Dean Pettigrew
Appearances
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
And figuring out how to do that and do it in a sustainable way that's in partnership with the folks that we serve is going to be a priority of mine going forward. So thank you for that.
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
Yeah, so that's a really hard and interesting question to answer. Public health really does embrace many, many areas.
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
And as I mentioned earlier, it's a bit of everything everywhere all at once. I do think there is still a need for public health to embrace all of these areas. Things are changing, but there's still many public health challenges that we haven't fixed yet. So I wouldn't do away with maternal and child health. I think we can focus on, I think of the content areas. and the core disciplines.
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
And then I think where we need to do more work is with the cross cutting and the skills. And so I think we need to focus on the skills needed to affect change and how to address these challenges and teach the students how to think and how to solve problems, how to lead, how to collaborate, how to work with partners with humility. And so I would like to
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
these same disciplines still exist, but not every school of public health can do all of them. And so I think there's also space for schools to really define and programs to really define their areas. And I think this will help students also coming into the field.
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
If you could say, I'm going to go to school X because their strength is in maternal and child health, or they really focus on community-based participatory research and interventions and stuff So I think we need to define that a bit. I think there's also a little tension going on in the field about public health over, you mentioned history has gone through all these transitions.
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
And 100 years ago, there was a lot more social activism and agents of social change. And then as we've shifted to this biomedical model, is this a biomedical discipline? Or are we agents of social change? Are we policymakers? Those types of things. And perhaps there's room for both.
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
Yeah, I think, honestly, I don't know the best way to set it up. I think health equity has to be integrated in all the work that we do, right? And so whether you're in maternal and child health or dental, I think you need to think about health equity. So whether it becomes a separate, unique thing or a cross-cutting thread that underlies all of the work, I don't have the best answer for that yet.
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
But health equity is a new arena that I think is really important communication, how do you communicate complex technical information? How do you tailor it to the specific audience that you're speaking to? How do you combat disinformation that is so prevalent in our society? These I really think of as the skills that the students need and they needed to be embedded without.
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
There's also technological advances like AI And that's going to touch every aspect of society, and we need to be talking about it more. Yeah.
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
It might feel like it, though, right?
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
It's absolutely critical, right? And so I think we as a field for too long, especially in the last few decades, schools of public health, you know, our missions or our faculty incentive structure rewards are really for research and teaching. There's a place where we need to be humble and work with the community to identify what problems are important to them, as opposed to
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
what we think is important, which isn't always aligned. And so I think for communities, we need to work with them in partnership so that they can tell us what their priorities are. And so that's one place where community is important. We also can't just develop our interventions and policies in the ivory tower because when it comes time to implement them,
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
It has to work within the culture of the community, you know, that it's intended. And we need to be having these conversations. And so things that are co-developed, co-created, done in conversation. And that, again, takes time and it takes trust. And I think that's where the challenge is. Thank you.
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
Yeah, that's another big, huge question that we're tackling at the school right now. So we, as I mentioned, cannot tackle public health challenges in a vacuum. And it means we're positioned and I think mandated, required to lean into interdisciplinary partnerships and collaborations.
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
I think it's important to be clear on who our partners are and also that there are different levels of partnerships. And The specifics are going to differ with who and when and time. And so at a sort of lesser level, our faculty can provide content area expertise. They can provide information.
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
So if the legislature is meeting and they need information on sports gambling and its health effects or gun violence, our faculty can be ready and willing to go talk to them about things. But I also think we have to be transparent, I think, and intentional about these partnerships. There's questions about stability, transparency.
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
We have overlapping missions, I think, but sometimes they're distinct and time is really important too. For example, I mentioned the incentive structure in academia, research and teaching. So how do we change the incentive structure so that these collaborations are valued? How do we capture this work so that we can count it towards promotion and tenure?
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
Are the structures in place to support these collaborations and facilitate them? Again, we don't want to fly in and fly out with key partners. We want to build something that's sustainable. And on the health department end, you know, they often have things that they're mandated to do, right? And so they have to get their work done.
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
And so if something doesn't fall squarely directly in the mandate, there's also the potential on their side, you know, to refocus when time gets short. And so I think we need to be selective and intentional with our partners and be transparent on both sides upfront about what we can and cannot do.
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
And then from my standpoint as Dean, I'm really thinking about how do we set this up to support this kind of work? Because we know it's so critically important, but there's also sometimes a mismatch between cultures and priorities and missions. And that's where things get challenging. So I don't know if I've answered your question fully. No, I get it.
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
Yeah, I think we have a lot of students that go to the Minnesota Health Department or Department of Health, and that's a great place.
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
Yeah, and it can be a win-win for both sides because students can bring their skills with data analysis and interpretation. They can be an extra set of hands, especially... um, in agencies that may also be facing staffing shortages and, or, or be underfunded. And so it can be good for them to have the extra pair of hands.
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
It was also great for the students because they get real world experience and they get to apply things outside of the classroom where it might be quite different and they get to learn what, what challenges are you facing? You know, it's, it's very easy to come up with ideas that work in a classroom setting and then you get out there in the field and you say, Oh,
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
I didn't think of this or there's this challenge that comes up or it takes too much time to get the data or there's challenges with those types of things. So we can set up these programs and we have set up these programs. I also see students going and helping in community-based organizations and also have to recognize that many of these organizations are also short staffed.
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
And so over the long term, it'd be great to think about ways that we help support the organizations in supporting our students to help them, right? Because it takes time to get an intern on board and takes time to train them and get them up to working in a specific environment. And so thinking about how we can do that in a sustainable way. And so I favor the more intentional
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
selection of, of, of key partnerships that are aligned with our areas of faculty expertise aligned with our student interests so that it's not 1000 different one-offs that it's, it's, it's a really intentional, thoughtful process where, where both partners benefit.
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
And it's also now, it's part of our accreditation requirements as a school of public health, because I think the field recognizes these applied practice experiences. The students need to have them to graduate and our accreditation body has said that too. It's the right thing to do. It's good for public health, and it's mandated by our accreditation body.
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
I'll say my individual ones and then the ones that come to mind is appealed. My area of research really now is antibiotic resistance. And so that's what's always on top of mind. And I think about that from a one health standpoint, antibiotic resistance in agriculture, antibiotic resistance in the community, in the hospitals, antibiotic resistance in the environment.
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
So it's really truly a one health threat. In terms of the bigger overall threats, Climate change, I think, is huge. And it really impacts everything that we do. Violence, war, mobile populations, conflict is huge. And then there's all the stuff that kind of got lost during COVID, vaccines, the chronic diseases, just the health care system and how we function. as a whole. It costs too much.
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
Yeah, well, grants are... Absolutely core to our mission. I don't know the exact number off the top of my head. It's probably 70, 80%. I'd have to double check that of our budget model is funded by research grants and indirects. So it's a huge part of what we do and will continue to be a huge part. The University of Minnesota School of Public Health has a long history of
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
high quality, impactful research. And so we definitely have to continue that. Where I see a shift or hope to see a shift is more focused on the interdisciplinary and the collaborative grants across the school. These larger center grants being known for areas of expertise, collaborations with the other health science schools on these grants.
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
And so I think those are the types of grants that are going to be needed to really move the field forward and to address many of these complex issues. So, you know, less of a focus on the sort of rugged individual. I'm going to sit in my basement and work on my one esoteric question that I'm interested in. And, you know, there's a value of that.
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
There are many basic science discoveries that were done with that method. But the world is increasingly interdisciplinary. And it's increasingly clear that one individual can't be expert at all things. to address these challenges. So collaborative grants, I think are gonna have to be the way moving forward.
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
Yeah, I think we've learned several things. We learned that what we are in public health already knew is that public health has been underfunded for far too long. And so the infrastructure and the skills weren't, And we really need to rebuild the workforce so that we're prepared for the next challenge. I think we also learned, especially I learned, you know, you mentioned mental health before.
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
That wasn't discussed enough, in my opinion, early on. You know, I think I'm an infectious disease person. We talked about flattening the curve, slowing transmission.
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
But really thinking from a system-wide view of all the aspects of health, you know, the isolation, the mental health challenges that arose, the problems with school that, you know, people who were inside for a long time, that was very real.
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
The importance of the social determinants of health was really brought to the forefront, health inequities, the disparities, and who was more severely impacted. And I think a big lesson and something that we really need to work with our students and trainees on is how do you communicate? There was a lot of trust and increased polarization and division.
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
So how do you translate that technical knowledge in a way that people understand? How do you make decisions with incomplete information? And how do you continue to communicate as the evidence base evolves and articulate why those changes are being made, what you've learned, and how you're shifting decisions? There were real gaps, I think, in that area.
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
And in the past, we've had a lot of students who are really good with their knowledge base, but that being comfortable working in the gray
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
And that you don't know, you can't know, you have to act before you know absolutely everything. You know, research often takes a really long time. During the pandemic, people had to make decisions quickly with incomplete information. And how do you do that? How do you do it effectively? And how do you communicate that in a way that people trust what you're saying and feel safe?
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
that your intentions are good and in the right place.
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
Yeah, I think there's an increasing acknowledgement, appreciation, understanding of the value of community-based participatory research. What I'm hoping to work on is aligning our structures to support that kind of work. That kind of work is so important and it takes time.
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
It takes time to work with folks in the community to establish the relationships, to establish the trust, and it has to be sustainable. I mentioned that I think twice before that we don't want to fly in and fly out. And so really identifying communities that we work with and
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
I feel like my job as dean is to stand up the structures that support, incentivize, recognize, and reward that type of work on the part of our faculty. And we do have faculty working in those spaces. We have faculty working on improving dementia care in African immigrant communities, for example. And those really are done in partnership and co-created interventions that are
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
that are culturally acceptable and in partnerships so that the communities are defining the needs and being able to talk about what challenges they're facing. And so it's happening. I also think there's more work that we can do as schools and I can do personally to support that because I'm not sure our university incentive structure or the tenure structure is fully set up today
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
to reward that type of work. And so that's a challenge that I worry about because people will spend their time, you know, focusing on the things they need to do to get promoted. And trust is so hard. Once you lose it, it is so hard to get it back. So hard. And so being able to support our faculty who are doing this important work and so that they have the time and know that it's valued.
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
And I think it's important that I message that.
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
they can be willing to come out and meet with our researchers. And I think there's a lot of trust issues and it will be, you need to hear from them. And it's not always clear to me how folks get in or what those mechanisms are. So I'm relying on the faculty right now to be the point people. And that's an area where, I would love your ideas about how, because people have to be able to talk
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
You know, I need to know where to go. So haven't figured that part out fully yet. The lines of communications. Yeah. I'm still doing meet and greets, though. So if there are key folks in the community that you think it's important that I meet with, I'd be happy to have ideas.
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
I just really appreciate that you invited me here and I appreciate the discussion and then the back and forth and, and, and my ideas are evolving as I learn about the community and the school. And so let's keep the lines of communication open and try and touch base in the future.
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
Yeah, that's a huge question. And I think it's one that the field struggles with quite a bit. As Stanton mentioned earlier, You don't see public health when it's functioning well. And we work to prevent disease. So all those things that are prevented that don't get you into the hospital, people don't see them. I also think one of the challenges is that the field is so broad.
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
Public health touches so many different things. And so when you do that, it's a little bit of everything everywhere all at once. And so I think we even as a field have trouble articulating what public health does. I think the pandemic was a little helpful actually in helping the public understand. You started hearing terms like epidemiologists are not flattening the curve.
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
And it was a real opportunity for us to engage more with the community because they were hearing these words, they were seeing the social determinants of health play out in action. And so I think that pandemic helped folks understand what public health is.
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
I also think the downside of that was there was a loss of trust and we missed an opportunity, I think, to really define who we are and to improve coordination.
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
Yeah, I mean, I think there's a general need in society for public health education, knowledge, and content. I think public health really teaches us to engage with society and to view the world and address its challenges through this public health lens, which is so important. It links to all the other health sciences and other professions, but it does stand apart in some key ways.
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
So we really prioritize prevention. We prioritize populations over the individual and we prioritize multi-level partnerships. And so being able to look at the world, to engage, to attract people who wanna leave the place better than they found it, I think is really good in general for society and especially in the undergraduate space. We teach students to identify problems, risk factors,
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
introduce prevention measures to assess interventions and determine whether they're working and not and the impact on health. And we are short about 80,000 full-time positions in the field of public health just to get back to those pre-pandemic levels. And so there's a real need for people with training in this area and that's where the undergraduate space can help.
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
So we have a new undergraduate program that just started last year at the School of Public Health. And there's many different ways for undergrads to get involved. There's undergraduate public health degrees, there's undergraduate minors that can just expose you to that general way of thinking. And there's also been a rise in accredited programs, bachelor degrees in public health.
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
And so it's really valuable in multiple, multiple fronts. And even we want everybody to go into public health, there's again, a huge workforce shortage. But even if you don't choose a career that's directly public health, having that community, societal lens, I think makes us better citizens in general.
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
Yeah, that's a place where I think we need to do a little bit more work and be a little cautious. In other fields, we've seen this when you start bringing undergraduates in, sometimes they start getting positions that are previously held by masters, people with master's degrees or higher level degrees.
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
And I really think we need to work more to define what those skill sets are that you need at every level so that you don't see this trend to just undergraduate or the cheapest worker in many positions. But our undergrads can go work in the nonprofit sector. They can work as teachers. They can work for the health department. Same goes for masters. Faculty or those with PhDs can go work at the CDC.
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
They become faculty across the universities. They can work actually in corporate America and in more leadership positions and leading research teams.
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
That's a great question. And I go back to the why quite a bit. I was a biology major and, you know, even going back in time, my parents were both teachers. My mom was a high school chemistry teacher. My dad taught math and my mother pushed me really hard to get a PhD starting probably in third grade. And it was really biology. And I went to Grinnell and it was a liberal arts education.
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
I loved economics classes. I love literature and I love biology, but I wasn't always like, convinced about what this would do for me. And I was good at it, but it didn't click. It wasn't until my junior year that it was the first time I heard the word epidemiology. A faculty member from Hopkins came to talk about the AIDS pandemic in Africa. And she was talking about the challenge of AIDS orphans.
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
She was talking about retroviruses and reverse transcription and the need for drugs and diagnostics. And she also talked about the impact on society how things fall apart when you have people in their major wage earning years or leaders of families that are that are getting sick. And that's when this light bulb went off. And, you know, I was like, Epidemia, what's that? I want to do that.
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
And it brought together all the stuff that I was interested in the economics, the politics, the science and I hear that a lot. It's a great field for people who want to solve complex challenges, as you said, and have an impact. And you really need these skills and that big picture thinking and the outside of the box and learning how all these things connect and interrelate with each other.
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
Yeah. And so I think part of the challenge is time, but I've done this at Yale and we're doing it now. There's a need, I think, to engage people earlier and teaching them about what public health is. And we have a faculty member here who's running a summer camp And they'll be talking about how drones can be used in public health to help sampling and gather information.
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
And so it's gonna be middle school kids. And I think they'll really have a fun time flying the drones and learning about health. And so I think there are things that we can do that way to engage in the conversation. We've worked on pipeline programs.
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
I haven't learned yet how much is going on here specifically, but there's often programs to expose people in middle school or high school with what you need to do to be an MD or a career in nursing. And we can, I think, partner with those groups and expose them to public health. We do see a lot of people come into public health who originally thought they might
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
view themselves as an MD or going into medicine. By the way, I think it's great to have a combined MD, MPH degree, but we also want those people who don't necessarily want to be a clinician get exposed to public health. So engaging with the community, working with high schools. We also have folks in our biostatistics department who are going out into public schools in Minnesota and working on
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
statistical skills, math skills, and using the words public health. And so there are lots of different touch points. I think we need to be intentional about it and really focus on things where they're sustainable and continuity. I think what I don't want to see is the fly in, fly out. Because I think that erodes trust over time. But there's certainly a need for it.