Coco Khan
Appearances
Pod Save the UK
Time to nationalise Ticketmaster? “Cigarettes & Alcohol”, the Grenfell Inquiry concludes
Yeah, I mean, one thing that is very, very interesting is when you look at the sheer amount of money to be made from cannabis and medicinal cannabis, and actually how, you know, I think the market is a billion or two billion or something like that. You can imagine a situation where actually there might be quite a lot of economic sense to legalise cannabis.
Pod Save the UK
Time to nationalise Ticketmaster? “Cigarettes & Alcohol”, the Grenfell Inquiry concludes
But no, I mean, it was quite extraordinary. So, you know, for anyone that didn't get swept up in it, it was a bit of a nightmare. There were long digital queue times of up to 10 hours. People telling me they literally couldn't leave their computer all day.
Pod Save the UK
Time to nationalise Ticketmaster? “Cigarettes & Alcohol”, the Grenfell Inquiry concludes
And I just think it would be a brilliant right wing head spinner.
Pod Save the UK
Time to nationalise Ticketmaster? “Cigarettes & Alcohol”, the Grenfell Inquiry concludes
Yeah, it is. So obviously led by Jeremy Corbyn. And it's composed of five independent MPs, which happens to be about the same size as Reform. But it's not, as we're saying, it's not a political party. So... Basically, it needs formal agreement. It's a slight procedural thing. It needs formal agreement from the common speaker to be formalised.
Pod Save the UK
Time to nationalise Ticketmaster? “Cigarettes & Alcohol”, the Grenfell Inquiry concludes
He has received a letter, but has not yet confirmed whether or not they're going to allow that. And the alliance won't receive any short money, which is the funding that opposition parties receive for parliamentary work. But it will... have a sort of official presence in the House. And Jeremy Corbyn has extended an invitation from the Alliance to other MPs.
Pod Save the UK
Time to nationalise Ticketmaster? “Cigarettes & Alcohol”, the Grenfell Inquiry concludes
And obviously there are MPs who also lost the whip from the Labour Party for voting against restoring the two-child benefit cap, including Zahra Sultana and John McDonnell. So there's a question of, you know, maybe this will pick up momentum. They'll get a few more and they could sort of become a official left-wing opposition to Keir Starmer. I wonder how the Greens feel about that.
Pod Save the UK
Time to nationalise Ticketmaster? “Cigarettes & Alcohol”, the Grenfell Inquiry concludes
Yeah, I mean, it's interesting. I mean, you could potentially imagine a situation where the Greens might kind of join in, or at least maybe not officially or formally, but over particular points of legislation, they could come together. But it's worth saying Labour still have a massive majority, right?
Pod Save the UK
Time to nationalise Ticketmaster? “Cigarettes & Alcohol”, the Grenfell Inquiry concludes
And when people got to the front of the queue, some fans were faced with prices of up to sort of 350, 400 pounds, 200 more than the 150 they were originally listed at. Wow.
Pod Save the UK
Time to nationalise Ticketmaster? “Cigarettes & Alcohol”, the Grenfell Inquiry concludes
So in that sense, it's going to be very, very difficult, unless this really picks up speed on a particular policy issue, for them to actually sort of successfully oppose Labour. Yeah.
Pod Save the UK
Time to nationalise Ticketmaster? “Cigarettes & Alcohol”, the Grenfell Inquiry concludes
I think a lot of people are supportive of abolishing the two-child benefit cap. I think a lot of people are supportive of... stopping arms being given to Israel. I think a lot of people are supportive of a ceasefire. And I definitely think a lot of people are supportive of pensioners retaining their winter fuel allowance.
Pod Save the UK
Time to nationalise Ticketmaster? “Cigarettes & Alcohol”, the Grenfell Inquiry concludes
So you can see that actually there would be a lot of public support for an alliance like this on particular issues. At the same time, I think one thing the public does want is for governments to be able to create and implement policy.
Pod Save the UK
Time to nationalise Ticketmaster? “Cigarettes & Alcohol”, the Grenfell Inquiry concludes
So I think what would be really successful is if you had an alliance that represented on these specific issues, but could also work with the government to help move policy in a particular direction or to provide scrutiny. Because as much as we talk about parliament as an amalgamation of opposition parties all fighting with each other and trying to prevent things from happening,
Pod Save the UK
Time to nationalise Ticketmaster? “Cigarettes & Alcohol”, the Grenfell Inquiry concludes
Actually, they can all work together and provide really valuable scrutiny as well. So as we know, relations between Jeremy Corbyn and Keir Starmer are pretty frosty. So I'm not holding out for that. But if the alliance grows, you could imagine a situation where actually they could work together on some things.
Pod Save the UK
Time to nationalise Ticketmaster? “Cigarettes & Alcohol”, the Grenfell Inquiry concludes
From Wondery, Cricket Media and Push Black, Empire City, the untold origin story of the NYPD uncovers the hidden history of one of the largest police forces in the world.
Pod Save the UK
Time to nationalise Ticketmaster? “Cigarettes & Alcohol”, the Grenfell Inquiry concludes
As the debate around policing rages on, Empire City uncovers the truths about where it all began.
Pod Save the UK
Time to nationalise Ticketmaster? “Cigarettes & Alcohol”, the Grenfell Inquiry concludes
Today's report lays bare the decades of folio that led not just to the Grenfell Tower, but thousands more buildings across the UK being clad in material, which experts have compared to solid petrol. And the report comes just a week after a block of flats in Dagenham, East London, was gutted by a fire, while it was reportedly in the process of having its cladding removed.
Pod Save the UK
Time to nationalise Ticketmaster? “Cigarettes & Alcohol”, the Grenfell Inquiry concludes
Thankfully, there were no casualties that night, but over 80 people were evacuated, their homes and all their possessions gone.
Pod Save the UK
Time to nationalise Ticketmaster? “Cigarettes & Alcohol”, the Grenfell Inquiry concludes
Here's Sir Martin Moore-Bick, Chair of the Grenfell Inquiry, speaking after the release of the final report in this clip from Sky News.
Pod Save the UK
Time to nationalise Ticketmaster? “Cigarettes & Alcohol”, the Grenfell Inquiry concludes
This was a disaster decades in the making. We know that documents emerged from the inquiry from 2002 and 2003 warning the then Labour government that the UK could become a dumping ground for inferior construction products if it didn't adopt new, tougher European fire safety standards. It was reported that the UK then did not adopt them due to pressure from industry lobbyists.
Pod Save the UK
Time to nationalise Ticketmaster? “Cigarettes & Alcohol”, the Grenfell Inquiry concludes
What did the inquiry conclude about this?
Pod Save the UK
Time to nationalise Ticketmaster? “Cigarettes & Alcohol”, the Grenfell Inquiry concludes
I get the first. OK, cool. I do know that much. OK, great. Yeah. She certainly doesn't want any bad blood on this, there you are. Okay, yes, I see what's happening. Lisa Nandy is Culture Secretary, right? So this is very much her domain, you know, and every new Secretary of State wants to stamp their political stamp on these things. Do you think it's going to change anything?
Pod Save the UK
Time to nationalise Ticketmaster? “Cigarettes & Alcohol”, the Grenfell Inquiry concludes
The final report concludes that residents were badly failed by a number of different organisations, so governments, Kensington and Chelsea Council, cladding manufacturers, architects, consultants, the fire brigade, certification bodies. Are there things that the Labour government will have to account for? Are there questions that they will have to respond to when it comes to wrapping up from this?
Pod Save the UK
Time to nationalise Ticketmaster? “Cigarettes & Alcohol”, the Grenfell Inquiry concludes
Or is it mostly something that they can learn from and try and move on from?
Pod Save the UK
Time to nationalise Ticketmaster? “Cigarettes & Alcohol”, the Grenfell Inquiry concludes
She's filling in for Nish this week. Hi, Zoe. Hi, Coco. Thank you so much for having me. And, you know, I've got big shoes to fill. Big shoes. Looking forward to filling them.
Pod Save the UK
Time to nationalise Ticketmaster? “Cigarettes & Alcohol”, the Grenfell Inquiry concludes
Well, they've sort of made a big point about this. So I imagine that they will look into this policy. And, you know, Lisa Nandy, I think she definitely wanted Oasis tickets. I'm not sure if she got them. Lucy Powell also, you know, quite a few of them have made statements about this. So I would imagine it's, you know, it's a free political point for the government, isn't it?
Pod Save the UK
Time to nationalise Ticketmaster? “Cigarettes & Alcohol”, the Grenfell Inquiry concludes
Obviously, after Grenfell occurred, it emerged that there were thousands more tower blocks across the UK covered in combustible cladding. Latest figures from the Department of Housing shows there are 4,630 buildings identified, but remediation work has only begun on about half of those.
Pod Save the UK
Time to nationalise Ticketmaster? “Cigarettes & Alcohol”, the Grenfell Inquiry concludes
While campaigners at End Our Cladding scandal say three million people could be living in unsaleable and uninsurable flats worldwide, What's next for them? Does this inquiry put more pressure on their plight or is there any sense that the government will better advocate for those people? What can we learn from this?
Pod Save the UK
Time to nationalise Ticketmaster? “Cigarettes & Alcohol”, the Grenfell Inquiry concludes
If they manage to do this, it's something that they can talk about. And yeah, if they can say they made ticket prices more accessible for people, then... then everything's fixed.
Pod Save the UK
Time to nationalise Ticketmaster? “Cigarettes & Alcohol”, the Grenfell Inquiry concludes
Yes, so 65% of people polled viewed her in an unfavourable light, while only 16% saw her favourably. The second best known candidate, obviously James Cleverley, known by just over half of those polled.
Pod Save the UK
Time to nationalise Ticketmaster? “Cigarettes & Alcohol”, the Grenfell Inquiry concludes
And then obviously we've got Kemi Badenock, Robert Jenrick, Tom Tugendhat, and if anyone remembers this guy, Mel Stride, who used to get trotted out on the morning media round all the time when the rest of the Tories were falling out of love with Rishi Sunak.
Pod Save the UK
Time to nationalise Ticketmaster? “Cigarettes & Alcohol”, the Grenfell Inquiry concludes
Yes. And finally, you know, a bit of polling we can all get on board with. I mean, they are weird and there's been a lot of weird stuff going on in the leadership race. I mean, when you consider the fact that, you know, the Tories basically had electoral wipeout
Pod Save the UK
Time to nationalise Ticketmaster? “Cigarettes & Alcohol”, the Grenfell Inquiry concludes
And rather than really doing some proper kind of navel gazing and thinking about what policies they stand for, it's just more of the same. It's just continuity. They're arguing about the ECHR. They're arguing about identity politics.
Pod Save the UK
Time to nationalise Ticketmaster? “Cigarettes & Alcohol”, the Grenfell Inquiry concludes
Kemi Badenoch is having an argument with Doctor Who, which she launched her leadership campaign with a video where she said she's not afraid of standing up to Doctor Who. Okay, I think I need more information. What do you mean?
Pod Save the UK
Time to nationalise Ticketmaster? “Cigarettes & Alcohol”, the Grenfell Inquiry concludes
So you might remember earlier this year that Kemi Badenoch and David Tennant, who played the Doctor, had a bit of beef because he stood up at an awards event and said he wants Kemi Badenoch to shut up. Right. Because of the way she talks about trans people. Q manufactured outrage.
Pod Save the UK
Time to nationalise Ticketmaster? “Cigarettes & Alcohol”, the Grenfell Inquiry concludes
Kemi Baden was very, very angry about this and she has kicked off her leadership campaign saying she's not afraid to stand up to Doctor Who. Yeah, it's all getting a bit... It's all getting a bit strange.
Pod Save the UK
Time to nationalise Ticketmaster? “Cigarettes & Alcohol”, the Grenfell Inquiry concludes
How come they're not doing that? Well, they don't really have anyone. Because the party was so depleted, you know, there's a lot of... There aren't an awful lot of new Conservative faces. There's not an awful lot of talent there. Everyone's kind of tired. And I think the question, you know, that a lot of these Tory leadership candidates will be asking is...
Pod Save the UK
Time to nationalise Ticketmaster? “Cigarettes & Alcohol”, the Grenfell Inquiry concludes
Are they ever likely to be Prime Minister? Really? I mean, it's quite likely that the Conservatives will be out of power for a decade. And knowing how divided the party is, even if you did become leader, you could be booted out again in two years' time. So, no, there isn't a lot of talent. I think you'd have to be slightly deranged to want to be Tory leader.
Pod Save the UK
Time to nationalise Ticketmaster? “Cigarettes & Alcohol”, the Grenfell Inquiry concludes
One of my favourite, actually, parts of the Conservative leadership... race, is the weird briefings on who's on Ozempic and who isn't on Ozempic. Okay. So you might remember when Robert Jenrick resigned from the government, when he was Rishi Sunak's immigration minister over the Rwanda plan. He was looking a little bit trimmer. He had a new haircut. Okay.
Pod Save the UK
Time to nationalise Ticketmaster? “Cigarettes & Alcohol”, the Grenfell Inquiry concludes
And everyone was like, he wants to be Tory leader. And his team denied it. And they were like, you know, this is really cruel and unkind. Like he's just taking care of himself and he's allowed a new haircut. And Tom Tugendhat made a comment at one of his speeches saying, basically, I'm not on Ozempic, unlike some people.
Pod Save the UK
Time to nationalise Ticketmaster? “Cigarettes & Alcohol”, the Grenfell Inquiry concludes
And then Robert Jenrick had to come out and say, OK, yes, I did take Ozempic, but I didn't enjoy it or something like that.
Pod Save the UK
Time to nationalise Ticketmaster? “Cigarettes & Alcohol”, the Grenfell Inquiry concludes
on a Zempic online and so it's good to see that many of those buyers are conservative MPs that's good to know I think it all started when Boris Johnson wrote his Daily Mail article about taking a Zempic and it not agreeing with him okay and he made it okay for people to come out and say I've had a Zempic as well it's just a very strange twist and turn in the Tory leadership race I think yeah I
Pod Save the UK
Time to nationalise Ticketmaster? “Cigarettes & Alcohol”, the Grenfell Inquiry concludes
I think there's a feeling that taking a Zen pick is in some way cheating. Cheating, right. So I think Jenrick's point might have been like, okay, maybe I did try a Zen pick, but this weight loss is all me. I've got it in me. I can lose weight. I could be Tory leader. I can exercise and work out and, you know, eat healthy. Goodness me.
Pod Save the UK
Time to nationalise Ticketmaster? “Cigarettes & Alcohol”, the Grenfell Inquiry concludes
I think I feel like I'm getting some insights into you here, Zoe. I don't want to admit this, but Paramore was actually the support act when I went to see Taylor Swift's Iris talk. I'm talking about Taylor Swift way too much. I'm not that much of a super fan. But yeah, no, you're right. Starmer's been selling a very kind of cold, sombre gloom to us at the minute.
Pod Save the UK
Time to nationalise Ticketmaster? “Cigarettes & Alcohol”, the Grenfell Inquiry concludes
Yeah, it's a good question. I think possibly. So I've heard, while we're on the topic of Starmer's pets, his children wanted a puppy and Starmer negotiated them down to a cat, which is a very Starmer thing to do, right? I mean, I love cats. I'm not having a go at cats, but they're not the same as a puppy. Not the same. But can you imagine having a puppy in number 10?
Pod Save the UK
Time to nationalise Ticketmaster? “Cigarettes & Alcohol”, the Grenfell Inquiry concludes
I just think it'd be too much stress.
Pod Save the UK
Time to nationalise Ticketmaster? “Cigarettes & Alcohol”, the Grenfell Inquiry concludes
Yeah.
Pod Save the UK
Time to nationalise Ticketmaster? “Cigarettes & Alcohol”, the Grenfell Inquiry concludes
I think the right-wing media goes absolutely feral every time somebody mentions Margaret Thatcher in a way that's like, just like, get over it now. And it also shows you just how much the Conservative Party has just been like, on a downward spiral for so long because they don't have anything except Margaret Thatcher to talk about anymore.
Pod Save the UK
Time to nationalise Ticketmaster? “Cigarettes & Alcohol”, the Grenfell Inquiry concludes
And they all go back to, you know, there's no vision tying the Conservative Party together. What I really think, though, is that if Keir Starmer wants to send the right-wing press his head spinning, he should name his new cat Margaret Thatcher. What? Or Maggie. Just call her Maggie. Wow. Yeah. I don't know what that would do to... I think they'd hate that. And maybe the left would hate it as well.
Pod Save the UK
Time to nationalise Ticketmaster? “Cigarettes & Alcohol”, the Grenfell Inquiry concludes
But I think it would be quite provocative. Margaret Scratcher. Yeah.
Pod Save the UK
Time to nationalise Ticketmaster? “Cigarettes & Alcohol”, the Grenfell Inquiry concludes
Margaret Scratcher. Margaret Scratcher. That's really good.
Pod Save the UK
Time to nationalise Ticketmaster? “Cigarettes & Alcohol”, the Grenfell Inquiry concludes
But yeah, I mean, I think definitely briefed out deliberately, definitely a bit provocative. You know, fair play. I'd pull it down. I'd throw it in the bin. Throw it in the bin? I'd throw it right in the bin. Okay, cool.
Pod Save the UK
Time to nationalise Ticketmaster? “Cigarettes & Alcohol”, the Grenfell Inquiry concludes
What did you do? What did you do, Coco?
Pod Save the UK
Time to nationalise Ticketmaster? “Cigarettes & Alcohol”, the Grenfell Inquiry concludes
Here's the Prime Minister speaking just last week.
Pod Save the UK
Time to nationalise Ticketmaster? “Cigarettes & Alcohol”, the Grenfell Inquiry concludes
I thought that's what the song was about as well.
Pod Save the UK
Time to nationalise Ticketmaster? “Cigarettes & Alcohol”, the Grenfell Inquiry concludes
And I want all of us to know. And you're desecrating the memory of the Baha men. I'm really disappointed. I thought you were going to tell me it actually is about dogs. So come on, Zoe. Well, come on.
Pod Save the UK
Time to nationalise Ticketmaster? “Cigarettes & Alcohol”, the Grenfell Inquiry concludes
Don't forget to follow at Pod Save the UK on Instagram, Twitter and TikTok. And if you want more of us, make sure you subscribe to our YouTube channel.
Pod Save the UK
Time to nationalise Ticketmaster? “Cigarettes & Alcohol”, the Grenfell Inquiry concludes
Thanks to senior producer James Tindale and digital producer Alex Bishop.
Pod Save the UK
Time to nationalise Ticketmaster? “Cigarettes & Alcohol”, the Grenfell Inquiry concludes
And remember to hit subscribe for new shows on Thursdays on Amazon, Spotify or Apple or wherever you get your podcasts.
Pod Save the UK
Time to nationalise Ticketmaster? “Cigarettes & Alcohol”, the Grenfell Inquiry concludes
So for our podcast listeners, it's probably worth setting the scene a bit here. It's almost like the clip has been desaturated. I mean, it's very funeral-esque. He is stood behind a lectern with a label reading, fixing the foundations in white text. The background is completely black. He's wearing a grey tie and a charcoal suit. And even his hair is very, very grey.
Pod Save the UK
Time to nationalise Ticketmaster? “Cigarettes & Alcohol”, the Grenfell Inquiry concludes
So we know that there's going to be an autumn statement coming up, which is going to be incredibly bleak. So I think Starmer is trying to seed the ground for people to be aware that there are probably going to be tax rises and there's probably going to be public spending cuts.
Pod Save the UK
Time to nationalise Ticketmaster? “Cigarettes & Alcohol”, the Grenfell Inquiry concludes
I think he's also, he wants to let the public know that he's taking very, very seriously the doom and gloom picture that has been left by 14 years of conservative austerity, 14 years of conservative rule. He's also asking, in that clip, people to stick with him for a decade. He says it's going to take 10 years for a Labour government to turn around the country's fortunes.
Pod Save the UK
Time to nationalise Ticketmaster? “Cigarettes & Alcohol”, the Grenfell Inquiry concludes
Things won't get better over the night. You know, stick with me. The previous government left things really, really badly. And I think, you know, people have clearly bought the narrative. Quite rightly, I would say, that the Conservatives have done a lot of damage to this country. But... Is doom and gloom the best way to sell that? Because people voted for change. That was Labour's motto.
Pod Save the UK
Time to nationalise Ticketmaster? “Cigarettes & Alcohol”, the Grenfell Inquiry concludes
Wow, that is two powerful words right there. Oh yes, the chills. That is the tongue-in-cheek tweet, obviously, from Zahra Sultana, MP for Coventry South.
Pod Save the UK
Time to nationalise Ticketmaster? “Cigarettes & Alcohol”, the Grenfell Inquiry concludes
That was their tagline. If you're saying it's going to be 10 years till you feel better... I think people are going to feel pretty fed up with that. And I mean, realistically, he actually has five years until he faces voters again. And at some point in those five years, he's going to have to pinpoint things that Labour have been able to achieve.
Pod Save the UK
Time to nationalise Ticketmaster? “Cigarettes & Alcohol”, the Grenfell Inquiry concludes
But, you know, there is a different story that the Labour government could tell, which is actually there's a lot of things to be hopeful about. There's a lot of things to look forward to. We are, you know, pushing through planning reforms. We're doing X, we're doing Y, we're nationalising the railways. We're going to make those with the broader shoulders finally pay their fair share.
Pod Save the UK
Time to nationalise Ticketmaster? “Cigarettes & Alcohol”, the Grenfell Inquiry concludes
He could say it like that rather than, oh, it's just going to be awful. All this is going to do, I think, is make the media go crazy. For the next couple of months until we get the budget. And there's going to be lots of briefing and preview. And then all these ministers are going to be quizzed on, are you going to raise council tax? Are you going to raise capital gains tax?
Pod Save the UK
Time to nationalise Ticketmaster? “Cigarettes & Alcohol”, the Grenfell Inquiry concludes
Are you going to tax pensions? All these difficult questions that they might not actually even know the answer to yet. So I don't know if it was the most politically savvy way of presenting things. I think people know the economic picture is bleak. But I think people want hope.
Pod Save the UK
Time to nationalise Ticketmaster? “Cigarettes & Alcohol”, the Grenfell Inquiry concludes
currently suspended from the Labour Party for voting against the government over the two-child benefit cap, standing up for the thousands of people who took to their computers across the country and missed out on tickets to Oasis over the weekend. Yes. Did you get tickets? No. I'm not really an Oasis person. Is that because you're a Blair person? No. I'm not really a blur person.
Pod Save the UK
Time to nationalise Ticketmaster? “Cigarettes & Alcohol”, the Grenfell Inquiry concludes
And yes, okay, it makes sense to get all your worst policies out, most unpopular policies out of the way at the beginning because you don't have to face the electorate again for five years' time. But, you know, the media isn't going to be kind. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're going to put you in a corner. And there is something to be said about...
Pod Save the UK
Time to nationalise Ticketmaster? “Cigarettes & Alcohol”, the Grenfell Inquiry concludes
thinking about what the electorate wants to hear and thinking about what voters want to hear and trying to make things a bit more hopeful for them.
Pod Save the UK
Time to nationalise Ticketmaster? “Cigarettes & Alcohol”, the Grenfell Inquiry concludes
I think there is a tiny grain of truth to it. Let me explain. I think Lucy Powell is talking in the wider context of the fact that the government have revealed this 22 billion deficit. So if the government was to say there's this huge hole in our budget, it's terrible, it's awful, it's way worse than we thought, and then not announce difficult decisions, you know, like...
Pod Save the UK
Time to nationalise Ticketmaster? “Cigarettes & Alcohol”, the Grenfell Inquiry concludes
spending cuts or tax rises, then you could see that there could be a panicked economic reaction. You know, if you're not filling that budget, we know that the markets tend to panic. So I don't think you can pin it on the winter fuel allowance, but you can see the logic that says, now that all of that's been revealed, we have to act because the markets will be spooked.
Pod Save the UK
Time to nationalise Ticketmaster? “Cigarettes & Alcohol”, the Grenfell Inquiry concludes
But then, of course, mainly there is a political benefit. To evoking trust, because it's a reminder of this narrative they keep telling, which is the Tories have absolutely trashed the economy. It's very similar to what we heard in 2010, you know, when the Conservative government came in and they were saying that Labour had destroyed the economy. It works, actually.
Pod Save the UK
Time to nationalise Ticketmaster? “Cigarettes & Alcohol”, the Grenfell Inquiry concludes
It kept Labour out of power for quite a few years. People believe it. The main problem is I think people do feel like, why do we have to keep paying for the mistakes of incompetent politicians? And that's, again, going back to the original point, that's why Labour have to offer something more, something more hopeful as well. But also, I mean, pensioners, for real.
Pod Save the UK
Time to nationalise Ticketmaster? “Cigarettes & Alcohol”, the Grenfell Inquiry concludes
Absolutely. And I think it's worth saying that I believe the Tories almost certainly would have done this if they'd gotten back into power. But they love pensioners. Pensioners vote and pensioners vote Tory. Really? So Kemi Badenoch in her 2022 leadership bid said that she actually thought it was a good idea to means test the winter fuel allowance.
Pod Save the UK
Time to nationalise Ticketmaster? “Cigarettes & Alcohol”, the Grenfell Inquiry concludes
I'm not really a Britpop person. I'm not really a person. I am a sort of Taylor Swift fan, to be quite honest.
Pod Save the UK
Time to nationalise Ticketmaster? “Cigarettes & Alcohol”, the Grenfell Inquiry concludes
And I've spoken to a couple of Conservatives who've actually said it's quite a smart move. We needed to do it. So I think a lot of this outrage is manufactured from the Tories, I mean, and it's opportunistic because actually I think they were already considering the idea of means testing the winter fuel allowance. As you say, it feels like a Tory policy. I think it probably would have been.
Pod Save the UK
Time to nationalise Ticketmaster? “Cigarettes & Alcohol”, the Grenfell Inquiry concludes
But you're completely right. So while... pensioners have gotten much wealthier, there is also a proportion of pensions who have gotten much poorer. That inequality has increased. The first issue is that there'll be a proportion of pensioners who are not eligible to receive the winter fuel allowance, but they'll really struggle without it.
Pod Save the UK
Time to nationalise Ticketmaster? “Cigarettes & Alcohol”, the Grenfell Inquiry concludes
And then the other issue is that only two thirds of eligible people who are enrolled for pension credit actually claim it. So there's a whole other group who should be getting pension credit, but they don't for whatever reason. So you're completely right. There is a group of pensioners who are going to be at risk
Pod Save the UK
Time to nationalise Ticketmaster? “Cigarettes & Alcohol”, the Grenfell Inquiry concludes
And you're right, people don't vote for a Labour government anymore. with the thought that they're going to start taking people's benefits away. You know, it's one of those things that you tend to think, especially vulnerable groups, as you say, pensioners would be safe. Labour is keeping the triple lock as far as I'm aware.
Pod Save the UK
Time to nationalise Ticketmaster? “Cigarettes & Alcohol”, the Grenfell Inquiry concludes
So there is a suggestion that pensions may go up £400 next year, which I think Labour will probably be hoping to sell as it offsetting this slightly. Now, as you say, prices go up, other benefit, you know, we might see other spending cuts, we actually in practice, it's still going to be a struggle for lots of people, especially if energy prices keep going up, which seems to be the way it's going.
Pod Save the UK
Time to nationalise Ticketmaster? “Cigarettes & Alcohol”, the Grenfell Inquiry concludes
I paid £9 for my smoothie today.
Pod Save the UK
Time to nationalise Ticketmaster? “Cigarettes & Alcohol”, the Grenfell Inquiry concludes
Oh, I don't know. I mean, look, it's really bad timing. I think I can say that, you know, and I don't think this was... Labour, I think, were very annoyed that this was briefed out because, you know, Keir Starmer just stood up and said everything's going to be terrible for a long time. And of course, with all the fallout from the riots, there's a big sort of...
Pod Save the UK
Time to nationalise Ticketmaster? “Cigarettes & Alcohol”, the Grenfell Inquiry concludes
I didn't realise there were quite so many fans, actually. I know a lot of people who applied for Oasis tickets, tried to get Oasis tickets, and I sort of thought, you've never mentioned them before. Like, where's this come from?
Pod Save the UK
Time to nationalise Ticketmaster? “Cigarettes & Alcohol”, the Grenfell Inquiry concludes
caucus of right-wingers already calling him authoritarian. So when people get word that you're going to introduce a very authoritarian and very gloomy policy, it's just not helpful. Everything's rubbish and you cannot have a cheeky ciggy either. No more cigarettes. Yeah, exactly. Do I think it's a bad policy? I'm in two minds.
Pod Save the UK
Time to nationalise Ticketmaster? “Cigarettes & Alcohol”, the Grenfell Inquiry concludes
You know, there is a sort of libertarian part of me that thinks, you know, who cares? But I think when it comes to smoking, and particularly my thing is the NHS, right? The NHS is in such dire straits. And there's only so much that, you know, plugging it with money and trying to like reform bits of it can do. What we really need is a preventative approach to healthcare.
Pod Save the UK
Time to nationalise Ticketmaster? “Cigarettes & Alcohol”, the Grenfell Inquiry concludes
And smoking, you know, it costs the NHS money. so much money. It takes a lot of people's lives. I can completely understand the public health drive to save the NHS by pushing people away from smoking. And with cigarettes, you know, they're highly addictive. A lot of people start smoking socially. I started smoking socially when I was at university.
Pod Save the UK
Time to nationalise Ticketmaster? “Cigarettes & Alcohol”, the Grenfell Inquiry concludes
So if you make it a bit more socially unacceptable, you can see that people would stop
Pod Save the UK
Is Britain’s benefits system broken? w/ Caroline Selman and John Pring
I just want to go back to an earlier point. Sorry, Carolyn. You were talking about the use of AI creating biases. Can you tell me a little bit more about that and also which groups specifically are being impacted?
Pod Save the UK
Is Britain’s benefits system broken? w/ Caroline Selman and John Pring
So just so it's clear to the listeners, what we're talking, we're saying like people with certain ethnicities. What are we saying in terms of bias?
Pod Save the UK
Is Britain’s benefits system broken? w/ Caroline Selman and John Pring
So both of you have, you know, very close insights into the inner workings of DWP. What are some improvements that can be made now? Things that are like low hanging fruit to make this more compassionate as a system?
Pod Save the UK
Is Britain’s benefits system broken? w/ Caroline Selman and John Pring
So more on Tory conference later in the show, but for now, let's turn to benefits. Last week at Labour Party conference, Keir Starmer promised to crack down on benefits fraud, but he also expressed his desire to get more people claiming long-term sickness benefits back into work. Here he is discussing that with the BBC's Nick Robinson.
Pod Save the UK
Is Britain’s benefits system broken? w/ Caroline Selman and John Pring
Boy, there has been a lot of wild stories from the Tories this week. And if you were in Birmingham this weekend yourself, did you pop along to conference?
Pod Save the UK
Is Britain’s benefits system broken? w/ Caroline Selman and John Pring
That's so bleak, by the way, just what you were saying there. If so many people are successful, it's probably unfair, right? In any other situation, if the verdicts were constantly coming back as being incorrect, it would provoke some soul-searching about whether those verdicts were correct and whether there was a problem, but not here. Yeah.
Pod Save the UK
Is Britain’s benefits system broken? w/ Caroline Selman and John Pring
Yeah, for sure. I mean, certainly, there were so many points in our conversation there that took my breath away, made me feel upset, angry, just shocked, you know. And I think one of the things I was really struck by was the scale of the problem. So, you know, Keir Starmer talked about benefit fraud, that's a small percent. But actually, probably the biggest percent is...
Pod Save the UK
Is Britain’s benefits system broken? w/ Caroline Selman and John Pring
everyone being let down by the system do you know what I mean and you know there's no there's no means of getting justice on that aside from going to a tribunal and so many people are just they're just far too ill or simply don't have the resources whether it be money or time to do that yeah
Pod Save the UK
Is Britain’s benefits system broken? w/ Caroline Selman and John Pring
Hey, guess what, Nish? Guess what time it is? Guess what?
Pod Save the UK
Is Britain’s benefits system broken? w/ Caroline Selman and John Pring
WTF o'clock time. Did that work?
Pod Save the UK
Is Britain’s benefits system broken? w/ Caroline Selman and John Pring
So it's worth pulling back and having a look at the benefit system as it exists currently. So benefits are administered through the Department for Work and Pensions. It's an absolutely massive department and it interacts with around 20 million people across the UK.
Pod Save the UK
Is Britain’s benefits system broken? w/ Caroline Selman and John Pring
Okay, so what should we say then?
Pod Save the UK
Is Britain’s benefits system broken? w/ Caroline Selman and John Pring
No, I don't want to.
Pod Save the UK
Is Britain’s benefits system broken? w/ Caroline Selman and John Pring
Fear pressure.
Pod Save the UK
Is Britain’s benefits system broken? w/ Caroline Selman and John Pring
Just one puff. Just one puff. You might like it.
Pod Save the UK
Is Britain’s benefits system broken? w/ Caroline Selman and John Pring
Anyway, WTFuck, there you go, are you happy, is back again.
Pod Save the UK
Is Britain’s benefits system broken? w/ Caroline Selman and John Pring
What even is that? What line of that? There was a time when there was no maternity pay. Women had more babies. There was also polio and other illnesses that we had not yet cured. What is that? I don't even get it.
Pod Save the UK
Is Britain’s benefits system broken? w/ Caroline Selman and John Pring
And of course, it's totally dog whistle because the follow up question to that will be like, well, which cultures? Name them. Which ones? And they won't be drawn on that. But we all know what they're saying. It sounds like muslin, but it's not muslin.
Pod Save the UK
Is Britain’s benefits system broken? w/ Caroline Selman and John Pring
The Islamophobic stuff, that's a horrible thing to say, but I'm quite used to now. The maternity pay one threw me because nobody is in disagreement about maternity pay. Like everyone, even the Conservatives themselves, have said that having maternity pay is good. It's good to get people back into work. It's just out of the blue. Do you know what I mean?
Pod Save the UK
Is Britain’s benefits system broken? w/ Caroline Selman and John Pring
I've been trying to figure out what her statements mean, and I think what she's trying to say is that if companies want to offer maternity pay, that's fine, but the idea that the state mandates it is basically communism. I think that's what she's trying to say, although she's not actually being clear about it. She's done a lot of backtracking today.
Pod Save the UK
Is Britain’s benefits system broken? w/ Caroline Selman and John Pring
I do just want to take a brief moment to mention that she's been doubling down on her claims that she's working class or has certainly been working class. I think she wouldn't say that now. And the evidence she presented as to why she has grown up working class is that she had to take the bus to work and to college. Don't you think that's amazing?
Pod Save the UK
Is Britain’s benefits system broken? w/ Caroline Selman and John Pring
I've seen so many people on the bus. I've seen Tom Hiddleston on the bus.
Pod Save the UK
Is Britain’s benefits system broken? w/ Caroline Selman and John Pring
It's called not having a chauffeur every day, all the time.
Pod Save the UK
Is Britain’s benefits system broken? w/ Caroline Selman and John Pring
In an interview with Trevor Phillips for Sky News, Tory leadership hopeful Robert Jenrick, who has criticised Labour for the Garm drama, we should say, has denied any wrongdoing or hypocrisy in accepting a £75,000 donation from a company with no employees.
Pod Save the UK
Is Britain’s benefits system broken? w/ Caroline Selman and John Pring
My goodness. I mean, it just never ends, does it? Did you hear that James Cleverley has been asking his fellow Conservatives to be more normal? Have you heard that?
Pod Save the UK
Is Britain’s benefits system broken? w/ Caroline Selman and John Pring
I saw that being kind of tweeted by the various political journalists this morning and it really made me laugh. Is that bad?
Pod Save the UK
Is Britain’s benefits system broken? w/ Caroline Selman and John Pring
The aim was to simplify the system, but the rollout of universal credit hasn't been smooth and over a decade on, it's still not complete. It's also resulted in less money for many low-income earners. For example, the IFS found that poor families with children saw losses of 20% of their net income on average between 2010 and 2019 as a direct result of these reforms.
Pod Save the UK
Is Britain’s benefits system broken? w/ Caroline Selman and John Pring
That is weird.
Pod Save the UK
Is Britain’s benefits system broken? w/ Caroline Selman and John Pring
So speaking of weird, in generic speech to Tory party delegates, he tried his hand at some comedy patter in this clip from the Daily Express.
Pod Save the UK
Is Britain’s benefits system broken? w/ Caroline Selman and John Pring
How would you rate it, Nish, as a professional comedian?
Pod Save the UK
Is Britain’s benefits system broken? w/ Caroline Selman and John Pring
Do you think that he's got any room for improvement? What tips could you give him?
Pod Save the UK
Is Britain’s benefits system broken? w/ Caroline Selman and John Pring
I want to know who was laughing and were they paid?
Pod Save the UK
Is Britain’s benefits system broken? w/ Caroline Selman and John Pring
So let's move on to another hopeful, Tom Tugendhat. He's tried to buy some votes with some Tugend branded goodies, Tugend tarts, Tugend tote bags, Tugend tattoos, and even Tugend tan, a bottle of fake tan with the tagline, your conference glow up.
Pod Save the UK
Is Britain’s benefits system broken? w/ Caroline Selman and John Pring
So now on to some tough news for the government, but something that probably won't leave our listeners too upset. Rosie Duffield has quit Labour. Her resignation was certainly something to behold. Here's a choice paragraph.
Pod Save the UK
Is Britain’s benefits system broken? w/ Caroline Selman and John Pring
As Prime Minister, your managerial and technocratic approach and lack of basic politics and political instincts have come crashing down on us as a party after we worked so hard, promised so much and waited a long 14 years to be mandated by the British public to return to power.
Pod Save the UK
Is Britain’s benefits system broken? w/ Caroline Selman and John Pring
I mean, I'll be honest. I did not realise that Rosie Duffield... Was still in the Labour Party.
Pod Save the UK
Is Britain’s benefits system broken? w/ Caroline Selman and John Pring
I knew she was still in the party, but her reputation is eclipsed, I suppose you'd say, by these gender-critical views. And so a part of me always wondered how feasible it would be to have those opinions in the current party. and how long the tensions that have been rising around that issue, I mean, it would come home to roost at some point.
Pod Save the UK
Is Britain’s benefits system broken? w/ Caroline Selman and John Pring
In addition to universal credit, the welfare reforms of 2012 introduced a new payment for disability support called personal independence payments or PIPs. This payment isn't means tested, but it is instead tested against a set of criteria to determine how much someone should receive.
Pod Save the UK
Is Britain’s benefits system broken? w/ Caroline Selman and John Pring
So there was a part of me that wasn't surprised if there was already bad blood and bad feeling. I mean, my only thought is just what will happen to her constituents. What is she going to do? Is she going to be an independent? I doubt she'll join Corbyn's independent alliance.
Pod Save the UK
Is Britain’s benefits system broken? w/ Caroline Selman and John Pring
No, and I don't suppose she'll go to reform.
Pod Save the UK
Is Britain’s benefits system broken? w/ Caroline Selman and John Pring
Are you excited? Well... Finally, the games begin!
Pod Save the UK
Is Britain’s benefits system broken? w/ Caroline Selman and John Pring
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Pod Save the UK
Is Britain’s benefits system broken? w/ Caroline Selman and John Pring
I mean, they haven't spent loads of time in Parliament.
Pod Save the UK
Is Britain’s benefits system broken? w/ Caroline Selman and John Pring
That's a name from the past, isn't it?
Pod Save the UK
Is Britain’s benefits system broken? w/ Caroline Selman and John Pring
Yeah, when you said that, I was like, oh yeah, Rishi Sunak, I remember him. Yeah. And that's it. So thank you for listening to Pod Save the UK. And we want to hear your thoughts. Please email us at psuk at reducelistening.co.uk.
Pod Save the UK
Is Britain’s benefits system broken? w/ Caroline Selman and John Pring
Pod Save the UK is a reduced listening production for Crooked Media.
Pod Save the UK
Is Britain’s benefits system broken? w/ Caroline Selman and John Pring
Our theme music is by Vasilis Fotopoulos.
Pod Save the UK
Is Britain’s benefits system broken? w/ Caroline Selman and John Pring
The executive producers are Anishka Sharma, Dan Jackson and Madeline Herringer with additional support from Ari Schwartz.
Pod Save the UK
Is Britain’s benefits system broken? w/ Caroline Selman and John Pring
But as we'll dig into later, these changes, particularly for people with disabilities or long-term health conditions, have had devastating impacts. Now, let's quickly frame some of the costs here because it's at the heart of the new government's plan to reform the system. Benefits make up about 11% of the government's annual budgetary expenses.
Pod Save the UK
Is Britain’s benefits system broken? w/ Caroline Selman and John Pring
So in the fiscal year 2024 to 2025, the UK will spend £138 billion on welfare, £89 billion on support for disabled people and £35.3 billion on housing benefit. The support for disabled people is something of a fixed cost, but that £138 billion spent on welfare is what the government is trying to reduce.
Pod Save the UK
Is Britain’s benefits system broken? w/ Caroline Selman and John Pring
As we heard last week, the government is proposing further crackdowns on benefits fraud and simultaneously trying to get more people into work.
Pod Save the UK
Is Britain’s benefits system broken? w/ Caroline Selman and John Pring
And I'm Coco Khan. As the government commits to cracking down on welfare fraud, we're looking into our broken benefit system.
Pod Save the UK
Is Britain’s benefits system broken? w/ Caroline Selman and John Pring
Thanks for having us. Thank you for being here. So I just want to kick off with trying to say something positive about benefits. I feel like the conversation we have around it is constantly in the negative. You know, it's always these horrible sweeping statements about people not working hard enough and taking other people's tax money.
Pod Save the UK
Is Britain’s benefits system broken? w/ Caroline Selman and John Pring
But I think that obscures the crucial job that benefits do and for such a large amount of people. You know, I always use myself as an example. You know, I grew up with just my mum, single parent, you know, migrant, didn't have a lot of money. She worked all the hours, but she needed help from the state. And it helped keep us afloat. It was never lots. We still felt poor. We still had to sacrifice.
Pod Save the UK
Is Britain’s benefits system broken? w/ Caroline Selman and John Pring
It was still stressful. But I don't think I'd be sitting here in front of you now having the privilege of interviewing you had we not had that little bit of help. So I guess my very first question is, let's think about the benefits of the system. So John, let's start with you. How important are these benefits to people with disabilities who you tend to represent?
Pod Save the UK
Is Britain’s benefits system broken? w/ Caroline Selman and John Pring
Carolyn, you're fighting for justice for people who had their benefits reduced or taken away. What does that look like for them when those benefits are reduced?
Pod Save the UK
Is Britain’s benefits system broken? w/ Caroline Selman and John Pring
So John obviously you've written a whole book about Department for Work and Pensions it's Is this a new problem with them? Has it just in the last 10 years gotten terrible or has there always been underlying, you know, I think I might go so far as to say prejudices against certain groups and just a general meanness to people who are very vulnerable?
Pod Save the UK
Is Britain’s benefits system broken? w/ Caroline Selman and John Pring
It is a bit of the Barbenheimer about it, isn't it?
Pod Save the UK
Is Britain’s benefits system broken? w/ Caroline Selman and John Pring
One thing I wanted to ask you, because you mentioned the austerity years, and I may have this wrong, but I understand that for a while, and perhaps it still continues today, that these assessments were done by for-profit third-party contractors. Is that still the case? And has that had a role?
Pod Save the UK
Is Britain’s benefits system broken? w/ Caroline Selman and John Pring
I assume, therefore, they're under targets to get those numbers down, even if they're faced with people who are entitled to it.
Pod Save the UK
Is Britain’s benefits system broken? w/ Caroline Selman and John Pring
That would be a sartorial nightmare, isn't it? Like conservative party conference in the afternoon and then Nish Kumar in the evening. How does one dress like that?
Pod Save the UK
Starmer’s Garm Drama + the Government looks right on immigration w/ Zoe Gardner
The rules, the rules, the rules, the rules, the rules, the rules, the rules.