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Heather Radke

Appearances

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

100.276

Oh, my God. Oh, my God.

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

1051.834

As the mother's blood starts rushing into the placenta, the fetus just starts growing and growing. It's the size of a grapefruit by week 15, a pineapple by 24, a watermelon by 36.

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

1067.963

So the placenta starts releasing more and more of this hormone.

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

1072.946

Which sort of hijacks the mother's digestive system.

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

1087.737

And all the while, the placenta is gobbling up more and more of the mother's blood.

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

1100.043

And this is where things can get dangerous for the mother.

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

1118.057

Preeclampsia is very, very scary. And it's basically when the mother's blood pressure spikes so high that she can actually die. Whoa. And it's really serious. It's one of the leading causes of maternal death. And I think it's easy to sort of think, like, high blood pressure, you know, not such a big deal.

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

1137.49

But it's actually the placenta, you know, sucking so much blood out of the mother's body that she can't. continue to survive.

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

1191.257

But the placenta is still in there. And so the placenta actually also kind of has to be born. I'm getting the sense that the placenta may be underneath this blue cover. Is that right?

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

1204.622

So we didn't actually see anyone give birth to a placenta. But Harvey did show us one in his lab.

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

1212.545

Harvey grabs the blue cloth and he pulls it back.

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

1246.889

So I'm going to pick it up and see how heavy it is. So I grabbed the placenta. It's kind of heavy. Like what?

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

1261.176

About as wide as a volleyball. It's really weird. Okay, first of all, it's cold. Maybe slimy is the word. And it's got a lot of texture when you're in the beefy part. You can feel what I imagine are the veins. And it has like, it's not all one texture. It's like hard in spots and soft in spots. It feels sort of like crazy.

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

1336.04

And what's kind of cool is it leaves no scar. It's like one of the only things like this in the body, maybe the only thing like this, where something sort of gets sheared off and there's no, like no mark remains there.

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

1404.582

Yeah, I don't know.

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

1468.902

But also a lot of people don't throw it away.

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

1478.156

This is Tina Delisle. She's a professor of history at the University of Minnesota Twin Cities, and she's writing a book about the placenta. Indigenous people were understanding the placenta for a long time. She explained to us that this dawning we were having, that the placenta is kind of like a parent.

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

149.024

Well, I think I can... You take it. Okay. I was thinking about getting pregnant, and I started to do a bunch of research about And, you know, pregnancy is this thing, at least for me, where I was like, I know about that. You know, I took like 14 years of sex ed in my public high school.

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

1493.155

It's something that a lot of people had already been thinking about the placenta for a really long time.

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

1552.703

Okay, so you're saying that the placenta isn't just looking after the well-being of the child when it's in the womb, but also into adulthood? Yes.

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

1627.297

But things have changed some since Tina gave birth in 2006. In states like Hawaii and Texas and Oregon, now you can legally take your baby's placenta home with you.

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

170.982

But I'll just say the more I learn about it, the more I realize how little I know and maybe like how little anyone knows about pregnancy. Yeah. And one of the very first things I discovered was that when you're pregnant, you don't just grow a baby. You grow an entirely new organ.

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

194.161

Your whole life, you've got your heart, your lungs, your bone, your skin, your eyes, etc. So this is the main hospital. But then all of a sudden during pregnancy...

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

208.294

And that organ is the placenta.

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

212.155

I had heard of the placenta before, but I really didn't know anything about it.

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

221.058

I think I thought a thing a lot of people think, which is that the baby grows inside the placenta.

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

247.317

So it's actually grown by the fetus, which means that every single one of us has had a placenta.

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

274.617

I'm interested in how you got interested in the placenta. Presumably it wasn't because you got pregnant. Serendipity.

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

371.843

Eventually he figured out that what he was looking at were stem cells, placental stem cells. And over the next few decades, he and a bunch of other scientists would start to piece together the story of the placenta.

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

389.936

So before we start, we just want to say a note on the word mother. Not everyone who gets pregnant or has a baby identifies as a mother, but it's a word a lot of people use when talking about pregnancy, including some of our sources. And so we're using it in addition to more inclusive language like pregnant person and parent. Got it.

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

420.879

By the time it gets to about 32... The cluster of cells sort of forms into two layers.

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

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There's a little cluster of cells on the inside...

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

442.178

So from the very first few days of pregnancy, these placental cells are wrapped around what's going to become the embryo, like a little blanket. And as Harvey explained all this to us, and he walked us deeper into the story of the placenta, we started to see that pregnancy isn't a peaceful nursery rhyme kind of a story about a pregnant person nurturing a fetus until it becomes a cute little baby.

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

468.981

It's actually more like a struggle and not like a calm college debate. It's like a cage match, like a knock-down, drag-out boxing match, or a tiny war, maybe even. On one side is the pregnant person, and on the other side is the fetus. And in the middle, or maybe not actually in the middle, more like actually in the corner, rubbing the shoulders of the fetus, is the placenta.

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

577.418

But... Before the mother's body even has a chance to attack the embryo, the placenta blanket hides it.

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

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Mom's still at the bar. She sure is. Okay, so for the first week or so of the pregnancy, the placenta is pretty much just hiding the embryo from the mother. But then...

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

614.854

The embryo gets hungry. And the placenta's like, I gotta feed this thing. And this is when the battle lines really start to get drawn. Because essentially this war between the placenta and the pregnant person is a war that's about food. The placenta, Harvey says, has one mission.

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

671.818

That our friend Harvey likens to milk.

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

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To block those claws from getting in.

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

740.04

It keeps digging. But then the uterus blocks it.

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

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And the uterus keeps blocking it, blocking, blocking it.

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

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It's a really good question, and we will get to it after the break.

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

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So you all actually already answered this question on the show. Oh.

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

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So basically the story we told then is that before placentas, all animals that would become mammals laid eggs. And an egg is a special little thing. It's a self-contained little package where the fetus has everything it needs to eat until it's ready to hatch and all of its waste products stay inside the egg and nothing comes in and nothing goes out until the animal is ready to leave its egg.

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

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an ancient proto-mammal and changed its DNA so that eventually, many generations later, the eggshell transformed from a hard shell that exists outside the body to a sort of permeable layer that exists inside the body, which then becomes the placenta. And this was a huge advantage because it made it possible for the blood of the mother to actually feed the fetus.

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

893.974

So it could get tons more nutrients. It wasn't limited to just like whatever yolk was inside the egg from the beginning.

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

907.509

Geneticist Melissa Wilson again. That's mind-blowing. Because it made it possible to actually make a baby with a big, giant brain, like a human being or a dolphin. And that was great. But it also had this downside.

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

933.712

Okay, and this is how we've ended up four weeks into what's basically a war between the mother and the placenta, with the placenta trying to suck blood out of the mother, and the mother basically trying to box it out. And this fight...

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

974.337

And the uterus just says, nope, get out.