Jason Pfeiffer
Appearances
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
"Should I Follow My Boss On Instagram?" and Other New Workplace Etiquette Conundrums
I have thoughts on this too. Oh, I didn't know I have strong feelings on all these subjects.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
"Should I Follow My Boss On Instagram?" and Other New Workplace Etiquette Conundrums
Yeah, that's a nice thing to do is to be clear about it. And if you're taking notes and people know you're taking notes because you care about what is being discussed, then it's like, whatever, there's a little clacking and that's fine. But a couple of things to say. Number one, you can always mute. I do that often.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
"Should I Follow My Boss On Instagram?" and Other New Workplace Etiquette Conundrums
If someone's going to be talking for a few minutes and I'm typing, I will just mute myself and then type away. But also, shout out, we are not getting any money for this, though we probably should. I have been using Fathom. Fathom is an AI note taker. It joins my meetings. I think it's fathom.video is the website. And it is awesome. It's just there in the background.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
"Should I Follow My Boss On Instagram?" and Other New Workplace Etiquette Conundrums
It transcribes all your calls, but it also does this great job of organizing all the main points using AI. It's really impressive. So now I have it in all my calls, and now I don't need to take as many notes.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
"Should I Follow My Boss On Instagram?" and Other New Workplace Etiquette Conundrums
I actually think that this is a really good move for anybody, which is to think about how other people perceive seeing you on the phone. So if you're in a meeting and you pick up your phone and you're taking notes, it's worth saying, sorry, I'm just taking notes. And that way people don't think that you're sexting or texting the dog walker.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
"Should I Follow My Boss On Instagram?" and Other New Workplace Etiquette Conundrums
Like when you do it when we're recording or whatever? Yeah. I always assume you're dealing with something and it's fine because you also... Again, this comes back to like what have you earned and what's the set expectations? I know that you're not going to pick up your phone and disappear into it in the middle of a conversation. And therefore, if you pick up the phone, it's not like a problem.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
"Should I Follow My Boss On Instagram?" and Other New Workplace Etiquette Conundrums
But when my eight-year-old son, Fen...
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
"Should I Follow My Boss On Instagram?" and Other New Workplace Etiquette Conundrums
picks up his ipad in the middle of a conversation i know we have fully lost him to roblox and therefore we got to pull him back but when i go and i give a talk uh like a keynote somewhere oftentimes i'll see people on their phones and then they will come up to me afterwards and they will show me the notes and they'll be like i i'm sorry if it looked rude that i was on the phone i was taking notes like they want they want to show that and i think that that's a good instinct
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
"Should I Follow My Boss On Instagram?" and Other New Workplace Etiquette Conundrums
Yeah, exactly. Right. I hope not. We are really hoping that the other people that Fenn is interacting with on Roblox are also eight, but it's possible that they're 50 and at a convention listening to me give a keynote talk.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
"Should I Follow My Boss On Instagram?" and Other New Workplace Etiquette Conundrums
Just really awkwardly. Just glare at each other.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
"Should I Follow My Boss On Instagram?" and Other New Workplace Etiquette Conundrums
Oh man, I'm sorry about that.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
"Should I Follow My Boss On Instagram?" and Other New Workplace Etiquette Conundrums
Because you had to do all the small talk, Morgan. What was your question?
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
"Should I Follow My Boss On Instagram?" and Other New Workplace Etiquette Conundrums
Do anything good this weekend?
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
"Should I Follow My Boss On Instagram?" and Other New Workplace Etiquette Conundrums
All right, I'm going to give it to you. Here's the solution. This is the solution. The solution is this. Tell a story. So this is what I always do is if I'm on a call, I share whatever the latest amusing or random thing is. I just start telling that to people.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
"Should I Follow My Boss On Instagram?" and Other New Workplace Etiquette Conundrums
And the reason I do it is because I know that everyone on this call hates Zoom small talk, but also will feel obliged to do it unless somebody just fills the void. Somebody needs to fill the void. And I, you know, I know that I, for better or for worse, a thing I can do is fill a void. And so I'll just start talking. I'll just start, I'll just tell some random story until everyone's there.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
"Should I Follow My Boss On Instagram?" and Other New Workplace Etiquette Conundrums
And then I will exit the story and we'll get on. And it's like, look, as long as you know that you're not, you didn't just launch something.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
"Should I Follow My Boss On Instagram?" and Other New Workplace Etiquette Conundrums
your own private version of the moth and like people aren't there for your stories so they don't want it any longer than necessary but like you know if you tell a story and then as soon as the last person shows up and the meeting is supposed to begin like wrap your story up and move into the thing everyone will love you for it
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
"Should I Follow My Boss On Instagram?" and Other New Workplace Etiquette Conundrums
Yeah. You know, I mean, another way you could solve this for people is put interesting things in your background, and then people will ask about them.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
"Should I Follow My Boss On Instagram?" and Other New Workplace Etiquette Conundrums
Like a money roll, yes. Nicole's got a giant money roll behind her, like a physical statue of money. But then you need something amusing to say about it. And I found this to be the case often when I go and call somebody and I was like, oh, I like your wall of hats. And then they'll be like, oh, thank you. And then they'll start telling me about the hats and it fills whatever time is necessary.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
"Should I Follow My Boss On Instagram?" and Other New Workplace Etiquette Conundrums
I usually have, depending on the angle that I'm in my room, I either have a large old timey typewriter behind me, which was my grandma's. And so I have a whole couple of things to say about that. Or there are some guitars hanging on the wall that people ask me about. And then I say some things about that. So Have something that starts a conversation. People will ask about it.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
"Should I Follow My Boss On Instagram?" and Other New Workplace Etiquette Conundrums
But now it is your duty to have some at least mildly engaging thing to say about it that can last 60 to 120 seconds.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
"Should I Follow My Boss On Instagram?" and Other New Workplace Etiquette Conundrums
What percentage of time when you are on a Zoom call, for example, you listening at home, what you don't see is that we are recording. We're all in a Zoom together right now, me.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
"Should I Follow My Boss On Instagram?" and Other New Workplace Etiquette Conundrums
Nicole's looking at herself and has checked her phone a couple of times. But we're also recording locally, which is why the audio quality is better. Anyway, point is, on this call or on regular calls, what percentage of the time have you spent looking at yourself? Morgan, how much time have you spent looking at yourself instead of me and Nicole on this call?
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
"Should I Follow My Boss On Instagram?" and Other New Workplace Etiquette Conundrums
I was going to go a little higher for myself, like maybe a third.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
"Should I Follow My Boss On Instagram?" and Other New Workplace Etiquette Conundrums
Oh, yeah, that's this is at the end. Right. So there's a there is a just for context. There is a we're going to take another episode after this one. There is a guest for that episode. That person is in the waiting room waiting for us. But also Morgan had created a list of questions for this episode. And the shrimping was at the end. What the hell is shrimping?
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
"Should I Follow My Boss On Instagram?" and Other New Workplace Etiquette Conundrums
This is Help Wanted, the show that makes your work work for you. I'm Jason Pfeiffer, editor-in-chief of Entrepreneur Magazine.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
"Should I Follow My Boss On Instagram?" and Other New Workplace Etiquette Conundrums
Explain. Yeah, describe that.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
"Should I Follow My Boss On Instagram?" and Other New Workplace Etiquette Conundrums
Right, so this is, it is 95% background. It's just like your head at a terrible angle, which is what it always is. And just like as a little nub in the bottom middle of the, everybody has seen that.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
"Should I Follow My Boss On Instagram?" and Other New Workplace Etiquette Conundrums
100%.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
"Should I Follow My Boss On Instagram?" and Other New Workplace Etiquette Conundrums
Oh, really? I forgot about the white cord.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
"Should I Follow My Boss On Instagram?" and Other New Workplace Etiquette Conundrums
Right. Yes. Yeah. Nicole is policing what is happening in my... But yes, that is completely... You know, if you want to appear better to people in meetings and probably even be taken more seriously, two things... improve the video and improve the audio. And both are very, very easy. I will tell you what I have. Again, I'm not getting paid anything for this. I have a Logitech Brio.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
"Should I Follow My Boss On Instagram?" and Other New Workplace Etiquette Conundrums
It is a 4K camera. It's just it just attaches to sort of sits on top of my laptop. You plug it in. Instant giant improvement in video quality. It also handles lighting better. So like even if I'm in a semi dark room, it looks better. And then I have for like important meetings that I take, I have a lav, which is just the kind of little microphone that clips to your clothing.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
"Should I Follow My Boss On Instagram?" and Other New Workplace Etiquette Conundrums
And it plugs directly into my MacBook. It's called a Clip 2, Clip 2 something. And it is great. It's so easy and it makes my audio much better and you get taken more seriously. So I think that's very important.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
"Should I Follow My Boss On Instagram?" and Other New Workplace Etiquette Conundrums
And on Thursdays, I give you one way to improve your work and build a career or company you love.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
"Should I Follow My Boss On Instagram?" and Other New Workplace Etiquette Conundrums
Help Wanted is a production of Money News Network. Help Wanted is hosted by me, Jason Pfeiffer.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
"Should I Follow My Boss On Instagram?" and Other New Workplace Etiquette Conundrums
Oh, I didn't sign up for that.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
"Should I Follow My Boss On Instagram?" and Other New Workplace Etiquette Conundrums
Oh, I didn't even notice that. I will take it. What a big deal I am on this show. That's exciting. Morgan, welcome to my show where Nicole occasionally appears too.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
"Should I Follow My Boss On Instagram?" and Other New Workplace Etiquette Conundrums
My wife is very obsessed with that.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
"Should I Follow My Boss On Instagram?" and Other New Workplace Etiquette Conundrums
All right. I like it. It's like the digital age Emily Post.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
"Should I Follow My Boss On Instagram?" and Other New Workplace Etiquette Conundrums
Here's a question back to you. Has your boss followed you on Instagram?
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
"Should I Follow My Boss On Instagram?" and Other New Workplace Etiquette Conundrums
Ah. Ah.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
"Should I Follow My Boss On Instagram?" and Other New Workplace Etiquette Conundrums
I think that it depends upon the kind of relationship that you have with your boss. My boss's name is Bill at Entrepreneur. I thought I did not follow him, but I just checked Instagram and actually I do and he follows me. So maybe it's not so bad because Didn't even notice.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
"Should I Follow My Boss On Instagram?" and Other New Workplace Etiquette Conundrums
But I think that the real issue here is how much should you be thinking about people that you know professionally when you are posting on social media? And I think the answer to that is all the time. Because even if your boss doesn't follow you, they could see something that you post. So you should probably act like your boss follows you regardless of what you do.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
"Should I Follow My Boss On Instagram?" and Other New Workplace Etiquette Conundrums
You can follow. Right. There's like a whole ton of them.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
"Should I Follow My Boss On Instagram?" and Other New Workplace Etiquette Conundrums
Better not. That's fair. I think that the blocking is an aggressive move. So you'd want to be careful about that.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
"Should I Follow My Boss On Instagram?" and Other New Workplace Etiquette Conundrums
I would say default to no too. I would also say it shouldn't matter because the things that you're posting on social media are so work safe that anyone can see it. And this is why you should just create group chats with friends where you can really do all your shit talking.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
"Should I Follow My Boss On Instagram?" and Other New Workplace Etiquette Conundrums
No, no. I actually make a very specific point of this. I do not follow colleagues unless we have hung out and that colleague relationship has turned friend-like. Otherwise, I leave it alone. I do not follow them. I don't want them thinking about me when they're posting stuff. That is an intentional decision that I make.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
"Should I Follow My Boss On Instagram?" and Other New Workplace Etiquette Conundrums
So, yeah, here's a non digital scenario that I expand into all of this stuff. When I became the boss. I realized that my presence at a after work happy hour took on a different meaning. I think that people might want to talk about me. They might want to talk about some annoying thing that I did. And that's their right. They should.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
"Should I Follow My Boss On Instagram?" and Other New Workplace Etiquette Conundrums
And when I was there, now they all have to defer to me in some way because... His highness. But that's how I always feel. If anybody is above me in a hierarchy, I add this level of deferentialness to just general conversation just because I don't ever want them to be annoyed at me because that's the thing.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
"Should I Follow My Boss On Instagram?" and Other New Workplace Etiquette Conundrums
Even if it's a social setting, an annoyance in a social setting can now translate to the work setting where that person now has some... They can lord over me. Anyway, so I just thought... I now don't belong here after a certain amount of time. So maybe if everybody from the office goes to the bar, I don't belong here after the first drink. And then I should leave.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
"Should I Follow My Boss On Instagram?" and Other New Workplace Etiquette Conundrums
And I take that mentality and I apply it to everything with social media. If my presence... makes you think twice about anything because I am no longer just a neutral party in your- You're not a wallflower. Life. Yeah. Then I should remove myself. So that's why I don't follow people. That's why I don't go and like their stuff or whatever.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
"Should I Follow My Boss On Instagram?" and Other New Workplace Etiquette Conundrums
I remove myself because I understand that everything that I do or don't do is going to be perceived differently. And I just want to leave you alone and let you do your thing. Thank you, Your Highness. You are welcome.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
"Should I Follow My Boss On Instagram?" and Other New Workplace Etiquette Conundrums
Great.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
"Should I Follow My Boss On Instagram?" and Other New Workplace Etiquette Conundrums
I've done that. I've brought out Indian food on work Zooms. Here's my rule. I have a very specific rule for this. The rule is... So first of all, it depends on the Zoom, right? If it's a client call or some important call, no, obviously not.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
"Should I Follow My Boss On Instagram?" and Other New Workplace Etiquette Conundrums
Oh, all hands. Well, sorry, I'm exploring all the options. So...
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
"Should I Follow My Boss On Instagram?" and Other New Workplace Etiquette Conundrums
Eat on this call. That is fine. We give you permission. So if I need to be presenting totally professionally, obviously there's no food. If it is just internal and it's casual enough, then my rule is very specific. The rule is no food goes into my mouth on camera. I will lean off camera and take a bite and then come back on camera.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
"Should I Follow My Boss On Instagram?" and Other New Workplace Etiquette Conundrums
Why? Because it's, I find it unpleasant to see. And this is, you know, like whatever you go out to dinner, it doesn't matter. But like, I don't like watching cooking, like TV, like the food network or whatever. I don't like seeing people eat. Why do you want to see people take food and put it in their mouth? That's not a pleasant thing to see.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
"Should I Follow My Boss On Instagram?" and Other New Workplace Etiquette Conundrums
But that's what people do. Like you watch Guy Fieri and it's just like him shoveling food into his mouth. I don't understand.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
"Should I Follow My Boss On Instagram?" and Other New Workplace Etiquette Conundrums
The food is, and I just lean out of frame and I take a bite and then I come back in frame. This is, I've always, this is what I've been doing for years now.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
"Should I Follow My Boss On Instagram?" and Other New Workplace Etiquette Conundrums
Yeah, see, I've probably done it with you guys.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
"Should I Follow My Boss On Instagram?" and Other New Workplace Etiquette Conundrums
That is true.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
"Should I Follow My Boss On Instagram?" and Other New Workplace Etiquette Conundrums
Right. Nothing. Does it taste like anything? For context, for people who don't know, I literally genuinely do not have a sense of taste. I cannot taste food. So people who know this ask me a lot of questions.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
"Should I Follow My Boss On Instagram?" and Other New Workplace Etiquette Conundrums
Stick around. Help Wanted will be right back. Welcome back to Help Wanted. Let's get to it.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
"Should I Follow My Boss On Instagram?" and Other New Workplace Etiquette Conundrums
Oh, I have strong feelings about this too.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
"Should I Follow My Boss On Instagram?" and Other New Workplace Etiquette Conundrums
Yes. Or when somebody else is naked. I used to work from my bedroom and my wife would come in after the shower and she would always be like, is the Zoom off? And I'd have to turn it off. So I feel like companies, I feel like I'm going to deputize everyone listening to slowly, slowly try to drive your company culture towards camera off.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
"Should I Follow My Boss On Instagram?" and Other New Workplace Etiquette Conundrums
Yes. Camera off. We don't need this. We don't need to be on camera all day to see each other.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
"Should I Follow My Boss On Instagram?" and Other New Workplace Etiquette Conundrums
Well, that's wonderful for, for filming, for making podcasts and stuff. But like, you know, if you were just talking to colleagues all day, I just don't think that you need to see their faces. And whenever I have a meeting and I tell people, you know, we don't need an, you don't need another zoom meeting in your life. I am sure we can do camera off. They always say, do you know what they say to me?
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
"Should I Follow My Boss On Instagram?" and Other New Workplace Etiquette Conundrums
They say the same thing every time. When I say, I'm sure you don't need another Zoom meeting in your life. We can keep the cameras off. What do they say?
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
"Should I Follow My Boss On Instagram?" and Other New Workplace Etiquette Conundrums
Thank you. They always say thank you. Thank you. Because they don't want it. Nobody wants it. I have found that entrepreneur, there were a couple colleagues who just started showing up with their camera off. Shout out Deepa. Deepa's camera's off and off. And it inspired others. It created permission for other people to keep their cameras off.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
"Should I Follow My Boss On Instagram?" and Other New Workplace Etiquette Conundrums
And now most, in a lot of meeting settings at Entrepreneur, cameras are all off. I think that is wonderful. Cameras off.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
"Should I Follow My Boss On Instagram?" and Other New Workplace Etiquette Conundrums
Oh, I think it's entirely dependent upon the existing set of expectations. If this person works well and shows up and there's just never a question about whether they're working... Deepa is a great example of which. It's just a colleague of mine, Deepa. Deepa is the Swiss army knife of entrepreneurs. She does everything. And there is never a question of whether or not Deepa is on it.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
"Should I Follow My Boss On Instagram?" and Other New Workplace Etiquette Conundrums
Deepa is always on it. And as a result, nobody cares if Deepa's camera is off because... She's there. Everything will get done. There's just no worry. So in a way, you almost have to earn the camera off.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
"Should I Follow My Boss On Instagram?" and Other New Workplace Etiquette Conundrums
Yeah. Safety first.