Anne-Marie Green
Appearances
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Crossfire at the Shaughnessys'
at the heart of this broadcast is cory not only does she have to live through this nightmare of an experience of witnessing her husband's murder but also an emotional journey to discover that her son what could be more heartbreaking than this her son is behind it when we get back we're going to get into more of cory's side of the story Welcome back to Postmortem.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Crossfire at the Shaughnessys'
Now, the real victim in this story is Corey, who not only loses her husband and nearly loses her own life, but ultimately also loses her only son. Jim, you played Corey a clip from your interview with Nick in which he apologizes to her. Let's hear Nick's apology and then Corey's reaction to it.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Crossfire at the Shaughnessys'
It's such an interesting way of phrasing that feeling.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Crossfire at the Shaughnessys'
Um, it's hard to believe that the child that you poured so much into and we're all parents here. So we know how much the parenting process also changes us. We become different people as a result of being parents. So I can only imagine how difficult it was despite the evidence for her to come around to finally sort of believe that he was part of this plot.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Crossfire at the Shaughnessys'
What's your take on that process that she talked about it? Why it took so long?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Crossfire at the Shaughnessys'
Yeah. So to your point, Jim, when you ask Corey how she feels about her son now, she says something really interesting. I want to play some of that sound.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Crossfire at the Shaughnessys'
Yeah, yeah, I totally agree. Lastly, you end the hour with a postscript that reads, as a parole requirement for the next 10 years, Jacqueline Edison must spend the night in jail on the anniversary of Ted Shaughnessy's murder. In your experience reporting true crime, is this unusual?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Crossfire at the Shaughnessys'
Well, it was a great hour. Fantastic storytelling, incredible interviewing. Thank you so much for joining us this week.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Crossfire at the Shaughnessys'
Thank you. So join us next Tuesday for another Postmortem and watch 48 Hours, Saturdays, 10, 9 Central on CBS and streaming on Paramount+. And if you are liking the show, please rate and review 48 Hours on Apple Podcasts and follow 48 Hours wherever you get your podcasts. And you can also listen ad-free on the Amazon Music and Wondery app or with a 48 Hours Plus subscription on Apple Podcasts.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Crossfire at the Shaughnessys'
There was some incredible detective work done here by detectives Paul Salo and James Moore. They discovered these text messages on Nick and Jackie's phones that seemed to suggest their involvement in hiring the shooters. But the trail kind of runs cold until Detective Moore spots a small detail on the security video from Nick and Jackie's porch recorded just two days really before the attack.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Crossfire at the Shaughnessys'
Here's Detective Moore talking with Jim about what he saw on the security video.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Crossfire at the Shaughnessys'
OK, so that was a lucky break for sure. Right. But it's not just luck because I didn't even I couldn't even figure out why he zeroed in on that T-shirt. Something about it stuck out to him.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Crossfire at the Shaughnessys'
Welcome to Postmortem. I'm your host, Anne-Marie Green. And with me today are CBS News Chief Investigative Correspondent Jim Axelrod and producer Jenna Jackson to discuss Shootout at the Shaughnessy's. Thank you so much for joining us, guys.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Crossfire at the Shaughnessys'
That shirt would not have jumped out at me enough to follow up on. Oh, yeah.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Crossfire at the Shaughnessys'
Now, we should add that the man in the T-shirt they identified in the video was not involved in the killing, but he knew someone who was. And that led police to Nick Shaughnessy and his girlfriend, Jackie, who we later find out is actually his wife, right? So, you know, the way this investigation sort of unfolds and comes together is really incredible.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Crossfire at the Shaughnessys'
What was Nick's relationship, though, like with his parents? It seemed like they adored him. They gave him all sorts of opportunities.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Crossfire at the Shaughnessys'
I mean, they even helped him start his business as a day trader, giving him money. Everything seems like he was on the right path.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Crossfire at the Shaughnessys'
So as I'm watching The Hour, this episode is really a masterclass in interviewing. not only securing an interview, but also getting answers to tough questions. Both of you did that. Jim, your interview with Nick was really something. And Jenna, you approached Jackie right after she's released from prison for an interview. I thought there's no way this woman's going to talk.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Crossfire at the Shaughnessys'
And then she stands there and answers your questions.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Crossfire at the Shaughnessys'
Yes, thank you. The thing about this hour is, you know, the story starts off one way and it ends in a way that's completely different than you expect. There's a break in at Ted and Corey Shaughnessy's home in Austin, Texas. Ted is killed, but his wife, Corey, actually survives. And initially, it seems like this could have been, you know, a robbery gone wrong.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Crossfire at the Shaughnessys'
And Jenna, what were you thinking when you were approaching her?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Crossfire at the Shaughnessys'
And I was sort of caught off guard listening to her answer because
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Crossfire at the Shaughnessys'
So true. And then, Jim, your interview with Nick in prison after he's incarcerated. First off, you're sitting across from him. There's a glass separating you two. What's it like interviewing someone? in a maximum security prison, do you have to sort of block out the environment?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Crossfire at the Shaughnessys'
You're describing kind of the delicate balance, all the different thoughts that go through your head. And that's part of the reason why I was so impressed with your approach to him, because you did ask the questions that the outraged viewer would ask, but not in a way that would stop him from answering your questions. Yeah. So I want to play part of your interview with Nick.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Crossfire at the Shaughnessys'
He very quickly accepts what he did, but accepting what he did is different than taking accountability, right? So, Jim, here's what you ask Nick.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Crossfire at the Shaughnessys'
So that's when I was like, there it is. Best moment ever, Jen. Yes, there it is. Because the whole time I'm thinking, geez, he seems, you know, really ready, willing, and able to take responsibility for this.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Crossfire at the Shaughnessys'
But as the police start investigating, it looks more and more like this is an inside job. So before we get into the discussion, let's just hear a quick recap of the broadcast.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Crossfire at the Shaughnessys'
Oh, yeah. So as I was watching the interview with Nick, I kept on thinking, why am I unsatisfied with his answer? He's taking responsibility. I know. But I still feel unsatisfied. And it's because you don't say those words without breaking down, without tears in your eyes, something.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Crossfire at the Shaughnessys'
So Jackie only had to serve 120 days in jail. Nick and his two accomplices, they each got sentences of 35 years. Big difference. Jenna, you know, you spoke to Jackie and you asked her about that. And she seemed to think that was fair based on her, what she says is her involvement. What was your reaction to hearing the sentences that everyone got?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Crossfire at the Shaughnessys'
DA Jose Garza did not speak with us, but he did provide a statement. Let's play a clip from the show.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Crossfire at the Shaughnessys'
You spoke to investigators, and they were convinced Jackie knew something about the murder plot and did nothing about it, nothing to stop it. Let's hear a clip from Detectives Moore and Salo.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Farris Wheel
So then was this coming as a complete surprise to Scott or did he know that his mother had been suggesting that maybe he was the culprit?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Farris Wheel
So, you know, Peter, it's one thing to hear that suggestion from your mother's defense attorneys, right? You know, at least on some level that they're doing a job. and it's to create doubt.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Farris Wheel
But it's another thing to hear it from your own mother, who is not only saying that you did this horrible thing, but is, you know, sort of preemptively celebrating the day that you will get what's coming to you. I don't know if Scott was even kind of ready to talk about, like, that emotional stuff. But when you sat down and talked to him, did he talk about that hurt, that betrayal?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Farris Wheel
Yeah, exactly. And a reminder, if you haven't taken the ride yet, meaning if you haven't actually listened to this episode yet, you can find the full hour in your podcast feed right above this one. So go listen to this case and then come on back so we can discuss. All right, Peter. So we are going to talk about your exclusive interview with Melody Ferris, which is absolutely remarkable.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Farris Wheel
Maybe this has happened before. You've been doing this for a long time. I don't recall ever watching when an accused who is then convicted walks right out of the courtroom and sits down in front of 48 hours cameras. How did that come about? Tell me more about this interview.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Farris Wheel
Wow. And then you have the whole family. You talked about the Ferris wheel, the tumultuousness of their family dynamic. And so now you have their father is dead. Their mother is behind bars. Just how are they getting along now?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Farris Wheel
And it's funny because I was I was watching. I didn't actually clue in that she was wearing orange until later on, which gives you a little indication is that, you know, things did not go her way. But before we even get into that, I want to talk about Scott because you also had an interview with Scott Ferris. His job was to run the day-to-day operations on the farm. He lived there.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Farris Wheel
It's such a shame. But it's a fascinating story, and it's heartbreaking to see the devastation that's left behind with this family. Peter, thank you very much.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Farris Wheel
And if you like this series, Postmortem, please rate and review 48 Hours on Apple Podcasts and follow 48 Hours wherever you get your podcasts. And you can also listen ad-free with a 48 Hours Plus subscription on Apple Podcasts. Thanks for listening.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Farris Wheel
Police zero in on Melody, though. But I'm really curious because she points the finger at her own son. Was he ever a suspect in this case?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Farris Wheel
All right. So there you go. So the other thing that you did, Peter, and I'm really curious about what this was like, is that you actually went to the exact locations, right? And sometimes that really makes a difference in terms of your reporting to see the distance from one place to the next, this hill, this farm. How did like going to these locations inform your reporting?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Farris Wheel
It's a wee bit of a distance, too. It's not like a short distance. But you spoke to Scott, which I can only imagine he's racking his brain trying to come up with a theory. This was not included in the hour. And so I want to play some of the sound of what Scott said to you, how what he believes happened. Let's play the unaired clip.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Farris Wheel
Nevertheless, police do arrest Melody. They arrest her in 2019. They charge Melody Ferris with the murder of her husband, Gary. But then the case drags out. It's five years before they actually go to trial. The DA said, you know, this had partially to do with COVID. And we know, Peter, that COVID, it really did sort of delay a lot of cases. Your team, however, was in the courtroom.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Farris Wheel
I just want to get a sense of what it was like when arguments were heard from the defense, from the prosecution. Did people in the courtroom get a sense of where this case might be going?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Farris Wheel
Welcome back to Postmortem. I'm your host, Anne-Marie Green. And today I'm joined by 48 Hours correspondent Peter Van Sant to discuss the murder of Gary Ferris, whose remains were found in a burn pile on his Georgia farm in 2018. Now, his wife, Melody, was charged and then convicted of his murder. But she says the real killer is is actually their son, Scott. Scott Ferris denies all of this.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Farris Wheel
Huh. Yes. I thought that was a curious bit of evidence as well. And I was frankly surprised that they could track the phone over that short of a distance.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Farris Wheel
Welcome back. The trial against Melody Ferris almost ended in a hung jury. After three days of deliberations, the jury sent out a note to the judge saying that they were deadlocked. But the judge asked them to go back, give it another try, and then in a few hours, they actually did come back with their verdict. Melody Ferris was found guilty on all five counts against her.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Farris Wheel
including malice murder, felony murder, and making false statements. You were at the sentencing hearing, where for the very first time she spoke publicly. And of all things to say, when you're facing life behind bars, she points the finger at her own son. And there's sort of a rant from her about how Scott is actually the culprit. How did they react in the courtroom to that?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Farris Wheel
We are going to talk about all the details in this case, Peter's exclusive interview with Melody right after she learns her fate, that she's sentenced to life behind bars. Peter, I want to thank you for joining us.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Ivy League Murder
We talked a little bit about this earlier, that Kevin Jong was just an absolutely remarkable human being. So much so that we almost I don't think we could put everything in the hour, you know, dedicated to his studies and dedicated to his military endeavors. He was just sort of dedicated to being a good human.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Ivy League Murder
They can go any way that they want. And then they take these divergent paths in life. They're almost like two sides of the same coin. But your crime reporter mind was drawn to this case in sort of a different way. How did you approach it?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Ivy League Murder
And that was very rare. And, you know, we talked earlier about the two families here. In the show, you see the virtual vigil and Kevin's dad is speaking and he is by far the most emotional out of everyone that you see. And here's what people don't know is that Kevin comes from a divorced family.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Ivy League Murder
And one of the things that we learned from Kevin's friends is that Kevin and his dad had not been very close for a number of years. And they had actually started to rekindle that relationship. And in fact, he went to go visit his dad with Zion and they were rebuilding those connections.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Ivy League Murder
And so to have his son ripped away from him at such a crucial time, it just sort of adds to the sadness of this whole thing.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Ivy League Murder
It's just an incredible waste and an incredibly heartbreaking case. But I have to tell you, Murray, it was also a very complicated story to tell. And the way you weaved all the elements together, I thought was just exceptional. And it was fantastic working with you. Thank you very much.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Ivy League Murder
Well, I want to thank everyone for listening to this hour. Listen, if you like this series, Postmortem, please rate and review 48 Hours on Apple Podcasts. You can follow 48 Hours wherever you get your podcasts. And you can also listen ad-free with a 48 Hours plus subscription on Apple Podcasts. Thanks again for listening.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Ivy League Murder
Indeed. And, you know, as we reveal in the story, what really broke the case open was when investigators discovered that there actually was a connection between Pan and Kevin. But it was not a very obvious one at all. They searched Pan's Facebook account and they found that he was connected online. to Kevin's fiance, Zion Perry, who also attended MIT.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Ivy League Murder
Investigators told us that Pan first met Zion through this Christian group at MIT, you know, like a social group. But their interactions were kind of fleeting.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Ivy League Murder
Right. And Pan was never more than an acquaintance to Zion. There was no romance between them. She had no idea that he was even interested in her.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Ivy League Murder
And we just want to remind people that it's never been determined that Zion was actually the motivation for this murder. We still don't know why Pan did what he did. And we did try to talk to Zion as well, but she declined.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Ivy League Murder
So let's actually get into that because the level of premeditation for this is astounding to me. These shootings that happened before Kevin's murder, in order to do them, Pan used different vehicles.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Ivy League Murder
He was able to get test drives from these dealerships, which I thought was so interesting because, I mean, I haven't gone out to test drive a vehicle in a while, but usually the salesperson comes with you. He was able to grab these vehicles, disappear for a few hours, and then come back. There are a few other details that we didn't really get to in the hour, according to U.S. Marshals.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Ivy League Murder
When he would go to these dealerships, he would ask a series of curious questions. He would recline in the seats to see if he could lie down. And investigators speculated that he was scoping out these cars to see if he could actually hide in them.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Ivy League Murder
Welcome to Postmortem. I'm your host, Anne-Marie Green. And today we're actually discussing a case that I reported on with 48 Hours producer Marie Weiss. It's about the murder of Kevin Zhang and the incredible investigative work done by multiple law enforcement agencies, including the U.S. Marshals, to find his killer. Marie, it's always good to see you.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Ivy League Murder
But here's the thing, you know, there's an incredible amount of planning for this. But the one thing it seems like Penn doesn't plan for very well is how to get away. And that's what really jams him up. You know, he tries to flee the scene, but he ends up in a scrap metal yard and he is stopped by law enforcement there.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Ivy League Murder
And we should point out that, in fact, the murder weapon was never found. And that Sergeant Mills that you see in the hour, this guy is like a dedicated officer, man. And he went back to that scrap metal yard several times looking for this gun.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Ivy League Murder
So he went back on his own time to look for this weapon, you know, in that yard and it was just never found. And I will point out one more thing about his encounter with Pan. It didn't rise to the level of particular concern for him.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Ivy League Murder
So let's talk a little bit more about Sergeant Mills. I see him as kind of a cop's cop. The guy's really dedicated to his job. And in fact, on the day that he got the call to go to the Arby's, it was like he was working a half day. He was going to go coach hockey. But he gets this call to go to the Arby's to investigate the gun and the ammunition that was left in the parking lot and
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Ivy League Murder
So as usual, a reminder to everyone, if you haven't listened to this 48 Hours episode yet, you can find the full audio version just below this episode in your podcast feed. So go take a listen and then come on back so we can talk about this. All right, Murray. So this case has so many layers to it, but there were different narratives, I think, that jumped out to both of us.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Ivy League Murder
Welcome back. So when the U.S. Marshal gets involved in this case, they knew that King Chin Pan was on the run. He's very smart. He's tech savvy. So their sort of first order was to kind of get into his mind, figure out who this guy is.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Ivy League Murder
One of the things that the marshal said to us is that Pan thought he was the smartest guy in the room. And when they spoke to someone who he had interviewed with for, I think it was a coding job, That guy said, yeah, you know, he's really smart. He's an MIT guy. But, you know, his coding actually wasn't as good as he thought it would be.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Ivy League Murder
So he's a smart guy, but maybe he thought he was smarter than he actually was.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Ivy League Murder
U.S. marshals actually finally tracked down Pan by tracing a phone call made to him from his mom. She used the phone of a hotel clerk.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Ivy League Murder
And I just want to sort of reinforce that Pan's parents, they were never charged with anything in connection with Kevin's murder or Pan being on the run or anything along those lines. Correct. But speaking of a team, we're talking about 20 people. were sent to arrest Pan. Matthew Duffy, supervisor of the U.S. Marshals Violent Fugitive Task Force in Connecticut, called this team a small army.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Ivy League Murder
Well, it worked. They got their man and no one was hurt in the process.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Ivy League Murder
You know, you're a longtime New York City crime reporter. You've, you know, gone after mobsters and you name it. And I was really fascinated by the characters, if you will. Here you have two young men. They're the only sons in their family, only children. They are incredibly talented and bright. They get into these prestigious universities. I mean, the world is kind of like their oyster.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Ivy League Murder
He did. Yeah, totally. So there are still a number of unanswered questions here. Right. And one of them is, you know, why? Why did this happen? And we attempted to actually talk to Penn and ask him that question. Right.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Ivy League Murder
So that question remains unanswered, at least at this point.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Ivy League Murder
So Penn initially pled not guilty and was sticking to that for quite a while. Eventually, though, there was a tremendous amount of evidence. He agreed to plead guilty. In the hour, we see some of his statement at sentencing, but we want to play an extended clip for you. That's it.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Grad Student Murder
Well, it worked. They got their man and no one was hurt in the process.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Grad Student Murder
He did. Yeah, totally. So there are still a number of unanswered questions here. Right. And one of them is, you know, why? Why did this happen? And we attempted to actually talk to Penn and ask him that question. Right.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Grad Student Murder
So that question remains unanswered, at least at this point. Yeah. So Penn initially pled not guilty and was sticking to that for quite a while. Eventually, though, there was a tremendous amount of evidence. He agreed to plead guilty. In the hour, we see some of his statement at sentencing, but we want to play an extended clip for you.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Grad Student Murder
We talked a little bit about this earlier, that Kevin Jong was just an absolutely remarkable human being. So much so that we almost I don't think we could put everything in the hour, you know, dedicated to his studies and dedicated to his military endeavors. He was just sort of dedicated to being a good human.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Grad Student Murder
You know, you're a longtime New York City crime reporter. You've, you know, gone after mobsters and you name it. And I was really fascinated by the characters, if you will. Here you have two young men. They're the only sons in their family, only children. They are incredibly talented and bright. They get into these prestigious universities. I mean, the world is kind of like their oyster.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Grad Student Murder
And that was very rare. And, you know, we talked earlier about the two families here. In the show, you see the virtual vigil and Kevin's dad is speaking and he is by far the most emotional out of everyone that you see. And here's what people don't know is that Kevin comes from a divorced family and he
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Grad Student Murder
One of the things that we learned from Kevin's friends is that Kevin and his dad had not been very close for a number of years. And they had actually started to rekindle that relationship. And in fact, he went to go visit his dad with Zion and they were rebuilding those connections.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Grad Student Murder
And so to have his son ripped away from him at such a crucial time, it just sort of adds to the sadness of this whole thing.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Grad Student Murder
It's just an incredible waste and an incredibly heartbreaking case. But I have to tell you, Murray, it was also a very complicated story to tell. And the way you weaved all the elements together, I thought was just exceptional. And it was fantastic working with you.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Grad Student Murder
Well, I want to thank everyone for listening to this hour. Listen, if you like this series, Postmortem, please rate and review 48 Hours on Apple Podcasts. You can follow 48 Hours wherever you get your podcasts. And you can also listen ad-free with a 48 Hours Plus subscription on Apple Podcasts. Thanks again for listening.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Grad Student Murder
They can go any way that they want. And then they take these divergent paths in life. They're almost like two sides of the same coin. But your crime reporter mind was... was drawn to this case in sort of a different way. How did you approach it?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Grad Student Murder
Indeed. And, you know, as we reveal in the story, what really broke the case open was when investigators discovered that there actually was a connection between Pan and Kevin. But it was not a very obvious one at all. They searched Pan's Facebook account and they found that he was connected online. to Kevin's fiance, Zion Perry, who also attended MIT.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Grad Student Murder
Investigators told us that Pan first met Zion through this Christian group at MIT, you know, like a social group. But their interactions were kind of fleeting.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Grad Student Murder
Right. And Pan was never more than an acquaintance to Zion. There was no romance between them. She had no idea that he was even interested in her.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Grad Student Murder
And we just want to remind people that it's never been determined that Zion was actually the motivation for this murder. We still don't know why Pan did what he did. And we did try to talk to Zion as well, but she declined.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Grad Student Murder
So let's actually get into that, because the level of premeditation for this is astounding to me. These shootings that happened before Kevin's murder, in order to do them, Pan used different vehicles.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Grad Student Murder
He was able to get test drives from these dealerships, which I thought was so interesting because, I mean, I haven't gone out to test drive a vehicle in a while, but usually the salesperson comes with you. He was able to grab these vehicles, disappear for a few hours and then come back. There are a few other details that we didn't really get to in the hour, according to U.S. Marshals.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Grad Student Murder
When he would go to these dealerships, he would ask a series of curious questions. He would recline in the seats to see if he could lie down. And investigators speculated that he was scoping out these cars to see if he could actually hide in them.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Grad Student Murder
But here's the thing, you know, there's an incredible amount of planning for this. But the one thing it seems like Penn doesn't plan for very well is how to get away. And that's what really jams him up. You know, he tries to flee the scene, but he ends up in a scrap metal yard and he is stopped by law enforcement there.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Grad Student Murder
And we should point out that, in fact, the murder weapon was never found. And that Sergeant Mills that you see in the hour, this guy is like a dedicated officer, man. And he went back to that scrap metal yard several times looking for this gun.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Grad Student Murder
Right, right, exactly. So he went back on his own time to look for this weapon, you know, in that yard, and it was just never found. And I will point out one more thing about his encounter with Pan. It didn't rise to the level of particular concern for him.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Grad Student Murder
So let's talk a little bit more about Sergeant Mills. I see him as kind of a cop's cop. The guy's really dedicated to his job. And in fact, on the day that he got the call to go to the Arby's, it was like he was working a half day. He was going to go coach hockey. But he gets this call to go to the Arby's to investigate the gun and the ammunition that was left in the parking lot.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Grad Student Murder
Welcome to Postmortem. I'm your host, Anne-Marie Green. And today we're actually discussing a case that I reported on with 48 Hours producer Marie Weiss. It's about the murder of Kevin Zhang and the incredible investigative work done by multiple law enforcement agencies, including the U.S. Marshals, to find his killer. Marie, it's always good to see you.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Grad Student Murder
Welcome back. So when the U.S. Marshal gets involved in this case, they knew that King Chin Pan was on the run. He's very smart. He's tech savvy. So their sort of first order was to kind of get into his mind, figure out who this guy is.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Grad Student Murder
One of the things that the marshal said to us is that Pan thought he was the smartest guy in the room. And when they spoke to someone who he had interviewed with for, I think it was a coding job, That guy said, yeah, you know, he's really smart. He's an MIT guy. But, you know, his coding actually wasn't as good as he thought it would be.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Grad Student Murder
So he's a smart guy, but maybe he thought he was smarter than he actually was.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Grad Student Murder
U.S. marshals actually finally tracked down Pan by tracing a phone call made to him from his mom. She used the phone of a hotel clerk.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Grad Student Murder
And I just want to sort of reinforce that Pan's parents, they were never charged with anything in connection with Kevin's murder or Pan being on the run or anything along those lines. Correct. But speaking of a team, we're talking about 20 people. were sent to arrest Pan. Matthew Duffy, supervisor of the U.S. Marshals Violent Fugitive Task Force in Connecticut, called this team a small army.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Grad Student Murder
So as usual, a reminder to everyone, if you haven't listened to this 48 Hours episode yet, you can find the full audio version just below this episode in your podcast feed. So go take a listen and then come on back so we can talk about this. All right, Murray. So this case has so many layers to it, but there were different narratives, I think, that jumped out to both of us.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | TV Bailiff Spivey on Trial
So go take a listen to it and then come on back and we will talk. All right. What I think was really interesting about this episode is just how much security video you had from inside the home. I've always wondered who these people are that just run security cameras in their home all the time, in the kitchen of all places.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | TV Bailiff Spivey on Trial
The jury deliberated for 12 hours over two days, found Renard Spivey not guilty. Well, it certainly surprised me, only because it doesn't often happen on 48 Hours. Do you expect that viewers were also surprised?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | TV Bailiff Spivey on Trial
I mean, I thought to myself, I'm going to take a look at how many other cases this particular type of gun is involved in, because it seems like a particularly dangerous design. If you're trained and he would have been, perhaps you can handle it. But I would think there's a lot of people who can't handle a gun like that. Yes.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | TV Bailiff Spivey on Trial
Wow. So you spoke to Renard's twin sister, Renee, and she said there are really no winners at all in this case. Renard's life will never be the same. Patricia, of course, lost her life. What was it like talking to Patricia's family and how are they coping, considering not only are they dealing with the loss of Patricia, but also this case did not turn out the way they believed it should have?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | TV Bailiff Spivey on Trial
So because of this, we can actually hear the shooting, but we don't see the shooting. Patricia's family, they believe that she was murdered, but Renard said that it was an accident. Was it a challenge for you all to make sure that you presented both sides of the story?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | TV Bailiff Spivey on Trial
Well, you know, you always wonder why people are willing to talk to us here at 48 Hours. And I hope in her case it was therapeutic, that this is the beginning of some sort of journey towards healing for her. But I was quite struck by the fact that she was caught off guard, that there were tears. And then what about Renard?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | TV Bailiff Spivey on Trial
We'll see what happens. It was a really well-told hour. You guys did an excellent job. And thanks for joining us.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | TV Bailiff Spivey on Trial
If you like this series, Postmortem, please rate and review 48 Hours on Apple Podcasts and follow 48 Hours wherever you get your podcasts. You can also listen ad-free on Amazon Music, Wondry Plus, and the Wondry app, or with a 48 Hours Plus subscription on Apple Podcasts. Thanks again for listening.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | TV Bailiff Spivey on Trial
And so you guys really studied the surveillance footage really closely. I know what sort of struck me, which has nothing necessarily to do with the case, was just how ordinary it seemed like the hours leading up to this were, you know, going to the fridge, grabbing a drink. It's like very ordinary. What was unusual about the footage leading up to the shooting?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | TV Bailiff Spivey on Trial
But this is one of my the challenge that I had with his story is that it just seemed like there wasn't a lot of time. We see him go out to the kitchen to say goodnight to her. Then he according to him, he's sort of rebuffed and he goes back in and he says he waited for her to fall asleep. It just didn't seem like enough time had gone by.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | TV Bailiff Spivey on Trial
Right. You can see why that would raise a little bit of suspicion. And then the surveillance cameras, they also catch moments after the shooting when Renard has called 911. We see him take a break from CPR to unlock the garage door. I want to play a clip of that 911 call. It wasn't part of the show, so this is new for people. When the operator hears his home security system disarming.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | TV Bailiff Spivey on Trial
Welcome. Thank you, Anne-Marie. Good to be with you. Thanks for having us. So I should point out to everyone that we're actually recording this at a pretty high stress time. For you, Natalie, there are several wildfires burning out of control in the Los Angeles area and not too far from where you are, Natalie.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | TV Bailiff Spivey on Trial
Yeah, that makes sense why he would be sort of groaning as much as he is because he's shot in the leg and now he's trying to walk, you know, to the garage. This is what I'll say. I kind of went back and forth. And part of the reason why I went back and forth is because I actually found him very believable. Have you interviewed people who've been accused of murder before?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | TV Bailiff Spivey on Trial
And was he sort of any different or the same or what jumped out at you guys? He genuinely...
48 Hours
Post Mortem | TV Bailiff Spivey on Trial
Welcome back. Let us dig into some of the evidence in this case. The trigger of the gun that we used to fatally shoot Patricia, it was never swabbed for DNA. Why not?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | TV Bailiff Spivey on Trial
Yeah, I can definitely see that. So it was still unclear the amount of times that Patricia was shot.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | TV Bailiff Spivey on Trial
Well, we're glad you're safe. And let's cross our fingers that this gets under control and everyone else remains safe as well. Thank you. Just a reminder for everyone, you know, I say this every time. If you have not watched the episode yet, this episode of 48 Hours, you can find the full audio version of it just below this episode in your podcast feed.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | TV Bailiff Spivey on Trial
So I want to talk about another person you interviewed, Patricia's friend, Ezra. He took the stand, had pretty damning testimony about their relationship, but also Renard. He told you in an interview that he had multiple phone conversations with Renard in the hours before the shooting and that Renard admitted to taking steroids and said that Patricia wanted a divorce.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | TV Bailiff Spivey on Trial
But at trial, the prosecutor did not present phone records to prove this. How did Ezra's testimony hold up at trial?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | TV Bailiff Spivey on Trial
Welcome back to Postmortem. I'm your host, Anne-Marie Green. And today we are discussing the case of Patricia Spivey, whose husband, Renard, is a former sheriff's deputy. He was also known for playing a bailiff on TV. He was charged in 2019 with murdering Patricia in the home that they built together. So joining me now is CBS News correspondent Natalie Morales and 48 Hours producer Asena Bashak.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | TV Bailiff Spivey on Trial
So Ezra was the only one that I am aware of that spoke about steroid use. But when you talk to her cousin and to her daughter, did they also indicate that, you know, there were problems in the relationship to this degree?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
The doctor is already there. So we heard some portions of the 911 call that he made on that morning, Sunday, November 13th, 2016. We want to play some of it because there are a few points that really jumped out at me right away.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
Yeah, he's a wee bit rusty, I guess, in the wooing department, but it almost sounds like something that was written by ChatGPT. There's something, I don't know how to explain it, somewhat sort of oddly mechanical about it.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
Just to remind everyone, this letter comes two weeks after his wife dies. So the jury deliberates and the big question is not only if they're going to find him guilty, but if they will find him guilty of first degree or second degree murder. So first off, can we kind of explain what the difference is?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
After about three hours, the jury came back with a verdict and they find him not guilty of first-degree murder, but guilty of second-degree murder. Were you surprised by this decision?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
The sentencing is about three months after the verdict. And we hear from a couple of members of Suzanne's family, including her daughter, Mary Catherine, who still believes in her father's innocence. And, you know, this murder would have had to be occurring while both of his children are just upstairs sleeping. Right. It takes a certain type of person to do that.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
Mary Catherine does not believe that her father is that type of person. Here's some of what she had to say.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
My heart was breaking for her. What I heard was a young woman just trying to hang on to anything, a wisp of the life she had before this nightmare began. And if it's just a little bit of her father, then she wants it.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
Yeah. Clearly we know where Mary Catherine stands on this, but what about her brother, her twin brother? Do we know anything about, you know, how he feels about his dad and how he feels about what happened?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
Dr. Sills received the mandatory sentence under California law for second-degree murder, which is 15 years to life. Would his sentence be different if it had been a first-degree murder, guilty murder?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
Yeah, it's true. 15 years doesn't seem like much. Suzanne's mother, Teresa, also gave a statement at sentencing about the loss of her daughter. What was it like to listen to her talk about the kind of person her daughter was?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
Tracy, Diane, this has been fantastic. The final 48 hours for the season. Thank you. Thanks, Anne-Marie. All right, and thank you to our listeners for tuning in to this season of Postmortem. We have one more special episode coming up next week, and then we'll be back for a new season of 48 Hours in September.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
But keep your eye on the 48 Hours Podcast feed this summer for more classic 48 Hours episodes and perhaps... Vielen Dank fürs Zuhören.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
Why is he acting like he doesn't know CPR? He's a doctor.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
So, a year after Suzanne's death, the coroner's office finally cited her cause of death as ligature strangulation and the manner a homicide. Out of curiosity, why did it take a year to come to a conclusion? Or is that a standard...
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
Hallo und willkommen zu Postmortem. Ich bin deine Hostin Anne-Marie Green und heute sprechen wir über den Fall von Suzanne Sills, die am Boden eines Steckkastens in ihrer Orange County, Kalifornien, gestorben wurde. Sein Mann, ein renowneder Fertilitätschirurg, sagt, dass sie gestorben ist und dass ihr Tod ein Unfall war. But later, he's charged with her murder.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
At trial in November of 2023, the defense made the argument that the ligature marks could have been made by Sills' two dogs pulling at the scarf around Suzanne's neck after she'd already fallen down the stairs. How did that argument stand up at trial? I know they showed pictures of the dogs playing tug of war. I don't know if you guys are pet people. I think...
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
Anyone who has had a dog knows they play tug of war. But I don't know with your scarf around your neck.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
There was also the fact that, you know, there was no damage on the stairs from Suzanne falling. You would think that there would be some scuffs, something. How did the defense explain that?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
Und dann, you know, Tracy, when you spoke to Jack earlier, he sort of gave a little more insight into what he thought happened.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
So joining me now to discuss the final episode of this season are 48-Hours-Correspondent Tracy Smith and producer Gayan Kashishian-Mendez. Tracy, Gayan, thanks so much for joining us. Thanks for having us. Thank you. All right, everyone, before we dive in. A quick reminder for our listeners to go first and watch or listen to this episode. The title is The Puzzling Death of Suzanne Sills.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
Did they present any of that at trial? I mean...
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
Yes. So he was sort of asking the jury to disregard the coroner's report and to find a different cause of death.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
All right. So let us talk about the motive, because it seems like the prosecution really didn't have a clear explanation for why Dr. Sills would want to murder his wife.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
Let us talk about this, because I found the whole thing just really odd. But let's just start with, because I'd never heard of Patrick.net. Can you just sort of explain what Patrick.net is?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
Ist das etwas, was sie mit ihrem Mann darüber argumentiert hat, ihre Partizipation auf diesem Ort?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
You can find the full audio just below this episode in your podcast feed. So go listen if you haven't already and then come join us for our conversation. All right, here we go. So there's something really unusual about this case. It's that Suzanne's husband is a doctor. And you would imagine that if you're going to have an accident at home and fall down your stairs, this is the best case scenario.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
Okay, let's talk about that Patrick.net post that Suzanne made. This photo, this topless photo.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
So in the photo, though, you notice both of Suzanne's hands are partially visible. It might have been taken using a self-timer, but do we have any idea who actually took this photo?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
Welcome back. So, another possible motive that investigators explored was a one-time relationship Sills had with a woman named Marie Dalton. Now, she was a former nurse that he met online while he was still married to Suzanne. I want to play a clip that we didn't get to put in the hour of Marie's conversation with police after Suzanne died.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | JonBenét Ramsey
I want to play a little sound of him explaining why he's keeping up the fight.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | JonBenét Ramsey
I'm impressed by his ability to speak about this. He seems incredibly strong.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | JonBenét Ramsey
Well, I hope, you know, he finds the answers. Many people are still very, very interested in this case. It was really fascinating watching your coverage from decades ago, right?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | JonBenét Ramsey
Thanks for having us. Pleasure. Thanks. So if you like this series, Postmortem, please rate and review 48 Hours on Apple Podcasts and then follow 48 Hours wherever you get your podcasts. You can also listen ad-free on the Amazon Music Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or with a 48 Hours Plus subscription on Apple Podcasts. Thank you so much for listening.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | JonBenét Ramsey
I think that's so interesting because she in particular was the one that took a lot of heat. There was a lot of suspicion towards her and she could have easily displayed all that she was going through in order to get some sympathy, but she chose not to.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | JonBenét Ramsey
Why was 48 Hours so convinced that... taking a look at the possibility of an outside intruder was the way to go.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | JonBenét Ramsey
I mean, you know, I remember when this case sort of exploded. And so I remember myself consuming all of this stuff and the conclusions that I was coming to. And then watching this hour again, I just thought, it's so obvious. It is so easy to get in the garage. Of course. I mean, you'd have to practice to make something like that. Who's practicing that?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | JonBenét Ramsey
You can't help but to think that, you know, maybe this would have been solved if the focus wasn't so much on the parents as a suspect. In fact, you have a new interview with John Ramsey. What was it like to sit down with him again?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | JonBenét Ramsey
Welcome back to another episode of Postmortem. I'm your host, Anne-Marie Green, and today we're discussing the unsolved case of JonBenet Ramsey. Joining me now is 48 Hours correspondent, Erin Moriarty. Erin, you have been covering this for over 20 years. and of course, producer Mary Murphy.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | JonBenét Ramsey
I want to play a clip, a part of the interview that you did with John. It wasn't in the show, but he's talking about his hopes for the continued investigation here. In particular, he's talking about genetic genealogy and the way in which that may help to find his daughter's killer.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | JonBenét Ramsey
We have a lot to discuss, including a new interview that Aaron did with John Ramsey, JonBenet's father, and the latest developments on the investigation.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | JonBenét Ramsey
Welcome back. So although much of the police investigation really focused on John and Patsy Ramsey, there were other suspects. Four years after the murder, Boulder police investigated convicted sex offender Gary Oliva, who frequented the area near the Ramsey home. But he was later dismissed as a suspect. His DNA didn't match the evidence at the scene.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | JonBenét Ramsey
But first, I want to remind you guys, if you have not listened to the 48 Hours episode yet, you can find the full audio version just below this episode on your podcast feed. So go and take a listen and then come on back so you can join our discussion. All right. Erin, like I said, you've been covering this case for over two decades.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | JonBenét Ramsey
Absolutely. Because you think whoever's responsible for this is sort of a one off. Right. Right. Have there been any arrests in this case?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | JonBenét Ramsey
So I remember this case really well, but part of what I remember about the coverage was all the focus on these child beauty pageants. This was a culture I think most people were unfamiliar with. It seems to be uniquely American. I don't know if it happens anywhere else. But, you know, people were questioning why dress little girls up like this, even though it's innocent. That's part of what...
48 Hours
Post Mortem | JonBenét Ramsey
Led people to suspect her mom because there was this idea that they had like a relationship that was not not healthy, that only only a mother with an unhealthy relationship with her daughter would parade her daughter around like that.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | JonBenét Ramsey
You first spoke to JonBenet's parents, Jon and Patsy Ramsey, back in 2002. That was just six years after JonBenet was murdered. And it was a really interesting time. The murder was rife with speculation and conspiracy theories and the Ramseys were right in the middle of that. Why do you think they were so willing to talk to 48 Hours?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | First Love, Then Murder
Welcome back to Postmortem. I'm your host, Anne-Marie Green. And today I'm sitting down with CBS News correspondent Natalie Morales to discuss the murder of Aaron Fryer. Now, in the early morning hours of October 2nd, 2017, Aaron's ex-wife Maggie called 911 to report that both Aaron and their 15-year-old daughter, Ellen, nicknamed Ellie, were missing.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | First Love, Then Murder
Mm hmm. Well, ultimately, all three are charged with Aaron's murder and they took plea deals. Gavin McFarland pleaded guilty to murder and murder conspiracy charges. He was sentenced to 25 years to life in prison. Russell Jones entered a no contest plea to conspiracy to commit murder. He was sentenced to 15 years and Ellie Fryer.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | First Love, Then Murder
pleaded guilty to an adult charge of conspiring to murder her father. She received a 25-year sentence. In a way, I was sort of surprised that they all took plea deals. I mean, usually when you're facing charges with such serious consequences...
48 Hours
Post Mortem | First Love, Then Murder
Aaron is Detective Bill Ford sits down with Russell and as he describes him he's a chatty Cathy as they say he takes him out for it do you say smoke and joke that's what they call it yeah you know I guess Russell he's a smoker and Russell asked for a cigarette and he's like right perfect opportunity let's take him outside and we'll go smoke and joke and that's how they got Russell to talk and really start to spill the beans
48 Hours
Post Mortem | First Love, Then Murder
Well, you mentioned in the hour that Ellie has completed two master's degrees while she's been serving her sentence in a juvenile detention center. She's going to be eligible for parole in 2032. What is her relationship like with the rest of her family at this point?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | First Love, Then Murder
I guess family is family sometimes. And she talked about how she loved being the middle sister. So I can understand that you can dislike what someone's done but still love them. This is one of those stories that I think for many people, there will still be a lot of questions. whether or not Ellie was too young to be interrogated, whether or not they believe her.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | First Love, Then Murder
Well, Natalie, I got to thank you again for joining us for Postmortem. My pleasure to be with you again. And if you like this series, Postmortem, please rate and review 48 Hours on Apple Podcasts and follow 48 Hours wherever you get your podcasts. And you can also listen ad-free with a 48 Hours plus subscription on Apple Podcasts. Thanks again for listening.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | First Love, Then Murder
And sort of in no time, he offers to tell him where Aaron is, where his body is. You went out there. How difficult would it have been to find that area without Russell's help?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | First Love, Then Murder
And when you see Gavin in that interrogation room, I mean, he looks remorseful. But then we find out that, like, there's this whole plan that they taught. I mean, they didn't just talk about it. They wrote down plans and alternate plans, all these notes.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | First Love, Then Murder
Police arrived at Aaron's home and what they found there was shocking. Blood soaked sofa, blood spatter, shattered glass. Within hours, though, police found Ellie and they found her alive and seemingly unharmed. She was walking on the street with her boyfriend, Gavin McFarlane, and his friend, Russell Jones. But Aaron Fryer was still missing. Natalie, thanks for joining us to talk about this case.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | First Love, Then Murder
Okay, but I still think it's quite concerning that that would even be a topic of conversation. I do find it interesting that they clearly talked about it often enough, but then they go with this messy... choice, you know, to hit this man in his sleep over and over again. There's blood everywhere, which means there's evidence everywhere. Do we have any idea how long they had been planning this?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | First Love, Then Murder
So this was, you know, the portion of the hour that I found myself really wrestling with because this business of corroborating her allegations of abuse is... It's so difficult because we know that abuse victims don't always talk. They're scared to talk. We also know that they could be groomed. And so, you know, it's not like the victim of like a mugging on the street.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | First Love, Then Murder
It's a different kind of crime victim. And so I found myself, you know, torn listening to this.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | First Love, Then Murder
And so while we're talking about this, there's also the business of whether or not Gavin was also motivated by thinking that maybe he was going to be a father.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | First Love, Then Murder
Welcome back. Natalie, we have to talk a little bit more about Russell. I mean, not only did he basically give up all the goods at the beginning of his own interrogation, but then police leave him in the room by himself. He knows he's being recorded. He starts saying all this odd stuff. I want to play some more edited portions that did not make it into the hour.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | First Love, Then Murder
Hello again, Anne-Marie. Good to be with you. And a reminder to the listeners, like I tell you every week, if you haven't actually listened to this episode yet, you can find it in your podcast feed. It's right above this one. So go back and listen to the hour and then come on back and we can start talking about it. So, I mean, this really is one of those cases where...
48 Hours
Post Mortem | First Love, Then Murder
So I'm curious about what investigators, you know, made of this. Did they think he was, this was him? Or he's putting on a character? He's using reverse psychology? Like, what do you make of this?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | First Love, Then Murder
I couldn't figure out if this was an act he was putting on or if he really is this kind of character.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | First Love, Then Murder
But while he's kind of... You know, doing this one man show in the interrogation room by himself. Ellie is also being questioned. She's being interviewed by Detective Stephanie Jackson. But this interrogation goes on for quite a long time. It's 10 hours long. Ellie's mother, Maggie, says that no one told her that her child was in custody. I was surprised that this was permitted.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | First Love, Then Murder
I always was under the impression that an adult that was in some way representing the minor needs to be there, whether it's a parent or even somebody from the court. I don't know. But I guess this was OK.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | First Love, Then Murder
A lot happened in a very short period of time. Police, they find Ellie, Gavin and Russell walking on the street not too long after they discover this bloody scene. They take them all into the Medford Police Department in Oregon. They separate them and they're hoping that they can give them some information about where
48 Hours
Post Mortem | First Love, Then Murder
Yeah. I mean, I kind of have to admit that I feel the same way. And maybe it's because I'm a mom and my kid's 14. But then I also thought like the officer that is questioning her. She's a woman. And I was actually kind of watching her approach and I thought, geez, this is a really good approach.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | First Love, Then Murder
That didn't help her situation because that does come up in the hour, like several times, like people repeating over and over again. But she lied so much. And I started to wonder if I was missing things that were there things that she lied about that she really didn't even need to lie about.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Unraveling the Case Against Melissa
Welcome back to Postmortem. I'm your host, Anne-Marie Green. And today we're looking at the case of Melissa Koyuzinski. She was a daycare worker who was convicted of murder in 2009 in the death of a 16-month-old baby boy, Benjamin Kingen. Now, Melissa remains in prison, and she's already served 16 of the 31-year sentence that she received. But she's long insisted that she is innocent.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Unraveling the Case Against Melissa
So there's that. Do we know ultimately why it was shut down?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Unraveling the Case Against Melissa
The latest hour is 48, fourth installment on Melissa's case. And I know that your team will continue to follow with all kinds of updates, but where are we now in this case? What are the next steps?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Unraveling the Case Against Melissa
Absolutely. I thought it was really important to show Benjamin's family. This was devastating for everyone that loved him. And you also obviously talked to Melissa's parents, and they have worked tirelessly to free their daughter. And they actually have her bedroom exactly the same way that it was. What was it like speaking to them and visiting that bedroom?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Unraveling the Case Against Melissa
Yeah, absolutely. Well, it's a great hour and I know you guys are going to stay on this case. I'm curious to see how things continue to develop and unfold as this case moves forward. So, Stephanie, Erin, thank you very much. Thank you. Honestly, thank you for letting us talk about this.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Unraveling the Case Against Melissa
So once again, everyone, if you like this series, Postmortem, please rate and review 48 Hours on Apple Podcasts and follow 48 Hours wherever you get your podcasts. And you can also listen ad-free with the 48 Hours Plus subscription on Apple Podcasts. Thanks again for listening.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Unraveling the Case Against Melissa
So, in fact, in the hour, we see a portion of this very long, intense police interrogation. Melissa repeatedly claims, and we're talking about more than 60 times, that she did not hurt Benjamin. But then after nine hours, she admits to throwing him forcefully on the floor. So I want to play an extended clip of that interrogation.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Unraveling the Case Against Melissa
Well, so let me ask you about the attorney. And I once again was hearing Erin's voice in my head. She always says, no matter what, ask for an attorney, innocent or otherwise, always ask for an attorney first. And it seems like, you know, Melissa's parents clearly are very, very invested and were very involved. At this point, do you know if anyone intervened?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Unraveling the Case Against Melissa
So today joining me is 48 Hours correspondent Erin Moriarty, who has been reporting on this case for more than a decade, and producer Stephanie Slipher, who also worked on this case with us. Welcome, ladies. We love being here.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Unraveling the Case Against Melissa
Right. Stephanie, you brought up the x-rays because that was the other, oh my gosh, kind of component to this hour. Big part of the case, these x-rays that were given to Melissa's original defense attorney, Paul DeLuca, before the start of the trial. In 2015, and we're talking about four years after the conviction, Melissa's father says that he
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Unraveling the Case Against Melissa
He got a mysterious anonymous phone call telling him that there were clearer x-rays and that these x-rays were actually at the coroner's office and that they were never turned over to the defense. Then in 2016, Dr. Robert Zimmerman, who is a pediatric neuroradiologist, testifies at an evidentiary hearing that those x-rays show no skull fracture at all. This is a bombshell revelation.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Unraveling the Case Against Melissa
I am curious, has the person who is behind that anonymous phone call, has that person ever been identified?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Unraveling the Case Against Melissa
So Aaron, you asked Paul Foreman whether or not he was the one. Let's play that sound.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Unraveling the Case Against Melissa
I mean, knowing everything that we know, right, that there were actually clearer x-rays. Can you feel confident in the verdict from this trial?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Unraveling the Case Against Melissa
And Stephanie, I want to thank you because I know you're feeling a little under the weather and you still made it in for this podcast. So I really, really appreciate it.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Unraveling the Case Against Melissa
And remember, if you haven't listened to this episode of 48 Hours yet, you can go find it. You can find the full audio just below this episode in your podcast feed. So go take a listen and then come on back so we can talk about this case. All right. So, Aaron, 48 Hours first began reporting on Melissa's case in 2014.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Unraveling the Case Against Melissa
Welcome back. So police quickly focused on Melissa Kawizinski. But another woman named Brenda came up in police interviews with Melissa's co-workers. One of those daycare workers told police that months prior to Benjamin's death, she heard that he had thrown his head back in a crib while Brenda was putting him down. And then the next day, Brenda quit. The defense could not track her down.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Unraveling the Case Against Melissa
But incredibly, 48 hours did. Your team did. Stephanie did. Stephanie, how did you find Brenda and how did you convince her to sit down?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Unraveling the Case Against Melissa
And I guess we should remind everyone that Brenda, despite what the other co-workers had said, that Brenda was never charged with anything.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Unraveling the Case Against Melissa
Right. And I think it was a good opportunity for her because because her name is being bounced around, at least by the co-workers, to say this is what I remember. And I don't remember anything happening.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Unraveling the Case Against Melissa
That's about five years after Benjamin's death and almost three years after Melissa was actually convicted of his murder. When you first interviewed Melissa, was there anything that stood out to you about her? What were your impressions of her?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Unraveling the Case Against Melissa
The daycare where Melissa and Brenda worked was actually shut down by state authorities. This is shortly after Benjamin's death. I'm wondering, were there any further investigations? Did anyone look into whether or not there had been other problems at this daycare?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Footprint
And so ultimately, the jury does find Jerry Westrom guilty of murder in the first and second degrees. And then on September 9th, 2022, he's sentenced to life in prison. In 2024, the Minnesota Supreme Court reversed Westrom's second degree conviction, but it upheld the first degree murder conviction. I'm just curious about why they reversed the second degree conviction.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Footprint
We want to remind everyone, of course, if you haven't listened to this hour, head on over to your feed. You'll find this episode of 48 Hours right above this one. Go listen and then come on back and we can talk about it. When I started watching this, The case reminded me of actually the first 48 hours I ever did.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Footprint
Right, right. The punishment is the punishment. And he's going to be behind bars for a really long time. I think, I know for me, the most frustrating part of this story, though, is that we don't get to hear a why because he's not talking and he didn't testify.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Footprint
So even though, I mean, we really don't know what happened in that apartment or why it happened, the fact that he was convicted after 25-odd years, does the family feel like they've received closure, that there's justice? Or are there so many still unanswered questions that there can never be closure?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Footprint
Erin, another fascinating story. I learned more about DNA and I thought I knew a lot. I learned about footprints and whether or not they make for good evidence. And thanks for joining us.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Footprint
Well, thank you. I really, really appreciate it. And I appreciate the listeners having listened to all of our episodes of Postmortem. Postmortem is hosted by me, Anne-Marie Green. Our producer is Annie Cronenberg. Kiara Norbitz is the coordinating producer. Jamie Benson oversees technical production. Alan Pang and Reginald Bazile are our engineers. Mixing by Pedro Rafael Rosado.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Footprint
Special thanks to 48 Hours executive producer Judy Tigard, Megan Marcus and Ainsley Orsito, who lead the podcasting editorial and operations for CBS, as well as the video editing team for CBS Digital. And if you like the series Postmortem, please rate and review 48 Hours on Apple Podcasts and follow 48 Hours wherever you get your podcasts.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Footprint
Several years ago, it was the case of Angie Dodge, a teenager, an 18-year-old who was killed in her brand new apartment. And the case went unsolved for many, many years until they used genetic genealogy to track down her killer. It was kind of newish then. This is a very similar case. But the thing about this case is... You know, you think you find the DNA, you find the match, it's a home run.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Footprint
You can also listen ad-free with a 48 Hours plus subscription on Apple Podcasts. Thank you so much for listening.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Footprint
But in this case, in the apartment, there was a lot of DNA. So not necessarily a home run.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Footprint
Because just because DNA is found, you can't tell when that DNA was deposited. Right.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Footprint
Now, I think at this point, one of the most, I guess, famous investigations that was solved because of genetic genealogy was the case of the Golden State Killer, Joseph James DeAngelo. Were the investigators inspired by that case? And is that why they kind of went down that route?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Footprint
So therein lies the challenge. They have to somehow get a DNA sample from Jerry. And I thought it was really interesting in the hour... how they talked about, you know, a mouth sample, a saliva sample is better than anything else. And this is the first time I actually considered why they want mouth swabs, why they always look for, you know, something a suspect may have put in their mouth, a drink.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Footprint
But they go, the FBI agents in 2019, they go all the way to Wisconsin to track him down at a hockey game. Why do they have to go that far?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Footprint
Wow. And so they get the DNA sample and they make an arrest. How did Jeannie's family react to hearing about who the suspect was?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Footprint
Welcome back to Postmortem. I'm your host, Anne-Marie Green, and I'm joined by 48 Hours correspondent Erin Moriarty. We're going to be discussing the murder of 35-year-old Jeannie Childs. She was stabbed over 60 times in her Minnesota high-rise apartment in 1993. Her case went unsolved for over two decades until advances in investigative genetic genealogy led authorities to arrest Moriarty.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Footprint
Welcome back. In February of 2019, Jerry Westrom was arrested when he was 52 years old and he was charged with the murder of Jeannie Childs. Now, police questioned him for 11 minutes before he asked for an attorney. I want to play a clip of that interview that didn't make it into the show.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Footprint
So this case also had a really sort of interesting piece of evidence that you talked about a little bit earlier, these bloody footprints. And it was the focus for investigators. And at first I thought, oh, what a unique and perfect piece of evidence. But then afterwards I thought, but how do you what do you compare that to? There's no footprint database like there is for fingerprints.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Footprint
In August of 2022, Jerry Westrom went on trial for Jeannie Chow's murder. Now, the jury heard from a defense witness who told police that she saw Jeannie Childs with a blonde man wearing a trench coat on the day she was murdered. But I'm wondering if there were any other suspects that the jury did not get a chance to hear about. So I had mentioned Arthur Gray.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Footprint
a local businessman and father. His name is Jerry Westrom. Erin, thanks again for joining us.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Could Angela Prichard Have Been Saved?
What about Angela's family? How are they doing?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Could Angela Prichard Have Been Saved?
What should have happened with this case?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Could Angela Prichard Have Been Saved?
Very well said. As you guys know, we talk about justice. There's never really sort of justice in a case like this. But people should know that there are a ton of resources out there. Everyone should know about the National Domestic Violence Hotline. And if you go to their website, if you call the number 800-799-7233, there are all sorts of options available for you.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Could Angela Prichard Have Been Saved?
So you do not have to live in terror. Jonathan and Meena, I want to thank you guys so much.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Could Angela Prichard Have Been Saved?
Indeed. Absolutely. You know, I wanted to try to understand this case sort of in a greater context. And so I kind of dug into the statistics about these types of protective orders, these orders to stay away from the victim. And one of the things that I found is it's really hard to get solid information. A lot of the information about domestic violence is old.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Could Angela Prichard Have Been Saved?
I think the kind of overwhelming conclusion though about these types of orders is that they can be very effective if they're enforced. I'm sure this came up in your reporting as you were talking to people. How did they feel about the weight of these types of protective orders?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Could Angela Prichard Have Been Saved?
After the murder trial, Angela's family filed a federal lawsuit against the city of Bellevue, as well as three police officers for what they say was inaction and indifference by not arresting Christopher Pritchard sooner. So joining me today to talk about this, to dig in a little bit more, is CBS News correspondent Jonathan Vigliotti and 48 Hours producer Meade Stone. Welcome, guys.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Could Angela Prichard Have Been Saved?
You know, sometimes victims of domestic violence, they have been alienated from their support system or they are embarrassed to share what they're going through. This is not the case with Angela. Her family is very supportive. You know, they basically become like protective detail. Her sister, Wendy, is her shadow. This must have had a tremendous impact on the family.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Could Angela Prichard Have Been Saved?
The thing is that Chris Pritchard was not always like this. Relationships don't typically start off like this, right? In fact, Wendy... liked him. Wendy introduced him to her sister. But then he starts to take this kind of downward spiral. And we learn in the hour that it seems to begin once he is brought up on charges, accused of stealing from his employer. It's $36,000.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Could Angela Prichard Have Been Saved?
So it's not a little bit. But can you tell me a little bit more about that case?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Could Angela Prichard Have Been Saved?
Too much. was expected and put on Angela to protect herself. And ultimately, in the end, it is her who identifies the suspect, right? Chris shows up with a gun at her workplace. We want to play that 911 call, but we just want to warn you that this is disturbing to listen to. Please. Hello?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Could Angela Prichard Have Been Saved?
So a reminder to everyone, as usual, if you haven't already listened to the 48 Hours episode, the audio version of it, you can find it in your podcast feed right above this one. So go listen and then come on back so we can talk about it. All right. So I think what is particularly tragic about this case, guys, is that it really, really seemed preventable.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Could Angela Prichard Have Been Saved?
Welcome back. So I want to talk a little bit more about why police were convinced that this wasn't an accident.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Could Angela Prichard Have Been Saved?
He takes off into the woods. But news of this spreads like wildfire because Bellevue's a small town. So then he shows up at a friend's house. Yeah. He shows up at Jeff Junk and his girlfriend, Kim Klein. They're at home. They already know what's going on. And... They just completely play it cool. And they invite him in and he has a drink. You spoke to them. I mean, what was this like for them?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Could Angela Prichard Have Been Saved?
It seemed like Angela really did all the things that you're supposed to do. She endured months of domestic violence. And then Angela Pritchard obtained a no contact order against Chris Pritchard, meaning that if there was any contact that he made with her, It could result in a mandatory arrest. Here's the question. If Angela's no contact order had been enforced in a better way,
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Could Angela Prichard Have Been Saved?
Right. He pleads not guilty to first degree murder and robbery charges. In February of 2024, a jury took less than an hour to find him guilty of both charges. And then about a month later, he is sentenced to life in prison without parole. But the hour does not end there.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Could Angela Prichard Have Been Saved?
Welcome back to another episode of Postmortem. I'm your host, Anne-Marie Green, and today we are discussing the case of Angela Pritchard, who was shot dead by her estranged husband in 2022 following weeks of stalking and harassment, all of which she reported to the local police in Bellevue, Iowa.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Could Angela Prichard Have Been Saved?
There is a second court case in this hour, which is very fascinating to me, a federal lawsuit that civil rights attorney David O'Brien, who we mentioned a little bit earlier, filed against the city of Bellevue and three of the officers who work for the city, work for the police department there, for failure to arrest Chris Pritchard leading up to Angela's murder.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Could Angela Prichard Have Been Saved?
At the end of the hour, though, we learn that the judge overseeing this case dismisses it. Can you tell us a little bit more about why this case was dismissed?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Justine’s Voice
Welcome back to Postmortem. I'm your host, Anne-Marie Green. And today we're going to be discussing the case of Justine Vandershoot, who in 2003 went missing from her parents' home in Auburn, California. Now, law enforcement quickly suspected Justine's boyfriend and his roommate. With me here to discuss this case is 48 Hours correspondent, Natalie Morales, and producer, Guyane Kachetian-Mendez.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Justine’s Voice
It really made me kind of question myself. Have I had these conversations with my daughter? Should I? What's the language I should be using? I just, and I thought, you know, it's not a conversation that my mom ever had with me about toxic relationships and red flags, but it may be time to have. that conversation.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Justine’s Voice
Absolutely. And it absolutely will. Natalie, Diane, thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. If you like this series, Postmortem, please rate and review 48 Hours on Apple Podcasts and follow 48 Hours wherever you get your podcasts. You can also listen ad-free with the 48 Hours Plus subscription on Apple Podcasts. Thanks again for listening.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Justine’s Voice
And I learned something about you, Natalie. I did not know that you were an equestrian yourself. And the horses are pretty interesting as well.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Justine’s Voice
When I saw kind of the image of the debris, I thought, is that a mattress? What is that? And then I thought, how do you even get stuff out there? You know, what was this place like back then?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Justine’s Voice
So let's talk about the suspects because police, you know, identify them pretty quickly. Danny Besimer and Brandon Fernandez. It's not uncommon for investigators to look immediately to a boyfriend or a partner. A little less common for them to also suspect the roommate. Right. You know, tell me about these two guys.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Justine’s Voice
Thank you so much for joining us again, ladies. Good to be with you, Anne-Marie. Thanks for having us. So listen, as usual, everyone, a reminder to you that if you haven't listened to this 48 hours episode, you can certainly find the full audio version just below this episode in your podcast feed.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Justine’s Voice
A fascination with violence. Have they been in trouble with the law before? Because that is quite a leap to go from having a fascination with murder and actually committing one.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Justine’s Voice
So initially, Danny and Brandon say they're each other's alibis, right? And that doesn't work out for them. So then Danny claims that Brandon was the mastermind of Justine's murder. And Brandon claimed that he had just participated in the cleanup and, you know, the cover up in the weeks afterwards. So let's talk about this four and a half hour interrogation between Brandon and the FBI.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Justine’s Voice
So go take a listen or go watch it wherever you get your 48 hours and then come on back for this conversation. You start the hour with a conversation with Matt Scribner. He's the equestrian who had actually first spotted, first a freshly dug hole in the ground, and later he goes back and it looks a lot different. You're on horseback. And I think that's something that maybe...
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Justine’s Voice
First, he says he saw Justine after she was dead. And then he describes her breathing, which would indicate that she was actually alive as she was breathing. So he must have seen her while she was alive as well. And then at the end of this interrogation, he writes one letter to Justine and one letter to her parents and reads it to investigators. Did not make it into the hour.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Justine’s Voice
Welcome back, everyone. Danny Besimer and Brandon Fernandez ultimately took plea deals, and they're currently serving life sentences in prison. What was it like for Justine's family to realize that this young man... that they welcomed into their home. It was nothing like who he had presented himself to be to them.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Justine’s Voice
You guys use a lot of the local news coverage from when she initially was missing. I thought it was so unnerving because you see him, right? You see Danny, uh, And we've seen this before, you know, appealing to the cameras for help. But he's not just doing that. He's trying to throw investigators off. And he does it flawlessly. He doesn't look nervous.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Justine’s Voice
might be missed, is that this is an area that's actually kind of hard to get to.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Justine’s Voice
But that is the argument that Brandon Fernandez is still using, that his sentence should be adjusted, which brings us to sort of the other part of this hour, right? A change in the law. You mentioned the hour. In 2018, the California law was changed to reduce the fault of defendants who didn't actually commit the murder. Let's just explain, you know, the change in the law.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Justine’s Voice
And so as a result, the Vandershoots have had to kind of like reopen this wound over and over and over again.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The “Batman” Intruder
Oh, yes. Maybe they didn't think they could get a conviction on an attempted murder charge, but they did get a deal. Rob Metzer was offered a plea deal and he accepted it. So they didn't have to go through a trial. And he got a pretty hefty sentence, right? 25 years in prison with an additional 45 years of probation.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The “Batman” Intruder
25 years is a long time, but he's still going to be, you know, a middle-aged man when he gets out. Is Morgan concerned about her safety? I asked her sort of just how she's feeling, you know.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The “Batman” Intruder
It seems that way. Yes. Did she talk about what kind of father he was? She did say during the interview that he was a good father. The thing with these cases is there's never a good answer to why. But why would you mess up that relationship as well?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The “Batman” Intruder
Absolutely. Absolutely. So one of the things that you managed to do is you actually interviewed Rod's mom. And I want to talk a little bit more about that. I'm curious if the kids have a relationship with his family.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The “Batman” Intruder
I'm not sure. Yeah, because she would have known Morgan all this time, too, since Morgan was 14. It's got to be heartbreaking. I'm glad she spoke, because I think often when we see cases like this, you do think, well, what kind of family did that person come from? And it's clear that she loves her son. Why do you think she spoke to 48 Hours? What did she want to get across?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The “Batman” Intruder
Welcome back to Postmortem. I'm your host, Anne-Marie Green. And today we're discussing the case of Morgan Metzer, who was assaulted in her home by an intruder. But incredibly, she survived to tell the story. And she also brought justice to her assailant. So joining me today is CBS News correspondent Nikki Batiste and associate producer Mike Loftus. Welcome, guys. Thanks for having us.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The “Batman” Intruder
Morgan is incredibly courageous telling this story. She does not have to do this. I'm sure she wants to go on with her life. How is Morgan doing right now?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The “Batman” Intruder
I mean, I could really see her doing it because I thought to myself in the interviews with you that she looks remarkably well for someone who has gone through such trauma. And I think what I saw was strength.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The “Batman” Intruder
Exactly. It's a good reminder. Do not ignore the little red flags because they can become big red flags. And in this case, she's really lucky to be alive. Very lucky to be alive. Yeah. Well, thank you, both of you, for helping her tell her story. And it's always great having you guys here. Thanks. Thanks, Emery. Thanks. Thanks for having us.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The “Batman” Intruder
If you like this series, Postmortem, please rate and review 48 Hours on Apple Podcasts and follow 48 Hours wherever you get your podcasts. And you can also listen ad-free on Amazon Music, Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, or with a 48 Hours Plus subscription on Apple Podcasts. Thanks again for listening.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The “Batman” Intruder
And remember, if you haven't listened to the 48 Hours episode yet, you can find the full audio version just below this episode in your podcast feed. So go ahead and take a listen and then come on back for the conversation. Morgan and Rod Metzer, they are childhood sweethearts. They meet when she's 14.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The “Batman” Intruder
He is 17, which I thought was a little old because, you know, at that age, that's quite an age gap. But nonetheless, they fall in love. They date for quite a long time. They get married when they're in their early 20s and then they have twins. But then Morgan said Rod starts to become abusive and Morgan falls for divorce.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The “Batman” Intruder
And then weeks after the divorce was finalized, Rod says to her, I have pancreatic cancer. And then we find out in the hour that he lied about pancreatic cancer. Who lies about that? Did Morgan think that he faked the cancer diagnosis in order to persuade her to get back together with him?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The “Batman” Intruder
I mean, cancer, and particularly pancreatic cancer, is a tough, tough battle. I don't know... If he had like a long term plan, I don't think it's easy to sort of fake pancreatic cancer treatment. You're going to look sick. You're going to be tired.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The “Batman” Intruder
Yeah, his searches were like a treasure trove, as we learn as the hour sort of unfolds. So this case is particularly different. For 48 hours... Not only because Morgan survived, but also because she details how much Rod was gaslighting her. Can we talk a little bit more about gaslighting and what was Morgan experiencing?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The “Batman” Intruder
Well, when I think about the fact that they met when she was just 14, and I know he was a teenager as well, you know, you sort of have to take into account that they have grown up together. And so she's... gone from being a young teen to an adult woman with this person influencing her the whole time, for better or for worse.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The “Batman” Intruder
And so I wouldn't be surprised if, you know, what we hear in the hour are some pretty egregious examples of gaslighting, but I'm sure there were probably little things happening all along, you know, over the years that maybe she did pick up on, maybe she didn't, maybe she just got used to. Yes, I think she has told us that
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The “Batman” Intruder
Wow. All right. So let's go to the night of the attack. It's New Year's Eve of 2020. Morgan was sleeping in her bed. But then she wakes up in the middle of the night and there's a figure standing in her door. And according to Morgan, he had a voice like Batman. Ron starts beating her and then he ties her hands with zip ties before sexually assaulting her. Morgan said he strangles her twice.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The “Batman” Intruder
until she nearly passed out during the attack. And after this sort of mystery intruder left, Morgan's ex-husband, Rod, then shows up. He calls 911. I want to play an extended clip of the 911 call that wasn't in the show.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The “Batman” Intruder
Oh, see, I did not pick up on that. But that totally makes sense. You know, name and address and the condition, what help she needs. That's the sort of stuff you would be talking about.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The “Batman” Intruder
Fascinating. Bad move. Yeah. One of many, it turns out, as the hour unfolds. In the hour, Morgan said that she suspected the intruder actually could be her ex-husband when he picked her up. And she said it really felt familiar because he had done that before when she was pregnant. But was that the first time that she suspected it could be Rod?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The “Batman” Intruder
Because the thing about this assault that struck me is that it was really violent. You know, we've seen cases where people have sort of done something similar, you know, pretended to be an intruder. But typically, if the victim is someone they care about, they're not that violent, right?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The “Batman” Intruder
I mean, he could have killed her. I couldn't quite figure out how he thought this was going to end.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The “Batman” Intruder
Investigators, of course, go through Rod's phone while they're at the scene and they find photos of Morgan on his phone that appear to be taken without her consent. This is in the hidden folder. If you have an iPhone. There is a folder literally labeled hidden when you go through your folders. And if you are hiding evidence there, it will be found. Yeah, it's not the best place.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The “Batman” Intruder
Not the best place. So there are these photos of Morgan. They're able to arrest him for invasion of privacy because of that. They do this in order to get him in custody so that he does not destroy any additional evidence. Is that sort of a common practice, like if you can nab a suspect on something else? And what did you think of that tactic?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The “Batman” Intruder
Welcome back, everyone. Two days after Morgan's attack, sergeants interviewed Rod Metzer. Now, we saw portions of this interview in the hour where Rod is actually argumentative with the investigators. He's trying to get the upper hand, almost trying to intimidate them. What was your reaction to his behavior during the police interview? Yeah.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The “Batman” Intruder
That was the biggie. I felt like a lot of the other evidence he could have made an excuse for. But why do you need zip ties?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The “Batman” Intruder
Yeah. Speaking of the evidence, investigators found Rod's browser history and that he searched. And this is a quote. How long to choke someone unconscious? Rod was ultimately charged with 10 counts relating to the attack, including kidnapping, aggravated assault, sexual battery. How come he wasn't charged with attempted murder?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Day My Mother Never Came Home
We want to remind everyone that if you haven't checked out this episode of 48 Hours, head on over to the podcast feed and look right before this, and you'll see the episode. Go over and listen, and then come on back, and we're going to talk a little bit more about it. All right, Vlad, let's get into this. Back in 1987—
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Day My Mother Never Came Home
So they say there was a lot of evidence that they just couldn't present, that the jury didn't hear. Like what?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Day My Mother Never Came Home
He said $700,000 worth of reasons to kill this woman.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Day My Mother Never Came Home
It was a lot more money, you know, 30 years ago. So what happened with that money?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Day My Mother Never Came Home
His dad is convicted, right? A jury finds Reginald Reed guilty on November 18th, 2022. He's guilty of second degree murder. And here's the thing, that he remains connected to his father, but he is not connected to his mother's family. Sonia's sister, Gwen Smith, says she's worried about him. Why does he not have a connection to his mother's side?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Day My Mother Never Came Home
There were actually already a couple of pieces of evidence that pointed to Reginald Sr., right? There was a witness. A witness that came forward spotted Reginald and spotted his friend, Jimmy Ray Barnes, at the crime scene that night that she was murdered. The witness wrote down his license plate.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Day My Mother Never Came Home
Yeah. You know, we want to believe everything. often as humans, that people can be all one thing, that we can put them in a box. And for Reginald, you know, his father is not all one thing. And whether he believes that he killed his mother or not, that's not all he is to Reginald. And you can see that this will be, you know, a lifelong struggle for him wrestling with this.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Day My Mother Never Came Home
Wow. It's a great hour, Vlad. It's an incredible story, and you did an excellent job.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Day My Mother Never Came Home
Investigators also discovered that Reginald had taken out several life insurance policies on her leading up to the murder. If you watch 48 Hours, you know, life insurance policies like that's always, you know, that's always a little suspect. That's a red flag. Why wasn't he charged in the very beginning?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Day My Mother Never Came Home
Absolutely. So thank you for joining us. Thanks, Anne-Marie. And I want to remind the listeners that if you like this series, Postmortem, please rate and review 48 Hours on Apple Podcasts. And you can also follow 48 Hours wherever you get your podcasts. And you can listen to ad free with a 48 Hours plus subscription on Apple Podcasts. Thanks again for listening.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Day My Mother Never Came Home
You flash forward, right? And then there's new evidence that's discovered. At the crime scene, police found Winston cigarettes or a cigarette. In 2012, Lieutenant Ward was finally able to test what he found. And they get a match, right, in CODIS. which is the FBI's national DNA database. There is a twist, though, because the match is to Billy Ray Barnes, the twin brother of Jimmy Ray Barnes.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Day My Mother Never Came Home
And, of course, the witness identified Jimmy. So when I saw that in the hour, I thought this is where the twist is going to come in to tell you the truth, because I knew with identical twins, they have the same DNA, and that could be quite complicated.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Day My Mother Never Came Home
Mm hmm. So then was Billy Ray Barnes ever suspect in this case?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Day My Mother Never Came Home
What is really kind of unique, I think, about this 48 Hours episode is that so much of it is told through the lens of Reggie Jr., who was a child, a small child. He was only six years old. And watching him in the police video is just heartbreaking.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Day My Mother Never Came Home
Welcome back to 48 Hours Postmortem. I'm your host, Anne-Marie Green. And today we're talking to CBS News national correspondent, Vladimir Dutier, about the murder of Salonia Reed in Hammond, Louisiana, in 1987. Salonia's husband, Reginald, said that she went out to a local bar with a girlfriend and that she never came back home.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Day My Mother Never Came Home
He is leaning on his father, right, to show him some sort of tenderness because that's his safe island. And I just found myself sort of reading everything into his father's body language, internally yelling at the screen, saying, hug him, hold him, protect him, do something.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Day My Mother Never Came Home
So you fast forward to 2012, right? And Reggie Jr., he's 31 years old. He's living in Texas. Out of the blue, Texas Rangers come to his door and they tell him something he has never considered in his life. That his father is a suspect, the main suspect in his mother's murder. They're from a small town. We know, I mean, people talk. Reggie Jr. had never heard this at all?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Day My Mother Never Came Home
And his father actually sort of, in a way, kind of rearranged his life. Like, he moved into another school and everything, right?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Day My Mother Never Came Home
So we'll talk a little bit about Hammond, right? It's a town in the South.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Day My Mother Never Came Home
Reginald filed a missing persons report the next day and gave a description of the car that she drove. Well, shortly after that, a patrol officer discovered Salonia's car parked at a nearby grocery store. Inside, they found her body. She had been stabbed 16 times. Salonia's son, Reggie Jr., was only six years old at the time, and for over three decades, her murder went unsolved.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Day My Mother Never Came Home
Right. Sort of the pros and cons of kind of a small town community, right? You love that familiarity. And then sort of on the flip side, though, here you have the situation where this... insurance agent probably risked his own license. I mean, because you're not supposed to do that. People are supposed to know when someone's taken out a life insurance policy on them.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Day My Mother Never Came Home
Welcome back. So Lieutenant Ward's investigation really did a lot to push the case forward. But he still could not get a DA to actually charge Reginald Reed until prosecutor Taylor Anthony got on the case. And this is in 2018 now. And he actually went with Lieutenant Ward to Atlanta to offer Jimmy Ray Barnes a deal to testify in court. Now, just so people know, DAs don't do that.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Day My Mother Never Came Home
They sit in their office. Police present the evidence to them and they say thumbs up or thumbs down or go out and get more evidence. But they don't go out. How unusual was this?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Day My Mother Never Came Home
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. They do not get Jimmy Ray Barnes to agree, though. They can't convince him.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Day My Mother Never Came Home
And then in 2012, 25 years after the murder, Reggie was shocked to learn that his own father was a prime suspect in the case. So, Vlad, thanks for joining us today.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Day My Mother Never Came Home
Yeah, I mean, when they come knocking the first time around, that's probably the best deal you're going to get. So Reginald Reed's trial, murder trial, begins November 14th, 2022. It is more than 30 years after Salonia's murder. He was defended by a mother-daughter team, Vanessa Williams, very memorable name, and LaToya Williams-Simon.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Day My Mother Never Came Home
I don't think I've ever seen a mother-daughter defense duo before. What were they like?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Day My Mother Never Came Home
Okay. At first I thought they went to law school at the same time, but she's got a little kid doing her little kid homework and she's doing her law school homework. Exactly.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Day My Mother Never Came Home
Did you get the sense from them that they felt this is a bad case, like a poor case against him, or this guy didn't do it? He's being railroaded.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Deputy Spivey on Trial
The jury deliberated for 12 hours over two days, found Renard Spivey not guilty. Well, it certainly surprised me only because it doesn't often happen on 48 hours. Do you expect that viewers were also surprised?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Deputy Spivey on Trial
I mean, I thought to myself, I'm going to take a look at how many other cases this particular type of gun is involved in, because it seems like a particularly dangerous design. If you're trained and he would have been, perhaps you can handle it. But I would think there's a lot of people who can't handle a gun like that. Yes.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Deputy Spivey on Trial
Well, we're glad you're safe. And let's cross our fingers that this gets under control and everyone else remains safe as well. Thank you. And just a reminder for everyone, you know, I say this every time. If you have not watched the episode yet, this episode of 48 Hours, you can find the full audio version of it just below this episode in your podcast feed.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Deputy Spivey on Trial
Wow. So you spoke to Renard's twin sister, Renee, and she said there are really no winners at all in this case. Renard's life will never be the same. Patricia, of course, lost her life. What was it like talking to Patricia's family and how are they coping, considering not only are they dealing with the loss of Patricia, but also this case did not turn out the way they believed it should have?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Deputy Spivey on Trial
Well, you know, you always wonder why people are willing to talk to us here at 48 Hours. And I hope in her case, it was therapeutic. that this is the beginning of some sort of journey towards healing for her. But I was quite struck by the fact that she was caught off guard, that there were tears.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Deputy Spivey on Trial
So go take a listen to it and then come on back and we will talk. All right. What I think was really interesting about this episode is just how much security video you had from inside the home. I've always wondered who these people are that just run security cameras in their home all the time, in the kitchen of all places.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Deputy Spivey on Trial
We'll see what happens. It was a really well-told hour. You guys did an excellent job. And thanks for joining us.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Deputy Spivey on Trial
If you like this series, Postmortem, please rate and review 48 Hours on Apple Podcasts and follow 48 Hours wherever you get your podcasts. You can also listen ad-free on Amazon Music, Wondry Plus, and the Wondry app, or with a 48 Hours Plus subscription on Apple Podcasts. Thanks again for listening.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Deputy Spivey on Trial
So because of this, we can actually hear the shooting, but we don't see the shooting. Patricia's family, they believe that she was murdered, but Renard said that it was an accident. Was it a challenge for you all to make sure that you presented both sides of the story?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Deputy Spivey on Trial
And so you guys really studied the surveillance footage really closely. I know what sort of struck me, which has nothing necessarily to do with the case, was just how ordinary it seemed like the hours leading up to this were, you know, going to the fridge, grabbing a drink. It's like very ordinary. What was unusual about the footage leading up to the shooting?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Deputy Spivey on Trial
But this is one of my the challenge that I had with his story is that it just seemed like there wasn't a lot of time. We see him go out to the kitchen to say goodnight to her. Then he according to him, he's sort of rebuffed and he goes back in and he says he waited for her to fall asleep. It just didn't seem like enough time had gone by.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Deputy Spivey on Trial
Welcome back to Postmortem. I'm your host, Anne-Marie Green. And today we are discussing the case of Patricia Spivey, whose husband, Renard, is a former sheriff's deputy. He was also known for playing a bailiff on TV. He was charged in 2019 with murdering Patricia in the home that they built together. So joining me now is CBS News correspondent Natalie Morales and 48 Hours producer Asena Bashak.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Deputy Spivey on Trial
Right. You can see why that would raise a little bit of suspicion. And then the surveillance cameras, they also catch moments after the shooting when Renard has called 911. We see him take a break from CPR to unlock the garage door. I want to play a clip of that 911 call. It wasn't part of the show, so this is new for people. When the operator hears his home security system disarming.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Deputy Spivey on Trial
Yeah, that makes sense why he would be sort of groaning as much as he is because he's shot in the leg and now he's trying to walk, you know, to the garage. Um, this is what I'll say. I kind of went back and forth. And part of the reason why I went back and forth is because I actually found him very believable. Have you interviewed people who've been accused of murder before?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Deputy Spivey on Trial
And was he sort of any different or the same or what jumped out at you guys? He genuinely...
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Deputy Spivey on Trial
Welcome back. Let us dig into some of the evidence in this case. The trigger of the gun that was used to fatally shoot Patricia, it was never swabbed for DNA. Why not?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Deputy Spivey on Trial
Welcome. Thank you, Anne-Marie. Good to be with you. Thanks for having us. So I should point out to everyone that we're actually recording this at a pretty high stress time. For you, Natalie, there are several wildfires burning out of control in the Los Angeles area and not too far from where you are, Natalie.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Deputy Spivey on Trial
Yeah, I can definitely see that. So it was still unclear the amount of times that Patricia was shot.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Deputy Spivey on Trial
So I want to talk about another person you interviewed, Patricia's friend, Ezra. He took the stand, had pretty damning testimony about their relationship, but also Renard. He told you in an interview that he had multiple phone conversations with Renard in the hours before the shooting and that Renard admitted to taking steroids and said that Patricia wanted a divorce.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Deputy Spivey on Trial
But at trial, the prosecutor did not present phone records to prove this. How did Ezra's testimony hold up at trial?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Deputy Spivey on Trial
So Ezra was the only one that I am aware of that spoke about steroid use. But when you talked to her cousin and to her daughter, did they also indicate that, you know, there were problems in the relationship to this degree?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Facing a Monster
She was a huge Yankees fan. So including that and gave each of the kids a quilt for them to kind of like cuddle up and remember their mother by, which I thought was such a great gift. So sweet. But he was so committed to solving this. And he was so committed to those boys. He had pictures of the boys in his office. He would call the family on a regular basis.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Facing a Monster
So, you know, Natalie, I think that we're both parents and you kind of hope that there'll be an adult in your kid's life that is like parent adjacent. Right. So that's the kind of relationship that he had with his aunt. Like Lori was his kind of other parent. You know, he adored her. And so, you know, losing her was devastating.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Facing a Monster
There were so many similarities in the attacks that it was really kind of showing this is a pattern. So I think that was a big win for the prosecution to certainly have that opportunity. And yeah, the prosecutor, you know, you heard him in the story. He said, we saved the best for last. And CeCe was kind of the final witness. The first witness was Lori's mom, who has since passed away.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Facing a Monster
But CeCe brought it home. I mean, if you're a jury and they show you you know, your early girlfriend. And that was your behavior back then when she broke up with you. That's kind of the lingering message that the prosecutor wanted the jury to to sit with.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Facing a Monster
You know, she had been scared before and she was not scared. CeCe said she really wanted to look at him. He looked completely different. You know, no more like tough guy, bald head bandana.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Facing a Monster
And so, yeah, it was very empowering to sit in front of him and and sit in front of him fearlessly.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Facing a Monster
Yeah, it's very interesting. So here's what I have learned about the state of New York when it comes to first degree murder. And you're right. First degree murder typically considers premeditation. The prosecution must prove that the defendant committed the murder with at least one of these factors. Yes, I'm reading this. And a few examples of what an aggravating factor might be.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Facing a Monster
The victim was a police officer. The murder was committed while the defendant was serving a life sentence already imprisoned. The murder was committed for hire. The murder is committed in the course of another felony, like maybe robbing a bank. So it didn't quite fit together. And the first degree murder charge, which, of course, was upsetting to Lori's family.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Facing a Monster
You know, they said they wanted to see a harsher penalty. They they didn't want the possibility of parole. You know, the parole process begins in 2030, which is like really not that far away.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Facing a Monster
And she's spot on. It pains me so much that she felt guilty for so long because she was just a kid. How could she know? It totally changed the trajectory of her life. She left the college she was going to. She moved as far away as possible from New York. She eventually ended up in California. You know, she went to law school because somebody suggested maybe she might like law.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Facing a Monster
And then she just went and she was good at it. And she's a successful entrepreneur now. But you can see the impact of this trauma today.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Facing a Monster
Natalie, I don't know about you, but one of the questions that I always have when I watch true crime is, you know, I always want to know, well, how did we get here? How did this person end up like this? So here we had an opportunity to start from the very beginning. And a huge part of the story has to do with Sean Doyle's history of domestic violence.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Facing a Monster
And we were lucky enough to have Cece be willing to talk to us. She was his high school girlfriend. And we're able to paint this picture of how his pattern of violence got worse and worse and worse over the years. The challenge, I think, a little bit is that normally we have, you know, one victim and the people who are impacted by them.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Facing a Monster
In this case, we had three different victims with two victims who survived with different approaches to the trauma. And for Cece, it took decades for her to feel strong enough to talk publicly about what happened to her. And having her come forward, I think, was part of the reason why we thought we need to start with her.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Facing a Monster
It seemed like the best way to tell this story was from the very beginning, which was with Cece.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Facing a Monster
They are in touch again now. You've probably seen this before with some of the hours that you've worked on, that sometimes actually getting involved with the 48-hour story brings people back together. But they hadn't been talking for a while.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Facing a Monster
I found Shannon so fascinating and I could not understand how a teenager was so intuitive because when she tells the story of that phone call, I mean, the cues are so subtle. I couldn't understand if she could pick this up. But I asked her over and over again, but how did you know? How did you know? How did you know something was going wrong?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Facing a Monster
And then finally she said, well, I've seen this sort of thing within a family member. And I was like, there you go. That's why it makes sense. If anyone else had been hanging out with Cece that day. They might not have picked up on it. She was clued in on it because she knew the signs to look for.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Facing a Monster
I mean, I don't know how unusual it was back then. It seems stunning that, you know, law enforcement would do that from this vantage point. And certainly our producer spoke to the current police chief of the Hudson Falls Police Department. And he said, look, it sounds terrible. We would never do anything like that now. You know, we are trained. We know how to handle victims.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Facing a Monster
And he was really, you know, sympathetic about. to what Cece went through. And she just sort of felt like, you know, the officers then, they kind of treated it like a lover's quarrel. They weren't taking it seriously. She couldn't understand because she said, you know, she had bruises, her hair was cut. It was obvious that this wasn't a little sort of teenage spat.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Facing a Monster
It was something much more serious. You know, decades ago, the way domestic violence was viewed was at times very different. Things have changed, thankfully.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Facing a Monster
And it was it was bad, Natalie. Like, you know, we have this archival footage. We can see the interview that she did with the local news station in Albany. And she's kind of relaying these facts here. her experience in a really matter-of-fact way, it sounded terrifying. She's in the bedroom. He ties her up. He uses duct tape. It is stunning that she survived.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Facing a Monster
And this happens and her mother walks in the room. And that's what ends this horrible, violent assault.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Facing a Monster
So in terms of Doyle's charge, he was only charged with two misdemeanor assault and imprisonment charges. And basically, and I'm going to just kind of refer to my notes because I don't want to get it wrong. The punishment guidelines are much, much less for these two charges. So in 2005, a local reporter by the name of Don Lehman, you saw him in the hour. He asked the district attorney at the time.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Facing a Monster
His name is Robert Wynn. You know why these charges? He said that the allegations did not fit the criteria for more serious charges like felony assault or felony murder. unlawful imprisonment. And without a felony charge, there wasn't much of a possibility for a lengthy prison term. I can see you shaking your head, Natalie, because I know.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Facing a Monster
Absolutely. And when you see what he did with Sarah, you see that he was well on his way because he used some of the same techniques that he used with Lori.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Facing a Monster
Look, I don't have a psychology degree or anything like that, but I think that it gives you a little hint as to sort of the charm that Sean Doyle could have when he needed to turn it on. There's obviously another side to Sean Doyle. Dorothy, and I really should pronounce her name Dorothy with a sort of a sound because that's how she pronounced it.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Facing a Monster
Yeah, 100 percent. Her husband, her ex-husband now was friends with Sean Doyle. And so he would come around and they would, you know, hang out together. And then she took him under custody. her wing, like kind of a maternal figure. You know, he would come in and ask her for advice on his love life, his home life, his family. She liked him. So, you know, she believed Sean Doyle until she didn't.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Facing a Monster
And then when police reached out to her after Lori's body was found, I mean, this is a woman that just pays attention to detail. So she just gave them all the information she could remember. She feels absolutely terrible about about the things that she yelled at Lori's family when they were in kind of the middle of town trying to get answers, trying to find her.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Facing a Monster
She absolutely believed that Sean Doyle had nothing to do with it, and they were kind of besmirching his name. And she has lived with that guilt ever since. The defense did not have a lot to work with in this trial, but they did go after Dorothy. She says, that she's got, you know, some intuition. She's got a gift. I don't know if we'd call her psychic, but there's something there.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Facing a Monster
And they went after her about that. You know, the defense attorney said, so you're, you know, a self-proclaimed psychic. And she said, well, I don't know if I would proclaim. And they said, well, what about these books about witchcraft that you have in your house? She said, I have a lot of books.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Facing a Monster
But they tried to kind of, you know, characterize her as this wacky woman who just loves the spotlight. And that's why you're a part of this. But man, she stood firm.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Facing a Monster
So these two young men, they are little kids when Lori is taken away from them. Austin's nine, Zachary's five. You can imagine the psychological burden that these kids are under. And, you know, they start to fight. They're little kids. You know, Zachary will say, you know, I remember when mom did this. And Austin would be like, how can you remember? You were only five. You don't know, mom.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Facing a Monster
You don't know what she was like. And they have now as adults worked their way back. to each other. And they're very grateful that they've rebuilt and continue to rebuild their relationship.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Facing a Monster
It was emotional for you, right? When we talk about how emotional this was, this is the only story that I've ever worked on where everyone cried. Not just the victims. I mean, the police officers, the former district attorney. I mean, everyone teared up and and myself, too. And it was unexpected because, you know, all of these stories are heartbreaking. Right.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Facing a Monster
But I think that I was just thinking exactly as you kind of just mentioned about these boys. Right. and how they miss their mom at this, like, tender age. And we're both parents, so, you know, like, you go, you think about your own kid, and then it's just, it's waterworks. Oh, I know, and I have two boys, so seeing those two, it just crushed me.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Facing a Monster
You know, when they came to do the interview, of course, they brought tons of pictures, and then they brought something that their grandmother had made for them. She took all of Lori's clothes and... And made two quilts for them. Oh, beautiful. Yes. Including the, you know, the Yankees shirt or I don't know if his shirt or jersey, but, you know, she was going to get those Yankees tickets.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Cati Blauvelt: Death of a Soldier’s Wife
Und ein Erinnerung an alle, wenn ihr diese 48 Stunden nicht gesehen oder gehört habt, könnt ihr es in eurem Podcast-Feed unter diesem Video finden. Geht hören und dann kommt zurück, damit wir diese Konversation haben können. Also, ich möchte anfangen, mit dem Thema der Waffe zu sprechen. Es ist ein Knife und es ist nicht ein besonders großer Knife.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Cati Blauvelt: Death of a Soldier’s Wife
So the other really interesting element to this case is that authorities after they track him down, they discover a journal. And he's been writing in this thing now for quite a while. At one point, there's the phrase, I did it. And the prosecution argues that this is him admitting that he killed his wife.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Cati Blauvelt: Death of a Soldier’s Wife
So, the trial lasts only four days. He's found guilty. He's sentenced to life in prison. Where do things go from here with the case?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Cati Blauvelt: Death of a Soldier’s Wife
Well, you know, it was a great hour. I also sort of, it was heartbreaking because I thought to myself, you know, a lot of us get into relationships that are not meant to last. They just don't work out. And you leave. And Katie would have left. I mean, literally after the honeymoon, the writing was on the wall. And because she crossed paths with the wrong person, it has this tragic, tragic end.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Cati Blauvelt: Death of a Soldier’s Wife
Definitely. Well, Peter and Kat, thank you so much. Really appreciate talking to you. Thanks.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Cati Blauvelt: Death of a Soldier’s Wife
Wir sind Theresa und Nemo und deshalb sind wir zu Shopify gewechselt.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Cati Blauvelt: Death of a Soldier’s Wife
Und ich weiß, als ich es gesehen habe, dachte ich mir, You have to get so close to someone to kill them with this knife. It has to be sort of an intimate engagement. Peter, you were in the room with the murder weapon. I'm wondering what it was like. I know you've seen a lot of different pieces of evidence in murder cases, but what was it like to be in the room with this piece of evidence?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Cati Blauvelt: Death of a Soldier’s Wife
And Kat, this was an important piece of evidence, obviously.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Cati Blauvelt: Death of a Soldier’s Wife
So this is another case where people are just not what they seem. And the thing with John is that he's not just in the military, he's a military recruiter. And I thought to myself, you know, you get that position because you have the ability to influence, you have the ability to connect with young people, to convince them that joining the military is going to be something beneficial for them.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Cati Blauvelt: Death of a Soldier’s Wife
So, you know, Natürlich findet Katie John völlig vertraut. Sie wird von ihm gefeuert, so viel so, dass sie sich auch auf ihn einlässt. Viel zu der Überraschung, denke ich, von Katies Mutter. Aber Peter, du hast ein bisschen mit Katies Mutter darüber gesprochen. Und das konnte es nicht in die Stunde machen, also wollen wir diesen Sound spielen.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Cati Blauvelt: Death of a Soldier’s Wife
Hier ist das Wichtigste an ihm. Es war nicht nur Katie, die für ihn geflogen war, in einer Art und Weise. Aber er war auch ein beeindruckender älterer Figur in den Leben anderer Teenager, insbesondere der Frau, die sein Freund Hannah Thompson ist. These teenagers are at his house, hanging out.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Cati Blauvelt: Death of a Soldier’s Wife
Right, right. Yeah, there's got to be sort of a bit of a combination of a personality who looks for vulnerabilities in these kids and then the kids that are vulnerable. I'm sure there are other kids who just thought he was weird and, you know, never went to his house. So, Peter, you actually, you spoke to Captain Cheryl Schofield. You spoke outside of the house there.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Cati Blauvelt: Death of a Soldier’s Wife
But you are nine feet tall. You do not look like Lurch. But Peter Van Zandt is a very tall man.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Cati Blauvelt: Death of a Soldier’s Wife
Let's talk about this investigation then. You know, as far as John Blauvelt's demeanor, he's told about this death and he's brought in for questioning. I know 48 Hours viewers were analyzing every second, every move that he made, the words that he chose. Okay, well, there was a lot going on there in the beginning. He did appear to be distressed.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Cati Blauvelt: Death of a Soldier’s Wife
I mean, we don't know what's going on in his head, but...
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Cati Blauvelt: Death of a Soldier’s Wife
And then he takes off. Ich denke, viele Leute werden sich fragen, hey, wenn du verurteilt wirst, wie kannst du das einfach so verlassen? Aber wenn du nicht verurteilt wirst, dann gibt es keinen Grund, dich zu halten.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Cati Blauvelt: Death of a Soldier’s Wife
Out of curiosity, did any of the investigators speculate about why he would even take Hannah with him? You would think that bringing Hannah would just increase the likelihood of him eventually getting caught.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Cati Blauvelt: Death of a Soldier’s Wife
Welcome back, everyone. So there's another irony in the case, and it comes up when John goes on the run. Peter, you have a really great exchange with a U.S. Marshal, where he makes the point that John had training with the Army, and the government provided this training to him, ironically. And then you sort of interject, right, saying the training was to...
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Cati Blauvelt: Death of a Soldier’s Wife
Welcome back to 48 Hours Postmortem. I'm your host Anne-Marie Green and today we are talking to correspondent Peter Van Sant and field producer Kat Turfs about the case of John Blavelt, a military recruiter found guilty of stabbing his young wife Katie in Simpsonville, South Carolina back in 2016.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Cati Blauvelt: Death of a Soldier’s Wife
Yeah, I too am also a big fan of the Marshalls. I think that the description that you presented was just so spot on. And something that kind of jumped out at me in the hour that I thought would make their job challenging. I don't know if you guys noticed this or not, but I felt like... Blavel looked different in almost every picture you showed.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Cati Blauvelt: Death of a Soldier’s Wife
Like there was one picture where he's got a knit cap and I thought to myself, I could have sworn I dated that guy once.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Cati Blauvelt: Death of a Soldier’s Wife
Because he looked like an ex of mine. He looks like, you put 10 pounds on him, he looks different. You put a beard on him, he looks completely different.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Cati Blauvelt: Death of a Soldier’s Wife
But I just thought, you know, it's like 101. Tattoos are identifiable. You wear long sleeves, you cover it with makeup, you do something. So even though he had all this great training, he also didn't implement everything as well as he could, I suppose.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Cati Blauvelt: Death of a Soldier’s Wife
Richtig. So, yes, we find out that, you know, six years after Blauvelt fled, the U.S. Marshals are able to actually track him down to where he's living with his new girlfriend in Medford, Oregon. How did they actually track him down, though?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Cati Blauvelt: Death of a Soldier’s Wife
However, before authorities had enough evidence to arrest him for murder, he went on the run with his 17-year-old girlfriend, Hannah Thompson. So Peter, Kat, thank you so much for joining us.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | Cati Blauvelt: Death of a Soldier’s Wife
Sie weiß nichts über seinen Vergangenheit. Aber ich dachte mir, sie sagt, dass er niemals das Haus verlässt. Er macht, weißt du, ein paar seltsame Arbeiten.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | It’s About Danni
Welcome to Postmortem. I'm your host, Anne-Marie Green. And today we're discussing the case of Danny Houchens. In September 1996, Danny was found dead near the Gallatin River that's just outside of Bozeman, Montana. After an autopsy declared the manner of death undetermined, the sheriff's department said it could have been an accidental drowning.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | It’s About Danni
Why did investigators originally not release this information?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | It’s About Danni
So turning back to this investigation, once Hutchinson is identified as the suspect, Elfmont and another detective confront him. They make up an excuse to speak to him, but they do say, you know, we're investigating crimes along the rivers in southwest Montana, and we want to talk to you. But they start to focus in on Danny's murder and Hutchinson becomes visibly nervous.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | It’s About Danni
Indeed. Just hours after that interview, Hutchinson drives to a remote area and he shoots himself. When Hutchinson's DNA is ultimately checked against evidence from Danny's body, it is a match. But unfortunately, he is now dead. And so there will be no trial. I just wonder what it was like for Danny's family.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | It’s About Danni
The hour ends in a really beautiful moment that Stephanie allows 48 hours to be there for. She spreads some of her sister's ashes in the Gallatin River. What was that moment like?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | It’s About Danni
Thank you. If you like the series Postmortem, please rate and review 48 Hours on Apple Podcasts and follow 48 Hours wherever you get your podcasts. You can also listen ad-free with the 48 Hours Plus subscription on Apple Podcasts. Thanks again for listening.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | It’s About Danni
I'm glad, Lauren, that you said that they always investigated it as a homicide. But I also think what opportunities were missed if the public knew that that they were looking for someone. Maybe other people were out there at that time. And, you know, they might have seen someone else out there talking to her. But if you don't know, you're looking for another person.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | It’s About Danni
You're not going to, you know, try to help in that manner. Or just the thought that there was a killer on the loose in their small town. Yeah, absolutely.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | It’s About Danni
So, you know, a lot of times when people ask me about working for 48 hours and they say, isn't it sort of depressing to focus on these topics? And I always tell them in every story there are heroes. And there are a few in this story. Dani's sister, Stephanie, is definitely one of them. Lauren, you spent a lot of time talking to her.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | It’s About Danni
She struggled her entire life to accept Dani's death as an accident. She couldn't shake the feeling that that her sister had been murdered. But it wasn't until years later that Stephanie pushed the sheriff's department to reopen the investigation. What prompted her to take action?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | It’s About Danni
In the following years, though, Danny's family tried to move on, but always suspected that her death was no accident. And almost 28 years later, her killer was found. So with me now to discuss this case is 48 Hours correspondent Peter Van Sant and producer Lauren Clark. Welcome.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | It’s About Danni
Right. Another big driving force is Sheriff Dan Springer. In 2021, he's a newly appointed sheriff. And he tells Stephanie, I am making a promise that we will find an answer to this case, which I thought was quite a hefty promise to make. So I want to talk about him and just why Springer decided that this was the cold case that he was going to dig into and he was going to solve.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | It’s About Danni
And then there's another hero in Danny's case. Springer enlists the help of a former investigator, Tom Elfmont. Tom Elfmont was a former LAPD captain. He retires and he moves to Bozeman. How did Springer even find him?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | It’s About Danni
Thanks for having us, Anne-Marie. All right, guys. As usual, remember, if you haven't listened to this episode of 48 Hours, head on over to your podcast feed. You can find the full episode of this case right underneath this podcast that you're listening to right now. Go listen and then come on back so we can have this conversation. All right, let's get into this.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | It’s About Danni
Welcome back, everyone. We are going to dig into the science here. Tom Elfman's investigation really starts to gain momentum when he pushes the Montana State Crime Lab to retest the semen that was found on Danny's clothes with their newest DNA technology.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | It’s About Danni
Now, the lab does manage to get a partial DNA profile, but it didn't match any of the names in their system or in CODIS, which is the FBI's national DNA agency.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | It’s About Danni
database but there were also four rootless male hairs found on danny that were preserved and the private lab was able to extract dna from one of those hairs i didn't realize that that was even a possibility now to tell you the truth because normally you need when we say rootless we're talking about that sort of white bulb that's at the end of a hair when it gets yanked out This didn't have that.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | It’s About Danni
You know, tell me a little bit more about this technology and how they were able to do this.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | It’s About Danni
Which brings me to CeCe Moore, because it's one thing to have a DNA profile, but if you can't match it to a person, then it doesn't really matter. So Elfmont enlists the help of CeCe Moore, an investigative genetic genealogist. She's worked for law enforcement since. to build family trees from DNA samples and identify killers.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | It’s About Danni
One of the things that really stood out to me about this case is the fact that in 1996, the sheriff's department publicly said that there was actually no indication of foul play here with Danny's death. They withheld details from the coroner's report that said that Danny had inhaled water and mud, that she had cuts and bruises on her body, and there were signs of a possible sexual assault.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | It’s About Danni
So in 2024, Cece was able to identify several family members who were related to this DNA profile. Eventually, though, she zeroes in on Paul Hutchinson because he's posted on Facebook that he moved to Montana in 1996 and he moved to Bozeman. And this is just months before Danny is murdered.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | It’s About Danni
First off, what was the moment like for CeCe Moore when she realized, here are all the dots, and now the lines are like, I have a picture?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | It’s About Danni
So let's talk a little bit about these public DNA databases, because I think some people, they wanted to, you know, see if they were related to the Queen of England or something like that. So they signed up for Ancestry. We're not talking about a database necessarily like that.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | It’s About Danni
So as Peter pointed out, the suspect... Paul Hutchinson, he's well-respected. He's working for the Bureau of Land Management in Montana. He also has no criminal record. So he's definitely managed to stay under the radar for many, many years. I know I thought there's no way that this is the only thing this guy has ever done because it's, you know, it's a murder and a sexual assault.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | A Day Care Worker Convicted of Murder
Welcome back to Postmortem. I'm your host, Anne-Marie Green. And today we're looking at the case of Melissa Koyuzinski. She was a daycare worker who was convicted of murder in 2009 in the death of a 16-month-old baby boy, Benjamin Kingen. Now, Melissa remains in prison, and she's already served 16 of the 31-year sentence that she received. But she's long insisted that she is innocent.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | A Day Care Worker Convicted of Murder
So there's that. Do we know ultimately why it was shut down?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | A Day Care Worker Convicted of Murder
The latest hour is 48, fourth installment on Melissa's case. And I know that your team will continue to follow with all kinds of updates, but where are we now in this case? What are the next steps?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | A Day Care Worker Convicted of Murder
Absolutely. I thought it was really important to show Benjamin's family. This was devastating for everyone that loved him. And you also obviously talked to Melissa's parents, and they have worked tirelessly to free their daughter. And they actually have her bedroom exactly the same way that it was. What was it like speaking to them and visiting that bedroom?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | A Day Care Worker Convicted of Murder
Yeah, absolutely. Well, it's a great hour and I know you guys are going to stay on this case. I'm curious to see how things continue to develop and unfold as this case moves forward. So Stephanie, Erin, thank you very much.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | A Day Care Worker Convicted of Murder
So once again, everyone, if you like this series Postmortem, please rate and review 48 Hours on Apple Podcasts and follow 48 Hours wherever you get your podcasts. And you can also listen ad-free with the 48 Hours Plus subscription on Apple Podcasts. Thanks again for listening.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | A Day Care Worker Convicted of Murder
So, in fact, in the hour, we see a portion of this very long, intense police interrogation. Melissa repeatedly claims, and we're talking about more than 60 times, that she did not hurt Benjamin. But then after nine hours, she admits to throwing him forcefully on the floor. So I want to play an extended clip of that interrogation.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | A Day Care Worker Convicted of Murder
Well, so let me ask you about the attorney. And I once again was hearing Erin's voice in my head. She always says, no matter what, ask for an attorney, innocent or otherwise, always ask for an attorney first. And it seems like, you know, Melissa's parents clearly are very, very invested and were very involved. At this point, do you know if anyone intervened?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | A Day Care Worker Convicted of Murder
So today joining me is 48 Hours correspondent Erin Moriarty, who has been reporting on this case for more than a decade, and producer Stephanie Slipher, who also worked on this case with us. Welcome, ladies.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | A Day Care Worker Convicted of Murder
Right. Stephanie, you brought up the x-rays because that was the other, oh my gosh, kind of component to this hour. Big part of the case, these x-rays that were given to Melissa's original defense attorney, Paul DeLuca, before the start of the trial. In 2015, and we're talking about four years after the conviction, Melissa's father says that he
48 Hours
Post Mortem | A Day Care Worker Convicted of Murder
He got a mysterious anonymous phone call telling him that there were clearer x-rays and that these x-rays were actually at the coroner's office and that they were never turned over to the defense. Then in 2016, Dr. Robert Zimmerman, who is a pediatric neuroradiologist, testifies at an evidentiary hearing that those x-rays show no skull fracture at all. This is a bombshell revelation.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | A Day Care Worker Convicted of Murder
I am curious, has the person who is behind that anonymous phone call, has that person ever been identified?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | A Day Care Worker Convicted of Murder
So Aaron, you asked Paul Foreman whether or not he was the one. Let's play that sound.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | A Day Care Worker Convicted of Murder
I mean, knowing everything that we know, right, that there were actually clear x-rays. Can you feel confident in the verdict from this trial?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | A Day Care Worker Convicted of Murder
And Stephanie, I want to thank you because I know you're feeling a little under the weather and you still made it in for this podcast. So I really, really appreciate it.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | A Day Care Worker Convicted of Murder
And remember, if you haven't listened to this episode of 48 Hours yet, you can go find it. You can find the full audio just below this episode in your podcast feed. So go take a listen and then come on back so we can talk about this case. All right. So, Aaron, 48 Hours first began reporting on Melissa's case in 2014.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | A Day Care Worker Convicted of Murder
Welcome back. So police quickly focused on Melissa Kawizinski, but another woman named Brenda came up in police interviews with Melissa's coworkers. One of those daycare workers told police that months prior to Benjamin's death, she heard that he had thrown his head back in a crib while Brenda was putting him down. And then the next day, Brenda quit. The defense could not track her down.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | A Day Care Worker Convicted of Murder
But incredibly, 48 hours did. Your team did. Stephanie did. Stephanie, how did you find Brenda and how did you convince her to sit down?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | A Day Care Worker Convicted of Murder
And I guess we should remind everyone that Brenda, despite what the other co-workers had said, that Brenda was never charged with anything.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | A Day Care Worker Convicted of Murder
Right. And I think it was a good opportunity for her because because her name is being bounced around, at least by the co-workers, to say this is what I remember. And I don't remember anything happening.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | A Day Care Worker Convicted of Murder
That's about five years after Benjamin's death and almost three years after Melissa was actually convicted of his murder. When you first interviewed Melissa, was there anything that stood out to you about her? What were your impressions of her?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | A Day Care Worker Convicted of Murder
The daycare where Melissa and Brenda worked was actually shut down by state authorities. This is shortly after Benjamin's death. I'm wondering, were there any further investigations? Did anyone look into whether or not there had been other problems at this daycare?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Blackout Murder of Livye Lewis
So Edgar's mother, Cindy Hogan, was actually at the house. We see it in the hour. And eventually charged with hindering apprehension.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Blackout Murder of Livye Lewis
January 3rd of 2023, Edgar is formally sentenced to 99 years in prison with the possibility of parole after serving 30 years. What is the likelihood that he could actually get out in 30 years?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Blackout Murder of Livye Lewis
So joining me now to discuss this is correspondent Peter Vincent and producer Judy Ryback. Thanks for joining us, guys. Hi. Hey, I'm Murray.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Blackout Murder of Livye Lewis
We talked about Libby a little bit earlier. And the sense that I got from her is that she would have been going places. She would have eventually left that town. It felt like anyways.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Blackout Murder of Livye Lewis
Mm-hmm. Absolutely. It's clear that Darcy loved her daughter, obviously. Peter, you went with her to a memorial that she had put up for her daughter. What was that like?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Blackout Murder of Livye Lewis
OK. And as per usual, remember, everyone, if you haven't listened to this 48 hours episode yet, head on over to your podcast feed. You're going to find the episode just below this one right there. Go over there and listen and then come on back for this conversation. All right. This murder occurs in Hemp Hill, Texas.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Blackout Murder of Livye Lewis
Yeah. Well, it was a great hour, as usual. Thank you. Peter, Judy, thank you so much. Thank you.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Blackout Murder of Livye Lewis
And of course, I want to remind you guys, if you like the series Postmortem, please rate and review 48 Hours on Apple Podcasts and follow 48 Hours wherever you get your podcasts. And you can also listen ad-free on the Amazon Music Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or the 48 Hours Plus subscription on Apple Podcasts. Thanks for listening.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Blackout Murder of Livye Lewis
We've done some stories in some small communities and having worked in small towns, what you find is that everyone knows everyone. This is a really small community. About a thousand people live there. What was it like visiting such a small town?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Blackout Murder of Livye Lewis
Right. Yeah, a lot of them have records. So the thing about a small town, though, clearly they've investigated their fair share of high-speed chases. But probably not murders, right?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Blackout Murder of Livye Lewis
Yeah, when I watched that video with Darcy, I could feel my hands clenching, and I was like, just tell her what's going on. How does Darcy feel about how...
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Blackout Murder of Livye Lewis
I want to talk to you guys about the DNA tests because, you know, the case sort of feels straightforward. But one thing that was surprising to me and I'm sort of surprising to investigators is there's blood on Edgar's face and that blood does not actually match him or Libby. So then, you know, whose blood is it? Any theories?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Blackout Murder of Livye Lewis
I actually was surprised that Bobby was willing to talk to you guys because I felt like they're at his house partying. She's going to stay over there is what we're getting. And I just thought he would want to have nothing to do with this case because everyone involved, he's... well acquainted with, and it must have been tough.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Blackout Murder of Livye Lewis
Welcome back. When Livvy's family and friends find out that she has been killed, Did they think of anyone else who could possibly be responsible for this? They were focused.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Blackout Murder of Livye Lewis
So is this why, at that party, Montana doesn't call the police, Bobby doesn't call the police, when, you know, they can see that Edgar is drunk, that things are ratcheting up, no one even thinks, like, he shouldn't get behind the wheel.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Blackout Murder of Livye Lewis
So early on in this investigation, investigators believe that Montana helped Edgar maybe cover up the crime scene. They didn't find any evidence that she participated at all, though. But what made investigators initially suspect her?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Blackout Murder of Livye Lewis
Montana was thoroughly investigated, right?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Blackout Murder of Livye Lewis
So, Edgar is arrested in the hospital just hours after Livy's murder. I'm wondering, did you guys try to get an interview with him?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Blackout Murder of Livye Lewis
So in February of 2021, the COVID pandemic shuts down the courts. That's been happening with a lot of the cases that we've been covering lately. In this case, Edgar's released on a $50,000 bond. It feels light for a murder suspect, right?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Blackout Murder of Livye Lewis
Welcome back to Postmortem. I'm your host, Anne-Marie Green. And today we're discussing the case of Livy Lewis, who was murdered by her ex-boyfriend, Matthew Edgar, following an argument at a party. But then during his murder trial, he fled when his ankle monitor battery died and he evaded authorities for nearly a year.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Blackout Murder of Livye Lewis
Wait, he's out on bond accused of killing his ex-girlfriend and he assaults his ex-wife?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Blackout Murder of Livye Lewis
So then the big twist in this story comes when the battery on Edgar's ankle monitor, it dies, and he goes on the run in the middle of the trial. The jury was not told this, though, that he fled. I mean, you would think that would be a factor that the jury should be able to consider. I mean, if you're not guilty, why are you running? One could argue. Yeah.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Blackout Murder of Livye Lewis
They ultimately find him, but it takes like a year because he's out on the run. He's actually found guilty while he's on the run. And now investigators have to figure out how to find him, which this was so fascinating. He's ultimately found hiding in plain sight.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Boy Across the Street
Mm-hmm. I want to talk a little bit about filming the day of that most recent parole hearing. This is in 2025. There's this really sort of tender moment with you, Erin, that you're driving in the backseat. You're with Harriet, who's Katina's mom, and you sort of reach out to touch her hand. Can you tell me about what was happening in that moment?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Boy Across the Street
But it really lets you know that it never gets easier. You would think by 13, you would, I don't know, know exactly what to expect, know exactly what you want the board members to hear. But it's still like this emotional upheaval to get to go there again. Yes, this was, she said, as tough almost as the first one. Yeah. Wow. Wow.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Boy Across the Street
In fact, you sat with Harriet and the family in the conference room and watched the parole hearing. 48 hours couldn't bring cameras in there. So it was just kind of you and there with the family. But tell me what that was like.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Boy Across the Street
Yeah. You know, just as an aside, this is a family who opened their doors and their heart to a young man and like that level of betrayal to welcome him into your home. Because Katina's father sort of took him a little bit under his wing, right? Oh my gosh, yes.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Boy Across the Street
Right. And you had mentioned a little bit earlier that like that it kind of changed the trajectory of their lives in certain ways.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Boy Across the Street
Absolutely. You know, Erin, like every once in a while, people ask me, isn't it sort of depressing to work on these sort of stories? And I always say, no, because for every story, there's heroes, right? And here you have an entire family that are heroic in their efforts to make sure that no one else becomes a victim the way that their loved one became, you know?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Boy Across the Street
Yeah, we don't talk often about this sort of component of the criminal justice system, the parole system, so I'm... Looking forward to digging into it. I do want to remind everyone that if you haven't already listened to this episode of 48 Hours, you can find it in your podcast stream just above this one. Go ahead, go listen, and then come on back.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Boy Across the Street
I love that. I absolutely love that. Erin, another great hour. It was really an interesting way to sort of delve into the story. We don't talk enough about the parole system, what's great about it, but also what's really challenging about it, especially for the families of the victims. So thank you so much. Thank you, Anne-Marie. I'll be back, as you know. I know you will.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Boy Across the Street
And if you like this series, Postmortem, please rate and review 48 Hours on Apple Podcasts and follow 48 Hours wherever you get your podcasts. And you can also listen ad-free with a 48 Hours Plus subscription on Apple Podcasts. Thanks for listening.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Boy Across the Street
I've always been told I'm a really good listener, right? And I maximized that while I was lying.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Boy Across the Street
I've always been told I'm a really good listener, right? And I maximized that while I was lying.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Boy Across the Street
Katina Solano and Stephen Burns, they were high school sweethearts. They lived across the street from each other. But when Katina tried to break up with him, Burns threatened to kill her. She left and she went to college and she was absolutely shocked when he turned up at the same college as her. They had discussed this before and he was supposed to be going to another college.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Boy Across the Street
They go off to their separate dorms to settle in, but he asks to speak with her and she agrees to do so. She tells her roommate, I'll be back. She never comes back. So what I found just as a journalist, very, very interesting. Impressive is the sheer number of people you all were able to track down from decades ago.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Boy Across the Street
We're talking about Katina's roommate, the then young student who stumbled upon Katina fighting for her life in the middle of campus. The patrol officer who stayed in her room. hospital room because he did not want her to be alone. Talk to me about how you all managed to get in contact with all of these people and convince them to participate. It wasn't me.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Boy Across the Street
Absolutely. The other thing that kind of was really brought home to me by seeing all these people is the amount of time that has passed and like who Katina could have been, you know, because like here they are. They're all grown up. They've lived whole lives, whole careers. Like, wow, who would she have been if she had been allowed to sort of live these next four decades, you know?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Boy Across the Street
Indeed. So this is not the first time that 48 Hours has actually covered this case. And I love it when we can kind of go into the archives. The first report on the case was done in 1990 by correspondent Bernard Goldberg. Yes, it was.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Boy Across the Street
Yeah, I mean, he's sort of talking very comfortably.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Boy Across the Street
So then why did 48 Hours decide to update viewers on this case? Was it because there was another parole hearing coming up? I mean, I guess who would have thought that there would have been so many parole hearings between then and now? Right.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Boy Across the Street
I thought it was really good that you explored that idea. You know, asking, listen, like, what is justice? What is the system for? Are you sure that you're in the pursuit of justice? Or is this just like a personal thing? Because, you know, it's hard to get over someone taking someone you loved. I thought you, the way you explored it was just was delicate but direct.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Boy Across the Street
I didn't understand that until I worked on this story. We're going to dig in a little bit more to that, but I just want to ask you this. Something about the court case, which was really surprising to me. I know it was back in 1980, but Katina's two sisters, Regina and Nina, they testified in Burns's trial. But Nina was just 14 years old and she had to testify without her parents in the courtroom.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Boy Across the Street
Welcome back to Postmortem. I'm your host, Anne-Marie Green. And today we are speaking with 48 Hours correspondent Erin Moriarty about the case of Katina Rose Salerno. In 1979, Katina was shot on campus at the University of the Pacific in California. It was the first day of her freshman year, and the assailant was her high school boyfriend, Stephen Burns. Katina was just 18 years old at the time.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Boy Across the Street
I've always been told I'm a really good listener, right? And I maximized that while I was lying.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Boy Across the Street
Welcome back. In 1980, Stephen Burns was found guilty of second degree murder and he was sentenced to 17 years to life with the possibility of parole. The Salarnos have attended 13 parole hearings for Burns since that time. Erin, I don't think I knew exactly how the parole system works, but 13 sounds like a lot. Why was he up for parole so many times?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Boy Across the Street
So this is really interesting because you interviewed Kevin Anderson, right? who was once a pediatrician and formerly incarcerated with Burns. He now counsels, or he's a counselor, and he worked with Burns in mock hearing sessions to prep him for his last parole hearing. Very interesting. Kevin told you that he felt that Burns did deserve to be released.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Boy Across the Street
How did you connect to Kevin, and how does he feel now?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Boy Across the Street
Burns was convicted of second-degree murder in 1980, and he's been in prison for four decades. Katina's family wants to keep it that way. They have attended every single parole board hearing, 13 in total, to advocate against his release. So Aaron is joining us now. Aaron, thank you so much.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
Welcome back to another episode of Postmortem. I am your host, Anne-Marie Green, and we are discussing a case that I actually reported on this week with 48 Hours producer Josh Yeager. It's about the hit and run death of Davis McClendon in the small town of Greenwood, South Carolina, where everybody knows everybody. And it really isn't just a cliche. People are so interconnected in this town.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
And then shortly after one o'clock, he meets up with Davis. The prosecution argued that the crash site showed that Bud deliberately hit Davis, who we learned was standing outside of his BMW at the time. But then he flees the scene on top of that. Right. So if it was an accident, you know, why do you flee the scene? And then he never calls 911. But then I heard the defense's argument.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
Yeah, because he was the one who really kind of like processed that accident scene. And people in law enforcement, there's sort of a range of personalities, right? And this is the guy who's like focused on detail, very level. This is the one that you want, you know, taking out the measuring tape and seeing this is like a quarter of an inch and what it means. You got the sense that he was a very...
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
Yeah, absolutely. It was really good. And good on you to be nimble enough to be like, all right, we're going to change this plan and grab this guy now. All right. So so back to the court case. It's, you know, less than 30 minutes of deliberations for the jury. They find Bud Ackerman guilty of murder. He is later sentenced to 45 years in prison without a possibility of parole.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
As we said in the hour, defense attorney Jack Swirling believes that the jury did not take enough time to really dig into the evidence to really consider what they had heard. He thinks that the verdict came back too soon. Davis's friends said that it was clear that Ackerman was guilty. And that's why they believe the jury came back as soon as they did. So what's going on with this case now?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
You know, we know working on these stories, even after a conviction, there's obviously still a lot of pain. The pain does not go away for these families. Can we talk a little bit about how some of the people are doing? What about Meredith?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
Yeah. And we should remind people there's Davis's family, too. I mean, he was he wasn't divorced for very, very long. He also had children. And, you know, now Davis's ex-wife is left being a single parent as well. They were not interested in talking to 48 hours. But, you know, the loss of Davis has left a huge, huge hole in these families, in this community.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
Yeah, absolutely. Well, Josh, it was great working with you on this case, on this hour. I look forward to the next time we work together. I know you're already busy deep in another hour. You guys keep it moving, you 48 Hours producers, but thank you.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
Well, if you like this series, Postmortem, please rate and review 48 Hours on Apple Podcasts and follow 48 Hours wherever you get your podcasts. And you can also listen ad-free with a 48 Hours plus subscription on Apple Podcasts. Thanks again for listening.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
And I thought about the times that maybe I've driven in the dark and maybe didn't see a pedestrian who was about to cross the street to the last minute. And I saw maybe a window of opportunity. I was a little torn.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
Yeah, that's absolutely it in a nutshell. And so what the prosecution needs to do is try to find as much information as possible to determine what could be in Bud Ackerman's mind at this moment. Was he really trying to stop his forward momentum or not? Because we really don't know exactly where Davis was. necessarily in the road. And so the prosecution gathers a lot of digital evidence.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
But one of the key pieces of evidence was the data that they recovered from Bud's truck. We all know that we're being tracked all the time, but I don't know about you. I was even a little surprised by the millisecond by millisecond detail that this truck was capturing and keeping.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
I didn't know about that either. And I was also really surprised that that's the sort of data that is stored. The other thing that I thought was really interesting was this bit about the cell phones. Meredith handed over her phone so investigators could see the text conversations that had been happening and how many phone calls were being made between Bud Ackerman and herself.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
In May of 2023, William Budd Ackerman fatally struck Davis, who was dating Budd's soon-to-be ex-wife, Meredith. The defense claimed that this was an accidental collision, but the prosecution argued that the crash was in fact an intentional killing. So joining me now is Josh. We work together on the case. So it's good to have you here on Postmortem as well, Josh.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
When it comes to Bud's phone, one of the things we learned is that Once police have a warrant for your phone and your phone is in their custody, they may not be able to initially get past the security measures if you don't give them your passcode. But once there's a software update, That's when they have an opportunity to get into a phone.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
And so they will just hang on to the phone until the next software update. So prior to that, they really can't sort of break into your phone. But after that, possibly. Right. All right. So let's talk about Meredith and Bud's relationship. Meredith said that by the end of their marriage, she really felt that Bud was struggling financially.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
with his mental health, that he was becoming paranoid, jealous. And she says that she found hidden surveillance cameras in her home, and that was pretty much the breaking point. But from everything we heard from her, this was initially a happy marriage.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
And there was someone else who really saw Bud's deterioration up close. It was Megan McGovern. She was the babysitter. She started babysitting when she was a kid herself. She was only around 12 years old. And so as she grows from a tween to a teen to sort of a young adult, she has an up-close look at this relationship. And I want to play part of the interview that we did with Megan for you.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
So there you have sort of a little taste of it. And we asked her, you know, was he ever violent or inappropriate? And she said, no, absolutely not. But she could just see things getting darker and darker and darker with him.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
Now, first off, if you haven't listened to this episode yet, you can find it in your podcast feed just below this one. Go listen to the episode and then come back here to listen to Postmortem. So I got to tell you, when I first sort of read about the details of this case, I thought this really seems pretty cut and dry.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
Welcome back. Well, just hours after killing Davis McClendon, Bud Ackerman was arrested and charged with his murder. In September of 2024, Bud's case went to trial, which faced a couple of challenges from the very, very start.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
Yeah, totally. Close to the end of the hour, you see Davis's son speak, and he's very, very angry, not just at Bud Ackerman, but at the Ackerman family. For this town, this is a wealthy family, well-known, but also Davis. He's pretty well known in the town himself. So the memorial for Davis was massive. It was so large that they had to hold it outside. That's according to Davis's friends.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
There's no question that the reason Davis McClendon is dead is because he was hit. He was in a collision. At the trial, the prosecution made a really strong case that Bud was jealous. His estranged wife, Meredith, had started dating. Bud was tracking them that night, the night they were out on a date, making all these phone calls, looking for them both.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
So it sort of tells you about the impact of the loss, but also how everyone felt the loss.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
Everyone knowing everyone and everyone being sort of interconnected in some way, shape or form is challenging for us, too. I felt like everyone was very conscious that whatever they said was, you know, going to obviously going to get back to people who they may see in church or on the street or at the Walmart. And they were kind of conscious of that.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
I almost felt like in a way, both like sort of swirling the attorney for the defense for Ackerman and the prosecutors, they were almost, I'm not going to say falling over each other to compliment each other, but they were very complimentary towards each other.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
Yeah. Yeah, so true. We did get at least one lucky break, though, when we were out at the scene shooting. We had a plan to interview certain individuals in law enforcement, and then someone else showed up.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The “No Body” Case of Dee Warner
So first off, a reminder for everyone, as usual, if you haven't actually listened to this 48 Hours episode yet, you can find the full audio version just below this episode in your podcast fees. So go back, listen to it, and then come join us for this conversation. So let's get right into it. On the morning of April 25th, 2021, Dee's daughter Raquel comes over to her house.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The “No Body” Case of Dee Warner
Let me ask you a question just because, Sarah, you said that they believed her to be dead. They had her declared dead, which I would think would be really tough because you want to hang on to hope, but obviously they felt the declaration was important.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The “No Body” Case of Dee Warner
Did any of the family members talk about the decision to have her declared dead, why they thought they needed to do that before a body was even found?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The “No Body” Case of Dee Warner
They're going to have breakfast together, but the house is empty. Dee's family report her missing later on in the day when she does not return any of their phone calls. But her second husband, Dale, tells police that he's not that concerned. And he says, you know, she's done this before. She's left the house before. However, her family becomes increasingly skeptical.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The “No Body” Case of Dee Warner
Well, I look forward to the update because I know 48 hours will stay on this case. It was another fascinating hour. Sarah, Erin, thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you for having us. If you like this series, Postmortem, please rate and review 48 Hours on Apple Podcasts and follow 48 Hours wherever you get your podcasts.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The “No Body” Case of Dee Warner
And you can also listen ad free with the 48 Hours plus subscription on Apple Podcasts. Thanks for listening.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The “No Body” Case of Dee Warner
The only way to truly be safe is to be the only one left. You really are insane.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The “No Body” Case of Dee Warner
Now, 48 Hours doesn't do a lot of missing persons. So I wondered about just how you approach this story when you really didn't know what the ending was going to look like.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The “No Body” Case of Dee Warner
And so that brings me to the amount of access that you had to the family. It seems like they were really willing to talk.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The “No Body” Case of Dee Warner
Yeah, I mean, people should know that there are so many producers that work on an hour. And key is building these genuine relationships with the people involved. You got to be authentic. You got to be real.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The “No Body” Case of Dee Warner
OK, so that brings me to this. Really early on, Dee's family suspected that Dale had something to do with her disappearance and ultimately her death. We learn in The Hour that only six weeks after Dee went missing, Dee's brother Greg confronted Dale and he says, you're a liar. I'll get you. What made Greg and the others in Dee's family so convinced that she did not leave independently?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The “No Body” Case of Dee Warner
She never sent that text, the letter K. Well, one of the other things that Dale says is that she left her wedding ring behind. But her family doesn't buy that. Why were they so convinced? I know they said it was really expensive.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The “No Body” Case of Dee Warner
So Greg actually paid to put a billboard up and he said, you know, the slogan was meant to be a little sarcastic. Help Dale find D. He puts it up at a major intersection near his farm. Where did he even get the idea to do something like this?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The “No Body” Case of Dee Warner
Welcome back to Postmortem. I'm your host, Anne-Marie Green. And today we are digging into a case that began as a missing person investigation when Dee Warner vanished from her home in Lenawee County, Michigan, in 2021. But her family suspected foul play. And after years of searching... her body was finally found.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The “No Body” Case of Dee Warner
Welcome back, everyone. So two and a half years after Dee's disappearance, police arrest Dale and they charge him with Dee's murder. But investigators still have not found her body. How difficult are no body cases to prove in court?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The “No Body” Case of Dee Warner
So speaking of the preliminary hearing, that's where we get a lot of information. And they really kind of dig into the relationship between Dee and Dale. And it wasn't so great. Is there anything that was revealed in the preliminary hearing that did make it into the hour?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The “No Body” Case of Dee Warner
So for somebody who texted all the time, did she text about any of this stuff to her friends and family?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The “No Body” Case of Dee Warner
Joining me now to discuss this case and its twists and turns is 48 Hours correspondent Erin Moriarty and producer Sarah Pryor. Thank you so much. Hello. Good to see you. Thanks, Anne-Marie. We love to talk about the twists and turns. Indeed, and there are a lot for this one.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The “No Body” Case of Dee Warner
And I guess we should remind the audience that a preliminary hearing or a pretrial hearing is really just about putting all the evidence out there to determine whether or not it rises to the level of actually going to trial.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The “No Body” Case of Dee Warner
So at this point, though, no one really knew what happened to Dee. There was no body. But incredibly, in August of 2024, over three years after Dee went missing, investigators found her body in a large metal tank that is used to store fertilizer. Can you tell us more about how they found Dee?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Firefighter's Secret
Okay, let's talk a bit about the trial now. What was Plody's main defense at the trial?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Firefighter's Secret
But what's surprising about this is that he's an actual firefighter. And so one would think if anyone would be able to set a fire that would be difficult to investigate, it would be him.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Firefighter's Secret
In fact, I want to play a portion of our interview with defense attorney John Kupp that was not in the show where he explained just why he made this argument.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Firefighter's Secret
And here's another unaired clip from Gus Lamish reacting to the argument during his victim impact statement.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Firefighter's Secret
Right. You reveal, and we talked about this earlier, in the hour that Melissa's baby was going to be named Barrett. What's the story behind that name?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Firefighter's Secret
I mean, if there's anything that I get from this is that this really did not have to happen. If the theory is true that he just didn't want to be a dad, he didn't have to be. She was fine without him. And it sounds like she was a powerhouse. She would have been an amazing mother. But you did very well at bringing her to life. So another excellent hour. Thank you so much, guys. Thank you.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Firefighter's Secret
Yeah, she sounds like she was an incredible woman. Yeah.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Firefighter's Secret
If you like the series, please rate and review 48 Hours on Apple Podcasts and follow 48 Hours wherever you get your podcasts. You can also listen ad-free on Amazon Music, Wondry Plus, and the Wondry app, or with a 48 Hours Plus subscription on Apple Podcasts. Thank you so much for listening.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Firefighter's Secret
So we know from the hour that the relationship between Melissa and Plody, it wasn't great, but it had never been a real sort of solid relationship anyways. Do we know anything about Melissa's family and Plody, whether they had a relationship?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Firefighter's Secret
Yeah, if there's anything that you get from this hour about her is that if there's somebody who could handle being a single mother, she could. Like, she'd take on the challenge, and you'd certainly see that she has a village supporting her. What about Plody's parents? I mean, this would have been their grandchild.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Firefighter's Secret
Welcome back to Postmortem. I'm your host, Anne-Marie Green. And today we're discussing the case of Melissa Lamish. Now, the day before Thanksgiving in 2020, firefighters responded to smoke at an Illinois home. But once they were inside, they found Melissa. She was nine months pregnant, dead on her kitchen floor. She was scheduled to give birth actually two days later.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Firefighter's Secret
Really? I know it's hard to tell, but what was their demeanor like? I mean, this has got to be incredibly tough for them. Stoic.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Firefighter's Secret
So Melissa's family, they kind of know of Flody and they know that he's the father of the child, but they don't know much else. They know he's a firefighter. When Melissa's body is found in that house that has been set on fire, did they immediately think he might be responsible for this?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Firefighter's Secret
So this is something that you guys may not know, but do you know if they had an adversarial relationship?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Firefighter's Secret
So, you know, perhaps one of the saddest sort of aspects to this story is that Melissa's mother, Deanna, who is waiting for her grandchild to be born and is expecting the new child into her life in just a few days. She meets her grandson for the first time.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Firefighter's Secret
at the funeral she holds his hand because her daughter can't um you can't help but to sort of fight back tears and imagine the pain that she is feeling yeah which i am yeah i have a baby so every time i think about this like i still get emotional um yeah deanna
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Firefighter's Secret
She was going to be induced. So, of course, there's a lot to discuss when it comes to this case. We are joined today by CBS correspondent Nikki Batiste and 48 Hours producer Ruth Chenitz. Thanks for being here. It's good to see you. Hello, thanks. Okay, so just a reminder to everyone, I say this every week.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Firefighter's Secret
Welcome back to Postmortem. So investigators interviewed Plody twice, first on the evening of the murder and then nine months later. Clips from both of those interviews were actually shown during the hour, but both went on for much longer, obviously, than you can ever show in an episode. The second interview lasted a full seven hours. But what was his demeanor like during those interviews?
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Firefighter's Secret
If you haven't listened to the 48 Hours episode yet, you can find the full audio just below this episode in your podcast feed. So go take a listen and then come back for this conversation. Okay, let's get into it. So Matthew Plody, he suspected of killing Melissa and the baby that they were expecting and then setting the fire in her home to conceal the death.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Firefighter's Secret
Absolutely. But even sort of one of the clips that is in the episode where they say to him, Melissa is dead, and I don't know exactly the phrasing that they use, but he's like, oh...
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Firefighter's Secret
Interesting. So another kind of interesting component of this hour has to do with the fire chief, right? His boss. Fire Chief Rob Schultz, he agreed to wear a wire and confront Plody about the night of the murder. And initially, Fire Chief Rob Schultz says that he said no. And I kind of understood why, because I thought, you know, you're the leader of these group of men and women.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Firefighter's Secret
They have to trust you to go to you. And this is kind of a betrayal of that trust for a really good reason, a murder investigation. But still, I could understand why he would waffle on it a little bit.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Firefighter's Secret
What I really got from the fire chief was that he not only felt a little uncomfortable doing this, but also he was questioning himself a little bit. I know this guy. What did I miss? Which I think we see often in many of these 48 hours cases. Chief Schultz was pure good.
48 Hours
Growing Up with the Happy Face Killer | Post Mortem Special
Welcome to a special episode of Postmortem.
48 Hours
Growing Up with the Happy Face Killer | Post Mortem Special
That's interesting. In 2018, you actually went on the Dr. Oz show. And there's kind of like a fictionalized version of this in the series, the Dr. Gregg show. But I want to play a clip from that episode.
48 Hours
Growing Up with the Happy Face Killer | Post Mortem Special
So we know that you are not like him and you have the brain scan to prove it. I wonder, though, about the shame. Have you killed the shame?
48 Hours
Growing Up with the Happy Face Killer | Post Mortem Special
Right. When I was watching that scene, I became uncomfortable because I'm a 48 hours correspondent. And, you know, you're always asking yourself when you're doing these stories, you know, am I helping these people? You know, I don't want to be taking advantage of their grief. You're just always sort of checking yourself that you're doing right by them.
48 Hours
Growing Up with the Happy Face Killer | Post Mortem Special
And so for you, Jennifer, this is this is a question for you. I wonder if that is something throughout this whole process that you also sort of asked yourself when it comes to Melissa and her family. You know, is this OK? Is this going to make their lives even more challenging? Is that something that you sort of had in mind?
48 Hours
Growing Up with the Happy Face Killer | Post Mortem Special
I'm your host, Anne-Marie Green, and today I'm sitting down with Melissa G. Moore, the daughter of serial killer Keith Hunter Jesperson, and Jennifer Casicio, the executive producer of the new series Happy Face, starring Anna Lee Ashford as Melissa and Dennis Quaid as her father, which premieres with two episodes on Thursday, March 20th, exclusively on Paramount+.
48 Hours
Growing Up with the Happy Face Killer | Post Mortem Special
Absolutely. So in the podcast, there's kind of a supernatural component to this story, right? Your father, Melissa, feels like there are ghosts around him. And he really feels like some of them may be his victims who are waiting for him. You know, on the other side. Have you had any of your own encounters?
48 Hours
Growing Up with the Happy Face Killer | Post Mortem Special
Melissa, what is your relationship like with your father today?
48 Hours
Growing Up with the Happy Face Killer | Post Mortem Special
Wow. And what does that mean to you being his daughter now?
48 Hours
Growing Up with the Happy Face Killer | Post Mortem Special
Jennifer, what do you hope people get out of watching this series, Happy Face?
48 Hours
Growing Up with the Happy Face Killer | Post Mortem Special
I think that will definitely happen. So congratulations to both of yourself. And I look forward to your future work.
48 Hours
Growing Up with the Happy Face Killer | Post Mortem Special
Tune in to the new series, Happy Face, which premieres with two episodes on Thursday, March 20th, exclusively on Paramount+, which, like CBS and 48 Hours, is part of Paramount Global. New episodes are available to stream weekly on Thursdays. If you like this series, Postmortem, please rate and review 48 Hours on Apple Podcasts and follow 48 Hours wherever you get your podcasts.
48 Hours
Growing Up with the Happy Face Killer | Post Mortem Special
You can also listen ad-free with the 48 Hours Plus subscription on Apple Podcasts. Thanks again for listening.
48 Hours
Growing Up with the Happy Face Killer | Post Mortem Special
Jen, I want to ask you just how did you come to know Melissa and her story?
48 Hours
Growing Up with the Happy Face Killer | Post Mortem Special
So, Melissa, I don't want to give too much away in terms of how the TV series unfolds. But obviously you're here talking with us now about who your father is. But what it did occur to me, you know, you could have stopped just at the podcast episode. And been like, OK, I got it out of my system. So I'm curious why you didn't choose to do that and why you're still speaking about it.
48 Hours
Growing Up with the Happy Face Killer | Post Mortem Special
When I was thinking about you and your relationship with your dad, when he shows up, he's like he's Santa. He's bringing food. He's bringing toys. But he's also bringing you trinkets. It turns out that these trinkets are not just things for you, but they're things for him, too.
48 Hours
Growing Up with the Happy Face Killer | Post Mortem Special
So Happy Face is inspired by the true life story of Melissa G. Moore. At 15, Melissa discovered that her beloved father, Keith Jesperson, was the prolific serial killer known as Happy Face. As an adult, she changed her name and guarded that secret, all while her father continues to be serving a life sentence in prison.
48 Hours
Growing Up with the Happy Face Killer | Post Mortem Special
There's a symbolism here, right? And it's that, Melissa, you have all of these memories of your father, and then you get these additional memories as you start to learn about his movements, the places he went, the women that were killed. And so I wonder, like, you must want to keep the good memories, right? Is there a way to keep the good and ignore the bad?
48 Hours
Growing Up with the Happy Face Killer | Post Mortem Special
Right. I want to play a little bit from the series. There's a scene where the character, Melissa, and a TV producer interview Keith Jesperson in prison. I want to share that clip.
48 Hours
Growing Up with the Happy Face Killer | Post Mortem Special
So that scene, I think, encapsulates exactly what you were talking about. So I found myself as I was watching it, Melissa, thinking, does he want her to love him? Or does he want just to get attention?
48 Hours
Growing Up with the Happy Face Killer | Post Mortem Special
That's fascinating. Jennifer, you're sort of agreeing with that.
48 Hours
Growing Up with the Happy Face Killer | Post Mortem Special
Jesperson is responsible for killing at least eight women in the early 1990s and was dubbed the happy face killer because he signed his letters to the media and law enforcement with a smiley face. And Melissa, I listened to the podcast because this was a podcast before it became this TV series. And that's what the TV series is based on. I want to thank you for joining us and I want to dig into it.
48 Hours
Growing Up with the Happy Face Killer | Post Mortem Special
Welcome back. One of the things that you see in the series is the attraction and interest that many people have in serial killers. And in the first few episodes that I saw, you sort of see the gamut, right? The people who are just interested in true crime, like a lot of people who are going to be listening to this podcast. The people who think they can save the serial killer.
48 Hours
Growing Up with the Happy Face Killer | Post Mortem Special
The people who are drawn to the morbid. I wonder if this is something, Jennifer, that you were sensitive to, and even Melissa, in telling this story.
48 Hours
Growing Up with the Happy Face Killer | Post Mortem Special
So what was it like to see Annalie Ashford portraying you on camera? Like, I have to say, when I looked at her and looked at you, I thought, oh, my God. I mean, they really got an actress that looks very similar to you. You guys could almost be sisters.
48 Hours
Growing Up with the Happy Face Killer | Post Mortem Special
And then what about Dennis Quaid portraying your father?
48 Hours
Growing Up with the Happy Face Killer | Post Mortem Special
How does it work sort of behind the scenes? Like, did you all meet with Dennis Quaid?
48 Hours
Growing Up with the Happy Face Killer | Post Mortem Special
So thank you so much, guys. Thank you for having us.
48 Hours
Growing Up with the Happy Face Killer | Post Mortem Special
So, Melissa, your father was arrested in 1995 for the murder of his girlfriend, Julie Winningham. You were only 15 at the time. He goes to trial and then he confesses to a number of other murders. He's recanted when it comes to some of them. But what was it like at 15 to wrestle with this realization that your father is not the person you thought he was?
48 Hours
Growing Up with the Happy Face Killer | Post Mortem Special
Melissa, in 2018, you hosted a podcast also titled Happy Face. I listened to it. And one of the things that really stuck with me over the years was the episode where you get a brain scan. You are really curious about the nature of psychopathy. And you wonder, I mean, am I made of the same stuff? Do I have the same DNA? Is it nature? Is it nurture?
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
But just 15 hours after the shooting... What are you doing back here? They got a huge break.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
News of Kevin's murder spread among his loved ones and closest friends.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
Lieutenant Hubbard reached out to Captain Jamila Aye, and if sharing the news about Kevin wasn't tragic enough, someone posted the chilling video of his murder online, and his fellow soldiers now saw and heard Kevin's final moments alive.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
Detectives Zaweski and Cunningham were back at their desks in headquarters, struggling for answers and leads to pursue. Day two. You get a phone call.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
The call from a sergeant at nearby North Haven Police Department was urgent.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
It began with a 911 call from a local scrap metal yard around 9 p.m., less than a half hour after Kevin was killed.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
Police body cameras were rolling when Sergeant Jeffrey Mills and Officer Marcus Artaiz spotted that vehicle stuck on snow-covered railroad tracks. Not far from the rear exit of the Sims scrap metal yard, they approached the driver.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
His driver's license and criminal background were clean. During the encounter, Sergeant Mills noticed a yellow jacket on the passenger seat. He also saw a blue bag and a briefcase in the back seat, but not much else.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
Because Sergeant Mills hadn't heard about Kevin's murder, he wasn't particularly concerned.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
But hours later, there was another call to 911. February 7th, around 11 a.m.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
The Arby's was right next door to the Best Western where Penn was dropped off. And by then, Mills had heard about the murder in New Haven. What's going through your brain?
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
That's when Mills alerted New Haven Homicide about Pan. Do you immediately think there might be a connection with the homicide?
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
Zawieski immediately sent detectives to meet Mills at the Best Western.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
New Haven police sent investigators, including Detective Joe Galvin, to track down Pan. Galvin went to Malden, Massachusetts, where Pan lived with his parents and was a graduate student at MIT.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
With Kenshin Pan and his parents missing from their home, Detective David Zaweski turned to his computer, searching for Pan.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
She must have been wondering, why are you asking me so many questions about this guy? What did you say to her?
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
Are you starting to formulate a theory about the case that goes a little beyond possible road rage?
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
The next day, Zion Perry joined Kevin's mother, Linda Liu, and father, Ming-Shen Yang, and nearly 700 people on a virtual vigil for Kevin. Zion addressed the mourners.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
A medical officer also trained to operate tanks, Kevin was buried with full military honors just two days before his 27th birthday on Valentine's Day. Meanwhile, Detective Galvin, a member of the U.S. Marshals Fugitive Task Force in Connecticut, along with Supervisor Matthew Duffy and Deputy Marshal Kevin Perrault, were utilizing their vast resources to urgently gather intelligence on Pan.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
The Marshalls discovered Pan had three active phones, and they noticed that in the months before Kevin was killed, Pan was using one of those phones to contact car dealerships.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
Investigators were able to match the date of Pan's test drives with each of the .45 caliber shootings in New Haven, including Kevin's murder. It was all part of a plan, investigators say. They believe that Pan likely fired shots into those homes to ultimately mislead them, hoping they would think Kevin's murder was just another random shooting.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
They also discovered that not long after Kevin's murder, Pan called his parents and they made a cash withdrawal of about $1,000.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
The marshals zeroed in on Pan's parents and picked up a ping on their phone at this North Carolina gas station.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
Three days later, investigators caught up with Pan's parents driving near Atlanta, Georgia.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
Police told them they suspected their son had killed someone. Were they shocked?
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
Pan's parents agreed to be photographed. Pan's mother declined to answer any questions without an attorney, but she later volunteered that her son walked away from her and his father and likely killed himself. The Marshalls were skeptical.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
What do you think of Pan's plan to mislead investigators? See more of the evidence at 48hours.com.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
And they would need plenty of it. Weeks went by without an arrest. They wondered if they missed something and if their murder suspect had outmaneuvered them.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
Five weeks pass without a solid lead on the MIT student wanted for Kevin Zhang's murder.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
Then the manhunt for Pan suddenly heated up. Police said his mom told them she suspected her son killed himself, but they noticed his parents had a lot of banking activity.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
And then Pan's parents rented a car. They start traveling south again. But the vehicle's GPS system the marshals were tracking went dark. Did they turn it off?
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
By then, investigators said they knew that their son had disabled GPS systems in several cars he drove in the run-up to Kevin's murder.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
At one point, surveillance cameras at this Georgia mall recorded Pan's father purchasing a computer.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
And it ticked away for nearly two more months until May 4th, 2021, when Pan's parents drove off for a third time. But there was a difference.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
Pan's parents and their unwitting companions were eventually placed under surveillance at a North Carolina hotel, where marshals interviewed a clerk after the Pans checked out.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
Here is the picture of Pan's mother making the call that broke the case wide open.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
Were you able to find that number? Yes. The marshals tracked the phone to this boarding house near Alabama State University in Montgomery. So you guys are closing in.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
Penn was arrested for the murder of Kevin Jong and brought back to Connecticut. He maintained his innocence, but a judge ordered him held on a $20 million bond.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
His case was delayed by the pandemic, but investigators had amassed a trove of evidence. Remember that license plate imprint on Kevin's car? Police say it matched the plate on the bumper of the SUV Pan was driving when Kevin was rear-ended. And forensic tests revealed that Pan's DNA was on the gun and ammo found outside Arby's. And Kevin's blood was also on Pan's hat.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
And the gear shift of the SUV Pan was driving the night Kevin was murdered. Was there anything missing? The murder weapon. Turns out the gun recovered at the Arby's was not the gun that was used to kill Kevin. Supervisory Assistant State's Attorney Stacey Miranda.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
But there was so much other evidence that Pan's lawyer, William Gerace, recommended he cut a deal.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
On February 29, 2024, three years after Kevin's killing, Pan pled guilty to his murder in exchange for serving 35 years in prison without parole.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
At his sentencing in April, Pan sat silently as Kevin's loved ones and friends described their loss. By court order, the camera was fixed on him. Some of Kevin's mother's remarks were read by a family friend.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
Pan never explained why he killed Kevin, but the only time he looked up was when Zion Perry rose to speak.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
Finally, Judge Harmon passed sentence and Pan was led away in handcuffs.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
We reached out to Pan's parents for comment, but did not hear back. Now Kevin's friends are left to wonder what Kevin, a man of deep faith, might have thought about his killer. Do you think Kevin would have forgiven Pan?
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
Without a doubt. Yeah. The officers visited Kevin's grave after they spoke to 48 Hours. Lieutenant Hubbard recalled her first time there when she says she felt Kevin's presence.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
Qin Xin Pan is scheduled to be released in 2056 when he is 65 years old.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
Join me Tuesday for Postmortem from 48 Hours, where we'll dive even deeper into today's episode and answer your questions about the case.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
And so you're going down the list of names. Nothing, nothing, nothing. And then you're like, whoa.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
It was a cold night in February 2021 when lead detective David Zoeski and his colleague Stephen Cunningham arrived at the crime scene.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
26-year-old Yale graduate student Kevin Jong was lying in the street, shot eight times.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
Stippling is a burn pattern caused by gunpowder exploding from a weapon fired at close range.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
they quickly discovered the Prius belonged to Kevin. Crime scene detectives noticed a peculiar bit of damage that suggested it had been hit from behind.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
One witness told detectives she heard the sound of an accident and went to the window to look.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
Another witness heard the first round of gunshots and went to her window.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
She sees someone standing over another person, which means the victim is already down. And they're still shooting?
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
The detectives were able to confirm these accounts when they got a look at video from a neighbor's security system.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
Because most of the frame is a reflection of the interior of the house, we've zoomed in to focus on what's happening on the street. A warning this may be difficult to listen to.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
Moments later, the video shows the SUV driving off into the night. Can you make out any details when it comes to the SUV?
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
Investigators soon felt the dark SUV and the .45 caliber shells recovered at the scene pointed to a potential link to those earlier shootings around the area that police had been investigating. Four times over a two-month span, someone fired shots into family homes. The fourth incident occurred just one hour before Kevin Jong's murder.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
Nyree, a schoolteacher, headed upstairs to take a shower. Paul, an educator with degrees from Yale, Harvard, and Columbia University, was sitting downstairs.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
Paul shouted a warning to Nyree. Get down. Someone's shooting. And then I heard bang, pop again. And I turned and I literally saw the frame of the door just splintered. And then she yells back at you.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
It was over in a matter of moments and no one was injured. Do you feel lucky?
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. Detectives interviewed the Whites and the occupants of the other houses.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
And none of them, investigators say, had any connection to Kevin Jeong. But the shell casings from all the shootings would later tell a different story.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
The casings matched, but Kevin was the only person murdered, and detectives didn't know why.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
It was late when Detective Zaweski and Cunningham left the crime scene on February 6th. They went to Kevin Jiang's home, looking to find a family member to notify about what had happened. His mother, Linda Liu, came to the door.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
The detectives wanted to know everything about Kevin and why he may have been targeted that night. Linda began to tell them about her son.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
Kevin was deeply religious. He and his mother were part of the congregation at Trinity Baptist Church. Pastor Gregory Hendrickson knew them both and says that Linda, a divorced single parent, got Kevin through a tough childhood where he was often bullied.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
Kevin bought this house in 2019, and Hendrickson says he invited his mother to come live with him.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
Police also learned that Kevin had recently gotten engaged to his girlfriend of a year, Zion Perry. She posted the proposal on Facebook. This was just one week before he was murdered.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
Zion Perry grew up in Pennsylvania, where she was an honors high school student. A couple met in January of 2020 when Zion was still an undergraduate at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, MIT.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
Zaweski and Cunningham then interviewed an emotional Zion. She told them she and Kevin had spent the day together.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
Kevin didn't get far. His Prius was struck by the dark SUV just two blocks from Zion's house. close enough for Zion to hear the gunshots that followed.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
After speaking with Zion, detectives were no closer to figuring out why Kevin would be a target.
48 Hours
The Grad Student Murder
What do you think of Pan's plan to mislead investigators? See more of the evidence at 48hours.com.
48 Hours
The Grad Student Murder
Qin Xin Pan is scheduled to be released in 2056 when he is 65 years old.
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
Until that night, Davis McClendon sauntered up and sat down in her life. They tried to keep things low-key at first. Meredith says she never wanted to rub Bud's nose in it. So what did you all do? We would go out of town. But Meredith says they knew they couldn't sneak around forever, and it had started seeming like her new relationship with Davis was a forever kind of thing.
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
But after Bud found out, there were new complications. He accused you of cheating? Yeah. even though you were weeks away from your divorce. Right. Meredith says Bud actually called Davis and asked him to back off until the divorce was official. What was Davis' reaction to that request?
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
And on the night Davis died, she says Bud seemed out of control. Back at his parents' house, investigators now had a warrant and were finding more clues that Ackerman had been at the crash site.
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
At about 6.30 a.m. on May 7, 2023, Bud Ackerman was arrested. He would be charged with the murder of Davis McClendon.
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
So, by the end of the night, you already have someone in custody.
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
Because it turns out Bud Ackerman did have a story to tell. He says Davis was standing near the middle of a dark road, approximately shown in this CBS News animation. Bud says he didn't see Davis until it was too late, that hitting him had been an accident. And Bud's team says they can prove it.
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
Investigators are confident they could prove Bud Ackerman's truck had hit and killed Davis McClendon, but they knew proving Ackerman had done it on purpose might be harder.
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
And when investigators looked at that night, they learned Bud Ackerman had been tracking Davis and Meredith's whereabouts for hours.
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
Using security video, phone records, and even data from Bud's own truck, authorities built a timeline. They began with Meredith's phone, Lieutenant Matthew Womack of the Greenwood County Sheriff's Office.
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
A slew of calls and text messages Bud had made to Meredith leading up to the collision. At 8.54 p.m., Bud texts Meredith, why do you hate me? I just don't understand. She doesn't respond to him. She's out with Davis at a local restaurant.
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
and being interrupted by Bud's attempts to reach her. What was the FaceTime conversation like?
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
So at that point, he knows that you're out with Davis. Mm-hmm. While Meredith continued her date with Davis, security cameras catch Bud Ackerman at 1040 p.m., arriving at a popular Greenwood club called Key West.
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
The video shows Bud spent about an hour and a half at Key West, then called Meredith again. How did he sound on the phone? Intoxicated. What's an intoxicated Bud sound like? Vulgar. Soon after midnight, Ackerman had left Key West. About a half hour later, cameras show Bud's truck circling in front of Break on the Lake. But by then, Meredith and Davis were no longer at the restaurant.
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
And you look over. Mm-hmm. What do you think you were looking at? Davis.
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
Lieutenant Womack says before long, investigators would learn just how far Bud Ackerman had gone that night to find Meredith and Davis. Though Ackerman himself wasn't talking, critical information would emerge from another digital witness, his truck.
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
Womack says in some cars and trucks, the infotainment systems, as they're known, store detailed information about how the vehicles are being driven. We're in a similar model to Bud's Ford F-250 pickup.
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
Events including snap measurements of speed, acceleration, and brake pressure. Bud's onboard computer even pinged public Wi-Fi's it passed. Investigators learned that Bud had actually driven by Meredith's house and onto Davis-McClendon Street that night. But while he was driving around looking for them, ironically, they had moved to the Key West Club he had just left.
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
Did he think he could bring the temperature down?
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
Records show Davis called her minutes later. And what was that conversation? Where are you? And that's when he told me that he was going to meet Bud. Womack says other infotainment system data show that at a bit past 1 in the morning, Davis and Budd had their fatal encounter.
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
And according to the computer, seconds after the collision, Ackerman's truck had stopped.
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
Womack thinks Ackerman got out of his truck, which was probably leaking from the collision. Remember that puddle of oil in the road near the victim.
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
Then, say authorities, Ackerman turns his truck around near the lamppost, roughly as you see in this CBS News demonstration based on their investigation. He then drives away, leaking an oil trail all the way to his parents' driveway.
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
But Ackerman's attorney, Jack Swirling, paints a different picture.
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
Sheriff's office. Yes, sir. Nor, says Swirling, is there much to indicate his client was drunk that night. Can I get you to step with me over here for a moment, please? None of the cops who arrested him reported he seemed tipsy.
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
According to Swirling, Meredith and Davis had betrayed McClendon's promise to Bud to stand down until the Ackermans' marriage was officially over.
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
And Swirling says the night Davis died, he let Bud Ackerman's repeated calls and text messages to Meredith get under his skin.
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
He says Bud had suggested an innocent and safe place for it to happen.
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
Swirling says Ackerman's children were sleeping there that night. So attacking Davis would have been the last thing on his client's mind.
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
He says it was Davis who selected the deserted intersection as a new location. And remember how Davis was found without his shirt on that night? Well, Swirling says he believes Davis took it off to prepare for a confrontation.
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
Swirling insists Bud Ackerman meant no harm that night, and Bud is about to tell that story to a jury.
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
Prosecutors are determined to prove it was no accident that Budd Ackerman hit Davis McLendon the night he died. So in September of 2024, Assistant Attorneys General John Conrad and John Meadors... He intentionally drove his car into the body of Davis McLendon. ...start the case off with a bang. Bam!
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
They'll argue Ackerman couldn't stand the fact that his estranged wife was seeing someone and Bud was searching for Meredith and Davis all over town.
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
Medders and Conrad lead with their strongest evidence. There are actually timestamped videos from the neighbor's doorbell cameras at the moment of the crash that killed Davis. It shows what they say is Bud's Ford F-250 driving through the frame. Seconds later on the video, what sounds like a crash. And seconds after that, a series of muffled sounds.
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
Prosecutors argue it's Bud Ackerman's voice yelling at Davis McClendon after running him down.
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
But Bud Ackerman's defense attorney, Jack Swirling, argues the audio is too garbled to prove anything.
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
The prosecutor then calls Megan McGovern, the Ackerman's babysitter and friend, to describe the moment she'd seen Davis's body through traumatized teenage eyes.
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
But their star witness is the woman at the center of both men's affection, Meredith Haney, who testifies with the date night security videos as a guide.
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
Yes, sir. She tells the jury Bud Ackerman called her when she and Davis were at break on the lake.
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
I did worry, yes. And kept calling after they got to Key West Club.
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
And she says by the time Davis McClendon left her at the Key West Club after midnight... And is that Davis McClendon leaving the bar? Yes. ...she was worried Bud might be volatile.
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
So when Davis later called to tell her he was going to meet with Ackerman, she says she wanted to go check on the situation in person and makes clear to the jury that when she saw the scene, she had little doubt who'd killed her boyfriend.
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
Objection. The judge sustains the defense's objection, but Meredith continues.
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
Digital forensics expert Brian Hudak tells the jury about data in the infotainment system of Ackerman's pickup, including some that show Budd was driving in exactly the right place.
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
To be implicated in the deadly collision. He suggests they can even tell the moment of impact.
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
And Hudak says the evidence shows Ackerman was going 25 miles per hour.
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
Collision reconstruction expert Corporal Christopher Bratcher testifies the dents show Bud's speeding pickup sideswiped Davis' BMW sedan. As shown in that CBS News animation based on the prosecution's theory,
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
They say Bud was aiming at Davis, who was standing near the driver's door when he was hit, and that the truck kept going with Davis on the grill until he fell off where authorities found him. But Jack Swirling argues much of the same evidence shows hitting Davis was an accident.
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
He says Bud Ackerman had no idea Davis was standing outside his car and calls auto forensics expert Jonathan Nelson to testify that given Ackerman's speed in the dark over a slope in the road and into the parked BMW's headlight beams, he wouldn't have seen Davis McClendon standing in the road until at most two and a half seconds before the collision.
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
And Swirling says Davis wasn't standing right next to his car when he was hit, but further out towards the center of the road. And that Ackerman swerved to his left into the BMW to get around him, as shown in this CBS News animation based on the defense's theory.
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
Swirling knows there may be only one person who can.
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
Ackerman's attorney begins by trying to show the jury his client was Meredith's long-suffering but devoted husband.
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
He admits he was angry at Meredith, but says he only wanted to talk to her and agreed to meet Davis to talk to him, too.
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
Ackerman says he hadn't realized how fast he was going and that he was only trying to pull up next to Davis to talk and didn't see McClendon standing in the road until the last moment.
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
But on cross-examination, he admits something that undercuts his claims of innocence that night. He had never called 911. I panicked.
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
Instead, he left the scene and drove to his parents' house and told them what had happened. But they never called authorities either.
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
In closings, Prosecutor Meadors argues Ackerman is a murderer with a truck as his weapon.
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
And he says the Ford pickup's infotainment system proves it.
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
It's the highest possible bar, and the defense insists the state has not proven its case.
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
For the Ackerman jury, six days of testimony and evidence boil down to a deliberation less than a half hour long.
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
Bud Ackerman is guilty of the murder of Davis McClendon.
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
Not just fast, but too fast to be thought through, says Bud Ackerman's attorney, Jack Swirling.
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
Damning evidence of what Bud Ackerman did, say Davis-McClendon's friends, and equally damning evidence, they say, of what Bud Ackerman never did.
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
They still can't wrap their head around why nobody in the Ackerman family ever called 911.
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
It was May 7th, 2023, just after 1 a.m., when authorities responded to a reported road accident on a secluded, dead-end street in Greenwood, South Carolina.
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
At sentencing right after the verdict, Davis McClendon's son demands accountability from the Ackermans.
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
But Ackerman's father tries to explain his own lack of action by saying he was too disoriented to know what to do at that hour of the night when his son woke him with the news. The judge's sentence is devastating to the defendant.
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
It looks like the end of the road for Bud Ackerman.
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
But it may allow for a new beginning for Meredith Haney.
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
With their father unlikely to get out of prison for decades, she's determined to spare her children from the impact of that horrible night. As a single mom, she leans on friends and family. How are the kids doing? Well, my kids are doing Looking back, she believes Bud Ackerman really wanted to target her that night, and that she's only alive because he found Davis McClendon first.
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
If true, Meredith Haney owes her life, however challenging, to the new man she had once hoped to share it with. How would you like Davis to be remembered?
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
At the edge of the nearby woods, they would find 46-year-old Davis McLendon's body. But what they saw at first was on the road itself. A shirt, a shoe, and a mangled sedan.
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
Join me Tuesday for Postmortem from 48 Hours, where we'll dive even deeper into today's episode and answer your questions about the case.
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
It was a BMW 5 Series, similar to this one, were using to demonstrate the position of the vehicle that night. After first responders had locked everything down, Greenwood County Sheriff's Office investigator Patrick Durkin arrived to photograph the scene.
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
Whatever had transpired at this deserted crossroads, Durkin's job was to freeze it in time. First responders had thought Davis McLendon's injuries seemed consistent with having been hit by a vehicle, though no other vehicle relating to the collision was there. They'd found Davis's body about 50 feet away from the BMW, leading them to suspect he'd been outside his car when he was hit.
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
Durkin says he noticed some strange damage to the BMW.
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
It had made authorities wonder if it was a hit and run or something more sinister. Those airbags were out and a phone was on the front passenger seat. Durkin saw more debris in the road, but nothing particularly telling.
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
Investigator Ronnie Powell from the Greenwood County Sheriff's Office says authorities had learned more by speaking to two women at the scene, Meredith Haney and Megan McGovern, who'd called 911. Megan often babysat for Meredith's three children.
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
Meredith had told authorities that Davis left a club they'd been in that night, calling her minutes later from the road, saying he was parked at the intersection of Avid Road and Sawgrass Place. When he'd put her on hold and then failed to come back on the line, Meredith was worried and got a ride there from Megan.
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
It was Megan, the babysitter, who'd gotten out of her car and was the first to see Davis's body. That news must have been stunning.
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
Davis McClendon was the ultimate people person, without an enemy in the world. Say his friends, Chip Funderbunk.
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
Zach Calhoun. He loved big. And Johnny Coates. And what Zach said, he was everyone's best friend. He was. He loved everyone. But none of them could remember Davis ever mentioning the specifics of his love life.
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
Calhoun says Davis had gone through a divorce, but the end of his marriage hadn't done anything to weaken his devotion as a father and a friend, even to the residents of the retirement home where he worked. He was the most empathetic person I've ever met. More than four months before Davis died, on the night of December 23, 2022,
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
Meredith was at that club, celebrating her 39th birthday with her best friends. She says they were wearing their worst Christmas sweaters when the handsome stranger struck up a conversation.
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
And you just kept on talking? Mm-hmm. Until meeting Davis, she says she'd been keeping her head down. Just about six months earlier, she had left her husband of 10 years, a local auto body shop owner named Bud Ackerman. And she was struggling to balance parenting their three kids and her job as a grammar school teacher. She says she knew getting involved with someone new would not be easy.
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
Was there any hesitancy about moving forward with this? There, I mean, there was... She says, first, Davis wanted to make sure she had no intention of reconciling her marriage.
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
They would have less than six months together. Could you start to guess what may have happened, how it was hit? The night of Davis's death, at the site, investigator Patrick Durkin noticed something beyond the strangeness of the crashed car and Davis's distance from it. There was an oil slick in the road. It's still here.
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
It looked like evidence from the vehicle that hit Davis. You guys are looking around and you realize the oil continues?
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
Back where the tire track seemed to show a vehicle had turned around, investigators had found oil spatters on a streetlight post. It was about maybe this high. And from there, there was a trail of oil that had led down the road into the distance. It's breadcrumbs, basically.
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
Investigator Ronnie Powell says by the time authorities started following that oil trail from the crash site, they had a solid hunch where it might lead. Davis-McClendon's girlfriend, Meredith Haney, had told them she'd suspected where he had been going when he left her at the bar that night to meet her estranged husband, Bud Ackerman.
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
And it turns out the oily evidence led right to Ackerman's parents' house.
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
He'd been living there since separating from Meredith about a year earlier. Sheriff's office.
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
Did it seem like there was chemistry right off the bat? Immediately.
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
But Ackerman and his father were both standing near the garage.
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
Bud had spent the day with his three kids at a local festival. He and his wife Meredith had a custody arrangement, and it was his night with the kids. But in the driveway, authorities noticed his white Ford F-250 pickup.
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
With oil leaking from the undercarriage, they also noticed a crack in the grille and other evidence that suggested the vehicle had hit someone.
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
Investigators turned to Bud. Do you have your ID on you?
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
Okay. Just step over here for me. Authorities say Bud told them he would not answer questions without his lawyer present. But from speaking with Meredith, they learned she had a contentious relationship with her soon-to-be ex-husband and came to suspect a jealous Bud Ackerman had mowed Davis McClendon down.
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
Looking at the scene, they deduced Davis had been standing outside his BMW, as shown in this CBS News animation based on their investigation. They suspect Bud's pickup truck sideswiped the sedan and hit Davis, carrying him on the vehicle's grill and depositing his body across the road. Meredith says Bud had been upset since reaching out to her days earlier when he found out she was dating Davis.
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
What had begun years earlier as a promising marriage that would bear three kids had fallen apart.
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
Bud was from a prominent local family, and he was a business owner. But Meredith says his work had become stressful.
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
She says he started drinking a lot. And the more he drank, she says, the more unpredictable he became. There was screaming, cussing. You felt threatened? Absolutely. Meredith says he never laid a hand on her, but destroyed her sense of self. The house was never clean enough.
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
It was very degrading. Then, she says, she noticed her husband was starting to become paranoid. She remembers being in her closet one day and noticing a strange pillow. They had cut a hole in it. According to Meredith, there was a hidden camera inside. And then I started finding more of them. What other places did you find cameras?
48 Hours
The Hit-and-Run Homicide of Davis McClendon
She says that was the last straw. They separated in the spring of 2022. I could breathe. I could be me again. Meredith says the separation seemed to help Bud too, that he'd stopped drinking and kept going to church with her and the kids. But by then, she'd decided it was too late. When I was done, I was done. And starting again with someone new seemed like a distant dream, Meredith says.