Alison Raskin
Appearances
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Bruno Bettelheim and The Quest To Make a "Good" Concentration Camp
And also I imagine what are they getting out of it? Right. Like what is reinforcing this behavior?
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Bruno Bettelheim and The Quest To Make a "Good" Concentration Camp
The cognitive dissonance of life.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Bruno Bettelheim and The Quest To Make a "Good" Concentration Camp
Yeah, because because I it's one thing to to believe, like, I think physical, you know, punishment gets good results. But to know that to like also know enough to be like, no one will like that or that's actually not true. But that's what I want to do to get the quickest results. Yeah.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Bruno Bettelheim and The Quest To Make a "Good" Concentration Camp
It's horrifying. I mean, it is very interesting. Like all research shows that any form of physical punishment is not helpful. Right. Even spanking has been like proven that it is not good.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Bruno Bettelheim and The Quest To Make a "Good" Concentration Camp
He's a deeply troubled man.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Bruno Bettelheim and The Quest To Make a "Good" Concentration Camp
And there's also different types of restraints and some are more harmful than others.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Bruno Bettelheim and The Quest To Make a "Good" Concentration Camp
Anytime there's an encouragement for a child not to have direct communication with their parents, something bad is happening.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Bruno Bettelheim and The Quest To Make a "Good" Concentration Camp
And also, like, we're still getting stuff wrong now. Oh, yeah. Absolutely.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Bruno Bettelheim and The Quest To Make a "Good" Concentration Camp
Then it was, but it's still a flawed system. Yes. And there's also a lot of debate about the merits of diagnosing at all.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Bruno Bettelheim and The Quest To Make a "Good" Concentration Camp
Such an urge to over pathologize.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Bruno Bettelheim and The Quest To Make a "Good" Concentration Camp
And I also feel like there's sometimes what happens is like the expectations people have for how children should behave is not realistic. So that it's like, oh, your kid didn't sit through a four hour movie without like wanting to get up and fidgeting. Something's wrong with them. It's like, no, developmentally, they're not going to be able to do that. That's a normal thing.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Bruno Bettelheim and The Quest To Make a "Good" Concentration Camp
And they're only interested in adults. They just want their kid to act like an adult. I look cute.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Bruno Bettelheim and The Quest To Make a "Good" Concentration Camp
I'm someone that has found comfort and comfort. And sort of clarity in being diagnosed and have had my diagnosis pretty much my whole life. But a lot of people don't feel that way. And so it's an interesting debate.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Bruno Bettelheim and The Quest To Make a "Good" Concentration Camp
that mean what does it mean bruno hands are like objectively hard it's really difficult to draw hands yeah um wow so much anger just like such a such a angry view of the world and like such a it's so funny these people that like their whole goal is to like
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Bruno Bettelheim and The Quest To Make a "Good" Concentration Camp
get people to act correctly yeah are so emotionally unregulated themselves yes yes like he got so outraged that this little boy didn't draw hands you need to go do some deep breathing yeah bruno these are not appropriate reactions that you're having
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Bruno Bettelheim and The Quest To Make a "Good" Concentration Camp
He's like a villain out of a Bond movie.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Bruno Bettelheim and The Quest To Make a "Good" Concentration Camp
It's also very funny to, like, imply that the children were allowed to give consent and had to give consent. Yeah. Given that at that time period, I think the idea that children could give consent or should was, like, not a normal concept.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Bruno Bettelheim and The Quest To Make a "Good" Concentration Camp
But, like, I feel like very few families, like, viewed children at that time as autonomous individuals who were worthy of giving consent. You know, so, like... No way was that happening.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Bruno Bettelheim and The Quest To Make a "Good" Concentration Camp
But they also they also are revealing of how much he actually knows of what he's doing is wrong.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Bruno Bettelheim and The Quest To Make a "Good" Concentration Camp
Or maybe it's some guilt that he has. And so his lies are around the things he feels shame or regret around. And so he's lying to himself. Who knows?
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Bruno Bettelheim and The Quest To Make a "Good" Concentration Camp
Oh, yeah. Like maybe I, well, I'm not doing it, but I'm putting that out in the world or whatever. But I actually think this guy might think he is doing it. I mean, I think there might be just such a disconnect between his actions and who he thinks he is.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Bruno Bettelheim and The Quest To Make a "Good" Concentration Camp
Yeah. I mean, look, I think we're learning that going through the amount of trauma that Bruno went through. Yeah. When you don't treat it or get the support that you need. In any way deal with it. Yeah. And when you then kind of claim psychology as something that you have ownership over when you actually haven't done any work on yourself can be a really nasty outcome.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Bruno Bettelheim and The Quest To Make a "Good" Concentration Camp
Well, now they'll do oppositional defiant disorder.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Bruno Bettelheim and The Quest To Make a "Good" Concentration Camp
Well, he hadn't been in the camp yet.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Bruno Bettelheim and The Quest To Make a "Good" Concentration Camp
Which is like – a pathway or whatever towards that eventual diagnosis. Yeah. But there are certain restraints around what age you can call people, what age you can give them certain things.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Bruno Bettelheim and The Quest To Make a "Good" Concentration Camp
Yeah, my dog likes to like walk on me in the morning. And when he puts his paw on my neck, I'm like, ow, that's such a sensitive. I luckily until I got this dog, I didn't understand how much neck neck pressure hurts.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Bruno Bettelheim and The Quest To Make a "Good" Concentration Camp
Well, it's I mean, this is like a thing that happens in society. These like troubled teen industry like this is not like an isolated incident of this kind of group where these kids are declared as so problematic and then taken into this extreme environment.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Bruno Bettelheim and The Quest To Make a "Good" Concentration Camp
And then you sort of have a cult like figure at the helm and and all of these employees sort of just like go along with this, even though it's like it is like this dynamic that sort of has that continues to sort of play out.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Bruno Bettelheim and The Quest To Make a "Good" Concentration Camp
And so there are definitely, like, I'm someone who finds, like, I don't think it's so wild to describe things as cults or as cult-like if they follow certain, you know, descriptors. And this definitely feels rather cult-y to me.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Bruno Bettelheim and The Quest To Make a "Good" Concentration Camp
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the difference is that these kids are not are not members of the cult the way you would see in other situations. They're they're sort of the prisoners of the cult.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Bruno Bettelheim and The Quest To Make a "Good" Concentration Camp
The employees are the members.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Bruno Bettelheim and The Quest To Make a "Good" Concentration Camp
He's creating the rules of the world.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Bruno Bettelheim and The Quest To Make a "Good" Concentration Camp
This is like satire.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Bruno Bettelheim and The Quest To Make a "Good" Concentration Camp
Well, he is 100 percent an anti-Semite.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Bruno Bettelheim and The Quest To Make a "Good" Concentration Camp
I had this great professor in grad school who's, you know, because psychology is a tricky field, like we were alluding to, like there can really be an unequal level of power and these people that claim to like know everything. And he he was always like if.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Bruno Bettelheim and The Quest To Make a "Good" Concentration Camp
If anyone tells you that they're certain about anything, like the way he goes on these TV shows and is like certain about these disturbed children, do not trust them.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Bruno Bettelheim and The Quest To Make a "Good" Concentration Camp
Wow, that's so original. Yeah, that's like, you know, out of nowhere.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Bruno Bettelheim and The Quest To Make a "Good" Concentration Camp
I also feel like historically people often blame schizophrenia on mothers, too. Yes. And it makes sense that those are the two main things that he's treating.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Bruno Bettelheim and The Quest To Make a "Good" Concentration Camp
No, no. Aye, aye, aye, aye, aye. I mean, there continues to be so much debate about ABA therapy for children and autism. I'm sure you probably, in the work you did in special ed, experienced a lot of that and
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Bruno Bettelheim and The Quest To Make a "Good" Concentration Camp
And it's the difference of approaches between we have to change this person to interact with the world as we see fit versus maybe we allow this person to be who they are and create a world where that's okay.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Bruno Bettelheim and The Quest To Make a "Good" Concentration Camp
I mean, sort of going back to what we were saying, like the... The victims are not just the kids there. It's probably also the staff that are sort of in like under this man's control and manipulation. And it's I mean, it's a mini little hell that he has built. Yeah.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Bruno Bettelheim and The Quest To Make a "Good" Concentration Camp
It's interesting that everyone has the exact same problem. That everyone has the same problems he has with his parents. That every family is the exact same dynamic.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Bruno Bettelheim and The Quest To Make a "Good" Concentration Camp
And it's weird that it's also the dynamic he came from. Yeah.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Bruno Bettelheim and The Quest To Make a "Good" Concentration Camp
Wild stuff.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Bruno Bettelheim and The Quest To Make a "Good" Concentration Camp
If something doesn't fit his narrative, then he will create the details to make it fit. Yeah.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Bruno Bettelheim and The Quest To Make a "Good" Concentration Camp
Which is a really great strategy for you, but it's... For him, it works. Yeah. It also allows him to never have to confront any of his own demons.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Bruno Bettelheim and The Quest To Make a "Good" Concentration Camp
I feel like this is like, should be like a learning, like a learning moment about these people that take over our media today. Yeah. Like there are so many people like with these kinds of characteristics and these, these like really abhorrent personalities who people fall for. Yep.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Bruno Bettelheim and The Quest To Make a "Good" Concentration Camp
And to become like really influential and claim to have a lot of knowledge around wellness and psychology and the right way to be a person. And it's just a it's just a reminder to be to be more skeptical of what people present to you as the truth.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Bruno Bettelheim and The Quest To Make a "Good" Concentration Camp
Sounds right to me.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Bruno Bettelheim and The Quest To Make a "Good" Concentration Camp
And it's also a great manipulation tactic, right? Because as soon as you're like, hey, maybe I shouldn't let this kid be in the school for their entire childhood. It's like, oh, well, actually, though, I'm the person causing them harm. If I were to reunite with my kid, I'd actually be doing them more harm.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Bruno Bettelheim and The Quest To Make a "Good" Concentration Camp
Right. It becomes dangerous for you to be involved in their life.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Bruno Bettelheim and The Quest To Make a "Good" Concentration Camp
And I also I'm not surprised like you that he died by suicide because I don't think he was mentally well his whole life.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Bruno Bettelheim and The Quest To Make a "Good" Concentration Camp
I don't think that he was ever at peace with himself or had like the ability to emotionally regulate or, you know, live a values driven life. Like, I think he wasn't in constant turmoil since his childhood. And so, yeah. Unfortunately, the outcome is not so shocking to me.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Bruno Bettelheim and The Quest To Make a "Good" Concentration Camp
Oh, I guess I'll do my annoying mental health advocacy thing of saying I veer away from using the term committed suicide because it implies that it's a crime. That's a good point. Yeah. So I prefer like the language of died by suicide.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Bruno Bettelheim and The Quest To Make a "Good" Concentration Camp
But, you know, who would I be for not someone to say that?
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Bruno Bettelheim and The Quest To Make a "Good" Concentration Camp
Yeah.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Bruno Bettelheim and The Quest To Make a "Good" Concentration Camp
Yeah. And that's like it's interesting, like as a writer and as a also then it's someone in the mental health field. I am always thinking about like the the impact of the word choice that we use and like how how we are actually like subtly sending these like messages to ourselves and to other people. but then sometimes I'll be like, I don't get why that's a problem.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Bruno Bettelheim and The Quest To Make a "Good" Concentration Camp
But then you listen to someone where it's, you know, their point of view and it's like, okay, well, even if I still don't get it, I'll, I'll make the change. But that the, the freight, when someone explained it to me in that way of that, it's like a crime. Then it finally clicked for me about why I don't want to use that term anymore.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Bruno Bettelheim and The Quest To Make a "Good" Concentration Camp
It just feels like a very...
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Bruno Bettelheim and The Quest To Make a "Good" Concentration Camp
Pertinent topic to be talking about like I think that there's a sense that like he died in 1990 We have like a different understanding of autism now, but I I feel like we're on a cusp of like of really Not having made the progress that we think we have made in psychology and in like this culture and so it's like a reminder to be like very vigilant about like falling for these these people who have such extreme takes and
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Bruno Bettelheim and The Quest To Make a "Good" Concentration Camp
And claim to have the only way to handle things and are very victim blaming and, you know, separate separate people as a means of control.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Bruno Bettelheim and The Quest To Make a "Good" Concentration Camp
We have to keep going. So if you're in the mood for something light, I have a rom-com novel called Save the Date coming out April 8th that you can order wherever books are sold. It's a kind of auto fiction based off of my own broken engagement and what could have happened if I had tried to find a new groom in time for my original wedding.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Bruno Bettelheim and The Quest To Make a "Good" Concentration Camp
I didn't do that in real life, but it's based off a joke my dad made and I turned it into a book. And then I also have my sub stack called Emotional Support Lady, which is all about mental health. And you can also hire me as a relationship coach for both individuals or couples.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Bruno Bettelheim and The Quest To Make a "Good" Concentration Camp
And how long it took for society to catch up to the lies.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Bruno Bettelheim and The Quest To Make a "Good" Concentration Camp
It just feeds his. Yeah. Yeah. The persecution and everything that's happened to him until then.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Bruno Bettelheim and The Quest To Make a "Good" Concentration Camp
Yeah. Even though, even though the people he was talking about were saying this is wrong while it was happening.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Bruno Bettelheim and The Quest To Make a "Good" Concentration Camp
And that wasn't enough.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Bruno Bettelheim and The Quest To Make a "Good" Concentration Camp
I'm good. What I didn't reveal in episode one, which I feel like will be more relevant for this part of his life story, is that I actually have had OCD since I was four years old. So I was someone who was treated for pretty...
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Bruno Bettelheim and The Quest To Make a "Good" Concentration Camp
Ah, yes.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Bruno Bettelheim and The Quest To Make a "Good" Concentration Camp
It would be fun to go through history and find all the different euphemisms for rich white kids.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Bruno Bettelheim and The Quest To Make a "Good" Concentration Camp
You go right from a concentration camp to like a whites only instituting a whites only policy. I mean, it feels so like directly a I need to align myself with the people in power. Yes. Like I can no longer be viewed as other. Yeah. And so it's like this. Right. Because, I mean, some people at that time probably didn't definitely didn't view Jews as white.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Bruno Bettelheim and The Quest To Make a "Good" Concentration Camp
Like they would be like, you're not allowed to be at school, especially not at this time.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Bruno Bettelheim and The Quest To Make a "Good" Concentration Camp
And it's his way of of like making sure that he's in with the with the people in power.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Bruno Bettelheim and The Quest To Make a "Good" Concentration Camp
severe mental illness as a young child and was put on Prozac when I was four and was actually incredibly thankful for my parents being proactive in that way and getting me the help that I needed. So I'm like not someone that is at all against taking children's mental health seriously. And it's like kind of a lot of the activism I do.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Bruno Bettelheim and The Quest To Make a "Good" Concentration Camp
And that is – Me, a Jewish man, would love to do that. Yeah, I know exactly how to celebrate Christmas. Yeah.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Bruno Bettelheim and The Quest To Make a "Good" Concentration Camp
If that person doesn't look exactly like me, I have to commit a crime. I can't handle it.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Bruno Bettelheim and The Quest To Make a "Good" Concentration Camp
That's in the 40s?
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Bruno Bettelheim and The Quest To Make a "Good" Concentration Camp
But then if you do, they come out great.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Bruno Bettelheim and The Quest To Make a "Good" Concentration Camp
But if they see a person with different color of skin, they will start screaming.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Bruno Bettelheim and The Quest To Make a "Good" Concentration Camp
They can't see anyone else or they will lose it.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Bruno Bettelheim and The Quest To Make a "Good" Concentration Camp
I mean, he's really telling on himself, right, that he wrote that paper that people's reaction to being in a concentration camp is to become a Nazi. That was kind of your reaction, huh, Bruno? He was just like, no, I've just become a Nazi.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Bruno Bettelheim and The Quest To Make a "Good" Concentration Camp
But I think we're about to explore a scenario where that goes wrong.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Bruno Bettelheim and The Quest To Make a "Good" Concentration Camp
Well, in his opinion, that's handling them, right?
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Bruno Bettelheim and The Quest To Make a "Good" Concentration Camp
They're not like developmentally delayed in a physical way.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Bruno Bettelheim and The Quest To Make a "Good" Concentration Camp
Yes, exactly.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Bruno Bettelheim and The Quest To Make a "Good" Concentration Camp
The whole time he was in that camp, he was like, these are good ideas.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Bruno Bettelheim and The Quest To Make a "Good" Concentration Camp
That's what he's taking a lot of notes on.