Erin McGoff

Why are they so miserable? And you talk a lot about passive aggressiveness. I want to hear your answer as well. But when people are passive aggressive, it's because they lack an ability to communicate like an adult and professionally. And I think there are some instances where actually passive aggressive behavior or passive behavior is okay.

Why are they so miserable? And you talk a lot about passive aggressiveness. I want to hear your answer as well. But when people are passive aggressive, it's because they lack an ability to communicate like an adult and professionally. And I think there are some instances where actually passive aggressive behavior or passive behavior is okay.

Sometimes people might be trying to hint to you something. So something that I like to ask if you're not sure if somebody's being passive aggressive is, oh, did you mean that genuinely? Or were you trying to hint at something? Because you actually never know. Somebody might mean something really genuinely, but you're insecure about what's going on, so you're taking it in a passive-aggressive way.

Sometimes people might be trying to hint to you something. So something that I like to ask if you're not sure if somebody's being passive aggressive is, oh, did you mean that genuinely? Or were you trying to hint at something? Because you actually never know. Somebody might mean something really genuinely, but you're insecure about what's going on, so you're taking it in a passive-aggressive way.

Or they might be 100% just being a jerk and just being passive-aggressive. So when you ask them, hey, did you mean that genuinely or were you trying to hint at something? Then they either have to confront, no, I meant that genuinely, or they have to say, no, I was actually hinting at something.

Or they might be 100% just being a jerk and just being passive-aggressive. So when you ask them, hey, did you mean that genuinely or were you trying to hint at something? Then they either have to confront, no, I meant that genuinely, or they have to say, no, I was actually hinting at something.

Oh, so important. The way that you communicate with yourself is the most important person you will ever communicate with is yourself. I always say like my key to confidence is just being your own best friend, you know, talking to yourself the way that you would talk to a best friend. So, you know, if I look in the mirror and I hear that thought of, oh, I don't look very good today.

Oh, so important. The way that you communicate with yourself is the most important person you will ever communicate with is yourself. I always say like my key to confidence is just being your own best friend, you know, talking to yourself the way that you would talk to a best friend. So, you know, if I look in the mirror and I hear that thought of, oh, I don't look very good today.

Yeah, because they're defensive and they're insecure, and that's how they're communicating in a passive-aggressive manner. So if you fight fire with fire, yeah, it typically doesn't work out.

Yeah, because they're defensive and they're insecure, and that's how they're communicating in a passive-aggressive manner. So if you fight fire with fire, yeah, it typically doesn't work out.

I'm a little scared right now thinking of Chris.

I'm a little scared right now thinking of Chris.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I think tone with that is really important because it could be a little, should I read into that? You know, but you want to ask genuinely. Yeah.

And I think tone with that is really important because it could be a little, should I read into that? You know, but you want to ask genuinely. Yeah.

I imagine if my friend was saying that and what I would say to her and I'd be like, you're ridiculous. Like, it's OK. Just go take a shower. You know, so I like to keep it real with myself, but also give myself so much empathy and compassion because we're oftentimes our worst critics. So be your own best friend. I'm my own best friend.

I imagine if my friend was saying that and what I would say to her and I'd be like, you're ridiculous. Like, it's OK. Just go take a shower. You know, so I like to keep it real with myself, but also give myself so much empathy and compassion because we're oftentimes our worst critics. So be your own best friend. I'm my own best friend.

Two things. 100% of people who come to me, 99% come for two things. The first thing is interpersonal relationship dynamics. So they know what they feel and they know what they want to say. They just don't know how to say it.

Two things. 100% of people who come to me, 99% come for two things. The first thing is interpersonal relationship dynamics. So they know what they feel and they know what they want to say. They just don't know how to say it.

Hence why both of our accounts have been so popular is because people don't want to cause conflict and they don't want to say the wrong thing and they just wanna be understood. And oftentimes, Like you said, our childhood, the way we grew up, the way we saw communication styles, the way we learned how to communicate, it leads to an inability to be able to communicate properly as an adult.

Hence why both of our accounts have been so popular is because people don't want to cause conflict and they don't want to say the wrong thing and they just wanna be understood. And oftentimes, Like you said, our childhood, the way we grew up, the way we saw communication styles, the way we learned how to communicate, it leads to an inability to be able to communicate properly as an adult.

So learning the proper words can help us communicate better. So that's one thing is they just want to learn, how do I tell my boss I'm quitting? I get a lot of people who are just really anxious. How do I tell my coworker that they're micromanaging me? How do I tell my boss that they're MIA and that's negatively affecting my work? Or how do I say that I'm burnt out? All of these things.

So learning the proper words can help us communicate better. So that's one thing is they just want to learn, how do I tell my boss I'm quitting? I get a lot of people who are just really anxious. How do I tell my coworker that they're micromanaging me? How do I tell my boss that they're MIA and that's negatively affecting my work? Or how do I say that I'm burnt out? All of these things.

And then the second thing that I see most common is validation. People know what they want to do. They think they know what they want to say, and they just need a little kick in the butt. I just need to scoot them on. And I do a lot of that. I say, you know what? You sound like you know what you're doing. You sound like you know what you want to do. And I think you should just go do it.

And then the second thing that I see most common is validation. People know what they want to do. They think they know what they want to say, and they just need a little kick in the butt. I just need to scoot them on. And I do a lot of that. I say, you know what? You sound like you know what you're doing. You sound like you know what you want to do. And I think you should just go do it.

So those are pretty much the two things.

So those are pretty much the two things.

Yeah, how to quit your job. You know, something that's so interesting with quitting your job is that it's both extremely professional and kind of personal. We spend most of our waking hours at work. You know, I always say unless you're a trust fund baby or a sugar baby or I guess a regular baby, you're going to spend most of your waking hours at work.

Yeah, how to quit your job. You know, something that's so interesting with quitting your job is that it's both extremely professional and kind of personal. We spend most of our waking hours at work. You know, I always say unless you're a trust fund baby or a sugar baby or I guess a regular baby, you're going to spend most of your waking hours at work.

um and so work is very personal despite you know us trying to separate them it is your life life is linear um so i always remind people that when you're quitting a job it's a transactional relationship the they hired you to do a job you did a job and they paid you and now you're moving on to a new job and that's that's it um now if you liked your boss a lot or if you liked your boss just a normal amount they were a normal boss

um and so work is very personal despite you know us trying to separate them it is your life life is linear um so i always remind people that when you're quitting a job it's a transactional relationship the they hired you to do a job you did a job and they paid you and now you're moving on to a new job and that's that's it um now if you liked your boss a lot or if you liked your boss just a normal amount they were a normal boss

don't be afraid to tell them that. Like, be appreciative, have some gratitude. But, you know, if maybe you didn't like your boss, you didn't like the work environment, I would still encourage you to leave the job with grace and professionalism. It can feel good in the moment to, you know, stick it to the man and tell him how you feel and get all angry and flustered.

don't be afraid to tell them that. Like, be appreciative, have some gratitude. But, you know, if maybe you didn't like your boss, you didn't like the work environment, I would still encourage you to leave the job with grace and professionalism. It can feel good in the moment to, you know, stick it to the man and tell him how you feel and get all angry and flustered.

But honestly, it's a waste of your energy. And a year from now, you're going to feel really regretful that you did that because the world is actually much smaller than people realize. And you come across people. You think that your boss just stayed at that job and you can curse them out and leave. But... You know, unbeknownst to you, they're your new client at your new company.

But honestly, it's a waste of your energy. And a year from now, you're going to feel really regretful that you did that because the world is actually much smaller than people realize. And you come across people. You think that your boss just stayed at that job and you can curse them out and leave. But... You know, unbeknownst to you, they're your new client at your new company.

So like you just have no idea. You want to have good karma. You want to leave things in good standing. And that's to your benefit. A lot of the times when I tell people and I encourage them to leave with grace and professionalism, they're like, well, you know, they deserve blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, this isn't about them. This is actually just about you and your mental health.

So like you just have no idea. You want to have good karma. You want to leave things in good standing. And that's to your benefit. A lot of the times when I tell people and I encourage them to leave with grace and professionalism, they're like, well, you know, they deserve blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, this isn't about them. This is actually just about you and your mental health.

I highly encourage you if you are leaving an environment which stirs up a lot of anger in you or feelings. go get it out. Like write that glass to review, you know, do that exit interview, go to a kickboxing class, get out your feelings. But that conversation when you're leaving should be done with grace. It should be quick. You should arrange it on the calendar.

I highly encourage you if you are leaving an environment which stirs up a lot of anger in you or feelings. go get it out. Like write that glass to review, you know, do that exit interview, go to a kickboxing class, get out your feelings. But that conversation when you're leaving should be done with grace. It should be quick. You should arrange it on the calendar.

You know, Friday afternoon is usually when most people do it. And remember, it's not personal. It's just professional. Your boss, you are not the first person to quit. You're not the last person that they'll have quit on them. But again, if you had a good working relationship with your boss, tell them, you know, I really appreciate working with you.

You know, Friday afternoon is usually when most people do it. And remember, it's not personal. It's just professional. Your boss, you are not the first person to quit. You're not the last person that they'll have quit on them. But again, if you had a good working relationship with your boss, tell them, you know, I really appreciate working with you.

The only thing I'll accept, you know, is an open door if I ever come crawling back to you. And I hope that we cross paths again in the future. You know, you never know.

The only thing I'll accept, you know, is an open door if I ever come crawling back to you. And I hope that we cross paths again in the future. You know, you never know.

Yeah, I probably sound a little bit crazy. But yeah, I mean, after a while, it just became a habit. Like, you look in the mirror or, you know, you hear those critical thoughts of yourself where, oh, I sounded bad in that meeting. Oh, those people didn't like me. And then you just respond to yourself and you're like... those people probably liked you.

Yeah, I probably sound a little bit crazy. But yeah, I mean, after a while, it just became a habit. Like, you look in the mirror or, you know, you hear those critical thoughts of yourself where, oh, I sounded bad in that meeting. Oh, those people didn't like me. And then you just respond to yourself and you're like... those people probably liked you.

Mm-hmm. Yep.

Mm-hmm. Yep.

Absolutely. Yeah, we think that it's just a door that we're shutting, but really it's not. Your career is fluid. You never know where you're going to go. A lot of times people go back to their old job a few years later. So yeah, just keep that door open. And like you said, bring them on as an ally so that they can encourage you to move on to the next part of your journey.

Absolutely. Yeah, we think that it's just a door that we're shutting, but really it's not. Your career is fluid. You never know where you're going to go. A lot of times people go back to their old job a few years later. So yeah, just keep that door open. And like you said, bring them on as an ally so that they can encourage you to move on to the next part of your journey.

There's no indicator that they didn't like you. And then after a while, that just becomes one singular voice. I know it sounds kind of split personality-ish, but I truly, I noticed it the other day. I'm like, wow, I'm actually really kind to myself. I keep it real. You can't just be worshiping yourself all the time.

There's no indicator that they didn't like you. And then after a while, that just becomes one singular voice. I know it sounds kind of split personality-ish, but I truly, I noticed it the other day. I'm like, wow, I'm actually really kind to myself. I keep it real. You can't just be worshiping yourself all the time.

Yeah, of course.

Yeah, of course.

Oh, I love this question, especially since a lot of my advice is for people being managed. And I'd love to give more advice for managers. But typically when I post those videos, you know, there's less managers than people being managed. So anyway, the comments always get interesting.

Oh, I love this question, especially since a lot of my advice is for people being managed. And I'd love to give more advice for managers. But typically when I post those videos, you know, there's less managers than people being managed. So anyway, the comments always get interesting.

But anytime you're going to a supervisor or manager or somebody senior to you, I want you to imagine that you're them. Like we see these people as, oh, well, they're above us. They have it all figured out. Like they have more control than me. This is a weird power dynamic. But at the end of the day, they probably have a boss too who has a boss too who has a boss too.

But anytime you're going to a supervisor or manager or somebody senior to you, I want you to imagine that you're them. Like we see these people as, oh, well, they're above us. They have it all figured out. Like they have more control than me. This is a weird power dynamic. But at the end of the day, they probably have a boss too who has a boss too who has a boss too.

And they have dirty laundry at home. They have to call their grandma. Like they're stressed out about paying off their student loans. Like they're looking for a new job. They're probably also looking for a raise. Like they're just a person at the end of the day. So anytime – that somebody comes to me and they're like, hey, I want to go to my manager and talk to them about this.

And they have dirty laundry at home. They have to call their grandma. Like they're stressed out about paying off their student loans. Like they're looking for a new job. They're probably also looking for a raise. Like they're just a person at the end of the day. So anytime – that somebody comes to me and they're like, hey, I want to go to my manager and talk to them about this.

I always tell them, imagine that you were that manager and somebody that you manage was coming to you and asking you that question. How would you want them to ask you that question when you have a million other things going on? And yes, it's their job to supervise or manage you. So don't get it twisted. That's part of their job.

I always tell them, imagine that you were that manager and somebody that you manage was coming to you and asking you that question. How would you want them to ask you that question when you have a million other things going on? And yes, it's their job to supervise or manage you. So don't get it twisted. That's part of their job.

But they have a lot going on, you know, and so how can you present this in a way where it's not a battle? It's not, you know, give me this vacation or I quit. But rather, how can we work together, you know, to coordinate schedules? Because at the end of the day, like managers...

But they have a lot going on, you know, and so how can you present this in a way where it's not a battle? It's not, you know, give me this vacation or I quit. But rather, how can we work together, you know, to coordinate schedules? Because at the end of the day, like managers...

It is a stressful job, especially middle managers, when you have to report to your boss above you and then cater to people underneath you. It's a very thankless job. So I always encourage people just try to step in their shoes, think about everything they have going on and how you can make this an easy yes for them. Get to yes.

It is a stressful job, especially middle managers, when you have to report to your boss above you and then cater to people underneath you. It's a very thankless job. So I always encourage people just try to step in their shoes, think about everything they have going on and how you can make this an easy yes for them. Get to yes.

You know, that desired outcome is them saying, yeah, you could take that extra vacation day. That's no problem. How can you get them to say that? So think about it backwards.

You know, that desired outcome is them saying, yeah, you could take that extra vacation day. That's no problem. How can you get them to say that? So think about it backwards.

You have to keep it real with yourself, but you would keep it real with a best friend. You don't just worship a best friend and constantly... you know, boost them up and up and up, but you need to be real with them sometimes. So that's why I like that kind of saying, be your own best friend.

You have to keep it real with yourself, but you would keep it real with a best friend. You don't just worship a best friend and constantly... you know, boost them up and up and up, but you need to be real with them sometimes. So that's why I like that kind of saying, be your own best friend.

Give me, give me.

Give me, give me.

Yeah. So, you know, what you're doing when you come out of the gate strong, like you said, is you're putting a lot of work and like load on them because you're a manager. If you work in a corporate structure is probably not the one that actually has to green light that raise. They have to go to their boss who has to go to finance, who has to go to HR.

Yeah. So, you know, what you're doing when you come out of the gate strong, like you said, is you're putting a lot of work and like load on them because you're a manager. If you work in a corporate structure is probably not the one that actually has to green light that raise. They have to go to their boss who has to go to finance, who has to go to HR.

And it's like a lot of people who have to say yes. So that's why it's important. Yeah, that's why it's important to not. And it's always, you know. I always talk about how there's a difference when you're negotiating with the person who has the power to say yes and the person you're talking to. And they're oftentimes two different people.

And it's like a lot of people who have to say yes. So that's why it's important. Yeah, that's why it's important to not. And it's always, you know. I always talk about how there's a difference when you're negotiating with the person who has the power to say yes and the person you're talking to. And they're oftentimes two different people.

So if you're talking to your manager, like you said, enroll them in the conversation and say, hey, look, I did my market research and other social media coordinators out there are getting paid $10,000 more than me to do less than me. So I'm just being frank with you here.

So if you're talking to your manager, like you said, enroll them in the conversation and say, hey, look, I did my market research and other social media coordinators out there are getting paid $10,000 more than me to do less than me. So I'm just being frank with you here.

I really like working here, but we need to do something to adjust my compensation because I'd really like to stay here, but this is not sustainable for me. And so you enroll them because now they're thinking their manager brain clicks on and they're like, must retain good employee.

I really like working here, but we need to do something to adjust my compensation because I'd really like to stay here, but this is not sustainable for me. And so you enroll them because now they're thinking their manager brain clicks on and they're like, must retain good employee.

And so they can take that to their boss and they can say, look, Erin's thinking about quitting if we don't give her a 10K bump. And so I want to retain her because she's really productive and she's a great value add to the company. And then they can go to finance and advocate for you. So you have to give them a case to advocate for. on your behalf to somebody else.

And so they can take that to their boss and they can say, look, Erin's thinking about quitting if we don't give her a 10K bump. And so I want to retain her because she's really productive and she's a great value add to the company. And then they can go to finance and advocate for you. So you have to give them a case to advocate for. on your behalf to somebody else.

Get your butt to the gym, yeah.

Get your butt to the gym, yeah.

And you can't just say, Hey, give me a raise because they're thinking I can't control that. I got to go talk to Dave and he's got to talk to Karen and they got to talk to all these people, you know? So just working with them and making it a collaboration.

And you can't just say, Hey, give me a raise because they're thinking I can't control that. I got to go talk to Dave and he's got to talk to Karen and they got to talk to all these people, you know? So just working with them and making it a collaboration.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, it leaves a bad taste in your mouth for sure.

Yeah, it leaves a bad taste in your mouth for sure.

Um, yeah, so I'm like you, where I have just played both sides of the coin so much being a business owner. You know, I worked as a director, so I had to hire people all the time, let go of people. And then as a freelancer, I've had to get hired up and hired by over 25 companies. And so I've truly just been on both sides of this equation so many times.

Um, yeah, so I'm like you, where I have just played both sides of the coin so much being a business owner. You know, I worked as a director, so I had to hire people all the time, let go of people. And then as a freelancer, I've had to get hired up and hired by over 25 companies. And so I've truly just been on both sides of this equation so many times.

And yeah, ultimatums just typically don't work in general. I think anybody listening to this might say, oh, there's an exception for my cousin who works in tech. It's like, yeah, there's exceptions for everything me and Jefferson say. Everything that comes out of her mouth, there's an exception for it. You got to give disclaimers for every little thing.

And yeah, ultimatums just typically don't work in general. I think anybody listening to this might say, oh, there's an exception for my cousin who works in tech. It's like, yeah, there's exceptions for everything me and Jefferson say. Everything that comes out of her mouth, there's an exception for it. You got to give disclaimers for every little thing.

But yeah, I think just typically like strong arming people is like a last resort. And it should not be. You should always go into things more softly because you want to help people bring down their defenses whenever you're having a communication. That's like literally what Jefferson's entire book is about is how to get people to deescalate and to get softer.

But yeah, I think just typically like strong arming people is like a last resort. And it should not be. You should always go into things more softly because you want to help people bring down their defenses whenever you're having a communication. That's like literally what Jefferson's entire book is about is how to get people to deescalate and to get softer.

And then you can have a real conversation.

And then you can have a real conversation.

I am, yeah.

I am, yeah.

Oh, that's so funny. Yeah, I'm the youngest of six. We're all about two and a half years apart. So there's like a 12 year gap between me and the oldest sibling.

Oh, that's so funny. Yeah, I'm the youngest of six. We're all about two and a half years apart. So there's like a 12 year gap between me and the oldest sibling.

They're thinking about a million things.

They're thinking about a million things.

Yeah. Yeah. And it's funny because I tell people like the second you become a manager, the second you own your own business, it will click. You will understand why you asking for your raise that way didn't work because now you're on the other side of the table and you've got a million things going on and you understand that it's not just that easy for you to

Yeah. Yeah. And it's funny because I tell people like the second you become a manager, the second you own your own business, it will click. You will understand why you asking for your raise that way didn't work because now you're on the other side of the table and you've got a million things going on and you understand that it's not just that easy for you to

Okay, I'll go in, you know, and change your salary right now. It's a whole, sometimes it's a whole operation. And sometimes it's not, you know, sometimes I see a lot of companies giving people a really hard time who are very much being underpaid. So I really, really advocate for people to advocate for themselves.

Okay, I'll go in, you know, and change your salary right now. It's a whole, sometimes it's a whole operation. And sometimes it's not, you know, sometimes I see a lot of companies giving people a really hard time who are very much being underpaid. So I really, really advocate for people to advocate for themselves.

It has been amazing to see your growth and it's so well-deserved. You deserve everything that you're getting, the book deal, the TV, podcast. I'm just so happy for you because your advice is so amazing and I see it impact people who I know. So you're doing great. And I'm so glad that you picked up your phone in your car and made that first video.

It has been amazing to see your growth and it's so well-deserved. You deserve everything that you're getting, the book deal, the TV, podcast. I'm just so happy for you because your advice is so amazing and I see it impact people who I know. So you're doing great. And I'm so glad that you picked up your phone in your car and made that first video.

Thank you so much for having me.

Thank you so much for having me.

Jefferson, thank you so much for having me. It's so great to get to talk in person after exchanging so many DMs.

Jefferson, thank you so much for having me. It's so great to get to talk in person after exchanging so many DMs.

That's a great question. I think I'm a typical youngest child. You have to learn how to get a word in. And that's why I think I speak so quickly is because, and have a sense of humor. A lot of youngest children have a sense of humor because we're just trying to get our word in and trying to get attention.

That's a great question. I think I'm a typical youngest child. You have to learn how to get a word in. And that's why I think I speak so quickly is because, and have a sense of humor. A lot of youngest children have a sense of humor because we're just trying to get our word in and trying to get attention.

So I definitely learned how to like think really quick on my feet, be pithy and concise because it's, You're trying to just get a word in. And to be fair, my parents were really good about giving everybody equal attention and time and being very fair about things. But yeah, you definitely learn how to be very quick on your feet.

So I definitely learned how to like think really quick on my feet, be pithy and concise because it's, You're trying to just get a word in. And to be fair, my parents were really good about giving everybody equal attention and time and being very fair about things. But yeah, you definitely learn how to be very quick on your feet.

Yeah. Oh, definitely. And yeah, being the youngest, you're always talked down to as well, especially of six, you know, it's the bottom of eight people. And so everybody's always talking down to you. So you really learn how to kind of like manage up from a young age and like talk up to people. And it was definitely always challenging. treated older than I was, I think.

Yeah. Oh, definitely. And yeah, being the youngest, you're always talked down to as well, especially of six, you know, it's the bottom of eight people. And so everybody's always talking down to you. So you really learn how to kind of like manage up from a young age and like talk up to people. And it was definitely always challenging. treated older than I was, I think.

So people always told me I was mature for my age. So yeah, I would say very, very much affected me in a positive way growing up in that big, big tribe. But yeah, I definitely don't want to have six kids. I don't know how anybody can manage that this day and age, but they do.

So people always told me I was mature for my age. So yeah, I would say very, very much affected me in a positive way growing up in that big, big tribe. But yeah, I definitely don't want to have six kids. I don't know how anybody can manage that this day and age, but they do.

So, so many different places. I mean, every morning I listen to business podcasts, I read studies and research, but I also just talk to people. Every single day in my DMs, I'm conversing with recruiters, business owners, and especially job seekers. And I just like to be like kind of a boots on the ground person listening.

So, so many different places. I mean, every morning I listen to business podcasts, I read studies and research, but I also just talk to people. Every single day in my DMs, I'm conversing with recruiters, business owners, and especially job seekers. And I just like to be like kind of a boots on the ground person listening.

And then when it comes to all the advice that I share, it's truly just wisdom that I've stolen from so many people in my life. You know, I listen to TED Talks, but I also just will like give advice that I heard from my dad or from, you know, my aunt or something like that. So it's truly just a mosaic. And I basically just look to some of the wisest minds in the world.

And then when it comes to all the advice that I share, it's truly just wisdom that I've stolen from so many people in my life. You know, I listen to TED Talks, but I also just will like give advice that I heard from my dad or from, you know, my aunt or something like that. So it's truly just a mosaic. And I basically just look to some of the wisest minds in the world.

I listen to what I hear repeated over and over again. And then the cherry on top is kind of what I've experienced in my own life. I don't really give advice from personal experience. I more like to research a variety of sources and then kind of boil it down and then put my personal experience kind of as a cherry on top.

I listen to what I hear repeated over and over again. And then the cherry on top is kind of what I've experienced in my own life. I don't really give advice from personal experience. I more like to research a variety of sources and then kind of boil it down and then put my personal experience kind of as a cherry on top.

So I run a lot of my content like through friends who work in different industries and stuff like that. So, yeah, it's really my content's a lot more researched, I think, than people realize.

So I run a lot of my content like through friends who work in different industries and stuff like that. So, yeah, it's really my content's a lot more researched, I think, than people realize.

Yeah. I mean, at the end of the day, like we're both giving subjective advice, you know? So you might say one thing, another career expert might say another thing. So yeah, like as much as I like to pretend it's objective and research-based, like at the end of the day, it really is just subjective.

Yeah. I mean, at the end of the day, like we're both giving subjective advice, you know? So you might say one thing, another career expert might say another thing. So yeah, like as much as I like to pretend it's objective and research-based, like at the end of the day, it really is just subjective.

Oh my gosh, congratulations to you. Your book is fantastic. It's on my bookshelf. And I have to say real quick, my mom is your biggest fan ever. And she loves your content so much. So shout out to mom.

Oh my gosh, congratulations to you. Your book is fantastic. It's on my bookshelf. And I have to say real quick, my mom is your biggest fan ever. And she loves your content so much. So shout out to mom.

yeah man can you believe they're still asking that question i i can't believe it i can't actually yeah well there's a there's a couple things so the first thing is to understand the question behind the question is what i say so when they're asking what is your greatest weakness they're not actually asking like about what your greatest weakness is like mine is ben and jerry's half baked ice cream like they're not really curious about that

yeah man can you believe they're still asking that question i i can't believe it i can't actually yeah well there's a there's a couple things so the first thing is to understand the question behind the question is what i say so when they're asking what is your greatest weakness they're not actually asking like about what your greatest weakness is like mine is ben and jerry's half baked ice cream like they're not really curious about that

What they're really asking is, what are your red flags? Are you going to reveal something to me that I might need to know?

What they're really asking is, what are your red flags? Are you going to reveal something to me that I might need to know?

Also, it's kind of a signal of how professional you are because if you're caught off guard by this question or if you answer it quote unquote wrong, it kind of signals to them that you don't like know that that was an interview question that people ask and you didn't know how to answer it. So it's kind of part of this hidden curriculum and secret language of work. So there's that.

Also, it's kind of a signal of how professional you are because if you're caught off guard by this question or if you answer it quote unquote wrong, it kind of signals to them that you don't like know that that was an interview question that people ask and you didn't know how to answer it. So it's kind of part of this hidden curriculum and secret language of work. So there's that.

So they're really asking like, how well can you professionally articulate yourself? So the question's about articulation. And then the second half of it is how to answer. And I always teach something called the 10-90 rule. So you should spend only 10% of your answer naming the weakness and then the remaining 90% talking about how you're working on it. So you're really talking about self-awareness.

So they're really asking like, how well can you professionally articulate yourself? So the question's about articulation. And then the second half of it is how to answer. And I always teach something called the 10-90 rule. So you should spend only 10% of your answer naming the weakness and then the remaining 90% talking about how you're working on it. So you're really talking about self-awareness.

I'm aware of this weakness within myself. Here's why it's important. And here's what I'm doing to address it. And you know what? It's really working out so far. And you don't want to name something like, you know, a lot of people will say, oh, well, I'm a perfectionist and you'll get an immediate eye roll. You don't want to name something that's a character trait.

I'm aware of this weakness within myself. Here's why it's important. And here's what I'm doing to address it. And you know what? It's really working out so far. And you don't want to name something like, you know, a lot of people will say, oh, well, I'm a perfectionist and you'll get an immediate eye roll. You don't want to name something that's a character trait.

Like you don't want to say like I'm a perfectionist or this is just the way that I am. You know, you want to name something kind of tangible that you're working on. And something else that's really important is that it needs to be real, but don't have it be directly hindering. Like it shouldn't hinder your ability to do the job, you know. So, you know, delegation is safe for a lot of people.

Like you don't want to say like I'm a perfectionist or this is just the way that I am. You know, you want to name something kind of tangible that you're working on. And something else that's really important is that it needs to be real, but don't have it be directly hindering. Like it shouldn't hinder your ability to do the job, you know. So, you know, delegation is safe for a lot of people.

Not if you're a manager, don't say delegation. But, you know, something that I'm currently working to improve are my delegation skills. So each week I try to delegate one task and, you know, I keep a sticky note next to my laptop and it's really helping me remember that. Yeah.

Not if you're a manager, don't say delegation. But, you know, something that I'm currently working to improve are my delegation skills. So each week I try to delegate one task and, you know, I keep a sticky note next to my laptop and it's really helping me remember that. Yeah.

Claire. She's the one from Texas from the Panhandle.

Claire. She's the one from Texas from the Panhandle.

Yeah, they're really looking because I'll post an example and people say, well, you shouldn't tell an employer that, you know, you're you don't have a sense of humor, that you're too blunt. And I'm like, well, that's kind of the point is that you tell them how you're working on it and how you're self-aware and how you understand. And also, you're not telling them a deal breaker.

Yeah, they're really looking because I'll post an example and people say, well, you shouldn't tell an employer that, you know, you're you don't have a sense of humor, that you're too blunt. And I'm like, well, that's kind of the point is that you tell them how you're working on it and how you're self-aware and how you understand. And also, you're not telling them a deal breaker.

You know, don't tell them you're working on your sense of humor if you're applying to be a comedy writer. You know, read the room.

You know, don't tell them you're working on your sense of humor if you're applying to be a comedy writer. You know, read the room.

How do you do this?

How do you do this?

And you have kids.

And you have kids.

Totally. Yeah. That's something else that I teach is just whenever you go into a job interview, you want to think of the desired, the desired results. So you want to think of what you want the recruiter to think after you're done answering and you just named it. You want the recruiter to think, oh, yeah, I struggle with that, too. That's fine. Like that's what you want them to think.

Totally. Yeah. That's something else that I teach is just whenever you go into a job interview, you want to think of the desired, the desired results. So you want to think of what you want the recruiter to think after you're done answering and you just named it. You want the recruiter to think, oh, yeah, I struggle with that, too. That's fine. Like that's what you want them to think.

So you need to craft your answer in a way where like it's just something that they can say, oh, yeah, like that's that's not a deal breaker. That's fine. They're working on it.

So you need to craft your answer in a way where like it's just something that they can say, oh, yeah, like that's that's not a deal breaker. That's fine. They're working on it.

It's such a great tip. You know, instead of saying, well, I think I'd be good at this. I'm confident I'd be good at this. Just throwing the word confident in there. Beautiful tip. Perfect tip.

It's such a great tip. You know, instead of saying, well, I think I'd be good at this. I'm confident I'd be good at this. Just throwing the word confident in there. Beautiful tip. Perfect tip.

Oh, that's really tough. You know, I think there's kind of two categories when it comes to passive aggressive people. There's one category where it's affecting you and your work and your ability to complete your duties and responsibilities. And then there's another category where they don't affect your work at all. It's just annoying.

Oh, that's really tough. You know, I think there's kind of two categories when it comes to passive aggressive people. There's one category where it's affecting you and your work and your ability to complete your duties and responsibilities. And then there's another category where they don't affect your work at all. It's just annoying.

And so my overarching advice when dealing with anybody difficult at work is just to not take it personally. I think it's hard when you're at work and somebody's giving you a little attitude and, you know, to get all festered and flustered and, you know, get mad at them. But, you know, don't get mad. Just get curious. You know, think about how. Like, why are they this way?

And so my overarching advice when dealing with anybody difficult at work is just to not take it personally. I think it's hard when you're at work and somebody's giving you a little attitude and, you know, to get all festered and flustered and, you know, get mad at them. But, you know, don't get mad. Just get curious. You know, think about how. Like, why are they this way?

Why are they so miserable? And you talk a lot about passive aggressiveness. I want to hear your answer as well. But when people are passive aggressive, it's because they lack an ability to communicate like an adult and professionally. And I think there are some instances where actually passive aggressive behavior or passive behavior is okay.

Sometimes people might be trying to hint to you something. So something that I like to ask if you're not sure if somebody's being passive aggressive is, oh, did you mean that genuinely? Or were you trying to hint at something? Because you actually never know. Somebody might mean something really genuinely, but you're insecure about what's going on, so you're taking it in a passive-aggressive way.

Or they might be 100% just being a jerk and just being passive-aggressive. So when you ask them, hey, did you mean that genuinely or were you trying to hint at something? Then they either have to confront, no, I meant that genuinely, or they have to say, no, I was actually hinting at something.

Oh, so important. The way that you communicate with yourself is the most important person you will ever communicate with is yourself. I always say like my key to confidence is just being your own best friend, you know, talking to yourself the way that you would talk to a best friend. So, you know, if I look in the mirror and I hear that thought of, oh, I don't look very good today.

Yeah, because they're defensive and they're insecure, and that's how they're communicating in a passive-aggressive manner. So if you fight fire with fire, yeah, it typically doesn't work out.

I'm a little scared right now thinking of Chris.

Yeah.

And I think tone with that is really important because it could be a little, should I read into that? You know, but you want to ask genuinely. Yeah.

I imagine if my friend was saying that and what I would say to her and I'd be like, you're ridiculous. Like, it's OK. Just go take a shower. You know, so I like to keep it real with myself, but also give myself so much empathy and compassion because we're oftentimes our worst critics. So be your own best friend. I'm my own best friend.

Two things. 100% of people who come to me, 99% come for two things. The first thing is interpersonal relationship dynamics. So they know what they feel and they know what they want to say. They just don't know how to say it.

Hence why both of our accounts have been so popular is because people don't want to cause conflict and they don't want to say the wrong thing and they just wanna be understood. And oftentimes, Like you said, our childhood, the way we grew up, the way we saw communication styles, the way we learned how to communicate, it leads to an inability to be able to communicate properly as an adult.

So learning the proper words can help us communicate better. So that's one thing is they just want to learn, how do I tell my boss I'm quitting? I get a lot of people who are just really anxious. How do I tell my coworker that they're micromanaging me? How do I tell my boss that they're MIA and that's negatively affecting my work? Or how do I say that I'm burnt out? All of these things.

And then the second thing that I see most common is validation. People know what they want to do. They think they know what they want to say, and they just need a little kick in the butt. I just need to scoot them on. And I do a lot of that. I say, you know what? You sound like you know what you're doing. You sound like you know what you want to do. And I think you should just go do it.

So those are pretty much the two things.

Yeah, how to quit your job. You know, something that's so interesting with quitting your job is that it's both extremely professional and kind of personal. We spend most of our waking hours at work. You know, I always say unless you're a trust fund baby or a sugar baby or I guess a regular baby, you're going to spend most of your waking hours at work.

um and so work is very personal despite you know us trying to separate them it is your life life is linear um so i always remind people that when you're quitting a job it's a transactional relationship the they hired you to do a job you did a job and they paid you and now you're moving on to a new job and that's that's it um now if you liked your boss a lot or if you liked your boss just a normal amount they were a normal boss

don't be afraid to tell them that. Like, be appreciative, have some gratitude. But, you know, if maybe you didn't like your boss, you didn't like the work environment, I would still encourage you to leave the job with grace and professionalism. It can feel good in the moment to, you know, stick it to the man and tell him how you feel and get all angry and flustered.

But honestly, it's a waste of your energy. And a year from now, you're going to feel really regretful that you did that because the world is actually much smaller than people realize. And you come across people. You think that your boss just stayed at that job and you can curse them out and leave. But... You know, unbeknownst to you, they're your new client at your new company.

So like you just have no idea. You want to have good karma. You want to leave things in good standing. And that's to your benefit. A lot of the times when I tell people and I encourage them to leave with grace and professionalism, they're like, well, you know, they deserve blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, this isn't about them. This is actually just about you and your mental health.

I highly encourage you if you are leaving an environment which stirs up a lot of anger in you or feelings. go get it out. Like write that glass to review, you know, do that exit interview, go to a kickboxing class, get out your feelings. But that conversation when you're leaving should be done with grace. It should be quick. You should arrange it on the calendar.

You know, Friday afternoon is usually when most people do it. And remember, it's not personal. It's just professional. Your boss, you are not the first person to quit. You're not the last person that they'll have quit on them. But again, if you had a good working relationship with your boss, tell them, you know, I really appreciate working with you.

The only thing I'll accept, you know, is an open door if I ever come crawling back to you. And I hope that we cross paths again in the future. You know, you never know.

Yeah, I probably sound a little bit crazy. But yeah, I mean, after a while, it just became a habit. Like, you look in the mirror or, you know, you hear those critical thoughts of yourself where, oh, I sounded bad in that meeting. Oh, those people didn't like me. And then you just respond to yourself and you're like... those people probably liked you.

Mm-hmm. Yep.

Absolutely. Yeah, we think that it's just a door that we're shutting, but really it's not. Your career is fluid. You never know where you're going to go. A lot of times people go back to their old job a few years later. So yeah, just keep that door open. And like you said, bring them on as an ally so that they can encourage you to move on to the next part of your journey.

There's no indicator that they didn't like you. And then after a while, that just becomes one singular voice. I know it sounds kind of split personality-ish, but I truly, I noticed it the other day. I'm like, wow, I'm actually really kind to myself. I keep it real. You can't just be worshiping yourself all the time.

Yeah, of course.

Oh, I love this question, especially since a lot of my advice is for people being managed. And I'd love to give more advice for managers. But typically when I post those videos, you know, there's less managers than people being managed. So anyway, the comments always get interesting.

But anytime you're going to a supervisor or manager or somebody senior to you, I want you to imagine that you're them. Like we see these people as, oh, well, they're above us. They have it all figured out. Like they have more control than me. This is a weird power dynamic. But at the end of the day, they probably have a boss too who has a boss too who has a boss too.

And they have dirty laundry at home. They have to call their grandma. Like they're stressed out about paying off their student loans. Like they're looking for a new job. They're probably also looking for a raise. Like they're just a person at the end of the day. So anytime – that somebody comes to me and they're like, hey, I want to go to my manager and talk to them about this.

I always tell them, imagine that you were that manager and somebody that you manage was coming to you and asking you that question. How would you want them to ask you that question when you have a million other things going on? And yes, it's their job to supervise or manage you. So don't get it twisted. That's part of their job.

But they have a lot going on, you know, and so how can you present this in a way where it's not a battle? It's not, you know, give me this vacation or I quit. But rather, how can we work together, you know, to coordinate schedules? Because at the end of the day, like managers...

It is a stressful job, especially middle managers, when you have to report to your boss above you and then cater to people underneath you. It's a very thankless job. So I always encourage people just try to step in their shoes, think about everything they have going on and how you can make this an easy yes for them. Get to yes.

You know, that desired outcome is them saying, yeah, you could take that extra vacation day. That's no problem. How can you get them to say that? So think about it backwards.

You have to keep it real with yourself, but you would keep it real with a best friend. You don't just worship a best friend and constantly... you know, boost them up and up and up, but you need to be real with them sometimes. So that's why I like that kind of saying, be your own best friend.

Give me, give me.

Yeah. So, you know, what you're doing when you come out of the gate strong, like you said, is you're putting a lot of work and like load on them because you're a manager. If you work in a corporate structure is probably not the one that actually has to green light that raise. They have to go to their boss who has to go to finance, who has to go to HR.

And it's like a lot of people who have to say yes. So that's why it's important. Yeah, that's why it's important to not. And it's always, you know. I always talk about how there's a difference when you're negotiating with the person who has the power to say yes and the person you're talking to. And they're oftentimes two different people.

So if you're talking to your manager, like you said, enroll them in the conversation and say, hey, look, I did my market research and other social media coordinators out there are getting paid $10,000 more than me to do less than me. So I'm just being frank with you here.

I really like working here, but we need to do something to adjust my compensation because I'd really like to stay here, but this is not sustainable for me. And so you enroll them because now they're thinking their manager brain clicks on and they're like, must retain good employee.

And so they can take that to their boss and they can say, look, Erin's thinking about quitting if we don't give her a 10K bump. And so I want to retain her because she's really productive and she's a great value add to the company. And then they can go to finance and advocate for you. So you have to give them a case to advocate for. on your behalf to somebody else.

Get your butt to the gym, yeah.

And you can't just say, Hey, give me a raise because they're thinking I can't control that. I got to go talk to Dave and he's got to talk to Karen and they got to talk to all these people, you know? So just working with them and making it a collaboration.

Yeah.

Yeah, it leaves a bad taste in your mouth for sure.

Um, yeah, so I'm like you, where I have just played both sides of the coin so much being a business owner. You know, I worked as a director, so I had to hire people all the time, let go of people. And then as a freelancer, I've had to get hired up and hired by over 25 companies. And so I've truly just been on both sides of this equation so many times.

And yeah, ultimatums just typically don't work in general. I think anybody listening to this might say, oh, there's an exception for my cousin who works in tech. It's like, yeah, there's exceptions for everything me and Jefferson say. Everything that comes out of her mouth, there's an exception for it. You got to give disclaimers for every little thing.

But yeah, I think just typically like strong arming people is like a last resort. And it should not be. You should always go into things more softly because you want to help people bring down their defenses whenever you're having a communication. That's like literally what Jefferson's entire book is about is how to get people to deescalate and to get softer.

And then you can have a real conversation.

I am, yeah.

Oh, that's so funny. Yeah, I'm the youngest of six. We're all about two and a half years apart. So there's like a 12 year gap between me and the oldest sibling.

They're thinking about a million things.

Yeah. Yeah. And it's funny because I tell people like the second you become a manager, the second you own your own business, it will click. You will understand why you asking for your raise that way didn't work because now you're on the other side of the table and you've got a million things going on and you understand that it's not just that easy for you to

Okay, I'll go in, you know, and change your salary right now. It's a whole, sometimes it's a whole operation. And sometimes it's not, you know, sometimes I see a lot of companies giving people a really hard time who are very much being underpaid. So I really, really advocate for people to advocate for themselves.

It has been amazing to see your growth and it's so well-deserved. You deserve everything that you're getting, the book deal, the TV, podcast. I'm just so happy for you because your advice is so amazing and I see it impact people who I know. So you're doing great. And I'm so glad that you picked up your phone in your car and made that first video.

Thank you so much for having me.

Jefferson, thank you so much for having me. It's so great to get to talk in person after exchanging so many DMs.

That's a great question. I think I'm a typical youngest child. You have to learn how to get a word in. And that's why I think I speak so quickly is because, and have a sense of humor. A lot of youngest children have a sense of humor because we're just trying to get our word in and trying to get attention.

So I definitely learned how to like think really quick on my feet, be pithy and concise because it's, You're trying to just get a word in. And to be fair, my parents were really good about giving everybody equal attention and time and being very fair about things. But yeah, you definitely learn how to be very quick on your feet.

Yeah. Oh, definitely. And yeah, being the youngest, you're always talked down to as well, especially of six, you know, it's the bottom of eight people. And so everybody's always talking down to you. So you really learn how to kind of like manage up from a young age and like talk up to people. And it was definitely always challenging. treated older than I was, I think.

So people always told me I was mature for my age. So yeah, I would say very, very much affected me in a positive way growing up in that big, big tribe. But yeah, I definitely don't want to have six kids. I don't know how anybody can manage that this day and age, but they do.

So, so many different places. I mean, every morning I listen to business podcasts, I read studies and research, but I also just talk to people. Every single day in my DMs, I'm conversing with recruiters, business owners, and especially job seekers. And I just like to be like kind of a boots on the ground person listening.

And then when it comes to all the advice that I share, it's truly just wisdom that I've stolen from so many people in my life. You know, I listen to TED Talks, but I also just will like give advice that I heard from my dad or from, you know, my aunt or something like that. So it's truly just a mosaic. And I basically just look to some of the wisest minds in the world.

I listen to what I hear repeated over and over again. And then the cherry on top is kind of what I've experienced in my own life. I don't really give advice from personal experience. I more like to research a variety of sources and then kind of boil it down and then put my personal experience kind of as a cherry on top.

So I run a lot of my content like through friends who work in different industries and stuff like that. So, yeah, it's really my content's a lot more researched, I think, than people realize.

Yeah. I mean, at the end of the day, like we're both giving subjective advice, you know? So you might say one thing, another career expert might say another thing. So yeah, like as much as I like to pretend it's objective and research-based, like at the end of the day, it really is just subjective.

Oh my gosh, congratulations to you. Your book is fantastic. It's on my bookshelf. And I have to say real quick, my mom is your biggest fan ever. And she loves your content so much. So shout out to mom.

yeah man can you believe they're still asking that question i i can't believe it i can't actually yeah well there's a there's a couple things so the first thing is to understand the question behind the question is what i say so when they're asking what is your greatest weakness they're not actually asking like about what your greatest weakness is like mine is ben and jerry's half baked ice cream like they're not really curious about that

What they're really asking is, what are your red flags? Are you going to reveal something to me that I might need to know?

Also, it's kind of a signal of how professional you are because if you're caught off guard by this question or if you answer it quote unquote wrong, it kind of signals to them that you don't like know that that was an interview question that people ask and you didn't know how to answer it. So it's kind of part of this hidden curriculum and secret language of work. So there's that.

So they're really asking like, how well can you professionally articulate yourself? So the question's about articulation. And then the second half of it is how to answer. And I always teach something called the 10-90 rule. So you should spend only 10% of your answer naming the weakness and then the remaining 90% talking about how you're working on it. So you're really talking about self-awareness.

I'm aware of this weakness within myself. Here's why it's important. And here's what I'm doing to address it. And you know what? It's really working out so far. And you don't want to name something like, you know, a lot of people will say, oh, well, I'm a perfectionist and you'll get an immediate eye roll. You don't want to name something that's a character trait.

Like you don't want to say like I'm a perfectionist or this is just the way that I am. You know, you want to name something kind of tangible that you're working on. And something else that's really important is that it needs to be real, but don't have it be directly hindering. Like it shouldn't hinder your ability to do the job, you know. So, you know, delegation is safe for a lot of people.

Not if you're a manager, don't say delegation. But, you know, something that I'm currently working to improve are my delegation skills. So each week I try to delegate one task and, you know, I keep a sticky note next to my laptop and it's really helping me remember that. Yeah.

Claire. She's the one from Texas from the Panhandle.

Yeah, they're really looking because I'll post an example and people say, well, you shouldn't tell an employer that, you know, you're you don't have a sense of humor, that you're too blunt. And I'm like, well, that's kind of the point is that you tell them how you're working on it and how you're self-aware and how you understand. And also, you're not telling them a deal breaker.

You know, don't tell them you're working on your sense of humor if you're applying to be a comedy writer. You know, read the room.

How do you do this?

And you have kids.

Totally. Yeah. That's something else that I teach is just whenever you go into a job interview, you want to think of the desired, the desired results. So you want to think of what you want the recruiter to think after you're done answering and you just named it. You want the recruiter to think, oh, yeah, I struggle with that, too. That's fine. Like that's what you want them to think.

So you need to craft your answer in a way where like it's just something that they can say, oh, yeah, like that's that's not a deal breaker. That's fine. They're working on it.

It's such a great tip. You know, instead of saying, well, I think I'd be good at this. I'm confident I'd be good at this. Just throwing the word confident in there. Beautiful tip. Perfect tip.

Oh, that's really tough. You know, I think there's kind of two categories when it comes to passive aggressive people. There's one category where it's affecting you and your work and your ability to complete your duties and responsibilities. And then there's another category where they don't affect your work at all. It's just annoying.

And so my overarching advice when dealing with anybody difficult at work is just to not take it personally. I think it's hard when you're at work and somebody's giving you a little attitude and, you know, to get all festered and flustered and, you know, get mad at them. But, you know, don't get mad. Just get curious. You know, think about how. Like, why are they this way?