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Harvey Kleiman

Appearances

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

1020.31

And there... The PP13 attracts the entire police force, SWAT team, everybody of the mother's immune system.

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

1043.437

And blood fountains into the placenta. It's bathed in all these nutrients and goes, buffet time. Let me see what I need.

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

1062.619

And that fetus is demanding more and more horsepower, more and more nutrients to actually grow.

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

1070.685

Called human placental lactogen.

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

1075.488

Says, okay, you're eating. I get that. But none of that actually is for you. You're not going to get to store it. All those nutrients are going to stay in your blood. So I, the placenta, can suck up those nutrients.

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

1092.02

And by the third trimester, Harvey says, 20 to 25 percent of all the blood flow of the mother is going into the placenta.

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

1102.944

If the placenta and the fetus together say, hey, I'm not getting enough blood, I'm just going to force her body to start pumping more blood into me, into the fountaining system. And this is a condition we call preeclampsia.

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

1151.297

Mom, of course, doesn't want to die. She doesn't want the fetus to take all her nutrients. But if she is successful and wins the battle, if you will, the placenta is too small, the fetus is too small, and the pregnancy may not survive.

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

1210.184

All right, are we ready for the moment?

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

1216.579

And this is the placenta, which is in the standard Ziploc bag. That's what it's in right now.

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

1225.726

It's kind of bloody, isn't it?

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

1228.368

And so I'm going to open the Ziploc bag.

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

1253.732

Like a normal term placenta is about 550 grams, which is just about a pound. It's about eight to nine inches in diameter.

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

1296.806

I think this is another miracle. So the baby goes first and... The uterus is elastic and has muscle, so it contracts down. And it's that contracting down that actually shears the placenta off, the lining of the uterus, and the placenta gets delivered. And then... All those blood vessels that have been supplying blood to the placenta for all those weeks and months have to close down.

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

1450.102

And thank it?

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

1453.245

Thank you, placenta, for making me survive and be alive.

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

1654.284

Monday, actually. Monday late afternoon. So there's a little cute baby someplace who is happy and alive because of this placenta.

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

1669.827

We can't know who they are. That's part of the reason we have the placenta.

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

1677.353

Yes, we will thank them spiritually.

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

204.133

A whole new organ shows up. Here is our cabinet of placentas.

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

209.895

Whole placentas, pieces of placentas.

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

216.637

It's called the afterbirth for a reason. It's an afterthought that no one thinks about.

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

242.325

The placenta belongs to the embryo, to the fetus, to the baby.

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

253.541

I was kind of like you. I literally had no idea what it did, what its purpose was.

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

259.646

Harvey Kleiman.

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

261.787

MD, PhD, physician scientist at Yale University.

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

268.252

We're sort of running out of room.

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

271.215

Kristen, I think we need another cabinet.

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

285.864

And I'm now a resident at University of Pennsylvania. And I'm in a laboratory.

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

292.989

And in the lab, there was somebody else who was working on the placenta. And they were chopping up the placenta and homogenizing the placenta.

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

314.479

And they wanted me to take a picture of the gradient. Why? Well, on the side, I'm a photographer. I've actually done bar mitzvahs and weddings and things like that. Yeah, I love visual things, I think is what interests me in general. And so I took a picture of the gradient and I asked Jerry, who was running the lab, I said, Jerry, would you mind if I looked at what they are?

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

334.711

He said, sure, go for it. And what Harvey saw was something that no one had ever seen before.

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

348.3

They were like amoeba.

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

351.143

They started moving around and then they came together, they aggregated, then the membranes broke down and they fused to make these multinucleated giant cells.

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

366.316

I said, that is super cool. What's going on here?

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

407.95

So let's start from the beginning. You have an egg, and then if there's sperm around, the sperm will fertilize that egg. And then it divides. Divides into two. And then four. Eight. And 16, et cetera, et cetera.

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

426.743

It's like a tennis ball now.

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

430.385

That will become the embryo. That will become the fetus. That will become the baby, those little inside group of cells. But the cells on the outside... Those cells will become the placenta.

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

508.487

So what happens?

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

522.836

From the mother's point of view, this is immunologically foreign.

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

538.403

If we took a piece of tissue from whoever the father was of a pregnancy and put it into the mother, she would reject it.

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

554.188

It's a foreign invader.

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

575.297

So that's definitely a problem.

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

589.77

The placenta is going to become invisible to the mother. What?

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

594.372

The mother literally doesn't even see that the pregnancy is there.

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

610.049

The next problem that the placenta faces is nutrition.

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

632.892

To make the biggest baby possible, to suck as much nutrients out of the mother as possible. And the pregnant person's mission? Not to die.

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

665.416

But one of its other jobs is that it causes the lining of the uterus to secrete HCG. A protein.

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

684.685

The lining of the uterus makes milk for the embryo.

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

721.409

Into the blood vessels and attack the walls to open them up.

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

730.576

The uterus stops them. Basically putting up a brick wall, very dense tissue.

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

737.159

Now the placenta doesn't give up easily.

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

749.103

We're talking pretty aggressive here.

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

957.932

It has a heart, kidneys, liver.

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

968.675

It's just like, hey, I need to be growing. I need more nutrients for my passenger, the fetus.

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

979.758

But the placenta has a couple of tricks up its sleeve.

Radiolab

Everybody's Got One

990.12

Here's an analogy. If we wanted to rob a bank, I don't want the police to be near there. So what I'm going to do is blow up a grocery store, wait for all the police to sort of go around the grocery store. And while they're busy doing that, I'm going to sneak into the bank.