Daniel Dines
Appearances
The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
This is a story that I never told anyone. I've wasted my late 20s, a big part of my 30s and 40s thinking in this way. It's a totally waste of cycles and energy, man. I am a lonely wolf. I find life pretty lonely, man.
The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
Think about you load a website. It's variable until it responds back, where maybe it's a lot of things that you have to build within the technology to make it more reliable. We have the experience with robots, and we are taking this experience to the agents. It's not so difficult to build an agent as to make it working reliably.
The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
Thousands of times, you go there, you call it as part of an enterprise workflow, and it has to work. Otherwise, enterprises are not going to deliver them in an autonomous fashion in production. One story that I keep hearing from our customers is they prefer our workflows to fail than to be too smart because their risk appetite for this type of workloads, it's low.
The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
This is the mentality of our customers. That will be the same mentality with delivering agents. Agents will make recommendations. Agents are not going to take actions directly. There will be a progression from agents making recommendations, going to a human user for validating, and then calling an action.
The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
Not because we are scared, because they are like idiot savants. Sometimes they can be extremely smart, sometimes they can be extremely dumb. You have no idea right now how to distinguish between these two scenarios.
The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
they make mistakes they make errors they make errors of judgment this is this is why most enterprises will create a lot of rule-based workflows and a lot of precision type of enterprise workflows they would not let people every time to decide who should i call should i call daniel or should i call harry for this job no it's based on rules
The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
As long as it's going to take for the nice self-driving cars that we have today to be fully autonomous and to drive, you know, sides with people on the streets and they will just work.
The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
In the same time, we will reduce actually a lot the human input. We are going to a place where we'll have a semi-autonomous agent that will do most of the job. And humans will just sit, monitor their inboxes. They will get task slides. Please validate this. Please validate this. Answer this. I need this information.
The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
And then feedback to the agents and to an enterprise workflow that will be orchestrating the work. And the enterprise workflow will be rule-based.
The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
But the orchestration is rule-based. This is how work is done today. You'll have a lot of rule-based workflows that will connect different people to do their job.
The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
Yes, but we also will integrate with agents built with other platforms. We call a lot of APIs from different platforms, right? An agent to me within the Salesforce platform will be just an API. I will just call an API, I will get an answer back, and I will feed it to a human user, say, what do you think about that answer?
The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
And then based on human response, I will call another action maybe in another, or call another agent in another enterprise. Because we will be the orchestration on the top. And there is also, it makes a lot of sense to have an orchestration technology that is agnostic. We call it the Switzerland of the platform.
The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
Because an orchestration engine should provide equally good access to different platforms. What's the interest of Salesforce to provide amazing connections to SAP and vice versa? No, it's not. So they will focus on building agents that work specifically for workloads that stay within their platforms.
The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
But it's not about what he wants. It's about what customers will actually do. And why would they not do that? Because I will give you a real quote from one of our largest healthcare customer in the United States. I was talking to the CIO and he said, I will never put data from Epic into Salesforce in order to create an agent. Never. There is no chance to do this. It's as simple as this.
The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
They will prefer to use us to have connectors, feed agents only with the data they really need to make a decision, and then have the orchestration in an agnostic way.
The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
Yes. And also agents that will be on our platform for tasks that require connecting to multiple platforms. Most of RPA tasks today don't work with one single platform. They work across platforms. There are so many tasks that you will create agents for that require data from two or more systems simultaneously in order to make a decision.
The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
Instead of going to see what kind of roles do you have in your company? Like you have a BDR person and so on. We go and ask, what kind of processes do you run today? How does your procure-to-pay process look like? What are the rule-based parts? What are the parts that are non-deterministic that are good use cases for agents? And let's go and deliver those.
The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
It's the same approach that we did with RPA. That can lead to immediate successes because you actually look to smaller tasks. In a healthcare system, you are doing something more like processing denials or prior authorization. We'll focus on these types of tasks and we'll create agents specifically for
The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
this and we will connect them with the robots that do the the rule-based task in the in this orchestration layer what do you think is the biggest misnomer that people have about the non-rule-based agent layer that they think but they're wrong about the biggest misnomer is that agents will be good at doing rule-based tasks which they are not for sure
The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
So let's say your success rate is 0.99, right? At every step. If you'll do 100 steps and you multiply 0.99, you will get to a very small number.
The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
that means that the error rate is huge for every step that you you are taking in the process so they are not good at this and llms will yield a different result every time you ask them even the same questions because they in a way they work like our mind works i'm blunt
The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
Because it's early. The agentic, it's really early. And we have to deliver on the roadmap that we have. We have the orchestration engine, but we need to deliver the agentic orchestration workflows. We have to deliver the agent builder. By the way, we have just launched it in private preview. It's the early innings of a huge movement to adopt agents.
The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
Gen AI was not so successful in enterprise so far. I think within next year, we are going to see a lot more use cases, particularly in the agentic AI space.
The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
Because we will put it in the context of an agentic workflow and we will surround it with rules. And we will limit the non-predictable aspect and we will put humans in the loop to validate the outcome. It's not going to be like a chatbot. It's going to be the conductor will be this enterprise workflow that can be triggered by an external factor.
The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
Maybe a client will send you an email, you know, asking for a mortgage application. And then you will trigger an enterprise workflow that will call an agent that will process the application, will make a recommendation, is going to create a
The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
task that will come in my inbox i will validate i can reply from my inbox i'm okay or not or anything that will trigger back the enterprise workflow that will resume and we'll go and we'll call a robot that will grant the mortgage and will do necessary changes in the banking system This is a very different way of working compared to a chatbot.
The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
I think we are... Do enterprises get it? I was never a seller myself, and I'm not into selling. I'm into actually learning from customers and also educating them on how we see the world.
The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
I would say that you need to think end-to-end process versus thinking piecemeal task by task. We are a company thinking, let's go bottom-up. Let's identify a few tasks that are rule-based. Let's put them in production, get quick return on investment, and then move on. But many customers feel you have to have the end-to-end picture of the process.
The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
And I think for Argentic, it will be truly important because I don't believe in... so much in isolated agents that, you know, business user will chat with rather than this enterprise workflows that will connect agents.
The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
People will become more productive. Roles will be changed more from doing things to more overseeing technology, doing things, validating what technology is creating for you.
The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
No, I don't think so. These validations will be actually mostly on the difficult cases in the longer term. So you asked me when agents will become like fully autonomous. I think there will be a progression to become comfortable with the output of an agent.
The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
I'm not sure about it. The catch here is that building agents require some interesting skills. Today, we are at the point where we know technology works, but in order to make it working, you require very high skilled people in some particular areas. Building an agent requires creating a prompt. Building a good prompt, it's actually more difficult than building a script.
The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
A script is more predictable. You have the requirements. You just follow the requirements using logic, algorithm logic. With the prompt, things are not like this. Because slight changes in the prompt can make it working like you want or not. We put a lot of work right now into helping our automation developers building better prompts, suggesting them prompts, helping them build evaluation sets.
The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
It's much easier to test a script that works as intended than a prompt, because the input data can make such a huge difference, and it's very hard to test it.
The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
Jobs are changing over time. We are seeing in agriculture, if you think about 100 years ago, 50% of UK or US population worked in agriculture. Nowadays, it's only 2%. They are mostly people that supervise machines doing their work. Yes, many of the jobs today will change, but they will be new jobs. Society evolves. You don't want to be stuck in the existing society.
The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
This thing will create abundance. The only way to keep with the economical growth is to increase productivity. It's with population aging and actually on the verge of starting to reduce, like in many first world countries, it's only increasing the productivity. This tool is essential to increase productivity.
The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
Why we are focusing on the doom day scenario when actually we live in one of the best world possible when it's the rate of unemployment is the lowest in, I don't know, ever maybe.
The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
You underestimate the inertia of corporations, honestly. Even with RPA, our RPA technology, it's pretty good. And it's not fully penetrated. Not at all. It's all about inertia.
The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
I would say it's probably less than 10%, 20% penetrated. But the rest is, it's not an easy technology to deploy. You need to put an entire program behind RPA. It's kind of the same with the Gen TKI. It's not that suddenly you'll have an agent that sits next to you and you show, you do this and this, and then you just go and they will run the job. No, it's not.
The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
It's going to take next five, 10 years with the current state-of-the-art LLMs. It's going to take next five to 10 years to get to very wide scale deployment of agentic plus automation. If LLMs, of course, will go to AGI.
The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
I have, yeah. Look, my definition of AGI, it's a bit different than their definition of AGI. So AGI for enterprises would be when I have an LLM that has the capabilities of a guy with an average IQ like 120 points, but predictably. Not 180 in some fancy math jobs and 60 into other type of jobs. Predictably. This is AGI. When we will get there, the jobs landscape will change completely.
The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
And it's not about RPA or automation. I think it's a lot. Every industry will be subject for a big change. I also believe that we need a new giant leap in order to get there. I don't believe that actual LLMs reason in the sense that I expect a guy with 120 IQ reason. It's a stochastic engine in the end. There is a big argument. Is the intelligence purely stochastic or it's something else?
The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
I believe there is something else. Why? I am stupid compared to LLMs in many tasks, but I am much better than LLMs in so many others. Why LLMs make logical mistakes that I cannot do, while can solve some problems like math, Olympia problems that I don't have any chance to do? Why? This question has to be answered. It shows me that actually the essence is different.
The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
It's a different type of intelligence. But that intelligence is not equipped to work in the context of business operations where you need reliability.
The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
It's very small to invest $9 trillion to create $9 trillion a year. I think it would be an easy investment if there is a predictable outcome. But do you really think that just adding GPUs and with the existing algorithm to train, they will suddenly become godlike intelligent? I don't understand. There are many signals that the training kind of plateaued.
The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
What is the signal that the training plateaued? I heard even Sundar saying recently that they are not seeing much more gains by training alone. So there should be something else.
The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
My biggest challenge is transforming the company to be an AI-first company, re-energizing our people.
The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
yes we we had the rocky ride into the public markets and probably in 2021 we were to what extent was that avoidable versus unavoidable i think if i do a second ipo i would be better equipped what would you do differently if you did a second ipo i would look into into finance and go to market a bit differently what does that mean sorry go into finance and go to market differently
The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
You can plan maybe a bit less aggressively, but more consistently. I think it's better to plan and execute a growth of 30% year over year rather than 80%, 60%, 30%, 20%, 10%. Because in a way, doing such a huge aggressive growth makes you maybe sometimes steal from the future. Not knowingly, but you discover in time. An organic growth in a public market, it's better rewarded.
The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
There are stages where founders mode work better. When I hired Rob, he's actually a great guy. But when I hired him, I didn't realize that we were still at the stage where founder mode is essential. I thought we are at the stage where we are more established and we need an experience that is stage appropriated for something bigger than us.
The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
Yeah, but Larry and Senge didn't get back to the CEO job. No, but they've come back. Actually, I never left the company. I ran product and engineering directly while Rob was co-CEO and CEO. I almost think that's harder with respect to you.
The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
In many ways, it's hard. It's hard. I know it's a bit of a dance. Maybe I didn't speak enough to him. He didn't speak enough to me. And it could have been probably better. I agree. It's in a time when there is such a huge change in technology.
The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
Look, my way is to speak really transparent to the teams. This is where we are, guys. It's a lot of work ahead of us. We made these mistakes. We have to fix these things. It's not easy. It's going to require a serious, serious work. And maybe that's not a way to energize them, but it's a way to make them hurt.
The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
Well, I invited you basically for this podcast, so thank you for having me.
The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
I think one of the things that, as you grow bigger, is that people feel smaller and smaller. I don't want, this is hard. I want to work in a company where people have joy. People feel that they are empowered to do things.
The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
not in the alignment but it's very important that if you want to make a big change go and drive a big change and have the voice to fight for it if you are shut down then it affects the moral more than the stock price i think how do you actually do that though you say hey go take big bets i support you Yeah, we are trying to reduce bureaucracy.
The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
We are trying to empower the regions to have more in their control. We are trying to get closer to the customer. This is how we build a lot of shit inside. Taking cues from the customer up to the product.
The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
People put too much importance on being disciplined, having regular one-to-ones. It just gives you the impression that you do work without actually doing work. I believe more in understanding my priorities on a dynamic basis and do what is required to do. I don't believe in one-to-ones. I don't believe in one-to-ones with my directs. We have to call each other.
The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
If you cannot call me, if we don't have an honest, candid discussion, it's not going to work in a one-to-one.
The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
I think that's a great model to have as many as you can handle. I think I have around 12.
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20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
I have two ways of working with people. One, it's very direct and sometimes might be constructed as rude and tough. And one which is indirect when I avoid to really tell them what's wrong. Because I don't want to necessarily take the bull from the horse. But actually, what I'm telling people that I work with in a very direct style, that's a sign of appreciation.
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20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
The moment you see that I'm, you know, working around and I'm finding my words, that's not really a good sign. Have you changed a lot as a leader? Man, in the essence, no. In understanding better what does it mean to run a company, of course. But in the essence, I have not changed since I was 17. And who am I? And really, my essence, I have not changed.
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20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
I would have led this company as a 17 years old without the experience to run it, but in the same way as a person.
The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
I hired for experience. I should have never done compromise on chemistry for experience.
The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
We should have landed into agentic six months earlier. Yes, that's for sure. Do you feel like you're behind? No, we are not behind. It's very early. It's very early, but we could have been even faster.
The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
No, we are not hiring as well. We have repurposed a lot of engineers from products that we de-emphasize into agenda.
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20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
Yeah, actually, I was thinking a lot lately, what's our story within the AI narrative, where we can really bring a lot of value. So over the last two years, we've spent a lot of time really trying to fine tune LLMs, build around them, and to a certain degree of success. But I've got really inspired by stories like Cursor AI, and my development team loves that product.
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20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
Look, with all respect to Salesforce, our technology is much harder to build.
The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
So it's in a company like ours where it's really difficult what we are building and it spends many different technologies. We'll get some productivity improvement that I don't think will be gigantic.
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20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
I've wasted my late 20s, a big part of my 30s and 40s thinking in this way. It's a totally waste of cycles and energy, man. I was fortunate in life to understand what does it mean to have it all. It doesn't fucking matter.
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20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
everything that matters is here and it's how we think day by day thinking about a bigger kitchen will take cycles from reading understanding world understanding people understanding ai when you're doing we we live in a pretty amazing world think about with almost zero capital you can build Amazing stuff. Fucking incredible. I know it doesn't really matter.
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20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
There is not a single thing that I possess that it's worth spending cycles wanting it. Not a single one. Do you think this is the best time ever in history to be alive? I'm 100% sure. And it's the best time of my life. I feel way better than in my 20s. How so? You know, from a health perspective, from my mindset, and not wanting things, it's so powerful. Do you feel freer not wanting things? Yes.
The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
You feel free. That's the right word.
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20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
When you have peace and you don't want anything, but not necessarily in a Zen type of mood, but in the sense that I want to do my best, but irrespective of the outcome of my best.
The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
Yeah, but it's going to affect employee morale. You have responsibilities in the world. Stock price is important. Not for my wealth, for how much money I can spend in this life, but it's important for what we can build, for the talent that we can attract. So we are part in a much bigger game.
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20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
I think the best is to enjoy the ride. It starts as very difficult and it's becoming more and more enjoyable with every month that goes on, every year that goes on. I said he could have two weeks off. Not in the first two years.
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20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
Let's try.
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20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
I believe in certain lack of discipline. It's very important in order to stimulate creativity.
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20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
Lack of discipline actually empowers me. That's an essential part of myself. Without that, I would have not created what I did.
The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
The hardest part is to manage the unhappiness of people. Good news don't go to me. They are in their day-by-day jobs. But everything that is not working well goes up to me. So I have to deal. But that's not only being CEO of UiPath. It's being basically running any sort of company. Do you find it lonely? I am a lonely wolf. I find life pretty lonely, man.
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20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
It's a beautiful product built on the top of multiple LLMs, but it just works. I recall actually how we started UiPath. Maybe this is a story that I never told anyone. In the beginning, we were always based on AI, but we were using a library called OpenCV. which, among many other things, provided a really cool feature to find a smaller image within a bigger image.
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20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
So that's not only about this job, but I live mostly in my head, thinking, analyzing, reflecting. This is how I spend my life. So it's not only about being CEO. Even when I was a software engineer at Microsoft, I felt equally lonely.
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20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
Yeah, it's kind of hard, and I feel I am getting more and more disconnected. It's why it's hard. The more we get into our stuff, the more it's difficult into providing bits of information. If someone is asking me, what have you done today? I need two hours to give you context of my job, and then I can tell you what I did today. So I don't have these two hours. So let's talk about TV. It's easier.
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20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
You know, one is, should I have enjoyed life more? I didn't have an enjoyable life, if you measure it by the nowadays standard.
The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
I didn't live like a hedonistic life, and for many reasons. Not necessarily that I didn't want and I have a fantastic ethic about it, but it just happened that I didn't. So I had many years of anxiety. It was hard fighting with myself, fighting, you know, my way. I am wondering how it would have been to try to have fun in my 20s, in my 30s.
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20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
And even today, I still, I can give up on everything I do, and I can just go, you know, for a life of a lot more pleasurable things. But I don't do it. And I feel there is something inside me.
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20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
I don't know. There is something inside me that is, it's a more powerful aspect of myself that tells me, no, this is the right thing to do. And I always did. And it was so hard for me to work in Microsoft, especially the last couple of years. Because I felt I'm doing as a compromise for myself just to be capable of building later what I want to build. But I didn't want to do it.
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20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
I felt so lonely, so depressed, so far away from the world that I like it. But it was a constant fight within myself because I believed that was the right thing. So there is a quest for the right thing.
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20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
I questioned the success most before actually raising any money. I bootstrapped the company for 10 years. Those 10 years were the most difficult. the moment I raised some capital, I got some people's trust in me, something changed in my brain and all the fear disappeared. I just went killing it. It never kind of stopped in a way.
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20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
Maybe the most terrifying moment was like March 2020 with the onset of COVID. when i was thinking maybe the world is gonna stop we will have to basically fire you know almost everyone in the company to survive we were still bleeding money so it was a very hard moment but it it passed really quickly we realized that actually it's how do you deal with moments of intense stress
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20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
Look, I have my own sorts of coping mechanisms. I like to write poetry. This is a thing that makes me forget a bit the source of stress and it dials into a creativity aspect. The stress is painful. You can put this pain into words. Finding the metaphor somehow alleviates for me this type of pain.
The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
Probably Anthropic. I think the upside is bigger.
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20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
And we repurposed that library for the sake of automation. So we can take a screenshot of an application, and if you want to click on a button, we can take an image of that button and then find it during replay, just call, you know, function, find this image of the button, I will get the coordinates and I will click on the button. But that was not the only thing that we did.
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20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
If I have only these three choices. Yeah.
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20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
Very few companies actually get to have a second act. And what I realize, it's actually kind of very hard. Unpack that for me. As a startup, you become successful understanding a space very, very well. Getting into another space for a second act, it's kind of very hard. It's not enough to have capital, to have good developers.
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20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
It requires, in a way, even a high degree of luck to get the second act. And I think very few companies are very successful in getting a second act. I hope that we are getting our second act in the agentic space. It's seriously the biggest opportunity that is in front of us, and it's going to change the company.
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20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
It's absolutely likewise. It's so fun being with you, man. Not only on the podcast.
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20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
We created, I think, a magical experience. So we let someone to record a flow on the screen. Just show, I need to click this button, indicate on the screen the button, and then we will generate like a very simple statement, like click that button with the image. Everything was stored. So you could have record an entire flow based only on working with images, even typing in an edit box.
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20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
So we will capture the edit box image and then like a label and we will find them during runtime. But from the perspective of the user was really simple. So I remember it was like 2013 when I showed this product to some guys that were really Blue Prism experts.
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20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
And in order to do the same thing in Bluebrism, it would have taken like two days, and the outcome would be not as reliable as in our case. I did in front of them this flow, like in three, five minutes, press run, and it worked. And I asked them, what do you think, guys? Total silence. They couldn't believe their eyes.
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20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
And that was our first niche where people would deploy and would prefer us versus Blue Prism. And from that one, we have basically expanded into what we are today.
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20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
Yeah, I personally don't believe that the models can innovate in a material way in a reasonable amount of time. I think they reach maturity in a way. I think I am pleased with what LLMs can deliver, both frontier models, but also something like smaller models. Look, for instance, we are using Gwen, which is a fantastic model built by Alibaba. It's just totally open source.
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20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
We are using it into understanding like a lot of our semi-structured documents. It's a lot of product.
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20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
Because at this point, that's basically the best model for this particular job. We might change it. This is why I think the experience around the product will be so important. Because we do a lot, it's very difficult to use that model without the entire product experience, without helping people tagging documents and retraining the model on the fly.
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20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
So it's an entire experience that we make it extremely simple, and we can exchange the model. If we find another model, maybe LAMA 3.3 is better. And it's always a cost versus speed and versus accuracy equation that we have to consider.
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20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
I don't think models would measure the cloud development. I think there will be multiple models. Even if we look at the human brain development, we have multiple models. We have some general cognitive models, but we have a lot of specialized models that would do some tasks better than using my general model.
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20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
One of the most difficult tasks to replicate today is to take this cup and drink out of it. I am doing, it's just perfect how I do it. But that's a dedicated model that we are training since we are very young. We train how to work. I don't think in how to work, so it's a dedicated model. So obviously there will be a world of few frontier models and a lot of dedicated models.
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20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
And dedicated models will be built on the top of, I think is more likely to be built on the top of open source models, that closed source frontier models.
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20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
It has a big impact. It's a very big shift that we have actually made in the company in the way we've built software. It's not enough to think building incremental. Cursor was built from ground up, really, and in an AI world. It was an AI-first product. This is how we should build. So we are building our agentic AI approach from the ground up.
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20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
We gave up on some of our RPA stuff in order to come on the new technology, new frameworks, building from scratch, because we want to build an AI-first experience.
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20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
Look, we had a workflow engine, for instance, that was like Windows workflow engine. And we have perfected it over the years. But now we have switched to a more modern technology. that workflow engine, and we are building on the top of that. I resisted for so many years, and engineers in new IPath will realize how many discussions we had. Should we bring another workflow engine? Should we not?
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20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
AI finally convinced me that's the right moment where we should bring a new workflow engine that is specifically designed for what we call agentic orchestration. Specifically designed to facilitate very well the connection between agents and human users and other robots or other models, dedicated models and some other APIs, some other entry points.
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20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
Because I think very few people understand what are the use cases where RPA is really used and valuable, and why actually agentic doesn't work for those use cases. I can elaborate. Can we unpack them? So the sweet spot for RPA is to automate tasks that span multiple business systems and are of medium to high complexity. So they can span multiple steps. Usually it can be even 100, 200 of steps.
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20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
But the keys, they are rule-based. The input is structured and then the steps that you go are rule-based. But they, in a way, they capture the company knowledge. within the rules. Even simple things like if the VAT starts with this particular two numbers, then you have to take this particular flow. But you capture it in rules. This is very important. But these automations are very reliable.
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20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
They simply work until the underlying system changes. Now, when it comes to agentic, LLMs are actually not good at following repetitive steps. You are not going to have LLMs multiply to numbers. No, you are going to follow an algorithm and you are going to use creep language or you will program it, right? This is kind of the same with automations.
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20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
LLMs work relatively well when we are dealing with unstructured parts in a business process. It's sometimes the enterprise knowledge, it's difficult to express in rules. You can eventually. It's very difficult. There is a lot of tribal knowledge on the top of the public knowledge that human user is supposed to have.
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20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
So when you cannot express in rules, then you can build an agent that will mimic what the user will do, but with the intent that will reduce the human input on that part of the process. You cannot really eliminate a task using agentic. Because in a way, agentic AI, it's about delivering something autonomously.
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20VC: UiPath's Daniel Dines on Why Agents Do Not Mean RPA is F***** | Why We Have Reached the Upper End of Scaling Laws | The Future of Work in an Agent World and What Everyone Misunderstands About Enterprise AI
Well, this is a great question. Thank you. And I think this is the essence why we have it right at the agentic AI table. The answer, in short, is a rule-based and non-deterministic part actually sit within the context of a business process. It's like a long, long business process like order to cash or procure to pay. You'll have non-deterministic parts and you'll have deterministic parts.
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It makes really sense to have the same technology and put them in the same framework. This is why agentic orchestration is so important. We have the technology that connects all the parts of the process and we have the technology to automate those steps in the process. Think about it as a metaphor. Robots are more like low-skilled employees, while agents are high-skilled employees.
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But you manage them within the same platform. You don't have two different workdays.
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We are the platform that manages low-skilled, and we are adding something to manage also the high-skilled. And another thing that it's not so easy to realize, it's not enough to have a technology that automate a single task.
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You will have to be capable of automating thousands of tasks and manage them, deliver, deploy them, monitor them, get analytics out of them, access control, who can run agents, who can run these particular workflows, what applications they can access. We have this. We built a key differentiator in UiPath platform. It's our ability to orchestrate robots.
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Well, it's not a completely different universe. You know what's the common denominator? Both RPA and agentic imitates people. And when you imitate people doing a process, there are slightly different ways in order to deploy and manage because it's more fragile. You need to have a lot of exception handling into places. You need to have a lot of retries of different things.