Devora Rogers
Appearances
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
Nothing reveals opportunities and challenges in the way that talking to humans does. It just doesn't. We feel that brands have to put in the work and ultimately get answers from real people dealing with real challenges that either your company can or cannot solve.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
You may not be an aficionado in one category in your life, but randomly in another, you might be. And even among people who consistently choose value over – I'm somebody that chooses like – I'm like, oh, is there a more expensive price that I can pay? I'll do that.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
Yeah, please do. But there are people that are the opposite who are – and it doesn't matter if they're wealthy or not, right? That they're going to consistently choose the value option. Yeah. We tend to leave out a lot of the people that are choosing the value option in our research because they tend to not be very interesting.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
But I guarantee you, whoever they are, one thing in their life, most likely, unless they're just like a total weirdo, they have something that they really want to be higher quality premium. And for that, they're willing to do the research. They're willing to do the looking and they might be harder or easier to move. So that's the other thing. Yeah. Yeah.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
People become obsessed early on and they're the explorers. They're the ones finding new things. They're evangelizing. And they are the ones that you can lose very easily. So you kind of have to know at every stage of building your business. Because the idea that you could just have loyal people that'll stay with you and that's everyone is just no longer true.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
So you have to sort of plan for, okay, I'm going to have these people that are going to come in. They might help me build my brand early on, but then they're going to defect because that's what they do. And then I've got to get the other people... You know, to to to fill up the back. Right. So that we don't, you know, completely lose when the explorers and promiscuous folks go away.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
Listen, years ago, I did a call with someone who was very senior at the milk board. The call went very poorly. She had seen the work that we did with Google, the zero moment of truth work. And she's like, I want that, but I don't believe that people are doing a lot of different searching and researching and sources using a lot of different sources for milk. Milk is an everyday household item.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
Nobody. And I, and I tried to convince her on the call. I was like, listen, I know you think that. And for a lot of people it is, but even if for 15, 20% of people, it starts to shift. What's that going to look like? She didn't believe me. The call went for, I didn't win the, didn't win. Never heard from her again. It was like really a bad call. Look at where we are now.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
Go into the milk aisle and tell me that that wasn't completely disrupted. There is pea milk.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
Yeah, we're a we're a full service research shop. So research shops tend to be a little bit different than ad agencies.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
There is goat milk. My doctor, my child's doctor told me to get camel milk at one point.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
We're in a different world. And anyone who thinks that a category is never going to shift or be disrupted is in for some surprises. And once it does, you either are ready or you lose your share.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
Our offices aren't as cool. We got rid of our office during the pandemic, which has been great. We're fully remote and the team loves it. And it's given us access to amazing talent all over the U.S. But yeah, we have a little I came from that agency world. So we have a little ad agency in us. You know, we give off one day a month just because I feel like that's an ad agency thing.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
Yeah. Well, you know, there were folks who built, you know, these tech stacks and they said, we'll just we'll be able to answer it all and we'll know everything. You know, it didn't really play out that way. And certainly now some of the changes that have occurred in tech and, you know, some of the questions calling into, you know, a question, you know.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
whether cookies are workable and privacy, all kinds of different things, I think has shown us that there isn't an easy fix for attribution. There's no special key that just unlocks it permanently. You have to do the work. And you have to do the work among humans. Now, working in research, we have...
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
I don't want to call them colleagues, but we have people who are trying to use synthetic respondents, which by the way, that means not a real human, in case anybody didn't know.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
Artificial, not real, fake, to essentially answer research surveys. And I look at that and I go, why would you do that? You could use big data to do that. You could use any number of things. Nothing, nothing reveals opportunities and challenges in the way that talking to humans does. It just doesn't.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
You know, and so I think that attribution is worthwhile and certainly if you're doing a lot of media spend, you've got to do it. But. We feel that brands have to put in the work and ultimately get answers from real people dealing with real challenges that either your company can or cannot solve.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
Yeah. So a couple couple thoughts on that. So my mentor, you mentioned yours. My mentor was a guy named John Ross, who was had been the CMO at Home Depot. And he oversaw Home Depot's growth, you know, the biggest growth of its development. Right. And I learned a lot from him around how I think about research and retail and shopping.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
We wrote a book together called Fire in the Zoo, which is all about the difficulty of selling at retail and all that kind of stuff. And, you know, he used to do so. They had, you know, every imagine, you know, they had Deloitte. They had all every consultant in the world was working for Home Depot at the time. Every single one. They had any amount of data or research they wanted. And guess what?
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
As the CMO, he felt like he still didn't know why people were making choices. And so he would go down and, you know, put on an apron, stand in the paint aisle, and he would ask people a series of very, very simple questions. What made you decide to come in today? Where'd you go for information? What of that information was most influential? What of that information specifically? Was it price?
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
Was it what we told you about the product? Had you ultimately decided that you wanted to come in and make a purchase? And he would go do those conversations. And, you know, small business owners can do that. You don't need a research agency to do that. So if you're really on the no budget side, I would say small business owners need to at least be having those conversations. They won't be at scale.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
And you got to be aware of that.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
We turned it into a quantitative methodology.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
Yeah. And today clients do that methodology at scale when they're trying to figure out where is everyone going for information? Where should I be? I don't have billions of dollars. I have to choose between TikTok and Google or podcasts and, you know, Google search. What should I do? And then now you can do these selfnographies. We use a company called D-Scout, which I'll give them a shout out.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
I think they've built something really cool. There's another one called Recollective. And for a relatively small sum, $20,000, $30,000, you can send out real people into the real world and find out how they're responding to your product or your service or your stores. And, you know, OK, 30 people, that's not the same as a thousand. But you know what?
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
If you work in research, the truth is after about 12 or 18, you start hearing a lot of the same things.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
I mean, honestly, podcasts are pretty amazing. We've been tracking podcasts for 15 years. And for a long time, it was like they were down there with the dust bunnies. Nobody used them. They weren't driving influence. And now we see that they are widely used, I would say, by about 30 to 40 percent of the population. So there's people that don't use them. Fine.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
But there's a decent audience that is really listening and really attuned and they really love the hosts. And so that can be a very powerful channel for brands. And a lot of brands have worried that podcasts are not brand safe because you can't control everything that happens. But consumers tell us that they do not penalize brands if something... I mean, it's different if it's like a bigoted show.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
But if it's just like bad language... Consumers don't care.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
Yeah, same, especially on Fridays.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
Yeah. I mean, I think there's some really great, you know, speaking about podcasts, right? There's a lot of podcasters that use codes and that kind of thing. That gives you an opportunity to know what's working. We're seeing creators do that. Creators are certainly having a moment.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
I'm a little bit worried about creators with the growth of AI because I worry that it could kind of turn things into slop. And that's not going to be good for consumers or brands, but that's an aside. I think you have to live with some level of uncertainty. You're never going to know everything. You just never will. But you can find out a lot.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
Let's say you're, you know, throwing money at TV and radio and podcasts and 10 other things. We do a study where we then ask people, what sources did you use before making a purchase? And we only talk to people who actually made the purchase. So these aren't in tenders. These aren't random consumers. They actually bought the thing that our brand is selling.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
I'm going to give you the German answer, which is jein. Yes and no. Look, if you enjoy traveling and going and having shitty food in a back room while people talk about things for days on end, then you might do focus groups. And some people still do that. But honestly, we have moved to virtual focus groups because you get better respondents. Yeah.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
And if we see that TV is just really low, not a lot of people are using it, but it's really influential, we take note. Or like another one that we see a lot, like people kind of make fun of catalogs. Do you know catalogs are like actually not so bad. Not a lot of people use them, but the people that do, they buy shit. Really influential.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
So we're looking at things through the lens of how many people are using it and we can find that out through research and how influential is it? And we can find that out through research.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
And then like we can hook that together with other attribution models to say, you know what, let's plus up the catalogs or the TV isn't showing up in some of our other stuff, but let's plus it up because consumers, a thousand of them, 80% are saying it worked.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
And Cousin Eddie... you know, people like to write that off. Cousin Eddie matters. If cousin Eddie bought from you and demonstrated any, any aspect of being an evangelist or somebody who's really excited about the product, give cousin Eddie some codes. Do you know, give him some ways to get other people on board. Cousin Eddie is, is great. We'll take him.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
Yeah. Oh, gosh, it is. It's like choosing among my children or my favorite poems. It's really tough, Ryan. But the one that's been most enduring, and I think for me is a really good B2B case study that brands can continue to learn from, is about in 2012, Google came to us. I was working at the time at the IPG Media Lab.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
And Google was having trouble convincing brands that people would buy things online. It's hard to believe that was like 13 years ago. 13 years ago, clients did not believe people would buy things online. Okay. So let's just how quickly things have moved.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
And, you know, Google who's, you know, however many trillion dollar company right now, you know, I don't think that most of their sales guys are making decks anymore, slide decks that they have to like, you know, get themselves a meeting with the client. Like people are like, yeah, generally Google delivers results. But at that time the sales guys had to go in, they had to look sharp.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
They had to have nice shoes and they had to go in in person. And they had to say, you know, we have this offering called search and we're starting to see that people are interested in buying things online and they're doing research. And even if they don't buy it online attribution, they appear to be looking and we think that they are then buying it later elsewhere.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
And clients are like, nah, what are you talking about? Nobody's going to buy laundry detergent online. They're just not going to do it. Well, our research proved that they were. And it became a study that was called ZMOT. And it went global. People started for a while were hiring directors of ZMOT. And they turned it into a case study, a major thought leadership initiative.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
Um, you know, people just don't want to leave their houses right now. So it's like, if we do a focus group in LA, getting people on time in, you know, at four o'clock in the afternoon, traffic's bad. It's just really hard. Um, so we do them, but I would say judiciously and more and more, we're moving to something we call mobile ethnographies.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
And what that taught me is, first of all, never be too certain about results. what the future looks like. Because if, if, you know, 12 years ago, people were like, nobody's going to buy laundry detergent online. Look where we are. I mean, I haven't bought laundry detergent in a store, in a store myself, pick it up off the shelf. I don't, why would I do that?
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
So it taught me to be humble about what the future holds. And also that if you whether you're a big company or a midsize company, you've got to do the work to show up with the thought leadership, the data that says, here's what we're seeing. Will you take will you take a risk on me? And then if it works, turn it into a massive thought leadership thing that you take around and give out.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
And I speak a lot about thought leadership. And I think that brands are wise to do the research and then where they can figure out how to tell that story publicly in a way that makes them look great.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
A lot because, well, so we've been doing it for 12, 13 years and we have norms and stuff, right? So we have watched the fortunes rise and fall of various media types. You know, like we saw where radio was increasing and then falling and going over to streaming and then, you know, newspaper, you know, that have watched that decline, have watched podcasting grow.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
And we have about 50 sources that we've been tracking since that time, whether they're increasing, decreasing, growing in influence, that kind of thing. And what has happened is just that consumers are using more information than ever before. There are categories where they might use less. Fine. But on the whole, if they're going to go buy an expensive workout machine or plan a trip to Italy...
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
they're going to, they're going to spend a lot of time because now here's the thing is that now searching and being online as you research is like a form of entertainment. Do you know, it's like, it's just an activity. You could listen to a podcast, you could read a book or you could like plan your next purchase that you get excited about.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
And depending how research oriented you are or neurotic, um, you might do, you might, you might read hundreds of minutes of things, um, Did I answer your question?
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
Well, and to that point, a lot of, you know, we talked about attribution. Attention is another one that has been a real topic of interest, right? So everyone said, okay, fine, fine, fine. We don't know all the attribution answers, but we're going to figure out attention. We're going to see where they're looking.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
They've also been called selfnographies, which is really freaking cool.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
And so they did a whole bunch of stuff with eye tracking and are they looking, whatever. Well, it turns out that you can be attending something without looking at it. You can be attending something and looking at it and your brain can still be thinking about something else entirely. Yeah. And that does brands no good. And so what we want to look at is how emotionally engaged our folks.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
And so we do that through using Scosche devices or essentially like Apple watches, sport watches. And we can tell somebody's variable heart rate variability that tells us their oxytocin is spiking in their body and sending them signals that it makes them more likely to do something in the future. And I think that's incredibly powerful.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
I bet your immersion. That's the that's the measure. I bet it's through the roof. It's usually on a scale of zero to 100 and anything over 50 starts to get our attention. Yeah, you're probably I mean, because money's on the line, your emotions are on the line. I would love you can download the app. It's called Immersion Tuesday. They have another consumer one, too.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
And you could just track and see that number that your brain, your brain on on sports cards.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
My daughter sometimes does that for me. She'll put on like a fake little focus group, and she's only 10. But she's been, and she knows, and she always serves snacks. So that's, I'm like, okay.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
I'm very ornery about the purchase cycle, I got to tell you. And the reason I'm ornery is because, yeah, it still exists. You still have to get from A to B to C to D. But it doesn't happen in this neat, tidy little order. So when we do path to purchase studies, and we do quite a number of them, I have to, I try to break it to clients.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
I'm like, I'm not going to give you your nice little neat little thing. And oftentimes they're like, but I want the, I want the, I want the graphic that shows the one thing to the next. So, you know, sometimes I give in and I'll give them their little path to purchase, purchase funnel. But what you have to know is that whole huge other things, galaxies of things are happening outside of that.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
And so the way that we like to kind of envision it is almost like as if there's a room full of balloons. And that is everyone's sort of attention and engagement. And some of those balloons rise and fall. Some of them are bigger, some of them.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
And that's kind of how I like to think about it rather than like a neat little tidy thing, because our research shows that less than 5% and it's actually less than 1% ever do things in the same order in the same way. It's just, there's too many things. It's there's trillions of combinations.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
Yeah, absolutely.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
Thank you. It's been fun to be with you.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
Thanks so much, Ryan. Great to be here.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
Yeah, we've got a Substack alter agents. You can find us on Substack. That's kind of where we're writing right now. We shared a little bit about what it was like because we're here in Los Angeles after the fires. And, you know, we're not super consistent, but there's a fair bit on there.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
And actually, there's some really great research we did in August and then repeated in after the inauguration on consumer sentiment. And so I'll just leave you with
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
quarter of americans are like insanely depressed and down in the dumps right now um and so not a super happy topic but i think very interesting to look at in terms of sentiment right now and it did not change it just flipped a little bit conservatives are a little happier now and liberals are a little less happy but essentially the same number of people are pretty pretty darn uh sad
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
Yeah. I mean, and we actually give some recommendations for that. It's like, yeah, maybe do, you know, visuals and maybe partner with, you know, brand with, um, publications that are a little more positive, maybe host a 5k or a puppy adoption thing. I don't know.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
If I was a brand with money to spend, I'd be hosting puppy parties right now.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
Thanks so much. Take care.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
Yeah. No, I mean, I feel like that I have that same feeling that you have when I look at my clients who handle, let's say, CPG brand marketing in a space where you've got to compete on Amazon. You've got to figure out TikTok. You've got I mean, like to me, that's now brain science.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
And so we actually literally do brain science to understand because the amount of channels that people can be in, the importance of being offline, online, you know, a mix of both, you know, dealing with private label, like it is rough.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
And so it's our job to help clients focus on what's really going to matter for them, you know, when they bring something new to market or when they're trying to compete with their, you know, competitors.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
Yeah, I agree. I'll start with the bad news for brands. The bad news for brands is that consumers have more options than ever before. We call it shopper promiscuity. Think about it. Like if, you know, I'm married, I don't know about you, but you know, if, if I had like four amazing suitors outside every single day, standing outside my house being like, you know what though? Like I'm pretty great.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
Like I'm an amazing chef. Like I'm really, you know, I'm really good in bed. Like, It'd be hard to stay loyal. Let's just be honest, right? And that's what brands are facing. Consumers have so many choices. They could go anywhere. They could at any time of day. And so that access, the choice that they have creates this promiscuity.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
And so the difficult news is that brands continue to be brands and what brands often do as brands, both in marketing and in research, is they do something we call brand narcissism. And a lot of research is built on this idea that if you just track people's relationship to your brand, then you'll know enough and then you'll know what to do. It's called brand tracking.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
It underpins all of research and marketing and many people hate it.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
including the people that use it because you know things don't shift that much it's hard to really make sense out of it doesn't and again it's it's narcissistic it's like do you i mean imagine imagine ryan if you and i went out let's just say for like a little friend hang yeah and the whole time i was like hey ryan what do you think what do you think about my hair what do you think about my cashmere sweater what do you what do you think about my friends did you look at my friends do you think that they're am i more innovative than my friend you'd be like get out of here
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
you wouldn't want to talk to me. And that's what brands do with their precious research. So we have really drawn a line in the sand. Our CEO, Rebecca Brooks wrote, um, in our, in our book shopper promiscuity, sorry, we didn't end up getting to name it that because we had a British editor and they didn't want the word. I know it's too bad. It ended up being influencing shopper behavior.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
The original name was shopper. I know the Brits. Sorry. She was like, oh, let's not, we can't. But in a chapter in that book, she wrote what I call her Jerry Maguire letter basically to the research and marketing industry saying, we're missing the boat here. Like brand tracking isn't delivering the answers that you want. And to add to that insult to injury, and then I'll tell you the good part.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
The challenge is that when we survey shoppers by generation, brand loyalty basically stair steps down. So if you're, you know, a boomer, then, you know, you're pretty likely to keep buying, you know, let's say 60% of boomers are going to keep buying products that they've been buying. By the time you get to, you know, millennials and Gen Z, it's like 17% of them express that same brand loyalty.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
So that's the bad news.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
But I would agree with you that performance marketing has shown us that the answer is not just the race to the bottom. Yeah, you can get people to buy things if you, you know, do enough coupons and promotions and whatever. Yeah, you can. But you may not have a lasting voice or presence in the space that ultimately means that brands still do have to do the hard work.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
What's interesting, though, I think, and I think where the opportunity for brands is, is that brands have this idea that it's either all or nothing. I'm going to put my brand out there, show you my brand logo again and again and again. I'm going to have my billboards up that you won't even know what my website is or what I'm selling. I get so mad at those.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
I get mad. My husband has to listen to me for 20 minutes being like, who did that? He's like, okay, calm down.
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Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
Right. Or they say, okay, so either we're going to go the all in, it's just our brand name, brand recognition, build brand, or we're going to go all the way to the bottom and give you all these little details. But actually the center space is where we really see the opportunity for brands. Tell them about your products.
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Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
and what they do and why they're better and why people should believe in you as a brand. So essentially what we've seen is consumers and shoppers becoming really, really smart. And every piece of research that we've done over the last decade shows that people consume more information than ever before about everything, but also all of their purchases.
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Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
And they're okay with it too. Like that's the thing too, is that brands don't have to pretend like they're not. We've actually seen an increase in people accepting advertisement as a useful source of information. They get the exchange.
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Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
Tell me more.
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Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
Yeah, I would agree with you. At the end of the day, the way our brains work, right? So we do neuroscience, right? And I don't know if you know this, but it turns out half the reason we like our spouses is because we see their face every day.
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Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
It's a brain thing. So the next time you get in a fight with your spouse, just be like, am I with you just because I see you every day?
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Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
And that's the same for brands, right? So brands, you wouldn't want to give that up.
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Yeah, it's a name. It's a logo your brain recognizes. It's a logo or a service that you associate with something good. So if that goes away, I do think it makes it harder for consumers. They'd have to do more work. It's not to say you couldn't. And I do think category matters a lot. And if everybody could do what he's suggesting can be done, cool. But I don't know that everybody has that benefit.
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I'll play for second. I'll play for second.
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Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
Honestly, like I'm pretty competitive.
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Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
Or even like 5%. Like being top 5% pays the bills.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
Hey, how's it going, Ryan? Good to be with you.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
You know, like, well, I mean, think about all the places in our lives where we make left turns.
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Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
You know, yeah, it depends. Right. It depends. Mustard is a category that I like talking about.
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Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
And the reason I like talking about mustard is that. There are people that don't care at all. They're like, I just give me the gravy pond or give me the cheapest that I don't care. Is it yellow mustard?
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Navigating Shopper Promiscuity Challenges in Today's Market with Devora Rogers
My father-in-law is like that. Doesn't care. You know, maybe if there's like a flavor, he might splurge, but otherwise it's just like yellow mustard is sufficient. And then there are mustard aficionados like, you know, mustard sommeliers. And they're going to know every little thing. They're going to do little tastings. Right. Right. So there are in every category mustered aficionados.