Glenn Greenwald
Appearances
The Dan Bongino Show
Trump Shocks The World With Major Announcement (Ep. 2416)
Whether you like it or not, Donald Trump has deputized Elon Musk to have this agency that's designed to eliminate waste as the White House sees it. Wasteful spending, unnecessary spending. And so when the people that are Part of this effort that Donald Trump has created after he won the election went to USAID and it's happened in other agencies too.
The Dan Bongino Show
Trump Shocks The World With Major Announcement (Ep. 2416)
You see almost this physical resistance, like how dare you come into our realm? You don't run us. You're just the elected part of the government. Where this agency that exists independent of you, where does this mentality come from that they have this right to pursue their own agenda independent of any elected officials or elected parts of the government?
The Megyn Kelly Show
Tulsi vs. the Establishment, Kash on Hot Seat, and RFK's Final Push, with Glenn Greenwald, Calley Means, and More | Ep. 996
Obviously, the question of what Edward Snowden did, whether he did everything exactly the way people think he should have is a point that can be debated, has been debated for a long time. One thing I will note is that at the time of the reporting, there was a lot of support, both from the left and the right, the kind of anti-establishment populist wings of both parties. I remember it very well.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Tulsi vs. the Establishment, Kash on Hot Seat, and RFK's Final Push, with Glenn Greenwald, Calley Means, and More | Ep. 996
And it was the centrist, bipartisan establishment wing that was enraged by what Edward Snowden did, because what he did, I think we have to remember, is
The Megyn Kelly Show
Tulsi vs. the Establishment, Kash on Hot Seat, and RFK's Final Push, with Glenn Greenwald, Calley Means, and More | Ep. 996
this question of whether he's a traitor let's remember that like tulsi gabbard edward snowden after 9 11 went to enlist in the united states army he heeded his government's call to go to war to defend his country he then went to work for the cia and the nsa and only there did he discover that the nsa was doing things that it was never supposed to be doing namely turning its very powerful surveillance tools onto its own citizenry it was always supposed to be directed outward
The Megyn Kelly Show
Tulsi vs. the Establishment, Kash on Hot Seat, and RFK's Final Push, with Glenn Greenwald, Calley Means, and More | Ep. 996
And spying on Americans without warrants in ways that Obama's national security DNI, his chief intelligence officer, James Clapper, falsely denied to Congress that they were doing. And he felt duty bound to come forward and let his fellow citizens know. And some of the programs we were able to reveal as a result of what he did. Ended up being declared both unconstitutional and illegal.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Tulsi vs. the Establishment, Kash on Hot Seat, and RFK's Final Push, with Glenn Greenwald, Calley Means, and More | Ep. 996
And none of the people on this committee are angry about that. They're only angry at him for having exposed it because these people on this committee have supreme loyalty to the part of our government that's secret and that has been abusing its power, which is why President Trump picked her.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Tulsi vs. the Establishment, Kash on Hot Seat, and RFK's Final Push, with Glenn Greenwald, Calley Means, and More | Ep. 996
to go in and confront that the other thing i want to say megan this idea of who's a traitor or not being a traitor means you tried to betray your country you tried to harm your country and help your enemies edward stone didn't have this this archive of of information that he was entitled to have he had classified uh top secret uh security clearance think of all the things he could have done with that archive he could have sold it to some foreign government or some group of non-state actors that made a huge amount of money he could have passed it secretly
The Megyn Kelly Show
Tulsi vs. the Establishment, Kash on Hot Seat, and RFK's Final Push, with Glenn Greenwald, Calley Means, and More | Ep. 996
to America's enemies. He could have dumped it all on the internet without regard to what it was exposing. He did none of that. He came to American journalists, myself, who was working at The Guardian, Laura Poitras, who was working with The Washington Post, and he said, I only want you to reveal what is necessary to reveal that's in the public interest for Americans to know.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Tulsi vs. the Establishment, Kash on Hot Seat, and RFK's Final Push, with Glenn Greenwald, Calley Means, and More | Ep. 996
And all the decisions that were made about what got released and what weren't were decisions that we as journalists made. He played no role in deciding what was released and what wasn't. And the vast majority of the archive to this very day was never released because we acted in accordance with his very conservative views about how the archive should be treated.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Tulsi vs. the Establishment, Kash on Hot Seat, and RFK's Final Push, with Glenn Greenwald, Calley Means, and More | Ep. 996
So again, you can dispute things he did, say he should have done things in a different path, but the idea that he was a traitor when he could have done so many things to harm the United States and everything he did was about protecting the privacy rights of American citizens is guaranteed by the Constitution that courts said were being violated.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Tulsi vs. the Establishment, Kash on Hot Seat, and RFK's Final Push, with Glenn Greenwald, Calley Means, and More | Ep. 996
That's why Tulsi defended him, not because she believed everything he did was perfect, but because she knew that he was the only person with the courage to come forward and risk his liberty and risk his life, which he did in a very courageous way, simply to let American citizens know what their government was doing to them in the dark.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Tulsi vs. the Establishment, Kash on Hot Seat, and RFK's Final Push, with Glenn Greenwald, Calley Means, and More | Ep. 996
And I think this kind of histrionics about demanding that he should call him a traitor Which is ridiculous. And the one last point I wanted to make, Megan, quickly, if I could. I know Tulsi. I have a lot of respect for her, even though I disagree with her. I think I was just talking to your team about this.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Tulsi vs. the Establishment, Kash on Hot Seat, and RFK's Final Push, with Glenn Greenwald, Calley Means, and More | Ep. 996
If you look at those clips you just showed, Tulsi knew so well that if she had just called him a traitor, her path to confirmation would have been much clearer. But she doesn't think he's a traitor, so she refused to do that because she's not willing to say things she doesn't believe in order to advance her own career or gain power, which speaks extremely well of her character.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Tulsi vs. the Establishment, Kash on Hot Seat, and RFK's Final Push, with Glenn Greenwald, Calley Means, and More | Ep. 996
And yeah, I mean, and maybe even Democrats. I mean, probably Republicans, though, if she had said no, that she does not think he's a traitor, her confirmation possibilities would be over. They're already at risk, but it would have been over. And so you could say, yeah, she should just do it on principle and go down with the fight.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Tulsi vs. the Establishment, Kash on Hot Seat, and RFK's Final Push, with Glenn Greenwald, Calley Means, and More | Ep. 996
And then they'll just put somebody in that seat after her who says, yeah, trade Snowden is a traitor who should be murdered. The government did nothing wrong. The CIA did nothing wrong or the NSA. You know, what's the victory in that? But the fact she wouldn't affirm false claims. I think is what she did.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Tulsi vs. the Establishment, Kash on Hot Seat, and RFK's Final Push, with Glenn Greenwald, Calley Means, and More | Ep. 996
So I don't know, I wish she had said no, but if she had said no, her nomination would have been destroyed.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Tulsi vs. the Establishment, Kash on Hot Seat, and RFK's Final Push, with Glenn Greenwald, Calley Means, and More | Ep. 996
OK, first of all, go and look at that tweet just to get an understanding for how politicians so readily lie. The tweet was saying, look, if Tulsi Gabbard needs to say that I harm national security and the sweet feelings of people in Washington, have her go say it. I know it's the Pledge of Allegiance you're required to take in Washington.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Tulsi vs. the Establishment, Kash on Hot Seat, and RFK's Final Push, with Glenn Greenwald, Calley Means, and More | Ep. 996
He wasn't saying, oh, I'm here to finally confess that I harmed national security. And yet that's the claim. And I have to say, there's so many claims that get made about Snowden. I know we don't have time to go into them. I just did a segment on it last night about how he ended up in Russia. He didn't choose to go there. He was trying to pass through there.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Tulsi vs. the Establishment, Kash on Hot Seat, and RFK's Final Push, with Glenn Greenwald, Calley Means, and More | Ep. 996
The Obama administration trapped him there. All the things that are used against him. But be that as it may, I think the key point here is that when Donald Trump ran in 2016 and when he ran again, he did not run against the Democratic Party. He ran against the establishment wings of both parties, what he called the swamp.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Tulsi vs. the Establishment, Kash on Hot Seat, and RFK's Final Push, with Glenn Greenwald, Calley Means, and More | Ep. 996
People who believe that these institutions should never be reformed, that they never err, they're there to protect the status quo, they don't want Washington changed.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Tulsi vs. the Establishment, Kash on Hot Seat, and RFK's Final Push, with Glenn Greenwald, Calley Means, and More | Ep. 996
Trump ran on a promise telling the American people what they already believe, which is that these institutions are fundamentally broken, that he wants to go in and radically restructure them, rebuild them, and make them work how they're supposed to work in the interest of the American people and not against them.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Tulsi vs. the Establishment, Kash on Hot Seat, and RFK's Final Push, with Glenn Greenwald, Calley Means, and More | Ep. 996
And the nominees he sent there are people who shared that commitment, at least the ones that are controversial, to change these institutions that haven't been working. And I think it's important to realize that there are a lot of people in Congress, Senate Republicans and Democrats, who are very much have that pro-establishment ethos.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Tulsi vs. the Establishment, Kash on Hot Seat, and RFK's Final Push, with Glenn Greenwald, Calley Means, and More | Ep. 996
And even though they have to praise Trump and pretend they're on his side, they very much are there to subvert and impede what he does. And you're seeing a lot of that in these committee confirmation hearings.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Tulsi vs. the Establishment, Kash on Hot Seat, and RFK's Final Push, with Glenn Greenwald, Calley Means, and More | Ep. 996
Hmm. Probably not wrong. Unfortunately, I do think he might actually get a yes vote from Senator Wyden, whose entire career has been about warning of the dangers of NSA spying on Americans without warrants.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Tulsi vs. the Establishment, Kash on Hot Seat, and RFK's Final Push, with Glenn Greenwald, Calley Means, and More | Ep. 996
I know. I was like, no. And there she was, you know, agreeing with him. I guess the NSA has too many. But I just want people to understand what this issue is that they're debating.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Tulsi vs. the Establishment, Kash on Hot Seat, and RFK's Final Push, with Glenn Greenwald, Calley Means, and More | Ep. 996
Since when is it a plank of the Republican Party or the American right that the federal government should have the right to spy on the communication of American citizens, which is what we're talking about here, without any warrants required by law? We all grew up studying the Bill of Rights and are taught that the Bill of Rights is what distinguishes our country from all the others.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Tulsi vs. the Establishment, Kash on Hot Seat, and RFK's Final Push, with Glenn Greenwald, Calley Means, and More | Ep. 996
And I actually agree with that. I have a lot of critiques of the United States. I treat with reverence the Bill of Rights and the Constitution. The idea that the government can't spy on us without warrants is foundational to everything that we believe in.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Tulsi vs. the Establishment, Kash on Hot Seat, and RFK's Final Push, with Glenn Greenwald, Calley Means, and More | Ep. 996
And here is John Cornyn on behalf of the Republican Party treating Tulsi Gabbard like she's unqualified for a position in government because she believes the government should only be able to spy on American citizens once they first get the warrants required by the Constitution and the law. And this is what I'm trying to say. You have a huge part of the Republican Party still.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Tulsi vs. the Establishment, Kash on Hot Seat, and RFK's Final Push, with Glenn Greenwald, Calley Means, and More | Ep. 996
who has to pretend and appease Donald Trump because he is by far the most popular person in the Republican Party. They don't actually, they're far more ideologically aligned with a lot of the established members of the Democratic Party than they are with Donald Trump and the people who worked so hard to get him elected and the ideology that he defended in order to be elected.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Tulsi vs. the Establishment, Kash on Hot Seat, and RFK's Final Push, with Glenn Greenwald, Calley Means, and More | Ep. 996
And this is what you're seeing. Tulsi Gabbard isn't there because Chuck Schumer chose her. She's there because Donald Trump did. And now they're going to vote in secret, which gives them the ability to vote no without any real precautions.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Tulsi vs. the Establishment, Kash on Hot Seat, and RFK's Final Push, with Glenn Greenwald, Calley Means, and More | Ep. 996
And I do have a lot of concerns about her nomination and the fact that her nomination is endangered because she has been a longtime defender, both in the Democratic Party and the Republican Party, of the privacy rights of American citizens is mind-blowing to me, but so reflective of how Washington politics has changed in so many ways.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Tulsi vs. the Establishment, Kash on Hot Seat, and RFK's Final Push, with Glenn Greenwald, Calley Means, and More | Ep. 996
Yeah, so let's remember that the most dangerous part of American history was the Cold War in the 60s, the 50s, 60s, 70s, and the 80s through the Reagan administration and then Bush 41.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Tulsi vs. the Establishment, Kash on Hot Seat, and RFK's Final Push, with Glenn Greenwald, Calley Means, and More | Ep. 996
The entire time when the US government, the NSA, the CIA were spying on phone calls, if they learned that they were spying on a foreign national and they began speaking to an American citizen, they would have to hang up the phone and go and get a warrant. We managed to win the Cold War despite the warrant requirement being honored against all those presidents.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Tulsi vs. the Establishment, Kash on Hot Seat, and RFK's Final Push, with Glenn Greenwald, Calley Means, and More | Ep. 996
And the reason why that's necessary is because we found out in the mid-70s with the church committee that the CIA, the FBI, the NSA had been wildly abusing their spying power for years against political opponents for blackmail purposes. And the FISA court was an exception. It said, look, this isn't a real court. It's going to be in the DOJ.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Tulsi vs. the Establishment, Kash on Hot Seat, and RFK's Final Push, with Glenn Greenwald, Calley Means, and More | Ep. 996
Only the government goes and 99% of the cases are going to get the warrant anyway, but the need to have to justify it, at least provide some safeguards without actually impeding the executive branch's ability to spy. And as you say, it was only in the wake of 9-11 when George Bush and Dick Cheney said, we don't care what the law says.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Tulsi vs. the Establishment, Kash on Hot Seat, and RFK's Final Push, with Glenn Greenwald, Calley Means, and More | Ep. 996
start spying even if it's on americans without the warrants required by law lots of things happen right after 9 11 but we're far away from 9 11 now people in both parties have said this is too dangerous to allow the government to do the founders found you know viewed the warrant requirement is absolutely central to securing a free debate a free country again you can debate it but the idea that tulsi favors a warrant requirement for american citizens
The Megyn Kelly Show
Tulsi vs. the Establishment, Kash on Hot Seat, and RFK's Final Push, with Glenn Greenwald, Calley Means, and More | Ep. 996
cannot possibly be disqualifying. The other part about the program that Snowden revealed, that's 702. The main program that he revealed that ended up being declared unconstitutional legal was the fact that the NSA was collecting all of the information about all of our telephone calls
The Megyn Kelly Show
Tulsi vs. the Establishment, Kash on Hot Seat, and RFK's Final Push, with Glenn Greenwald, Calley Means, and More | Ep. 996
where we were, with whom we were speaking, for what duration, including by and among American citizens without warrants and in complete secrecy. And when you can find out the so-called metadata, meaning I called a HIV doctor, you called an abortion clinic, you're talking to some person that's not your spouse late at night, you get a very comprehensive picture of the person
The Megyn Kelly Show
Tulsi vs. the Establishment, Kash on Hot Seat, and RFK's Final Push, with Glenn Greenwald, Calley Means, and More | Ep. 996
whose data you've collected and they were collecting that data on every single american on u.s soil unbeknownst to not even the people in congress with no warrant or supervision at all that was the program that most bothered edward snowden that was the first one i reported at the guardian and that's the one that courts found were both unconstitutional and illegal which again you can debate all these other details but to try and claim that someone's a traitor or that they somehow are
The Megyn Kelly Show
Tulsi vs. the Establishment, Kash on Hot Seat, and RFK's Final Push, with Glenn Greenwald, Calley Means, and More | Ep. 996
unfit to serve in government because they believe in a warrant requirement or think it's a good thing that we found out our government was violating our constitutional rights, that's when I think you see this fanaticism to protect the U.S. security state that's very unhealthy for our democracy.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Tulsi vs. the Establishment, Kash on Hot Seat, and RFK's Final Push, with Glenn Greenwald, Calley Means, and More | Ep. 996
There's only one. Sorry, Megan.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Tulsi vs. the Establishment, Kash on Hot Seat, and RFK's Final Push, with Glenn Greenwald, Calley Means, and More | Ep. 996
Yeah, me too. And just by the way, the Constitution defines treason, being a traitor. It means aiding and abetting an American enemy in a time of war. That's what treason is. But yeah, and also you can pick up the newspaper every day, as you all know, Megan, and every article begins with, according to classified documents provided by the New York Times.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Tulsi vs. the Establishment, Kash on Hot Seat, and RFK's Final Push, with Glenn Greenwald, Calley Means, and More | Ep. 996
Washington leaks classified documents every single day. People in the highest levels of government for their own purposes. No one thinks they're a traitor.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Tulsi vs. the Establishment, Kash on Hot Seat, and RFK's Final Push, with Glenn Greenwald, Calley Means, and More | Ep. 996
That nails it. And also, anyone who knows Tulsi will tell you that of all the people who are in prominent positions in Washington politics, she's basically the least likely to submit to someone else's will or do as she told. I think there's a lot of assumptions going on there that she's incapable of real autonomy. She always has to have men pulling her strings. There's a lot of
The Megyn Kelly Show
Tulsi vs. the Establishment, Kash on Hot Seat, and RFK's Final Push, with Glenn Greenwald, Calley Means, and More | Ep. 996
kind of embedded assumptions going on. And also, you know, I remember the time that I was most offended. Hillary Clinton, who voted to send people to the Iraq war because she knew it would serve for presidential aspirations, but of course, never went and fought herself. No one in her family did. Never got near a front line.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Tulsi vs. the Establishment, Kash on Hot Seat, and RFK's Final Push, with Glenn Greenwald, Calley Means, and More | Ep. 996
Tulsi Gabbard answers the call of people like Hillary Clinton in Washington, George Bush, et cetera, to go fight in Iraq. She goes and risks her life there. She's been in the military for 20 years. She still is. She's a lieutenant colonel. in the military. And then Hillary Clinton turned around in 2016 and said, I think she's being controlled by the Russians. Her loyalties lie elsewhere.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Tulsi vs. the Establishment, Kash on Hot Seat, and RFK's Final Push, with Glenn Greenwald, Calley Means, and More | Ep. 996
And then you have all these people today, again, trying to say that somehow she's in Putin's pocket or she's in Assad's pocket. It is really reprehensible. You can disagree with Tulsi Gabbard's view on Syria or Russia or Ukraine, whatever. Those things should be debated and are debated. And like you said, So what's the worst thing that can happen?
The Megyn Kelly Show
Tulsi vs. the Establishment, Kash on Hot Seat, and RFK's Final Push, with Glenn Greenwald, Calley Means, and More | Ep. 996
You put someone like that into a position, you have a debate, you have vibrancy. There's still safeguards. You can impeach her if she really does any of these worst case scenario things.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Tulsi vs. the Establishment, Kash on Hot Seat, and RFK's Final Push, with Glenn Greenwald, Calley Means, and More | Ep. 996
But to watch somebody who has given their entire lives to being deployed overseas, to putting their life in harm's way for their country, and then have a bunch of politicians who send people to war but never go and fight them or send their kids to go to fight them, impugning her patriotism constantly or her integrity is really disgusting. And I feel very offended when I watch it.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Tulsi vs. the Establishment, Kash on Hot Seat, and RFK's Final Push, with Glenn Greenwald, Calley Means, and More | Ep. 996
This is the exact same impression I had with the RFK Jr. hearing yesterday. You would think that these people are defending policymakers and decision makers and institutions that have been unerring, that have done nothing but great things for America. How dare you say that our health regulatory system has anything wrong with it, needs fixing.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Tulsi vs. the Establishment, Kash on Hot Seat, and RFK's Final Push, with Glenn Greenwald, Calley Means, and More | Ep. 996
We just got lied to over and over about one of the most consequential health crises in 100 years. And we know we got lied to. Same thing here. We have fought so many wars, got involved in so many overseas conflicts that have been absolutely disastrous for the United States. A lot of it has been based on lies, based on false intelligence. That's Iraq, that's Vietnam, and many other things.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Tulsi vs. the Establishment, Kash on Hot Seat, and RFK's Final Push, with Glenn Greenwald, Calley Means, and More | Ep. 996
And here you have somebody, Tulsi Gabbard, saying something that has been said for decades in Washington at the highest levels of the CIA, which is, if you try and expand NATO into Ukraine, the Russians will perceive this as an existential threat, and you're going to provoke some sort of conflict where they go over the border into eastern Ukraine and
The Megyn Kelly Show
Tulsi vs. the Establishment, Kash on Hot Seat, and RFK's Final Push, with Glenn Greenwald, Calley Means, and More | Ep. 996
and even into Crimea and try and annex it to defend themselves. So she's trying to say, you don't have to agree with her.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Tulsi vs. the Establishment, Kash on Hot Seat, and RFK's Final Push, with Glenn Greenwald, Calley Means, and More | Ep. 996
Hey, we should think about the things we're doing in Eastern Europe that are threatening to the Russians, and we should try and get along with them, given that they have the largest nuclear arsenal on the planet, something Ronald Reagan did, something Richard Nixon did, went and visited Russia, did arms deals with them.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Tulsi vs. the Establishment, Kash on Hot Seat, and RFK's Final Push, with Glenn Greenwald, Calley Means, and More | Ep. 996
If you do anything other than simply clap like a seal for everything the US foreign policy establishment does and says and never criticize them and only side with them and say everything they do is right, if you do anything else like that, it means you're with them and not us. I want people in our government who are able to be engaged in self introspection.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Tulsi vs. the Establishment, Kash on Hot Seat, and RFK's Final Push, with Glenn Greenwald, Calley Means, and More | Ep. 996
And say, hey, maybe the policies that we're pursuing are causing harm. It doesn't mean Putin was justified in invading Ukraine. She never said that. She said the opposite. But we still should look at our policies all the time. And the idea that if we're critical of our leaders or our government's policies, it means we're a traitor.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Tulsi vs. the Establishment, Kash on Hot Seat, and RFK's Final Push, with Glenn Greenwald, Calley Means, and More | Ep. 996
To me, the highest duty of patriotism is to try and improve your country, improve your government. And sometimes that means by criticizing it.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Tulsi vs. the Establishment, Kash on Hot Seat, and RFK's Final Push, with Glenn Greenwald, Calley Means, and More | Ep. 996
This is the thing that really amazes me, Megan, and it's been amazing me for two years now. The Democrats keep saying with a straight face that they are concerned that first Donald Trump won, and now if Kash Patel gets confirmed, that they're gonna politicize the Justice Department in order to weaponize the Justice Department and go after their political enemies.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Tulsi vs. the Establishment, Kash on Hot Seat, and RFK's Final Push, with Glenn Greenwald, Calley Means, and More | Ep. 996
And you're sitting there and you're watching this and you're thinking, I just watched you bring four felony cases against Donald Trump and openly admit that your election strategy was to make sure he was imprisoned prior to the 2024 election because you thought that was the best chance for you to win the election with Joe Biden.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Tulsi vs. the Establishment, Kash on Hot Seat, and RFK's Final Push, with Glenn Greenwald, Calley Means, and More | Ep. 996
I've watched you spend the entire first Trump term unleashing Robert Mueller and every prostitute you can find based on this bizarre conspiracy theory that Trump collaborated with the Kremlin, which came out of the FBI and the CIA because they hated Trump. And Robert Mueller himself ended up saying there was no evidence for it.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Tulsi vs. the Establishment, Kash on Hot Seat, and RFK's Final Push, with Glenn Greenwald, Calley Means, and More | Ep. 996
They've done nothing but the Democrats have politicized and weaponized the CIA, the FBI, the entire justice system and intelligence apparatus. And then they have the nerve to turn around and say that because Trump is putting somebody in there who wants to clean that out, they're the ones that are going to weaponize the justice system. The level of audacity to this is almost impossible to swallow.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Tulsi vs. the Establishment, Kash on Hot Seat, and RFK's Final Push, with Glenn Greenwald, Calley Means, and More | Ep. 996
Also, what they're really trying to do is basically create an immunity for people who broke the law. Let's assume that it is true, which of course it is, that people inside the FBI and these other agencies abused their power because they wanted to destroy Donald Trump because they disliked him politically, which of course we know. We've seen the emails of people inside the FBI.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Tulsi vs. the Establishment, Kash on Hot Seat, and RFK's Final Push, with Glenn Greenwald, Calley Means, and More | Ep. 996
saying exactly that, who brought the Russiagate investigation. Should those people be allowed to just continue in the FBI as if they never abused their power? Or should the people who abused their power be removed from that position? Of course they should be removed from that position. They're trying to extract a promise from Kash Patel.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Tulsi vs. the Establishment, Kash on Hot Seat, and RFK's Final Push, with Glenn Greenwald, Calley Means, and More | Ep. 996
That he won't remove any of the people who did the Democrats bidding by abusing these agencies and destroying their credibility. And he's saying, look, they won't be subject to political retribution. But obviously, the people inside these agencies broke the law. Of course, they should be investigated. That's what it means to have a rule of law.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Tulsi vs. the Establishment, Kash on Hot Seat, and RFK's Final Push, with Glenn Greenwald, Calley Means, and More | Ep. 996
Well, also, you know, look at what the Democrats are defending. They just got done with an election where they largely got crushed because they were perceived as, correctly, as the party of the status quo, as the party that defends even rotted American institutions that people hate. And now they're defending the pharmaceutical industry from more regulatory scrutiny. They're defending the U.S.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Tulsi vs. the Establishment, Kash on Hot Seat, and RFK's Final Push, with Glenn Greenwald, Calley Means, and More | Ep. 996
surveillance state from being able to spy on Americans without warrants. And here they're defending the J. Edgar Hoover FBI building in Washington. And obviously, when Kash Patel is saying we should close it or whatever, what he's obviously saying is this was never intended to be some permanent part of Washington power.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Tulsi vs. the Establishment, Kash on Hot Seat, and RFK's Final Push, with Glenn Greenwald, Calley Means, and More | Ep. 996
This was a law enforcement agency that was supposed to solve federal crimes, investigate and solve federal crimes throughout the country. Instead, it's become yet another arm of how Washington exercises power. against the rest of the country.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Tulsi vs. the Establishment, Kash on Hot Seat, and RFK's Final Push, with Glenn Greenwald, Calley Means, and More | Ep. 996
And we should take these resources and put them inside the United States, not putting them all in Washington, because that's how it becomes a political entity when you're centering everything in Washington. Everybody wants to work in Washington, be around Washington. Of course, it's going to then become politicized. And this idea of a museum to the deep state
The Megyn Kelly Show
Tulsi vs. the Establishment, Kash on Hot Seat, and RFK's Final Push, with Glenn Greenwald, Calley Means, and More | Ep. 996
we do have a deep state in the united states so white eisenhower warned about it 60 years ago on his way out in the uh of the office it's a permanent power faction that exercises power regardless of the outcome of elections and outside of democratic accountability and it used to be foundational on the american left to understand this and now it's taboo to say it but this is part of the reason why i'm most enthusiastic about these nominees the ones running into the most uh resistance cash patel rk jr tulsi
The Megyn Kelly Show
Tulsi vs. the Establishment, Kash on Hot Seat, and RFK's Final Push, with Glenn Greenwald, Calley Means, and More | Ep. 996
Because they're essentially saying there's something very wrong in how Washington works. The power that has been centralized was never supposed to be like this. And we need to break it up. We need to smash it up into little pieces and make sure that that abuse becomes manifest and can't be replicated again.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Tulsi vs. the Establishment, Kash on Hot Seat, and RFK's Final Push, with Glenn Greenwald, Calley Means, and More | Ep. 996
Great to see you, Megan. Thank you.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Media Obsessed with January 6 To Smear Trump Supporters, and Biden's Bizarre Outburst, with Ben Shapiro and Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 976
Happy New Year to you. Yes, we call that Insurrection Day in our household. I forgot that I was your first guest and I called myself the godfather of this program for some time, but you grew a lot and I figured that title was no more inappropriate. But yeah, it's always great to be back.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Media Obsessed with January 6 To Smear Trump Supporters, and Biden's Bizarre Outburst, with Ben Shapiro and Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 976
This is, you know, I think it's important to sometimes underscore how amazing it really is for people who may not have been involved in politics 20 years ago, who weren't paying a lot of attention, who were too young to have lived through it.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Media Obsessed with January 6 To Smear Trump Supporters, and Biden's Bizarre Outburst, with Ben Shapiro and Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 976
The policies that Dick Cheney stood for, that Liz Cheney by his side was a vocal advocate of and continues to this very day to justify, not just the invasion of Iraq, throw that to Guantanamo, due process free imprisonment, kidnapping people off the streets of Europe, torture, CIA black sites.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Media Obsessed with January 6 To Smear Trump Supporters, and Biden's Bizarre Outburst, with Ben Shapiro and Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 976
These things were regarded at the time for years as one of the greatest evils in American history by liberals and Democrats. They were calling these people Nazis and war criminals. And to be honest, I was among them.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Media Obsessed with January 6 To Smear Trump Supporters, and Biden's Bizarre Outburst, with Ben Shapiro and Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 976
So to watch the commendation not just be about Liz Cheney's heroic role on the January 6th committee, but Biden said 20 years of service in defense of dignity, freedom and decency when she's a symbol of these policies that they said at least as bad about as they say of Trump now is just so indicative of how Democratic Party politics has become so craven and empty.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Media Obsessed with January 6 To Smear Trump Supporters, and Biden's Bizarre Outburst, with Ben Shapiro and Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 976
There's so many things to say about that. I honestly don't know where to start. But first of all, just as an aside, because you brought it up, the reason Anna Wintour, the editor in chief of Vogue, got that award is because she refused to put Melania on the cover of Vogue like the first time in years that a first lady hasn't been on there, but put Jill Biden on there twice.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Media Obsessed with January 6 To Smear Trump Supporters, and Biden's Bizarre Outburst, with Ben Shapiro and Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 976
So she has made her political affinities very clear. And of course, the Biden administration loves her for that. OK, we just went through a campaign where Kamala Harris effectively made Liz Cheney her running mate, dragging her all throughout the Midwest as though disaffected, you know, working class people were yearning for a return of the nobility of the Cheneys as that's what they were craving.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Media Obsessed with January 6 To Smear Trump Supporters, and Biden's Bizarre Outburst, with Ben Shapiro and Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 976
And look, I have Liz Cheney here and look, I'm going to bring go to Michigan and remind all of you the Muslim voters that I need that I have Dick Cheney's daughter with me to remember them. And it failed. Not only did it fail in terms of Liz Cheney, I think the broader point failed to trying to tell Americans that ideology doesn't matter. Economics doesn't matter. Culture doesn't matter.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Media Obsessed with January 6 To Smear Trump Supporters, and Biden's Bizarre Outburst, with Ben Shapiro and Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 976
All that matters is our conception of democracy. And remember, January 6th, and it was Liz Cheney. Nobody cares. Nobody cares. This is not what people think. It was a three-hour riot that was easily subdued. It had about a thousand Trump supporters at most. Two of them dropped out of a heart attack. One of them from an overdose. These were not trained militias. Nobody wielded a gun.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Media Obsessed with January 6 To Smear Trump Supporters, and Biden's Bizarre Outburst, with Ben Shapiro and Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 976
to continue to try and squeeze the stone after they just got crushed doing it. January 6th, insurrection, Liz Cheney. They're just so out of ideas that it's almost like they don't even internalize the rejection that they just experienced.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Media Obsessed with January 6 To Smear Trump Supporters, and Biden's Bizarre Outburst, with Ben Shapiro and Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 976
You know, I just, I'm almost hesitant to say it because, you know, we all have this experience, I think, where somebody in our family or somebody beloved by someone close to us ends up in like the last stages of their life. They're, you know, experiencing various forms of dementia. They go into nursing homes.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Media Obsessed with January 6 To Smear Trump Supporters, and Biden's Bizarre Outburst, with Ben Shapiro and Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 976
You talk to any caregiver in a nursing home and they will tell you that male patients in particular, as they get older, they start doing very inappropriate things. They lose sense of their boundaries, but also they just don't, You can't follow a conversation any longer. And they get very grumpy at the same time, like almost aggressive.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Media Obsessed with January 6 To Smear Trump Supporters, and Biden's Bizarre Outburst, with Ben Shapiro and Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 976
That was like, I mean, I would have been concerned for my physical safety if I had been in the vicinity of Joe Biden when he was speaking that way, because actually that dementia can make people very physically powerful. True. Megan, I was going to talk about how the lies that the media told about January 6th, like Brian Sicknick being murdered.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Media Obsessed with January 6 To Smear Trump Supporters, and Biden's Bizarre Outburst, with Ben Shapiro and Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 976
Bludgeon to death of a fire extinguisher, all that, all those lies that they told. I think it's really worth pausing that if Joe Biden had been reelected, as a lot of them wanted him to do, as the Democratic Party was intending for him to be, He would have four more years in this state, four more years. He's 82. He would go to 86. He already doesn't know where he is.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Media Obsessed with January 6 To Smear Trump Supporters, and Biden's Bizarre Outburst, with Ben Shapiro and Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 976
He has no compartmental self-control. He doesn't understand what's being said to him. And the media and Democrats have spent not just years, but even more so over the last 12 months heading into the election, vehemently insisting that Joe Biden has never been sharper, that he's smarter than everybody in the room, that he's whip smart and detailed focus. And they continue to say it.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Media Obsessed with January 6 To Smear Trump Supporters, and Biden's Bizarre Outburst, with Ben Shapiro and Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 976
Simone Sanders said it. Chuck Schumer was saying it just a few months ago. The lie that they told about Joe Biden's mental capacity when they thought they needed him to be reelected is such a foundational lie to our democracy. And so many of them were complicit in it.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Media Obsessed with January 6 To Smear Trump Supporters, and Biden's Bizarre Outburst, with Ben Shapiro and Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 976
Also, they're still lying. They're still lying. The idea that Joe Biden so patriotically and selflessly decided he was going to step down because it was for the good of the country, he was infuriated that they were forcing him to step down. They threatened him with the 25th Amendment. Nancy Pelosi and Barack Obama were calling every day and intensifying their threats.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Media Obsessed with January 6 To Smear Trump Supporters, and Biden's Bizarre Outburst, with Ben Shapiro and Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 976
Nancy Pelosi said, we can do this the easy way or the hard way. He's enraged and bitter to this day that they forced him to leave the race. He didn't selflessly do anything. let alone decide he didn't want to run for reelection.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Media Obsessed with January 6 To Smear Trump Supporters, and Biden's Bizarre Outburst, with Ben Shapiro and Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 976
The other part of it though, Megan, is there obviously have been times when the media has lied to the public about the war in Vietnam or Iraq or Russiagate, all Hunter Biden's laptop. And those were instances where the public had no way of knowing what the truth was. They had no way of knowing that they were being lied to.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Media Obsessed with January 6 To Smear Trump Supporters, and Biden's Bizarre Outburst, with Ben Shapiro and Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 976
The amazing thing about this case is that if you look at public polling data, going back to 2020, 2021, The public knew that Joe Biden was cognitively declining. They knew he was cognitively unfit for the presidency. The media pretended over and over that it was a lie. And until the debate happened when they couldn't hide it anymore and they all had to pretend, oh my God, we can't believe it.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Media Obsessed with January 6 To Smear Trump Supporters, and Biden's Bizarre Outburst, with Ben Shapiro and Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 976
It turns out Joe Biden doesn't seem like he's all there. And the amazing part about that is when George Clooney wrote that op-ed that ended up being a significant catalyst to forcing Joe Biden out, which is the weird unto itself. But when George Clooney wrote that, he said when he decided that this has to happen was at that fundraiser they did where Barack Obama led him off the stage.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Media Obsessed with January 6 To Smear Trump Supporters, and Biden's Bizarre Outburst, with Ben Shapiro and Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 976
And he said that Joe Biden was a Joe Biden I had never seen before. At the time, everybody else noticed that. They said, look, Joe Biden doesn't even know where he is. Obama has to walk him off the stage. The Washington Post, the New York Times, in conjunction with the White House, collaborated to say this was disinformation, right wing cheap fakes.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Media Obsessed with January 6 To Smear Trump Supporters, and Biden's Bizarre Outburst, with Ben Shapiro and Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 976
In other words, they were showing the correct video but lying about it. And then George Clooney comes out and says, yeah, at that event, he wasn't there. And none of these media outlets have remotely accounted for what it is that they did.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Media Obsessed with January 6 To Smear Trump Supporters, and Biden's Bizarre Outburst, with Ben Shapiro and Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 976
You know, first of all, if you watch her interviews, like her series of interviews since she took over Meet the Press, and it's not like Chuck Todd was any better, maybe just a little smoother, a little more subtle about it because he'd been on for so long. Every time she interviews a Trump supporter, every time, that's what she does. She interrupts.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Media Obsessed with January 6 To Smear Trump Supporters, and Biden's Bizarre Outburst, with Ben Shapiro and Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 976
to try and imply that what's being said is too false to even allow it to be on the air. She constantly debates the person she's debating after they say something by saying there's no evidence for it. She then wants to pivot to show how aggressive she is on behalf of the Democrats.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Media Obsessed with January 6 To Smear Trump Supporters, and Biden's Bizarre Outburst, with Ben Shapiro and Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 976
She has never, ever interviewed a Democratic Party politician that way ever, where she's constantly interrupting, explicitly saying they're lying, just like those moderators at ABC News did, where they never fact-checked Kamala or anything she said, despite the multiple lies they only gave to Trump.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Media Obsessed with January 6 To Smear Trump Supporters, and Biden's Bizarre Outburst, with Ben Shapiro and Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 976
And then in this case, again, I have to say the fact that that was after the debate, every American of any kind of political stripe who is being remotely honest, saw with their own eyes, not for the first time that Joe Biden was not just cognitively declined, but cognitively crippled. And then they're sitting there saying there's no evidence for that.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Media Obsessed with January 6 To Smear Trump Supporters, and Biden's Bizarre Outburst, with Ben Shapiro and Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 976
And then they turn around and wonder, why is nobody listening to us? Why is everybody turning us off? Why does everybody distrust us? And they complain about this endlessly. The fact that, oh, there are these other podcasts and independent media that people turn to and they're so angry about it. They think it's so dangerous that no one listens to them anymore. They never look inward.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Media Obsessed with January 6 To Smear Trump Supporters, and Biden's Bizarre Outburst, with Ben Shapiro and Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 976
She should just look at that one interview she did, just that one. And the answer lies right in there. Right. So, so flagrantly.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Media Obsessed with January 6 To Smear Trump Supporters, and Biden's Bizarre Outburst, with Ben Shapiro and Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 976
Well, just add one thing like on what you said with that interview with Ta-Nehisi Coates and even going back to Kirsten Walker's interview of Doug Burgum. I actually think that journalists should be adversarial when they're interviewing people that way. The problem is they have to be adversarial to everybody. That's supposed to be the role. People with influence, people who come on.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Media Obsessed with January 6 To Smear Trump Supporters, and Biden's Bizarre Outburst, with Ben Shapiro and Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 976
And if you're only adversarial when one view is being expressed, but not the other, that's when questions arise. That's your agenda. I bring this up every time, not to praise you, but just because it's true. Like I remember back in 2014, 2015, when I didn't even know you and there was a political profile of you.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Media Obsessed with January 6 To Smear Trump Supporters, and Biden's Bizarre Outburst, with Ben Shapiro and Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 976
And that's one of the things I said about you was like, just take a look at how she interviews Republican politicians. I know you loved DeSantis during the campaign, but interviewed him extremely aggressively because that's your job. And the problem is so often they don't do that job. They do it only for politicized ends, not journalistic ones.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Media Obsessed with January 6 To Smear Trump Supporters, and Biden's Bizarre Outburst, with Ben Shapiro and Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 976
As for the whole, we should have covered this more, she's of course right. But I think there needed to be a discussion, because it's a little bit easy to say now, about why wasn't there more coverage of that? There were a couple of reporters who were trying, like Alex Thompson at Axios. Oh, sorry, Axios. Yeah, one of them. You might as well just confuse them. They're the same.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Media Obsessed with January 6 To Smear Trump Supporters, and Biden's Bizarre Outburst, with Ben Shapiro and Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 976
But yeah, Alex Thompson, I think he's at Axios now. He was at Politico. He was on this for a long time.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Media Obsessed with January 6 To Smear Trump Supporters, and Biden's Bizarre Outburst, with Ben Shapiro and Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 976
And the problem was, and I was thinking about this when I was listening to Kristen Walker too, is if you're one of those journalists who deviates just a little bit, if you're in corporate media and television, in the op-ed page of the New York Times, Washington Post, and you deviate just a little bit, you actually do start asking those questions.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Media Obsessed with January 6 To Smear Trump Supporters, and Biden's Bizarre Outburst, with Ben Shapiro and Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 976
you get mobbed, attacked by the people who you think matter, namely liberals. And it's a very aggressive and effective form of discipline to say, if you do do your job, we are going to spend three days on Twitter, you know, demonizing you, attacking you, trying to ruin your reputation. And no one wants that.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Media Obsessed with January 6 To Smear Trump Supporters, and Biden's Bizarre Outburst, with Ben Shapiro and Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 976
And so they get into this mindset of, oh, I better perform the way everybody expects me to perform, which is tell anyone defending Trump that they're lying, interrupt them, say we can't have those lies on the air and then switch to defending Biden. And so much of that dynamic was about that. So I'm glad Jan Crawford said that. But I think they needed some self-reflection.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Media Obsessed with January 6 To Smear Trump Supporters, and Biden's Bizarre Outburst, with Ben Shapiro and Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 976
Like, why was that so uncovered?
The Megyn Kelly Show
Media Obsessed with January 6 To Smear Trump Supporters, and Biden's Bizarre Outburst, with Ben Shapiro and Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 976
Yeah, I mean, it's so easy to dump on Joe Biden now because Joe Biden is never going to run again. No one needs him anymore for anything. And ever since he was forced out of the race, they kind of started turning on him. But here's the thing. Kamala Harris as vice president was not only one of the closest people to Joe Biden, at least in theory.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Media Obsessed with January 6 To Smear Trump Supporters, and Biden's Bizarre Outburst, with Ben Shapiro and Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 976
I mean, she met with him all the time, that's for sure. But she also has a constitutional duty as vice president. There's the 25th Amendment. to alert people if the person who has all this power, who's running the executive branch, who's the commander in chief of the armed forces, is incapable of doing the job.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Media Obsessed with January 6 To Smear Trump Supporters, and Biden's Bizarre Outburst, with Ben Shapiro and Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 976
And not only didn't she do that, she was one of the most overt liars in defending Joe Biden before he dropped out, insisting that he was sharp as a tack and all of that. Why isn't there, if this is a genuine sort of let's figure out what we did wrong kind of moment, Simply attacking Joe Biden is really kind of pointless.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Media Obsessed with January 6 To Smear Trump Supporters, and Biden's Bizarre Outburst, with Ben Shapiro and Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 976
And even sort of saying, hey, we have to figure out what to avoid next time getting caught. That's even worse. I mean, Kamala Harris is probably going to run for governor. She's talking about running for president again. She bears a lot of accountability for perpetuating this. And this is not a trivial lie. This is fundamental to our democracy.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Media Obsessed with January 6 To Smear Trump Supporters, and Biden's Bizarre Outburst, with Ben Shapiro and Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 976
And you don't see any accountability trying to be brought to her by these journalists because she's still valuable to them.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Media Obsessed with January 6 To Smear Trump Supporters, and Biden's Bizarre Outburst, with Ben Shapiro and Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 976
You know, Megan, I think this is like kind of an intangible, but I think one of the biggest problems with Kamala Harris as a politician is that she was constantly petrified of saying something that would bring embarrassment to her. And that insecurity generally comes from a lack of knowledge. You know, if you're supposed to know about something, but you don't, you want to be as vague as possible.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Media Obsessed with January 6 To Smear Trump Supporters, and Biden's Bizarre Outburst, with Ben Shapiro and Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 976
She spent her entire life until she got to the Senate, you know, six months ago saying doing law, she was a lawyer, she was a prosecutor, totally perfect profession, nothing to be embarrassed about with that. All she knew though, all she really knows is the law, she knows criminal law, she knows how to prosecute, or at least she knows about prosecution.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Media Obsessed with January 6 To Smear Trump Supporters, and Biden's Bizarre Outburst, with Ben Shapiro and Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 976
she never thought about, studied, and got involved with foreign policy, economic policy, immigration policy, securing the root causes in Central America of instability and poverty in those countries, the things that she was supposed to be able to speak on. And she knew she was a fraud. That's why for three years, we never heard from her except in the most scripted ways. And they tried to
The Megyn Kelly Show
Media Obsessed with January 6 To Smear Trump Supporters, and Biden's Bizarre Outburst, with Ben Shapiro and Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 976
can find her that way during the election too. Remember when she wouldn't even sit down with a reporter for so long and then she finally didn't. It was like the friendliest reporters. And her worst moments were often with the friendliest reporters like on Stephen Colbert and The View when she's like, I wouldn't be different than Joe Biden at all.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Media Obsessed with January 6 To Smear Trump Supporters, and Biden's Bizarre Outburst, with Ben Shapiro and Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 976
I can't think of anything that I would have done differently. She's a terrible politician. She knows almost nothing. And the entire attempt to foist her on the country with no votes, no debates, no democracy, was at least as bad as what the media did in concealing Joe Biden's mental decline.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Media Obsessed with January 6 To Smear Trump Supporters, and Biden's Bizarre Outburst, with Ben Shapiro and Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 976
You go back and look at how Kamala Harris was talked about all the way up until the time that she was bequeathed to us by Nancy Pelosi and Barack Obama. She was a national joke. There were all these stories in liberal outlets. She was firing her staff constantly. She had no role to play. Everything she did turned to crap. She was... not trusted to do anything.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Media Obsessed with January 6 To Smear Trump Supporters, and Biden's Bizarre Outburst, with Ben Shapiro and Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 976
She was never considered, she ran for president once before and dropped out before the first vote was counted despite having every structural advantage, massive cash from California where she comes from, a huge campaign structure. She was a historic figure as a black woman, so the media loved her.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Media Obsessed with January 6 To Smear Trump Supporters, and Biden's Bizarre Outburst, with Ben Shapiro and Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 976
She had every conceivable advantage, but she was such a terrible politician, she couldn't even make it to Iowa. And then suddenly we were supposed to be told, and she was chosen by Joe Biden because he had promised to choose a Black woman for his vice presidency. That's the reality. He only had two or three choices, none of which were particularly good. And that is the truth.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Media Obsessed with January 6 To Smear Trump Supporters, and Biden's Bizarre Outburst, with Ben Shapiro and Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 976
And the media on a dime, Megan, turned around and tried to convince us that she was like this historic pioneer, this generational political talent who was going to inspire young Americans. come out to droves and crush Donald Trump once and for all. The whole thing was a fraud. It was a complete fraud. It lasted about three weeks.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Media Obsessed with January 6 To Smear Trump Supporters, and Biden's Bizarre Outburst, with Ben Shapiro and Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 976
And then the whole house came crashing down because it was built on no foundation.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Media Obsessed with January 6 To Smear Trump Supporters, and Biden's Bizarre Outburst, with Ben Shapiro and Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 976
And the reality is that Joe Biden knew that, which is one of the reasons why he was so determined not to drop out. And I don't blame him for on some level thinking that he would have been the better candidate because it's hard to imagine how somebody could have been worse. And on top, you know, I mean, he's at least proven over 50 years that he is a adept politician.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Media Obsessed with January 6 To Smear Trump Supporters, and Biden's Bizarre Outburst, with Ben Shapiro and Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 976
He knows how to win elections. You know, in 2020, he won. He was in the Senate for one for vice president. Yeah. It's like even with his brain melting, there's still like a part of him that you just kind of like you wind him up and he's like, hey, I'm Scranton Joe. And it's like an instinct that she completely lacks. So I almost understand his his bitterness.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Media Obsessed with January 6 To Smear Trump Supporters, and Biden's Bizarre Outburst, with Ben Shapiro and Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 976
But the Democratic Party was in a huge bind because they knew she was not even close to their strongest candidate. The problem was, had they chosen Gavin Newsom or Josh Shapiro or even Gretchen Whitmer,
The Megyn Kelly Show
Media Obsessed with January 6 To Smear Trump Supporters, and Biden's Bizarre Outburst, with Ben Shapiro and Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 976
There were a lot of people on the base of the party on whom they rely who would have said, how dare you pass the black woman by who was elected, who was at your side, who was next in line and choose a white man or a white candidate instead. And the identity politics framework that they created that they thought would help them has become their Frankenstein. And they were trapped.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Media Obsessed with January 6 To Smear Trump Supporters, and Biden's Bizarre Outburst, with Ben Shapiro and Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 976
They could not they were damned if they did and damned if they didn't. And they hoped that the media would be able to create enough of a fraud that it would lift her and hide her flaws. And it just didn't come close to working.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Media Obsessed with January 6 To Smear Trump Supporters, and Biden's Bizarre Outburst, with Ben Shapiro and Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 976
You know, despite how much I criticize media and journalists, or if you want to call them that, journalists, if you're being very generous, I actually believe in journalism a lot. Like a lot of times I'm criticizing it because I want us as a country to have good journalism. It's absolutely crucial. And one of the things that... sickens me the most when I listen to montages like that.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Media Obsessed with January 6 To Smear Trump Supporters, and Biden's Bizarre Outburst, with Ben Shapiro and Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 976
The lying is very apparent. It's the herd behavior. They read from scripts. I don't mean this metaphorically. I believe they get literal scripts. You know, like two weeks ago when Elon Musk spoke out against the spending bill and It ended up being sabotage.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Media Obsessed with January 6 To Smear Trump Supporters, and Biden's Bizarre Outburst, with Ben Shapiro and Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 976
And you saw this coordinated effort by the Democrats to call Elon Musk the president to try and drive a wedge between him and Trump, which was so obvious. Go look at how many Democratic politicians, how many people in media did that overnight. They all copy one another. They speak to one another first. They pick up on each other's language cues. There's no individuality.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Media Obsessed with January 6 To Smear Trump Supporters, and Biden's Bizarre Outburst, with Ben Shapiro and Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 976
It's supposed to be like a profession of iconoclasts, iconoclastic politicians. you know, adversarial spirit. And there's none of that. So not only are there all lies in that montage that you showed, it's all so redundant. You turn on any one of those channels, you read any of their op-eds, they're all saying exactly the same thing. It's coordinated lying on top of just lying.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Media Obsessed with January 6 To Smear Trump Supporters, and Biden's Bizarre Outburst, with Ben Shapiro and Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 976
I think it's very healthy, despite, obviously, that political rhetoric sometimes gets overheated. That's just the nature of people fighting about things that they strongly believe in. When I, you know, the reason I got interested in the Trump movement in 2016, I had never found Republican politics interesting before that, to be perfectly honest.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Media Obsessed with January 6 To Smear Trump Supporters, and Biden's Bizarre Outburst, with Ben Shapiro and Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 976
It was the Republican Party of George Bush and John McCain and Mitt Romney. It was very predictable, very kind of staid, very pro-establishment. was because Donald Trump in the 2016 campaign, which remember was architected by Steve Bannon, Bannon's vision was to cleanse not just Washington or the Democratic Party, but the Republican Party of a lot of its most central sacred orthodoxies.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Media Obsessed with January 6 To Smear Trump Supporters, and Biden's Bizarre Outburst, with Ben Shapiro and Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 976
Steve Bannon's plan for Donald Trump, as soon as he got into office, was to raise taxes on the largest corporations and the richest, use that money for a bipartisan infrastructure deal that would renew America and put people back to work, and then number three, bargain with that to get funding for the wall. That was Steve Bannon's nationalistic populist vision.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Media Obsessed with January 6 To Smear Trump Supporters, and Biden's Bizarre Outburst, with Ben Shapiro and Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 976
He ended up losing a power struggle to Jared Kushner, a much more traditional Republican, and the first Bush administration... The Trump administration ended up doing things like cutting corporate taxes and the like. But that was the ethos out of which the MAGA movement began.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Media Obsessed with January 6 To Smear Trump Supporters, and Biden's Bizarre Outburst, with Ben Shapiro and Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 976
It's the reason why they hated Jeb Bush and the Bush family and those Republican lobbyists and why Trump was able to mow one of them down after the next despite all Republican establishment money behind everyone except him.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Media Obsessed with January 6 To Smear Trump Supporters, and Biden's Bizarre Outburst, with Ben Shapiro and Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 976
And this conflict that absolutely still exists, there are a lot of people who are very, very wealthy, who see themselves as citizens of the world, who are part of these gigantic corporations. Elon does business in a lot of places with Tesla, like China and India.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Media Obsessed with January 6 To Smear Trump Supporters, and Biden's Bizarre Outburst, with Ben Shapiro and Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 976
They have a very different worldview than the nationalist populist who got behind Steve Bannon and whose vision is very, very different on things like immigration. And you see this playing out and you're going to absolutely see it playing out. And it's so ironic, Megan, because you ask any liberal and they'll say, oh, the MAGA movement, conservatives, they're a leader worshiping cult.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Media Obsessed with January 6 To Smear Trump Supporters, and Biden's Bizarre Outburst, with Ben Shapiro and Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 976
Everybody is told what to do. They get into line behind Trump. That's such projection. That's what the Democratic Party has become. The But it's not any longer. It's a party of lockstep adherence. All the action of ideological conflict and vibrancy and political debate is on the right.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Media Obsessed with January 6 To Smear Trump Supporters, and Biden's Bizarre Outburst, with Ben Shapiro and Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 976
Just imagine how demented you have to be to believe that. But I can go back and show you right around January 6th, I'm sure you covered it, for a year or two after at least, most Democrats were comparing it to Pearl Harbor and 9-11, saying this was the worst attack I mean, this is such insane desperation.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Media Obsessed with January 6 To Smear Trump Supporters, and Biden's Bizarre Outburst, with Ben Shapiro and Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 976
This is the sort of thing you do when you don't have anything to offer and you just hope by being as melodramatic as possible that Americans are going to side with you. And I mean, imagine what it's like, Megan, to wake up every day, go into their jobs, Remember, all the way up until the election, the main theme was Trump is Hitler. Trump's generals called him fascist.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Media Obsessed with January 6 To Smear Trump Supporters, and Biden's Bizarre Outburst, with Ben Shapiro and Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 976
You know, all that he wants to put Liz Cheney in front of a firing squad. Is he going to be a dictator on day one? Imagine saying those things over and over and over. And nobody listens. Trump crushes the Democrats. And you have to confront your own impotence, your own pointlessness, the fact that nobody trusts you any longer. They're fighting it.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Media Obsessed with January 6 To Smear Trump Supporters, and Biden's Bizarre Outburst, with Ben Shapiro and Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 976
They're not I'm not saying they're engaged in self-reflection, but deep down they know how discredited and pathetic they are. And they brought it all upon themselves with things like this.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Media Obsessed with January 6 To Smear Trump Supporters, and Biden's Bizarre Outburst, with Ben Shapiro and Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 976
Or Judaism. So let me just, this is the thing. Yeah, so exactly. So this goes back to what we were talking about before about journalists and interviewing people adversarially. If you see someone doing it to everyone, you can say, okay, that's what they do. That's kind of an important function. I remember when the Charlie Hebdo uh, murder happened in Paris.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Media Obsessed with January 6 To Smear Trump Supporters, and Biden's Bizarre Outburst, with Ben Shapiro and Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 976
And the idea was, no, we need to make sure that we retain the right to satirize everything, including Islam, including the things most sacred. That's a really important part of society. The problem is it's that, especially in Hollywood, just like with these journalists, they don't do it to everybody. They don't, they're not satirists. They're not adversarial interviewers.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Media Obsessed with January 6 To Smear Trump Supporters, and Biden's Bizarre Outburst, with Ben Shapiro and Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 976
They're highly politicized with an agenda that's constantly concealed yet very, very apparent. And Hollywood is one of those institutions in the United States that until very recently had been a very powerful and very popular that has basically collapsed. Nobody goes to these films any longer. Everything is very fragmented. You ask young people who they admire and who they think is most famous.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Media Obsessed with January 6 To Smear Trump Supporters, and Biden's Bizarre Outburst, with Ben Shapiro and Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 976
It's not Hollywood.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Media Obsessed with January 6 To Smear Trump Supporters, and Biden's Bizarre Outburst, with Ben Shapiro and Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 976
star making and star makers anymore it's people on the internet it's youtubers it's podcasters these are the people who they're following and one of the reasons why hollywood has lost so much of its cachet i think the same is true for the media and so many of other institutions is because they're constantly engaged in political advocacy masquerading as culture masquerading as journalism masquerading as whatever and they become increasingly transparent and people just don't trust them anymore i didn't see the film so i can't comment on that but that is definitely an overall trend
The Megyn Kelly Show
Media Obsessed with January 6 To Smear Trump Supporters, and Biden's Bizarre Outburst, with Ben Shapiro and Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 976
Always great to see you, Megan. Happy Insurrection Day.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
I think here's the reality, though, that for me, at least, is underpinning all of this, which is and this is something that actually Donald Trump said often and loudly in the 2016 campaign throughout 2015 in the primary and then into 2016 in the election, which is that the Republican Party establishment and the Democratic Party establishment, which is absolutely represented by people like Chuck Schumer and Hockey Jeffries.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
have a great deal in common with one another. They have differences like on social issues with abortion and trans issues and some of these kinds of cultural issues, they definitely have differences there that make it seem like they're constantly at each other's throat. But when it comes to economic policy, foreign policy, Their differences are really not that great.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
Obama said that, too, that the Republicans are trying to depict him as this radical, when in reality, the Republican and Democratic parties fight within the 40-yard line. So when it comes to these demands that Chuck Schumer and Hakeem Jeffries or the Democrats or whatever do more to fight Trump and attack Trump, it seems like they just want this kind of...
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
This sort of imagery of fighting, this kind of surface fight, but there's nothing for them to really fight on. Now, Trump won in 2016, in my view, because he ran against both the Republican and the Democratic Party establishments. He had to do because his main opponent in the primary was Jeb Bush, the ultimate figure of the Republican establishment. And he still continues to do that.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
So there definitely are some differences Democrats have with Trump. The problem is that what are Democrats gonna pretend to stand for? They can't agree on that amongst themselves. They are very much shaped by their big donor base that has a lot of views that have a lot in common with the Republican Party establishment. And I think they're just very confused about who they are.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
And that's the problem, Megan. It's like, if you don't know who you are or you're afraid to say who you are, you can like wave your fist in the air and fight and say you're going to do this and that to resist. But ultimately, no one really finds it convincing because you're not really fighting for anything. You're just fighting for the sake of fighting.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
And I don't think I think that's what makes the Democrats kind of pathetic right now in the eyes of most people is that they're just afraid to stand for anything. They're confused about what they stand for, whose interests they serve. They really they're just a mess. And that's the big problem to me.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
I mean, think about this, Megan. These people, Kamala Harris and Tim Walz, ran for president and vice president as the Democratic nominee just three months ago. And three months later, the vice presidential candidate is getting 1% of the vote among Democrats as to who represents the party.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
I haven't looked, but I would be willing to stake a lot on the fact that when somebody becomes the nominee of a major party, even if they lose the election, a few months after that, if you ask people who's the face of the party, a lot of people are going to say that person because it's the obvious choice. But I think Democrats do feel that loser vibe, like they need to do something else.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
I think they're embarrassed about themselves and their party, and they should be. And like, even in this, in that clip, like Tim also is like, you know, we have to fight the primal scream of people. We have to fight. But how and for what? And I think when they originally presented Tim Walz, it was like a gift to the left wing of the party, like to the Bernie AOC wing.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
But you didn't really see much of that during the campaign because everything that Kamala Harris has always done as vice president, and I think even before senators, what she always, except in that one area that she really knows well, which is criminal law because of her being a prosecutor, Every time she speaks, she feels like she's extremely afraid of saying the wrong thing.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
And they infuse that into Tim Walz. And there's a lot of Democratic Party leaders who have that sort of hesitation when they speak. And even the ones who are now trying to say, like, let's fight, let's fight is an easy thing to say. That's still, again, saying we're not Trump. We have to resist what Trump is doing. But what would you be doing? You know, what do you want to see different?
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
And they still seem just very petrified to say out of fear of offending voters and donors and consultants in the media. And that ultimately is the thing that not political junkies, but just like ordinary citizens who pay some attention to politics, but not constantly. That's the thing they feel more than anything.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
Oh, God, it's so cringy. I mean, the contrast between these two things is really interesting, right? Because Gavin Newsom is actually angering the liberal base because while you are looking at this from the perspective of people like Charlie Kirk or Steve Bannon, I guess you had Michael Savage, someone else coming on shortly in that vein, that they're helping Gavin Newsom.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
From the liberal perspective, Gavin Newsom is not inviting them on to fight with them or to be confrontational with them, but kind of placate them, almost be friendly with them in a way that, as you said, is designed to show that he's like a more reasonable guy. And they're infuriated by this.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
I don't think Gavin Newsom – he may be helping himself in terms of general election prospects, but in terms of the primary where you need like the real hardcore militants – He's alienating a lot of people who just a couple months ago were very open to supporting him.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
But I guess, you know, his strategy is I have to convince Democrats that not just that I'm the candidate they want, but that I'm the candidate that can win. Whereas, as you say, Chris Murphy has been told like, oh, the great approach is to go online and sound like, you know, a hardcore social media fanatic. And, you know, Megan, you see this so much.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
Like, I don't know if you saw, like, when Chuck Schumer was doing his rounds of media stuff. He has this new book out about the crisis of anti-Semitism. But of course, like, in the course of doing this book, he's mostly being asked about this controversy that he's fallen into.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
And he'll do things like, I saw this in three interviews at least, where he'll be like, and these guys in the White House, he's bastards. And then he's like, oh, sorry, I didn't mean that. Like as though he's just so enraged that he accidentally called them bastards. But he did it like three times, proving that it was scripted. And, you know, a lot of them- Did you hear me say bastards?
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
Yeah, exactly. I called them bastards. That's how you know I'm fighting. And, you know, he had that like thing where he went and did that chant like, we will win. We will win with those like elderly Democratic members of Congress surrounding him, one of whom was waving his cane.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
Great to be with you, Megan.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
And, you know, like, you know, like all these things that they keep asking, like, you know, who's going to be our liberal Joe Rogan? Or they see Trump using profanity and therefore they think that they have to use profanity to to relate to the ordinary person. It doesn't work like the reason Joe Rogan. became so popular is because he's so authentic. And he's open to all different things.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
He's not a partisan. He's not an ideologue. And the reason people like Trump is because they know that even if they don't agree with him, he's never trying to deceive them or bullshit them by like, presenting a mask to them that isn't who they really are.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
So when you have politicians like Kamala, who suddenly change accents based on who she's speaking to, or Democratic members of Congress who never used this kind of language before, who now suddenly want to sound like they're social media influencers, it's embarrassing. It's cringy. Yes, some hardcore Democrats will respond, but mostly it's just embarrassing.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
With a blue base, yes. I mean, first of all, I have to say, I find it so funny when you ask a politician who's obviously extremely ambitious, oh, do you think, would you be willing to step up into this promotion, into this elevated political position? They have to pretend like, this is not something I've been thinking about. Like, Chris Murphy is drooling about being the Senate minority leader.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
He goes to bed dreaming about it every night, and he has to be like, that's not something worth... the two of them. And they may be inextricably linked. But in any event, yes.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
But here's the problem, Megan, is that I can show you in 2016 and 2017 and 2018, all throughout the first Trump campaign, the first Trump presidency, all throughout the campaign again in 2020 and then in 2024, Democrats saying exactly these same things. We're not going to have a democracy if Trump wins in 2020. This may be the last election we ever have. If you ask Chuck Schumer,
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
what he thinks about Trump, he would say exactly what Chris Murphy said there, which is like, yeah, I think Trump's an authoritarian. I think he's threatening democracy. Trump, Chuck Schumer has been saying that. So this is, I think the Democrats problem is this is what the base of the party wants to hear.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
And if you want to boost your social media numbers, if you want to get more cable hits, you know, if you want to seem like you're more influential on the party than you were previously, these are the things that you have to say. But in terms of actually defeating Trump, and not just Trump, but the Trump movement, the Republican Party is led by Trump, this has proven not to work.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
People don't believe that Trump is a threat to democracy. Now, maybe with some of the things that they're doing that I actually do find controversial, but not... huge departures from the tradition of presidents, that message will resonate more with a broader base of people. But I don't think so.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
I don't think they will ever come to see Donald Trump as some sort of Mussolini figure or Hitler figure or someone threatening American elections. That's just not how the American people, by and large, perceive Trump. And this is an easy message. He's a threat to our democracy. They've been using it for a decade, though, and it's just not working.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
And I don't understand why they think it's going to work now.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
Yeah. You know, I have to say there's a part of that with which I can empathize, because if you run for president, your entire family is subjected to immense amount of public scrutiny. Every aspect of your life is picked apart and disclosed. And the role of First Lady is not necessarily the freest role.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
There's expectations of what you're supposed to do and can't do, the decorum that limit to what you can do. So I'm not necessarily going to say that I think it's outrageous that that wasn't something that she wanted for her life or expected for her life. But if that's really how she feels – and there's been reports for a long time that that is how she feels – It has to produce a lot of resentment.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
I mean, he ended up doing what she insists she didn't want him to do. And she did end up being first lady for eight years. And if that really is the kind of thing that she disliked doing, you have to kind of think that there's something in her that's probably pretty angry about that. You know, I also should say that she got immense benefits from having had that role.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
She seemed at times to enjoy it. I mean, she was kind of very regal and one might say queen-like in her behavior, but since then too, both of them got extremely rich. They spend most of their time on, you know, Richard Branson's yacht or in Martha's Vineyard at their sprawling estate or in their, you know, multi-million dollar DC townhouse.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
So this kind of like, I wasn't sure I didn't want this seems unconvincing to me as well in a lot of ways.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
Yeah, I mean, me too. First of all, I do often want to be a little bit humble about our ability to judge a relationship from afar. I mean, there were certainly all kinds of speculation that the Clintons were going to divorce the minute they got their chance, and here they are in their mid-70s, and they're still married. The Trumps too. Yeah, I mean, exactly.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
Oh, there was all kinds of speculation about Melania hating Trump and wouldn't even... And the reality is, even if you do love your spouse, there are times you're going to fight with them. The only reasons that you get those negative emotions is because you love them and care enough. What I find weird, Megan, is...
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
I can't imagine going on a podcast publicly and talking about what, obviously, I do think those resentments are real that she's sharing. These kind of complaints about your husband. Not like, you know, you could do it in a light way, in a humorous way, like the differences between a husband and wife or whatever. But she seems like that is pretty...
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
I don't know, pretty intimate and pretty deep about what she seems to find unsatisfying about her marriage to Barack Obama in a way that, I don't know, just makes me uncomfortable. That's the sort of thing that you work on with a marriage counselor or in therapy or something. Why is she saying so much, as you say, that's very negative? The only reason we know her is because of her husband.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
Um, and yeah, you're right. You know, I went and worked for a major law firm, uh, when I graduated law school on, on wall street and it, you know, I left in two years cause it was so soul crushing. And all of this that she's complaining about is what lifted her into this figure that she benefited from in so many ways.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
It's possible that some of that is being generated by this kind of liberal angst, this kind of dissatisfaction with Democratic Party leadership, but this perception that they're, quote unquote, not fighting hard enough, not fighting Trump hard enough, whatever that might mean. So maybe if you ask liberals now, what do you think of the Democratic Party?
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
Like she writes books and they go to the New York times bestseller list because she was married to Barack Obama. I don't know. I find that strange. Like you have to have a lot of negative resentment inside of you toward your husband. If you start a podcast and you immediately start kind of complaining about what happens inside your marriage and blame him for it.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
Yeah, honestly, that really struck me too. I mean, over the last, I think like six years now, it's kind of almost been like a conservative paranoia that the Democratic Party was maneuvering constantly to get rid of whoever was going to be their nominee and replace him with Michelle Obama.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
That was in 2020 what we heard, in 2024 what we heard, because a lot of polls showed that she had this kind of popularity. But I think it was very surface level. Like it's easy to be popular if you've never run for office before, if you haven't really staked out a lot of positions and haven't had to.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
We saw that with Kamala Harris, the way, you know, at first she seemed like she was this cultural phenomenon and then she had to say what she believed in and couldn't and it all kind of collapsed. But, you know, I see it the other way.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
They'd be more inclined, many of them would be, to say we don't approve of that. But it's clearly much broader than that. I think that's just one factor. The problem is, if you ask me what was the worst problem with the Kamala Harris campaign, it'd be very difficult to answer given how many problems that campaign had. But if I were forced to choose the worst, I would say that she never...
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
It's like I could see huge numbers of people turning into Michelle Obama's podcast at the start just because, oh, it's something new and we find this person interesting. And then tailing off and she becomes less interesting. The fact that it's starting with these pathetic numbers, yeah. You know, I think it does illustrate what you're saying.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
I saw a clip where she and her brother were debating whether or not a hot dog is a sandwich and trying to, you know, it's like, and again, this is what I mean. It's like Michelle Obama lives the ultimate jet setting life. She hangs around billionaires all the time. She's at the most, you know, like ostentatious galas. She's wearing, you know, $50,000 and $100,000 gowns everywhere.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
And so then I'm trying to try and be relatable by talking to your brother about such a boring, you know, it's a hot dog, a sandwich. Wow. You think it isn't what this is? I just, no one's going to listen to this. Why would they?
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
Yeah, there's nothing charismatic about Craig, brother Craig. Although I will say, like, that is why I kind of thought she was being authentic in these complaints and grievances about Barack Obama, because she does seem close to her brother. She does seem to be talking to him in this way that maybe is more intimate.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
She'd be willing to say things to him that she wouldn't be willing to say to a generalized interviewer. So I don't know. Maybe that's what they thought was going to be the appeal of the podcast. But it just seems very narcissistic, like just these two siblings talking about themselves and their relationship. I don't know.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
committed to believing in anything, to standing for anything. Americans, by the end of the campaign, were like, I don't even know who she is, let alone what she really believes in. What are her real convictions? What motivates her? With Trump, you always know, for better or for worse, from people's perception, he doesn't hide what he believes. Quite the opposite. So the contrast was extreme.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
And I think in the Democratic Party more broadly, basically going back to 2015, 2016, they've defined themselves by being horrified by Donald Trump, by being aghast by Donald Trump, by being fearful of Donald Trump, by not being Donald Trump. But there's no positive vision. There's no affirmative agenda that Americans can look at and say, oh, this is what I like.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
Okay, so there's some things I agree with in what you said and some things I don't. So you repeatedly said, and I think it's totally appropriate, that these are alleged gang members. One of the reasons I stopped practicing law and started writing about politics and became a journalist in 2005, 2004, 2005 –
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
was because there were a lot of what I regarded as excesses, attacks on civil liberties in the name of the war on terror. One of the leading ones of which was that they were putting people in Guantanamo.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
None of those detainees at Guantanamo ever had any even one-time right to go into court and contest the allegations against them, that they were part of terrorist organizations, that they had participated in. in Al Qaeda or any attacks on anyone. And as it turns out, a lot of them, even the US government admits, were actually innocent.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
That's why we ended up letting them go in so many cases, because they actually were not terrorists. They were not part of members of terrorist organizations, and yet they were snatched away from their countries, brought to the middle of the Atlantic Ocean, put in very repressive conditions, treated quite brutally. And I understand that in wartime, some of those things are going to happen.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
You, you know, are going to bomb someplace where a lot of the enemy combatants are, and you're going to end up killing a lot of civilians. And of course, you're going to end up imprisoning some people unjustly. But I think we have to be very careful for that reason about when we really declare something as a war and when we don't precisely because the powers of the government escalate dramatically.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
So even if you see a softening in approval ratings for Trump and you see it a little bit, not very much, but on certain issues at least, it doesn't translate into higher support for the Democratic Party because they don't provide an alternative. It's just, we're going to fight Trump, but based on what? Based on what set of values or policies or even ideology? Nobody knows.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
Are we really at war with these gangs or are these gangs more like horrific and violent criminals. And I think one of the things we have to realize is that human institutions, by definition, are going to make mistakes and are going to err. And these are not people just being deported, which would be fine if they were sent back to their countries of origin.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
They're being put into a prison that is probably five times worse than Guantanamo in El Salvador. And if some of them are not actually gang members and there's no opportunity for them to contest the charges against them, You have to say that is an unjust outcome.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
And the question is, if it's not a judge who decides when a president is acting unconstitutionally, exceeding his powers under the Constitution, who is it who judges that?
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
Except there were a lot of times in every Democratic presidency, including Joe Biden's, when conservatives went into a district court to argue that Joe Biden was extending his powers under the Constitution, like when they were forcing big tech companies to censor American citizens.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
Right. You're absolutely right. He's at the apex. The question is, is he without constraints? I mean, in 2008, the Supreme Court in the Bumadini case actually did rule that the detainees at Guantanamo had a one-time right of habeas corpus to go into a federal court and argue that their detention was unjust, even though we basically were treating that as a war, the war on terror.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
I guess what I'm saying is if all a president has to do is treat any kind of criminality or any kind of social problem and just declares it to be a war, like an actual invasion or a war, I don't think this is the sort of thing that most Americans think of when we think of wars being at war or the kind of precedent that has traditionally recognized this power.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
I don't necessarily disagree with your prediction about what the court's going to do, the Supreme Court is going to do. This is a Supreme Court that has given great deference to presidential power, especially when it comes to foreign policy more, not just now, but as you say, historically. The one thing I want to quibble with, though, is that I remember being told that
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
that we don't need to worry about Guantanamo because it was only the worst of the worst that were being put there. They were all terrorists. The government knew they were terrorists. And it turned out a lot of the people, not just a few, but a lot of the people who were put there ended up being falsely accused, which is always going to happen. Now, maybe we say, look, we don't care between...
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
you know, allowing people to be in our country and just punishing them unjustly based on false accusations. We prefer the latter. But I do think, you know, because deportations usually, which nobody objects to, that's what Trump ran on, means taking these people and sending them back to their country of origin, but they're not put in a prison.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
Here they're being sent to, on purpose, one of the most repressive prison systems in the world, which is the drug dealing and terrorism prison in El Salvador. And if they're not really gang members, If they're just in the country illegally, is that a just outcome? And is that an outcome that even if it's unjust, we're willing to live with for the ability to solve the broader problem?
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
I'm not that convinced. I don't like people being unjustly accused or punished.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
As you know, but not necessarily to an El Salvador in prison.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
Sure. I mean, first of all, I've been defending free speech as probably my most important value, not just as a journalist, but as a lawyer for 30 years. I remember being inspired by what the ACLU did in Skokie, Illinois, where they defended the right of American Nazi party members to march through Skokie, which was a town of...
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
Holocaust survivors wearing Nazi uniforms, even though the lawyers who did that were Jewish lawyers and they had Jewish donors, it was a very overwhelmingly Jewish group. And they still defended the right of free speech of the people who are Nazis, who only 30 years before had tried to exterminate Jews from the earth. Because I think the principle is so important.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
I've seen many times people say they believe in the principle when it comes to their own allies and then suddenly start finding ways to justify censorship by saying it's incitement or it's something else when it comes to the views they most disagree with.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
And I think that's what is important to recognize here is the Trump campaign, the Trump administration made very clear that they intend to go after and punish in a lot of ways people who are protesting the Israeli war in Gaza or Israel itself because the Trump administration are strong supporters of Israel.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
So we have to recognize the people they're going after have views that the Trump administration vehemently disagrees with. In the case of Mahmoud Khalil specifically, I've heard a lot of accusations about him, that he is a supporter of Hamas, that he engaged in intimidation of violence. There's no evidence of that.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
It is true that some of the protesters at Columbia engaged in bad acts, but you can't impute those to Mahmoud Khalil. I don't know if you saw, there was a Wall Street Journal reporting yesterday about who Khalil is. And a lot of the Jewish students at Columbia who are part of these encampments, part of these protests, and they did have a ton of American Jewish students as part of them.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
I've interviewed them. All stood up for Khalil and said the reason he was the mediator between our group and the administration is because he's trusted by all sides. He has defended Jewish students before. If he hears an anti-Semitic claim, he'll denounce it. He's actually been at the Shabbat dinners that they were holding.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
I'd like to know specifically on the record what he has done that makes this claim that he's a Hamas supporter or incited harassment and violence against Jewish students justifiable. Because I've looked very carefully and I don't see anything. He went on CNN and said his vision of the world is basically a branch of Hamas.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
Megan, the UNRWA was funded by the U.S. government for decades under both political parties. It's a part of the U.N. And I don't agree with that.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
I mean, if you're going to say that people who go work for the U.N. are now suspect of being terrorists or whatever, you know how many employees of the U.N. are and of UNRWA specifically?
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
Well, Israel is not a partisan position. Joe Biden fed Israel the arms and the money that they used to wage the war in Gaza. Joe Biden has long been one of the most stalwart supporters of Israel in all of Washington. Netanyahu has often said that.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
OK, let me just say this is so important about what these protests were in general and what the one at Columbia was, because I've interviewed a lot of Columbia students who participated and even organized these protests. Once again, many of whom are Jewish, many of whom are American Jews.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
There's tons of American Jews who were vehemently opposed to the Israeli war in Gaza and who went out and protested against it.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
They count. They still count as being Jewish.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
No, but they represent a significant minority. They had Shabbat dinners inside the encampment at Columbia because of how many Jewish students were there. And Khalil would go. Here's what the Wall Street Journal said. Khalil is someone who would even step in front of an aggressor to protect Jewish students and who is a believer in nonviolence.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
And here's what an American Jewish woman at Columbia said. I can state with full confidence that Mahmoud has never expressed support for Hamas. And she said she's an American Jewish woman who believes in the importance of Israel as a Jewish homeland. They talked about how often he would attend the Shabbat dinner inside the encampment. I think
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
You have no proof that he was ever stopping Jews from- His group. Okay, so that means, what I've spent two or three years arguing with liberals by arguing that they had wildly overstated what January 6th was and had unjustly prosecuted the people who were there, especially the ones who never engaged in violence. And what they would tell me is, what do you mean?
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
Here are the people who are beating police officers. This was not a nonviolent protest. And I would say, okay, well, punish the people who used violence against the police officers. This is different. You can't impute that to the entire protest.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
No, you're taking the worst acts.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
I think if you look at the people you named, obviously other than Obama, who's there because he was the president, and Kamala, who's there because she just got done being the nominee, but 9% is pathetic or whatever it was, 8%.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
the bill of rights still restricts what Marco Rubio can do. Even though he's the secretary of state, the bill of rights applies to green card holders. Supreme court has said that for 120 years. And if Joe Biden had said, I'm deporting Jordan Peterson because he's expressing a lot of dissent to my views and participating in protest against our policy. And I deem him a threat to foreign policy.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
Every conservative in the country would have said that is a threat to the constitution to do. I think it has to be reasonable.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
I think you're wildly mischaracterizing the point of this protest. I remember, you know, very well in 2002, people who were opposed to the U.S. invasion of Iraq were told, oh, they were Saddam Hussein supporters. And they would say, no, we're not Saddam Hussein supporters. We just don't think the U.S. should invade Iraq. Same thing now. If you don't support the
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
financing Ukraine, you're told, oh, you're a Putin supporter. And you say, no, I'm not a Putin supporter. I just don't want the U.S. involved in this war. That's a straw man. These protests were about- That's a straw man. Because these protests were against the Israeli war in Gaza. They were not defending- Hamas.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
That doesn't mean that you... No, that... The anti-Israel protesters modeled themselves after the student movements in the 1980s that were against the apartheid regime, the main demand of which was, we demand that you divest from apartheid South Africa. That's what these students are demanding, that we demand... That is a peaceful protest, not a violent one.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
Not yet.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
The three people that you named, AOC, Bernie, and Jasmine Crockett, for all the intense disagreements I have with them, are people who, in contrast to what I just got done saying, do actually believe in things and do actually say the things that they believe in
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
I'm having trouble about this issue of is criminality necessary. You keep accusing them of committing a crime. Megan, hundreds of Columbia students, hundreds, maybe thousands, were arrested throughout 2024 when the administration would call the NYPD on them. Khalil was never even arrested as part of those protests. It doesn't matter. He was never one of the aggressors. He was the mediator.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
He was somebody that the administration trusted, that the protesters trusted to try and bridge and deescalate. That was his role.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
I agree. That's the thing. He looks like a Hamas supporter to you, but that doesn't make him one. A lot of people look like things that they're not.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
Hundreds of New York of Columbia students were arrested. He was never. I think it matters a great deal because if you're not then deporting him because of criminality, you're admitting that you're you're deporting him because of his views and the view that is most sacred. That's not Trump administration. This is why he works Trump.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
No, but but there's no but these that if that's these claims, they have to be proven. If you're saying, oh, that's right.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
And I think most of all, what they're doing now is creating this kind of perception, this branding, this posture, like we are going to fight Trump on everything. And on some level, what the Democratic Party wants, what Democratic Party voters want, I think this poll shows it, is not just fighting with Trump, but somebody who at least believes in things.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
He wasn't.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
That's my understanding. He did not. He did. He was not that. All of them got arrested who occupied Hamilton Hall.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
The reason you need to turn him into a Hamas supporter is because Hamas is a designated terrorist organization, and that's how you then claim that he is deportable. But he has never been a Hamas supporter. He's an opponent of the Israeli war in Gaza. His argument is that that war has been incredibly indiscriminating, that it's a war crime. The International Criminal Court agrees with him.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
Many countries around the world agree with that view. He was protesting against a war, not in favor of a terrorist group. And that is why you think Jewish students are in favor of Hamas? I don't know. I know a lot of Jewish opponents of Israel. I don't know a single one of them who thinks that Hamas did on October 7th is justifiable.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
It's a weird name they've chosen for themselves. And if they support Hamas, Jewish voices for peace, that is an anti-war group.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
I do think it's important to note that support for Israel was one of the top two or three priorities of many top Trump officials. They campaigned on it. Miriam Adelson and other pro-Israel groups gave them a ton of money to make sure that that was a priority.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
And I think it's a huge coincidence to believe that they just suddenly found immigration problems and exactly the group that most opposes the policy that they most cherish. And I think that's where the free speech issues come in.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
And that was, you know, Bernie's campaign in 2016 and 2020 stood for a clear, affirmative agenda, which a lot of people disliked and a lot of people like. But you can't deny that. He did. And I think that's what this is showing above all else.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
You've had this faceless, soulless, very consultant-driven, artificial set of Democratic Party leaders who are petrified of saying the wrong word, going off script even a single time. And then you have Donald Trump just riffing every day on everything without the slightest regard for how people are going to react to the things that he's saying.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
I think you picked out the most important section, which is it's in that last one. It's sort of an attempt to acknowledge that the people who questioning and then dissenting from the pronouncements of Dr. Fauci and that entire establishment he leads ended up being correct.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
But she still has to preserve the idea that the only trustworthy views are found in places like the New York Times, not in that dirty sewage of independent media. So she has to say, even though they were right- They kind of had bad motives and were trying to discredit institutions. Obviously, the people who discredited these institutions, these scientific institutions, are the people who led them.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
And I think that that is what has made the Democratic Party, which is just like this...
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
And it wasn't just that they got it wrong. It's that the whole thing, starting all the way back in 2020 with that Lancet letter, that was engineered by Peter Daszak at EcoHealth Alliance who had a financial interest and a reputational interest in ensuring that nobody thought it was a lab leak since he himself had money to work with Wuhan on the very research that likely caused the leak.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
They allowed that person to be the sort of objective source. They hid his key role. And that's the letter that said, anybody suggesting a lab leak is engaged in racist disinformation and conspiracy mongering against our Chinese colleagues.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
very limp, neoliberal, vaguely kind of trying to be a center-left party, but never really saying much or believing in anything, I think that's what you're seeing in these polls among Democratic Party voters, is at least the people who are out there making a mockery of themselves, like Jasmine Crockett, which is why the media loves her, at least they're saying something.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
And they pretended to have a certainty about the origins of the COVID virus that they knew they didn't have because internally, all these people, including some of the ones who signed that, were saying, actually, I think a lab leak is more likely. And Fauci convinced them all that for the sake of science or something, they have to lie to the public. And that's exactly what they did.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
And even though I'm not going to sit here and say I knew from the very beginning that it was a lab leak, I'm not a scientist, I'm not an epidemiologist, I did observe and complained about the fact that there was no permission to debate these questions. If you had raised the issue of a lab leak,
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
including from Wuhan lab, you would have been censored off the internet by every major big tech platform. They didn't permit any questioning or debate about them. They destroyed people's reputations. And as it turns out, they were the ones who were wrong and not just wrong, but corruptly wrong. Now, this particular op-ed writer
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
has had some instances where she was deviating from COVID orthodoxy, but you cannot write an op-ed like this in the New York Times without acknowledging that the leading institution preventing this discussion, destroying people's reputations based on their correct opinions, was itself the New York Times and corporate media outlets like it. It's this attempt to rewrite-
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
history and say oh we're here to tell you the truth now so you can trust us when it's very easy now to say all this now that intelligence agencies have come out and said they think it's a lab leak and that's what's going on is an attempt to salvage reputations not to be truthful
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
I mean, it was such grotesque politicization of the science. I'll never, ever forget how they said you have to stay at home. You cannot leave your home under any circumstances, even if it's to go to your parents' funeral, you're a grandma killer, you're a sociopath if you leave your home.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
And then the Black Lives Matter protests erupt in the middle of 2020, four months later, and they're like, not only can you leave your home, you should leave your home because it's a huge public health risk to allow racism to fester. And they just radically revised their quote unquote expertise based on their political agenda. And this is exactly, it's so ironic, Megan, because
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
Their view of how COVID spread, which was, oh, these Chinese people have filthy, disgusting, unsanitary wet markets and they eat bats. And that's how this actually escaped was a much more racist theory than the view that, you know what? The Chinese have a very sophisticated research lab that we in the United States fund and work with. And perhaps they used insufficiently careful procedures.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
They don't seem super constrained.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
And that was the way more racist view, the one they were pushing. But ultimately, it didn't matter which was the racist view or not. The only thing that mattered was what actually happened. And by exploiting racism and xenophobia against the Chinese, these journalists- prevented the truth from even being discussed, let alone being let out.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
And I hope nobody falls for this now that the New York Times is on the side of truth. They're just engaged in reputational rehabilitation.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
Yeah, we're both very passionate and spirited advocates of things we believe. And I love the fact that we can have those conversations. And it only, for me at least, enhances my respect for you. So I really appreciate having me on to do that.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
Great seeing you, Megan. Thanks.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
Yeah, I mean, here's the thing. You had referenced earlier the fact that a lot of Republicans under Obama, especially the second term of Obama, wanted absolutely no compromise with the Obama administration, wanted nothing but pure resistance to everything that he did.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
John Boehner, when he was the House Speaker, used to feel boxed in because he wanted to do deals when deals could be done, but a lot of the base was vehemently opposed to any attempt to work with Democrats. And Obama, they wanted an opposition party. And on some level, Democrats are now in this same position where they don't want to do deals.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
They don't want to join hands with the Republicans and reach compromises. They just want an opposition party. I think the big difference is that if you go back and look at the Republicans in the first term of Obama, the second term of Obama, they had an agenda.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
Everybody understood what Paul Ryan or Mitt Romney or John McCain, what these people stood for, like what their values were, what their agenda was, the reason why they wanted to oppose the Obama administration. I go back to the fact that the Democrats have none of this. They just don't have any kind of affirmative agenda.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
And this is the thing that's different to the polling I think is so interesting between 2017 and now, because ever since Trump got elected that first term, Democrats and liberals have been feeding out on almost a decade of not just Trump has a wrong ideology or Trump has bad policies. Trump is a fascist. Trump is a Hitler figure. Trump's here to end American democracy.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
Trump is a stooge of the Kremlin. And if you really start feeding on those kinds of ideas and that kind of demonization and come to believe it, I think it makes sense to feel like, oh, we shouldn't be cooperating with Trump. The problem is, is that all of the things that liberals seem to want in these polls, that's all been tried.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
What did we hear throughout the last three to four months of the 2024 election? Trump is a fascist. Trump admires Hitler. Trump is going to end democracy. Trump is a stooge of Putin. These things have all been all over the place and they don't work. People don't believe that about Donald Trump. And that's why I think Democrats are so lost, this idea that we need to attack Trump even more.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
They have the media who has been doing that. The Democratic Party has been doing that. And apparently they just want to double down on this strategy that clearly isn't working for them.
The Megyn Kelly Show
The Vances Visit Greenland, Major MS-13 Arrest, Stefanik Withdraws Her UN Nomination: AM Update 3/28
This task force was architected in a very quick period of time and stood up immediately. And in fact, when Director Patel was confirmed within a day, he authorized this facility and these capabilities. General Bondi immediately came to lead it. And we found ourselves with truly one of a kind resources going to work.
The Megyn Kelly Show
The Vances Visit Greenland, Major MS-13 Arrest, Stefanik Withdraws Her UN Nomination: AM Update 3/28
And the minute that we had partners that would do this with us, then lists of five, six, 700 targets could be put together in collaboration with state police and federal authorities and our Department of Corrections. Critically important.
The Megyn Kelly Show
The Vances Visit Greenland, Major MS-13 Arrest, Stefanik Withdraws Her UN Nomination: AM Update 3/28
And I cannot emphasize enough the collaboration and support and leadership out of the new administration that is so different than what we saw in at least the previous three years of my administration.