's too easy to find out. Now we're picking at, there's only, you know, 20 seats that are even contested in the United States, except in a big year like this, okay, which I believe- Right, where you might open up the aperture a little bit, yeah. In 2026. I think those are the two biggest things.

I'm trying to think what you propose, I don't think would solve one of the biggest problems as a structural problem, and I think you've talked about this before, is the self-segregation of the constituents into polarized communities. So now there are half as many zip codes in America that have a 50-50 or purple split as there were when I started in politics. Half as many.

So there's been a structural demographic shift that has made this business of democracy much more difficult because the people geographically are so segregated.

That I can I can testify to you that it makes the business of consensus building so much more difficult. And if we can find it, I don't know what you can do about that. But but that has been a real problem. Then we have the threats to voting and Trump and the Republicans do want to restrict the vote. And they're taking so many actions to reduce and make it much more difficult to vote.

There's something like 9 million voters who don't have access. They're citizens, but they don't have access to the first piece of paper that they need, even though everybody knows they're citizens. So that's a threat as well to make it much more difficult. And the fact that we have people standing in lines for hours to vote is insane. So we have all-male voting here.

You do it from your kitchen table. You got two weeks to do it. And we got a high voter participation. I see these people stand in line in the South, and it's 105 degrees, and they made it illegal to give them water. That's how much Republicans hate people when they vote. Okay, this is a threat. And in going all mail voting really makes sense not to make people suffer to vote.

I think there's things we can do. You might have two day voting periods, for instance, if you don't have mail voting. So there's a lot of things we can do to make it easier to have access. But we need some work. But the first is to have the first. The first is to expect the president. to follow the damn law. That's the first thing that we need.

Yeah, you know, the thing that this experiment in democracy, it is a blessing and it is unique. It's a miracle they pulled it off back in the 18th century. And here we are at risk in relatively prosperous times and relatively peaceful times to think abandoning this because of one narcissistic sociopath is disturbing. That's why I hope anybody listening to this show will find a way

to express themselves.

I'm very serious. When I talk to people, I encourage them to talk to their family first. Really, I'm very serious about that. And We need to talk to each other about these things. You don't have to be a senator to influence this debate. You can just do it in your own family. So that's where I encourage people to start. Then run for senator.

It does.