Carl Lentz
Appearances
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
So the way I frame it is what am I going to do with that scoreboard that I see? I choose not to activate it because to say you don't see it, for me, that's not honest. I've seen other people, maybe they're more healthy than me, but I do see it. I am human. And I do sometimes feel like hey, you owe me, but that's not right.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
So rather than push or resist or act like that thought's not real, I bring that sucker out and I look at it and I say, no, we're not doing that.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
Yeah, blue blockers are still cool. The yellow ones are even cooler, like the night vision rifle glasses.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
These are really good questions, by the way. I'll point to a friend and in many ways a mentor to me. His name is Jason Jaggard. He runs Novus Global, which is a coaching firm. And I learned so much from these guys that it's just I can't even articulate it. And I would submit to any boss or anybody at a high level.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
Most of my life now I spend with executive coaching, dealing with people who are running companies. And the situations are the same across humanity, but the weight is different. That's all you find. And so in a situation like this, I often tell a boss, this is a beautiful way to go about it. I broke your trust by doing this. I'm sorry, forgive me.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
Please let me know the impact that my actions had on you so I can seek to make it right. Who's rejecting that? And then they have to trust that there is room to talk about the impact. Okay, you did this and now I don't know if I can ever trust you. I hear that. And then you operate from there and you get a chance to amend it.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
But this clears up the room for everybody because the impact's not the same. Like my trust break didn't impact you, Minda, the same way it impacted somebody in our church in Manhattan or somebody that was a part of our church in Jersey. So I can't just be like, I'm sorry. You were disappointed that I was a pastor. No, that's not even why that person was hurt.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
So to be able to look at somebody, especially if it's a team that you lead and say, let me know what the impact of my action had on you and we can build from there. That takes a humble, powerful person to be able to do that. And that's why most people don't do it. So they try to almost arrogantly rise above it, like people should get over it.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
We don't have the right to control people's response to our bad decisions. They're owed the dignity of that process. So that would be my humble submission is some sort of version of that. I've just seen it work 100 times out of 100. So someone can reject it, but I'm also saying it's undefeated.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
It works. It works in every facet of life. You can take that and do it for any break of commitment. The same mechanism works. Roman, my son, I told you we were going to go play ball at 7. I'm here at 7.30. I broke my word. Will you forgive me? And will you tell me the impact that's had on you, if there has been any, so I can seek to make that right?
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
Sometimes my kids will cut me off now in the middle. I'm fine. I'm fine. No impact, Dad. But the principle is making sure that you understand that I am sorry and I don't disrespect you so much that I just act like your schedule wasn't changed. There's nothing worse than someone showing up late for a meeting and they act like it was your fault that you came to the meeting they asked you to be at.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
Sorry I'm late. I got so much on. It has nothing to do with me. You're late.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
So honesty will do that to you. The honesty will make it clear really quick.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
Yes. So for your amazing listeners, I haven't seen these. I wanted to make sure that this is honest. I just have to decide, do I want to answer these with my broken self or my healing self? Because they're two different words. So some days I'll have days where I'll answer this for real. But no, I'm joking. Shoot. I'm going to give you my best answer. My most honest.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
Everybody needs them and they're not second chances. There need to be 2 million. Chances in general are needed.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
Can make or break those around that leader.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
The opposite is death and zero.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
Something that I'll embrace the rest of my life.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
concrete power beautiful see i would add you to game night carl you did that makes me that i received that because i like to be a valuable member at game nights we play banana grams we play other games and i do like to be at the elite level of those games minda are you a scrabble person no but i'm a banana grams person so i like i prefer banana grams over scrabble
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
Maybe there's not a balance. Maybe it's only acceptance and boundaries. Because what can I accept? So if I'm able to give you part of the truth and be kind of nice and I can accept that, Then that's my boundary. But if I look at you and I have something I really feel like I need to say, but I don't want to say it because I don't want to hurt you.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
I can't accept you continuing to do what you're doing. So I've got to say it either way. So for me, it's all about what can I accept? I don't mean that callously, but I don't care enough about you to really get into the nitty gritty. I accept that. But sometimes nice comments. Yeah, nice is a shield. But I think that the nicest thing we can do sometimes is to be honest.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
So I always challenge somebody's definition of even that word. But again, it comes back to the same thing. What can you accept? So being nice is producing someone's continual dysfunctional behavior towards you. You're accepting that. I don't know if you've chosen that, but you're accepting. For me, there are some things I cannot accept. So I'm going to have to not be nice.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
I can't accept the way you're talking to me. So I'm going to have to lay this down. And your feelings are not my problem. You're a grown adult. You got to manage those. I need to be honest. And it's a simple life.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
I think trust. surprises me about trust. To me, trust is always coupled with being vulnerable. So I think I didn't realize that when I'm not walking in truth and trust and vulnerability, there is an area of me that's hindered. And I think if you need like a word, I don't know if you've ever been in a hospital and those gowns they put you in, they're not very stable. Okay.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
So you take one wrong turn and And you could have someone get a view that you're not comfortable with. So you might be having a conversation, but inside you feel a little bit tentative. That to me is what it's like to live a life that doesn't have trust, doesn't have honesty.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
You could be present to a degree and you're there, but you'll never know what it feels like to have a sweater on and some pants and stand there in full confidence. Whenever I talk to people who have trust issues, I'm like, you don't really have a trust issue. You have a freedom issue. That's what's really going on here.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
So once you frame it like that, oh, my gosh, I better work on my trust stuff because I don't want to live imprisoned by my own lack of anything.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
They don't. When people say stuff like that, I'm like, man, you're really clear and confident in your issues. I'd rather be really clear and confident in my gifting and my strength. So some people are experts in what they don't have. And that's a choice.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
My honest answer is I haven't thought of that because I can't control it. So what gives me hope is the power to be honest. I can control that. So your capacity to forgive and to trust is actually your business. So what gives me joy and a little bit of peace is rather than, I spent a lot of my life way too concerned about other people's feelings and emotions.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
It was one of the things that robbed me the most as a pastor. So on this side of my life, I am not wasting a day on trying to control or wonder or assume your capacity of anything. I want to look over there and be like, how much forgiveness can you give me? How much? And I stop and I go. How much evidence can I give people? You'll show me your capacity through our relationship.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
But my job is to provide you with such a freaking buffet of options that if you don't trust me, that's on you. So I do think to answer the question really simply, I think people's capacity for hope and forgiveness are really big because that's how God created us to be. It's inherent in the life of a human created by a very loving God that we have capacity. We desire forgiveness. We desire peace.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
We desire that. That's why when you have to reconcile with somebody, there's always like this weird hitch in your step. It's because we weren't created to be divided at all. Those are two really wordy answers for your brilliant question. So hopefully somebody can get something from one of those two versions.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
Whatever you're avoiding, there's power behind it. whatever that is. So rather than run from it, especially when it comes to money, by the way, it's why it's funny, a lot of people avoid the budget and the deep thinking and the books because they fear it. So I have learned I can confidently say whatever you fear, there's freedom behind it. So it might be worth staring that thing down.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
Whatever you're avoiding, there's power behind it. It's taken too much from me, so might as well go see what's behind there.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
So excited to be here, Minda. Thank you for having me.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
Yeah, fair question. I think I would phrase that now a little bit differently. I think I would say the behavior and the patterns and the thinking of that part of me, I no longer recognize. Because I realized, I said that and I meant it at the time, I was trying to speak to how different life feels. But technically broken down, I am the same human being, the same person, same man.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
But so much has changed where I look back on some of the things that I used to do and operate with, and I don't recognize that. So I think I am becoming a different person every day. And so now I look at that, and I don't even reject that guy anymore because that's a part of who I was, and it's made me who I am today.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
So I've learned to look at that part of me with kindness and say, I don't do those things anymore. I don't think like that. Without you, I'm not here. And here, a place of health and peace. And that guy is still here, but he operates differently. So that's a more succinct way to say it. But yes, even your semantics around your own growth sometimes change.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
I've said publicly, like, that's the funniest question you hear in the podcast world, because no one's ever asked it before. What would you say to your 16-year-old self? I would have hugged him and been like, you're going to be all right, bro. Because explaining to him the psyche behind addiction and recovery and patterns and sexual trauma, that 16-year-old would have been like, no thanks, bro.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
He wouldn't have listened anyway. So I'm with you. I look back on those days and just the key is kindness in general, kindness to yourself, kindness to other people. And that's what I would give my 16-year-old self, a big hug and a kind glance. It may be an encouraging word, but advice about the stuff that you find out as an older person, I don't know if it even works.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
I think what I would say about transparency now, I wasn't brave enough at the time to out myself and to come clean. So I was caught. And I say that just for someone who's watching who doesn't understand everybody's story. Now, between me and you, I feel like God rescued me and saved me. But for all intents and purposes, we can say I was caught.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
And then on the other side of that, I had a choice, which is do I want to continue to live a life where there's hidden things about me Or do I want to start something fresh? And transparency to me now is about how much freedom do you want to have? So it's not, do I need it, do I not? I like a better question, which is how free do you wanna be?
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
Because anytime you're not transparent, there's gonna be stuff in your life that is disempowering the best parts of you. And as long as you can reckon with that, cool. For me, I was like, I've lived that life. I've lived a life that had compartments, hidden things, shadows, a lot of great things too, but that didn't work out so well for me.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
So moving forward now, transparency, I can say like this, Minda, I used to think transparency was a really important thing. Now I think transparency is a life or death essential thing. That's how I would describe that change.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
Because I'm not going to go through all this pain and not maximize it. So if one of the things coming out of this is telling other people, hey, by the way, you don't ever have to live. dishonest or in shadows or withholding, that's what I'm going to do. One of the beautiful redeeming parts of our story is that I do get to be able to use that as a front facing opening line of transparency.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
You can check out my story. It's right there. You can read about it for false or not. It's there to see. And I can honestly tell you transparency is something that I believe to be vital for sure.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
I think it comes down to, and this will be a thread in the transparency discussion, the better question is, what are you willing to accept? If you're not going to be transparent, what is that going to cost you? And if you can live with that, cool, but don't lie to yourself. So I've got something I need to share. If I don't share it, it will cost me this.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
If I do share it, it's going to cost me that. What can I accept? So that's really what transparency comes down to is like, what do you want to accept? How much peace do you want? How much disempowered area in your life do you want to keep? And that's on you. So that's how I gauge it now. I'm like, okay, price tag of this honesty is going to be this. Yeah, I'm going to pay that.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
Or no, I'm not going to pay that. Because there are times where I'm not going to be transparent with somebody. Because I've accepted the fact that if I do that, it makes me feel unsafe and I don't trust you. So I can accept withholding this part of me until I believe that's real. So I'm choosing that. But as long as I'm in control of it, I have the power.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
If I don't, then my honesty or lack thereof is now dictating how I move. And I don't want to live a life like that.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
As a leader, it takes two major things. It takes time and it takes faith. So it takes time to prove new habits, new thinking, new results. And then it takes faith from the people that are in your world to give you an opportunity to show it. Because neither of these two things you are owed when you break trust.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
Let's just say, if I'm a leader in your life and I broke your trust, it's going to require for us to have a new chapter. I'm going to need time to prove my words are not just words, but I'm also going to need faith from you to give me an opportunity to even show it. If one of those two things isn't in play, it just leads to a really shaky outcome.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
hesitant life towards somebody who's broken trust. That's pretty much in my personal world. If I do begin a relationship with somebody, I'm pretty clear on that. Like, hey, I'm moving forward. Just like I give you time and I give you faith to believe that you're going to be the best version of you. But for me, I'm not on a tryout for you.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
I'm not doing that because that's an expectation I can't meet. I will say that time tells a real story, but I'm going to need faith from you to trust that I'm actually who I say I am. You don't owe me that, but this is going to go a lot better if you give it. So that's on you. But, Minda, the beautiful part is I can't control either of those factors.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
So when it comes to rebuilding, a lot of people look at that as an arduous task. And I always say, you're looking at it from the wrong angle. I cannot control whether you're going to give me time or whether you're going to give me faith. All I can control is living honestly. And I got my hands full with that. And I'll take my chances. So let me cover my side of the tracks as a leader.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
I broke your trust. I've apologized. I've repented. I've changed. That's clear. From here on out, how you handle my life is on you. I can't control it. It's none of my business. My business is, am I honest? Can I stand on this life? And I can, but I can't force or even ask you to believe it. That's on you. If you want what I have to offer, you're going to have to let down your drawbridge.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
And that's on you. I got all day. I'm going to be here. I'm going to be over here building my life. So it's like, whenever that day comes for you, let me know. I'm going to be here.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
A real honest answer is it's taught me a lot. I think once you've decided whether you're going to be in or out of somebody's life after they've broken your trust. All I would tell people is just be clear one way or the other, because it's a real easy judgment to make. That person left me. He left my life. That's not really a fair, healthy way to look at it.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
The right way to look at it is I broke your trust and you made a decision on it. I don't really have the right to judge that. I can have some thoughts. But at least I can say this to the other side of the tracks, because I have been on the other side of the tracks where people have broken my trust. And all I would say is just be as clear as you freaking can.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
Nobody needs your games, your passive aggressive ghosting, your thinly veiled texts that don't really say much, but mean much. Be clear. I don't feel safe. Therefore, I will be vacating your life. That might seem or even be harsh, but that's what I got to do. Great. Thank you. Or the other thing is I'm going to try to make this work. I don't know what that looks like, but let's go forward. Great.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
What didn't help me is people who were wishy-washy and they wouldn't stand on what they were doing. Hey, man, just tell me that you don't ever want to be my friend again. I can handle it. But what you're doing. is leaving everything in limbo. So I think that's my submission to people who are in the middle of a journey like that. Do whatever you feel like you need to do.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
Who cares if someone's going to judge it? But at least have the courage to stand on it. Me and Laura have seen and heard now from so many people that we try to help who are always just astounded at the abandonment. of them in their valley. And we get it in a new way now. And I can firmly say it's a pattern of humanity to just leave people and not talk about it.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
And my kids, their generation is just ghosting. It's just a part of the way you communicate. I'm going to break up with you by just never talking to you for four months. It's horrible. But we do that. Even us, our generation has our own version of that. And so I think that's what I tell people is just be honest. If you can't do it, say it. If you're trying, say it. But don't say nothing.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
That kills people when they're in a valley.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
I'll tell you, Minda, yes, I feel that in my chest. How I found peace with that, even before this journey, was digging in really deep, especially as a pastor, saying, what am I doing this for? What's my expectation? If I go in with an expectation that this will be reciprocal, I'm setting myself up for something.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
Because you really, this isn't like an arrogant thing, but you're not going to be able to reciprocate what a pastor does for you. You don't know how much they pray. You don't know what they're fighting. You don't know what they're doing. And that's the case for a lot of people. But for me, that part of the journey wasn't as hard. It doesn't mean I didn't have days of, really?
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
You're going to abandon me. And I freaking be like that finger does come out some days. But when I'm my best self, I go, it would be nice if you return some of that gracious favor I gave you. But I didn't do what I did for you. Someday I could be like, hey, I did it because it was right.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
And if that's true, if that was my motive, then there's not going to be a whole lot of bitterness there because I didn't do it for that. That's not to say it doesn't hurt. It does feel extra salty when somebody that you have poured into and when you come calling for a little bit of help, they don't give you anything. I had a lot of that in my life, Minda.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
A lot of people, especially in ministry, that I, for lack of a better term, I helped them go further.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
in a major way and then the moment we went through our thing and so now you don't want to be associated with me and so the scoreboard is a hundred to one but whose fault is it that i'm looking at a scoreboard i said i didn't play under that's on me but i want to be honest and say it's definitely there it's something i had to get over and it's more resourceful for me not to look that way but it's there once in a while it'll pop up and i'll say i see you scoreboard i'm not gonna not gonna look at you too long but i see you
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
And you start realizing, well, thank God that we checked that one off. This ain't on me because I'm not good enough. So pressure I never felt. I started to feel pressure to manage things. And I started to do it internally. And that was kind of the beginning of the end of that chapter for me. And I didn't share didn't share that pressure and that in that burden.
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
So excited to be here, bro. Let's go. You're awesome. It's so cool just to even be around people that are as genuine and faith-filled as you because, unfortunately, it feels like it's kind of rare. So just to be able to see you from far and meet you, man, it's already really encouraging. Can you cover up your tattoos before we finish?
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
Bryce, you're a great question asker. Also, do you take a moment to just talk about how great your shirt is?
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
I got to get you one. I mean, if I summed up what happened, I think when I when I got caught. You know, in a. a life and pattern that became really clear quickly, it began a domino effect. Meaning, if you get caught lying, it's fair to go, what else is this guy lying about? And then you start looking around and say, who does this guy know? And are they guilty of the same?
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
And then this ripple effect goes and everybody starts running for cover. So you find out that some Christians love to preach and talk about the hard times, but we don't love to live in them. You find that out. Hopefully you'll never find that out from the wrong angle. Um, but by and large, man, people, they run, they run from problems. They run from, from things that are ugly.
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
And my situation was very, very ugly. So it just began a slow breakdown. I mean, people want to know what happened. I, you know, I had, there was infidelity in my marriage and
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
i got caught and it was a chance for me to really get clean and get honest so it's like yeah and even though parts of what we're told were very false to fight some of those details would be so stupid like who wants to be the guy who's like no no it wasn't on tuesday it was wednesday it's like dude we're talking about robbing a bank who cares what day it's on right like yeah that's what it was like for me to have to learn how to accept the decisions that i made put me in a position
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
to have a lot of things be said but if people want to know what what really happened at Hillsong New York City um human human leaders and and are there aspects of the way that church is done that needs to be assessed and changed for sure that should happen anyway um but it wasn't as complicated and spectacular as some people tried to make it out it just wasn't and it was too juicy of a story for people to not just let it be what it is which is
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
I had some serious issues in my life. And when you're a leader, they're going to come get you at some point. And that's what happened to me. And then, yeah, it exposed more about the greater Hillsong movement in a bunch of different ways and just started a ripple effect.
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
But that's, you know, the effect on my family was the hardest part of all this because they had nothing to do with my sin and my choices. And that's what you find with sin, bro. It's less about you and more about the impact it has on other people across the board. Yeah, it affects you, but what we fail to realize sometimes is we're so selfish when it comes to the stuff we're dealing.
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
I'm sinning, and it's making me feel like this, and God's mad. It's like, yeah, and your sin impacts other people. So for me to have to see that living color with my own kids, man, it was not easy. It was not easy. It's something that for a while I didn't think I could get through. But my wife gave me a chance to figure out if I could fix some of the things that we now knew were broken.
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
It's one thing to know you're not well. It's another thing to go to a doctor and say, here's what you have. Now, have you ever had one of those moments where you just feel kind of sick? You're like, I don't know what it is, but I feel something coming on. It's kind of unsettling because you're like, I don't know if it's pneumonia, could be a cold. I don't know.
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
That's kind of what it feels like when you get real good help. Like when you go, I went to a rehab and I went to a counseling place and
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
to be able to have someone dial this in i was able to tell laura like you know the rest of my life i'll earn her trust back it's everyday thing but if you give me a chance um i'd like to show and proof my words mean nothing they still matter i still need to say i'm sorry i still need to say that these five things and i realize my words have no weight none my decisions took the weight out of my words
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
And if you'll give me a chance to give them depth and meaning again, I will prove to you that God can change anybody's life. And so she gave me a chance to do that. And she graded me in segments. It was like people get a wrong idea about what that can look like. And my wife was never like, it's OK, I forgive you. She didn't forgive me really verbally for two and a half years.
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
But every we had a plan and there would be some check marks and some road marks about how she felt about my life and everything. And over time, you string those together and you have what we have now, which is like the best second marriage I could ever want. You know, we just stopped trying to make the first one work. It did not go well. It ended and we started a second marriage.
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
And, you know, we're doing it different this time and it feels really good. So it's the impact on them.
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
highlighted some tough things about the church culture you know we for my wife to be you know abandoned like she was and for my kids to you know have to go through the hurt they did probably didn't have to happen like that there are some churches that do it different now because of that and that's cool but yeah we have a Christian community sometimes that can run from people who need you the most when you need them the most and I'm grateful that that wasn't totally the case with me you know we had some people that did stick around and help us out and that's why I'm sitting here today
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
Well, you can't defend and heal at the same time. Doesn't work. So if you ever find yourself in a position where it's like, what's the bigger priority? Is it me coming out and doing an interview right away to make sure everybody knows who else was wrong and everybody who's lying about me? Let me make sure everybody knows about them. Or is the priority to get fix my life?
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
Throw out some names. Um, TD Jake's.
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
What matters more, my healing or my reputation? Well, well, my reputation was gone and I did that. And I wasn't going to fix it by pointing out a liar. And so I just, by the grace of God, Bryce, was able to just freaking harness that. I am shutting it down. This whole world is done to me. They can write movies. They can make documentaries.
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
People can do their weird little bloggy thingies that they do. They can make... What do your thing? I've got business to handle and it's my life. It's my relationship with Jesus and it is to save my family and everything else can burn. And that's exactly the approach we took. And, um, some days were easier than others to do that.
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
Uh, it wasn't like this easy road, but, but by and large, we were really able to, to really able to hold onto that, that frame, man. And it, uh, you know, it helped us heal.
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
Yeah. Unfortunately – And sometimes it's good to remember as Christians, like, don't forget the guy that we serve was murdered for being perfect. It's like it's always a good perspective piece like, oh, yeah, because we have this vision like we're preaching the good news. We're helping people. We're doing good serving God. Why do some people hate us? Oh, yeah. Jesus was murdered without cause.
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
That's our call. So it's going to happen. And when it comes to grace, the way that you just set up how you feel about yourself, I think I relate to all of it, bro. I was so good at giving grace to other people and teaching other people about grace. But it was just me and myself and my sin and my weakness and my life in Jesus. I was bad at making that connection.
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
And I think a lot of people struggle with this. So it's probably why God has a spotlight on you, because you can help people find a better way. Like, I think you think about grace. Why would it be? Why would it be hard for somebody to forgive themselves and move on?
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
So let's just say you had a bad night last night and you hate it and you've prayed, you've asked God to forgive you and you get up and try to live. Why would it be hard? What are you kicking around? Just genuinely asking and I'll be able to maybe point to some of it, but like walk me through what the hangups are. Right. So you have a bad night. You go through that thing again.
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
You fall on your face. You've repented. You've changed your mind about it. Done what God said to do. And you still struggle with that hangs over your head. I think a lot of people feel like that. So for you, what do you think it might be?
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
Yeah, I feel like I've been a Christian as long as I can remember in that my family is amazing. So my mom and dad live in Virginia Beach where I was kind of born and raised. And Virginia Beach, Virginia, shout out to everybody on the East Coast. And my parents, they really love Jesus. So over the years, you know, my journey looked like trying to figure out my place in church.
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
Yeah, man. Thank you for being vulnerable. I think all I, I'm hearing a very human story right now. So all I heard you say was you're a human being. Like if you look at it from a one perspective, it's like, so let me get this straight. Even the way you framed it, like, and I can't even give grace to like, what if that's not true? What if you're learning how to give grace?
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
And sometimes when it comes to families, it's the hardest thing to navigate out of everything. And you're doing a really good job as you learn. Is that equally true?
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
would i would agree yeah one of those thoughts is resourceful i can't even give grace to my family i'm crappy or i'm learning as i go and i'm aware that family can be really tricky and i cannot wait to watch god lead me through this and figure it out both these things are true you got to choose which one is going to be true for you today and i think when it comes to grace right off the bat i i always know where somebody's at
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
quickly with how they respond to their own sin. I've been a pastor for a long time, so you see it all. And I can always tell people who really have a different revelation of Jesus because they're very cognizant of what they do right and wrong, but it's the posture. The posture is, I'm already in. So I like using the words for and from. Like, do you pray for God's approval or do you pray from it?
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
Are you doing good so that God will love you more or are you doing good because he already loves you so much you can't change it? Are you going to reach people so that God will be happy with you? Or are you going to reach people because God already reached you? The posture is so different. So even with grace, it's like, okay, I've fallen on my face. What would be the fear?
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
Like, did God change his mind about you because of your sin?
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
Right. And so for someone who has theological depth at a young age, your brain will be fighting you on that right away because you know that can't be true because that wouldn't be the same guy that saved you. So the very same grace that accepts you as the broken messes that we are, does this suddenly shift now that we're on this side of salvation?
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
This wouldn't make any sense, but that's the way you think with the way Christians live. So we are so ready to come to Jesus with all of our baggage at first. Oh, God loves me as I am. It's almost like when we get saved, now we're on a tryout. Why are we trying to get it together now? It's like, man, God saved me. But man, I've been a Christian for three years.
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
Shouldn't I be over some of this stuff? Oh, OK, let me get this straight. So God accepted you as you were at the cross. But now that you're in, hey, time to shape up. Come on, man. Like clock is ticking. You got about two more fails before you are off the Christian team. That's not from heaven. And that's the furthest thing from Jesus. That's not how he led. That's not how he lived.
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
We went to a church when I was in high school that I didn't connect with. And that kind of began my my journey of trying to figure it out for myself. And so high school wasn't really a time where I was, I think, following Jesus like I know is possible. And I always knew that, too. I always was conflicted.
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
And that's not what we have evidence of. So how could a whole generation be stricken with bad grace theology that makes you feel worse every day? That's how you know it's not from heaven. Like when it's a godly conviction to get right, there isn't condemnation in it. It's a conviction to say, thank God I'm going to change. Like I had a disagreement with my wife, and we've learned how to frame it.
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
This is this morning, like a couple hours ago. Let's frame this correctly. What a great opportunity to get to know you better. I don't love my response earlier this morning, so I'm sorry for what I said. I could use a different phrase. Man, thank God we're here. It's a frame. It's completely different. Rather than, we're going backwards. We're never going to get this right.
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
Now God gave me all this second opportunity, and I'm messing it up. People really think like that. have been blessed with correct teaching early about what grace is. There are days, yeah, we all struggle with feeling condemned, but for you or anybody watching that constantly feels that there's a fundamental thing that you get to go look at and explore and find freedom in. Because if you are saved,
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
And God has forgiven you and called you and equipped you. If you're spending a lot of time feeling bad about yourself, something's wrong and you are in line for some beautiful freedom. Because the first thing the gospel should do is change your life.
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
yours mine so that means everything i'm trying to get other people to do i have to do it here first so if i'm going to speak kindly hey man you should speak kindly to yourself what's going to start here first we forget about us a lot and we think that's noble christianity is not about you it's absolutely about you are you kidding me god saved you so it's about you so what are you doing here first so for me it's like i want to wake up in the morning and say hey
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
Good to see you, man of God. You are saved, equipped, forgiven, positive, healthy, healing, hopeful. You're going to have a great day. God is with you. You're doing better than you think you are. Ephesians 3.20 matters for you. Carl in the mirror. Every day is a new day. His mercies are new every morning. How on earth am I going to go tell somebody else that if I skip meat?
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
It doesn't make any sense. It weakens what I'm actually saying. So I've had to relearn that in this chapter of my life, and I will never unlearn it because that's everything. So when you feel unkind to yourself, you immediately know this is not from heaven. And you can hear some weird preacher online right now, if you want, telling you you should feel like that. They don't know God's grace.
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
And then I ended up going to college at North Carolina State in Raleigh, North Carolina, play basketball there and. I loved it. I had achieved and realized a dream that was way out of my depth. Like I was not good enough to be there, but I worked really hard and teams always can use that. So I was able to find myself in a position where my eyes opened. And in that moment in college,
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
They don't know it. So you just gotta be careful in this day and age that you don't plug into the wrong matrix. Because before you know it, you've watched an algorithm filled with people who don't know what they're talking about. And now you've inherited that, man, maybe I should feel harder and harsher on myself. If I was really a Christian, I'd feel the condemn, like what are we talking about?
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
It's the good news for a reason. So I like the idea of you handling your struggles with more grace first.
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
It's not like God's like, hey, guys, you see Bryce down there? He's doing it again. I thought we had like a legion of angels are supposed to surround him. How could he be doing? It's I think the posture of heaven when we struggle is one of this is going to be a beautiful thing to grow through. And we have biblical evidence of that. That's how God operates.
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
So you will never see anybody go through a trial, you know, and not have an opportunity for God to redeem it.
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
Yeah, that exactly that. That's the, that's the process. So I have an issue. Let's say I have, um, let's take something that's common. Someone has a pornography habit in addiction. Okay. So the first thing you do is say, thank God I'm equipped to get through this and not let this steal any of my joy or any of my peace. I immediately need to involve somebody else.
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
And accountability is wildly overrated. If the person lies to themselves, accountability is only as good as I'm honest. So I can meet with you every morning. Like I'm accountable. I had pure thoughts last night. Haven't looked at my computer, like, but I'm lying to myself. This is a waste of time.
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
I've already been honest with myself. I've already been honest with God. So now I can sit across from you and say, all right, Bryce, here's the truth. You know, this week had some huge misses in this area. And here's what I'm going to do about it. What do you see? How can you help me? Let's go with this plan. It's a plan of attack. It's not a plan of surrender. And I think there's a lot to that.
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
So for me, if you find something in your life, I immediately flip it. So if someone's like, I really struggle with negative thoughts. OK, cool. From this second on, let's think about how beautiful our mind is and how much power God's given us to renew our mind. Let's never think of it like that again. I struggle with bad thoughts. Okay.
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
Well, that entire strain of thinking will be defeated just like that. You'll be defeated. You'll be, you know, somebody who's kind of down a lot. But if you immediately switch and go, I have the power, Bryce, to think clear. And that's what I'm going to fight for. Here's how I'm going to do it. Negative thoughts doesn't even get in the sentence. Doesn't even get in your paragraph.
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
So it's a lot of... I think real, the essence of our faith is here. We look at kind of the actions of it and kind of what happens outside. And that's important. But Jesus was always looking at people's brains. Yeah. Always. And that's why even the essence of salvation is a brain move. Whoa. repent. That's a brain decision. Romans 12, renew your mind. That's a brain decision.
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
This is before helping people. This is before helping the needy. This is before evangelism. Renew your mind. Do not be conformed to the patterns of this world. Renew your mind. There's no action here. This is all thinking correctly. So there's so much power in that and so much freedom that if you can think right, you can be right. And when you're being right, you do right.
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
There's a lot of people who try to fix the doing and they never get around to the being. And that's why it's hollow Christian work if it's not really who you are.
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
You should be encouraged, bro, because you are doing an amazing job. Like, to be able to infiltrate this world, this TikTok insanity that I don't even fully get, and to be somebody who's bold about your faith, bro, I hope you're proud of yourself. Oh, my gosh. Oh, man. That's a demon. Demon. Well, not for nothing. What was the part of this conversation that was interrupted by that blower?
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
It was like a really rough night. It was my sophomore year and I was at a party and some really bad things were going down at this party. And I remember distinctly feeling if I participate in this, I might lose my soul. Like I might, I don't know if I can ever, cause at this point I'm still kind of like, I'm trying to do the right thing. And you know,
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
Yeah. Wow. straight encouragement to you. That's not by chance. I'll bet you there's a fee. So that's how you know, okay, there's an avenue of your heart that needs encouragement from heaven and from the right people. And if you get that right, you're gonna be a problem.
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
So even in this offhand moment, just taking one second just to put the spotlight on you and how great you're doing and a random lawn blower.
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
invade your house and your dog has a spaz like yeah sometimes I mean I'm not super spooky but I'm always looking around going was that uh no I think that uh that is a failed attempt and we're gonna flip it and make it a actually that confirms part of your calling is to be encouraged and to encourage other people wow yeah dang
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
Yeah. Though I like, I mean, there is a strain of thought that says basically if the Bible is not super clear on something, it's probably because there's ample evidence around it. So it's almost like the implication is like you should be able to date effectively if you're doing these seven things that God's already pointed out. And yeah, it's confusing.
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
So one suggestion or submission I would make to you is to maybe rethink. I can only take advice from a certain type of person, period. Just maybe, maybe kick that around a little bit because the older you get, and this is funny, bro, about life. When you're younger, you do have particular people that you listen to, but the older you get, it's like, are you winning at all? Can I steal your idea?
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
It's like that old adage where when you're younger, you see somebody that has the same outfit on. It's like, man, I hate that guy. But when you're older, you're like, hey, friends for life. What a great choice. You know, like what changed at your age? So I would say keep your mind open for any truth. that impacts your life in a positive way.
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
So if it's somebody who, because if that's, if you have like a gatekeeping mentality of like, if you're not married, I can't listen to you. Although I think it's super wise to listen to married people the most. I also find really high value sometimes in messages that come from messengers I might not, get it. And sometimes that's more about me than them.
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
and falling on my face all the time and just kind of just had God adjacent views. And I just remember going, I can't I can't do this. And I left that party, went home, and my parents took me to a church in Virginia Beach, Virginia, and a guy named Steve Kelly was preaching. He's still there. And I'd never heard the gospel presented in that way at the end. And I've heard the gospel a lot.
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
So just as a principle in life, I like to maybe put a comma instead of a period there. Cause I, I mainly take advice from people who are married for these seven reasons, but I'm so open and humble that, Hey, if this fricking random dude over here on this alleyway in Van Nuys has one good thought, I'm so desperate to grow. I'll take it.
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
So I think when it comes to dating, I'll give you the, what I think is the most important advice for any young man. Um, How much work are you spending? How much time are you spending on making yourself better? Because if you're healthy, your relationship will always reflect it. So sometimes we'll skip over ourselves again. I got to make my relationship better. I got to be a better boyfriend.
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
Sure, maybe. And you tell me what kind of Bryce is a dangerous problem to have. the guy who is really secure, overflowing with joy, disciplined, filled with grace, and that guy walks out of his house, what kind of boyfriend would he be? Probably the best boyfriend on the planet. Of all time.
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
Conversely, you wake up, brush your teeth, you take a shower, you go outside, you go buy flowers for her, and you go work on the seven things that you're not great at, and you're trying to read her love languages, trying to make sure you understand her, and who's that guy? Well, okay, probably a good guy, but the first one sounds very appealing to me.
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
So even with my daughters, when they're dating, I'm always having them check that guy's self-care routine. I don't care about the other stuff. I don't care about if he's being handsome. I don't care if he's funny. I don't care if he's cool. Is he open to therapy? Does he have someone he confides in? Is he vulnerable with his weaknesses?
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
And although that can seem a little bit mature, I understand everybody's age is different, but I do believe the call that I see God doing is trying to get people to mature faster. So it's not shocking to me. I'm sitting across from a 21-year-old guy who has depth beyond your years. But I think with your girlfriend, anybody you're dating, first question to ask is, am I mature? Am I helping myself?
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
Because if I can't lead myself, how on earth am I going to try to help lead another person? So once you get that rhythm, then you can just, you know, the overflow of who you are, it's going to make you a really compelling person to date. And if it doesn't go the distance, you walk away with two healthy people. That's how you know somebody was working on themselves.
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
And when you see people have relational breakdowns and they're shattered for months after, it's typically because they've had sex, firstly. And they haven't understood the deep consequences of what that can mean physically. And then somebody wasn't healthy. So now the breakup was just hard. Like the most beautiful testament to a Christian relationship is when people have deep love, deep feelings.
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
They don't decide to go on a future chapter together, but they both look at each other and say, you made me better. Yes, there was some heartbreak and I'm sad, but the impact you had on me was I became a better person.
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
And I think if that's your goal as a as a boyfriend, you're either going to find the woman of your dreams and get married or you're going to help somebody down the road that you don't know invest in this beautiful person that God did not entrust to you. That's a beautiful place to be.
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
And so I look at you and just go, man, for you to spend a lot of time watering your own soul, I think it makes relationships better. And there's some cool things you can do in a relationship, but the first foundational block is how are you? If you love yourself, very, very easy to love somebody else.
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
But when I talk to young men that are very insecure and they hate themselves and they have hidden habits and I see them date, I'm like, what do you think you're going to produce for this girl? You don't even love yourself. You don't even know that God's forgiving you, but yet you're going to, you know, they become controlling, mean, manipulative, abusive at times, domineering.
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
But the way that he did it just compelled me to go. I want to make a decision to change my life and do this. And I did. I raised my hand, walk up to that altar and it began significant changes. And I went back to NC State and realized I can't be here. Like I'm not going to make it if I stay. I want to I want to begin this new journey. Went home and then ended up going to my dad.
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
And that's all a projection of who they are. So anytime, like I just tell my daughters, like,
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
we just stay away from guys like that because we know right away they haven't got the memo that how they treat themselves is how they're going to treat you so if you see a guy who sleeps in all the time and he has no discipline and he's cool but he doesn't go to class okay cool what does that say about him don't make a judgment just make an observation and that's how you start to see who's who and you see this other guy he might not be have the coolest outfit on but he's early to every class he's always kind of got that bouncy weird joy
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
And he always does what he says. I'll take my chances with the guy who doesn't have cool pants over the guy who looks so cool, but he's kind of not all there when it comes to the mental awareness lights. Yeah, I think that's what I'm looking for. So you keep watering your soul, my brother, and you're going to be an unstoppable force.
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
It is my honor. It is my absolute honor. And I'm going to keep praying that God lights your way up, makes it so bright that you will never fear missing it because that's what's in your future, bro. You're going to do things that even shock you. And I'll be able to say, yeah, I sat down on that guy's couch yesterday. in Van Nuys. I knew him before you knew him.
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
You're going to have that kind of life where people are going to want to be around you. But it's an honor, man. So keep doing what you're doing. And you got friends in Tulsa, Oklahoma, if you need them. Thank you. Yeah. So thank you for having me.
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
Hey, I want to go study the Bible because I'm like you. I'm a I'm a theology nerd. And I was like, I want to figure this out for myself, because if I'm going to commit my life to this Bible that I don't really believe is. necessarily at this point all true. I want to see this for myself. And that began my discovery journey of just trying to figure out what this faith is for me.
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
Because I don't feel like God can move in an environment with visible tattoos.
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
Come out here to California to Church on the Way, which at the time had a really cool seminary. It might still be going called King's College and started my little Bible college journey and got a job here in L.A., worked at Gucci, Rodeo Drive. I lived in a house in Van Nuys and took my little Honda Shadow motorcycle to
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
through laurel canyon to rodeo drive every day it's my first real experience as a christian was working with all um gay people i didn't even know that you know most christians don't have access or contact with people that don't believe like them at this point i'm 20 i'm like if you're breathing and moving you're a candidate for this good news yeah i loved it like my so that's why i learned quickly on my feet how to explain what i believe to people that were already like
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
No, I'm joking. Even the dog knew I was joking. He was barking. You looked at me so sincerely like, oh, my gosh. Amazing, amazing work. I love it.
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
Oh, here's this young Christian dude. I'm like, hey, I don't know why you feel like that, but this is what I know. And so all of my initial relationships were with people really far from God in their mind. And then I heard about Hillsong and ended up going over there to go to a conference and check it out. Loved it.
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
And then went back and stayed for four years and met my best friends there, met my wife there. Kind of felt compelled to continue to look at ministry as something that could be for my life. And left till song went back to Virginia Beach. We did young adult ministry for like, you know, seven, eight years there. Took a little tiny little thing to something that became really awesome.
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
And that's when we started realizing, you know, there's something special about all of us. Like you have a special call.
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
everybody listening has a special call and once you give that to God it's amazing what can happen with it we realize that about us like we have you know we're not like supernaturally gifted or anointed but we're like everybody if we plant our feet God will bless us you know use us and so we started seeing that in Virginia and then at that time Joel Houston who's a phenomenal songwriter he he said meet me in New York I'm up here doing some stuff and I met him up there and he was like
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
my dad wants to do a church in in america and i'm like where he's like let's do it here in new york and i was like well nobody else should do that but me and you because we know so much like you know early 30s and uh but we were genuinely like man that's a once-in-a-lifetime shot let's go to the the city of church graveyards where apparently nobody wants any piece of this
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
And let's give it a shot. And so we took our little family. We moved to Brooklyn, New York and started pastoring Hillsong, New York City. And as it grew, you know, our life changed a lot as as as it does with kids. And I loved it all. I love being a part of it. I love what God was doing. We saw hundreds of thousands of people get saved, hundreds of thousands every year.
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
Like it was it's a real move of God. And throughout that time, I had some stuff that was broken in me. And I didn't know what I know today, which is if there is a crack in your armor, if there is a hidden habit or struggle that you face. and you don't bring it out for somebody to help you wade through, it's not gonna go anywhere. So I got saved and I had a crazy past.
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
Not crazy, I think I just, I live like a lot of young guys do who don't know Jesus. You like girls, you have sex when you can, and you party. And what that does, what you don't realize is as you step into a new phase of life, Jesus forgives you, saves you, cleanses you, empowers you. And the consequence of your sin, eternity is off the table, but you still have to pay for what you did to a degree.
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
So for instance, if you had a lot of sex, you're going to have to fix some of your wiring. You're going to have to retrain your mind. You're going to have to get specific help for that. In that time, you know, decades ago, we weren't looking at stuff like that. And so I just kind of trucked through. And, you know, when I found myself in New York at the end of our time there, I
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
You know, it just was, I was in trouble. I was broken and I was hurting and I was really, really, really scared. And God graciously saved my life again. And some people can call it an explosion, a scandal, a fall from grace, whatever they want to do. Nobody matters when it comes to your story, except for you. That's one thing I've learned in this. I get to frame my own story.
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
So you can call it what you want, but you don't live my life. So my story about my life is that God saved me again. And had he not done that, I definitely wouldn't be sitting in Van Nuys with you today, with a smile on my face and a family at home that is together. health in my in my mind so it's been a journey bro and I some of the pain I didn't have to go through, but I did.
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
And what you find is that God can use it all. Absolutely. So to spend any time looking back in regret, it's the most fruitless human emotion we have is regret. So I don't look back. There are times I look back and I can feel sad, but I'm able to frame it correctly again, which is, you know, thank God I learned. And there's going to be stuff that's always going to be sad.
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
That's the thing about decisions. But Overall, I look at the collective story that God's helping me write about my life. And, you know, it's been an exciting journey.
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
Yeah. We, at that time, man, like Instagram, it just kind of started being Instagram and we didn't have a whole lot of money to market anything. So we were just like, we're just going to do this super hood style. We're going to, we're going to use Instagram and we're going to get the word out, you know, on the streets.
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
And so it was a, it was a cool time to just use what we had at hand, but yeah, it ended up becoming a lot of the stuff that we were doing. A lot of people kind of, followed and copied and used as a, as a mold. And in some ways it was great because you don't need, you're, you're a great example of that too. If you have, if you have the right stuff here, you'll got to find a way to, to amplify it.
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
And, uh, but yeah, I mean, it was, uh, it was a, it was a cool time. I think you're, you're really kind and mature for how old are you? 21. So yeah, to look at somebody and say, I see you as my brother, I think what you find as you get older on this journey, a couple things. One, people's response to your story says more about them than you sometimes.
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
So if you have a story and your reaction is horror, It's like interesting. So if I'm settled in my soul and I'm filled with grace and, you know, I'm steady on my own two feet, you can tell me something today. Hopefully my reaction would show where I'm at, which is, man, I'm here for you. You're not going to scare me. I'm going to run from you. It's not going to. But for me to be.
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
you know, appalled and to shun and to judge, we've learned that often those people are a hiding very similar stuff. They're pointing out in your life. And then two, they just haven't dealt with it. And, and why would my story create this in you? It's a question for that person. So I think it's a, it's a very interesting thing you find for me.
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
It does need to be said because I'm a pastor, the standard is higher. Right. And there is there is healthy accountability that when somebody who has my platform for me to make the mistakes I did. Yeah, I need to be held accountable. And I was that's not what we're referring to. We're kind of looking at the underbelly of what can become judgment.
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
But if you have a big stage and profile, it comes with it. So I wasn't surprised. You know, as our platform grew, I knew, you know, the people who are around and the people that love you, it can turn on a dime. And yeah, that happened in some regard. So I went from being somebody who a lot of people loved to somebody who was really easy to throw stones at. And I put myself in that position. Yeah.
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
I mean, it's a journey. You learn how to manage it, I think. I mean, what we know now about mental health is so huge for ministers, for pastors.
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
It's part of my passion moving forward to make sure that, you know, guys who are behind me, even age-wise and even not, even guys who are my age and beyond, there's still some of these principles, but learning how to create boundaries, learning how to protect yourself, learning...
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
How to not be a codependent Christian leader because codependency can be a real weakness is when you try to manage other people's expectations and control their emotions. It's really close to empathy and kindness.
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
So empathy and kindness, if you don't know how to regulate it turns into major codependence where you end up trying to please everybody all the time and I really struggled with that I think. When you're a young pastor, you just want everybody to relax and chill. It's like in a church that gets bigger, the number of people who are unhappy gets bigger.
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
And if you don't have your mind set on what that means, it can throw you. And for me, that was an area I didn't really prepare for. So I felt often like I was...
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
not doing a good enough job for somebody every day so you have a great sunday and there'd be one person hey i you know i had a bad experience with this volunteer okay and there'd be another person hey we don't have anything for young moms in in in the bronx yeah we don't that sucks hey we need to have a youth ministry that meets in every borough yeah the list goes on and if you don't know how to frame it right that stuff will eat away at you because that's also part of the job is managing that so i didn't pressure is the wrong word i think um
The Bryce Crawford Podcast
Conversation With Carl Lentz (EP 79)
Pressure comes from when you kind of don't understand where the power comes from. I've never mistaken that. I mean, as a minister, you know quickly, oh my gosh, this is all God using broken people. I do not have the ability to communicate a perfect sermon about a perfect God and a perfect gospel being imperfect. I don't have the goods. And then you watch God show up time and time again.
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NASA Is Listening...To TCB?!
We've been really quiet for the most part. We did do the Hulu documentary.
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NASA Is Listening...To TCB?!
Which is hard. That was hard for you because your natural, your personality is to fight. It's to protect. It's to justify. It's to do all of that. So this was really a hard thing for you to do. I was okay because I'm like, I just wanted to hide. So you also said you were in trouble. You were in big, deep trouble. Can you explain that a little bit more?
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NASA Is Listening...To TCB?!
Because for some people, they're probably like, what does that mean?
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NASA Is Listening...To TCB?!
We've been really quiet for the most part. We did do the Hulu documentary.
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NASA Is Listening...To TCB?!
Do you regret doing that? Would you have changed it in terms of like feeling like we were maybe a bit too soon or like shouldn't have said anything? I don't know. What do you think?
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TCB Classic: Hey Girl, It's Me...Carl!
A red leather jacket. Dating advice. You ready for this? Find somebody who is occupying their street, not watching you occupy yours. I have no idea what that means, but it sounds good to me. Holler back at a player if you see him in the street. What?
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TCB Classic: Hey Girl, It's Me...Carl!
You make this rather snappy, won't you? I have some really heavy thinking to do before 10 o'clock.
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TCB Classic: Hey Girl, It's Me...Carl!
Find somebody who's occupying their street, not somebody watching you occupy yours. I have a belief with my daughters. My daughter's like, Dad, when is it going to be a good time to date? I'm like, never, girl. You're going to live here until you're 70. Why? Because I am also sleeping with a lot of young women.
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TCB Classic: Hey Girl, It's Me...Carl!
But I think dating, for the most part, is worthless and useless.
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TCB Classic: Hey Girl, It's Me...Carl!
Do something about it. That's the first thing. So if you're occupying your street and you're doing great things, if you're in high school, for instance, I don't know who you're dating and what you're doing because that guy you're dating, he ain't got no job. He has nothing to offer you just yet. I think it's a good idea to occupy you.
The Commercial Break
TCB Classic: Hey Girl, It's Me...Carl!
Hey, what's up, girl? It's me, Carl. Shit, me and the Lord just rolling down the street, my 5-0, you know what I'm talking about? Listen, I was thinking about you. I got my little Lord here. I got my walking staff, and we're going through the desert, 40 days, 40 nights. I got a little trouble for sending those pictures out, reply all.
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TCB Classic: Hey Girl, It's Me...Carl!
going to check out, see what's going on. I'm going to bring some security over. We're going to lock you down. Lock it down like we did last night. You know what I'm talking about, girl? Do me a favor. Don't tell anybody about this. I'm going to put it on video and send it to you, but don't tell anybody about it.
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TCB Classic: Hey Girl, It's Me...Carl!
I'm with the Lord. The Lord walks with me. I'm walking with the Lord, my Savior. Remember that song, that girl singing Oceans, 435 billion views? I wrote that for you, girl. Girl. Girl. It's me, Carl. It's Big Lance and Little Lance.
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TCB Classic: Hey Girl, It's Me...Carl!
Can I get an amen? Listen, do me a favor. Don't post this one on Instagram like you did last time. Appreciate it, girl. The NDA I had you sign? Don't worry about it, girl.
The Commercial Break
TCB Classic: Hey Girl, It's Me...Carl!
Thanks. I appreciate it, girl. I got to go. Talk to you later. This is me, Mr. Carl. Talk to you later.
The Commercial Break
TCB Classic: Hey Girl, It's Me...Carl!
Hey, boo, it's Carl. It's Carl Lentz. Hey, could you shut up for the Lord? I'd appreciate it. Thanks, girl. Thanks, girl. Could you chill out for the Lord? I'd appreciate it. You know, there's doggy heaven, too.
The Commercial Break
TCB Classic: Hey Girl, It's Me...Carl!
Arn! Hey, girl. I was just wondering if you wanted to go to Arn with me tomorrow night. I don't have a job anymore. I figured you've got some free time on your hands. What's up, girl? You want to go to Arn with me?
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TCB Classic: Hey Girl, It's Me...Carl!
I think maybe we need to learn a little bit more about the scripture.
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TCB Classic: Hey Girl, It's Me...Carl!
Hey, girl. Speaking of your birthday. Speaking of your birthday, what you doing? What you doing next Tuesday?
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TCB Classic: Hey Girl, It's Me...Carl!
Thanks, girl. It's me, Carl. Big Carl, little Carl. Ow.
The Commercial Break
Now I'm a Belieber! (The Return Of Carl Lentz)
In case you're just clicking on this and you don't have any idea about my life. Already with the music.
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Now I'm a Belieber! (The Return Of Carl Lentz)
Okay. All right. He's going to keep it interesting. He knows how to produce a video. He does. My wife, Laura, the Lentz family, we have been out of the public life in sphere.
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Now I'm a Belieber! (The Return Of Carl Lentz)
My maid. Yeah. For a couple of years now. Actually, it's moving on about four years. And we went through some things. Because that's an important thing to get across.
The Commercial Break
Now I'm a Belieber! (The Return Of Carl Lentz)
Don't. But we're going to use everything we've been through to hopefully bring some new life and some new hope to people. And what you're going to see on these first couple episodes, especially this first one, you're going to see a couple that is healed and healing. And it hadn't been the case always for us.
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Now I'm a Belieber! (The Return Of Carl Lentz)
We haven't been at a place where we've been able to talk about our own life and our own pain. And we are now. So when you see us going through this story.
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Now I'm a Belieber! (The Return Of Carl Lentz)
Yep. We're looking to the future. Cannot wait to talk about other things, but it's irresponsible for us not to talk about what happened because it was so public. And I think it's fair to be able to open it up and allow people to take from it what they can. So in this first episode, we're going to answer some questions.
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Now I'm a Belieber! (The Return Of Carl Lentz)
Hope with this whole thing is that you can look at what's happened in our life and maybe you can recognize a little bit of your story in ours and together we can all grow. So the future of the podcast is going to be me bringing on people that I love, that have changed my life, that have helped me heal, that are helping me heal. And that's the future. But the right, including four-time ABN winner
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Now I'm a Belieber! (The Return Of Carl Lentz)
We'll have, like, why has it taken us so long to talk? Why is Laura still married to me? Who's at fault? We handle some of the real hard questions. Why is Bieber acting crazy?
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Now I'm a Belieber! (The Return Of Carl Lentz)
Hope with this whole thing is that you can look at what's happened in our life and maybe you can recognize a little bit of your story in ours and together we can all grow. So the future of the podcast is going to be me bringing on people that I love, that have changed my life, that have helped me heal, that are helping me heal. And that's the future.
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Now I'm a Belieber! (The Return Of Carl Lentz)
Now, this is our story. So for those of you that are brand new to this, we used to be a ministry. I made some mistakes that cost us a lot.
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Now I'm a Belieber! (The Return Of Carl Lentz)
And we talk about it all. Not everything.
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Now I'm a Belieber! (The Return Of Carl Lentz)
And now we're here. We're in this space. And I'm really excited about it. So thank you. Which is a 5,000 square foot beautiful home overlooking Napa Valley.
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Now I'm a Belieber! (The Return Of Carl Lentz)
For checking it out. Episode one. Hope you enjoy it. B-side.
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Now I'm a Belieber! (The Return Of Carl Lentz)
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
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Now I'm a Belieber! (The Return Of Carl Lentz)
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Now I'm a Belieber! (The Return Of Carl Lentz)
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Now I'm a Belieber! (The Return Of Carl Lentz)
Never to be heard from again. And so we're going to do that. We're just going to go question for question and see where we go. With the hopes that people will be able to look into. You're going to take questions? Why didn't you let us know ahead of time?
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Now I'm a Belieber! (The Return Of Carl Lentz)
this thing and go, I can glean from that. I won't do that. And that's our story as we know it. So whatever you want to say, whatever you want to ask, shoot for the stars.
The Commercial Break
Now I'm a Belieber! (The Return Of Carl Lentz)
Have you found, I think this is interesting. There's no way it can't. There's no way it can't. I'm too important. Yeah. I'm too important. I think too much of myself. What a marriage breakdown and a church breakdown looks like from a different side. And I think I would never have known.
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Now I'm a Belieber! (The Return Of Carl Lentz)
What I feel like I know now about it, how lonely it is, how hard it is, how and we've seen people reach out that have just been through so much stuff and they've just been out there floating around.
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Now I'm a Belieber! (The Return Of Carl Lentz)
We had amazing friends that stepped up and helped us, but that's not the case for a lot of people. We had some support systems with our family. That's not the case with a lot of people. And you just don't know what to do. And so I look forward to that changing. We can be a part of that. And people are in marriage situations where you feel lonely and you feel like you can't get through it.
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Now I'm a Belieber! (The Return Of Carl Lentz)
belong to talk because we had a bigger priority which was to save our family.
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Now I'm a Belieber! (The Return Of Carl Lentz)
More accurately, for me to save my own life and then work to try to save our marriage and then work to try to save our family. And very difficult because my instinct is to go to war immediately. Save my own life?
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Now I'm a Belieber! (The Return Of Carl Lentz)
give context, give clarity. And the way all that went down, we had to make a choice right up front, which way are we going to handle this chapter? And for me and you, I think the best advice that we got was you cannot, for me, you cannot save face. and save your life at the same time. I remember hearing that going, well, that doesn't work for me because I want to salvage my reputation.
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Now I'm a Belieber! (The Return Of Carl Lentz)
I want to tell people what happened. I want to do all this stuff.
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Now I'm a Belieber! (The Return Of Carl Lentz)
Cartoon Mickey, what was his name?
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Now I'm a Belieber! (The Return Of Carl Lentz)
Cowboy Ken, there you go. And I need to get in a place of healing because I am in deep, deep trouble. And I really chose... That's an understatement. Healing... over reputation protection. It's very difficult. It wasn't easy.
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Now I'm a Belieber! (The Return Of Carl Lentz)
God, the better it got. It didn't mean the voices ever went away or you could see things out of the corner of your eye or hear stories or see... Things being spun. But once you make that choice to go, I don't really care. At the end of the day, there's nothing to salvage here. People are going to think what they're going to think. All I care about is trying to save what matters.
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Now I'm a Belieber! (The Return Of Carl Lentz)
All I care about is trying to save this family.
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Now I'm a Belieber! (The Return Of Carl Lentz)
I was in really, really, really deep, deep trouble. And I remember immediately thinking that this is going to be a different road. The night that all that stuff went down, or the day after at least, we were staying at a friend's house because we had sold our house. In New York. In New York. New Jersey.
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Now I'm a Belieber! (The Return Of Carl Lentz)
Yeah, and staying in a friend's house in Brooklyn, and they graciously let us use their apartment. And when all this stuff went down, we were obviously just shell-shocked, reeling. Why were you shell-shocked? You knew the whole time.
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Now I'm a Belieber! (The Return Of Carl Lentz)
Yeah. It makes me feel weird to even talk about it. But then I got a call from the person who lives there. And he said, basically, I want, you know, somebody that worked for him. He said, you guys have to leave because the owner of this place does not want to be associated with you.
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Now I'm a Belieber! (The Return Of Carl Lentz)
Like, where does he want us to go? He's like, doesn't care. He wants you out within a couple of hours. And we are, all of our stuff's here. Our kids are here. There's, you know, some photographers and reporters around taking photos. And all this stuff is flying around. And our kids are like, what's going on? I remember we had to take everything we have in this apartment. Daddy, did you cheat?
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Now I'm a Belieber! (The Return Of Carl Lentz)
Late at night. In Brooklyn. And then we got a U-Haul and a U-Haul van. And we're just throwing stuff in there. And our kids still don't really know what's going on. And we're just, you know, I'm in like a weird comatose trance mode of just don't even know where I am. You're trying to survive.
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Now I'm a Belieber! (The Return Of Carl Lentz)
And me and Roman were in the U-Haul and we just started driving.
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Now I'm a Belieber! (The Return Of Carl Lentz)
We started driving. I remember getting on the highway, pulling out of, you know, Williamsburg, Brooklyn. And I just remember thinking, like, what are we doing? Where are we going to go? And Roman's next to me. He's my little guy still. He's, Dad, what are we doing? Why don't we have anywhere to go? And I couldn't get a hold of anybody at that point.
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Now I'm a Belieber! (The Return Of Carl Lentz)
I don't know. You know, you can rent a home overnight almost. A lot of people were kind of going to, Handle this however way they're going to handle it. And we finally found our friend, Kim Clark, who said, come and stay with us in Connecticut. And our first couple nights, we really felt like, man, the whole world has ended. You know, we have been. It was COVID as well. It's COVID. It's so weird.
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Now I'm a Belieber! (The Return Of Carl Lentz)
We have no idea which way is up right now. We're in trouble. And that was one of those nights I'll never forget. I'll never forget sitting in that car. Yeah, I bet.
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Now I'm a Belieber! (The Return Of Carl Lentz)
That's right. belongings in two U-Hauls going like, what, how did I get here? Like, is this real life? And that's, that's why I've been caught.