Eric King
Appearances
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
So I want to start with saying like, the reason I hit you up is because there's so much like horror happening this first week of like Trump's new presidency. And I didn't want this issue to get swept under the rug.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
A lot of times the bigger, more mainstream issues will get the most attention. And I still remember our trans family inside. And so like, that's what scared me enough to go like, dude, I need to talk to you about this. Yeah. Yeah. So when I was inside, there was not very many trans people in their like correct prison. Like a trans woman should be in a women's prison.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
A trans man should be in a man's prison. And that wasn't happening on the level that it should have. And there was a rare case like Marius Mason, who had enough support, enough publicity where they were able to, but most people were stuck at their gender at birth. And so over the last couple of years, people started getting a lot more access to safe prisons.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
That's what I'll call them, prisons where they feel safest. Okay. So trans women were starting to go to women's prisons. And it wasn't very many. It's not like there's tens of thousands. Yeah. But handfuls. Because it's very hard in the federal system to get recognized as a transgender person.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
You have to go through years of degrading and humiliating therapy with a prison psychologist. You have to get just horribly treated by doctors who ignore you, gaslight you, diminish you, try to push Christianity on you. And then if you make it through their brutality... then you were one of the lucky ones. You got to say like, I am this person. This is who I am.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
And if you were even more lucky, you got to be transferred to a prison that would make you feel the safest. Yeah. And the most whole as a human. And that's the goal. Like, that's the safety goal, basically.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
That's where we wanted things to be pushed, that people would be recognized for who they are, they would get treated for who they were, and they would be sent to a prison that was congruent with who they were. And that's what's all being taken away.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
And I only speak for federal prisons. I know in some states it's different. Like in some states, people are able to use like their femininity as like a power play, as a tool to keep themselves safe. And so if that's an option, then great. But what I witnessed in the federal prison was the exact opposite of that. People are getting destroyed.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
And if you go into a men's prison presenting as female in any way or soft in any way or as any type of woman or any type of non-cis straight male, you are an automatic target. And it's not like hyperbole to say that if you walked onto a penitentiary yard and you had makeup, if you had your hair long, if you had breasts, if you had anything presenting as female, you will get butchered
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
Within an hour, you won't survive that. Or you'll get bought by some group and you will be a slave, like you will be property. And at the lower custody levels, it's a lot safer. If you're at a low security, like FCI Inglewood, you're not in danger there. You're a danger of humiliation and being degraded by staff, but you're not going to get stabbed there.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
But God forbid you go to Victorville medium, Florence medium, or any penitentiary, like that's a death sentence for real.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
Yeah. So like everyone needs to have like consequence awareness and they need to work on the lines that like make them feel most comfortable, of course. But for me, I was not comfortable at all watching trans or gay prisoners get brutalized. And so there were times where we'd have to raise money to buy a prisoner out of sex slavery. Yeah.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
We just have to buy them and then basically free them or pay off whatever debt they owed so that they no longer have to be in that situation. And there was other times that you, you have to knife up or you have to show up physically. And I'm not a big guy, of course, but like, I don't tolerate like anti-trans people.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
bullshit in my life anywhere and that includes in prison and so like there are times you have to step to people and say like i am not going to let this person have this happen to them and if you want to continue doing this then like we're going to take it to the next level yeah and i wish to god there was more prison allies that would be willing to do that inside because once someone is shown to have like support it makes them less easy to be a victim yeah
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
If people see that like this person's trans or like other people are riding with them, they're less likely to go after them because there'll be consequences. But if they're all alone, then they're just a sitting duck. Yeah. And so like, we need that. We need cis men to show up and be like, this is not happening. I don't care what race you are. I don't care what gang you're in.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
You're not going to hurt this person. And that's stuff that we had to do sometimes. And it's scary as shit.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
Because you don't know what's going to happen, but.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
I think that's really well said too. I think the way like I used to work inside is like, we can't take steps backwards. We can't relinquish any progress we've made, not a single pinch of it. Like everything has to move forward. And whatever you're capable of doing, like not everyone's capable of like physically stepping to someone and saying like, no. But everyone's capable of something.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
whether that's doing calling campaigns, organizing protests outside of prison, whether it's contacting region, contacting this person, raising money, doing whatever it takes. Everyone can do something to keep people safe. And it's the same in the free world. Like it's not different. Everyone has something to offer, but it can't be apathy. It can't be this nihilism that like, what does it matter?
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
Like they're going to do it anyway. If we do that, like we're just forfeiting the future and we're letting our family get butchered.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
So I assume like when you're asking like, what can people do to support trans prisoners? I assume you're asking like, what can free world people do to support those inside?
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
visibility is safety. Like I saw that in my bid and I've seen that in other people's bids. And if you look at someone like Marius Mason, if you look at people like Jennifer Rose, keeping people visible and letting the prison know that like, we're not turning a blind eye to this person. Like you're not going to get a free one on them. That keeps people alive. Okay.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
And so the more the staff knows and the administration knows that like this person is looked after, the more they are likely to look after them because they don't want to be held accountable. Okay. So things like getting books into people, things like getting pen pals of people, raising money so that they don't have to go into debt. Like that's real. Like this debt stuff is serious.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
So making sure they have money on their books, like... I don't care what they spend it on. I don't care if they spend it on drugs. I don't care if they spend it on 20 bags of coffee or gambling. As long as it keeps them out of slavery or out of that knife, that's what matters. And then passing names around.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
It's almost as if we concentrate all of our prison support on five or six people, and then we forget that there's 15,000 trans people in prison. And so organizations like Black and Pink do a really amazing job But like, there's, there's not enough, like we need visibility. Like we need to keep people present in our lives that we don't know. And we might not like their charges.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
They might not be nice people. Like they might not be cool, but we need to keep them alive. Like that's what abolition is. So visibility.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
Black and Pink is an organization. I know it used to be an anarchist organization. It might be something else now, but it's an organization that's focused strictly on supporting trans and queer prisoners. That's all they do. Social prisoners, political prisoners, it doesn't matter. We're going to find you a pen pal and we're going to get people to write you. And they do a really amazing job.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
Yeah. Even just like right now, someone Googled Black and Pink pen pal. Black and Pink prison pen pal. It'll pop up the website. You just click on find a pen pal. And you can find someone in your city, find someone in your state, find someone that you relate to, like they'll have a little biography and you can find someone like to connect with and potentially save their life or save your life.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
So each prison's different, like state and federal, but to put money on someone's books, you can do that yourself. You go, you find out whatever prison that person's at and you can just go to the BOP website or that prison's website. BOP is Bureau of Prisons. It's for federal people. Mm-hmm.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
And it will just walk you through how to do it, how to send the money ground from Walmart or how to do the J-Pay and put it on through your credit card. And you can do it. Like if there's an ABC and Anarchist Black Cross community near you, you can fundraise with them.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
If there's any like books through bars or abolitionist groups near you, like you can and should fundraise with them to raise awareness. But you don't have to. Everyone can do this on your own. This is a single person job, but it's better if we do it as a community.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
I can't, like, speak for everybody. It should kill, like, a 10 out of 10. Yeah. Like, this is a carceral genocide. Yeah. For real. This is an erasure of an entire people. So, like, if you're not at a 10 for this, like, you either do not care or you're not understanding how serious the prison system is. I've talked to a couple homies inside.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
I have to be really delicate because I'm still on probation. But those people understand, like, the mood is turning dark.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
Like they see inside that like when fascists come into power, it empowers everyone else below them to be brutal because they can get away with it now. And so these people that were already monsters under the most liberal of prison director are now being told by the president that they do not have to respect this person's entire life. And so it's a very serious situation.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
We've got a non-binary person about to go in named Casey Goonan. And they got sentenced for allegedly firebombing some cop cars in support of Palestine. And I talk with them on a weekly basis just trying to prepare them because, like, right now where they're at is a jail and they haven't really experienced the prison yet.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
And so it's all about, like, getting them ready for, like, here are potentials.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
Like, here's what they could do. But it's dark in there. Like, the Nazis are celebrating, and that includes the ones with badges especially.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
Yeah. The noise demos are cool, but they're performative. It's more for the people that are doing them than the people inside. Mm-hmm. But like, let's say you're a trans person at a jail and there's 35 people outside waving your banner that will get you respect inside. They'll get people to say like, what the hell is going on with them?
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
Yeah. Like that is, that's serious to where you can build up a rep. Um, if someone's already in prison, that's You'll probably get them fucked up and put in the shoe. That's what happened to me.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
Because that's what put me in ADX. Oh, shit. So that's a real, that's a real double-edged sword, right? Yeah. They use that as the, as the thing saying I was the leader of Antifa because I got people to come out and protest for me. So I got pulled with El Chapo.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
I'm more of a regional leader. The things that help the most like in a real life situation are the things that provide mental safety and something to do. Okay. So books, magazines, that gives you something to do to like empower yourself and pass the time and stay out of the way. Money helps because then you can do crafts. You can paint. You can do art. You can sell things. You can do crochet.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
That stuff helps. And then letters, obviously like... That gives you someone to talk to if people are actually putting thought into the letters. And I always encourage, and I always will, for as many people as possible to, on a daily or weekly basis, call that prison.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
Call the prison, no matter what prison, state, federal, county, and demand to speak with the warden, the captain, the warden secretary, the lieutenant, the head of psychology, and demand to know how is this person doing? What are you doing to keep them safe? We're hearing this and this. What is going to happen to our family? That makes a difference.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
If you know a lawyer, pay the $120 an hour to have them do a legal call. That way the prison sees this person as a lawyer protecting them. They don't need to know that it's just a one-time call. Yeah.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
But that legal call, just the wellness check is what they call it, lets that person get word out about what dangerous stuff is happening, but it also forces the prison to recognize that they might be protected by a legal system. Okay. So these things help. Yeah.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
There's the other version that, like, I wish people would do. Yeah. There's the version where we do BDS, but for every single company that's benefiting from prison labor. Yeah. And say, as long as you let this transgender hate go on, we're not going to support your business. There's boycotting. There's putting people on the road so that the cops can't show up to their jobs. Uh-huh.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
There's protesting outside wardens' houses. There's protesting outside governors' houses if it's for a state prison. Mm-hmm. There is tangibly putting your body on the line. There is sabotaging cop cars that go into the prison. There is barricading the entrances. There's a thousand things we can do to say, if you hurt our people, we're hurting you.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
Whether it's in your pocket, whether it's in your car, whether it's in your daily life, whether it's annoying you.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
We can find things to do if we care enough. And we saw people do it for Palestine. And I don't think transgender lives are less important than Palestinian lives. Yeah. It has to be an equal thing in my mind. Yeah. The sub you said is really great too. Like that's like, that's daily stuff.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
I mean, I don't think people understand at all. And there's all this misinformation too. Like you'll hear these like fascist talking points coming out of liberals mouths to where like, well, I don't want my tax dollars going to like pay for their surgery or I don't want some man just sneaking into a woman's prison saying he's transgender so he can rape everyone.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
And these are like the same scare tactics and like misinformation that's used for every single like every single repression we've ever seen. And it's our job to confront those head on and call them out as lies, show the real information. And it's our job to continue to just force people to recognize that this is a dangerous and real situation. We can't let this entire group of people be destroyed
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
Cause like, if you're going to turn your blind eye to transgender people, you're going to do it to gay people. You're going to do it to women. You're going to do it to black people. And then it's just you.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
And then no one's going to protect your stupid ass.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
We have to, as, or as I have to, as a cis man, we have to keep ringing this bell.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
Like if I didn't have Antifa attached to my face, I could walk into any prison in the country and be like, Oh, there's just a white guy. It's just a, just a white bro. Yeah.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
have no problems yeah a transgender person there's not a single place except for a protective custody yard where they can walk in and immediately feel safe yeah it's the exact opposite everywhere they go is fight or flight the scariest moment you've ever had your entire life 24 7 all day every day yeah picture someone breaking into your home in the middle of the night and that terror you get they have to walk into a new prison every single time and face that terror every single day yeah
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
Yeah. No, I mean, you're absolutely right. Like that is the entire goal is to make sure that the community walks the government line. Because if you don't, this is what will happen to you. And when people pull like the nonsense of like, well, if you're not committing crimes, you shouldn't worry about it. Like they are not looking at how like arbitrary crimes are. Yeah.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
They're not looking at how quickly something can become a crime. Yeah. Or how quickly something that wasn't a crime can be portrayed as one. Yeah. And the trans struggle, like trans people should not have to be on the front line. Yeah. Like at no point should you or any of our trans family ever have to like put their freedom on the line. Like that is, that's a privilege role.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
And my boss shouldn't have to get arrested for trans liberation. Like they should be safe. Like they should be able to feel comfort and warmth. You should be able to feel that safe and warmth and love. Like black people shouldn't be fighting the black liberation fight. That's white people's fight.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
Trans people should not have to put their vulnerable lives on the line for this struggle if we really believe in the liberation struggle.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
There's the hero shit. Yeah. Trying to take leadership. Yeah. Do the David Gilbert role. Be a soldier how they need you and help and fight how people actually need you. Yeah. Not how you think it should be done.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
Yeah, here in Denver, Brenn Rose's Legal Center, that's who I work for. It's a transgender-ran civil rights law firm. We're about to put forward the Trans Bill of Rights here in Colorado to guarantee safety. And I bring that up to say that not only is there direct action and protest we can do, we can also try to weasel into the legal system.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
There's a thousand ways we can fight these motherfuckers and we got to use every single one of them. And I have nothing but love and solidarity for every transgender person alive anywhere. And I'm with you and we're going to get through this, I hope.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
So, Riding in the Cages is out right now. It's with AK Press, and it is an oral history of the political prisoner movement. Hold... from the mouths of those prisoners. It covers like 50 or so prisoners from every movement, black, trans, our elders, our more recent anti-fascists. And it was a beautiful way, not just to hear about like, oh, I fought for this, but what was my life like inside?
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
What did I experience? What gave me joy? What gave me hope? What gave me sadness? And it's a way to see the vulnerability and humanity of those inside. And I think that's really valuable right now. And here soon, my ADX book is coming out on PM Press. Oh, cool. So I'll be hounding you for that here soon, for that coverage. Yeah, yeah. Wait, what's that book called or about?
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
It's going to be called a clean hell. And it's going to be about how I won at trial. Cause I, no one does that in the feds. Yeah. 0.08% of people win in federal trial. And then how I got sent to the federal super max and there's no books out about the super max. There's none.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
So Josh Davidson is helping me edit it. Josh Davidson from Routed in the Cages, who did also Certain Days. So it's been a really great project also.