Coco Kahn
Appearances
Pod Save the UK
Trump wins: where the hell do we go from here? w/ Katy Balls + Bell Ribeiro-Addy MP
Right. So not going to be okay then. Hi, this is Podsafe the UK. I'm Coco Kahn.
Pod Save the UK
Trump wins: where the hell do we go from here? w/ Katy Balls + Bell Ribeiro-Addy MP
Do you think that... Let's, for talk's sake, call it a unity cabinet, which I find unity, Kemi Badenoch, not two words that sit well in my head. But do you think that would be able to hold, though? I mean, my impression of Badenoch, and perhaps I'm wrong, is that, you know, she really believes all the things she says.
Pod Save the UK
Trump wins: where the hell do we go from here? w/ Katy Balls + Bell Ribeiro-Addy MP
Does that not mean if Badenoch is a true believer, so to speak, won't that mean that cabinet will just fall apart anyway? Potentially.
Pod Save the UK
Trump wins: where the hell do we go from here? w/ Katy Balls + Bell Ribeiro-Addy MP
Do you think that... You know, we've just started off this conversation talking about the US election. Donald Trump has a close relationship to Nigel Farage. That makes him more of an asset, you could say, to the right side of Commons. Do you think that this could be the worst possible result for the Conservatives or...?
Pod Save the UK
Trump wins: where the hell do we go from here? w/ Katy Balls + Bell Ribeiro-Addy MP
Yeah, I mean, I feel the same way. I'm also worried. I'm still very much in shock. Genuinely, I'm still blown away. Look, what I really hope doesn't happen now is that us as progressives or people who are interested in progressive ideas and really needed more than ever progressive thinking. are divided too much.
Pod Save the UK
Trump wins: where the hell do we go from here? w/ Katy Balls + Bell Ribeiro-Addy MP
Unsurprisingly, this went down like a lead balloon with Commonwealth leaders who in their conference agreement insisted that the time has come for a conversation about reparatory justice. Joining us now is Belle Ribeiro-Addy, the Labour MP for Clapham and Brixton Hill and chair of the all-party parliamentary group for African reparations to discuss what justice might look like.
Pod Save the UK
Trump wins: where the hell do we go from here? w/ Katy Balls + Bell Ribeiro-Addy MP
Belle, welcome to Pod Save the UK.
Pod Save the UK
Trump wins: where the hell do we go from here? w/ Katy Balls + Bell Ribeiro-Addy MP
I hope we don't get the results come in about what groups voted for who and now we're all blaming the Muslims because they didn't get into line or we're all blaming black Americans because they had their reservations about the former prosecutor. I hope we can just have some soul searching as progressives and sort of say we are needed more than ever. What can we do?
Pod Save the UK
Trump wins: where the hell do we go from here? w/ Katy Balls + Bell Ribeiro-Addy MP
It also makes me think, you know, we're all talking about a Labour government for 10 years. And this is a bit of a shock because it kind of reminds you, oh no, I mean, anything could change at the next election even. Absolutely.
Pod Save the UK
Trump wins: where the hell do we go from here? w/ Katy Balls + Bell Ribeiro-Addy MP
How do we push back on the politics of people like Donald Trump? Because it's terrifying. It is really scary. And Yeah, I hope it brings us closer together and we're all more animated and energised after we've obviously recovered from this terrible shock.
Pod Save the UK
Trump wins: where the hell do we go from here? w/ Katy Balls + Bell Ribeiro-Addy MP
Just one foot in front of the other. It's okay. It's just another four years.
Pod Save the UK
Trump wins: where the hell do we go from here? w/ Katy Balls + Bell Ribeiro-Addy MP
And we had an episode with Laura Trevelyan and Clive Lewis, and they were talking about, you know, the case of reparations as well. And there was one insight that really stuck with me where they were talking about what would the money that the UK pays to, let's just say, a Caribbean nation, what would it be used for? Well, probably a substantial amount of it would be for climate security.
Pod Save the UK
Trump wins: where the hell do we go from here? w/ Katy Balls + Bell Ribeiro-Addy MP
You would say that actually a move like this would make the world a safer place, a better place, would not only be moral, but smart.
Pod Save the UK
Trump wins: where the hell do we go from here? w/ Katy Balls + Bell Ribeiro-Addy MP
Yeah, I'm still in shock. I'm still processing. How are you feeling?
Pod Save the UK
Trump wins: where the hell do we go from here? w/ Katy Balls + Bell Ribeiro-Addy MP
You know, what you've outlined there are quite radical changes and I would argue would threaten a lot of positions of power of certain people, certain organisations. And so perhaps that would explain some of the reluctance. But before that, surely saying sorry is free. We could just do that.
Pod Save the UK
Trump wins: where the hell do we go from here? w/ Katy Balls + Bell Ribeiro-Addy MP
But now, on to what admittedly feels like a bit of a small story, I suppose, amidst this big bombshell, we have a new Conservative Party leader. The Tories have embraced Kemi Badenoch, the madness and the meanness of Kemi Badenoch. She's in the hot seat.
Pod Save the UK
Trump wins: where the hell do we go from here? w/ Katy Balls + Bell Ribeiro-Addy MP
I do just want to ask you, though, it must have provoked a bit of soul searching in the Labour Party, though. You know, yet to have a woman leader, you know, not doing so great on issues of race. I mean, I'm just throwing it out there. What do you think?
Pod Save the UK
Trump wins: where the hell do we go from here? w/ Katy Balls + Bell Ribeiro-Addy MP
Interesting. Absolutely. I would just add, sorry, we'll let you go, Bill. But I just, I'm very aware, you know, we're talking to you and you're in Diane Abbott's office. We're just talking.
Pod Save the UK
Trump wins: where the hell do we go from here? w/ Katy Balls + Bell Ribeiro-Addy MP
Right, okay. Exactly.
Pod Save the UK
Trump wins: where the hell do we go from here? w/ Katy Balls + Bell Ribeiro-Addy MP
There will be hell to pay, actually. Look, she's a titan of politics, but she's also the target of so much racist abuse, sexist abuse. And, you know, because we were just talking earlier about like how the conservatives are doing better. You could say better, whatever, quotation marks better around diversity than Labour are.
Pod Save the UK
Trump wins: where the hell do we go from here? w/ Katy Balls + Bell Ribeiro-Addy MP
But one of the things I often think about is like if you're a woman of colour in the Labour Party, you just get pilloried.
Pod Save the UK
Trump wins: where the hell do we go from here? w/ Katy Balls + Bell Ribeiro-Addy MP
in the press they're constantly talking about you as being not competent and then maybe it's no surprise that then the Labour leaders are like well don't put them front and centre they'll get pilloried in the press and it's like a vicious circle of like the public the press and do you know what I mean like in a way I wonder if we all need to take responsibility for our role in the public as well
Pod Save the UK
Trump wins: where the hell do we go from here? w/ Katy Balls + Bell Ribeiro-Addy MP
Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. And then it sort of softly creates this manufactured opinion of our diverse politicians that, you know, they're not good enough. Well, they're not good enough. Whereas the Tories, they don't really get that. Anyway, rant over. No, you're absolutely right. Angry about it. We get it all the time. In journalism, we get it as well.
Pod Save the UK
Trump wins: where the hell do we go from here? w/ Katy Balls + Bell Ribeiro-Addy MP
I keep having this thing where I'm like, what's worse? Because Jenrick... I mean, we'll talk to our next guest about it more deeply. But, you know, Jenrick struck me as being a bit of an opportunist, whereas Kemi is a true believer in her terrible things she says.
Pod Save the UK
Trump wins: where the hell do we go from here? w/ Katy Balls + Bell Ribeiro-Addy MP
If you have a POC byline, you'll just get rinsed. way more than you would if I was just John Smith. I'm just going to become John Smith, right? You heard it here first. I'm changing. I'm changing my work.
Pod Save the UK
Trump wins: where the hell do we go from here? w/ Katy Balls + Bell Ribeiro-Addy MP
Now, this week the government also announced a rise in student fees for next year. It'll be the first rise in eight years and it matches inflation at 3.1%.
Pod Save the UK
Trump wins: where the hell do we go from here? w/ Katy Balls + Bell Ribeiro-Addy MP
The National Union of Students called the move a sticking plaster, however pointed to the increase in maintenance loans provided to students to support their living expenses while in university as something that would have a positive impact on the poorer students struggling with the cost of living.
Pod Save the UK
Trump wins: where the hell do we go from here? w/ Katy Balls + Bell Ribeiro-Addy MP
Now, while this rise is not like the trebling of university fees under David Cameron's coalition government, it's still going to affect thousands of students across the country. And so we're going to be diving into the issues next week. So we'd like to know your thoughts.
Pod Save the UK
Trump wins: where the hell do we go from here? w/ Katy Balls + Bell Ribeiro-Addy MP
Oh, I don't know. Just having a very long bath. One week long bath, shrivel like a prune.
Pod Save the UK
Trump wins: where the hell do we go from here? w/ Katy Balls + Bell Ribeiro-Addy MP
No, no. Also, Elon Musk, he's definitely had a role in all of this, so I just... Wait, I mean, you don't need to...
Pod Save the UK
Trump wins: where the hell do we go from here? w/ Katy Balls + Bell Ribeiro-Addy MP
Oh, really?
Pod Save the UK
Trump wins: where the hell do we go from here? w/ Katy Balls + Bell Ribeiro-Addy MP
You have one already?
Pod Save the UK
Trump wins: where the hell do we go from here? w/ Katy Balls + Bell Ribeiro-Addy MP
Oh, right, okay.
Pod Save the UK
Trump wins: where the hell do we go from here? w/ Katy Balls + Bell Ribeiro-Addy MP
Yeah.
Pod Save the UK
Trump wins: where the hell do we go from here? w/ Katy Balls + Bell Ribeiro-Addy MP
Yeah.
Pod Save the UK
Trump wins: where the hell do we go from here? w/ Katy Balls + Bell Ribeiro-Addy MP
Don't forget to follow at Pod Save the UK on Instagram, TikTok and Twitter. And if you want more of us, make sure you've subscribed to our YouTube channel.
Pod Save the UK
Trump wins: where the hell do we go from here? w/ Katy Balls + Bell Ribeiro-Addy MP
Thanks to senior producer James Tindale and assistant producer Mae Robson.
Pod Save the UK
Trump wins: where the hell do we go from here? w/ Katy Balls + Bell Ribeiro-Addy MP
Thanks to our engineer Ryan McBeath. The head of production is Dan Jackson.
Pod Save the UK
Trump wins: where the hell do we go from here? w/ Katy Balls + Bell Ribeiro-Addy MP
And remember to hit subscribe for new shows on Thursdays on Amazon, Spotify or Apple or wherever you get your podcasts.
Pod Save the UK
Trump wins: where the hell do we go from here? w/ Katy Balls + Bell Ribeiro-Addy MP
I mean, that is quite extraordinary.
Pod Save the UK
Trump wins: where the hell do we go from here? w/ Katy Balls + Bell Ribeiro-Addy MP
Well, in a way, you know, she sort of reveals some of the problems about representation and diversity writ large, probably bigger than we've ever had before. Maybe it's a good thing that we have these conversations about, you know, race and gender. And don't forget class, because Kemi is actually working class, as she told GB News.
Pod Save the UK
Trump wins: where the hell do we go from here? w/ Katy Balls + Bell Ribeiro-Addy MP
And Foreign Secretary David Lammy has ruled out transfers of cash to countries blighted by slavery across the British Empire. So what could reparations look like instead? We're joined by Labour MP Belle Ribeiro-Addy. So as we record, it's a cold, grey and miserable morning, which seems fitting given the context. As we record, the final victory has just been confirmed.
Pod Save the UK
Trump wins: where the hell do we go from here? w/ Katy Balls + Bell Ribeiro-Addy MP
I mean, that's not how class works. You don't become working class because you work a few shifts in McDonald's.
Pod Save the UK
Trump wins: where the hell do we go from here? w/ Katy Balls + Bell Ribeiro-Addy MP
It's just so ridiculous.
Pod Save the UK
Trump wins: where the hell do we go from here? w/ Katy Balls + Bell Ribeiro-Addy MP
I'm actually a cyber criminal. In amongst my other various hats that I wear as a working class McDonald's worker. But anyway... Well, let's find out how weird things are going to get. Here's a taste of Kemi Badenoch's victory speech.
Pod Save the UK
Trump wins: where the hell do we go from here? w/ Katy Balls + Bell Ribeiro-Addy MP
So congratulations for Donald Trump's victory are already rolling in from world leaders.
Pod Save the UK
Trump wins: where the hell do we go from here? w/ Katy Balls + Bell Ribeiro-Addy MP
The Liberal Democrats have been quite outspoken about this. Lib Dem leader Ed Davey called the results a dark, dark day for people around the globe and said that the world's largest economy and most powerful military will be led by a dangerous, destructive demagogue. Do you think this could be a problem with other parties?
Pod Save the UK
Can Starmer’s upbeat note drown out the donation scandal? w/ Zoë Grünewald and Simon Kuper
Do you think there's an issue that because they've already accepted some of them, there might be some political blowback? I wonder if maybe that's why there's a reluctance there.
Pod Save the UK
Can Starmer’s upbeat note drown out the donation scandal? w/ Zoë Grünewald and Simon Kuper
Precisely. Also, sorry, I shouldn't laugh, but when you said it all, he just loves the Labour Party.
Pod Save the UK
Can Starmer’s upbeat note drown out the donation scandal? w/ Zoë Grünewald and Simon Kuper
So quick. Babe, come on.
Pod Save the UK
Can Starmer’s upbeat note drown out the donation scandal? w/ Zoë Grünewald and Simon Kuper
But despite the negative public sentiment, Energy Secretary Ed Miliband has stayed perky. He told a Labour Climate and Environment Forum drinks, it's a bit like Mario Kart government. Things fly at you. You've just got to keep going. And if you think you're going to have an easy day in government, you're not. So nice for him to compare this all to being blue shelled. Yeah.
Pod Save the UK
Can Starmer’s upbeat note drown out the donation scandal? w/ Zoë Grünewald and Simon Kuper
You know, very, very on brand for Ed Miliband.
Pod Save the UK
Can Starmer’s upbeat note drown out the donation scandal? w/ Zoë Grünewald and Simon Kuper
Zoe, thanks so much for joining us. Thank you.
Pod Save the UK
Can Starmer’s upbeat note drown out the donation scandal? w/ Zoë Grünewald and Simon Kuper
Now, there's no denying that Keir Starmer loves a freebie, whether it's Taylor Swift tickets or a corporate box at the Arsenal game. He's accepted more gifts than any other Labour leader since 1997 combined. But there's no such thing as a free lunch. So they say, so what are big business and millionaires hoping to gain from gifts and donations?
Pod Save the UK
Can Starmer’s upbeat note drown out the donation scandal? w/ Zoë Grünewald and Simon Kuper
Someone who's been looking into this is Simon Cooper, Financial Times journalist and author of Good Chaps. How How corrupt politicians broke our law and institutions and what we can do about it. Thanks for joining us, Simon.
Pod Save the UK
Can Starmer’s upbeat note drown out the donation scandal? w/ Zoë Grünewald and Simon Kuper
So, you know, obviously we talked a lot during those last days of the Conservatives about sleaze. What is the distinction between like sleaze and corruption?
Pod Save the UK
Can Starmer’s upbeat note drown out the donation scandal? w/ Zoë Grünewald and Simon Kuper
And I'm Coco Kahn. And this is Podsafe for UK.
Pod Save the UK
Can Starmer’s upbeat note drown out the donation scandal? w/ Zoë Grünewald and Simon Kuper
I mean, Keir Starmer and his ministers have repeatedly said that they're acting according to the rules. I just wonder, can you explain to me what exactly are the rules? Is it just anything goes as long as you declare it?
Pod Save the UK
Can Starmer’s upbeat note drown out the donation scandal? w/ Zoë Grünewald and Simon Kuper
Flood the zone with shit. Is that the phrase?
Pod Save the UK
Can Starmer’s upbeat note drown out the donation scandal? w/ Zoë Grünewald and Simon Kuper
Wow. So it works for media and it also works for our public waterworks. So, you know, get you a policy that can do both. So in your book, you argue that the UK has become more corrupt over the last few decades. I think almost the public are expecting it. So I guess one of the things I'm trying to work out is how corrupt is Britain? You know, marks out of 10.
Pod Save the UK
Can Starmer’s upbeat note drown out the donation scandal? w/ Zoë Grünewald and Simon Kuper
One of the things I wanted to ask, just because, you know, what you've outlined there is big money players. And obviously, you know, we started the show talking about the donations, the gifts given to members of the Labour Party, the ministers, you know, Taylor Swift tickets. Generally, those sums would be considered smaller. But are they comparable in terms of the results?
Pod Save the UK
Can Starmer’s upbeat note drown out the donation scandal? w/ Zoë Grünewald and Simon Kuper
So, you know, we spoke about how in the UK, you can do what you like as long as you declare it, but you never have to declare what that donor has asked for in return. So are we right to assume that of all of these gifts, there would have been something in return?
Pod Save the UK
Can Starmer’s upbeat note drown out the donation scandal? w/ Zoë Grünewald and Simon Kuper
So do you think that, because obviously Starmer's... His opinion rating is quite low. I think there is still a problem where people don't understand what he stands for. I was hearing a conversation about him the other day and people talking about how even with Blair, his line was, he's a modern man for a modern Britain. And almost his youth in adopting technology, that was part of the brand.
Pod Save the UK
Can Starmer’s upbeat note drown out the donation scandal? w/ Zoë Grünewald and Simon Kuper
Thinking about the donors that donate whatever sum it might be or gifts through Lord Ali, how do they know what they're going to get in return?
Pod Save the UK
Can Starmer’s upbeat note drown out the donation scandal? w/ Zoë Grünewald and Simon Kuper
As Labour conference comes to a close, Keir Starmer and Rachel Reeves have declared war on tax dodgers and COVID corruption.
Pod Save the UK
Can Starmer’s upbeat note drown out the donation scandal? w/ Zoë Grünewald and Simon Kuper
And people still don't fully know what the brand Starmer is. Do you think this corrected it a bit?
Pod Save the UK
Can Starmer’s upbeat note drown out the donation scandal? w/ Zoë Grünewald and Simon Kuper
It's a classic. So, I mean, this all sounds very terrible. But after the break, we are going to be discussing how we can try to fix this mess.
Pod Save the UK
Can Starmer’s upbeat note drown out the donation scandal? w/ Zoë Grünewald and Simon Kuper
Very badly behaved, Simon, I'm just saying. An epidemic.
Pod Save the UK
Can Starmer’s upbeat note drown out the donation scandal? w/ Zoë Grünewald and Simon Kuper
You can sort of see how it happens, you know. So ministers, as you've outlined, have always had a bit of a job to say no to donors, but increasingly are more dependent on them because of the collapse of the membership models. So I wondered, my first thought was like, what about rebuilding membership models? Could that also be a way around it?
Pod Save the UK
Can Starmer’s upbeat note drown out the donation scandal? w/ Zoë Grünewald and Simon Kuper
Or making ministers be better at saying no to donors through rules? Or do you think those two could have legs?
Pod Save the UK
Can Starmer’s upbeat note drown out the donation scandal? w/ Zoë Grünewald and Simon Kuper
You know, you were talking about the £2 per citizen would have £130 million, so that would wipe out donors. Would £130 million really be enough? I feel like there's probably, if you added it all up between the two parties, there's probably more money than that, no?
Pod Save the UK
Can Starmer’s upbeat note drown out the donation scandal? w/ Zoë Grünewald and Simon Kuper
So let's have a think about some of those issues then. Starmer had lots to say on migration. He said that net immigration is too high and claimed that taking back control, the old Brexiteer slogan, is actually a Labour argument. So what is he trying to achieve here, Zoe?
Pod Save the UK
Can Starmer’s upbeat note drown out the donation scandal? w/ Zoë Grünewald and Simon Kuper
One of my unpopular theories, maybe it wouldn't be unpopular, but definitely too many rich people, it's corrosive for society.
Pod Save the UK
Can Starmer’s upbeat note drown out the donation scandal? w/ Zoë Grünewald and Simon Kuper
Yeah. It distorts the thinking of people around them. Do you know what I mean?
Pod Save the UK
Can Starmer’s upbeat note drown out the donation scandal? w/ Zoë Grünewald and Simon Kuper
But wait, British MPs do get paid less than... Are the counterparts in other countries true?
Pod Save the UK
Can Starmer’s upbeat note drown out the donation scandal? w/ Zoë Grünewald and Simon Kuper
Yeah, as they should, yeah.
Pod Save the UK
Can Starmer’s upbeat note drown out the donation scandal? w/ Zoë Grünewald and Simon Kuper
I know, I know. I keep thinking about that. Just that very simple policy of assigning £2 per citizen to stop donations. I think it's great. I mean, I'd do it. I'd personally give £2.
Pod Save the UK
Can Starmer’s upbeat note drown out the donation scandal? w/ Zoë Grünewald and Simon Kuper
Well, the main thing for me is I just want to make sure that if I am bought, it's expensive. Like for my own sense of pride, you're not buying me for a Bowdoin dress. Sorry, no.
Pod Save the UK
Can Starmer’s upbeat note drown out the donation scandal? w/ Zoë Grünewald and Simon Kuper
I bet everyone's going to have like lovely things like world peace.
Pod Save the UK
Can Starmer’s upbeat note drown out the donation scandal? w/ Zoë Grünewald and Simon Kuper
Why are we trying to ruin our relationship?
Pod Save the UK
Can Starmer’s upbeat note drown out the donation scandal? w/ Zoë Grünewald and Simon Kuper
Don't forget to follow at Pod Save the UK on Instagram, TikTok and Twitter. And if you want more of us, make sure you've subscribed to our YouTube channel.
Pod Save the UK
Can Starmer’s upbeat note drown out the donation scandal? w/ Zoë Grünewald and Simon Kuper
Thanks to senior producer James Tyndale and assistant producer Mae Robson.
Pod Save the UK
Can Starmer’s upbeat note drown out the donation scandal? w/ Zoë Grünewald and Simon Kuper
Thanks to our engineer Ryan McBeath.
Pod Save the UK
Can Starmer’s upbeat note drown out the donation scandal? w/ Zoë Grünewald and Simon Kuper
And remember to hit subscribe for new shows on Thursdays on Amazon, Spotify, Apple or wherever you get your podcasts.
Pod Save the UK
Can Starmer’s upbeat note drown out the donation scandal? w/ Zoë Grünewald and Simon Kuper
I had this little moment the other day where I was thinking, wow, over the summer, loads of us were scared to leave our houses. And now we're just expected to just forget about it. And it's weird. I think gaslighting is a really hoist word you use there. Yeah, I hear it.
Pod Save the UK
Can Starmer’s upbeat note drown out the donation scandal? w/ Zoë Grünewald and Simon Kuper
From one thing that disgusts you to another. This was my personal... I'm going to be quiet for a little bit. So one of the things that Starmer was keen to emphasise was a... Back down on benefits for all. That was his language, prompting critics within the party to say it was almost like George Osborne speaking again. I have to say this was my area of feeling like absolute disgust.
Pod Save the UK
Can Starmer’s upbeat note drown out the donation scandal? w/ Zoë Grünewald and Simon Kuper
I couldn't believe it. I just can't believe that we're having any conversation around benefits that isn't about the fact that the sums are so paltry that the people who claim them, who many of them are in work and also unwell, are forced to choose between heating and eating, which I think should be what we talk about when we talk about benefits.
Pod Save the UK
Can Starmer’s upbeat note drown out the donation scandal? w/ Zoë Grünewald and Simon Kuper
tiny problem compared to loads of other issues with the benefit sector. So anyway, so what's Starmer's play here, Zoe?
Pod Save the UK
Can Starmer’s upbeat note drown out the donation scandal? w/ Zoë Grünewald and Simon Kuper
I really feel like we need to have a better conversation about benefits in this country. It's getting a little bit, on a personal level, I'm getting angry and I don't like me when I'm angry. So benefits is, of course, an enormously important topic and it does require more time than we have today.
Pod Save the UK
Can Starmer’s upbeat note drown out the donation scandal? w/ Zoë Grünewald and Simon Kuper
So next week, we're going to be looking at how these crackdowns can disproportionately affect minority groups and also just the fairness of the benefit system in general. If you've been affected by benefit sanctions in the past or have some thoughts you want to share, please do email in. I promise you this is a safe space.
Pod Save the UK
Can Starmer’s upbeat note drown out the donation scandal? w/ Zoë Grünewald and Simon Kuper
Well, let's get into it. Here's a clip of the Prime Minister addressing that very Labour Party conference.
Pod Save the UK
Can Starmer’s upbeat note drown out the donation scandal? w/ Zoë Grünewald and Simon Kuper
I can say as a child of a single parent mum who worked all hours of the day, we still needed some help from the benefit system. So this is very much a safe space and I understand how it can be. If you do want to email, the address is psuk at reducelistening.co.uk and don't forget to subscribe if you haven't already. You can catch us in your feeds next Thursday.
Pod Save the UK
Can Starmer’s upbeat note drown out the donation scandal? w/ Zoë Grünewald and Simon Kuper
Right, exactly. I mean, it wouldn't cost anything to just say I understand the depth of feeling on this issue is a great moral question of our time. I'm committed to it. Why do you have to take a swipe at people who are not even in the room anymore? God, what is this?
Pod Save the UK
Can Starmer’s upbeat note drown out the donation scandal? w/ Zoë Grünewald and Simon Kuper
This is a democracy on this show, with our listeners as well. It was a suggestion.
Pod Save the UK
How f***ed are we if Trump wins? + Is Jeremy Corbyn MP forming a new party?
Well, look, I'm a millennial and an ageing, ageing millennial. And, you know, I would say there's a bit of a deficit of democracy for my generation. Like we don't actually have a lot of choices. And part of that is because of the first past the post system. But also it's because no one's having these conversations.
Pod Save the UK
How f***ed are we if Trump wins? + Is Jeremy Corbyn MP forming a new party?
So I'm not going to say whether you should or should not start a political party, but it is... Interesting. So hypothetically speaking, if we did have a new left-wing party, do you think it should be a separate political project or just really to influence the Labour Party, a bit like reform did with the Tories?
Pod Save the UK
How f***ed are we if Trump wins? + Is Jeremy Corbyn MP forming a new party?
obviously there's a that's right in fairness i've never seen you taking cannabis and that's the end of that sentence that's the end of that sentence that's the end of it isn't making stuff up fun so obviously obviously there's plenty of uh you know actual productive suggestions to you know some of the uh the comments that have come in include clean the hospitals now and then uh better health care which is you know certainly one we could agree with as well as maybe actually providing some health care to trans people an actual good suggestion um
Pod Save the UK
How f***ed are we if Trump wins? + Is Jeremy Corbyn MP forming a new party?
And later, with US elections looming, we're joined by co-host of our sister podcast, Pod Save the World's Tommy Vitor, to discuss what it means for US and UK relations.
Pod Save the UK
How f***ed are we if Trump wins? + Is Jeremy Corbyn MP forming a new party?
I sniggered a little bit when you said it's not just me and you having a conversation about economics. I was like, oh, no, that's not a conversation I'm having. I can assure you that's not my conversation.
Pod Save the UK
How f***ed are we if Trump wins? + Is Jeremy Corbyn MP forming a new party?
You're in my kitchen. That's where you are now.
Pod Save the UK
How f***ed are we if Trump wins? + Is Jeremy Corbyn MP forming a new party?
Jeremy Corbyn, thank you so much for joining us on Pod Save the UK.
Pod Save the UK
How f***ed are we if Trump wins? + Is Jeremy Corbyn MP forming a new party?
In a year of way too many elections around the world, this one's been looming large over the lot. That is the American election. So November's US election will reverberate around the globe, really, for years to come.
Pod Save the UK
How f***ed are we if Trump wins? + Is Jeremy Corbyn MP forming a new party?
So joining us now to discuss just how, I believe the official word is fucked, we are if Donald Trump somehow manages to find his way into the White House for the second time is the co-host of our sister podcast, Pod Save the World's Tommy Vito. Hi, Tommy.
Pod Save the UK
How f***ed are we if Trump wins? + Is Jeremy Corbyn MP forming a new party?
How's your energy levels in regards to that? Because it's a bit of a marathon, the U.S. election.
Pod Save the UK
How f***ed are we if Trump wins? + Is Jeremy Corbyn MP forming a new party?
Well, I mean, you know, Keir Starmer keeps talking about continuity and I suppose she's seen as the continuity candidate. I do just want to come back to this quite horrifying picture you painted of Donald Trump becoming president and just really pick your brains about what that means for us in the UK. I mean, lots of Starmer's cabinet have criticised him.
Pod Save the UK
How f***ed are we if Trump wins? + Is Jeremy Corbyn MP forming a new party?
David Lammy, who you know well as well, you know, he's described him as a woman-hating, neo-Nazi-sympathising sociopath. Ed Miliband, current energy secretary, said the idea that we have shared values with a racist, misogynistic, self-confessed groper beggars belief. I mean, do you think this stuff is something that Trump will not forgive us for?
Pod Save the UK
How f***ed are we if Trump wins? + Is Jeremy Corbyn MP forming a new party?
You know, that it will prove a problem and out from the fire and brimstone that occurs, Nigel Farage will rise from the ashes.
Pod Save the UK
How f***ed are we if Trump wins? + Is Jeremy Corbyn MP forming a new party?
But the, you know, the ties between Labour and the Democrats. It's quite well established. It does go beyond door knocking. I understand that Harris's team have for a long time swapped campaign tips with Labour, which I also find mildly amusing because Labour's whole campaign was just, we're not the Tories. I mean, that was the whole thing. I don't know what tips were exchanged.
Pod Save the UK
How f***ed are we if Trump wins? + Is Jeremy Corbyn MP forming a new party?
But if Harris does win, what could a progressive alliance between the US and the UK look like? Like, what can we expect? Sunny uplands, rainbows, bunnies? What is this future that we might finally get?
Pod Save the UK
How f***ed are we if Trump wins? + Is Jeremy Corbyn MP forming a new party?
OK, you need to explain that for us, for us people, please.
Pod Save the UK
How f***ed are we if Trump wins? + Is Jeremy Corbyn MP forming a new party?
Got you.
Pod Save the UK
How f***ed are we if Trump wins? + Is Jeremy Corbyn MP forming a new party?
Hang on, again, again, again. I've missed this completely. So the US as a present sent us two bad teams. Is that what you're saying?
Pod Save the UK
How f***ed are we if Trump wins? + Is Jeremy Corbyn MP forming a new party?
They're not there for the weather. Can I ask you just a question about mood? I mean, one of the things that I was really struck by here in the UK was the Tories were out. And I think there was a sense of relief for that. But there wasn't a sense of joy. You know, certainly I didn't detect it amongst my own peer group.
Pod Save the UK
How f***ed are we if Trump wins? + Is Jeremy Corbyn MP forming a new party?
But even when I was out and about, you know, on election night, admittedly, I drank enough for everyone. So that was fine. But nonetheless... You know, it was very subdued. And I think that was a reflection of the, I would say, the Labour Party not giving a robust offering of hope. What do you think the mood is going to be like for you guys that next day?
Pod Save the UK
How f***ed are we if Trump wins? + Is Jeremy Corbyn MP forming a new party?
Last question before I let you go. So, you know, we've just had our 100 days of Starmer. We don't normally go for the 100 days measure in the UK, but it's really caught on. If we check back with you after 100 days, do you think you'll feel differently? Yeah.
Pod Save the UK
How f***ed are we if Trump wins? + Is Jeremy Corbyn MP forming a new party?
Hi, this is Pod Save the UK. I'm Coco Kahn.
Pod Save the UK
How f***ed are we if Trump wins? + Is Jeremy Corbyn MP forming a new party?
So do you think we'll see more immediate impact on foreign policy than domestic?
Pod Save the UK
How f***ed are we if Trump wins? + Is Jeremy Corbyn MP forming a new party?
Well, exactly. It is important that patients have an opportunity to speak about their experience and more information is good. But I would be surprised if there wasn't already a wealth of patient data out there and there was already stuff that they could be working on to, you know, stop this acute problem that's going to happen in winter because that's what people want.
Pod Save the UK
How f***ed are we if Trump wins? + Is Jeremy Corbyn MP forming a new party?
Now, suitably following our chat with Tommy, we thought it might be time to look at some other international affairs. So the script is telling us to use our posh voices. So here goes. King Charles has spent six days in Australia bringing joy to local tat makers as they manufacture commemorative spoons and tea mugs doomed to live for eternity on the shelves of Aussie charity shops.
Pod Save the UK
How f***ed are we if Trump wins? + Is Jeremy Corbyn MP forming a new party?
So the protester you heard there was actually independent Australian Senator Lydia Thorpe, an indigenous Australian woman and former member of the Australian Greens. She's long been an advocate of Australia becoming a republic and has drawn controversy over her years of service to Parliament.
Pod Save the UK
How f***ed are we if Trump wins? + Is Jeremy Corbyn MP forming a new party?
Thorpe's objection to the voice stated that if Indigenous Australians were to accept the terms, it would have amounted to a treaty, something that none of the many groups of Indigenous Australians have ever consented to, and arguing that it would be, and I quote, "...an easy way to fake progress."
Pod Save the UK
How f***ed are we if Trump wins? + Is Jeremy Corbyn MP forming a new party?
She has instead supported the Pay the Rent campaign, named after a lyric in an iconic Indigenous rights song that encourages Australians to voluntarily pay reparations. So look, her protest directly to King Charles, you heard her there saying, you know, give us our land back, you stole our land.
Pod Save the UK
How f***ed are we if Trump wins? + Is Jeremy Corbyn MP forming a new party?
Caricom, a group of 15 Caribbean governments, are likely to call for reparations that could exceed £200 billion. But Starmer has said reparations were not on his agenda, which is in line with the former Tory government who repeatedly resisted calls for a payout.
Pod Save the UK
How f***ed are we if Trump wins? + Is Jeremy Corbyn MP forming a new party?
Yeah, it's like a fact-finding mission.
Pod Save the UK
How f***ed are we if Trump wins? + Is Jeremy Corbyn MP forming a new party?
I mean, look... Most British people are not aware of the UK's role in colonising Australia. Well, I mean, certainly not aware of the role in, I mean, let's be frank, mass killing. Indigenous Australians killed. I think it's a genocide. It's an absolute genocide, yeah. And we have a collective amnesia about this. You know, so Thorpe mentions in the clip, you know, our children, our babies.
Pod Save the UK
How f***ed are we if Trump wins? + Is Jeremy Corbyn MP forming a new party?
So that's a reference to the Stolen Generation where children of indigenous mothers were taken from their families to live with white Australians. I mean, how grotesque is that? You know, and it's really hard to deny that her protest, you know, it was just incredibly successful. I mean, it put it on the world stage. We're sitting here having a conversation about it now.
Pod Save the UK
How f***ed are we if Trump wins? + Is Jeremy Corbyn MP forming a new party?
So, you know, I'd have to say if we were doing Hero of the Week, I might put her in for it.
Pod Save the UK
How f***ed are we if Trump wins? + Is Jeremy Corbyn MP forming a new party?
Yeah. And it was also not that long ago, which also gives me lots of chills.
Pod Save the UK
How f***ed are we if Trump wins? + Is Jeremy Corbyn MP forming a new party?
Well, I don't think it's unreasonable for us as citizens, as voters, to expect that there was already a robust plan in place. Which actually leads me very nicely to our next guest, who famously produced two very thorough plans that he put to the public before two general elections.
Pod Save the UK
How f***ed are we if Trump wins? + Is Jeremy Corbyn MP forming a new party?
Oh, really?
Pod Save the UK
How f***ed are we if Trump wins? + Is Jeremy Corbyn MP forming a new party?
Some weird form of couple therapy. I've no idea.
Pod Save the UK
How f***ed are we if Trump wins? + Is Jeremy Corbyn MP forming a new party?
Well, I mean, that quote tells you that.
Pod Save the UK
How f***ed are we if Trump wins? + Is Jeremy Corbyn MP forming a new party?
That is, Ugh, all of that, that whole, that all gives me the ick, all of that. It's really horrific.
Pod Save the UK
How f***ed are we if Trump wins? + Is Jeremy Corbyn MP forming a new party?
You don't offer like a sort of, you know, for a higher price, you get a VIP service where it's just you and them, is it? That's not like, you know, like Taylor had some of those experiences.
Pod Save the UK
How f***ed are we if Trump wins? + Is Jeremy Corbyn MP forming a new party?
The Nishkumar Findom experience. Buy a ticket, spend your money and then just get really abused.
Pod Save the UK
How f***ed are we if Trump wins? + Is Jeremy Corbyn MP forming a new party?
And that's it. Thanks for listening to Pod Save the UK. And we want to hear your thoughts. Email us at psuk at reducelistening.co.uk.
Pod Save the UK
How f***ed are we if Trump wins? + Is Jeremy Corbyn MP forming a new party?
Pod Save the UK is a reduced listening production for Crooked Media.
Pod Save the UK
How f***ed are we if Trump wins? + Is Jeremy Corbyn MP forming a new party?
Our theme music is by Vasilis Fotopoulos.
Pod Save the UK
How f***ed are we if Trump wins? + Is Jeremy Corbyn MP forming a new party?
The executive producers are Anishka Sharma, Madeleine Herringer, with additional support from Ari Schwartz. Dan Jackson is also our head of production.
Pod Save the UK
How f***ed are we if Trump wins? + Is Jeremy Corbyn MP forming a new party?
Now, Labour might have won a landslide victory in the general election, but one of the more surprising outcomes was the unlikely gains made by the Greens and a surge in the number of independent candidates. With greater collaboration, could they become a real power in politics?
Pod Save the UK
How f***ed are we if Trump wins? + Is Jeremy Corbyn MP forming a new party?
Oh, actually, I remember us talking about this and I thought to myself, you should have had youth, Jeremy Corbyn. You know, 16 years old, could have been rock and roll.
Pod Save the UK
How f***ed are we if Trump wins? + Is Jeremy Corbyn MP forming a new party?
Yeah, so on Monday, the Health Secretary, Wes Streeting, announced an open public consultation on the future of the NHS. And in the grand tradition, it makes you so patriotic, things got very weird.
Pod Save the UK
How f***ed are we if Trump wins? + Is Jeremy Corbyn MP forming a new party?
So you use the phrase, you know, it's not very well thought out. And I'm glad you said that, because I think it's fair to say that's a concern Nish and I have had. You know, we were talking about West Streeting's public consultation for the NHS. Of course, you know, getting the public involved is wonderful. You know, increasing democracy in our political participation is wonderful. But also...
Pod Save the UK
How f***ed are we if Trump wins? + Is Jeremy Corbyn MP forming a new party?
I thought you had a plan, mate. Keir Starmer stood in front of the public, you know, went on television and said, it's much worse than we thought. Now, we can argue about whether that is the case. It certainly seemed like the press knew it was much worse than they were saying.
Pod Save the UK
How f***ed are we if Trump wins? + Is Jeremy Corbyn MP forming a new party?
But I guess one of the things I wanted to ask you is, how reasonable is it to expect the government to have had a plan before they, you know, on the run up to election that they should have already had these things in place? You went to an election twice. How much of a plan did you have for the first 12 months?
Pod Save the UK
How f***ed are we if Trump wins? + Is Jeremy Corbyn MP forming a new party?
According to The Guardian last month, you spoke at the launch of a new left-wing political party, reportedly named Collective. It was attended by left-wing grandees such as yourself, former Unite head Len McCluskey, filmmaker Ken Loach. Can you tell us anything about this party? What is it?
Pod Save the UK
How f***ed are we if Trump wins? + Is Jeremy Corbyn MP forming a new party?
You don't like grandee.
Pod Save the UK
How f***ed are we if Trump wins? + Is Jeremy Corbyn MP forming a new party?
Okay, fine, fine, fine, fine.
Pod Save the UK
How f***ed are we if Trump wins? + Is Jeremy Corbyn MP forming a new party?
Okay, all right, we'll work on it. We'll work on it. Everything's a process, Jeremy. These are just first attempts, okay?
Pod Save the UK
How f***ed are we if Trump wins? + Is Jeremy Corbyn MP forming a new party?
This is ridiculous. You do this every opportunity you can. Just make some little dig about some false accusation about me and potential recreational drug use. It's just utterly absurd. I would never take recreational cannabis, not least because it makes me sick.
Pod Save the UK
How f***ed are we if Trump wins? + Is Jeremy Corbyn MP forming a new party?
I can tell you're not going to give me an answer on whether it's going to be a party or not. But in the spirit of democracy, I'm going to give you my thoughts.
Pod Save the UK
Just Stop Politics - 2024 Wrapped! w/ Desiree Burch and Liz Bates
And who can forget the return of mandatory national service, which would have required every 18-year-old to spend a year in military service or one weekend a month volunteering.
Pod Save the UK
Just Stop Politics - 2024 Wrapped! w/ Desiree Burch and Liz Bates
But at the same time that Sunak was trying to inspire the younger generation, he was pissing off the older generation by leaving the 80th anniversary of D-Day early to record an ITV interview where he spoke about the things he had to go without as a child.
Pod Save the UK
Just Stop Politics - 2024 Wrapped! w/ Desiree Burch and Liz Bates
Famously, Sky TV. Famously.
Pod Save the UK
Just Stop Politics - 2024 Wrapped! w/ Desiree Burch and Liz Bates
Well, look, I think it's fair to say that many of us on the left have complicated feelings towards Labour under Keir Starmer. But watching their landslide 412 seats come through one by one on election night, I mean, it was quite enjoyable. Let's just take a little moment to just remember that feeling.
Pod Save the UK
Just Stop Politics - 2024 Wrapped! w/ Desiree Burch and Liz Bates
Yeah, I think, like, if you are progressive, whether you were supporting the Greens or independents, there was lots to be happy about. I had a Jaeger bomb for every Tory MP that I really particularly hated losing their seat.
Pod Save the UK
Just Stop Politics - 2024 Wrapped! w/ Desiree Burch and Liz Bates
Well, I tried to. I don't really remember a lot of it.
Pod Save the UK
Just Stop Politics - 2024 Wrapped! w/ Desiree Burch and Liz Bates
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. For sure, for sure. And when the exit poll first came in, I had a Jagerbomb.
Pod Save the UK
Just Stop Politics - 2024 Wrapped! w/ Desiree Burch and Liz Bates
Just to see the Tories decimated.
Pod Save the UK
Just Stop Politics - 2024 Wrapped! w/ Desiree Burch and Liz Bates
Oh, yeah, for sure.
Pod Save the UK
Just Stop Politics - 2024 Wrapped! w/ Desiree Burch and Liz Bates
Fair and square is the right phrase, actually.
Pod Save the UK
Just Stop Politics - 2024 Wrapped! w/ Desiree Burch and Liz Bates
It's a bit like if fun was an Aldi knock-off, like time flies when you're having enjoyment. Time flies when you're having food. That's the UK. Anyway, did you think we'd be sitting here with a new government?
Pod Save the UK
Just Stop Politics - 2024 Wrapped! w/ Desiree Burch and Liz Bates
Last week, Saudi Arabia was named the host of the 2034 World Cup. And it's no coincidence in season two of World Corrupt, Roger Bennett and Tommy Vitor uncover how an oil-rich nation with a grim human rights record bought its way to global influence from wooing soccer stars to Silicon Valley investors.
Pod Save the UK
Just Stop Politics - 2024 Wrapped! w/ Desiree Burch and Liz Bates
And you are forced to wear them. So please choose one, whichever you would like. I'll take this modest one.
Pod Save the UK
Just Stop Politics - 2024 Wrapped! w/ Desiree Burch and Liz Bates
Once the debris from the election parties had been cleared in Keir Starmer and packed all his boxes of Arsenal scarves, free suits and glasses into number 10, what did Labour do next?
Pod Save the UK
Just Stop Politics - 2024 Wrapped! w/ Desiree Burch and Liz Bates
Anyway, things turned out quite badly. In the summer, we had the horrible attack in Southport, followed by devastating riots, spurred on in part by newly elected MP Nigel Farage, who amplified fake news reports that the man involved in the Southport attack was known to British security services.
Pod Save the UK
Just Stop Politics - 2024 Wrapped! w/ Desiree Burch and Liz Bates
Starmer condemned the rioters, but wouldn't explicitly call out their racism, opting for the vaguer phrase, whatever the apparent motivation.
Pod Save the UK
Just Stop Politics - 2024 Wrapped! w/ Desiree Burch and Liz Bates
Then, of course, in October, we got to the first Labour budget in 14 years. Nish is actually wearing a Grinch hat.
Pod Save the UK
Just Stop Politics - 2024 Wrapped! w/ Desiree Burch and Liz Bates
See, now this is going into harassment. This is now going into HR.
Pod Save the UK
Just Stop Politics - 2024 Wrapped! w/ Desiree Burch and Liz Bates
Felt like we hadn't said it for like five minutes. You can see how it happens. You have a sort of ongoing blue joke and then, oh, now it's turned. Now it's turned about the moment. I just feel like, you know, if we're going to chat about the budget, the Grinch hat is very nice.
Pod Save the UK
Just Stop Politics - 2024 Wrapped! w/ Desiree Burch and Liz Bates
Doesn't make you feel good about the sort of control of the budget they held for many years.
Pod Save the UK
Just Stop Politics - 2024 Wrapped! w/ Desiree Burch and Liz Bates
Now, as the day started to get colder and shorter, there was one massive, overwhelming, terrifying news event that seemed to overshadow all others, and it's, of course, the US election. Convicted felon and sexual abuser Donald Trump won the White House again, beating Kamala Harris across all swing states and won the popular vote for the first time. Now the dust has settled, Desiree.
Pod Save the UK
Just Stop Politics - 2024 Wrapped! w/ Desiree Burch and Liz Bates
How are you feeling?
Pod Save the UK
Just Stop Politics - 2024 Wrapped! w/ Desiree Burch and Liz Bates
But there has been a bit of a... sort of re-nosing of Labour strategy. Like, I think they have learnt a lesson from the American election results where they have understood that it's not enough to say that our economy is buoyant. If people don't feel it in their pocket, they will disregard it. Living standards in the UK are very, very low and are getting lower.
Pod Save the UK
Just Stop Politics - 2024 Wrapped! w/ Desiree Burch and Liz Bates
So when, after five months in office, Starmer finally declared that the government had a plan and the plan is change, maybe now is the time we believe it? Or what do you think, Liz?
Pod Save the UK
Just Stop Politics - 2024 Wrapped! w/ Desiree Burch and Liz Bates
And I think as well, I mean, going back to that initial thought of, okay, five months later when he says change, he was saying change all along. Do we finally believe it? Well, that's the crucial word, change. Is it change? Is anything changing or is it just managed better? And do we need managed better?
Pod Save the UK
Just Stop Politics - 2024 Wrapped! w/ Desiree Burch and Liz Bates
Yes. So it's the same. The polls have put Labour behind Reform and the Conservatives, well, some of the polls anyway, despite the new leader, Kemi Badenoch, having nothing to say beyond picking fights with bread, if the latest story is to be believed. Last week, she declared that sandwiches aren't real food. The polls are in the gutter. The tabloids are having a field day.
Pod Save the UK
Just Stop Politics - 2024 Wrapped! w/ Desiree Burch and Liz Bates
This week, the Daily Star rejoiced in the headline, saying that Keir Starmer is the worst prime minister in recent history... according to Brits. Who else would it be according to? According to Brits. So it sounds like, you know, we have these rogue operators on the outside promising change.
Pod Save the UK
Just Stop Politics - 2024 Wrapped! w/ Desiree Burch and Liz Bates
And of course, when you scrutinise it, you know, that's not going to change anything unless making richer and poorer even more stark is the change you're looking for. But the fact remains, the people are not happy with Mr Starmer.
Pod Save the UK
Just Stop Politics - 2024 Wrapped! w/ Desiree Burch and Liz Bates
Do you want to explain this turn of conversation this or shall I?
Pod Save the UK
Just Stop Politics - 2024 Wrapped! w/ Desiree Burch and Liz Bates
To close us off with something a little more silly, it's my favourite bit, the song bit, where politicians, we recap on how the politicians around the country have been using some songs to make their voices heard this year. So, for example, we had Paul Thomas candidate for a reform with his rendition of The Spice Girls.
Pod Save the UK
Just Stop Politics - 2024 Wrapped! w/ Desiree Burch and Liz Bates
So I was like, oh, I'm reading way too much political content.
Pod Save the UK
Just Stop Politics - 2024 Wrapped! w/ Desiree Burch and Liz Bates
And then I had another incident recently where I was listening to Beyonce's Irreplaceable, to the left, to the left. And you know, the chorus is, you must not know what I mean. I could get another you in a minute. And I thought, I was like, this is the song about Keir Starmer. Oh, my God.
Pod Save the UK
Just Stop Politics - 2024 Wrapped! w/ Desiree Burch and Liz Bates
I feel actually that's us as disenfranchised Labour voters. We're singing that to him. We could get another you in a minute. You'll be here in a minute. To the left.
Pod Save the UK
Just Stop Politics - 2024 Wrapped! w/ Desiree Burch and Liz Bates
She does, she does. But anyway, in the spirit of just far too much political content, in his final show of electoral spectacle for the year, Lib Dem leader Sir Ed Davey is vying for Christmas number one. He's performing alongside the Bath Philharmonic Young Carers Choir with their song Love Is Enough.
Pod Save the UK
Just Stop Politics - 2024 Wrapped! w/ Desiree Burch and Liz Bates
I'm proud of myself. I feel like I'm hanging out with people that are a couple of years above me in school because you're all like, Christmas decorations, lame. Let's make porn jokes. And I'm like,
Pod Save the UK
Just Stop Politics - 2024 Wrapped! w/ Desiree Burch and Liz Bates
Don't forget to follow at Pod Save the UK on Instagram, TikTok and Twitter. And if you want more of us, make sure you subscribe to our YouTube channel.
Pod Save the UK
Just Stop Politics - 2024 Wrapped! w/ Desiree Burch and Liz Bates
Nish and I are taking a little holiday break for the next two weeks. Not together, but it would be fun, wouldn't it? We'll be back with you in early January.
Pod Save the UK
Just Stop Politics - 2024 Wrapped! w/ Desiree Burch and Liz Bates
Which is better or worse?
Pod Save the UK
Just Stop Politics - 2024 Wrapped! w/ Desiree Burch and Liz Bates
Thanks to senior producer James Tindow and assistant producers Mae Robson, Nadas Miljanic and Artemis Irvin, with extra research from Adam Wright.
Pod Save the UK
Just Stop Politics - 2024 Wrapped! w/ Desiree Burch and Liz Bates
Thanks to our engineers, Jeet Vasani and Ryan McBeath. The head of production is Dan Jackson.
Pod Save the UK
Just Stop Politics - 2024 Wrapped! w/ Desiree Burch and Liz Bates
And remember to hit subscribe for new shows on Thursdays on Amazon, Spotify or Apple or wherever you get your podcasts. Have a great non-denominational holiday. See you in the new year, guys.
Pod Save the UK
Just Stop Politics - 2024 Wrapped! w/ Desiree Burch and Liz Bates
Back to politics. Desiree, you had two elections this year. Yeah, sadly.
Pod Save the UK
Just Stop Politics - 2024 Wrapped! w/ Desiree Burch and Liz Bates
So let's cast our eyes back to the start of the year. On the 4th of January, Prime Minister Rishi Sunak, then Prime Minister Rishi Sunak, should I say? Enjoyed it. I'm having a great time. He declared that it was his working assumption that the election would happen in the second half of the year. It turned out he did keep his word, but only just.
Pod Save the UK
Just Stop Politics - 2024 Wrapped! w/ Desiree Burch and Liz Bates
And I'm Coco Karn. And today we're looking back on the year that was. Pod Save the UK wrapped, if you will.
Pod Save the UK
Just Stop Politics - 2024 Wrapped! w/ Desiree Burch and Liz Bates
So, Liz, if there was one policy that defined the end of 14 years of Conservative rule, it's got to be this one, right? Rwanda, the Rwanda plan. Callous, incompetent, cost the UK an estimated £700 million. What do you think? Does it summarise the end of the Tories?
Pod Save the UK
Just Stop Politics - 2024 Wrapped! w/ Desiree Burch and Liz Bates
Joining us now to recap this wild year is Sky News' Liz Bates and comedian Desiree Burge.
Pod Save the UK
Just Stop Politics - 2024 Wrapped! w/ Desiree Burch and Liz Bates
I guess you could say time flies when you're having fun, no?
Pod Save the UK
Just Stop Politics - 2024 Wrapped! w/ Desiree Burch and Liz Bates
We should probably just tell the listeners the clip that we just played. Liz Truss comes across as being, I'm just going to say it's slightly inebriated. I'm not saying she is. Maybe that's just her giddy personality.
Pod Save the UK
Just Stop Politics - 2024 Wrapped! w/ Desiree Burch and Liz Bates
Hi. Welcome, welcome. Thank you for having us.
Pod Save the UK
Just Stop Politics - 2024 Wrapped! w/ Desiree Burch and Liz Bates
But she's on camera and she says, oh, look, this is my new book. She holds it up. It's back to front. Then she flips it around, but it's upside down. There's just a little bit of sort of slapstick there.
Pod Save the UK
Just Stop Politics - 2024 Wrapped! w/ Desiree Burch and Liz Bates
We always try to give tangible solutions on this podcast. And even though a lot of the issues that we face today sometimes can feel insurmountable, we do want to give a shout out to the charity Choose Love. Choose Love supports refugees and displaced people globally in the UK, the Middle East, at the Mexico-US border, across Europe, via a network of refugee and community-run organisations.
Pod Save the UK
Just Stop Politics - 2024 Wrapped! w/ Desiree Burch and Liz Bates
They provide everything from nutritious food to warm clothes, safe spaces for women,
Pod Save the UK
Just Stop Politics - 2024 Wrapped! w/ Desiree Burch and Liz Bates
100% of what you give goes to buying that item or something similar. If you're doing any gifting, you can also buy in the name of a loved one and send them over an e-card to let them know what you bought on their behalf.
Pod Save the UK
Just Stop Politics - 2024 Wrapped! w/ Desiree Burch and Liz Bates
Labour, of course, seemed very excited about the announcement, but they also seemed like they were, I believe the official term is shitting themselves. We often talk on this podcast about whether they were truly ready. Their strategy seemed to involve just going to spectacles Spectacular lengths to say nothing at all. You say it best when you say nothing at all.
Pod Save the UK
Just Stop Politics - 2024 Wrapped! w/ Desiree Burch and Liz Bates
How's it? This is like a form of therapy, isn't it? You know, you blacked out parts of it and we're here in a friendly way to remind you. It's like exposure therapy.
Pod Save the UK
Just Stop Politics - 2024 Wrapped! w/ Desiree Burch and Liz Bates
Oh, I'm feeling the pop music references coming. It will not be the last in this episode. So yeah, they said nothing apart from the word change. Should you change? Oh no, stop me. Anyway, the Lib Dems took a different approach to campaigning. Leader Ed Davey took himself to every available campaign podium and the Tories focused on churning out red meat.
Pod Save the UK
How ruthless is Keir Starmer willing to be? w/ Anushka Asthana and Josh Babarinde MP
Just spend money on it. Spend money on the public services. Spend money on integration, you know, assistance programs, like create community. Spend money on it. I just feel like we just always have this, oh, it's so tricky, so tricky. Is it? Just spend money on it.
Pod Save the UK
How ruthless is Keir Starmer willing to be? w/ Anushka Asthana and Josh Babarinde MP
Of course, of course. I think the word you used, myths there, was really good. It was a really good word because... I think as well, you know, I'm saying spend money on it, but that almost in a way, when I say that, it sort of enforces the idea that like, you know, because there's whatever pressures on GPs, it's all because of immigrants. And that's not quite true, is it?
Pod Save the UK
How ruthless is Keir Starmer willing to be? w/ Anushka Asthana and Josh Babarinde MP
I suppose in a way you're sort of hoping, or they're sort of hoping, that as long as people see their world improve, it all will be forgiven. Although when you were talking about, oh, that's what Blair did in 1997, I just kept thinking, yes, babe, but they didn't have Twitter then. Like there wasn't this rolling feed of everyone up to date on what you said then and we remember, you know.
Pod Save the UK
How ruthless is Keir Starmer willing to be? w/ Anushka Asthana and Josh Babarinde MP
Anushka Asthana, thank you so much for joining us on Podsafe UK. Thank you for having me.
Pod Save the UK
How ruthless is Keir Starmer willing to be? w/ Anushka Asthana and Josh Babarinde MP
Wow.
Pod Save the UK
How ruthless is Keir Starmer willing to be? w/ Anushka Asthana and Josh Babarinde MP
Yeah, no, absolutely. Fantastic to bring that insight. Look, I'm just going to ask you directly, Josh, and I hope you'll take this question in the spirit of millennial to millennial. So why the Lib Dems then? Why the Lib Dems?
Pod Save the UK
How ruthless is Keir Starmer willing to be? w/ Anushka Asthana and Josh Babarinde MP
So do you think that this will shape the Lib Dems essentially being in opposition to Labour? Obviously, the official opposition are in total disarray and are all bananas, let's be honest. The Lib Dems have got a sizeable number of MPs. I imagine you're taking it upon yourselves to be the opposition in some way.
Pod Save the UK
How ruthless is Keir Starmer willing to be? w/ Anushka Asthana and Josh Babarinde MP
These are the sort of battle lines we might see, do you think, around things like civil liberties, around the state overstepping personal liberty. Is this an indicator of what we can expect?
Pod Save the UK
How ruthless is Keir Starmer willing to be? w/ Anushka Asthana and Josh Babarinde MP
Brian, can you ask Ed to come on our show, please? That would be great. Let's just talk about getting things done then. Let's talk about your own portfolio, which is justice. You know, look, the prisons are in crisis. We've talked about it on our show. And last month at the Lib Dem conference, you spoke about the presumptions against short sentencing.
Pod Save the UK
How ruthless is Keir Starmer willing to be? w/ Anushka Asthana and Josh Babarinde MP
There's been whispers that the government ministers are considering scrapping short sentences. You know, what are the other reforms that need to be looked at? What's the most urgent thing, do you think?
Pod Save the UK
How ruthless is Keir Starmer willing to be? w/ Anushka Asthana and Josh Babarinde MP
Well, that is a lovely place to leave this. So thank you so much, Josh. Thank you for joining us on Pod Save the UK.
Pod Save the UK
How ruthless is Keir Starmer willing to be? w/ Anushka Asthana and Josh Babarinde MP
It is a criminal offence to make inaccurate claims and if the candidate is found to have breached election laws, they can be evicted from the House of Commons and a by-election called. So the iPaper also quotes another independent candidate in Leicester South that claims that there was an appearance that Suleiman and Adam were working in tandem.
Pod Save the UK
How ruthless is Keir Starmer willing to be? w/ Anushka Asthana and Josh Babarinde MP
There's also allegations that Shoket Adam's team employed heavy-handed tactics whilst campaigning in Leicester. Adam denies that Suleiman was working for him during the election campaign, but confirmed he had done some volunteering earlier in the year. Suleiman also denies any collusion.
Pod Save the UK
How ruthless is Keir Starmer willing to be? w/ Anushka Asthana and Josh Babarinde MP
Yeah, I can't help but feel frustrated by it. And that is saying something because normally wherever the loony party is, it's a good time for me. I mean, I love hearing about them and their crazy ideas.
Pod Save the UK
How ruthless is Keir Starmer willing to be? w/ Anushka Asthana and Josh Babarinde MP
Yeah, and joke policies.
Pod Save the UK
How ruthless is Keir Starmer willing to be? w/ Anushka Asthana and Josh Babarinde MP
Here you go. Here's some current loony party policies. London Marathon is free to anyone wearing clown shoes. There you go. Great, great policy. terrorists will be made to wear bells and horns so we know where they are. You know what I mean? They normally bring me such joy. But sadly, that has been taken from me this week with this story.
Pod Save the UK
How ruthless is Keir Starmer willing to be? w/ Anushka Asthana and Josh Babarinde MP
She's the centre of every storm, babe. Come on, keep up, keep up, Nick.
Pod Save the UK
How ruthless is Keir Starmer willing to be? w/ Anushka Asthana and Josh Babarinde MP
Yeah. He says with a gun to his head.
Pod Save the UK
How ruthless is Keir Starmer willing to be? w/ Anushka Asthana and Josh Babarinde MP
Don't take the tickets. Come on. If you have knowledge that that has happened, it might look bad for you to suddenly have free tickets.
Pod Save the UK
How ruthless is Keir Starmer willing to be? w/ Anushka Asthana and Josh Babarinde MP
Because it would seem like, as a thank you for sorting this out, I'm now going to award you with free tickets, right? That's how it looks. Yeah, yeah, yeah. If the two things are unrelated.
Pod Save the UK
How ruthless is Keir Starmer willing to be? w/ Anushka Asthana and Josh Babarinde MP
Just don't take them.
Pod Save the UK
How ruthless is Keir Starmer willing to be? w/ Anushka Asthana and Josh Babarinde MP
I wonder what would happen if you just, as an experiment for the podcast, just sent a load of Labour MPs tickets to your tour. Just to see. Just to see what would happen. Maybe you should do that. What could possibly go wrong?
Pod Save the UK
How ruthless is Keir Starmer willing to be? w/ Anushka Asthana and Josh Babarinde MP
One week on from the great big reset inside Number 10, suddenly it seems like there's a flurry of activity from the government. It's a nice change from the month of stasis, but with a lifeless opposition and a stonking majority, are we about to see some radical reforms?
Pod Save the UK
How ruthless is Keir Starmer willing to be? w/ Anushka Asthana and Josh Babarinde MP
Ruthless is quite a... I would describe it as a negative word. But do you think... in the political space that actually people might admire it. Maybe even the electorate might admire it. I mean, I remember back, obviously, Jeremy Corbyn was a very different leader, but I remember there was a constant criticism of him that he would be too soft. And that was what people said in the press.
Pod Save the UK
How ruthless is Keir Starmer willing to be? w/ Anushka Asthana and Josh Babarinde MP
Thanks for listening to Pod Save the UK and we want to hear your thoughts. Email us at psuk at reducedlistening.co.uk
Pod Save the UK
How ruthless is Keir Starmer willing to be? w/ Anushka Asthana and Josh Babarinde MP
Pod Save the UK is a reduced listening production for Crooked Media.
Pod Save the UK
How ruthless is Keir Starmer willing to be? w/ Anushka Asthana and Josh Babarinde MP
Our theme music is by Vasilis Fotopoulos.
Pod Save the UK
How ruthless is Keir Starmer willing to be? w/ Anushka Asthana and Josh Babarinde MP
The executive producers are Anushka Sharma and Madeleine Herringer, with additional support from Ari Schwartz.
Pod Save the UK
How ruthless is Keir Starmer willing to be? w/ Anushka Asthana and Josh Babarinde MP
He was too soft, too, you know, wet.
Pod Save the UK
How ruthless is Keir Starmer willing to be? w/ Anushka Asthana and Josh Babarinde MP
But he said, basically, sometimes... Sorry, that was just a tangent about our ongoing arguments about swearing on this show.
Pod Save the UK
How ruthless is Keir Starmer willing to be? w/ Anushka Asthana and Josh Babarinde MP
And I'm Coco Kahn. With just two weeks to go until the autumn budget, Labour is preparing to make some huge reforms. But how ruthless is Keir Starmer willing to be in reshaping the UK? We're speaking to ITV's political editor, Anushka Astana, to find out.
Pod Save the UK
How ruthless is Keir Starmer willing to be? w/ Anushka Asthana and Josh Babarinde MP
With the electorate, do you think that's different though? Do they value ruthlessness? Do they perceive it as a show of strength or actually they want their leaders to be compassionate?
Pod Save the UK
How ruthless is Keir Starmer willing to be? w/ Anushka Asthana and Josh Babarinde MP
Right. OK.
Pod Save the UK
Inside out: How to fix the UK’s prison system + Labour embraces unpopularity
This is at least an evolution of last week's things are going to get worse mantra, but it is a strange tone for the government to set. As all week long, front pages of websites and newspapers have been cluttered with headlines decrying the government's stance on winter fuel payments for pensioners.
Pod Save the UK
Inside out: How to fix the UK’s prison system + Labour embraces unpopularity
I think that's sort of what we really want to get to the heart of in this episode is like, how do you decouple the politicking from like, actually, what is the issues and how can we make them better? So I've got a quote here from the chief inspector of prisons, Charlie Taylor. He welcomed the early release scheme in his annual report that was released this week.
Pod Save the UK
Inside out: How to fix the UK’s prison system + Labour embraces unpopularity
But he also said they are not in themselves a solution to decades of underinvestment and inertia in a vital public protection service. So his report draws on 72 reports also covering prisons, young offenders institutions, court custody and immigration detention centres. I'm going to play you a clip actually. So here he is speaking to BBC Breakfast.
Pod Save the UK
Inside out: How to fix the UK’s prison system + Labour embraces unpopularity
David, what do you make of that? Do you agree with that assessment? And just generally, what are your thoughts on the state of prisons as they are now?
Pod Save the UK
Inside out: How to fix the UK’s prison system + Labour embraces unpopularity
One of the things you mentioned earlier, you talked about like, you know, in America, they give these really long sentences, you know, longer than a lifetime. Where our sentences are going up, getting longer. I think there's a public perception that that must put people off committing crimes.
Pod Save the UK
Inside out: How to fix the UK’s prison system + Labour embraces unpopularity
So we spoke about this on the podcast last week, but Nish, what are your thoughts on this?
Pod Save the UK
Inside out: How to fix the UK’s prison system + Labour embraces unpopularity
Because I think it's also worth saying, and forgive me if this is a bit obvious, but when you hear the prisons are full, you might think there's more crime, but there isn't.
Pod Save the UK
Inside out: How to fix the UK’s prison system + Labour embraces unpopularity
There's less crime. I've got a note here that a report for the Howard League for Penal Reform pointed out that the prison population in 1991 was about 40,000. That's less than half of today's number. So what's going on? There's less crime, but more prison. I mean...
Pod Save the UK
Inside out: How to fix the UK’s prison system + Labour embraces unpopularity
But that's what Timpson... Yeah, exactly.
Pod Save the UK
Inside out: How to fix the UK’s prison system + Labour embraces unpopularity
No, I'm just curious, you know, about... So, you know, the prison's minister, James Timpson, there was a lot of hope around his appointment because his company did employ ex-offenders and was essentially providing a model for a better way to rehabilitate prisoners. I did have some questions about it, though.
Pod Save the UK
Inside out: How to fix the UK’s prison system + Labour embraces unpopularity
I've recently discovered that, like, as part of the scheme, he wouldn't take anyone under 25. And I just wanted to, A, get your thoughts on that.
Pod Save the UK
Inside out: How to fix the UK’s prison system + Labour embraces unpopularity
I didn't even realise I didn't even realise how much I agreed with that honestly every time my 21 year old mates yes I have them are like oh I'm going on some dates I'm like oh I'm dating some children that must be hard for you
Pod Save the UK
Inside out: How to fix the UK’s prison system + Labour embraces unpopularity
Hi, this is Pod Save the UK. I'm Coco Kahn.
Pod Save the UK
Inside out: How to fix the UK’s prison system + Labour embraces unpopularity
A lot more, yeah. I'll be honest, when I heard that the Timpson model, which I thought was brilliant, excluded men under 25, I just thought, well, what will happen to them? What will we do with them? Have you got any solutions for younger men?
Pod Save the UK
Inside out: How to fix the UK’s prison system + Labour embraces unpopularity
But would that pass the Daily Mail test? Because I recall reading in the Daily Mail test some outrage about women prisoners who would be released for a day to go and work in McDonald's. Fair enough, they want to earn some money, they want to get some skills, get some job experience for when they come out. The Daily Mail seemed to be livid about this.
Pod Save the UK
Inside out: How to fix the UK’s prison system + Labour embraces unpopularity
The idea you'd be served your Big Mac by someone who was an offender seemed to really upset them. Do you really think it could happen?
Pod Save the UK
Inside out: How to fix the UK’s prison system + Labour embraces unpopularity
You're not going to McDonald's at all. Soz.
Pod Save the UK
Inside out: How to fix the UK’s prison system + Labour embraces unpopularity
No, good. Well, you did it for me because I was going to do it.
Pod Save the UK
Inside out: How to fix the UK’s prison system + Labour embraces unpopularity
Yeah, for sure. And thank you, Peter Sinnott as well. You're very welcome. Please look out for the Prison Reform Trust and the work you're doing.
Pod Save the UK
Inside out: How to fix the UK’s prison system + Labour embraces unpopularity
OK, so it's that time again, Tory leadership. Since we spoke to you last, we've had two eliminations. The best known but least popular candidate, Priti Patel, was eliminated last Wednesday. And the least known and least likely candidate, Mel Stride, was knocked out on Tuesday afternoon.
Pod Save the UK
Inside out: How to fix the UK’s prison system + Labour embraces unpopularity
And the briefing against each other has begun. So Stephen Swinford of The Times writes that supporters of Badenoch claimed at the weekend that she was the victim of a dirty tricks campaign designed to push her out of the leadership contest.
Pod Save the UK
Inside out: How to fix the UK’s prison system + Labour embraces unpopularity
They suggested that some right-wing MPs who want to see Jenrick elected had lent their votes to Cleverley in the first round of voting in a bid to undermine Badenoch. This was emphatically rejected by the Jenrick camp, who said that the claims were, and we quote, pathetic and desperate.
Pod Save the UK
Inside out: How to fix the UK’s prison system + Labour embraces unpopularity
What is it about it that makes you zone out so strongly and quickly? I think it's just the sort of...
Pod Save the UK
Inside out: How to fix the UK’s prison system + Labour embraces unpopularity
Have you not found that he's looking a little American at the moment?
Pod Save the UK
Inside out: How to fix the UK’s prison system + Labour embraces unpopularity
Well, he seems to be releasing all these photos with these signs of people holding up signs behind him, like Jenrick for leader or whatever. Right, okay, yeah. It's all quite, well, it sounds American.
Pod Save the UK
Inside out: How to fix the UK’s prison system + Labour embraces unpopularity
Also, it's hard to shake the, well, this is pointless feeling because we know what the Conservatives are like. If you become leader, I give you 18 months before someone stabs you straight in the back and then they spin you around and straight in the heart. That's how it works. I mean, look, on the bright side, you will get a bit of a Tory break now because...
Pod Save the UK
Inside out: How to fix the UK’s prison system + Labour embraces unpopularity
I mean, they've sort of said everything they need to say. The next we'll hear from them is at the party conference. That's where the leaders will sequentially give speeches to Conservative Party members. I'm sure we'll cover that. But until then, you can have a little rest, have a little sit down.
Pod Save the UK
Inside out: How to fix the UK’s prison system + Labour embraces unpopularity
So, introducing Crooked's new social media channel, where we put real news back in your feed, so doom scrolling just got a little bit healthier.
Pod Save the UK
Inside out: How to fix the UK’s prison system + Labour embraces unpopularity
Now, last week, we updated you all on the results of the Grenfell inquiry. Please do go back and check it out if you haven't already. But to keep it brief, it found that decades of failure and systematic dishonesty were the root causes of the disaster. Never one to avoid a chance at airbrushing his legacy, the former PM, Lord David Cameron, took to X writing...
Pod Save the UK
Inside out: How to fix the UK’s prison system + Labour embraces unpopularity
The report is clear that fire safety and building safety regulations were explicitly excluded from the coalition government's greatly needed red tape reviews, given the importance we place on safety and build quality. Indeed, the coalition and post-2015 government took steps to increase fire safety regulation.
Pod Save the UK
Inside out: How to fix the UK’s prison system + Labour embraces unpopularity
Sadly, Lord Cameron is not the only former PM to be saying some really just awful egregious things on this. Tony Blair, who we've previously referred to on this show as being in his second villain era, was also out and about.
Pod Save the UK
Inside out: How to fix the UK’s prison system + Labour embraces unpopularity
And finally, this weekend, I had a joyous Saturday reading an excerpt from Diane Abbott's memoir, A Woman Like Me, published in The Guardian, which explores her life story, including her relationship with the independent MP and former leader of the Labour Party, Jeremy Corbyn. I mean, the book sounds amazing. I've just bought a copy. It has not yet arrived.
Pod Save the UK
Inside out: How to fix the UK’s prison system + Labour embraces unpopularity
I'm really excited to read about this iconic politician, but I am going to spoil a little bit. I just want to read you some of the quotes about her relationship with Jeremy Corbyn. As I say, please do read it in full. I was gripped from the first word. And it says, around that time, I began to realise that realistically, ours was not a match made in heaven. We were two different, Abbott writes.
Pod Save the UK
Inside out: How to fix the UK’s prison system + Labour embraces unpopularity
Once, after I lamented our lack of social activity as a couple, he pondered it for a few days and told me we were going out. Feeling excited, I dressed up nicely and we bundled into the car. I had no idea where we were going. Perhaps a nice wine bar? It turned out Jeremy's idea of a social outing was to drive me to Highgate Cemetery and proudly show me the tomb of Karl Marx.
Pod Save the UK
Inside out: How to fix the UK’s prison system + Labour embraces unpopularity
Look, I'm not... It's not about the choice of date for me. Literally this year on Valentine's, I went to an exhibition exploring the exploitation of women's labour in the home and the main exhibit was just a woman screaming on a loop. I consider that romantic. That's my love language. Let's talk about equal distribution of household labour. So it's not a judgment on the day.
Pod Save the UK
Inside out: How to fix the UK’s prison system + Labour embraces unpopularity
It's more the surprise element. At what point was she like, oh, this is a cemetery? You know, when I was thinking social, I was thinking, want to be around alive people? Didn't know I needed to say alive. Didn't know that was, you know, that's the bit I absolutely love.
Pod Save the UK
Inside out: How to fix the UK’s prison system + Labour embraces unpopularity
It's all online as well, isn't it?
Pod Save the UK
Inside out: How to fix the UK’s prison system + Labour embraces unpopularity
Well, obviously I'm heavily biased, but I have seen the show and it is fantastic and probably libelous. It's definitely not libelous.
Pod Save the UK
Inside out: How to fix the UK’s prison system + Labour embraces unpopularity
Was she dressed up? Was she in stilettos? It's a beautiful scene and I'm sure the book is going to be full of great anecdotes so I'm looking forward to reading it. And that's it. Thanks for listening to Pod Save the UK. And we want to hear your thoughts. Email us at psuk at reducedlistening.co.uk or drop us a voice note on WhatsApp. Our number is 07494933444.
Pod Save the UK
Inside out: How to fix the UK’s prison system + Labour embraces unpopularity
Internationally, that's plus447494933444.
Pod Save the UK
Inside out: How to fix the UK’s prison system + Labour embraces unpopularity
Pod Save the UK is a reduced listening production for Crooked Media.
Pod Save the UK
Inside out: How to fix the UK’s prison system + Labour embraces unpopularity
Our theme music is by Vasilis Fotopoulos.
Pod Save the UK
Inside out: How to fix the UK’s prison system + Labour embraces unpopularity
The executive producers are Anushka Sharma, Dan Jackson and Madeleine Herringer with additional support from Ari Schwartz.
Pod Save the UK
Inside out: How to fix the UK’s prison system + Labour embraces unpopularity
So if the government is taking the chance to implement some unpopular policies, we thought we'd help with some of our own contributions. So let's start with the realistic, a bit of crystal ball gazing for Keir Starmer's foretold things getting worse. We've already discussed some potential new taxes, rejigging inheritance tax, that would be unpopular.
Pod Save the UK
Inside out: How to fix the UK’s prison system + Labour embraces unpopularity
Capital gains tax changes, that would be unpopular. We had Paul Johnson from the IFS come onto this couch and make a very good case for changing up council tax banding.
Pod Save the UK
Inside out: How to fix the UK’s prison system + Labour embraces unpopularity
I mean, what else could they do that would really suck for them?
Pod Save the UK
Inside out: How to fix the UK’s prison system + Labour embraces unpopularity
Okay, so I'm going to say something and I know I'm going to outrage many people.
Pod Save the UK
Inside out: How to fix the UK’s prison system + Labour embraces unpopularity
How about this? Dog owners. I think you should have a license to own a dog. Oh my God.
Pod Save the UK
Inside out: How to fix the UK’s prison system + Labour embraces unpopularity
I'm sorry, but there's too many badly behaved dogs, Nish. People don't know how to train their dogs and look after their dogs. I'm just saying, I think you need a license.
Pod Save the UK
Inside out: How to fix the UK’s prison system + Labour embraces unpopularity
I know.
Pod Save the UK
Inside out: How to fix the UK’s prison system + Labour embraces unpopularity
Okay, all right, listen, let's be more egalitarian. How about licenses for all pets? Cats, rabbits, parrots.
Pod Save the UK
Inside out: How to fix the UK’s prison system + Labour embraces unpopularity
Yeah, yeah. Anyway, there you go, Keir Starmer. If you want to ruin your standing with the British public, that's a policy for you.
Pod Save the UK
Inside out: How to fix the UK’s prison system + Labour embraces unpopularity
But maybe adjacent?
Pod Save the UK
Inside out: How to fix the UK’s prison system + Labour embraces unpopularity
Yeah, full Brazil. That sounds like something I asked for at the Sabbath. I don't know which you should be saying that.
Pod Save the UK
Inside out: How to fix the UK’s prison system + Labour embraces unpopularity
Good and welcome. Okay. I've got one.
Pod Save the UK
Inside out: How to fix the UK’s prison system + Labour embraces unpopularity
I went to see the new Beetlejuice yesterday. Shouldn't have been made. Ban reboots. What do you think?
Pod Save the UK
Inside out: How to fix the UK’s prison system + Labour embraces unpopularity
It is a spicy show. And if you would like to see a legally caveated show, you should absolutely get tickets. It's running around the country to end in November.
Pod Save the UK
Inside out: How to fix the UK’s prison system + Labour embraces unpopularity
But there has to be some sort of board, the reboot board, and you submit to them why you're rebooting it. And I think you have to sufficiently prove that you will add something.
Pod Save the UK
Inside out: How to fix the UK’s prison system + Labour embraces unpopularity
Okay, all right, fine.
Pod Save the UK
Inside out: How to fix the UK’s prison system + Labour embraces unpopularity
I know we've been a bit silly here, but listeners, if you have an unpopular policy you think might make the UK a better place, let us know. Email us at psuk at reducedlistening.co.uk. And if you've not already, don't forget to subscribe so that you can hear it in next week's episode.
Pod Save the UK
Inside out: How to fix the UK’s prison system + Labour embraces unpopularity
This week, over 1,700 prisoners in England and Wales have been let out early after serving 40% of their sentence as opposed to the usual 50% in an attempt to ease overcrowding in our critically full prisons.
Pod Save the UK
Inside out: How to fix the UK’s prison system + Labour embraces unpopularity
The new temporary measure excludes people with sentences for violent crimes over four years, sex offences and certain domestic abuse-related crimes.
Pod Save the UK
Inside out: How to fix the UK’s prison system + Labour embraces unpopularity
So how has our justice system become so broken and could more radical and, dare we say it, unpopular changes help fix it? Pia Sinha is CEO of the Prison Reform Trust and a former prison governor. And David Navarro is host and producer of Delinquent Nation on YouTube, in which he interviews fellow ex-prisoners. Welcome to you both. Thank you. Thank you for having us.
Pod Save the UK
Inside out: How to fix the UK’s prison system + Labour embraces unpopularity
But anyway, let's get into the political news of the week, where Keir Starmer asks, well, who wants to be popular anyway?
Pod Save the UK
Inside out: How to fix the UK’s prison system + Labour embraces unpopularity
I do just want to pick up on this early release. David, actually, some of the people being released early have nowhere to go. Last month, prison inspectors found that a quarter of prisoners at HMP Nottingham released under that scheme were homeless, leading some returning to the prison system. So what are some other challenges that people face when they get released?
Pod Save the UK
Inside out: How to fix the UK’s prison system + Labour embraces unpopularity
And later, we're joined by two very special guests to discuss the challenges facing our prison system. But first, Nish is back. Return of the Mac. Where have you been?
Pod Save the UK
Inside out: How to fix the UK’s prison system + Labour embraces unpopularity
Obviously, David, you interview ex-offenders on your YouTube channel. That resignation that Pia talked about there, is that something you've encountered as well?
Pod Save the UK
Inside out: How to fix the UK’s prison system + Labour embraces unpopularity
So in general, the sense I get from you is that the early release scheme, you think it's good, it's positive.
Pod Save the UK
The Tories lose their minds (again) - can Starmer hold against the far right?
And also just to add on to that, are there like out of bounds areas? You know, you were talking about the centrism of the whole and you pick from everything to get the best of everything. It's hard to stomach that like a fascist would have good ideas. But is that central to the system of centrism?
Pod Save the UK
The Tories lose their minds (again) - can Starmer hold against the far right?
That is so bananas. Such a large majority, arguably squandered. So what is going on here? Well, there's obviously no one single reason, but there's been a story that has been leading the Westminster press that may cast some sort of light on it.
Pod Save the UK
The Tories lose their minds (again) - can Starmer hold against the far right?
Nothing's off limits.
Pod Save the UK
The Tories lose their minds (again) - can Starmer hold against the far right?
Got you, got you.
Pod Save the UK
The Tories lose their minds (again) - can Starmer hold against the far right?
I keep going back to the thing of what is it? This is still this nebulous concept. You know, James Cleverley calls himself a centrist. Okay, Starmer doesn't call himself a centrist, but as we've discussed here, probably is a centrist. Is everybody a centrist?
Pod Save the UK
The Tories lose their minds (again) - can Starmer hold against the far right?
It just scares me when you don't know what it is. Do you know what I mean? The point of principles is that it is a barometer in which you can use it to assess things. When something is so slippery... You know, I find it unnerving in a personal way.
Pod Save the UK
The Tories lose their minds (again) - can Starmer hold against the far right?
It's the old Goldilocks, right? Not too hot, not too cold, just right.
Pod Save the UK
The Tories lose their minds (again) - can Starmer hold against the far right?
And later, we promise there will be some hope as Labour MP Nadia Whittam joins us to tell us about what she's working on, the things we can look forward to now that Parliament is finally back in action.
Pod Save the UK
The Tories lose their minds (again) - can Starmer hold against the far right?
So can I infer from this that you're optimistic about, you know, the next four years?
Pod Save the UK
The Tories lose their minds (again) - can Starmer hold against the far right?
So Sue Gray has now been replaced by someone called Morgan McSweeney. He was formerly the executive director of Labour Together, and that's the Labour-aligned think tank that has kind of been credited for bringing Labour to power. It's also been credited with the shift more to the right.
Pod Save the UK
The Tories lose their minds (again) - can Starmer hold against the far right?
Thank you. Wow, what a fascinating conversation.
Pod Save the UK
The Tories lose their minds (again) - can Starmer hold against the far right?
Yeah, no, absolutely. And I mean... My instinct is I still don't trust it. Don't trust it. But it's been interesting to sort of hear about even just the long legacy of it and how people who would not consider themselves centrists are centrists and those who claim to be centrists don't necessarily exhibit the qualities of it.
Pod Save the UK
The Tories lose their minds (again) - can Starmer hold against the far right?
Each week, Ben Rhodes and Tommy Vitor break down global news, share insider stories from their time in the White House, and bring on experts to explain what really matters.
Pod Save the UK
The Tories lose their minds (again) - can Starmer hold against the far right?
New episodes drop every Wednesday in the Pod Save the World feed or on YouTube. And for extra election deep dives, catch Ben's special series every Saturday until November 5th, where he's breaking down what's at stake for foreign policy between US presidential nominees Kamala Harris and Donald Trump.
Pod Save the UK
The Tories lose their minds (again) - can Starmer hold against the far right?
Labour Together was created following Ed Miliband's defeat in 2015 and is generally considered to be centre-right in the Labour Party.
Pod Save the UK
The Tories lose their minds (again) - can Starmer hold against the far right?
Much needed indeed. I'm looking forward to it. Joining us now is Nadia Whittam, Labour MP for Nottingham East since 2019. She's been outspoken on the cost of living, the climate crisis, care work and LGBTQ plus rights.
Pod Save the UK
The Tories lose their minds (again) - can Starmer hold against the far right?
Hi, this is Pod Save the UK and I'm Coco Kahn.
Pod Save the UK
The Tories lose their minds (again) - can Starmer hold against the far right?
I have to give you my tip, right? So basically, if you're in a situation and you're talking to an MP and you don't know their name, you go, so sorry, what's your name again? And then they'll say, I'm Roger Moore. It's not Roger Moore.
Pod Save the UK
The Tories lose their minds (again) - can Starmer hold against the far right?
It was the only thing that came to my mind.
Pod Save the UK
The Tories lose their minds (again) - can Starmer hold against the far right?
And so then they say, oh, I'm Roger Moore. And you go, oh, Roger. I mean, of course I knew you were Roger. It was the last name. It was the last name. And then you, you know, you finesse it. Anyway, you can have that for free.
Pod Save the UK
The Tories lose their minds (again) - can Starmer hold against the far right?
You'd call him Matt. You'd say John. You'd just guess.
Pod Save the UK
The Tories lose their minds (again) - can Starmer hold against the far right?
Oh, apparently we've had a note from the producer. There's a Robbie Moore, the Conservative MP for Keeley and Ilkley. Then maybe you're thinking of him. Who's that and where's that?
Pod Save the UK
The Tories lose their minds (again) - can Starmer hold against the far right?
Yes. You tell him.
Pod Save the UK
The Tories lose their minds (again) - can Starmer hold against the far right?
I'll be dead. Will I be dead?
Pod Save the UK
The Tories lose their minds (again) - can Starmer hold against the far right?
I can assure you Nadia, if I'm spending £1,000 a day, I'm dead in a week. Trust me on that.
Pod Save the UK
The Tories lose their minds (again) - can Starmer hold against the far right?
I mean, listening to you now, Nadia, it sounds like there's hopeful things, low-hanging fruit that can be won, things can be changed. That sounds great because I'll be honest, sitting here outside of the party, we're coming up to 100 days of this new government. It feels like the notes are quite doomy, a bit sort of expect the worst, things aren't going to get better.
Pod Save the UK
The Tories lose their minds (again) - can Starmer hold against the far right?
Is that how it feels inside the camp?
Pod Save the UK
The Tories lose their minds (again) - can Starmer hold against the far right?
See, this is my concern, right? It's that we all know that just because it's leading the Westminster pages doesn't mean it actually is the biggest issue in politics. We know that. We call it the bubble, don't we? For a reason. Who's in? Who's out? Who's up? Who's down? It's all a bit gossipy. And so there is a part of me that feels like, are we sure we're just not using Sue Gray as a scapegoat?
Pod Save the UK
The Tories lose their minds (again) - can Starmer hold against the far right?
You mentioned the far-right riots there, and there were many different things that happened to cause this hellish month of intimidation on the streets. But one thing that was part of it was disinformation on social media. Now, you are one of the most popular politicians on social media. I can imagine that is extremely challenging.
Pod Save the UK
The Tories lose their minds (again) - can Starmer hold against the far right?
Do you think this reflects where politics should be, that we should have politicians... engaging with social media properly in order to curb the more malignant forces that we see coming through.
Pod Save the UK
The Tories lose their minds (again) - can Starmer hold against the far right?
Are they all called John?
Pod Save the UK
The Tories lose their minds (again) - can Starmer hold against the far right?
That's the other one.
Pod Save the UK
The Tories lose their minds (again) - can Starmer hold against the far right?
I mean, reform are massive on TikTok. Genuinely massive. It's quite chilling. Yeah. Is it the new frontier?
Pod Save the UK
The Tories lose their minds (again) - can Starmer hold against the far right?
This idea that like, the reason the polling is so bad is because Sue Gray didn't send out press releases about the good stuff that Labour's doing. Doesn't that make it seem like, oh, Labour's been doing loads of great stuff that we don't hear about and it's Sue Gray's fault? Are we sure that's the case? I don't know how I feel about this story.
Pod Save the UK
The Tories lose their minds (again) - can Starmer hold against the far right?
I'm really glad to hear you say that because it's been a big bugbear of mine is this idea that the working class are more racist. That really winds me up. You know, even if you just, just by the crudest measure of like mixed families, you tend to see them more in working class communities. So working class communities are more diverse.
Pod Save the UK
The Tories lose their minds (again) - can Starmer hold against the far right?
I find it, I think you're absolutely right that like it can, sometimes we can't solve these issues because we wrap it all up in snooty class politics and it's really unfair and it doesn't solve anything and doesn't make anything better. Yeah.
Pod Save the UK
The Tories lose their minds (again) - can Starmer hold against the far right?
Well, that's a beautiful place to leave it. Thank you so much, Nadia. I'm sorry you're not having a good time, but listen, work is never fun and you're doing the work. So thank you for that.
Pod Save the UK
The Tories lose their minds (again) - can Starmer hold against the far right?
Thank you for joining us on Podsafe UK.
Pod Save the UK
The Tories lose their minds (again) - can Starmer hold against the far right?
And I think as well, you know, certainly a factor in why people are worried is that we still don't really know who Keir Starmer is. You know, what does he represent? What could we expect? What is Starmerism? But luckily for us, our next guest is someone who has a bit of an inkling.
Pod Save the UK
The Tories lose their minds (again) - can Starmer hold against the far right?
Wow, wow, wow. The person before him to live in that place, presumably the one who left it as a crack den, was Theresa May. I mean... I just don't buy it.
Pod Save the UK
The Tories lose their minds (again) - can Starmer hold against the far right?
You didn't feel comforted by him saying, I paid for it, but I don't know how much I paid.
Pod Save the UK
The Tories lose their minds (again) - can Starmer hold against the far right?
I think that that man is... That is fiscal responsibility, no, Nish? That's what we want in this country. Oh, my God.
Pod Save the UK
The Tories lose their minds (again) - can Starmer hold against the far right?
I saw a picture of Theresa May in her flat. It looked absolutely lovely when she was in 10 Downing Street. So this was before Johnson took over. And I had this moment of like, oh, my God, she had some of the same coffee tables as me.
Pod Save the UK
The Tories lose their minds (again) - can Starmer hold against the far right?
I know. How chilling is that? I got mine secondhand, to be fair. It's from Habitat.
Pod Save the UK
The Tories lose their minds (again) - can Starmer hold against the far right?
So that's it. Thanks for listening to Pod Save the UK and we want to hear your thoughts. Email us at psuk at reducelistening.co.uk.
Pod Save the UK
The Tories lose their minds (again) - can Starmer hold against the far right?
Pod Save the UK is a reduced listening production for Crooked Media.
Pod Save the UK
The Tories lose their minds (again) - can Starmer hold against the far right?
Our theme music is by Vasilis Fotopoulos.
Pod Save the UK
The Tories lose their minds (again) - can Starmer hold against the far right?
The executive producers are Anishka Sharma and Madeleine Herringer, with additional support from Ari Schwartz.
Pod Save the UK
The Tories lose their minds (again) - can Starmer hold against the far right?
Just think, the English language is a very beautiful thing. There's so many other ways to describe stuff. Wouldn't you agree, darling?
Pod Save the UK
The Tories lose their minds (again) - can Starmer hold against the far right?
Yeah, and everyone always compares him to Malcolm Tucker. But how many Malcolm Tuckers can there be? I constantly hear this.
Pod Save the UK
The Tories lose their minds (again) - can Starmer hold against the far right?
It's so boring.
Pod Save the UK
The Tories lose their minds (again) - can Starmer hold against the far right?
That's Rishi Sunak, former prime minister and leader of the opposition, shooting at an open goal.
Pod Save the UK
The Tories lose their minds (again) - can Starmer hold against the far right?
I think as well, Morgan McSweeney occupies a particular space. We'd say the centre-right of the Labour Party. I think it's fair to say we're not on the centre-right of our own politics. Do you think that this signifies a change in what we can expect? Because also, I would say, I don't know what to expect from Keir Starmer. What is Starmerism?
Pod Save the UK
The Tories lose their minds (again) - can Starmer hold against the far right?
That's so interesting because obviously your new book is about centrism. And I was under the impression that Keir Starmer is a centrist. Have I got that wrong?
Pod Save the UK
The Tories lose their minds (again) - can Starmer hold against the far right?
Well, actually, yeah, let's talk about centrism. What is it?
Pod Save the UK
The Tories lose their minds (again) - can Starmer hold against the far right?
The hand mole man of politics.
Pod Save the UK
The Tories lose their minds (again) - can Starmer hold against the far right?
Does that mean that centrism, because my thought about it was that it's constantly relative. It's always moving depending on what's going on. You found that not to be right. It is absolute in that it has certain principles.