Carl Lentz
Appearances
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
So the way I frame it is what am I going to do with that scoreboard that I see? I choose not to activate it because to say you don't see it, for me, that's not honest. I've seen other people, maybe they're more healthy than me, but I do see it. I am human. And I do sometimes feel like hey, you owe me, but that's not right.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
So rather than push or resist or act like that thought's not real, I bring that sucker out and I look at it and I say, no, we're not doing that.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
Yeah, blue blockers are still cool. The yellow ones are even cooler, like the night vision rifle glasses.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
These are really good questions, by the way. I'll point to a friend and in many ways a mentor to me. His name is Jason Jaggard. He runs Novus Global, which is a coaching firm. And I learned so much from these guys that it's just I can't even articulate it. And I would submit to any boss or anybody at a high level.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
Most of my life now I spend with executive coaching, dealing with people who are running companies. And the situations are the same across humanity, but the weight is different. That's all you find. And so in a situation like this, I often tell a boss, this is a beautiful way to go about it. I broke your trust by doing this. I'm sorry, forgive me.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
Please let me know the impact that my actions had on you so I can seek to make it right. Who's rejecting that? And then they have to trust that there is room to talk about the impact. Okay, you did this and now I don't know if I can ever trust you. I hear that. And then you operate from there and you get a chance to amend it.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
But this clears up the room for everybody because the impact's not the same. Like my trust break didn't impact you, Minda, the same way it impacted somebody in our church in Manhattan or somebody that was a part of our church in Jersey. So I can't just be like, I'm sorry. You were disappointed that I was a pastor. No, that's not even why that person was hurt.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
So to be able to look at somebody, especially if it's a team that you lead and say, let me know what the impact of my action had on you and we can build from there. That takes a humble, powerful person to be able to do that. And that's why most people don't do it. So they try to almost arrogantly rise above it, like people should get over it.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
We don't have the right to control people's response to our bad decisions. They're owed the dignity of that process. So that would be my humble submission is some sort of version of that. I've just seen it work 100 times out of 100. So someone can reject it, but I'm also saying it's undefeated.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
It works. It works in every facet of life. You can take that and do it for any break of commitment. The same mechanism works. Roman, my son, I told you we were going to go play ball at 7. I'm here at 7.30. I broke my word. Will you forgive me? And will you tell me the impact that's had on you, if there has been any, so I can seek to make that right?
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
Sometimes my kids will cut me off now in the middle. I'm fine. I'm fine. No impact, Dad. But the principle is making sure that you understand that I am sorry and I don't disrespect you so much that I just act like your schedule wasn't changed. There's nothing worse than someone showing up late for a meeting and they act like it was your fault that you came to the meeting they asked you to be at.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
Sorry I'm late. I got so much on. It has nothing to do with me. You're late.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
So honesty will do that to you. The honesty will make it clear really quick.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
Yes. So for your amazing listeners, I haven't seen these. I wanted to make sure that this is honest. I just have to decide, do I want to answer these with my broken self or my healing self? Because they're two different words. So some days I'll have days where I'll answer this for real. But no, I'm joking. Shoot. I'm going to give you my best answer. My most honest.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
Everybody needs them and they're not second chances. There need to be 2 million. Chances in general are needed.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
Can make or break those around that leader.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
The opposite is death and zero.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
Something that I'll embrace the rest of my life.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
concrete power beautiful see i would add you to game night carl you did that makes me that i received that because i like to be a valuable member at game nights we play banana grams we play other games and i do like to be at the elite level of those games minda are you a scrabble person no but i'm a banana grams person so i like i prefer banana grams over scrabble
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
Maybe there's not a balance. Maybe it's only acceptance and boundaries. Because what can I accept? So if I'm able to give you part of the truth and be kind of nice and I can accept that, Then that's my boundary. But if I look at you and I have something I really feel like I need to say, but I don't want to say it because I don't want to hurt you.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
I can't accept you continuing to do what you're doing. So I've got to say it either way. So for me, it's all about what can I accept? I don't mean that callously, but I don't care enough about you to really get into the nitty gritty. I accept that. But sometimes nice comments. Yeah, nice is a shield. But I think that the nicest thing we can do sometimes is to be honest.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
So I always challenge somebody's definition of even that word. But again, it comes back to the same thing. What can you accept? So being nice is producing someone's continual dysfunctional behavior towards you. You're accepting that. I don't know if you've chosen that, but you're accepting. For me, there are some things I cannot accept. So I'm going to have to not be nice.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
I can't accept the way you're talking to me. So I'm going to have to lay this down. And your feelings are not my problem. You're a grown adult. You got to manage those. I need to be honest. And it's a simple life.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
I think trust. surprises me about trust. To me, trust is always coupled with being vulnerable. So I think I didn't realize that when I'm not walking in truth and trust and vulnerability, there is an area of me that's hindered. And I think if you need like a word, I don't know if you've ever been in a hospital and those gowns they put you in, they're not very stable. Okay.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
So you take one wrong turn and And you could have someone get a view that you're not comfortable with. So you might be having a conversation, but inside you feel a little bit tentative. That to me is what it's like to live a life that doesn't have trust, doesn't have honesty.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
You could be present to a degree and you're there, but you'll never know what it feels like to have a sweater on and some pants and stand there in full confidence. Whenever I talk to people who have trust issues, I'm like, you don't really have a trust issue. You have a freedom issue. That's what's really going on here.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
So once you frame it like that, oh, my gosh, I better work on my trust stuff because I don't want to live imprisoned by my own lack of anything.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
They don't. When people say stuff like that, I'm like, man, you're really clear and confident in your issues. I'd rather be really clear and confident in my gifting and my strength. So some people are experts in what they don't have. And that's a choice.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
My honest answer is I haven't thought of that because I can't control it. So what gives me hope is the power to be honest. I can control that. So your capacity to forgive and to trust is actually your business. So what gives me joy and a little bit of peace is rather than, I spent a lot of my life way too concerned about other people's feelings and emotions.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
It was one of the things that robbed me the most as a pastor. So on this side of my life, I am not wasting a day on trying to control or wonder or assume your capacity of anything. I want to look over there and be like, how much forgiveness can you give me? How much? And I stop and I go. How much evidence can I give people? You'll show me your capacity through our relationship.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
But my job is to provide you with such a freaking buffet of options that if you don't trust me, that's on you. So I do think to answer the question really simply, I think people's capacity for hope and forgiveness are really big because that's how God created us to be. It's inherent in the life of a human created by a very loving God that we have capacity. We desire forgiveness. We desire peace.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
We desire that. That's why when you have to reconcile with somebody, there's always like this weird hitch in your step. It's because we weren't created to be divided at all. Those are two really wordy answers for your brilliant question. So hopefully somebody can get something from one of those two versions.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
Whatever you're avoiding, there's power behind it. whatever that is. So rather than run from it, especially when it comes to money, by the way, it's why it's funny, a lot of people avoid the budget and the deep thinking and the books because they fear it. So I have learned I can confidently say whatever you fear, there's freedom behind it. So it might be worth staring that thing down.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
Whatever you're avoiding, there's power behind it. It's taken too much from me, so might as well go see what's behind there.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
So excited to be here, Minda. Thank you for having me.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
Yeah, fair question. I think I would phrase that now a little bit differently. I think I would say the behavior and the patterns and the thinking of that part of me, I no longer recognize. Because I realized, I said that and I meant it at the time, I was trying to speak to how different life feels. But technically broken down, I am the same human being, the same person, same man.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
But so much has changed where I look back on some of the things that I used to do and operate with, and I don't recognize that. So I think I am becoming a different person every day. And so now I look at that, and I don't even reject that guy anymore because that's a part of who I was, and it's made me who I am today.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
So I've learned to look at that part of me with kindness and say, I don't do those things anymore. I don't think like that. Without you, I'm not here. And here, a place of health and peace. And that guy is still here, but he operates differently. So that's a more succinct way to say it. But yes, even your semantics around your own growth sometimes change.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
I've said publicly, like, that's the funniest question you hear in the podcast world, because no one's ever asked it before. What would you say to your 16-year-old self? I would have hugged him and been like, you're going to be all right, bro. Because explaining to him the psyche behind addiction and recovery and patterns and sexual trauma, that 16-year-old would have been like, no thanks, bro.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
He wouldn't have listened anyway. So I'm with you. I look back on those days and just the key is kindness in general, kindness to yourself, kindness to other people. And that's what I would give my 16-year-old self, a big hug and a kind glance. It may be an encouraging word, but advice about the stuff that you find out as an older person, I don't know if it even works.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
I think what I would say about transparency now, I wasn't brave enough at the time to out myself and to come clean. So I was caught. And I say that just for someone who's watching who doesn't understand everybody's story. Now, between me and you, I feel like God rescued me and saved me. But for all intents and purposes, we can say I was caught.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
And then on the other side of that, I had a choice, which is do I want to continue to live a life where there's hidden things about me Or do I want to start something fresh? And transparency to me now is about how much freedom do you want to have? So it's not, do I need it, do I not? I like a better question, which is how free do you wanna be?
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
Because anytime you're not transparent, there's gonna be stuff in your life that is disempowering the best parts of you. And as long as you can reckon with that, cool. For me, I was like, I've lived that life. I've lived a life that had compartments, hidden things, shadows, a lot of great things too, but that didn't work out so well for me.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
So moving forward now, transparency, I can say like this, Minda, I used to think transparency was a really important thing. Now I think transparency is a life or death essential thing. That's how I would describe that change.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
Because I'm not going to go through all this pain and not maximize it. So if one of the things coming out of this is telling other people, hey, by the way, you don't ever have to live. dishonest or in shadows or withholding, that's what I'm going to do. One of the beautiful redeeming parts of our story is that I do get to be able to use that as a front facing opening line of transparency.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
You can check out my story. It's right there. You can read about it for false or not. It's there to see. And I can honestly tell you transparency is something that I believe to be vital for sure.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
I think it comes down to, and this will be a thread in the transparency discussion, the better question is, what are you willing to accept? If you're not going to be transparent, what is that going to cost you? And if you can live with that, cool, but don't lie to yourself. So I've got something I need to share. If I don't share it, it will cost me this.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
If I do share it, it's going to cost me that. What can I accept? So that's really what transparency comes down to is like, what do you want to accept? How much peace do you want? How much disempowered area in your life do you want to keep? And that's on you. So that's how I gauge it now. I'm like, okay, price tag of this honesty is going to be this. Yeah, I'm going to pay that.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
Or no, I'm not going to pay that. Because there are times where I'm not going to be transparent with somebody. Because I've accepted the fact that if I do that, it makes me feel unsafe and I don't trust you. So I can accept withholding this part of me until I believe that's real. So I'm choosing that. But as long as I'm in control of it, I have the power.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
If I don't, then my honesty or lack thereof is now dictating how I move. And I don't want to live a life like that.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
As a leader, it takes two major things. It takes time and it takes faith. So it takes time to prove new habits, new thinking, new results. And then it takes faith from the people that are in your world to give you an opportunity to show it. Because neither of these two things you are owed when you break trust.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
Let's just say, if I'm a leader in your life and I broke your trust, it's going to require for us to have a new chapter. I'm going to need time to prove my words are not just words, but I'm also going to need faith from you to give me an opportunity to even show it. If one of those two things isn't in play, it just leads to a really shaky outcome.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
hesitant life towards somebody who's broken trust. That's pretty much in my personal world. If I do begin a relationship with somebody, I'm pretty clear on that. Like, hey, I'm moving forward. Just like I give you time and I give you faith to believe that you're going to be the best version of you. But for me, I'm not on a tryout for you.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
I'm not doing that because that's an expectation I can't meet. I will say that time tells a real story, but I'm going to need faith from you to trust that I'm actually who I say I am. You don't owe me that, but this is going to go a lot better if you give it. So that's on you. But, Minda, the beautiful part is I can't control either of those factors.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
So when it comes to rebuilding, a lot of people look at that as an arduous task. And I always say, you're looking at it from the wrong angle. I cannot control whether you're going to give me time or whether you're going to give me faith. All I can control is living honestly. And I got my hands full with that. And I'll take my chances. So let me cover my side of the tracks as a leader.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
I broke your trust. I've apologized. I've repented. I've changed. That's clear. From here on out, how you handle my life is on you. I can't control it. It's none of my business. My business is, am I honest? Can I stand on this life? And I can, but I can't force or even ask you to believe it. That's on you. If you want what I have to offer, you're going to have to let down your drawbridge.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
And that's on you. I got all day. I'm going to be here. I'm going to be over here building my life. So it's like, whenever that day comes for you, let me know. I'm going to be here.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
A real honest answer is it's taught me a lot. I think once you've decided whether you're going to be in or out of somebody's life after they've broken your trust. All I would tell people is just be clear one way or the other, because it's a real easy judgment to make. That person left me. He left my life. That's not really a fair, healthy way to look at it.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
The right way to look at it is I broke your trust and you made a decision on it. I don't really have the right to judge that. I can have some thoughts. But at least I can say this to the other side of the tracks, because I have been on the other side of the tracks where people have broken my trust. And all I would say is just be as clear as you freaking can.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
Nobody needs your games, your passive aggressive ghosting, your thinly veiled texts that don't really say much, but mean much. Be clear. I don't feel safe. Therefore, I will be vacating your life. That might seem or even be harsh, but that's what I got to do. Great. Thank you. Or the other thing is I'm going to try to make this work. I don't know what that looks like, but let's go forward. Great.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
What didn't help me is people who were wishy-washy and they wouldn't stand on what they were doing. Hey, man, just tell me that you don't ever want to be my friend again. I can handle it. But what you're doing. is leaving everything in limbo. So I think that's my submission to people who are in the middle of a journey like that. Do whatever you feel like you need to do.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
Who cares if someone's going to judge it? But at least have the courage to stand on it. Me and Laura have seen and heard now from so many people that we try to help who are always just astounded at the abandonment. of them in their valley. And we get it in a new way now. And I can firmly say it's a pattern of humanity to just leave people and not talk about it.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
And my kids, their generation is just ghosting. It's just a part of the way you communicate. I'm going to break up with you by just never talking to you for four months. It's horrible. But we do that. Even us, our generation has our own version of that. And so I think that's what I tell people is just be honest. If you can't do it, say it. If you're trying, say it. But don't say nothing.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
That kills people when they're in a valley.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
I'll tell you, Minda, yes, I feel that in my chest. How I found peace with that, even before this journey, was digging in really deep, especially as a pastor, saying, what am I doing this for? What's my expectation? If I go in with an expectation that this will be reciprocal, I'm setting myself up for something.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
Because you really, this isn't like an arrogant thing, but you're not going to be able to reciprocate what a pastor does for you. You don't know how much they pray. You don't know what they're fighting. You don't know what they're doing. And that's the case for a lot of people. But for me, that part of the journey wasn't as hard. It doesn't mean I didn't have days of, really?
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
You're going to abandon me. And I freaking be like that finger does come out some days. But when I'm my best self, I go, it would be nice if you return some of that gracious favor I gave you. But I didn't do what I did for you. Someday I could be like, hey, I did it because it was right.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
And if that's true, if that was my motive, then there's not going to be a whole lot of bitterness there because I didn't do it for that. That's not to say it doesn't hurt. It does feel extra salty when somebody that you have poured into and when you come calling for a little bit of help, they don't give you anything. I had a lot of that in my life, Minda.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
A lot of people, especially in ministry, that I, for lack of a better term, I helped them go further.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Repair Broken Trust with Carl Lentz
in a major way and then the moment we went through our thing and so now you don't want to be associated with me and so the scoreboard is a hundred to one but whose fault is it that i'm looking at a scoreboard i said i didn't play under that's on me but i want to be honest and say it's definitely there it's something i had to get over and it's more resourceful for me not to look that way but it's there once in a while it'll pop up and i'll say i see you scoreboard i'm not gonna not gonna look at you too long but i see you