Dave Rosenthal
Appearances
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
ANTHOLOGY — Packages, pledges & protocols (Interview)
Any thoughts, Jared? Where are you at with this? I guess I'm just still confused. Not because you're not doing a good job.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
ANTHOLOGY — Packages, pledges & protocols (Interview)
It's a lot of information. It's a lot of information. And maybe I do need a diagram, perhaps. Yes. Because I'm jumping kind of from noun to noun. I can put a diagram in your show notes. Yeah, that would probably be helpful.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
ANTHOLOGY — Packages, pledges & protocols (Interview)
Yes. Where are the open source lines drawn across these distributions, like Fedora, CentOS Stream?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
ANTHOLOGY — Packages, pledges & protocols (Interview)
I want to hear about the future, man. Yeah. Juicy. Juicy future stuff. Well, real quick before that, how does Meta get their support when their CentOS stream doesn't do what it needs to do? Like, what do they do?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
ANTHOLOGY — Packages, pledges & protocols (Interview)
Max Howell, creator of Homebrew, creator of Tea Protocol. Did I cover all the gamut, or is there more?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
ANTHOLOGY — Packages, pledges & protocols (Interview)
There you go. I do like to hit on what people care about. Now, I think... The last time you and I crossed paths was some sort of announcement around T, I think. And maybe that was TXCL or something. There's more to it. It's been a while. But I remember you put something out. I covered it on Change Dog News. And I wrote something about it, like, I feel like they're trying to boil the ocean.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
ANTHOLOGY — Packages, pledges & protocols (Interview)
I don't know what I said. Oh, yeah, yeah. And that affected your game plans by some way, right?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
ANTHOLOGY — Packages, pledges & protocols (Interview)
Carl George. Go ahead, Jared. You got one teed up. I was just trying to get his name on the record here, just in case he says something. He might run away.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
ANTHOLOGY — Packages, pledges & protocols (Interview)
Right. The people beneath the people beneath the people, right? Like the dependency of the dependency and letting that value chain trickle down or trickle up, whatever direction you're looking at it from. So how does that work then?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
ANTHOLOGY — Packages, pledges & protocols (Interview)
Right. Because if they received a bunch of token for their package getting popular and they went to go sell it and they were just dumping on the market and the demand wasn't there, then the price would crash and you'd have your typical peaks and valleys of the crypto sphere. So you're trying to stabilize the coin, basically? Or what's the tokenomics?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
ANTHOLOGY — Packages, pledges & protocols (Interview)
You're trying to stabilize the value of the token?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
ANTHOLOGY — Packages, pledges & protocols (Interview)
Gotcha.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
ANTHOLOGY — Packages, pledges & protocols (Interview)
Yeah, there's been some spammers spamming.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
ANTHOLOGY — Packages, pledges & protocols (Interview)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, sometimes you learn as you go. I remember that happening. I don't remember what my comment was at the time, but once I saw it, I was like, yeah, this seems like a natural progression. So you live and learn, right? Live and learn. And it was still early, so that's good.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
ANTHOLOGY — Packages, pledges & protocols (Interview)
Cool.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
ANTHOLOGY — Packages, pledges & protocols (Interview)
So what would, so say there's a piece of software that's signed up for the T protocol, and so I can use T to execute it, right? Am I then required to also buy into the, like to give back value, or is it still I can just use that without doing it if I want to? Like it'll lock you in?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
ANTHOLOGY — Packages, pledges & protocols (Interview)
Now, inside of the T protocol, can I place specific bets or buy into specific packages?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
ANTHOLOGY — Packages, pledges & protocols (Interview)
So let's say I know my buddy Adam is about to release a new NPM package, a JavaScript thing. It's going to take the world by storm. I could stake his package when it first comes out, and as that package gains in usage, I would benefit from that? Is that how it works?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
ANTHOLOGY — Packages, pledges & protocols (Interview)
Plus I can do it on my own packages, right?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
ANTHOLOGY — Packages, pledges & protocols (Interview)
When are we going to see?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
ANTHOLOGY — Packages, pledges & protocols (Interview)
I think I appreciate people trying new stuff. I think there's a large number of developers who are just so anti-crypto that it's going to be a stumbling block or something you'll have to overcome. Now, if it starts to work and work well and it's on Ethereum, you said, so that's proof of stake, right?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
ANTHOLOGY — Packages, pledges & protocols (Interview)
So it's not just it's not the proof of work like Bitcoin, which a lot of people have problem with energy draw. So it doesn't have that particular problem. Maybe you can overcome some of the anti-crypto stance of the developer community at large. Is that fair to say? I think so.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
ANTHOLOGY — Packages, pledges & protocols (Interview)
I've been always more on the fence because I think there's potentially cool and interesting new things you can do that you couldn't do before. And I'm waiting to see them, kind of where I've been. And so maybe this is one where we say, here's a cool use of crypto that actually... does what it's supposed to do and brings value and all that. I hope it works out.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
ANTHOLOGY — Packages, pledges & protocols (Interview)
Anti-crypto sentiment.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
ANTHOLOGY — Packages, pledges & protocols (Interview)
Yeah, I hope it's because it doesn't, I mean, I hope it works out, A. But B, if it fails, I hope it's because it just, the idea fails, not because it's haters.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
ANTHOLOGY — Packages, pledges & protocols (Interview)
Well, they would have to do a dependency graph against all projects everywhere, right? True. Versus the ones that are registered.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
ANTHOLOGY — Packages, pledges & protocols (Interview)
Interesting. So is this limited to libraries then?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
ANTHOLOGY — Packages, pledges & protocols (Interview)
Yeah, that would be cool, because right now it would be limited by the dependency graph, so you need to have dependencies. Yeah. So you can't be a command line tool or an application or these other open source projects.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
ANTHOLOGY — Packages, pledges & protocols (Interview)
But it wouldn't track your actual usage, right?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
ANTHOLOGY — Packages, pledges & protocols (Interview)
Like, if Homebrew gets more used, I know it's not in there, but if you imaginarily covered it, it would be based on usage, right?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
ANTHOLOGY — Packages, pledges & protocols (Interview)
Okay. So certainly it's going to be on Coinbase, but he hasn't said where you can buy this token.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
ANTHOLOGY — Packages, pledges & protocols (Interview)
I'll tell you after the podcast. Well, Max, best of luck.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
ANTHOLOGY — Packages, pledges & protocols (Interview)
A lot of hindsight. Well, hopefully some foresight. I'm excited to see what happens when you launch. So, launch.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
ANTHOLOGY — Packages, pledges & protocols (Interview)
So you're not idealist either?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
ANTHOLOGY — Packages, pledges & protocols (Interview)
So two inputs. One being money and the other being... The blog post. Blog post. Annual blog post. And what do they get out of it? What do they get? JSON.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
ANTHOLOGY — Packages, pledges & protocols (Interview)
Always JSON. Yes, man.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
ANTHOLOGY — Packages, pledges & protocols (Interview)
All right. Tell me more.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
ANTHOLOGY — Packages, pledges & protocols (Interview)
I'm on the fence still yet. I think that, I guess, if you get the company, if you actually, if it becomes a thing.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
ANTHOLOGY — Packages, pledges & protocols (Interview)
Right? So it's kind of a... It's not really a thing yet. You're trying to make it a thing. If it becomes a thing, then I get a thing. But in the meantime, if nobody cares about it, then I don't care about it. Just thinking as a guy who's running a company. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
ANTHOLOGY — Packages, pledges & protocols (Interview)
It's like, well, if I don't currently care about supporting my dependencies because of all the reasons why I should, instead I'm going to do it because the pledge exists and I want to look good. I don't know if I'm sold right now because it's brand new, right? And you got a handful of companies doing it.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
ANTHOLOGY — Packages, pledges & protocols (Interview)
So what?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
ANTHOLOGY — Packages, pledges & protocols (Interview)
Yeah.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
ANTHOLOGY — Packages, pledges & protocols (Interview)
What's on the menu?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
ANTHOLOGY — Packages, pledges & protocols (Interview)
Yeah, I understand. That's the part you're trying to drill down on.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
ANTHOLOGY — Packages, pledges & protocols (Interview)
Oh, nice. We used that somewhere. You said that? I've said it a few times over the years. I said it on Change Dog News, and you picked it up?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
ANTHOLOGY — Packages, pledges & protocols (Interview)
That's on my copywriting there, Adam. Putting your money where your source is. Yeah. Yeah.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
ANTHOLOGY — Packages, pledges & protocols (Interview)
Yeah, I will.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
ANTHOLOGY — Packages, pledges & protocols (Interview)
Now you've bellied up to the buffet. You've had your meal.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
ANTHOLOGY — Packages, pledges & protocols (Interview)
Now it's time to pay the piper.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
ANTHOLOGY — Packages, pledges & protocols (Interview)
This is your baby.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
ANTHOLOGY — Packages, pledges & protocols (Interview)
But you're carrying the torch.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
ANTHOLOGY — Packages, pledges & protocols (Interview)
Fair enough. Fair enough.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
ANTHOLOGY — Packages, pledges & protocols (Interview)
All right. Well, I mean.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
ANTHOLOGY — Packages, pledges & protocols (Interview)
Keep an eye on it. Yeah. I'm excited to see what happens. 225 is definitely a move. Yeah. That's a move. If you went 2 to 4, I'd be like, meh. 2 to 25 is legit. 24 is a... No, if you went from 2 to 4... I was like, 2 to 24, I'm like, what's wrong with the 1?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
ANTHOLOGY — Packages, pledges & protocols (Interview)
Yeah.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
ANTHOLOGY — Packages, pledges & protocols (Interview)
So they give a JSON. They don't get a JSON. That's just more given. Yeah. But they become part of, I mean, you're going to, like, report that or, I mean, somehow that thing. You should pull it together to a master JSON file.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
ANTHOLOGY — Packages, pledges & protocols (Interview)
You're currently the biggest one?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
ANTHOLOGY — Packages, pledges & protocols (Interview)
You want a lot of fish, but you want some big fish.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
Free-threaded Python (Interview)
This is one of the primary reasons why Python's reputation is being serviceable in terms of speed, but for certain workloads, certain things, it's too slow, right? Because of the GIL. This is one of the reasons why people will say, eh, I might pick something else because of the GIL. Fair or not fair?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
Free-threaded Python (Interview)
Over 3 million apps have launched on Fly, including ours. And you can too, in less than five minutes, learn how at Fly.io. Okay, free threaded Python on the changelog. Let's do this.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
Free-threaded Python (Interview)
What up, Python nerds? I'm Jared, and you are listening to The Change Log, where each and every week we sit down with the hackers, the leaders, and the innovators of the software world to pick their brain, to learn from their mistakes, to get inspired by their accomplishments, and to have a lot of fun along the way.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
Free-threaded Python (Interview)
When we first launched the ability to collect tracing data, we were really emphasizing the performance aspect of that, the kind of application performance monitoring aspect, you know, because you have these things that are spans that measure how long something takes.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
Free-threaded Python (Interview)
And so the natural thing is to try to graph their durations and think about their durations and, you know, warn somebody if the durations are getting too long. But what we've realized is that the performance stuff ends up being just a bunch of gauges to look at. And it's not super actionable, right?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
Free-threaded Python (Interview)
So if you have slower single-threaded performance, you have loss of features in terms of it being more complexity, potentially, because your loss of a single lock, now you need fine-grained locks and all kinds of other things you can do, which is problematic. And a huge lift by many developers over how long you guys have been working on this?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
Free-threaded Python (Interview)
Many years in the making. Yes. Okay, add all those together. Worth it? Well, we'll see.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
Free-threaded Python (Interview)
Somebody will build it.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
Free-threaded Python (Interview)
It's not like a flag that you give when you run Python. It's a separate executable.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
Free-threaded Python (Interview)
Sentry is all about this notion of debug ability and actually making it easier to fix the problem, not just sort of giving you more gauges. A lot of what we're trying to do now is focus a little bit less on the sort of just the performance monitoring side of things and turn tracing into a tool that actually aids the debug ability of problems.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
Free-threaded Python (Interview)
Right. And it's out there in Release Canada. It's probably out there as we speak, at least in the official 3.13 experimental, as you guys pointed out. Are there early indicators? Are there people who have been just pining for this and they've already tried it in the RC and are saying, wow, we're seeing this or...
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
Free-threaded Python (Interview)
Today I'm joined by Pablo Galindo and Lucas Longa from Core.py, a podcast all about Python internals because these two work on Python internals. Welcome to the show guys.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
Free-threaded Python (Interview)
So for your average programmer out there with their average Python app, whether it be a web app or a desktop app or whatever, should they be hopping on this experimental and giving it a try? Or is it a thing where it's like, if you don't know that your code is thread safe, it's probably not? Or is it the other way around? What's the water feel like? Is it warm? Are there alligators in there?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
Free-threaded Python (Interview)
Now your podcast, is it usually just the two of you talking to each other or do you have a third party ever?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
Free-threaded Python (Interview)
That makes a lot of sense. Somebody should start a list of libraries which have taken that initiative.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
Free-threaded Python (Interview)
Very cool. Well, it's definitely exciting times. I'm even excited. I don't use Python on the regular, but I think that's early indicators of something that's potentially a huge success. So congrats to you guys and the whole team for the effort, at least, to
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
Free-threaded Python (Interview)
make it no longer theoretical and make it an actual piece of software, bleeding edge piece of software that's going to produce even some papers. Should we move on to the JIT? Lucas, you mentioned the JIT is another feature of 3.13. Is there more to say about the GIL? I'm assuming these things will probably interact as topics.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
Free-threaded Python (Interview)
Now, we've been asked to start a Python podcast a few times, as well as an Elixir podcast and a Rust podcast. And we don't usually feel like we have anything to add to the conversation, except when it came to Python, I remember telling our friend Brett Cannon, I said, you guys should have a podcast where it's like the people who work on Python talking about Python, not...
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
Free-threaded Python (Interview)
randos like I would be or people on the, you know, it's a huge community, but there's no voice that is like coming from the core team. And so I think it's pretty cool. When did you guys start this and what was the big idea?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
Free-threaded Python (Interview)
Pablo, anything to add?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
Free-threaded Python (Interview)
If we can move this conversation up a level for a moment, do you guys like this one-year release cadence? It seems like it has its drawbacks.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
Free-threaded Python (Interview)
Who did? You did this?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
Free-threaded Python (Interview)
On this episode, I'm joined by the co-hosts of the Core.py podcast, Pablo Galindo and Lukas Langa, whose name I will pronounce Lukas from here on out because it's just a lot easier for me. On Core.py, they talk about Python internals because they work on Python internals. And today we're talking about Python 3.13, which is right around the corner.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
Free-threaded Python (Interview)
That was more the angle I was coming from. When the train leaves the station once a year, you better get your stuff on it, whether it's ready or not. And I appreciate, I didn't know the history of where it came from. So I think this is definitely progress and improvement and predictability. You know, each time of year it's going to go out, et cetera, et cetera.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
Free-threaded Python (Interview)
And it makes a lot of sense, especially a large project like this with tons of people using it. you want to be predictable, but also not too frequent. I would probably tend towards more frequent because now you have the train leaving the station more times. And if you don't, if you miss this one, that's all right. We got another train leaving six weeks from now.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
Free-threaded Python (Interview)
And so you can hop on when it's ready versus having to hop on once a year. And that's, you know, we've seen success in projects like Chrome, et cetera, with like rolling every six weeks, whatever's ready, we're going to ship a new version. I don't know if that works with languages and runtimes. You guys know way better than I do, which is why I asked the question.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
Free-threaded Python (Interview)
Why don't we make up another term for it?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
Free-threaded Python (Interview)
Yeah. Recursive acronyms I'm well aware of, but I'm not a Monty Python guy, so I missed completely this reference.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
Free-threaded Python (Interview)
Like I have to watch it. Is it from Holy Grail or which movie is this?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
Free-threaded Python (Interview)
A little obscure reference to build an entire Python ecosystem around, but okay.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
Free-threaded Python (Interview)
Again, this background is spectacular because you do run out of references with snakes. How many things can you actually reference? But with Monty Python, there's just countless references you can make, just people won't get them.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
Free-threaded Python (Interview)
Good stuff. Okay, good meta conversation on release cadence. I think I agree with all your points. You have to find that sweet spot and as frequent as you can be reliable without being too frequent. And that probably varies per project. And I'm happy that you guys are happy with once a year. Certainly better than what y'all were doing before. That's very cool.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
Free-threaded Python (Interview)
Let's go back to Python 3.13, because Pablo, at the beginning you mentioned it's officially iOS compatible or something. What does this mean? You can just fire up Python on your iPhone?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
Free-threaded Python (Interview)
That's cool. So Lucas, Pablo speaks very fast. How do you keep up with him?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
Free-threaded Python (Interview)
That definitely wasn't what I was thinking, but it makes a ton of sense. I think it's going to make some people very excited.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
Free-threaded Python (Interview)
Write some Python code and deploy an app based on it. Like, build an app in Python.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
Free-threaded Python (Interview)
Well, now you have me thinking about the future. Let's close on this wish list. Imagine that the three of us are sitting down next September and talking about 314. What do you want us to be talking about? What do you hope we're talking about going into 314, each of you?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
Free-threaded Python (Interview)
Yeah, that's awesome. I was reading about your improved error messages, and I think that's the kind of thing that has to be a sustained effort over time. It's like one of those paper cuts kind of things where it's like we're just going to continue to polish this thing. And so a great effort. I'm glad that you struck that up.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
Free-threaded Python (Interview)
Well, the podcast Core.py, if you are a super Python nerd and want to nerd out with these two about internals. on a more frequent basis, then we'll cover it here on The Change Log, which sounds like it's going to be about once a year. I'd love to have you guys back next September and be talking about 314.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
Free-threaded Python (Interview)
Hopefully, all of our wishes will have come to fruition and we'll have people out there free birding it. I mean, free threading it. Q Leonard Skinner here. And enjoying the new Python with no gill and the performance improvements that are possible there. Lots of potential. I'm certainly looking forward to it. Guys, thanks so much for coming on the show this week. Thanks for having us.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
Free-threaded Python (Interview)
Okay, so now that Python is officially experimentally free birded, I mean free threaded, are you going to defenestrate the gill? Let us know in Zulip. Yes, the changelog community's conversations are now happening in Zulip. Join today by signing up. at changelog.com slash community. If you've already signed up, but you want your Zulip invite, just sign in and click on send me a Zulip invite.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
Free-threaded Python (Interview)
You'll see it. Of course, it's totally free and a totally cool place to hang out and discuss. Let's do one more big thanks to our sponsors of this episode. Sentry. We love Sentry. You might too. Use code changelog, save 100 bucks. Fly.io, the home of changelog.com. Ship something in five minutes or less. Learn how at fly.io. And of course, to Coder.com and Unblocked. Please support our sponsors.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
Free-threaded Python (Interview)
They support us. And thank you, of course, to the GOAT. Breakmaster Cylinder is the greatest beat freak of all times. Finally, thank you for listening to our shows. We truly appreciate you spending time with us each week. That is all for now. But on Friday, we are talking about developer happiness and unhappiness and productivity or lack thereof with our friend Abinoda from DX.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
Free-threaded Python (Interview)
When we recorded this conversation last week, it was slated to be released on October 1st, but now they are targeting October 7th. So if you're listening to this in the future, 3.13 is fully baked. But if you are listening right after we hit publish, wait a week or grab the release candidate, which is 99% baked. Why are we all so excited about Python 3.13?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
Free-threaded Python (Interview)
That is awesome. The personal touch means so much. It does. And it's worth going that extra mile in those circumstances. Well, we're here today to talk about Python 3.13. Hopefully, I'll be able to keep up with you, Pablo. Because not only do you speak fast, but I'm kind of a visitor to your guys' world. So maybe keep them in check, Lucas.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
Free-threaded Python (Interview)
We're going to specifically talk about the biggest... And I guess, I mean, this is monumental, in fact... Our community member who thought we should do an episode on this, a shout out to Christian Klaus, says this is kind of massive for Pythonistas. This is the biggest feature coming out in 3.13, which should probably be out there if you're listening to this.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
Free-threaded Python (Interview)
We're shipping this October 2nd and slated to release October 1st officially. At least the RC is out there, but software and ship dates, we think it's probably out there. if not coming very, very, very soon, the ability to disable or remove the global interpreter lock or the GIL, as it's so lovingly referred to. Let's start at base principles. What is the GIL?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
Free-threaded Python (Interview)
And then after that, why would you want to remove it?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
Free-threaded Python (Interview)
Well, the global interpreter lock, aka the GIL, is now experimentally optional. This is a huge deal, as Python is finally free-threaded and able to run with true parallelism. There's more, of course, and we get into all the details. I think you'll enjoy it, even if, like me, you aren't a regular Pythonista. But first, a mention of our partners at Fly.io.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
Free-threaded Python (Interview)
Let's earmark that for a future part of this conversation. So what you're saying is... When running Python, you can switch quickly between cores, but you can't actually run the same code on multiple cores at the exact same time. So you're saying it's concurrent, but it's not parallel. Yes, correct.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
Free-threaded Python (Interview)
Because of that lock, one at a time, and it can switch at the speed of light, but no true parallelism until now.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
Building customizable ergonomic keyboards (Interview)
When we first launched the ability to collect tracing data, we were really emphasizing the performance aspect of that, the kind of application performance monitoring aspect, you know, because you have these things that are spans that measure how long something takes.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
Building customizable ergonomic keyboards (Interview)
And so the natural thing is to try to graph their durations and think about their durations and, you know, warn somebody if the durations are getting too long. But what we've realized is that the performance stuff ends up being just a bunch of gauges to look at. And it's not super actionable, right?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
Building customizable ergonomic keyboards (Interview)
Sentry is all about this notion of debug ability and actually making it easier to fix the problem, not just sort of giving you more gauges. A lot of what we're trying to do now is focus a little bit less on the sort of just the performance monitoring side of things and turn tracing into a tool that actually aids the debug ability of problems.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
Building customizable ergonomic keyboards (Interview)
No.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
Yeah, one of the things that we're seeing is that in the past, people had separate systems where they had like logs on servers, written files. They were maybe sending some metrics to Datadog or something like that or some other system. They were monitoring for errors with some product, maybe it was Sentry.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
But more and more what we see is people want all of these sources of telemetry logically tied together somehow. And that's really what we're pursuing at Sentry now. We have this concept of a trace ID, which is kind of a key that ties together all of the pieces of data that are associated with the user action.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
So if a user loads a web page, we want to tie together all the server requests that happened, any errors that happened, any metrics that were collected. And what that allows on the back end You don't just have to look at like three different graphs and sort of line them up in time and try to draw your own conclusions.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
You can actually like analyze and slice and dice the data and say, hey, what did this metric look like for people with this operating system versus this metric look like for people with this operating system and actually get into those details.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
So this kind of idea of tying all of the telemetry data together using this concept of a trace ID or basically some key, I think is a big win for developers trying to diagnose and debug real world systems and something that is, we're kind of charged the path for that for everybody.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
Yeah, I mean, I guess, again, I'll just keep saying it maybe, but I think it kind of goes back to this debuggability experience. When you are digging into an issue, you know, having a sort of a richer data model that's, you know, your logs are structured. They're sort of this hierarchical structure with spans.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
And not only is it just the spans that are structured, they're tied to errors, they're tied to other things. So when you have the data model that's kind of interconnected, it opens up all different kinds of analysis that were just kind of either very manual before, kind of guessing that maybe this log happened at the same time as this other thing, or we're just impossible.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The Moneyball approach (Interview)
We get excited not only about the new kinds of issues that we can detect with that interconnected data model, but also just for every issue that we do detect, how easy it is to get to the bottom of it.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
Reverse rug pull, so cool? (Friends)
When we first launched the ability to collect tracing data, we were really emphasizing the performance aspect of that, the kind of application performance monitoring aspect. Because you have these things that are spans that measure how long something takes.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
Reverse rug pull, so cool? (Friends)
And so the natural thing is to try to graph their durations and think about their durations and warn somebody if the durations are getting too long. But what we've realized is that the performance stuff ends up being just a bunch of gauges to look at. And it's not super actionable.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
Reverse rug pull, so cool? (Friends)
Sentry is all about this notion of debug ability and actually making it easier to fix the problem, not just sort of giving you more gauges. A lot of what we're trying to do now is focus a little bit less on the sort of just the performance monitoring side of things and turn tracing into a tool that actually aids the debug ability of problems.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
Yeah. I've lost track at this point.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
I think we started diversifying the kinds of things we were talking about, right? So we started talking about things that are adjacent to Go, right? Not just the language itself. And, you know, there's only so many episodes you can have on the actual syntax and the concurrency and all these things. There's been dozens and dozens of blog posts about, oh, why I like Go?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
I mean, wherever you fall on the fence there, but the things that are being built will go, the productivity gains people are getting out of it, what companies are being... building the entire stack around, like these things became sort of where we spent a lot of times. And then as time went on, I think we've also sort of bringing even non-technical, but still adjacent to some degree, right?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
Topics into the mix as well. Now, I don't know how much our audience appreciates that sort of diversity of topics. You know, I'm sure some people would prefer the hardcore technical stuff all the time and nothing but,
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
But I'm sure I've heard from other people as well say, hey, remember that episode you did on something that is not ghost specific, but it was something that maybe they were investigating or going through it. And they heard from one of the hosts about something that resonated. So I hear it on both sides, right? So I think the... For me, it's unless somebody says, hey, you can't do that.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
I think a lot of topics should extend beyond ghost specific things, as long as there's some connection back, right? Because life is not one dimensional, right? So there's going to be some things that are relevant, right? That makes sense to touch on.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
Yeah, so for some context, every once in a while, you'll have these sort of, let's just say, influential, in one way or another, by some definition, video or blog or whatever it is that comes from a popular figure. In this case, it was Paul Graham, which hopefully most- Famous for his essays. Right, yeah, it's famous for his essays.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
They tend to be sort of impactful, short to the point, no flowery language. People love that about those essays. And Founder Mode was one such essay and sort of focused on sort of what happens when you especially start to go from a startup and you become a scale up, you know, as they use in terminology and you start to grow as a company.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
And now you have multiple layers being added, you know, you know, between the top and the people on the ground, you know, writing software, you know, shipping things. So you have all these sort of levels, these managerial levels, you know, that come into the picture.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
And the founder or founders with the original idea or the original vision, they start getting sort of decoupled further and further away from the people with the boots on the ground, implementing the thing, implementing the vision, pushing things forward.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
And then now, because of all these sort of managerial layers, there become sort of different ways you can work in a company with these different managerial layers. You have the people that are sort of action oriented and you have the people that are So discussion-oriented, right?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
And the moment you read it, you're like, oh, yeah, I've been in those situations where I have the managers who have to have a meeting, set up a meeting for a meeting. Like, yo, dog, I heard you like meetings, right? So I got you some meetings, right? That's right. And then you have the people that are sort of more action oriented, right?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
So all that, basically, there's this, you know, this aspect of the founder sort of, you know, or an individual sort of going founder mode, basically saying, hey, boots to the ground, let's do this, remove the layers, remove the sort of the fluff. be actionable, like be action oriented and sort of do things. At least that's what I took away from the whole thing.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
So it's like basically saying, do whatever it takes to move the mission forward, move the product forward, whatever it is that you're working on, move that forward and sort of know exactly what kind of management you're on around you, if at all, right? That kind of thing. So Again, I think he was speaking to startups and scale-ups, companies that are not huge, massive empires.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
Because those companies, once you get that big, there's naturally going to be multiple layers of management. I don't know if you can even avoid that. That's just what happens the more people you have in an organization. But if you are a startup or scale up, perhaps sort of push back against that tide, right?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
Of sort of that, of all those layers, because you're going to be more effective and you're going to be delivering stuff. So to me, I'm like, okay, if I'm just a cog in the machine, I'm just low in the totem pole, right? I'm not a founder, right? The founder is saying, hey, let's push, let's go. Let's get in there and deliver things. Let's work on things, right? That zeal, that passion, that energy.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
If I'm just getting a paycheck every couple of weeks from you, I'm putting in my 40 hours or whatever. Like, should I care? Because it's your company, right? Unless I'm getting some equity or stock or something, right? From doing more, right? Then you're paying me for, right? Like, how should I view founder mode? If I'm a software engineer writing Go code, right?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
How should I... And you come at me with founder mode, like... Should I care? Is it relevant to me? Like, so basically I'm trying to, the way I understood it is, okay, I understand the spirit of the essay, but how do I make it applicable? How do I take the good parts, so to speak, right? And make them applicable to what I do on a day-to-day basis if I'm not a founder, right?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
And that's what our discussion focused on.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
I would say if you're not, so I think my attitude is, on sort of being a quote unquote cog in the machine has sort of shifted over the years. Before I used to think, and early on in my career, or perhaps not even a, not even sort of my career, but early on, or rather, let's say, let's go back 10, 20, 25 years, right? Companies, right? That's back. Hey, I've been, I've been doing this for a while.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
I've been around. I've been around. People have been paying me to write code for 26 years now. I calculated it and I'm like, and I'm astounded by that fact. But anyways, if I go back to the early days, you know, a few years ago where companies had a, I think, had a softer edge, at least one that appeared that way. You know, companies used to talk about, oh, we are family here, right?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
You know, we care about our people, like all of that sort of language. I think underneath everybody sort of knew You pay me to do the job, and I know if I stop doing the job or if I don't do it well by some definition, I'm out of here, right? People knew that, but companies were more willing, at least in the tech sector, were more sort of softer on the edges, so to speak.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
But nowadays, I don't think anybody who works in tech, especially in light of the recent rounds and rounds and rounds of layoffs and everything else, and you got... People are recording and putting their layoffs on TikTok and things.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
The attitude towards companies with those languages that say, oh, we care about our people, whatever it is, yet executives are raking in millions in bonuses while they're laying off people. That's dissonance between what they're saying or have been saying and the reality of you being an employee or cog in that machine. No matter how good a job you do,
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
You are always at risk, no matter how good a job you do. While they might position your layoff or your firing as a performance thing, we all know that's not always true. Right. We know at the end of the day, companies, especially publicly traded companies, they don't have your best interests at heart. They have the shareholders and best interests at heart. That is priority one, the shareholder.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
Right. So you as an employee, you are means to that end. Right. So the more you understand sort of that reality. Right. The more you can calibrate your relationship with an employer or whatever you're involved in. Right. So that doesn't mean, however, that you stop caring about your craft, what you do, right? The professionalism that you bring to your work, right?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
The passion that you bring to your work. That is a personal thing. No company is ever going to be able to take my level of interest, of passion, of wanting to do the right thing, right? No company holds sway over that, right? If you hire me for a job, I'm going to do that job because I'm a professional. That's what I do, right? You pay me, we exchange services, right?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
I give you what you're looking for and you pay me in exchange for my time, right? So that's a very professional thing. And I see clearly the nature of that relationship. The problem comes when you start adding things around it to make me feel a particular way about your company. You don't need all that flowery stuff, right? I will do the job.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
So I think in this day and age, I think for me, I took founding mode to mean, okay, care about what you do, right? At the deepest level. If you stop caring about maintaining a code for your company, or if you think, you know, your coworkers are annoying for whatever reason, or you stop loving going to work and stop loving that job, then maybe move on, right? Maybe your time there is over, right?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
But don't sort of lower yourself to the point where you're just doing a crappy job because you don't like where you are. Just move somewhere else and be your best self, right?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
So we all win. So let's carry that thought. Let's pull that thread a little bit. If it meant you get laid off or fired or whatever, whatever term they want to put around it, right? In order for the whole to keep moving forward, do you also happily accept that?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
disappointment, not resentment.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
I have a quote for you. Okay. Ego is the enemy.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
You can try. You can chime in. I don't, but what I will say is that I'll be patient. So in my, in my 26 year career, I've been laid off twice. Right. I've had, and I've worked at very large companies. I've worked at very small companies. Right. So I've, I've, you know, I've, I've,
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
lived enough life as a professional to have seen all matter of ways, you know, like layoffs are done well, or people are treated fairly or unfairly, kindly, unkindly. So I've been exposed to enough of that. So I speak from that standpoint, I speak from a position of privilege because I've experienced all these facets, right?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
The one thing I think is like consistently that it wasn't always like this when I was younger. and more foolish and more sort of hot-blooded, if somebody said, hey, you're not doing a good job, or we have to lay you off, or we have to fire you because of reason X, Y, and Z, and I have been fired once, the initial reaction is always visceral, right? No matter how...
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
you know, stoic you are or try to be, right. Cause it's, it's disappointing, right. It's like a, it's like a stat, you know, especially if you, you know, you've been doing a good job, right. Like to be told it's like a rejection. Nobody loves rejection, right.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
To be told that, Hey, we're going to have to let you go because like you say, Jared, like you thought you were, you know, indispensable, but at the end of the day, really you're not right. So at the end of the day, again, You, the business, a company doesn't exist to serve your needs, you know, or to cater to your feelings, right? It exists to make other people wealthy, right?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
Now, if you happen to also get some level of wealth by some definition, right? You know, relatively speaking from where you were and what you've been able to earn at an organization, that's great, right? It just keeps you happy, keeps you chugging along. But ultimately, businesses are designed to make a certain group of people at the top wealthy. There's nothing wrong with it.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
I mean, you start a business for that reason. You want to be well off. You want to take care of your family. You want to have money in the bank. Profit. Yeah, exactly. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. So you get hired as a tool for that purpose. Now, if... When you get that, okay, I've been let go. I thought I was indispensable and I'm not.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
I've experienced enough of that to now, basically, if I'm going into an engagement with an employer or doing consulting, whatever it is, I have to go in. I have to check my ego at the door. I have to say, you know what? I'm going to go in here and I'm going to do as best a job as I can based on what I know the customer or the employer or whatever it is wants. And I know that at any point,
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
I could be removed from this position. This could be taken away, right? It's like that, you know, I believe there's an ancient Chinese proverb or something basically that says, maybe it's not Chinese, but I'm misremembering, but it basically, it's the idea that a wise person gets given this beautiful ornate teapot. Very elegant, very beautiful to look at, custom-made and gifted to them.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
And then they have a child or a sibling or something like that that keeps coming to them and say, hey, don't you love the teapot? Don't you admire it? He's like, yes, I do, but it's already broken. And the child is like, what do you mean it's already broken? Yeah, it's already broken. It is what it is, but it's already broken. I can't continue to have this forever. It's already broken.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
And through conversation, you come to learn that the way that this person is able to sort of stabilize themselves so that eventually when the teapot does indeed get broken, Maybe it's a child that knocks it over accidentally or whatever it is. The teapot is now broken. This beautiful, very enjoyable thing is now no more. That person is now, huh, okay. Because it was already broken in their mind.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
So they didn't lose. Their world wasn't shattered along with that teapot because they didn't invest so much of themselves into it. So I have to go into these things saying, hey, It's already broken, right? I'm here to do as best that I can do for as long as I can do. But if this thing were to be taken away from me, right, tomorrow, next week, next year, right, that's okay too.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
What do you got to say about that, Jared?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
See, but being indispensable implies that others must see you as such. Now, you're putting that level of self-worth in the hands of others, right?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
what to me i don't understand where you're coming from jared to me the way i i and i used to approach it like this right i used to because i like for people to like me right we all do like it's like you know it's ingrained in us as human beings right we we want to be like we we we're a tribal sort of you know kind of entity right so the the we don't want rejection right from the tribe right we want to be welcomed and and liked and say oh it
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
Johnny, hey, how you doing? Because, you know, by being that sort of likable, by being the one that always delivers, always comes through, right? You're the one teammate, everybody can just call in and boom, you just solve all the problems, right? By being that, right, you get that sort of that little hit of dopamine, right? It's like, ah, I love when people love me, right?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
But you're putting that sort of self-worth in the hands of others. And nobody will tell you, like a stoic, right? Nobody will tell you how dangerous that is than those who know how it feels when all that adoration and admiration gets pulled back for one reason or another. Because it's not in your control, right? What is in your control, right, is how good a job you do.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
how well you deliver on the mission, the work, whatever you've been assigned to do, however small it might be, right? If you can deliver and objectively say, hey, I did a good job there, what people think of me as a result is not in your control. So I'm like, hey, whether that praise comes or goes, it doesn't matter to me, right?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
Because at the end of the day, I know if I get laid off, it's not going to matter how much praise I got or didn't get because that too is outside of my control. The only thing I have control over is the work that I'm doing right now. And how good do I feel when I've delivered it and get up and walk away from this keyboard, right? How do I feel about myself?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
You can keep your job, Jared.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
Interesting enough, something you said earlier brought back a fond memory. One of the positions in the past that I got laid off from was, Actually, no, that one was, I can call it a firing, right? Because, you know, it wasn't, oh, we're making cuts because, you know, finances or whatever that you typically hear these days.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
It was like, we didn't think, we were expecting something else, but we got something different. And which I'm like completely fine with, right? What happened though, I think maybe six months later or less than a year later, like to piggyback on what Adam was saying about, you know, never burning bridges, right? Like we parted ways like very amicably. Right. That was not resentful.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
You know, we did the thing. We sat down from across from each other, looked each other in the eye, say, hey, I was expecting this. I didn't get that. And I was like, OK, like completely understand. We remain friends. Right. And this was back in Boston. So we remain friends and everything. And six months later. Right. Or however long we actually go and have lunch together. Right.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
We sit down, you know, I'm going to say, Hey, how's the business? You know, how's, how are things going? Whatever it is. And, and literally again, the same experience sitting from across the table. It was like, yeah, we made a mistake in letting you go. Right. So when I heard that, bam, when I heard that, I was like, Holy smoke. Internally, I'm like jumping for joy. I'm like, I knew it. I knew it.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
I guess I was, I just, I just didn't, you know, hang a lot on it, but I understand what you're saying. Like feeling like when you leave, you leave a hole that is noticeable. Right. Right. Like, yeah, I love that. I mean, I'm not going to lie.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
It's, it's, it's feeling that you have that kind of impact, but the thing is the higher ups are probably never going to feel it as much as your team or as much as people you work with closely day to day.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
That was great. Yeah. Oh, it felt amazing. It felt amazing. I was in cloud nine. I was like, oh, man, I knew it.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
I'm afraid of just wildlife. Like, you know, like I'm afraid, like I have deer, like, you know, like parking on my lawn, like all day, all night. I'm afraid that, you know, usually they like shy away from you. Like if I'm walking on a path or whatever, they might, you know, give me a white birth. But I'm like, one day they'd be like, we outnumber you, man. Right. We could take you out.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
And I got horns. There's like a dozen of us out here.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
It's just a hunch that I got. So one of the things that I do and have always done as a professional is I'm always looking at job postings, right? So while, you know, you have, you know, YouTube, you know, influencers saying, hey, this framework is the best thing or whatever.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
Like people are, you know, geeks get excited, you know, nerds get excited about, you know, technologies and programming and everything else. I'm like, okay, that's one lens. The other lens is what are companies actually hiring for? What list of technologies do you see on those job descriptions? So I'm always looking at those job descriptions. Hey, what do SREs need to know these days?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
Hey, what does a full-stack developer need to know these days? So I'm always keeping an eye out to see where the trend is going. Regardless of what the hype is doing, I'm looking at what people are actually getting paid for. So I started noticing, right, the same job. I would literally bookmark it, right? I would take a screenshot of it, right?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
And I started noticing the same job, right, with almost the same description, maybe a word change here and there, often from the same recruiter, other times from a different recruiter, but the same job, again, with a word change here and there, right, asking for the same exact thing. And I'm like seeing the same thing come up over again week after week after week after week after week, right?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
Before, I didn't pay any attention because we didn't have, you know, back in the heyday, everybody had a job. So less of that, right? And basically companies were just tripping over themselves to hire people, right? Like, you know, at the start of the pandemic and everything else, when all the overhiring was happening, so they say. So you didn't notice it as much, but not, you know.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
So many people on the job market, right? You're seeing the influx of these job postings and you're like, okay, how come there are so many job postings, especially in places like LinkedIn or Indeed or Dice or whatever it is, so many job postings and so many people are saying they can't find jobs.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
going from six months, you know, like, you know, from, from three to six months before they find a job, like getting an interview is harder than it's ever been. Like, I'm like, something is not making sense here. What are all these job postings? And I started seeing the pattern repeating over and over and over again. Then I'm like, um, something doesn't add up here.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
Is somebody just training a model or something? It is when people just keep on sending their resume. resumes into this void? Like, like what is going on here? So I have no evidence, right? No, no empirical evidence to say, Hey, this is like what's happening. Cause I don't know, you know, if anybody's going to, you know, sort of step up and says, yep, we do that. Right.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
I don't, I don't think it would be a bit in their best interest, but I mean, something smells odd.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
Yeah. This goes back to understanding the relationship between you and a for-profit entity.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
You are not a priority, my friend. You are a cog in the machine. And that's okay too. That's the thing. Like we all, I think in this market, we've all accepted that it is what it is. But you know what? You know what though? You know what? As they say, the pendulum will swing the other way. Mark my words. The pendulum will swing the other way, right? When it does, right?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
As a cog, don't be a douche. Don't go in, you know, walking in. You know what I mean? This was a huge mistake. This was a huge mistake. I told you, mofos, not to do what you did, but you did it. Now you're going to pay the price. I was indispensable. Don't be that guy. Don't be that guy or gal. Again, this is not... This is not about them, right? Ultimately, I think it's about you as a person.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
And I keep throwing that term around, and it's one that takes your heart greatly, like being a professional, right? There's a way a professional carries themselves. There's a way a professional does things, right? You're a professional, you get paid for money. Hopefully, you love what you do to get paid that money, right? But as a professional, you are always a professional.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
It would icing your cake. It would confirm. It would confirm your suspicions.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
Good times, bad times, happy times, sad times, you are a professional.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
There's a natural thinning of the herd happening. or that has happened with any innovation, something that changes the way things have always been done. Whether it's in tech or in farming or you name an industry, there's innovation that comes and disrupts the way of things. And that should be expected.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
I think tech, for so long, we were so comfortable with the fact that basically we were untouchables. right? We, you know, no, no one could do what we did was, you know, magical, right? It was, it was absolute God. Yeah. Literally like, you know, we have, we have memes and, and movies and, and, and things like, like we were, we, we, we were, you know,
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
hailed as these powerful beings who they only were the ones who understood how to make the computer do things, right? That mere mortals couldn't even aspire to, right? And we went through that, you know, and that whole notion was sort of, you know, amplified back when in the Obama era, when we had all these learn to code, everybody should learn to code, like that whole thing, right?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
I mean, in the age of AI, anything's possible, you know?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
Remember that whole push towards everybody Left and right organizations were spinning up to run workshops. Heck, I ran GoBridge workshops. I would go in my local community in Baltimore. I would find people who wanted to learn how to code. I would get them in a room on a Saturday or Sunday and work with local businesses to get people into the room to learn how to code.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
Because I truly believe, and I still do, that A career in tech, right, is a life-changing generational, you know, sort of impact kind of skill to develop, right? So we went through that phase. Now you barely hear about these workshops happening anymore. You know, dev boot camps, you barely hear about those things anymore, right? Because the market is not...
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
you know, suitable for these things, right? So all that to say is that now getting into tech is gonna be a little harder, or rather you can get into tech, but getting a job in tech is gonna be a little harder because there are different skills that are not expected that you need to bring to the table, right? understanding what an LLM is and how to work with them.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
I'm not saying you need to go get into the math, the machine learning math of it all. You need to become a data scientist. But you need to know how to understand what an LLM is and how to use it, how to build a RAG system, which is basically the hello world of AI development. You need to understand how to build a RAG system. So these things need to not be foreign to you.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
So the skill sets you need is just changing because there's new innovation. So I think there's always going to be room for software engineers. It's just the skill sets are changing. Will there be fewer jobs? Fewer jobs because those jobs now, the skill sets required for them, the bar is a bit higher.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
So some of those things that you used to hire a junior for, you can now outsource to an LLM or a Gen AI, some Gen AI technology. So people are becoming more productive. So it just changes the bar a little bit, but I don't think... I don't know, people are generating a lot of AI slop that people like me are going to have to come in and fix anyway. So I'm like, hey. I'm okay with that.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
Yeah, yeah. By all means, everybody, if you're out there, you want to let AI generate your initial domain. app, you know, thing for you, please go right ahead. Go right ahead. Like make more of those things, please. No code it all day long. Get to it. No, no code it all day long. It's fine.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
Just go right ahead because the only thing you're doing is making sure that I and my, and people like me are going to have, are going to have jobs. So that pendulum will swing.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
Who would have thought that your tech startup with a .io domain name as its identity would now be impacted by a 99-year lease coming up?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
So the .io domain is... Right. It's technically going to be within the, if you want to call it, the jurisdiction of basically the Mauritius, right? Now, I would imagine that if they decided to get into the TLD business, right, they could become the administrators, right, for such a thing. More than likely, I think they will probably...
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
outsource the thing and right yeah bring it to one of those registrars right who would be more than happy to take that over and manage it and you know having the cost because that's going to be business for them and people register that io domains us developers and startups love the io domain so that's good business right there so and then yeah they can just have a partnership with some sort of registrar and and sort of outsource the whole thing or get into the business themselves but
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
It's too much of an opportunity. There's too much money there to just let that go away. I don't think it's going to go away. And there's precedence for this, right? There's the .su for the Soviet Union, right? Which is still around. The .yu for Yugoslavia, right? These things are still around, right? So there's precedent for this. I don't think it's going to go away, honestly. .es, España.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
Is that at risk? I think that's still around.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
Yeah, yeah. And the British legacy, I guess, gets smaller a little bit.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
Gets smaller and smaller.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
The British Indian Ocean. I know, right? But hey.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
Right. Right, right. Maybe you list out all of the companies that use .io and say, hey. Sign the no more petition. Sign the no more petition.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
Yeah, that's not too far.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
And come to the conference.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
So this is like a big deal, like boosting everything. It's going down, man.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
Man, man. Wow. I don't know. If you throw a scotch in there.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
Smoked scotch. Ooh.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
Would it be a flight, or would you drive?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
Oh, I'd probably fly. I'd probably fly through that nearest thing.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
Hugh Glass. Hugh Glass. Huge ass.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
Thank you. Appreciate that. It's not always easy to be all those things, but you know, that's what makes it rewarding. Right.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
Things like that. Right.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
No matter how hard you have it in life, I've, I've come to learn that, you know, there's always probably somebody who was having it harder than you. Right. So you never know, right. If you cross paths with somebody, maybe a smile, maybe a hello, right. Something could be that one thing that tips them over and, you know, prevents them from, you know, from them tells from tipping over. Right.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
So yeah, it's just a, you know, try to keep it positive whenever you can.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
Right. And then it sounded, it was so funny. And I went ahead and registered it anyway, right? Because I wanted to, on the following show, I wanted to come back. Yeah, you wanted to say, I got it.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think that the two of you nailed it on the head. It was more logistics than anything else, right? I didn't take it personally at all, right? Basically, nobody owed me anything, right? So it was a conversation that we're having Still trying to put together a show. Still trying to figure out how is this going to actually operate.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
And, you know, actually it was Bill Kennedy who reached out and says, hey, this thing might be happening. Would you be interested? And things like that. And he started connecting the dots. And I'm not sure, you know, how you came across, you know, my name, Adam. But to me, that was the genesis of it, right? It was Bill says, hey.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
I think you'd be a good fit here, and let's see if we can make that happen, right? And then conversations went on, and I'm like, oh, this sounds great. And, you know, truth be told, I was very excited about it. You know, I was, I mean, my imposter syndrome was kicking very hard, right? Like, I'm like, oh, what am I going to do?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
And, you know, I started, you know, like, trying to understand what do podcast hosts do? How do they interview? Like, I started studying, like, the process, right? So I wanted to do it as good a job as I could. But then, you know, by the time, you know, things started rolling, right, you know, We had that conversation. I was like, oh, I'm not going to lie. I was bummed.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
But, you know, you delivered the message sort of very kindly. And I understood why. And I'm like, you know what? Hopefully this is not my last opportunity, right? And I think you said so yourself, right? You know, we've got a lot of things in the works. You got a lot of things coming, you know, like let's keep that door open.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
And yeah, and lo and behold, eventually I made it onto the team and the rest is history, right? So I try not to, when I think about it, there's a couple ways I could have handled it. I could have been like, oh, These guys, you know, like I could have been bitter about it, resentful, or I could be like, you know what? Almost got this one. Right. Let me just keep moving forward.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
The indispensable cog (Friends)
And hopefully another opportunity, you know, sort of shows up. But I keep doing my thing. Right. So I can't hand like my sort of contentment. Right. And my joie de vivre. Right. You know, I am a French speaker after all. I can't hand that over to somebody else. Right. Like I am responsible for my own happiness. So I can't be bitter and resentful.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
ANTHOLOGY – Self-hosted, self-confident & self-employed (Friends)
So if a user loads a web page, we want to tie together all the server requests that happened, any errors that happened, any metrics that were collected. And what that allows on the back end You don't just have to look at like three different graphs and sort of line them up in time and try to draw your own conclusions.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
ANTHOLOGY – Self-hosted, self-confident & self-employed (Friends)
You can actually like analyze and slice and dice the data and say, hey, what did this metric look like for people with this operating system versus this metric look like for people with this operating system and actually get into those details. So this kind of idea of.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
ANTHOLOGY – Self-hosted, self-confident & self-employed (Friends)
tying all of the telemetry data together using this concept of a trace ID or basically some key, I think is a big win for developers trying to diagnose and debug real-world systems and something that is, we're kind of charged the path for that for everybody.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
ANTHOLOGY – Self-hosted, self-confident & self-employed (Friends)
Let's see you get there.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
ANTHOLOGY – Self-hosted, self-confident & self-employed (Friends)
Yeah, I mean, I guess again, I'll just keep saying it maybe, but I think it kind of goes back to this debugability experience. When you are digging into an issue, you know, having a sort of a richer data model that's, you know, your logs are structured, they're sort of this hierarchical structure with spans.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
ANTHOLOGY – Self-hosted, self-confident & self-employed (Friends)
And not only is it just the spans that are structured, they're tied to errors, they're tied to other things. So when you have the data model that's kind of interconnected, it opens up all different kinds of analysis that were just kind of either very manual before, kind of guessing that maybe this log happened at the same time as this other thing, or we're just impossible.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
ANTHOLOGY – Self-hosted, self-confident & self-employed (Friends)
We get excited not only about the new kinds of issues that we can detect with that interconnected data model, but also just for every issue that we do detect, how easy it is to get to the bottom of it.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
ANTHOLOGY – Self-hosted, self-confident & self-employed (Friends)
Yeah, one of the things that we're seeing is that in the past, people had separate systems where they had like logs on servers written files. They were maybe sending some metrics to Datadog or something like that or some other system. They were monitoring for errors with some product, maybe with Sentry.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
ANTHOLOGY – Self-hosted, self-confident & self-employed (Friends)
But more and more what we see is people want all of these sources of telemetry logically tied together somehow. And that's really what we're pursuing at Sentry now. We have this concept of a trace ID, which is kind of a key that ties together all of the pieces of data that are associated with the user action.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
Starbucks DVD peddlers (Friends)
These are my people. I'm like, what is happening?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
Starbucks DVD peddlers (Friends)
They do. And people come up and be like, how does she know everyone? I was like, she doesn't know these people. She doesn't know these children.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
Starbucks DVD peddlers (Friends)
She gave them names.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
Starbucks DVD peddlers (Friends)
It's magic. It really is. That's hilarious. Should we talk about tech at some point or are we just a movie, 90s nostalgia?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
Starbucks DVD peddlers (Friends)
It's like Disney. We go East Coast, West Coast, you know?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
Starbucks DVD peddlers (Friends)
Jurassic Park holds up, though.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
Starbucks DVD peddlers (Friends)
Bank stock. I appreciate that. And so it was like, well, you just have to remove the stress. I'm like, I can't do that until my stock drops. Thank you.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
Starbucks DVD peddlers (Friends)
Wait, have you ever burned off your eyebrows?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
Starbucks DVD peddlers (Friends)
Oh, yeah. Seriously? That's amazing.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
Starbucks DVD peddlers (Friends)
So please, please start things so I can sponsor them. I would really appreciate it. Thank you.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
Starbucks DVD peddlers (Friends)
There you go. Yeah.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
Starbucks DVD peddlers (Friends)
I enjoy that you enjoy it. You're like, no, I don't know you.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
Starbucks DVD peddlers (Friends)
I don't know if this guy's going to replace Bill Paxton. Like Bill Paxton had a magic to him.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
Starbucks DVD peddlers (Friends)
He was cool as shit.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
Developer (un)happiness (Friends)
When we first launched the ability to collect tracing data, we were really emphasizing the performance aspect of that, the kind of application performance monitoring aspect, you know, because you have these things that are spans that measure how long something takes.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
Developer (un)happiness (Friends)
And so the natural thing is to try to graph their durations and think about their durations and, you know, warn somebody if the durations are getting too long. But what we've realized is that the performance stuff ends up being just a bunch of gauges to look at. And it's not super actionable.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
Developer (un)happiness (Friends)
Sentry is all about this notion of debug ability and actually making it easier to fix the problem, not just sort of giving you more gauges. A lot of what we're trying to do now is focus a little bit less on the sort of just the performance monitoring side of things and turn tracing into a tool that actually aids the debug ability of problems.