Dr. Jay Desai
Appearances
Health Chatter
Long Covid
So everybody can get COVID, right? So people talk about COVID is just like the flu, but it's not like the flu, right? The flu and some of those other respiratory viruses tend to impact much younger children and much older adults, people whose immune system is probably not fully developed or compromised. COVID affects all age ranges and perhaps in different ways because of underlying mechanisms.
Health Chatter
Long Covid
So the working age adults are also the ones who are really feeling it. We don't With long COVID, there may be symptoms in younger children, but we don't see a lot of that. But we do see it within adolescents. So people who are 11, 12, and going on up, they tend to recover more quickly.
Health Chatter
Long Covid
But some of them can still be really impacted, particularly those who are involved in different kinds of sports activities really need to be careful and pay attention to that. So, I mean, generally speaking, I would say, yes, it impacts everybody across the ages, but some may have more significant impacts, probably also because of the kind of activities they do and the work that they do.
Health Chatter
Long Covid
And I want to get back a little bit to the question about symptoms and that there's a lot of different symptoms. As Kate mentioned, really the key is not ignoring, not trying to ignore that if you're feeling more tired than usual, if you maybe can't concentrate, that really paying attention to that.
Health Chatter
Long Covid
and those symptoms, and talking to your doctor about those, because often people don't, because they might be more mild or moderate, but they are still impactful on your everyday life. So paying attention to those.
Health Chatter
Long Covid
So, you know, there's, they're similar for a lot of things, right? First of all, can we even, is there even a clinical definition? Can we even identify what long COVID truly is? And, you know, we gave you a definition that was time-based between- Right, four months or whatever, yeah. But other than that, it's really broad because there's so many different symptoms.
Health Chatter
Long Covid
There's just so much we don't know. And so since we don't really have a clear clinical definition or from a public health perspective, what we call a definition where we can monitor it on a population basis, we also don't have a solid sense of evidence. What's the real burden of long COVID in our communities?
Health Chatter
Long Covid
We hear numbers ranging from anywhere from 5% to 30% of people may be experiencing these longer-term types of post-COVID symptoms. But from a researcher perspective, that depends on the kind of study that was done, the population you're studying. I mean, there's all kinds of other factors. And since there's not a test, we just don't have a clear idea of what the real burden is yet.
Health Chatter
Long Covid
So we're still working on that. So that's the first question. The second question is, what is the underlying cause? You know, what's going on with long COVID? And, you know, Kate can talk a little bit more about this, but, you know, right now there's at least three different kinds of, it may be multiple things going on, multiple underlying causes, right?
Health Chatter
Long Covid
um and so it's not just one thing right we know that it gets triggered by covet with the infection but it could cause different pathways within the body that lead to different symptoms um and so we're trying to tease that out the providers that we work with are trying to tease that out because then it gets on to the next question what do you do about it yeah right and um and so that so those that's the next question and right now
Health Chatter
Long Covid
you have to understand sort of the cause. Right now you're treating symptoms that people are having and using methods to treat different symptoms. And so there's still a lot. We don't have... a cure or anything like that for long COVID yet.
Health Chatter
Long Covid
So that's where research is going on too, trying to figure out what kinds of treatments are out there that can maybe minimize the symptoms that people are feeling and, and, and help it go away, you know, other than at least for the beginning part, making sure people rest and those kinds of things. But yeah, So there's these research questions that you're talking about that are driving interest.
Health Chatter
Long Covid
We don't have answers to those yet. We're still working on that, trying to figure some of those pieces out. So this gets back, Clarence, to your comment about transparency and just being honest about what we know and what we don't know when we're talking about this.
Health Chatter
Long Covid
Go ahead. Kate actually read my mind when she was talking about some of these other economic issues. And we need to pay attention to those on an individual level also.
Health Chatter
Long Covid
You know, if you are experiencing some of these, you know, within shortly after the acute infection, some of these issues around not being able to think about getting tired and you're pushing through it because you have to work, right? We have certain populations that can't afford not to work. They don't have paid leave. Right.
Health Chatter
Long Covid
And and and so but they go and by the end of the day, they're just exhausted or even in their work. It could be dangerous. Right. If you're not thinking straight anymore. And so you do need to pay attention to that. And we're working to help providers recognize that, too.
Health Chatter
Long Covid
Because then you may need some documentation to work with your employer to get some accommodations, whether it's shorter hours, some breaks, some other things, right? These are real life issues that people are experiencing some of these symptoms, even though they may resolve after a while, during that short term period, these are still significant things they have to take care of.
Health Chatter
Long Covid
And then for the long-term stuff, as Kate knows, because we get testimonies from people writing into us all the time, there are people who just have to stop working, period. The disability is so bad because of this. that that's a whole nother group, you know, who are severely impacted that we have to think about how do we support them clinically and at home moving forward.
Health Chatter
Long Covid
Talking about how people are being the whole... hybrid teleworking situation and how that's impacting whatever on so many different uh levels uh not just sort of the the biologic level um and uh so yeah that that's that's a great podcast topic
Health Chatter
Long Covid
Well, you know, I mean, we talk about stuff, right? I mean, when we were young growing up and starting our careers, it was having those mentors that you could be in person with. It was your colleagues that were young like you that you would start networking with, right? All that kind of stuff is changing.
Health Chatter
Long Covid
In terms of, you know, the role of long COVID in that, you know, I'm not, I think that's kind of a separate issue. And, you know, how COVID has changed our health behaviors, I think, and how that might impact long COVID. As you mentioned earlier, we still are struggling with this idea of misinformation around COVID, different access and awareness within particular communities, issues around
Health Chatter
Long Covid
whether people should get vaccinated or not, right? So those kinds of things that have come up because of the COVID pandemic, we're still trying to figure out how to address those and what the impact of that is gonna be on long COVID, right?
Health Chatter
Long Covid
If people aren't getting vaccinated, if people can't go in, not only to get tested, but to get vaccinated and then to perhaps even talk to a provider about this, where even providers may not be fully aware of what's going on with long COVID. I think those are all things that and then and then COVID fatigue. All right. The pandemic fatigue.
Health Chatter
Long Covid
All these things are significant public health and individual level issues that we have to combat and that could result in, you know, More long COVID than there needs to be, right? More COVID than there needs to be, more long COVID than there needs to be, unless we can start figuring out ways to bring it back into people's frame that it's still a significant issue.
Health Chatter
Long Covid
Just because it's not as much COVID going on as there used to be, it's still there and it's not going away.
Health Chatter
Long Covid
Yeah. And I mean, there's still there's still things that came out of the pandemic that we're slowing down on. Right. We're we're behaving as if we did before the pandemic, not that, you know, this might be the season when everybody's getting together and big family get togethers or going out to concerts or events. And, you know, you might want to think twice about some of that still.
Health Chatter
Long Covid
The idea of masking, if not, you know. For others, at least, you know, well, for others, right, if you feel like you're getting sick or something, staying away from others, masking, you know, those things are still going to be helpful. But we're not really thinking about that stuff as much anymore.
Health Chatter
Long Covid
And from a long COVID perspective, those are things that can help reduce or prevent the onset of more long COVID and then long COVID. Stan, you're on mute.
Health Chatter
Long Covid
Well, not a... a disease in particular, you know, I mean, we did mention earlier that it looks like, um, the virus itself may be impacting issues around diabetes, uh, blood pressure, kidney disease, stroke, Kate mentioned microclots potentially what it has done. And then a lot of these other conditions, obviously cancer, asthma, diabetes, blood pressure, um,
Health Chatter
Long Covid
Sickle cell disease, you know, these are all conditions, chronic conditions that make you more susceptible to infection and to other things, right? So there's more, hopefully more attention to that, right?
Health Chatter
Long Covid
One of the things for diabetes has always been getting an annual flu shot and getting a pneumonia vaccination on a more regular basis, but people don't do it, even though, you know, it's an issue. So maybe COVID can help raise the profile. It's going to be added to that.
Health Chatter
Long Covid
Yeah. But what it has allowed, I do think both in our public health world is to have more conversations across conversations around the relationships between chronic disease and infectious disease, post-infectious disease. And so I think there's a real opportunity for us to grow that kind of connection moving forward.
Health Chatter
Long Covid
And by the same token, I think that's gonna be happening within hopefully the healthcare provider system too. Because that's still, just as we are in public health, When you're looking at something like an infectious disease, you're not necessarily thinking about other chronic conditions or potentially longer-term chronic conditions, but now you need to.
Health Chatter
Long Covid
So I'm not sure that that's, you know, there's obvious changes yet, but I can see it as an opportunity to grow some of the more collaborative, more thinking about that together moving in the future.
Health Chatter
Long Covid
Yeah. And, you know, I started working in diabetes in 1995 and it was a recommendation back then. And it's now almost 2025. And you haven't heard about it. You know, it's like I don't know what to say.
Health Chatter
Long Covid
My that's that's the question that we're still trying to figure out. Right. And so there are a couple of definitions that get used out there. One is by the CDC. And it is a definition of people still experiencing symptoms after a covid infection. So you have to have had covid four weeks or longer. after a COVID infection.
Health Chatter
Long Covid
So after the acute phase and those symptoms, there's a whole variety of symptoms that we can get into that later. I mean, there's probably over 200 different symptoms that have been reported and some are more common than others. The things that you hear about loss of taste, loss of smell, brain fog, fatigue are some of the more common ones that you hear, but there's still a variety of symptoms, um,
Health Chatter
Long Covid
So four weeks or longer is the CDC's definition. The World Health Organization has a definition of 12 weeks or longer, so about three months. where the symptoms are persistent for that length. So in general, those are sort of the predominant definitions of long COVID, of what we'd be looking for. But again, it is a symptom-based condition right now.
Health Chatter
Long Covid
There isn't a biologic test that you can take that tells you whether you have it or not. It's just how these different symptoms present and how long they last.
Health Chatter
Long Covid
You know, some of the symptoms that you have during the acute phase, so within four weeks after being infected, some of those continue to persist. beyond those four weeks or even beyond the three months. So often those symptoms can be very similar. But then there could be symptoms that come up that you didn't have during the acute phase as well.
Health Chatter
Long Covid
And so that's what also makes it kind of challenging is you could have some new symptoms that are presenting or that just you begin paying attention to and recognizing after your acute symptoms have gone away, that you've still got some of these lingering things like fatigue, um, that you don't expect to have. So, um, so they can be similar. They just carry on.
Health Chatter
Long Covid
Yeah, and this is a concern that is probably going to be growing as we aren't testing as often. And so people are going to be feeling these symptoms, right? They may be mild, moderate, may even be asymptomatic, but could still be related to COVID. We're just not testing for them anymore.
Health Chatter
Long Covid
And so just trying to be more aware that if you feel bad at some point, and then it continues that maybe there was something COVID related that happened.