Alison Raskin

And also I imagine what are they getting out of it? Right. Like what is reinforcing this behavior?

And also I imagine what are they getting out of it? Right. Like what is reinforcing this behavior?

The cognitive dissonance of life.

The cognitive dissonance of life.

Yeah, because because I it's one thing to to believe, like, I think physical, you know, punishment gets good results. But to know that to like also know enough to be like, no one will like that or that's actually not true. But that's what I want to do to get the quickest results. Yeah.

Yeah, because because I it's one thing to to believe, like, I think physical, you know, punishment gets good results. But to know that to like also know enough to be like, no one will like that or that's actually not true. But that's what I want to do to get the quickest results. Yeah.

It's horrifying. I mean, it is very interesting. Like all research shows that any form of physical punishment is not helpful. Right. Even spanking has been like proven that it is not good.

It's horrifying. I mean, it is very interesting. Like all research shows that any form of physical punishment is not helpful. Right. Even spanking has been like proven that it is not good.

He's a deeply troubled man.

He's a deeply troubled man.

And there's also different types of restraints and some are more harmful than others.

And there's also different types of restraints and some are more harmful than others.

Anytime there's an encouragement for a child not to have direct communication with their parents, something bad is happening.

Anytime there's an encouragement for a child not to have direct communication with their parents, something bad is happening.

And also, like, we're still getting stuff wrong now. Oh, yeah. Absolutely.

And also, like, we're still getting stuff wrong now. Oh, yeah. Absolutely.

Then it was, but it's still a flawed system. Yes. And there's also a lot of debate about the merits of diagnosing at all.

Then it was, but it's still a flawed system. Yes. And there's also a lot of debate about the merits of diagnosing at all.

Such an urge to over pathologize.

Such an urge to over pathologize.

And I also feel like there's sometimes what happens is like the expectations people have for how children should behave is not realistic. So that it's like, oh, your kid didn't sit through a four hour movie without like wanting to get up and fidgeting. Something's wrong with them. It's like, no, developmentally, they're not going to be able to do that. That's a normal thing.

And I also feel like there's sometimes what happens is like the expectations people have for how children should behave is not realistic. So that it's like, oh, your kid didn't sit through a four hour movie without like wanting to get up and fidgeting. Something's wrong with them. It's like, no, developmentally, they're not going to be able to do that. That's a normal thing.

And they're only interested in adults. They just want their kid to act like an adult. I look cute.

And they're only interested in adults. They just want their kid to act like an adult. I look cute.

I'm someone that has found comfort and comfort. And sort of clarity in being diagnosed and have had my diagnosis pretty much my whole life. But a lot of people don't feel that way. And so it's an interesting debate.

I'm someone that has found comfort and comfort. And sort of clarity in being diagnosed and have had my diagnosis pretty much my whole life. But a lot of people don't feel that way. And so it's an interesting debate.

that mean what does it mean bruno hands are like objectively hard it's really difficult to draw hands yeah um wow so much anger just like such a such a angry view of the world and like such a it's so funny these people that like their whole goal is to like

that mean what does it mean bruno hands are like objectively hard it's really difficult to draw hands yeah um wow so much anger just like such a such a angry view of the world and like such a it's so funny these people that like their whole goal is to like

get people to act correctly yeah are so emotionally unregulated themselves yes yes like he got so outraged that this little boy didn't draw hands you need to go do some deep breathing yeah bruno these are not appropriate reactions that you're having

get people to act correctly yeah are so emotionally unregulated themselves yes yes like he got so outraged that this little boy didn't draw hands you need to go do some deep breathing yeah bruno these are not appropriate reactions that you're having

He's like a villain out of a Bond movie.

He's like a villain out of a Bond movie.

It's also very funny to, like, imply that the children were allowed to give consent and had to give consent. Yeah. Given that at that time period, I think the idea that children could give consent or should was, like, not a normal concept.

It's also very funny to, like, imply that the children were allowed to give consent and had to give consent. Yeah. Given that at that time period, I think the idea that children could give consent or should was, like, not a normal concept.

But, like, I feel like very few families, like, viewed children at that time as autonomous individuals who were worthy of giving consent. You know, so, like... No way was that happening.

But, like, I feel like very few families, like, viewed children at that time as autonomous individuals who were worthy of giving consent. You know, so, like... No way was that happening.

But they also they also are revealing of how much he actually knows of what he's doing is wrong.

But they also they also are revealing of how much he actually knows of what he's doing is wrong.

Or maybe it's some guilt that he has. And so his lies are around the things he feels shame or regret around. And so he's lying to himself. Who knows?

Or maybe it's some guilt that he has. And so his lies are around the things he feels shame or regret around. And so he's lying to himself. Who knows?

Oh, yeah. Like maybe I, well, I'm not doing it, but I'm putting that out in the world or whatever. But I actually think this guy might think he is doing it. I mean, I think there might be just such a disconnect between his actions and who he thinks he is.

Oh, yeah. Like maybe I, well, I'm not doing it, but I'm putting that out in the world or whatever. But I actually think this guy might think he is doing it. I mean, I think there might be just such a disconnect between his actions and who he thinks he is.

Yeah. I mean, look, I think we're learning that going through the amount of trauma that Bruno went through. Yeah. When you don't treat it or get the support that you need. In any way deal with it. Yeah. And when you then kind of claim psychology as something that you have ownership over when you actually haven't done any work on yourself can be a really nasty outcome.

Yeah. I mean, look, I think we're learning that going through the amount of trauma that Bruno went through. Yeah. When you don't treat it or get the support that you need. In any way deal with it. Yeah. And when you then kind of claim psychology as something that you have ownership over when you actually haven't done any work on yourself can be a really nasty outcome.

Well, now they'll do oppositional defiant disorder.

Well, now they'll do oppositional defiant disorder.

Well, he hadn't been in the camp yet.

Well, he hadn't been in the camp yet.

Which is like – a pathway or whatever towards that eventual diagnosis. Yeah. But there are certain restraints around what age you can call people, what age you can give them certain things.

Which is like – a pathway or whatever towards that eventual diagnosis. Yeah. But there are certain restraints around what age you can call people, what age you can give them certain things.

Yeah, my dog likes to like walk on me in the morning. And when he puts his paw on my neck, I'm like, ow, that's such a sensitive. I luckily until I got this dog, I didn't understand how much neck neck pressure hurts.

Yeah, my dog likes to like walk on me in the morning. And when he puts his paw on my neck, I'm like, ow, that's such a sensitive. I luckily until I got this dog, I didn't understand how much neck neck pressure hurts.

Well, it's I mean, this is like a thing that happens in society. These like troubled teen industry like this is not like an isolated incident of this kind of group where these kids are declared as so problematic and then taken into this extreme environment.

Well, it's I mean, this is like a thing that happens in society. These like troubled teen industry like this is not like an isolated incident of this kind of group where these kids are declared as so problematic and then taken into this extreme environment.

And then you sort of have a cult like figure at the helm and and all of these employees sort of just like go along with this, even though it's like it is like this dynamic that sort of has that continues to sort of play out.

And then you sort of have a cult like figure at the helm and and all of these employees sort of just like go along with this, even though it's like it is like this dynamic that sort of has that continues to sort of play out.

And so there are definitely, like, I'm someone who finds, like, I don't think it's so wild to describe things as cults or as cult-like if they follow certain, you know, descriptors. And this definitely feels rather cult-y to me.

And so there are definitely, like, I'm someone who finds, like, I don't think it's so wild to describe things as cults or as cult-like if they follow certain, you know, descriptors. And this definitely feels rather cult-y to me.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the difference is that these kids are not are not members of the cult the way you would see in other situations. They're they're sort of the prisoners of the cult.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the difference is that these kids are not are not members of the cult the way you would see in other situations. They're they're sort of the prisoners of the cult.

The employees are the members.

The employees are the members.

He's creating the rules of the world.

He's creating the rules of the world.

This is like satire.

This is like satire.

Well, he is 100 percent an anti-Semite.

Well, he is 100 percent an anti-Semite.

I had this great professor in grad school who's, you know, because psychology is a tricky field, like we were alluding to, like there can really be an unequal level of power and these people that claim to like know everything. And he he was always like if.

I had this great professor in grad school who's, you know, because psychology is a tricky field, like we were alluding to, like there can really be an unequal level of power and these people that claim to like know everything. And he he was always like if.

If anyone tells you that they're certain about anything, like the way he goes on these TV shows and is like certain about these disturbed children, do not trust them.

If anyone tells you that they're certain about anything, like the way he goes on these TV shows and is like certain about these disturbed children, do not trust them.

Wow, that's so original. Yeah, that's like, you know, out of nowhere.

Wow, that's so original. Yeah, that's like, you know, out of nowhere.

I also feel like historically people often blame schizophrenia on mothers, too. Yes. And it makes sense that those are the two main things that he's treating.

I also feel like historically people often blame schizophrenia on mothers, too. Yes. And it makes sense that those are the two main things that he's treating.

No, no. Aye, aye, aye, aye, aye. I mean, there continues to be so much debate about ABA therapy for children and autism. I'm sure you probably, in the work you did in special ed, experienced a lot of that and

No, no. Aye, aye, aye, aye, aye. I mean, there continues to be so much debate about ABA therapy for children and autism. I'm sure you probably, in the work you did in special ed, experienced a lot of that and

And it's the difference of approaches between we have to change this person to interact with the world as we see fit versus maybe we allow this person to be who they are and create a world where that's okay.

And it's the difference of approaches between we have to change this person to interact with the world as we see fit versus maybe we allow this person to be who they are and create a world where that's okay.

I mean, sort of going back to what we were saying, like the... The victims are not just the kids there. It's probably also the staff that are sort of in like under this man's control and manipulation. And it's I mean, it's a mini little hell that he has built. Yeah.

I mean, sort of going back to what we were saying, like the... The victims are not just the kids there. It's probably also the staff that are sort of in like under this man's control and manipulation. And it's I mean, it's a mini little hell that he has built. Yeah.

It's interesting that everyone has the exact same problem. That everyone has the same problems he has with his parents. That every family is the exact same dynamic.

It's interesting that everyone has the exact same problem. That everyone has the same problems he has with his parents. That every family is the exact same dynamic.

And it's weird that it's also the dynamic he came from. Yeah.

And it's weird that it's also the dynamic he came from. Yeah.

Wild stuff.

Wild stuff.

If something doesn't fit his narrative, then he will create the details to make it fit. Yeah.

If something doesn't fit his narrative, then he will create the details to make it fit. Yeah.

Which is a really great strategy for you, but it's... For him, it works. Yeah. It also allows him to never have to confront any of his own demons.

Which is a really great strategy for you, but it's... For him, it works. Yeah. It also allows him to never have to confront any of his own demons.

I feel like this is like, should be like a learning, like a learning moment about these people that take over our media today. Yeah. Like there are so many people like with these kinds of characteristics and these, these like really abhorrent personalities who people fall for. Yep.

I feel like this is like, should be like a learning, like a learning moment about these people that take over our media today. Yeah. Like there are so many people like with these kinds of characteristics and these, these like really abhorrent personalities who people fall for. Yep.

And to become like really influential and claim to have a lot of knowledge around wellness and psychology and the right way to be a person. And it's just a it's just a reminder to be to be more skeptical of what people present to you as the truth.

And to become like really influential and claim to have a lot of knowledge around wellness and psychology and the right way to be a person. And it's just a it's just a reminder to be to be more skeptical of what people present to you as the truth.

Sounds right to me.

Sounds right to me.

And it's also a great manipulation tactic, right? Because as soon as you're like, hey, maybe I shouldn't let this kid be in the school for their entire childhood. It's like, oh, well, actually, though, I'm the person causing them harm. If I were to reunite with my kid, I'd actually be doing them more harm.

And it's also a great manipulation tactic, right? Because as soon as you're like, hey, maybe I shouldn't let this kid be in the school for their entire childhood. It's like, oh, well, actually, though, I'm the person causing them harm. If I were to reunite with my kid, I'd actually be doing them more harm.

Right. It becomes dangerous for you to be involved in their life.

Right. It becomes dangerous for you to be involved in their life.

And I also I'm not surprised like you that he died by suicide because I don't think he was mentally well his whole life.

And I also I'm not surprised like you that he died by suicide because I don't think he was mentally well his whole life.

I don't think that he was ever at peace with himself or had like the ability to emotionally regulate or, you know, live a values driven life. Like, I think he wasn't in constant turmoil since his childhood. And so, yeah. Unfortunately, the outcome is not so shocking to me.

I don't think that he was ever at peace with himself or had like the ability to emotionally regulate or, you know, live a values driven life. Like, I think he wasn't in constant turmoil since his childhood. And so, yeah. Unfortunately, the outcome is not so shocking to me.

Oh, I guess I'll do my annoying mental health advocacy thing of saying I veer away from using the term committed suicide because it implies that it's a crime. That's a good point. Yeah. So I prefer like the language of died by suicide.

Oh, I guess I'll do my annoying mental health advocacy thing of saying I veer away from using the term committed suicide because it implies that it's a crime. That's a good point. Yeah. So I prefer like the language of died by suicide.

But, you know, who would I be for not someone to say that?

But, you know, who would I be for not someone to say that?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. And that's like it's interesting, like as a writer and as a also then it's someone in the mental health field. I am always thinking about like the the impact of the word choice that we use and like how how we are actually like subtly sending these like messages to ourselves and to other people. but then sometimes I'll be like, I don't get why that's a problem.

Yeah. And that's like it's interesting, like as a writer and as a also then it's someone in the mental health field. I am always thinking about like the the impact of the word choice that we use and like how how we are actually like subtly sending these like messages to ourselves and to other people. but then sometimes I'll be like, I don't get why that's a problem.

But then you listen to someone where it's, you know, their point of view and it's like, okay, well, even if I still don't get it, I'll, I'll make the change. But that the, the freight, when someone explained it to me in that way of that, it's like a crime. Then it finally clicked for me about why I don't want to use that term anymore.

But then you listen to someone where it's, you know, their point of view and it's like, okay, well, even if I still don't get it, I'll, I'll make the change. But that the, the freight, when someone explained it to me in that way of that, it's like a crime. Then it finally clicked for me about why I don't want to use that term anymore.

It just feels like a very...

It just feels like a very...

Pertinent topic to be talking about like I think that there's a sense that like he died in 1990 We have like a different understanding of autism now, but I I feel like we're on a cusp of like of really Not having made the progress that we think we have made in psychology and in like this culture and so it's like a reminder to be like very vigilant about like falling for these these people who have such extreme takes and

Pertinent topic to be talking about like I think that there's a sense that like he died in 1990 We have like a different understanding of autism now, but I I feel like we're on a cusp of like of really Not having made the progress that we think we have made in psychology and in like this culture and so it's like a reminder to be like very vigilant about like falling for these these people who have such extreme takes and

And claim to have the only way to handle things and are very victim blaming and, you know, separate separate people as a means of control.

And claim to have the only way to handle things and are very victim blaming and, you know, separate separate people as a means of control.

We have to keep going. So if you're in the mood for something light, I have a rom-com novel called Save the Date coming out April 8th that you can order wherever books are sold. It's a kind of auto fiction based off of my own broken engagement and what could have happened if I had tried to find a new groom in time for my original wedding.

We have to keep going. So if you're in the mood for something light, I have a rom-com novel called Save the Date coming out April 8th that you can order wherever books are sold. It's a kind of auto fiction based off of my own broken engagement and what could have happened if I had tried to find a new groom in time for my original wedding.

I didn't do that in real life, but it's based off a joke my dad made and I turned it into a book. And then I also have my sub stack called Emotional Support Lady, which is all about mental health. And you can also hire me as a relationship coach for both individuals or couples.

I didn't do that in real life, but it's based off a joke my dad made and I turned it into a book. And then I also have my sub stack called Emotional Support Lady, which is all about mental health. And you can also hire me as a relationship coach for both individuals or couples.

And how long it took for society to catch up to the lies.

And how long it took for society to catch up to the lies.

It just feeds his. Yeah. Yeah. The persecution and everything that's happened to him until then.

It just feeds his. Yeah. Yeah. The persecution and everything that's happened to him until then.

Yeah. Even though, even though the people he was talking about were saying this is wrong while it was happening.

Yeah. Even though, even though the people he was talking about were saying this is wrong while it was happening.

And that wasn't enough.

And that wasn't enough.

I'm good. What I didn't reveal in episode one, which I feel like will be more relevant for this part of his life story, is that I actually have had OCD since I was four years old. So I was someone who was treated for pretty...

I'm good. What I didn't reveal in episode one, which I feel like will be more relevant for this part of his life story, is that I actually have had OCD since I was four years old. So I was someone who was treated for pretty...

Ah, yes.

Ah, yes.

It would be fun to go through history and find all the different euphemisms for rich white kids.

It would be fun to go through history and find all the different euphemisms for rich white kids.

You go right from a concentration camp to like a whites only instituting a whites only policy. I mean, it feels so like directly a I need to align myself with the people in power. Yes. Like I can no longer be viewed as other. Yeah. And so it's like this. Right. Because, I mean, some people at that time probably didn't definitely didn't view Jews as white.

You go right from a concentration camp to like a whites only instituting a whites only policy. I mean, it feels so like directly a I need to align myself with the people in power. Yes. Like I can no longer be viewed as other. Yeah. And so it's like this. Right. Because, I mean, some people at that time probably didn't definitely didn't view Jews as white.

Like they would be like, you're not allowed to be at school, especially not at this time.

Like they would be like, you're not allowed to be at school, especially not at this time.

And it's his way of of like making sure that he's in with the with the people in power.

And it's his way of of like making sure that he's in with the with the people in power.

severe mental illness as a young child and was put on Prozac when I was four and was actually incredibly thankful for my parents being proactive in that way and getting me the help that I needed. So I'm like not someone that is at all against taking children's mental health seriously. And it's like kind of a lot of the activism I do.

severe mental illness as a young child and was put on Prozac when I was four and was actually incredibly thankful for my parents being proactive in that way and getting me the help that I needed. So I'm like not someone that is at all against taking children's mental health seriously. And it's like kind of a lot of the activism I do.

And that is – Me, a Jewish man, would love to do that. Yeah, I know exactly how to celebrate Christmas. Yeah.

And that is – Me, a Jewish man, would love to do that. Yeah, I know exactly how to celebrate Christmas. Yeah.

If that person doesn't look exactly like me, I have to commit a crime. I can't handle it.

If that person doesn't look exactly like me, I have to commit a crime. I can't handle it.

That's in the 40s?

That's in the 40s?

But then if you do, they come out great.

But then if you do, they come out great.

But if they see a person with different color of skin, they will start screaming.

But if they see a person with different color of skin, they will start screaming.

They can't see anyone else or they will lose it.

They can't see anyone else or they will lose it.

I mean, he's really telling on himself, right, that he wrote that paper that people's reaction to being in a concentration camp is to become a Nazi. That was kind of your reaction, huh, Bruno? He was just like, no, I've just become a Nazi.

I mean, he's really telling on himself, right, that he wrote that paper that people's reaction to being in a concentration camp is to become a Nazi. That was kind of your reaction, huh, Bruno? He was just like, no, I've just become a Nazi.

But I think we're about to explore a scenario where that goes wrong.

But I think we're about to explore a scenario where that goes wrong.

Well, in his opinion, that's handling them, right?

Well, in his opinion, that's handling them, right?

They're not like developmentally delayed in a physical way.

They're not like developmentally delayed in a physical way.

Yes, exactly.

Yes, exactly.

The whole time he was in that camp, he was like, these are good ideas.

The whole time he was in that camp, he was like, these are good ideas.

That's what he's taking a lot of notes on.

That's what he's taking a lot of notes on.

And also I imagine what are they getting out of it? Right. Like what is reinforcing this behavior?

The cognitive dissonance of life.

Yeah, because because I it's one thing to to believe, like, I think physical, you know, punishment gets good results. But to know that to like also know enough to be like, no one will like that or that's actually not true. But that's what I want to do to get the quickest results. Yeah.

It's horrifying. I mean, it is very interesting. Like all research shows that any form of physical punishment is not helpful. Right. Even spanking has been like proven that it is not good.

He's a deeply troubled man.

And there's also different types of restraints and some are more harmful than others.

Anytime there's an encouragement for a child not to have direct communication with their parents, something bad is happening.

And also, like, we're still getting stuff wrong now. Oh, yeah. Absolutely.

Then it was, but it's still a flawed system. Yes. And there's also a lot of debate about the merits of diagnosing at all.

Such an urge to over pathologize.

And I also feel like there's sometimes what happens is like the expectations people have for how children should behave is not realistic. So that it's like, oh, your kid didn't sit through a four hour movie without like wanting to get up and fidgeting. Something's wrong with them. It's like, no, developmentally, they're not going to be able to do that. That's a normal thing.

And they're only interested in adults. They just want their kid to act like an adult. I look cute.

I'm someone that has found comfort and comfort. And sort of clarity in being diagnosed and have had my diagnosis pretty much my whole life. But a lot of people don't feel that way. And so it's an interesting debate.

that mean what does it mean bruno hands are like objectively hard it's really difficult to draw hands yeah um wow so much anger just like such a such a angry view of the world and like such a it's so funny these people that like their whole goal is to like

get people to act correctly yeah are so emotionally unregulated themselves yes yes like he got so outraged that this little boy didn't draw hands you need to go do some deep breathing yeah bruno these are not appropriate reactions that you're having

He's like a villain out of a Bond movie.

It's also very funny to, like, imply that the children were allowed to give consent and had to give consent. Yeah. Given that at that time period, I think the idea that children could give consent or should was, like, not a normal concept.

But, like, I feel like very few families, like, viewed children at that time as autonomous individuals who were worthy of giving consent. You know, so, like... No way was that happening.

But they also they also are revealing of how much he actually knows of what he's doing is wrong.

Or maybe it's some guilt that he has. And so his lies are around the things he feels shame or regret around. And so he's lying to himself. Who knows?

Oh, yeah. Like maybe I, well, I'm not doing it, but I'm putting that out in the world or whatever. But I actually think this guy might think he is doing it. I mean, I think there might be just such a disconnect between his actions and who he thinks he is.

Yeah. I mean, look, I think we're learning that going through the amount of trauma that Bruno went through. Yeah. When you don't treat it or get the support that you need. In any way deal with it. Yeah. And when you then kind of claim psychology as something that you have ownership over when you actually haven't done any work on yourself can be a really nasty outcome.

Well, now they'll do oppositional defiant disorder.

Well, he hadn't been in the camp yet.

Which is like – a pathway or whatever towards that eventual diagnosis. Yeah. But there are certain restraints around what age you can call people, what age you can give them certain things.

Yeah, my dog likes to like walk on me in the morning. And when he puts his paw on my neck, I'm like, ow, that's such a sensitive. I luckily until I got this dog, I didn't understand how much neck neck pressure hurts.

Well, it's I mean, this is like a thing that happens in society. These like troubled teen industry like this is not like an isolated incident of this kind of group where these kids are declared as so problematic and then taken into this extreme environment.

And then you sort of have a cult like figure at the helm and and all of these employees sort of just like go along with this, even though it's like it is like this dynamic that sort of has that continues to sort of play out.

And so there are definitely, like, I'm someone who finds, like, I don't think it's so wild to describe things as cults or as cult-like if they follow certain, you know, descriptors. And this definitely feels rather cult-y to me.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the difference is that these kids are not are not members of the cult the way you would see in other situations. They're they're sort of the prisoners of the cult.

The employees are the members.

He's creating the rules of the world.

This is like satire.

Well, he is 100 percent an anti-Semite.

I had this great professor in grad school who's, you know, because psychology is a tricky field, like we were alluding to, like there can really be an unequal level of power and these people that claim to like know everything. And he he was always like if.

If anyone tells you that they're certain about anything, like the way he goes on these TV shows and is like certain about these disturbed children, do not trust them.

Wow, that's so original. Yeah, that's like, you know, out of nowhere.

I also feel like historically people often blame schizophrenia on mothers, too. Yes. And it makes sense that those are the two main things that he's treating.

No, no. Aye, aye, aye, aye, aye. I mean, there continues to be so much debate about ABA therapy for children and autism. I'm sure you probably, in the work you did in special ed, experienced a lot of that and

And it's the difference of approaches between we have to change this person to interact with the world as we see fit versus maybe we allow this person to be who they are and create a world where that's okay.

I mean, sort of going back to what we were saying, like the... The victims are not just the kids there. It's probably also the staff that are sort of in like under this man's control and manipulation. And it's I mean, it's a mini little hell that he has built. Yeah.

It's interesting that everyone has the exact same problem. That everyone has the same problems he has with his parents. That every family is the exact same dynamic.

And it's weird that it's also the dynamic he came from. Yeah.

Wild stuff.

If something doesn't fit his narrative, then he will create the details to make it fit. Yeah.

Which is a really great strategy for you, but it's... For him, it works. Yeah. It also allows him to never have to confront any of his own demons.

I feel like this is like, should be like a learning, like a learning moment about these people that take over our media today. Yeah. Like there are so many people like with these kinds of characteristics and these, these like really abhorrent personalities who people fall for. Yep.

And to become like really influential and claim to have a lot of knowledge around wellness and psychology and the right way to be a person. And it's just a it's just a reminder to be to be more skeptical of what people present to you as the truth.

Sounds right to me.

And it's also a great manipulation tactic, right? Because as soon as you're like, hey, maybe I shouldn't let this kid be in the school for their entire childhood. It's like, oh, well, actually, though, I'm the person causing them harm. If I were to reunite with my kid, I'd actually be doing them more harm.

Right. It becomes dangerous for you to be involved in their life.

And I also I'm not surprised like you that he died by suicide because I don't think he was mentally well his whole life.

I don't think that he was ever at peace with himself or had like the ability to emotionally regulate or, you know, live a values driven life. Like, I think he wasn't in constant turmoil since his childhood. And so, yeah. Unfortunately, the outcome is not so shocking to me.

Oh, I guess I'll do my annoying mental health advocacy thing of saying I veer away from using the term committed suicide because it implies that it's a crime. That's a good point. Yeah. So I prefer like the language of died by suicide.

But, you know, who would I be for not someone to say that?

Yeah.

Yeah. And that's like it's interesting, like as a writer and as a also then it's someone in the mental health field. I am always thinking about like the the impact of the word choice that we use and like how how we are actually like subtly sending these like messages to ourselves and to other people. but then sometimes I'll be like, I don't get why that's a problem.

But then you listen to someone where it's, you know, their point of view and it's like, okay, well, even if I still don't get it, I'll, I'll make the change. But that the, the freight, when someone explained it to me in that way of that, it's like a crime. Then it finally clicked for me about why I don't want to use that term anymore.

It just feels like a very...

Pertinent topic to be talking about like I think that there's a sense that like he died in 1990 We have like a different understanding of autism now, but I I feel like we're on a cusp of like of really Not having made the progress that we think we have made in psychology and in like this culture and so it's like a reminder to be like very vigilant about like falling for these these people who have such extreme takes and

And claim to have the only way to handle things and are very victim blaming and, you know, separate separate people as a means of control.

We have to keep going. So if you're in the mood for something light, I have a rom-com novel called Save the Date coming out April 8th that you can order wherever books are sold. It's a kind of auto fiction based off of my own broken engagement and what could have happened if I had tried to find a new groom in time for my original wedding.

I didn't do that in real life, but it's based off a joke my dad made and I turned it into a book. And then I also have my sub stack called Emotional Support Lady, which is all about mental health. And you can also hire me as a relationship coach for both individuals or couples.

And how long it took for society to catch up to the lies.

It just feeds his. Yeah. Yeah. The persecution and everything that's happened to him until then.

Yeah. Even though, even though the people he was talking about were saying this is wrong while it was happening.

And that wasn't enough.

I'm good. What I didn't reveal in episode one, which I feel like will be more relevant for this part of his life story, is that I actually have had OCD since I was four years old. So I was someone who was treated for pretty...

Ah, yes.

It would be fun to go through history and find all the different euphemisms for rich white kids.

You go right from a concentration camp to like a whites only instituting a whites only policy. I mean, it feels so like directly a I need to align myself with the people in power. Yes. Like I can no longer be viewed as other. Yeah. And so it's like this. Right. Because, I mean, some people at that time probably didn't definitely didn't view Jews as white.

Like they would be like, you're not allowed to be at school, especially not at this time.

And it's his way of of like making sure that he's in with the with the people in power.

severe mental illness as a young child and was put on Prozac when I was four and was actually incredibly thankful for my parents being proactive in that way and getting me the help that I needed. So I'm like not someone that is at all against taking children's mental health seriously. And it's like kind of a lot of the activism I do.

And that is – Me, a Jewish man, would love to do that. Yeah, I know exactly how to celebrate Christmas. Yeah.

If that person doesn't look exactly like me, I have to commit a crime. I can't handle it.

That's in the 40s?

But then if you do, they come out great.

But if they see a person with different color of skin, they will start screaming.

They can't see anyone else or they will lose it.

I mean, he's really telling on himself, right, that he wrote that paper that people's reaction to being in a concentration camp is to become a Nazi. That was kind of your reaction, huh, Bruno? He was just like, no, I've just become a Nazi.

But I think we're about to explore a scenario where that goes wrong.

Well, in his opinion, that's handling them, right?

They're not like developmentally delayed in a physical way.

Yes, exactly.

The whole time he was in that camp, he was like, these are good ideas.

That's what he's taking a lot of notes on.