Alayna
Appearances
Morbid
Episode 639: The Unsolved Murder of Melissa Witt
You're listening to a Morbid Network podcast.
Morbid
Episode 639: The Unsolved Murder of Melissa Witt
Behind the closed doors of government offices and military compounds, there are hidden stories and buried secrets from the darkest corners of history. From covert experiments pushing the boundaries of science, to operations so secretive they were barely whispered about.
Morbid
Episode 639: The Unsolved Murder of Melissa Witt
Each week on Redacted Declassified Mysteries, we pull back the curtain on these hidden histories, 100% true and verifiable stories that expose the shadowy underbelly of power. Consider Operation Paperclip, where former Nazi scientists were brought to America after World War II, not as prisoners, but as assets to advance U.S. intelligence during the Cold War.
Morbid
Episode 639: The Unsolved Murder of Melissa Witt
These aren't just old conspiracy theories. They're thoroughly investigated accounts that reveal the uncomfortable truths still shaping our world today. The stories are real. The secrets are shocking. Follow Redacted Declassified Mysteries on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Redacted early and ad-free right now on Wondery+.
Morbid
Episode 628: The Murder of Nancy Evans Titterton
Um, that's suspicious. Uh-huh. That's weird.
Morbid
Episode 628: The Murder of Nancy Evans Titterton
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Episode 628: The Murder of Nancy Evans Titterton
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Morbid
Episode 628: The Murder of Nancy Evans Titterton
It has been such an amazing thing to hear from some of the best about what their process is and to get inspired by honestly straight up icons. It really gets the creative juices flowing. I highly, highly recommend it. Masterclass always has great offers during the holidays, sometimes up to as much as 50% off. Head over to masterclass.com slash morbid for the current offer.
Morbid
Episode 628: The Murder of Nancy Evans Titterton
That's up to 50% off at masterclass.com slash morbid. Masterclass.com slash morbid.
Morbid
Episode 628: The Murder of Nancy Evans Titterton
Are you fucking kidding me? Like... They made a graphic novel out of the crime scene?
Morbid
Episode 628: The Murder of Nancy Evans Titterton
The amount of people that that went through to approve that is...
Morbid
Episode 628: The Murder of Nancy Evans Titterton
I was just going to say, I love the heretofore of it all. Heretofore.
Morbid
Episode 628: The Murder of Nancy Evans Titterton
Yeah, especially with how everybody else is treating it. Like, let's not.
Morbid
Episode 628: The Murder of Nancy Evans Titterton
Like, fuck you! We just turned off the mic. Just an hour of silence. Thanksgiving was great. Yeah. I liked it. You're a great cook. Thanks. You bet. I hope you guys ate all kinds of delicious things.
Morbid
Episode 628: The Murder of Nancy Evans Titterton
I love the dull, normal IQ. They're like dull and normal. They're like so boring. Way to have a normal IQ. Boring. It's so fucking dull.
Morbid
Episode 628: The Murder of Nancy Evans Titterton
No, there's really nothing that sets him apart.
Morbid
Episode 628: The Murder of Nancy Evans Titterton
What? When you said extreme? Extreme. You meant extreme. Yeah. That's like agoraphobia, isn't it? Something akin to that?
Morbid
Episode 628: The Murder of Nancy Evans Titterton
Is there something, you know, adjacent to that, I would say?
Morbid
Episode 628: The Murder of Nancy Evans Titterton
I was just going to say, okay, so we're trying to make a connection here that if you feed a dog, you could have possibly murdered a human being.
Morbid
Episode 628: The Murder of Nancy Evans Titterton
I was just going to say, that just seems like, but that's such a nice thing to do.
Morbid
Episode 628: The Murder of Nancy Evans Titterton
Give a dog your sandwich meat. It is. How could you be that nice? But it doesn't mean that you didn't murder somebody. It's true. I feel bad. That's very, because you can tell it like...
Morbid
Episode 628: The Murder of Nancy Evans Titterton
And that's the thing. Like, I can't imagine what it feels like to have interacted and found yourself, like, enjoying the company of a person who murders someone. Like, that must be hard to reconcile. Absolutely. It has nothing to do with you.
Morbid
Episode 628: The Murder of Nancy Evans Titterton
In fact, it makes you... In case you're out there and that happened to you, like, you probably don't think it has anything to do with you. No, you're a better person than most of us. You should be able to trust people who are showing you that they're bettering themselves.
Morbid
Episode 628: The Murder of Nancy Evans Titterton
This is like, you have to go talk to this person, you find out from this person that this person wasn't working that day, so this person's story doesn't line up. Right. And the fact that it lined up that way, that it was Good Friday, and so it happened to be the day that a strict Catholic took off. Yeah.
Morbid
Episode 628: The Murder of Nancy Evans Titterton
No, that's what makes me feel so good. Yeah, he loved you. Because he'll come up and snuggle me on my lap.
Morbid
Episode 628: The Murder of Nancy Evans Titterton
It's really scary. But when you look at this guy, he looks like such a little piece of shit. He sure does. He looks dull. He's got it right on his face. He does look dull. He's got a dull, stupid, perpetual smirk.
Morbid
Episode 628: The Murder of Nancy Evans Titterton
Always. Me and Frankie for life. It's getting to the end of the day.
Morbid
Episode 628: The Murder of Nancy Evans Titterton
It's not a smile. It's a smirk. It's a little shit-eating smirk. That's what it is.
Morbid
Episode 628: The Murder of Nancy Evans Titterton
Oh, excuse me. Like, go fuck yourself. Yeah.
Morbid
Episode 628: The Murder of Nancy Evans Titterton
Babe, here's the thing. If that is the case, like if he has been implicated in this, something's awry. Something is awry for sure. Don't be so sure that you're going to get married in September because it's like I don't know if he's a great guy.
Morbid
Episode 628: The Murder of Nancy Evans Titterton
And that's the other thing. It's like, we can look at it from this side and be like, no, like he did it. Come on. But these people were spending every day with him. Exactly. These people were actually getting to know him and had, again, there's so many people in my life that if something like this happened, I'd be like, what?
Morbid
Episode 628: The Murder of Nancy Evans Titterton
You know what I mean? Like, I can't think of one person that I'd be like, oh, yeah, probably.
Morbid
Episode 628: The Murder of Nancy Evans Titterton
You probably shouldn't have someone in your life if you think that.
Morbid
Episode 628: The Murder of Nancy Evans Titterton
I believe I do. By the way, I just have a cold. I don't have COVID or anything.
Morbid
Episode 628: The Murder of Nancy Evans Titterton
Yeah, I just, like, I don't have a... Yeah. I'm not, like, out here spreading COVID. Dash. Can you imagine if she did that to me? That'd be shitty as hell. It would be shitty as hell. Your book tour gave us COVID and then... I know. And then... And then... And then... But no, it's just a cold. It's one of those kids are back to school. I get all the delicious germs that come floating in here.
Morbid
Episode 628: The Murder of Nancy Evans Titterton
Honestly, they deserve that praise because this was really good police work. Incredible.
Morbid
Episode 628: The Murder of Nancy Evans Titterton
I love that he was like, ah, I knew I was missing something. Evidence.
Morbid
Episode 628: The Murder of Nancy Evans Titterton
I just eat them up. The most wonderful time of the year.
Morbid
Episode 628: The Murder of Nancy Evans Titterton
That's why you're sick. Oh, yeah. Because I determined my kids, like, they're not sick, knock on wood.
Morbid
Episode 628: The Murder of Nancy Evans Titterton
That's exactly what I was thinking. Yeah. That was very specific, what he was saying, so there could absolutely be truth to that. But it's just being weird. That's the thing. To me, I'm not like, wow, he's insane. It's like, no... He seems just strange.
Morbid
Episode 628: The Murder of Nancy Evans Titterton
He seems a little weird. Exactly. But not weird enough that he's not fully functioning in society. And it's like, if you're fully functioning... holding down a job, having a romantic relationship, then you know what you're doing. Yeah. You know you're aware of the consequences of your actions.
Morbid
Episode 628: The Murder of Nancy Evans Titterton
They're just carrier pigeons here bringing it into me. When we have like lots of after school activities that we have to like go in different directions to, I will like have to be like eating, you know, kind of quick and on the go. So if they don't finish something, I'll just like quickly eat it up.
Morbid
Episode 628: The Murder of Nancy Evans Titterton
Boom! Someone that could, like, just, can you answer that quick question, please?
Morbid
Episode 628: The Murder of Nancy Evans Titterton
Oh, no. I could not stop there. I'd be like, so why did you say you was?
Morbid
Episode 628: The Murder of Nancy Evans Titterton
And it's like, you just said some bullshit. Like, you just laid down some bullshit. And then had to sit up there and undermine your own shit. Yeah, they just untie that bullshit with one finger. Yeah. Also, it's giving Elle Woods. It is.
Morbid
Episode 628: The Murder of Nancy Evans Titterton
Yeah, and honestly, I agree. Yeah. In that sense. Yeah. Where it's like, yeah, that's hard. That's his family. They know him better than anybody. I don't think he should be going to the death penalty because I don't really think it's... You know, we've already discussed how we feel about that.
Morbid
Episode 628: The Murder of Nancy Evans Titterton
And then later lied about it. Yeah. And made a... At the scene, he said, oh, a maniac must have done that. That shows you he knew exactly what he had done.
Morbid
Episode 628: The Murder of Nancy Evans Titterton
That's why I can't, like... Well, I'm not, like, a fan of the death penalty.
Morbid
Episode 628: The Murder of Nancy Evans Titterton
I don't think, like, he's crazy, but no. No. I don't think he is. I think he's just a weirdo.
Morbid
Episode 628: The Murder of Nancy Evans Titterton
Yeah, I think he's, like, in the negative connotation a weirdo. Yeah, he's disturbed. And I think he needs to go to jail forever. Yeah. But that's it. Like, I don't think he's insane. I don't think there's this whole confusion that they're claiming, I think, is highly exaggerated.
Morbid
Episode 628: The Murder of Nancy Evans Titterton
He even said when she tried to scream, he would throttle her to stop her. Which tells you. That's showing that he didn't want to be caught and he knew he was doing something bad and he did something awful to make sure it was covered up. Exactly. So fuck this guy. Exactly. Thank you. And now all of a sudden I'm like, fuck that.
Morbid
Episode 628: The Murder of Nancy Evans Titterton
A family of a monster who seemingly has nothing to do with what they've done. It's like, that's a whole different... I do feel bad for them.
Morbid
Episode 628: The Murder of Nancy Evans Titterton
Yeah, but I think he is. A maniac is a great way to describe him.
Morbid
Episode 628: The Murder of Nancy Evans Titterton
He's a bitter leech. Yeah. He called it. He said a maniac did that. He knows what he is. And it's like he should be kept away from society for sure.
Morbid
Episode 628: The Murder of Nancy Evans Titterton
I know. Because you raped and murdered somebody.
Morbid
Episode 628: The Murder of Nancy Evans Titterton
I know. Yeah, we all know. You did something fucking terrible. Like, God. You can't get a chance after you. Give me a chance. Can you give Nancy a chance? Nope, you can't.
Morbid
Episode 628: The Murder of Nancy Evans Titterton
Because you raped and murdered her. Exactly.
Morbid
Episode 628: The Murder of Nancy Evans Titterton
Like, what an amazing case, like, on the police side of it. And what a sad, senseless. And what a tragic case on the crime side of it. Like, Nancy, you just feel like, holy shit. Like, yeah, she was just getting her career off the ground. And she was just having a delivery. She's just home. We all get deliveries. All the time.
Morbid
Episode 628: The Murder of Nancy Evans Titterton
You let someone come into your home and plop down a piece of furniture and you hope they're not there for nefarious reasons.
Morbid
Episode 628: The Murder of Nancy Evans Titterton
Like, this is a grown-up drink. They're like, what? They're like, wow, TT. Yeah. You're crazy. Yeah, so any parents or people taking care of little kids out there, my thoughts are with you at this difficult time. Your heart will go on.
Morbid
Episode 628: The Murder of Nancy Evans Titterton
I know. Hopefully I'm building some immunity. I'm on vitamins. Yeah, take some emergency. Yeah. We love an emergency moment here. I do too, yeah. Some liquid IV.
Morbid
Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
You touch my kids, I will kill you.
Morbid
Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
This is Ass, you guys. No, we wanted to start out again... I don't know when this comes out. You know, that's going to be a running theme for a few months. I don't know when this is going to come out. But we just wanted to say to everybody in the L.A. area.
Morbid
Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
That's what's so sad to me is when it's like a resources thing.
Morbid
Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
Where it's like we could check all these, we just don't have enough people.
Morbid
Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
That we are so sorry. And it is literally the scariest thing to watch from the other side of the country. I can't imagine. I can't imagine being there. It's...
Morbid
Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
The fact that he was following this and was like, oh no, that's the guy and I'm going to make sure they know that. A lot of people, and it sounds sad, but it's like a lot of people wouldn't. They don't want to get themselves involved. They don't want to get re-involved. They don't want to deal with it again. This guy was like, nah, fuck this guy. That's the thing.
Morbid
Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
Thank goodness mom can't come bail this fucker out. Honestly, mom should be ashamed of herself.
Morbid
Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
Yeah, you just, I don't, like, you can agree or not. Whatever. Yeah. But there's a certain time when they have to face the music. When the police continuously come to your home saying your son is accused of doing this crazy ass shit. You can't enable a child who is a grown adult now. It's not like they're a child. It's not like you're saving a child from, you know. Yeah. This is a grown adult.
Morbid
Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
He's making stupid decisions and he's hurting people. It's time to start holding him accountable for it.
Morbid
Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
Yeah. And that's the thing. It's time to start letting the justice system hold him accountable. Yeah.
Morbid
Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
Like, really? Okay. He's like, I bet this is totally like off the record. Yeah, totally. No one's going to hear this.
Morbid
Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
You know, prison is a place where no one hears anything.
Morbid
Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
Yeah. And then, boom. Oh, my God. To hear that lock click must have been... The most exhilarating and terrifying moment of any of their lives. Such a double-edged sword. You're like, we're going to find evidence. We can nail this fucker. Like, this is our time.
Morbid
Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
It's a badass community, though, it looks like.
Morbid
Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
What the fuck are we going to find in here?
Morbid
Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
Because everybody's really pulling together and hopefully, you know, rebuild and get it all back to where, you know, some semblance of where it was. We're going to try to do something to help.
Morbid
Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
I am so glad that this fucker died. Same. And I hope it was so painful. Awful. Same.
Morbid
Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
I hope Rodney Alcala got the same kind of experience that Angelus had on Buffy.
Morbid
Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
Where the soul suddenly hits and every bad thing you've ever done rushes. Like I hope he had to feel every bad thing he's ever done.
Morbid
Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
Wow. Dumbass. I'm so glad he's so fucking stupid. Same. Like, that is helpful. Very helpful when they're dumb as fuck.
Morbid
Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
I remember Robin was 12. 12. I remember Tali was eight. Eight. Like, do not forget that. I'm not taking away from the young women that also lost their lives. No, there was 15-year-olds. Man, he really hit every age group. He had no actual profile except for woman. Exactly. Yeah.
Morbid
Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
I don't think we think enough, like the average person, about the kind of shit that the people who go to these crime scenes and detectives have to see and have to comb through and then have to just place aside and move on to the next one. Like these people have to comb through stuff like that and then go eat dinner with their family. Yeah.
Morbid
Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
Like they have to see these awful pictures of an eight-year-old girl being assaulted. Yeah. And brutally like harmed and attempted to be murdered. And then some have to go home and see their child. Yeah. And then just send them off to school or send them down the street to play or whatever.
Morbid
Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
We're going to try to do something, but we just wanted to tell you guys, like, we're thinking of you. We love you. We work with a lot of people in L.A. We have friends in L.A. We have loved ones there. So, like... We're thinking of you. Yeah, we love you. And we're sending you good vibes and we're sorry. We are. And sorry that you're probably hearing this so late.
Morbid
Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
human capabilities you can see why a lot of detectives like end up oh yeah having so much trouble in there personally absolutely we even say like after recording a case like this it's tough but if I have to if I was forced via my job description to have to look through every single crime scene photo like things that are not released to the public and like Yeah. That would break most people.
Morbid
Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
I think there's so many cases where I've thought about, I'm like, I can't imagine the people looking at the photos here. No, because it would break so many people.
Morbid
Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
Juries are shown wild photos sometimes, and sometimes they need extensive therapy. That's actually one of my biggest fears, is getting called to jury duty for an awful case. And having to be exposed to some of this stuff, because it's like...
Morbid
Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
Damn. The people who do this stuff are different kinds of people. They really are.
Morbid
Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
Yeah, I was going to say, and I'm sorry if this sounds like weird coming weeks later, but we're still thinking of you. We just wanted to say something anyways, no matter how late it was. Yeah, just so you know in the moment that we're thinking of you. Yeah. But also, one thing we wanted to say before this began was like... On a happy note.
Morbid
Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
When they can get that stuff done, I'm like, hell yeah.
Morbid
Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
We're so happy that you guys seem to really vibe with episode 638, I believe it is. Our last episode. I don't know if it's our last. It's not our last episode.
Morbid
Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
I don't know what the fuck is going on, guys. I just know that you vibed with an episode. You vibed with the episode, The Crash of Uruguayan Air Flight 571. That was a great story.
Morbid
Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
Like, what are you doing? Nothing good. You're just going back to work?
Morbid
Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
I am literally shocked. Without words. This is the most disgusting behavior outside of, like, being a murderer. It's also just bizarre. You're like, is that true? Like, are you...
Morbid
Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
I get why she lied about it in the first place because the actual truth that she was forced to tell under oath is so bad and makes that person look so fucked up.
Morbid
Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
That first story was to cover up what this looks like. It is. Because to me, this looks like, what the fuck is wrong with you? Well, I mean, yeah. Why the fuck are you out here walking around? Multiple... Why are you returning to the scene multiple times? You are returning multiple times. That's... Insane behavior. Because it's also like, okay, what's wrong with you?
Morbid
Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
Oh, I'd be like, we need to take a real hard look into this person's background because what the fuck is going on there?
Morbid
Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
the survivalness of it all well and i it seemed like you guys were like first of all thanks for saying like that was a great episode like that i think dave did an amazing job with the research on that episode the story is just like such a harrowing story and i was really excited to tell it in a way that was a little different and kind of didn't didn't go didn't go so hard on the uh salacious what people see as the salacious aspects of it you highlight
Morbid
Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
I get you saying I didn't want to testify. I get it. Because I think about that all the time. That if you just happen to stumble upon a body, you're now fully involved in that investigation. And that sucks. That's a nightmare. Because you didn't ask to be fully involved in that. It sucks ass. It's a lot of weight to carry. I totally get that. Hearing that makes a little... Nope, doesn't.
Morbid
Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
I get that. I get that feeling. It still doesn't make sense. You still have an obligation as a fellow human. You just do. I know it's going to suck, but you have a fucking obligation as a fellow human. You see blonde hair? This is a 12-year-old. And you know that a 12-year-old girl is missing.
Morbid
Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
You think you saw them. So it's like you saw her alive. And now you're just going to work and going home and acting and letting your fucking co-worker throw her bones about?
Morbid
Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
Here's the other thing too. Again, I understand not wanting to have to testify and not wanting, being thrust into the investigation like that. I can't imagine. I've never stumbled upon a dead body.
Morbid
Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
But, Why did you keep going back to it? If you didn't want to be involved in this, why the fuck did you keep going and looking at that body? Because you involved yourself. And to me, that tells me that you're fucking curious and you don't know. Like, there's something wrong here. That's not somebody who doesn't want to be involved.
Morbid
Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
Call someone. And it is. Call someone. You don't need to go back four different times and smell that smell to know that you're looking at a human being. Let's be real.
Morbid
Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
like bring a work crew out there it's just i can't again i can get down with you the feeling of being scared to have to testify and be involved in the whole thing what you did is fucked up beyond measure and i can't understand it no So that's that. Damn, I didn't see that happening. Yeah, no one did.
Morbid
Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
No, it doesn't. It's kind of stupid.
Morbid
Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
I agree. I know it's like a case-by-case thing. No, I know. In a lot of cases, it can be stupid.
Morbid
Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
They thought she, this child was at fault for going with the scrum man.
Morbid
Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
more of the actual important details. But thank you for recognizing that and thank you for letting us know how much you liked it. That was very nice to see.
Morbid
Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
In this case, I'm not saying all defense attorneys, but in this case, that's some slimy shit. In this actual case, it is horrifying.
Morbid
Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
And I think you guys really vibed with how it was an episode about people like coming together to overcome seemingly impossible odds in a terrible, terrible, horrible, no good situation that seemed to have no positive like silver lining whatsoever. But because they worked together and they stayed together, they were able to get out of it. And I think that's important. Everybody... Work together.
Morbid
Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
Multiple times for assaulting young children and women. Like you're defending a predator. That's a problem. And he's an established murderer. And I get it. I know. I know. Somebody needs to defend all the people and all that shit. I don't like it in this case.
Morbid
Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
So he didn't even need to introduce that. They were like, yeah. No, they were like, we got you. And honestly, life was going to introduce him the death penalty anyways, so that's good.
Morbid
Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
Everybody knows our stances and all that on the death penalty. I don't need to say it again, but I can say 100%. I would be 100% for it if it was my child. Yep. Yep.
Morbid
Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
Well, babe, you're a predator. So that's for life, babe. That's the thing. That's for life.
Morbid
Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
Yeah, trying to rebuild the pieces of their life for six years. Yeah. And then it gets opened right back up.
Morbid
Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
Let's all work together. Let's stay together. Let's be kind to each other. Let's take care of each other. Lean on each other. Lean on each other. That's all. That's all we're saying. We're not going to get into a big thing. I'm just saying, like, let's all just work together here. Yeah, definitely.
Morbid
Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
Someone dig his corpse up so we can all kick him in the nuts. Literally.
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Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
He should not have been allowed to keep doing this.
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Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
I've had years and years to sit and stew over this. And I finally come up with the perfect plan to get out of it. Can you let me have another trial? And they're like, sure. And it's like, it's again, a slippery slope.
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Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
No, it's a perfectly imperfect system. It is. And this is a perfect example of it. Our first instinct is to say, fuck this. He shouldn't be allowed to keep doing this. And then you can flip it right to the other side and go, but... There's so many innocent people that get convicted. That need that time. And they do come up with a way that finally they can tell people that they are innocent.
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Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
And they deserve that time. So 100%. It's so tough. It's perfectly imperfect. Flawed. That's why it's such a case by case situation. basis, even us making a blanket statement like, I shouldn't be allowed to do this, is not true. It's just not. He shouldn't have been able to do this.
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Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
You have to give a little bit of an amendment when you make a blanket statement.
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Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
Because look at what terrible situation these people were able to get out of just by never giving up, never laying down and accepting what they thought their fate was. No matter how hopeless they felt. Insurmountable the odds seemed. Thank you.
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Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
and Jill Parenteau's cases. Oops, all that time sitting around didn't get you to realize that they can now nail you to the wall even better than they could before.
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Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
In fact, beyond a shadow of a doubt now.
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Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
I love that. That he was like, oh, I'm innocent again. And then they were like, oops, now we can actually get you for more.
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Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
Those are things that do need to look at.
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Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
I think there's a lot of instances where it becomes their own personal kink. Yes. And it's allowed to be on display. And the fact that they are doing it in front of the victim's families becomes part of their kink. Yes. And it shouldn't be allowed to be done. One gajillion percent. There needs to be some safe...
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Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
What? Are you really trying to be like, let me explain it to him? Are you trying to mansplain the death penalty to everybody? It's like, yeah, we know. People will wait 20 years to see you die.
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Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
Why? Why are you letting him do that? Why? In front of victims' families, too.
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Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
But in front of victims' families. What? Who know what happened to their loved ones.
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Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
I know that sounds like a stupid statement.
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Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
Which... You shouldn't be allowing a convicted killer and child predator to be talking to people that way.
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Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
You just shouldn't. They shouldn't have the podium to be saying that shit. To be talking to people, period. Yeah.
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Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
But to be sitting there being like, let me preach to you that you're the same. Nah, babe.
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Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
Shameful. Why was anybody else allowed to ever come across this man's path? Yeah. The only icon in that scenario is Donald Hayes. Yes. He was the only one that made a move to stop anything from happening and they just washed it aside. And without him, oh my God. It could have even been worse.
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Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
Let me find it. It's fun. That's one of the reasons, because I'm telling, you know, it's 2025. Why don't we just get like really vibey here for a minute? Because it's going to get really dark in a couple minutes. But 2025, guys, read. Read a lot of books. Get off of social media. Get off of the doom scrolling. It's turned into kind of a shitstorm on there anyways. Read some books. I'm telling you.
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Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
I can't fathom being one of those women.
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Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
No, send that motherfucker where he needs to go. I don't give a shit if he's sick. Because she lost her life.
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Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
I had no idea. I knew he was really bad.
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Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
Yeah, we're talking about Buffy in case you haven't listened to it. Ash hasn't seen the whole Buffy series. She's watching it for the first time. I've seen it a million times. And we have Mikey on there with us who has also seen it a million times. So we got varying degrees of Buffy watching this. And we're going episode by episode.
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Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
I think we're in the sixth season right now, like halfway through. About halfway. And it's a lot of fun. We end up laughing until we cry every single episode. So it's well worth it. A very good palate cleanser if you need it.
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Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
You're going to like once you get in the vibe and you find a genre you like or you find like an author you really like or just a vibe of book you like, you're going to come out of each book being like, fuck, one, I learned something. Two, I felt shit. And three, you're going to know new different words. Like you're going to come out of there with some vocab. It's fun. Excellence. And that's fun.
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Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
So we'll vary it up. Keep your eyes out. Something for everybody.
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Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
So that was weird. Yeah, that's the thing. So, but it's, you know what, this new year, I think, Like, we all, like, especially in the pod lab, I feel like we all, and actually in this house, because, like, John was that way, too. We all had these, like, just thoughts of, like, you know what? I'm unplugging. Yeah.
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Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
I'm taking a step back from all this, like, you know, internet, social media hailstorm that's happening and just, like, enjoying the small things more. Yeah. And I think everybody needs to do that a little bit.
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Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
I'm going to go touch it when the snow melts. But it gives you more time to do things that make you happy and actually feed you.
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Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
Oh, okay. I've never heard that word before.
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Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
What is this outlet that's sending you these words every day? Because maybe people want that. Word daily. That's very easy to remember. So word daily, I guess, if you want a word of the day. Things like that. It's so fun. That's the thing. The Internet can be great. And these are the things that the Internet is great for.
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Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
We were all behind him pushing him off.
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Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
Which I think is why he had no regard for being on parole, because if you don't see the parole people having any regard, you're like, why should I?
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Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
Yeah, the regards were in short supply back then. The regard was not in the room with us or anyone. No one could find it.
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Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
And if you look at him in those clips... Dead. They were right on target.
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Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
You look at him and you're like, gross. There's something just gross about him. Skeevy. Yeah.
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Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
Yep, we're still really short on the regard.
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Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
Because one of the things you have to think about is she probably thought, oh shit, the person's probably still in this house.
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Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
Like the range of emotions and fear you would feel. Oh, yeah. There's immediate fight or flight, and flight would absolutely kick in.
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Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
What the fuck? That's like strangers.
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Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
Because I think it's like the beating. He knows he's going to administer. He doesn't need to bring anything with him. Yeah. That's so scary.
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Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
He's like, he's seriously a wild animal.
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Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)
When you really stop to think about what these attacks must be like. Oh, yeah. It is beyond your wildest nightmare.
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
That's www.ynab.com slash morbid. Life is short. Spend it well with YNAB. Hey, weirdos, I'm Alayna. And I'm Ash. And this is... What would it be backwards? Hold on. M-O-R-B-I-T. This is... Dibrom.
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
I love that in all this time he called you guys to reiterate that information. He could have just called the pizza people himself.
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
Also, don't be an idiot. Don't make a joke of a crime scene unless you want to get scarred for life. You just walked under yellow tape.
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
I'm also like, where was anybody telling you not to? I know no one's stopping you.
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
All right. My next one is Listener Tale Holiday Hanukkah Ghosts. It's a miracle. Just kidding. It's a puttafa. A miracle. A miracle. Truly a miracle. I know puttafas are a miracle. They are. All right. So it says, Hi, lovely ladies. I initially sent this back in April when I was new to your show and had just heard last year's Holiday Listener Tales episode.
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
Since then, I have become so much older and wiser and am therefore resending this as a double-spaced puttafa. and at the appropriate time of year, and I'm not going to apologize for the fact that it's really long. Never. See, I've learned so much from you. You have. When you said you hadn't heard many Hanukkah-related ghost stories, I knew I had to chime in. They said this is my time to shine.
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
It's my time, baby. By the way, hi, my name is Emma, and you can use it because it would be so thrilling to hear it coming from your beautiful voices. Is that creepy? No, Emma. Emma, Emma, Emma, Emma, Emma.
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
First, I have to say that since April, I have listened to every episode and have become a hardcore follower. Thank you. Love you. It's so nice to find such a badass couple of women in this very male-dominated genre.
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
Yes! I especially appreciate your sisterly relationship. It's really at its peak today. Oh, no. It's really on display. It's on display every day. And it reminds me of my own relationship with my younger brother. As a historian, I really value all the research you do to bring your stories into life. And Dave. I was going to say shout out to Dave. Shout out to Dave. As a historian.
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
Just one more time. I have to give a special shout out to the Lake Shawnee Amusement Park episode. I love that episode. That was such a good episode. Whoa. I haven't been that terrified since, well, my own ghostly experiences. which I am going to share with you right now. Hell yeah. I am playing with my hair more than you ever would. And I can't stop. Should I be playing with mine? Obviously.
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
Starting at the beginning, I grew up in a Queen Anne Victorian in San Francisco. Wake up, San Francisco. Whoa. Shut up.
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
had just sent a ghost hunter slash paranormal investigator to every house on our street for research for her new book about ghosts that is wild i wonder which book in particular it was i don't know but what what a like what a life to live what a flex that is a flex they're just knocking on doors being like ah so miss steel down the road sent us to research your house she'd like to know if your house is haunted damn that's great
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
The realtor was thrilled to inform my parents that ghosts had, in fact, been found in their new house. Yippee! One of the defining features of my parents' house is that it has a super long, creepy hallway. We love it. My room and my brother's nursery were on the opposite end of the long hallway from my parents' room. Thanks, Mom and Dad.
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
And we were quick to discover that was the more haunted end of the house. Thanks. Thanks again. Yikes. Many of the standards occurred in those early days. You know, lights flickering, doors opening. Elena, I know you can relate to all of the times as a teenager. I literally said out loud, okay, ghost, I need to sleep now. Please stop opening my door. I literally have said that before.
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
I was like, I really got to get sleep. After having to get up three times.
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
As a child, the sound of someone walking up and down the creaky hallway was unmistakable. I would lie in bed and listen to the sound of someone slowly approaching my room from the far end of the house. Ooh. Yeah. That's like when, because I moved into Elena's room after she moved out and you could hear the footsteps all night, but going up the stairs.
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
So you would have this moment where you were like, is it a burglar or is it the ghost? Am I about to be killed? And you just never know.
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
And it sounded like work boots. Yeah, it did. Like heavy work boots. Mm-hmm. Some days my mom, sister, and I would remark about how the previous night had been particularly noisy to the effect of, did you hear the hallway last night? Oh yeah, you did too? Did you hear the hallway was bumping last night? That hallway went crazy. My dad was always the unbeliever.
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
the most frightening thing i remember happening constantly as a young child though was when i was when i would hear people putting dishes away in the kitchen about halfway down the hallway there was a banister to the staircase that used to be the maid's staircase or the back stairs to the kitchen i remember telling myself my parents must be unloading the dishwasher even though it was late i would creep out of my room and peer over the banister down into the kitchen to see all the lights off oh no
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
Oh, so freaky. Just some ghost dinner parties. Yeah. When I went to college, my little brother took over my bedroom. That's hilarious because I was just saying literally the same thing. You guys got to talk more. I know, seriously. No. I'm sure you're dying to hear about the Hanukkah part by now. No, let's go. As you have mentioned, Elena, our ghosts also like to join the party.
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
We saw way more activity during and after big parties and, of course, renovations. Oh, yes. You probably want to know what made my dad a believer. I do. I do. I really do. Yeah, we do. It wasn't the footsteps in the hallway or my door opening or the dishes or the secret door in the wall of the basement.
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
buried the lead there sister girl what and then in parentheses yep yeah or finding whiskey bottles in newspapers from the early 1900s in the rafters during guess what renovations oh my god that must have been so cool no it wasn't those things it was the hanukkah party that went on after we all went to bed there was a hanukkah party after you went to bed i kind of love that i love it
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
Well, the end of the hallway where my bedroom was is still to this day for sure a hot spot. The dining room is the place that as children we always avoided and held our breath whenever we had to switch on or off the lights. It had the most haunted look as it had all the original mahogany wall paneling from the 19th century. I just felt like more of a rose in that moment. Oh, I love that.
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
I need to see it. Please send a picture. Yeah, I want to see. It's the place also with the most ghostly vibes. I love it. It is Obvi where my parents hosted company. So one Hanukkah night, I came into the city with some friends when I was in college at Berkeley and my mom made latkes. Oh! For a group of about 10 to 15 people, including some family friends.
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
Something to know about my mom is that she's legally blind. So A, she would def not have been putting dishes away in the dark at any point in my childhood. And B, she has a very unique way of checking to make sure all the candles are out at the end of the night. My parents are very fire cautious. Ours too.
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
Her mother. Wouldn't let us. Yeah, they would not let us. No. Ever. She. She.
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
So when we would all go up to bed, if the menorah was not done burning yet, you don't blow out those candles. Nuh-uh. Oh, yeah. My parents would put it in the sink to finish burning without, you know, burning the house down. Oh, that's pretty smart. Anyone else do this, fellow Jews? Because that would scare me.
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
Leaving a candle of any kind lit. Yeah. I never even thought of that. Debbie was saying that her and Pat, her husband, used to bet on which candle would go out first. So they wouldn't go to bed at all. They'd just wait for the candles to burn out. That makes sense. I get that.
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
Yeah, the sink trick is very smart. Yeah, because then it's pretty safe. Because if it falls, it's in the sink.
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
to my knowledge you're like that water's right there yeah uh anyway point being my parents were very fire conscious and even after my dad checked my mom would go around feeling the wicks of the candles on the table with her fingers damn to make sure they were not only out but not even hot anymore that is some badass mom energy right there she's like i'm just gonna i'm just gonna palm the flame for real if there is one palm the flame damn does she have fingertips anymore seriously
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
So this night, after celebrating the miracle of fried food when my friends and I had gone back to college and my parents had long gone to bed, my dad, you know, the unbeliever, was woken up around two or three by a tapping on the front door. No. Also some fun news. Our front door is 500 pounds of 10 foot tall cast iron and glass. I need photos of this house. Seriously, that house sounds gorgeous.
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
I need photos. Photos. Photos. I need them. I need pictures. I love it. My dad described the noise as somebody tapping a fingernail on the glass door repeatedly. One of these?
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
One of these? It got stuck to me. That was weird. It's literally just a post-it, but I didn't like it anyway.
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
Um, hi, bye. Nope. Yeah, that's how I feel. He went down the front stairs and heard it again, then whipped his head around as he heard my mom's cell phone charging in the corner suddenly power off. As he turned his head to the open door of the living room, there was one candle in the middle of the dining room table, still lit and illuminating the ghost Hanukkah dinner party. I'm obsessed.
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
Guess what? My dad believes now. Around the same time he was scanning photos for my grandma's birthday slide show. Yes, when scanning was a thing we did.
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
It's so funny because I thought you meant like looking. Oh my god.
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
Now, between then and my latest story, I met my husband while living in Albuquerque, New Mexico. We moved in together into a rented, gorgeous octagonal, is that how you say it? Octagonal? Octagonal. Octagonal. Because that's something you can do as a graduate student in Albuquerque.
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
Oh, yeah. We thought it was so cool that they were always shooting Breaking Bad right across the street. Am I dating myself? Yes, I am. Hell yeah. Yes, I'm 35. Hi, Alina. Hi. What's up? Your ass. I mean, I'm so young. I'm so young. She's so old. Shut up. Excuse me. Fuck you. I told my then boyfriend, now husband, about my experiences growing up in a haunted house and he was intrigued.
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
But like many boyfriends before, thought it was more of a funny story than a scary one. Yeah. He had never had any scary, scary ghost encounters.
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
Uh-oh. You were about to bring it to him. Literally. The first night we slept in the bedroom, we were falling asleep when we were jolted out of bed to a truly horrifying sound. It was like the walls started cracking all around us, but, like, in a clockwise circle. Like, this cracking would sweep around the room in a circle from one side to the other, enveloping us in the bed. What the fuck?
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
Never figured out what that was. I love... I'm obsessed. Anti-climactic isn't even the right word. It's just like nonchalant as fuck.
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
We're going to move on from that. Wow. We would frequently see shadows moving in the dining room, which was a separate room with a swinging door on each end, and each of those little pass-through windows into the middle of the kitchen. While standing in the kitchen, we would catch the shadows out of the corner of our eye through the little window.
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
I think I remember you talking about dining rooms in particular in one spooky episode. Probably. Yeah, I'm sure at some point. The kitchen was the room where things would literally move. We would put our phones down in there, then it would be gone. We'd search the house for 20 minutes and then come back to find it in the same place where we left it. That's fucked up.
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
Things would move and fall on the floor when we were sitting in the living room with our backs turned to the kitchen. Once I actually saw a plastic bag come up and out of a drawer and fall onto the floor and thought, cool, that's what those noises are. Wow. Again, not a chalant to be found. Or actually the most chalants to be found, really. Yeah.
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
But the worst was the shared hallucination slash dreams my husband and I would have. Ooh, let's get into it.
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
We would both frequently wake up to a dark shadow with a sinister presence standing in the corner of our bedroom. That sounds like it sucks.
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
i don't like it we would both also see some sort of spinning plate above our heads in bed what after years of living in my parents house i never felt a sinister present from those ghosties i was comforted by the movie the others thinking that ghosts didn't know that they were haunting us oh that's kind of how i feel about papa's house yeah they're not trying to bum you out i always just think they lived here first they're just going about their business you know yeah it's like um i was gonna say residential hauntings you're gonna say resident evil and i was like what
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
Interesting. I was going to, I meant to say residual hauntings, but I said residential. That makes more sense. You just thought Resident Evil, you know? That kind of wasn't Ash's verse. You all right? You're pretty.
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
It's the blonde. It's the blonde. We actually bleached Elena's hair. We did.
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
Oh my God, Matt. One time we did. That's, no, you guys saw when I did my hand flip, it almost went flat. All right, all right, all right. But that Albuquerque bedroom was dark. My husband shared the feeling. We could not wait to get out of there. So by the time we were staying at my parents' house when I was pregnant with my son in 2019, congrats.
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
My husband had no longer thought the ghosts were some cool backstory. He had his own haunting experiences. And while he never had heard anything too out of the ordinary in my parents' house, he believed my stories.
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
It is. He also said he never felt anything sinister like he did in Albuquerque. Sinister vibe. Until I was pregnant, sinister vibe. Uh-oh, then it became sinister. Sinister baby. Baby.
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
Sinister baby. Something changed. At that point, I had started sleeping with noise-canceling headphones on because, hi, pregnancy, a.k.a. the time when you don't sleep before you have a baby and then you don't sleep some more. Oh, it's a beautiful time.
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
The first time I slept at my parents' house when I was pregnant, I was upstairs on the third floor, which used to be the maid's quarters in the Victorian days. I started staying in there when I was in town when my brother took over my old room, as it tends to be less spooky up there. It's interesting that the third floor is less spooky.
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
Anyway, I guess the ghosts weren't that thrilled with that development because I woke up in the middle of the night to the feeling of someone's hand squeezing my knee. Nope. I hate that. I told myself it was sleep paralysis and didn't move for a few minutes. Though my thought was, oh shit, do ghosts like babies or something? Oh no.
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
There's a lot in life that feels like it should be guaranteed, but it just isn't. Things like your friends being on their way when they text you LMW or getting out the same number of socks from the dryer that you put in. AT&T is introducing a new guarantee, the AT&T Guarantee, because there's a lot in life that's not guaranteed.
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
When I came back five months later for my baby shower, my husband was with me and I was much more pregnant.
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
i could not get comfortable in the full-size bed with him so i woke him up and made him relocate to my old bedroom where my mom and dad had put a king bed temporarily because of yup renovations oh my god sleeping pregnant not sleeping pregnant yeah such an experience that must be a lot the more pregnant you get the more you're just like get the fuck away from me everybody it's kind of like it's just getting you ready when for when the baby comes because then you're never gonna see oh yeah it makes you real ready
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
yeah it's it's like conditioning it is well i put my headphones on and told myself i was too preggers for this shit you were but five minutes later my husband woke me up take off your headphones uh that feeling in my stomach i knew what was going on what'd you hear i asked him oh no he said my dad must be walking up and down the hallway never mind i didn't really want to move so preggers so i said okay five minutes later okay that's it he shook me awake
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
i've never worn bronzer i don't have any bronzer on right now and i feel naked i didn't over align my lips nope i did you did you actually look great with an overlined lip oh my god thank you um oh we forgot to put long nails on elena we did i should have stuck like pieces of tape or something on there All right, we're back. We said if you're not wearing nails, then you're not doing drag.
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
I heard the shuffling sound in the hallway and I could deal with it until I heard it come into the room. Oh, I don't love that. The shuffling steps came down the hall and straight into the room to the foot of our bed, despite the fact that the bedroom door was still closed. No. I knew exactly the sound he was talking about. All right, we're going back upstairs, I said.
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
I know exactly what you're talking about. And it's never my dad. No matter how many times I told myself that it was growing up, it's just never my dad.
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
Well, I hope you enjoyed my spooky Hanukkah tales. I love it. Thanks so much and keep it weird, but not so weird that you move from one haunted house to another one in New Mexico because they film Breaking Bad across the street. You know where the scenes where Walter meets Lydia at the cafe and then you move out because there's somebody who's not doing well living in the backyard stalking you.
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
Yep, skipped that part. And also a shadowy presence in your bedroom. And things move themselves in the kitchen with the little pass-through window to the haunted dining room and then get pregnant and have ghosts... Be way too into your unborn child. Okay, this took me three hours to write. Hope you like it. Bye. Emma, if you can't tell, I'm an Elena Fane girl.
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
P.S. Since writing this to you, I was contacted by an old friend from middle school who told me she has vivid memories of hiding in the bathroom because she was too afraid to cross the haunted hallway to get back to my bedroom. Damn. Yay! Whoa. I definitely stood alone in the living room feeling the vibes and shamelessly asked the real estate agent if they knew of any hauntings before we signed.
Morbid
Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
Like a long time alone feeling the vibes. And I said aloud, are you there, Sergeant? Necessary. And happy to report, only good vibes. I love picturing you in the middle of your living room just going, are you there, Sergeant?
Morbid
Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
i you would hate this yeah you would too you would hate this for sure we would hate this i think you would hate i would hate this as well as ash yeah yeah you would hate that so much yeah okay that's what i thought i would like the i would like the partying part and the floating part earlier in my life yeah i think these days i think i'd be like i'm too tired could you be just like a floater
Morbid
Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
And everyone else does. No, because I can't. I couldn't float for like three to four hours. I feel like I would panic.
Morbid
Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
And we're doing drag today, honey. Although my nails have never looked like that. Thank you. And if they fall off, I go immediately to my boy, Helly, Nail Ninja. We're just going to let it go today.
Morbid
Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
All right. Well, take time off to remove nails. No, I never do. No, you can't do it. Only when I take my day off. No. I hate wigs. I hate wigs. Okay. All right. Okay. It's Listener Tales. It's brought to you by you, for you, from you, and all about you.
Morbid
Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
few can who can you know only just me yeah but we have listener tales today um just fixing my nails you are like me today you're getting distracted yeah i'm getting to see i'm like you have to find something to fiddle with oh i do i will don't you worry so should i start um ash or should you elena go ahead i hate it i hate it so start all right start are you gonna do my hair flip hold on
Morbid
Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
I feel like I could, like, feel her energy through the putt-a-foot.
Morbid
Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
And that, I love you. You have great energy, Nicole. That was great energy. Yeah, it filled me with happiness. I loved that. Is this you on the river in your Gmail thing? Is it? I think, oh, no, that's a pool. Oh, okay. But I still love you. Floating in a pool. Wow. All right, so Listener Tales, a lighthearted sign from the afterlife, not afterlice, afterlife Christmas tale.
Morbid
Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
I actually, there was a lice scare at my salon once, and I thought that we were going to get to leave, but we couldn't. You couldn't. You had to stay. That was unfortunate. You had to fight through the lice. Anyways, Listener Tales, a lighthearted sign from the afterlife Christmas tale. About lice. Hey, weirdos. I'm Katie. You can use my real name. Katie. Katie. Katie.
Morbid
Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
I am typing on my phone and can't figure out how to type, how to double space this shit. So I did my best. You know what? Your best is all right. It's great. It's great. It's short and sweet. So hopefully that makes it less strenuous on the eyeballs. Blind is about over here so I can feel the pain. I feel like all I do is listen to Morbid day in and day out. One could say I'm obsessed.
Morbid
Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
I'm obsessed with you. I'm obsessed with you. We're obsessed with you. Hell yeah. Lots of eye rolls for my husband when I shush him for trying to talk to me when he gets home from work and I'm deep in an episode. Priorities. I'm triage that shit. Let's get in. Anyways, let's get into it. Starts sad, but don't worry, it gets better. Cool.
Morbid
Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
When I was in fifth grade, my brother Kevin passed away from, is it glioblastoma? Yes. Oh, I'm so sorry. It's the most aggressive type of brain cancer. I was one of six kids and it was a tough year for all of us, especially my parents having lost a child. I can't imagine. No. We knew the holidays would be particularly rough.
Morbid
Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
When it comes to Christmas, my mom loves wrangling as many of us to help decorate the house as she can. As you can imagine, with six kids, we have all sorts of Christmas ornaments on the tree. I know. From school age. My favorite being my older sister's preschool ornament that is literally just a piece of scotch tape on a string with a reason hanging from it. Everything gets hung up.
Morbid
Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
It's like the SNL back of the Christmas tree skit. My mother-in-law sends that to us every Christmas. It's so funny.
Morbid
Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
I love it. We have a lot of ornaments with our names on them and we scour the box to find our respective ornaments and hang them up. So one morning right around Christmas time, the year my brother passed away, my dad came to us and said, you'll never believe what happened last night. As a brief backstory, my brother absolutely loved the 90s karate movies, Bruce Lee vibes. He sounds amazing.
Morbid
Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
Watch them constantly, especially when he was sick and home all the time. It was a running joke in our family that those karate movies were always on. My dad said he was laying on the couch in the family room watching TV after we had all gone to bed and heard what he thought was the doorbell ring. He got up to check and no one was there.
Morbid
Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
Before even making it to the couch, the TV in our living room, yeah, late 1990s, early 2000s, we had two gigantic 9,000 pound box TVs, living large. clicked on and it was absolutely blasting a karate movie oh that was him now this tv had channels one through ten so basic so basic shocked it wasn't black and white and the movie was on a channel he saw on the main tv as being in the hundreds
Morbid
Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
yeah like how how yeah he shut it off quick so as not to wake the rest of us up halfway back to the family room it clicks on again full volume blasting the karate movie i love that that what a badass sign to send to your family i love that i love it uh he shut it off again and finally made it back to the couch and decided to have a little chat with my brother at that moment oh my god my heart
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
I'm going to literally cry right now. Oh, God. Oh. bumps of the goose variety oh like full i figured a happy little goose bumpy story would be a good palette cleanser if you will i seriously love you guys so much and we love you and your family please continue to keep it wicked weird oh yeah picture of the ornament included just for funsies oh my god katie oh Wow. Oh, my God.
Morbid
Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
The fact that you're, first, the karate movie happened, and then your dad was like, we miss you, and it's been hard.
Morbid
Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
Oh, we love you guys. We love Christmas. We love 4th of July. We love floating. We love floating. We love each other, clearly, because we really dedicated ourselves to this.
Morbid
Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
If you like Morbid, you can listen early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at wondery.com.
Morbid
Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
The AT&T guarantee means connectivity you can depend on, deals you want, and service you deserve, or they'll make it right. Visit att.com slash guarantee to learn more. AT&T connecting changes everything. Terms and conditions apply. Visit att.com slash guarantee for details. Do you experience bouts of money stress? Do you avoid your bank balance like it's a text from your ex?
Morbid
Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
All right. So like we said, hope your holidays were gorgeous. Fuck you. So this one says, Sarah, the boogin, the boogin, something like that. The boogin? The boogin? No, it's boo. Boogin? Boogin. It's E-N or I-N. It's both.
Morbid
Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
Oh, not another nail. You've got to go see Helly. I know. So to start off this story, I have to give some background on my great-grandma, Bea. She was a very quiet person who kept to herself a lot. When she did talk, it was usually to ask a question, criticize something, or talk about what she called the boogans, boogans. Well, however you spell it. That's what she called ghosts. I like that.
Morbid
Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
She had a lot of encounters with ghosts in her lifetime. Most I can't remember because I was young and she rarely spoke. One encounter I do remember was when she was in the hospital. A man came to her bed and told her, it's not your time yet. Now, a little background of the ghost in question here, Sarah. I grew up in a haunted house.
Morbid
Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
There were certain rooms that would just creep us out and we'd feel something in them. Same. Relatable. Yeah. My house used to be a doctor's office where autopsies were performed and is over 100 years old. So that may play a part in it. Maybe. That's so cool. Maybe. I don't remember this too well, but when I was very little, my parents would find me in my room seemingly by myself.
Morbid
Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
And when asked what I was doing, I would say, I'm playing with Sarah. She seemed friendly, and other family members had seen her on occasion as well. One of the most notable was when my mom came home when the house was empty and saw a little girl staring out the window of one of the rooms that gave us the creeps.
Morbid
Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
My oldest brother saw her and may have used to play with her as well, but I don't quite remember. This happened on Christmas when I was very little. I used to sleep in my brother's room for Christmas Eve, and this particular Christmas, Grandma B was to sleep on a cot in that room as well as she was staying over for the holiday.
Morbid
Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
Now, I overheard my parents talking about Grandma Bee staying over, and they had to use the phrase, sleeps with her eyes open, to indicate that she was a light sleeper. Little me had no idea what that meant, and in my mind, I was shocked, taking it very literally. Like, she's just laying there like...
Morbid
Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
how could somebody sleep with their eyes open so i decided that night christmas night i was gonna see for myself i stayed up in my brother's top bunk patiently and quietly waiting for grandma b to fall asleep then i snuck down the ladder to have a peek i stood over my grandma b to see if she really did sleep with her eyes open grandma b my grandma b did i say that intense no but it just sounds like grandma b grandma b
Morbid
Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
Her eyes were closed as I was looking and then suddenly shot open. I absolutely booked it out of the room and into the bathroom to hide as I was frightened, being caught standing over her. After a while hiding in the bathroom, I went back to bed and fell asleep. The next morning, she told everyone that she had seen Sarah the Boogan standing over her that night. Sarah the Boogan. Sarah the Boogan.
Morbid
Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
I kept silent, but years after she continued to tell that story... And I kept my secret until she passed away, probably almost 20 years later. I finally told my family, and everybody was shocked and very amused that I was the ghost my grandma had seen that night. The boogin. The boogin. I love it. I like that. I like that.
Morbid
Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
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Morbid
Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
Boogans are brutish, hairy, orc, quaggoth, crossbreed, sometimes known as spider killers. You know what? I was about to say that. Huh. But then I didn't want to come off as a know-it-all, you know? I know. Usually that's my job. The Boogans is also a movie. It's Ian. Ooh. But they're like yucky. And then in the Trolls movie, there's Bogans.
Morbid
Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
Side effects may include less financial stress, getting better sleep, and eliminating arguments about money. Warning, using YNAB may be habit-forming. Before starting, ask your wallet if adding more joy to every day and every dollar is right for you. Listeners of Morbid can claim an exclusive three-month trial subscription for free with no credit card required at www.ynab.com slash morbid.
Morbid
Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
Valid. Valid. Questionable and valid all at the same time. The start of the new year is the perfect time to get organized, set goals, and prioritize what matters most. For me, a top priority is my financial wellness, which feels more important now than ever. Thanks to RocketMoney.com, my goals feel achievable.
Morbid
Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
They show me all my subscriptions right in one place, and they help me easily cancel the ones that I forgot about that I've still been paying for. RocketMoney also pulls together all my spending across all of my different accounts so that I can clearly track my spending habits and, you know, be a little more aware of what I can cut back and where I can budget a little more.
Morbid
Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
RocketMoney is a personal finance app that helps you find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions. It monitors your spending and helps you lower your bills so that you can grow your savings. I love that you can see all your subscriptions in one place because you know exactly where your And for the ones that you don't want anymore, Rocket Money can help you cancel them.
Morbid
Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
Rocket Money's dashboard gives you a clear view of your expenses across all your accounts. You can easily create a personalized budget with custom categories to help keep your spending on track. You see your monthly spending trends in each category to know where your money is going. Mine goes mostly to coffee. It's kind of a problem, but we're working on it.
Morbid
Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
Rocket Money has over 5 million users and has saved a total of $500 million in canceled subscriptions. saving members up to $740 a year when using all of the app's premium features. I know they have saved me a ton of money. I'm a huge fan of Rocket Money. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with Rocket Money. Go to rocketmoney.com slash morbid today.
Morbid
Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
That's rocketmoney.com slash morbid, rocketmoney.com slash morbid.
Morbid
Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
He had killed many women at that point. In the year that followed, Alcala would go on to murder several other women until he was finally caught, and luckily, I'll tell you right at the top, convicted for his crimes.
Morbid
Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
Ultimately, he was found guilty of eight murders and various other crimes, but he is suspected of many other murders. Some people believe as many as a hundred or possibly even more.
Morbid
Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
jesus yeah he is vicious oh luckily he's dead thank goodness i just sometimes you gotta give you that yeah you gotta rest in distress rest in distress you absolute piece of shit yep so let's go back to his you know uh roots i guess yeah even though we don't want to Rodrigo Rodney Alcala Bucor, I believe is how you say his last name, he was born August 23, 1943, in San Antonio, Texas.
Morbid
Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
He was one of four children born to Ana Maria Gutierrez and Raul Alcala Bucor. By all accounts, the family enjoyed a pretty normal middle-class life in San Antonio. All of the Alcala children attended Catholic school. And Rodney did really well in school. He worked really hard. He maintained really great grades, like no warning signs, really.
Morbid
Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
None of Rodney's teachers would ever remember him being a problem student. Actually, on the contrary, they said that he was considered respectful and kind. And they all said that he was among the most intelligent children in the class. Wow. Crazy. Now, in 1951, Rodney's grandmother did sadly become terminally ill, and she wanted to return to Mexico to live out her final years.
Morbid
Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
So the family packed up everything they owned, and they moved across the border. Despite the obvious differences, you know, in culture and everything, it seems like life in Mexico was pretty happy for the Alcala family, at least for the first few years. In 1954, when Rodney was just 11, his grandmother, who he had always been really close to, ended up passing away.
Morbid
Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
And of course, that left a giant hole in the family structure. Yeah, of course. Her passing was then soon followed by the very abrupt departure of Rodney's father, who just left the family one day and decided to return to the U.S.
Morbid
Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
oh like he left them with absolutely nothing he was the provider of the family what the hell left them with like nowhere to live left anna maria to figure it all out and all of those kids were just left without a father wow and rodney was 11 holy shit what is interesting though is that obviously I'm sure these experiences were disruptive to him to some degree, and especially all the kids.
Morbid
Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
But for some reason, he seemed pretty unaffected by both of these things, his grandmother dying and his father just leaving the family.
Morbid
Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
Yeah. But it was also a very different time. So it kind of went without notice. After graduating from high school in 1960, Rodney followed his older brother's footsteps and he decided to join the U.S. Army. So he relocated to boot camp in North Carolina, where he trained as a paratrooper and also took on additional clerical work. In 1962, while he was training in North Carolina.
Morbid
Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
I almost said that with an accent. North Carolina. I think that's what happened. And then I was like, don't do that. I feel like, damn. While he was training there, his father actually passed away unexpectedly. Even though, you know, Raul just abandoned the entire family.
Morbid
Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
Almost 10 years earlier at that point. His passing obviously affected his family pretty deeply. But just like with his grandmother's passing years earlier, Rodney seemed pretty unfazed. Yeah, something's off. Something's definitely off. About a year after his father's death is when he really started to exhibit actually unusual behavior.
Morbid
Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
Like obviously that's pretty unusual, but it definitely picked up steam. Throughout his life, he had always been respectful. He followed rules and expectations that had been set for him. But that all changed one evening in 1963. His mom was at her home in L.A.
Morbid
Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
making dinner, and Rodney just showed up unexpectedly at her door, which was very strange because he had to have hitchhiked more than 3,000 miles from North Carolina. Whoa. Yeah. Which, you know, was strange in and of itself. Yeah. But even more uncharacteristic was the fact that he just up and left the military base with no permission. So he was technically AWOL.
Morbid
Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
Yeah. So Anna Maria was able to convince her son to turn himself in at the nearest recruitment station. And there he was evaluated by an army psychiatrist who at that point determined that Rodney was actually in acute psychological distress and had him admitted to the nearest hospital for psychiatric treatment.
Morbid
Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
But this seemed to have come out of nowhere.
Morbid
Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
Initially, he was treated just at a regular hospital in San Francisco, but he was soon transferred to a military facility just outside of Irvine, California. And he was admitted for more long-term inpatient treatment at that point. Okay. Now, the triggering event for all of this, like essentially his breakdown is remains unclear.
Morbid
Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
But even at that time, there were allegations of sexual misconduct on his part.
Morbid
Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
So I don't know if he did something and I don't know that he necessarily would have regretted it. Yeah. Maybe it was just overwhelming to have done something awful for the first time. Who knows? But after months of treatment, it became clear that he would no longer be able to keep up with his responsibilities in the military. So in February of 1964, he was given a medical discharge.
Morbid
Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
And at that point, a diagnosis of antisocial personality disorder listed as chronic slash severe. Wow. So this is like well documented. Super well documented. The crazy thing about this case is that there are so many things that are well documented, but he just flies under the radar. And ends up on the dating game.
Morbid
Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
Ends up on the dating game, is able to get off of things on like a weird technicality. Just very strange. Yeah, it's very odd. After being released from the hospital, though, he returned to his mother's house in Los Angeles, and he just started taking courses at California State University like nothing ever happened. Okay, pal.
Morbid
Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
Given his past success in school and his IQ, which was reported to be around 140, which is actually right about where the genius category starts. So he was exceedingly intelligent.
Morbid
Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
No, not at all. He had no trouble with his coursework. And after that, he transferred to UCLA, where he ended up graduating with a bachelor's degree in 1968. Wow. Now free of academic obligations, he embarked on the next phase of his life, where he had a lot more free time. I think that's where things went really wrong. That's not great.
Morbid
Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
In between being released from the hospital and getting his degree, though, Rodney did attack one of his first documented victims, Morgan Rowan. Fortunately, she was able to escape him not once, but twice.
Morbid
Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
Yes. In 1965, she was hanging out in the parking lot of a teen nightclub with some friends, and that's when she first saw Rodney. Nothing seemed off about him in that moment. In fact, she actually thought he was pretty attractive, thought he was charismatic. So, sorry, how old was he around this time? I think he's like early 20s, probably 22 at this point.
Morbid
Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
Just kidding, I'm very worried. So worried you should be. Yeah. Okay.
Morbid
Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
everything very quickly turned once rodney got morgan away from this group he immediately got very rough with her he hit her head against the wall immediately knocking her unconscious luckily before anything could escalate any further she did come to and was able to scream which then alerted the owner of the nightclub and his wife who came running out to help her but in the shuffle of all that he was able to run away like get out of dodge before anybody even saw him what a piece of shit yeah
Morbid
Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
So fucking crazy. Morgan runs into Rodney again three years later in the summer of 1968. I hate this. This was during her going away party. She and her family were actually going to be moving from California to New York. So her friends decided to take her out for one last celebration all together on the Sunset Strip.
Morbid
Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
There was a big group of people, and while they were out, Rodney happened to join the group by chance because he's living around that area. And Morgan said she immediately felt creeped out. She was very nervous.
Morbid
Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
As she and her friend sat in a car waiting to head wherever they were going next, Rodney ended up slipping in behind the wheel and was like, oh, I'll give you guys a ride to wherever you're going next. Nope. I don't know if it was like a situation where maybe somebody was drinking, so he drove that car. He was being the designated. Mm-hmm.
Morbid
Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
But he hopped behind the wheel and he was like, oh, why don't we all head to my house? Like, I've got some weed. We can all smoke together. And of course, nobody else knows what happened. So they're like, yeah, sure. Sounds good.
Morbid
Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
It's the time period. It's like, these are like kind of like hippie people, you know? Everybody's laid back. Everybody's laid back. Exactly. It was California, dude.
Morbid
Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
So once there with everybody smoking and kind of distracted, he took the opportunity to get Morgan alone and ended up bringing her into his bedroom. It sounds like forcibly. And I'm just going to kind of do an overview of this just because the details of a lot of this is very intense, like in most of these cases. So I'm just kind of going to give like an overview.
Morbid
Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
He did physically and sexually assault her and actually pulled a knife on her during the attack. Her friends at a certain point probably heard something and also realized that she was gone for too long. So they started pounding on Rodney's closed and locked door to try to help her.
Morbid
Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
But it actually took one of her friends breaking Rodney's bedroom window and entering that way for Morgan to escape a second time.
Morbid
Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
Now, she didn't end up reporting this attack because her family was leaving for New York the next day. She was overall just too scared. And, like, we were saying these are, like, kind of, like, hippie people.
Morbid
Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
time i mean they would do that now but back then even more so they'd be like well you went to the house and you were smoking weed and you were like you know i mean it would all be hurtful it would be very much you put yourself in this situation what do you want us to do she didn't and even like you should never that should never be the case no don't but sadly she she was terrified after this she said she slept in bed with her parents after this once they moved to new york
Morbid
Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
And then she later learned, you know, a lot of different crimes that he committed and carried a lot of guilt for not reporting him. Yeah. Which it's like, girl, that is not on you. No. He is the monster. No. Now, this next attack is on a young girl who's eight years old. Oh, God. It's brutal, and I'm just going to give you an overview of it. Thank you.
Morbid
Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
So just three weeks later, a little past 8 a.m. on the morning of September 25th, 1968, eight-year-old Tali Shapiro left her family's temporary home at the Chateau Marmont and just started making her way to school.
Morbid
Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
Eight years old, like a tiny babe. Unbeknownst to her parents, since they moved to the hotel a few months earlier, Tali had been getting up early and actually walking to her elementary school instead of taking the bus like she was supposed to. It was probably just a fun adventure for her. She obviously didn't know any better. In a different time. In a very different time.
Morbid
Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
You sign up for something, you forget about it after the trial period ends, and then you're charged month after month after month after month. My God, the subscriptions are there, but you're not using them. In fact, I just learned that 85% of people have at least one paid subscription going unused each month. I probably had about 472.
Morbid
Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
But thanks to Rocket Money, now I can see all my subscriptions in one place and cancel the ones that I'm not using anymore. And now I'm saving more money. Rocket Money is a personal finance app that helps you find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and helps lower your bills so that you can grow with your savings.
Morbid
Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
I mean, you have kids. That's just like life with children. That's just every day. I, last night, had a terrifying moment that like nothing became of it, but it's pretty underwhelming. But I'm trying to, let me talk about it. I'm trying to sleep with the TV off because all my life. Because science. My entire life I have slept with the TV on. And it's like not great for you.
Morbid
Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
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Morbid
Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
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Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
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Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
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Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
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Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
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Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
As she walked to school that morning, though, a car pulled up beside her and she heard the driver say, come on in, I'll give you a ride to school.
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Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
But her parents had advised her many, many times that she was not supposed to talk to strangers. They instilled that in her. So she declined the offer and was like, I'm not supposed to talk to you. Like, leave me alone. But Rodney, because it's Rodney, told her, I'm not a stranger. I know your parents. Oh, my God. Fuck this guy. Yeah.
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Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
Obviously, he did not know Tali's parents, but he had seen her and her parents at the Chateau Marmont because he had also been living there recently.
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Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
To convince her even more to come with him, he was like, you know what? I actually have a beautiful photo to show you. Like, it won't take any time at all.
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Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
In 1968, Los Angeles and California in general had yet to undergo the very dark transformation brought about by the Manson family murders.
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Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
So while she knew she wasn't supposed to talk to strangers, Tali Shapiro didn't really get why she wasn't supposed to. The man in the car seemed nice enough and he knew her parents and even lived in the same hotel as they did. Plus, he said he had a beautiful picture to show her. And she's eight years old. Yeah, like she's a baby. She's a literal baby. I mean, that's a baby.
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Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
Yeah, so she didn't see anything wrong with getting in his car and going back to his apartment with him and then getting on her way to school. She was already early, remember, because she woke up early to walk.
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Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
As he was sitting at a red light across the street, hero of the fucking century Good Samaritan, Donald Haynes, watched the curious exchange between this man in the car and the little girl on the sidewalk. And even though he couldn't hear what was being said, he didn't know what the relationship was between them.
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Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
something about this this whole scene just made him very uncomfortable he said it was something about the way the girl tried to keep walking and the way the car seemed to follow along slowly trying to keep her attention oh that makes me upset it caught his eye and he was just like i don't know something's real off about this but his focus was broken when the light turned green and the car behind him honked which of course he has to go forward
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Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
And I do notice a better sleep with it off. So yeah, I've been trying to do that. But before I went to sleep, not last night, even the other night, I saw this TikTok from the Appalachian Mountains. And it's, I don't know, like who knows what's real and what's not anymore.
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Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
But as he started to drive away, he watched as the little girl got into the car. And later he would describe feeling in that moment as a kind of sixth sense or he said going off one's rocker.
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Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
whatever the case this feeling prompted him to turn his car around and look for the man in that car to see where he was going this is an amazing man like truly good samaritan of the century we need more people like him it's the it's like what we were saying last episode yes see something say something he saw something he did something yeah
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Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
So it took him a few minutes, but he soon spotted the vehicle again and actually started following Alcala's car a few paces behind and trailed him all the way back to the parking lot at Chateau Marmont. From his vehicle, he watched as Alcala and Tali got out of the car and started walking towards one of the apartments with the little girl following just a few steps behind.
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Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
So that's why she's like, there's nothing wrong with this. He knows my parents. He's a neighbor. And obviously the fact that they both lived in the same place added to the fact that she was or added to the, you know, story of I know your parents. Yeah, of course. So not wanting to wait any longer and fully aware that he could be very wrong about what he thought was happening.
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Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
Haynes was like, I don't care. He drove to a nearby payphone and called the police. What a badass. Truly. He told the dispatcher, you might think I'm a little screwy, but I just witnessed something that doesn't look right. I think a man just lured a little girl into his car, and now he and the girl went into his apartment together. And they sent a cruiser. Good.
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Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
Which is actually pretty bonkers for that time period because nobody believed anybody back then, but thank goodness. That's actually shocking. It is. So minutes later, a police cruiser pulled up alongside the payphone and Haynes pointed out the apartment that the man had walked into.
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Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
And the officer, Chris Camacho, I believe it is, thanked Haynes, walked over to the apartment door and knocked on the door hard and fast. Again, I'm not going to go into all the details here. They're available elsewhere if you want them. But when the officer was able to make his way in, it was a horrible scene. He ultimately found Tali laying in a large pool of blood coming from her head.
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Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
It was clear that she had been sexually assaulted and there was a metal bar across her throat that was effectively suffocating her.
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Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
Oh, I can't even. Like my. So Officer Camacho grabbed a towel from the kitchen counter so as not to disturb any of the evidence and carefully lifted the bar off of her throat and then checked for a pulse. She was pale. She was badly injured. But Tali was still alive. Holy shit.
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Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
In the meantime, the occupant, asshole, piece of shit, garbage human, motherfucker of the apartment had slipped out of the bedroom window, and Camacho didn't want to leave Tali alone, so he ended up just staying in the apartment and waiting for the ambulance, while officers and detectives then spread across the entire neighborhood looking for this creep.
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Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
Tali remained in a coma for over a month at a nearby hospital. But after months of rehabilitation, she was able to return to school and actually lived a pretty normal life. I am so glad to hear that. Yeah. When she recovered from all of her physical injuries, the Shapiro family actually moved to Puerto Vallarta, Mexico, hoping that a new environment would help her healing process.
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Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
Yeah. Have you ever seen, you guys out there, because I already talked to Elena about this. And I confirmed I have. Have you ever seen those videos where people are like, oh my God, just sitting in my bedroom and I see these creatures in my backyard staring at me? And it's like these fucking terrifying...
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Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
And the last thing she remembered was entering the apartment. But she said everything that happened after that was and always would be a blank. Oh. She doesn't remember any of it.
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Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
When we say he's a monster, he's worse. Oh, he's... He's worse than that. I have no words. And the fact that she, I mean, she's one of his, what we believe to be one of his first victims, but it's like... That's where you start your criminal activities. What a disgusting piece of shit. Like a pig. He's awful. I can't. I can't even linger on it too long.
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Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
Years later, though, Morgan and Tally connected over their shared experiences through letters. Oh, wow. And they actually even appeared on the show I Survived a Serial Killer. Oh, shit. I think in either 2021 or 2022. Oh, wow. Yeah. And Morgan said she like felt this like protectiveness over Tali and that's what connected them.
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Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
And she even said like she was sorry to Tali that she didn't report what happened to her. She was like, if I had done that, maybe it wouldn't have happened to you. But Tali was like, no, it's not you. It's him that did this. Yeah. They became friends.
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Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
I know. I'm so glad something good came out of that. I know. I wanted to tell you guys that part. Because I'm like, huh. Because, again, it's going to get rough. Yeah. So we've got to have those little glimmers there. Los Angeles police detective Steve Hodel, whose name you might recognize. I sure do. He's George Hodel, one of the prime suspects in the Black Dahlia's case's son.
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Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
He was assigned to this case and immediately set out learning everything he could about the suspect, Rodney Alcala. Because remember, they know his name. This is his apartment.
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Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
It was like 8.30 in the morning, too. And this girl's just, it's a weekday. This girl's on her way to school. On her way to school. Like, you would never expect something that horrible to happen right then. On her way to school. Mm-hmm.
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Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
Now, to his surprise, no one at Chateau Marmont seemed to know anything about Alcala personally, but they all described him as a quiet person and not a troublemaker.
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Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
Yeah, I know. That impression was echoed by his former classmates and professors at UCLA when Steve Hodel talked to them. One faculty member told Hodel that Alcala, quote, wouldn't harm a fly. Um, again, I wouldn't go that far. It's like, yeah, we have evidence that he did hurt much more than a fly. Yeah. An eight year old little girl.
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Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
Almost like Dementor, but like scarier looking things with like long black hair and like white nightgown sort of. Or like maybe just like white skin, like abyss skin sort of. Abyss skin. Abyss skin. Abyss skin. You know? I like that. Just floating and like staring at you. It's like a biscuit in a basket, but abyss skin. It's just like that. But like just staring at you like they're going to...
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Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
Agreed. More important than what his peers and neighbors thought of him, though, was the fact that none of them had seen him recently. In fact, Hodel could have searched all over California, and he never would have found Rodney Alcala, because by then, Rodney Alcala was thousands of miles away.
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Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
As Steve Hodel was making the rounds of the UCLA campus to learn about his suspect, Rodney Alcala, now calling himself John Berger, walked into the admissions office at New York University, and applied for a spot in the undergraduate film program at the School of Fine Arts.
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Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
You know what I think I'll do? I think I'll take a film class after, you know, terrorizing people in California and a small child. That sounds good. Yeah. Despite the highly competitive nature of the program, actually at the time, one of the instructors was the then acclaimed Roman Polanski. And the fact that the semester had already started, Alcala was admitted. Wow. Like he's a charmer. Wow.
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Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
Yeah. That just goes to show you. That right there. That's a competitive school. At the time, Roman Polanski was like a very. Prominent name. Prominent name. Exactly. And they're like, yeah, you can take this class. Wow. What? Damn. Once again, though, he impressed his professors, his peers who found him to be charismatic, like I just said, and highly motivated student.
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Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
Yeah, he's got that smarmy charm. Smarmy charm. Yep. Admissions chairperson R. Lee Mock said of Alcala, there was a quiet determinism that seemed to pervade everything he did. Outside of class, it appeared that he was similarly successful. He dated casually. Oh, can you fucking imagine? Can you imagine looking back? Absolutely not. Because you'd have no way of knowing. No, you'd never know.
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Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
That's the thing. Again, he's so charismatic.
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Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
I mean, again, going back to the beginning of the episode, he was the bachelor who won the dating game, won the date.
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Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
Yeah. I can't even imagine. I cannot even imagine. He made friends with fellow students. He was working on group projects with people. Wow. He even managed to make some money as a commercial photographer at that time. In every sense, he seemed an ordinary but particularly driven student and nobody suspected there was anything dark about him at all.
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Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
That is so scary. Yeah. On the evening of June 12th, 1971, on the other side of Manhattan, though, friends had been trying unsuccessfully to reach Cornelia Michelle Crilly all afternoon.
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Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
23-year-old, she went by Michael Crilly, as she was known to friends, had recently moved out of her parents' home in Bayside, Queens, and found her own apartment in an Upper East Side neighborhood that is sometimes called, and it's a quote, girl ghetto or mecca for maidens. Okay. It was very affordable at the time and young people were all moving over there. Okay.
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Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
pretty much kill you yeah so i got one of like a couple of those tiktoks and fucking drew it's our it's our cute little thing at night we lay in bed and we scroll tiktok but that was a horrible one to end on and then in the middle of the night i woke up and it was of course ready ready say it with me 3 a.m oh 3 a.m sorry yeah that's fine i was like pitch black You're like, we didn't prepare this.
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Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
It's kind of like if you're from Boston, like the Brookline Somerville area.
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Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
Crilly had spent that spring at the Transworld Airlines campus in Kansas training to be a flight attendant and she had just come back to New York. She was super excited to start her career, so excited to have an apartment of her own, was just setting out in the world.
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Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
According to her boyfriend, Leon Bornstein, Michael was funny, vivacious, had a jaunt in her step, and she had a real joie de vivre. She was also gorgeous, he said. The night before, he was trying to get a hold of Michael by the phone, and after several unsuccessful attempts, he finally went over to her apartment and tried the door, but it was locked.
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Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
So concerned for her safety, he called the police, and an officer was able to access the apartment through a window just off the fire escape. Life doesn't happen biweekly, so why should payday? The money you earn can be in your hands today with Earnin'. Earnin' is an app that gives you access to your pay as you work, up to $100 per day or up to $750 per pay period.
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Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
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Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
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Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
Curley was still in the process of moving in, so the apartment was pretty much empty. But in the bedroom, lying on the floor, they found Michael Curley's partially closed body, a stocking tied tightly around her neck. To the investigators, her apartment had all the hallmarks of a targeted murder. Nothing was missing. There was a small amount of cash and other valuables right in plain sight.
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Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
There was no sign of a break-in and no sign of a struggle elsewhere in the apartment. And it was obvious that she had been the victim of a violent sexual assault. This is very brutal, I just want to give you a heads up. Her shirt had been stuffed into her mouth, and there was saliva and bite marks on both of her breasts.
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Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
There were also signs of serious trauma to the rest of her body, and it was very clear that she had been raped. I can't imagine what she went through. No. One of the officers asked, and this is horrible, one of the officers asked Leon, her boyfriend, to come into the bedroom to identify her, which is fucking insane.
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Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
Like we were talking, the Blackout Ripper, I forget the time period, but it was way, it was during World War II, wasn't it? Yeah.
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Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
They did everything they could and made sure that nobody saw the scenes. These officers pulled him in and was like, can you tell us, is this her? Yeah.
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Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
Sorry. Again, I'm tired. I'm not on point. It was 3 a.m., of course. And it was pitch black. So you were on the right thing there. And then I just was convinced that there was going to be those ladies in my room. And I got so scared. And I woke Drew up and I was like, give me the clicker.
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Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
wrap around that sometimes especially back then the NYPD is very similar to the LAPD I was gonna say that you just sit here like question mark question that's a that's a state of dumb that I I didn't know people existed you have to assume that that was like oh yeah and you have to almost hope even that that was a rookie who was just real fucking dumb in that moment you I mean lose your fucking job at that point like you've just ruined someone for the rest of their lives yeah
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Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
Years later, he said it was a terrible scene. Michael's mouth was wide open because rigor mortis had set in and the killer had put something in her mouth to prevent her from screaming. I couldn't even tell it was Michael. She was so disfigured.
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Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
Beyond. So messed up. Wow. But detectives learned from Leon that earlier that day, Michael had been looking for somebody who could help her move two heavy beds and other furniture up to her apartment. And since some of the furniture appeared to have been moved in by the time she was killed, they theorized that whoever helped her move was probably the same person who killed her.
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Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
But Leon rejected that theory. He said Michael would have had to have recognized him or known him before she would have let anybody inside.
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Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
But the coroner took swabs of the saliva and a bite mark impression. But otherwise, the body was absent of any other physical evidence that could help identify their killer. Meanwhile, executives at TWA authorized a five thousand dollar reward for any information leading to an arrest. And a few days later, the Professional Airlines Stewardess Association upped that reward by a thousand dollars.
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Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
Wow. And despite the offer of the reward, though, the case quickly went cold. A few days later, Michael Curley's funeral was held in Queens and was attended by nearly 1,500 people. Holy shit. This girl was so beloved. Wow. After the murder of Michael Curley, Rodney Alcala needed to get out of the city, obviously.
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Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
So in early July, he applied for a position as an arts camp counselor at a children's summer camp in New Hampshire. Wow. No. No. What the fuck? Stop. What the fuck? But he was using an alias. He was using the name John Berger, so they wouldn't have known any better. But at the same time, investigators in California still had not given up the search for... Tally Shapiro's attacker.
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Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
i don't blame you on that one now i'm just i was on the treadmill this morning fucking terrified that they were behind me oh man there's like two empty rooms behind me which i don't love when i'm on my treadmill yeah i need to like move it so there's a wall behind me yeah and you don't want empty space i'm paranoid about appalachia
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Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
And by then, Alcala had actually been added to the FBI's list of most wanted fugitives. And here he is just on the East Coast. Yep. His face and description appearing on wanted posters in federal buildings pretty much everywhere in the U.S. Wow. Now, and this is crazy. The amount of times he just like... Just by chance, somebody sees something in these cases. There's it's wild.
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Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
In August, two girls from the camp, they walked a short distance to the post office just to mail some letters back home. It was meant to be a pretty quick trip, actually. But by the time they reached the post office, it started to rain heavily. So they were like, let's just wait inside until the rain lets up because we don't want to get soaked on the way back to camp.
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Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
So they just wandered around the post office. It was a pretty small building. They were looking at the governmental notices on the wall and eventually their eyes settled on the bulletin board of all the wanted criminals. And one of the faces looked very familiar. According to the notice, the man's name was Rodney Alcala and he was wanted for assault of a child in California.
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Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
But he looked remarkably similar to their very popular camp counselor, John. Oh my God. Yeah. Can you imagine? No.
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Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
i cannot to be a parent and to later learn that rodney alcala was your child's camp counselor i'd never let my kids do anything again never i feel like you're actually we actually live in the house and we never leave yeah we actually have um like a bomb shelter a bunker we're gonna live there sound good never leaving bye so the girls dismissed the notice as merely a coincidence after all john burger said he'd come from new york where he'd lived his entire life and he definitely didn't seem like somebody who would hurt a child he was good to them and that at that camp
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Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
but still the resemblance was uncanny so when they got back to camp they did mention the poster to the camp director good who was like you know what i'm gonna go check that out just to be sure because i actually give a shit about the safety of children i love that at the post office the camp director stared at the wanted poster for several minutes just sat there in awe reading and rereading the information on rodney alcala
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Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
And I think it's because a lot of the pictures, obviously, you see are after his arrest, so he just let his facade go completely. But you can also see how somebody would be like, oh, that guy's harmless. You see him on the dating game. Have you ever seen the clips? I actually, I can't even watch them because it freaks me out. The clips are horrifying. I've seen a couple, but it freaks me out.
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Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
So the director asked the woman at the counter in the post office if he could use the phone after standing there for several minutes, just going back and forth in his head. But he was like, I got to report this just in case.
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Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
So he dialed the number on the poster and he was immediately connected with the regional branch of the FBI, which is. Can you imagine just a camp counselor from fucking New Hampshire? And he's just like, oh, hey. He's like, hi, I'm terrified. Yeah, hi. The agent on the phone took all the details that the director could remember about John off the top of his head.
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Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
You know, John Berger, the camp counselor.
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Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
And then instructed the man to return to the camp and act as normal as he could. He was like, you just have to go back to the camp and act like nothing is wrong. But he emphasized, do not leave him alone with any of the young female campers or any female campers at all. Oh, shit. Act as normal as you can, but you got to make sure he's not alone with anybody. That would be hearing that.
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Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
How do you act normal after knowing that he is possibly wanted in California for the assault of a child?
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Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
That's the thing, exactly. Now, he didn't have to keep up the facade too long because the next morning, a group of FBI agents arrived at the camp and took Alcala into custody without incident.
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Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
After comparing his fingerprints with those on file, they knew that they had the right person, and they called Steve Hodel in Los Angeles, who immediately booked a flight to Boston so he could personally bring Alcala back to California to stand trial. He was like, fuck this guy. Fuck you, I'm bringing you in.
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Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
Hodel arrived at the local police precinct early on the morning of August 12th, where he was introduced to Alcala. And as they waited for the extradition paperwork to be completed, Hodel asked Alcala, why? Why did you attack a little child? And in response, Alcala looked expressionless at Hodel and said, I don't want to talk about Rod Alcala and what he did. Oh, please. That's it. Please.
Morbid
Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
And that is where we're going to end for part one. Oh, God. Yeah. We're going to talk about, you know, his arrest, a conviction, and his eventual release in part two. So get ready for that. And then so there's going to be a little break between part one and part two because we have, you know, Listener Tales, which you'll need as a little palette cleanser. You are going to need that. Yeah.
Morbid
Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
So part two will be coming out next Monday. We'll do a little Listener Tales video in between then. So definitely tune in for that. It will be kind of like a pre-palette cleanser, I guess. Yeah. Also kind of a post-palette.
Morbid
Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
If you like Morbid, you can listen early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at wondery.com.
Morbid
Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
There's a lot in life that feels like it should be guaranteed, but it just isn't. Things like your friends being on their way when they text you LMW or getting out the same number of socks from the dryer that you put in. AT&T is introducing a new guarantee, the AT&T guarantee, because there's a lot in life that's not guaranteed.
Morbid
Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
He actually just shakes his head because he doesn't even talk anymore. Yeah, that's it. After his ordeal.
Morbid
Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
I respect it so deeply. I respect it so hard. But you know where you're not going to find me? Appalachia. No, baby. No, baby. I'm even like freaked out now just that we talked about it and it's the middle of the day. Yeah. Anyway, I don't think I'll be sleeping with the TV off anymore.
Morbid
Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
Oh, my God. Also, just another thing about me. Sorry, I'm really self-serving lately. Taking it back. You know, whatever. You know that? Did you talk about that alarm clock on here that we were talking about together? Or was that a private conversation? I know we had a private conversation about it. We have so many conversations and I'm like, which one was private and which one was on air?
Morbid
Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
It's not private. It's just she found this really cool alarm clock.
Morbid
Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
The AT&T guarantee means connectivity you can depend on, deals you want, and service you deserve, or they'll make it right. Visit att.com slash guarantee to learn more. AT&T connecting changes everything. Terms and conditions apply. Visit att.com slash guarantee for details. Have you ever grown tired of searching for your favorite movies and TV shows across numerous streaming accounts?
Morbid
Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
I wouldn't know. Why wouldn't you know? I got one. Yeah. And I set it all up last night. But my dumb ass didn't realize that I set it up in military time.
Morbid
Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
I need you to tell me how to change it. Because I set it. I set it. I set it. I don't know why I'm just saying that.
Morbid
Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
leave it in i said it and i made it you know 9 p.m because that's the time it was yeah and then when i woke up at 3 a.m and was like oh god there's an appalachian woman in my room it was like 15 o'clock and i was like what i was so confused you're like wait there's an eldritch horror in my world and then you're like and it's 15 o'clock what i was like i'm in an alternate universe shit but
Morbid
Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
At 3 a.m., I wasn't going to. You know, I came to after. I was like, alternate universe, fuck. I was like, oh, military time. Don't know how to do that. And I also was like, I'm not fixing this problem at 3 a.m. So I just set my regular stupid alarm on my phone and woke up to like, da-da-da-da-da-da-da.
Morbid
Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
Oh, you know who's told me that 740 bajillion times? Drew. Yeah. And every time I come across military time, I don't remember that.
Morbid
Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
Yeah. Here's the thing though. I don't want to do math.
Morbid
Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
Yeah, it's a little bit complicated. But, you know, I'm looking forward to waking up with the sun. It's worth it.
Morbid
Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
I'm excited. We'll talk, you know, we'll have a private conversation off air.
Morbid
Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
Low key, we can get into it now. I was putting it off a little bit because we are covering, if you have clicked on this episode, you know that we're covering Rodney Alcala, the dating game killer. I had a very surface knowledge of this case. And when I tell you so surface, it was barely even, I don't know.
Morbid
Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
Yeah. So I saw, you know, that movie and I was like, oh, cool. Like, that's an interesting case. I'd like to cover that. So I told Dave and Dave was like, are you sure? And I said, yeah. We should have known then. We should have known then. It's obviously a case that should be told because these people deserve to have their story told.
Morbid
Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
it is very gruesome uh a lot of these women were unfortunately raped so we're gonna that that's something we're gonna be talking about um so i am gonna break this up i think into three parts yeah um just you know it makes it a little easier to digest and there's a lot of parts and there's a lot to cover yeah so this is gonna be part one part one i think is definitely gonna be a little bit shorter
Morbid
Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
Then parts two and three, but it kind of sets the sets the scene. So let's start even somewhat kind of in the middle, I would say. And a lot of people will know this as the dating game killer case. So that's what we're starting. Yeah. When Cheryl Bradshaw appeared on the popular game show The Dating Game in 1978, she was very charmed by bachelor number one Rodney Alcala.
Morbid
Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
And by the end of the episode, she had actually chosen to pick him as her date. But just minutes after the episode finished taping, she actually met him in person backstage. And she was immediately uncomfortable and actually quickly contacted producers of the show to cancel the date immediately. This is the craziest part to me. It was just a gut instinct she had.
Morbid
Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
It's so frustrating to have all your favorite shows live across multiple logins and apps. I'm like trying to watch one show. I'm like, wait, what's my login here? On Prime Video, though, you can add over 100 subscriptions like Max, Apple TV Plus, and Paramount Plus all in one app. Hey weirdos, I'm Alayna. And I'm Ash. And this is Morbid.
Morbid
Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
And it just, I don't know what happened during that conversation, but something struck her and she went with her gut, which you have to applaud. Thank goodness she did. She called the contestant coordinator, Ellen Metzger, I believe is how you say her name. The day after filming. And she said, Ellen, I can't go out with this guy. There's weird vibes that are coming off of him. He's very strange.
Morbid
Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
I'm not comfortable. Is that going to be a problem? Luckily, Ellen was like, nope, is not going to be an issue at all.
Morbid
Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
She said, trust your gut, girl. That's fine. Now, what Cheryl Bradshaw didn't know at that time was that in canceling the date, she had narrowly avoided spending an evening in the company of one of America's most notorious serial killers. At the time of his appearance on The Dating Game in 1978, Rodney Alcala was already a convicted sexual predator.
Morbid
Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
which just goes to show you, you know, what work went into vetting people back then. Yeah, that's what's so horrifying. Yeah, he had already served time for sexual assault and also had avoided a charge of attempted murder on a small technicality and was able to be a contestant on this show. That's unbelievable. Luckily, times have changed.
Morbid
Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
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Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
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Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
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Morbid
Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
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Morbid
Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
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Morbid
Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
And she's always talking about how good she feels serving them meals that are actually good for them. And did I mention it all comes right to your door? So flexible, so easy, and everything stores right in the fridge and freezer. You pick the menu and change up what you order every time. The price is right. The quality is unmatched. Elena loves it. Her kids love it. The grandparents even love it.
Morbid
Episode 640: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 1)
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Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
Now, the young men on the rugby team started to chant, hoping that the words would distract the other passengers from this panicked moment. I'm not going to lie. I would fucking hate that. I would hate that so much. I'd cry. I'd just start crying. They were doing it thinking, just listen to us. Just listen to us. Don't pay attention to what's happening. They're like... That's sweet.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
And when you hear what they do, you're just like, damn. You guys were just... Thank goodness it was you guys who had to help each other. You know what I mean? You were all there for each other. Now, most of the members of the rugby team and the others who joined in their chant could not see out the window. So they assumed turbulence was just, you know, this is bad turbulence.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
But the people who could see out of the window, they were like... Something's wrong here. Because that second bout of turbulence was caused by the air pocket, and it caused the plane to, again, drop out of the cloud cover that they had been above before.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
And so they could look out the window and see that they weren't seeing Chilean villages thousands of feet below them like they should have seen because they were descending. They saw the edges of the snow-covered Andes about 10 feet from the tip of the wing.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
oh no that's what i'm talking about they were not supposed to be there like this was not supposed to be happening they 10 feet from the tip of the wing they see the mountain dude
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
I think that would be it. It would be curtains for me right away. Like, that's it. I see that. 10 feet? It's gone. You would think you were in a nightmare. You would think you were dreaming. I literally can't fathom this. Like, my brain won't allow me to go into this place where they had to be. Like, I can't. That's called self-preservation. Yes.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
My brain is deep in self-preservation mode right now. She said, I will not. My imagination, boop, turned off. During this whole thing, my imagination went, I'm going to take a holiday. I'll see you after you're done. It erased the whiteboard. Yes, it went, bye. You don't think any further into this. Yeah.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
Now the passengers felt the plane lurch again as the co-pilot tried to make a rapid ascent, tried to lift back up so we could get the fuck out of this mountain valley, but it was too late. The engine struggled to accommodate the ascent.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
The right wing tip caught the edge of the mountain and it tore the right wing from the plane and sent it flying back over the fuselage where it struck the tail and ripped the tail from the plane. The wing hit the tail of the plane? Yep, and ripped it from the plane.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
As this happened, a flight attendant and a row of three young men from the team were torn, it was torn loose, the whole row, and they all got sucked out of the hole. Just gone. So three of the people on the team and one flight attendant were sucked right out of the hole immediately. Oh my God. Yeah. And so now the plane is flying with no tail and no wings. It's just a fuselage.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
So it just started hurtling towards the mountain, like, free-falling. Just, like, nose-diving towards the mountain.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
It crashed into a steep valley, and luckily there was deep, deep snowfall that cushioned the plane. Cushioned is probably a very, like, optimistic word for what happened here. Yeah, but I see what you mean. But... It would have been even worse if there was no snowfall here.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
It would later be estimated that that plane hit the mountain going approximately 230 miles per hour.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
And so many people did. Yeah. And also, they said because it was going approximately 230 miles an hour when it hit the fucking mountain, if it had hit the floor, the ground, it would have just obliterated the fuselage. Right. There would have been nothing left of anybody or anything. Anything. But because of the snow, it at least cushioned it enough that it didn't obliterate.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
Some vibe going on. I don't know what it is. But before the plane hit the snow, two more young men were ripped out of the side. But the rest of the passengers were all buckled into their seats. Oh, man. Once the fuselage hit the ground, the speed caused the plane to slide down the valley as it was like losing momentum.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
And the crash caused tons of the rows of seats in the plane to become unsecured from the floor. And as it's flying down the valley, skidding down the valley, the rows are shifting forward and they crushed many of the passengers between seats. Oh, my God.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
So several of the passengers who fucking survived the crash were killed because they were crushed by the twisted metal and plastic in the slide on the way down the mountains. And then a bunch more got way more injured in this as well. Of course, yeah. And finally the plane came to a stop.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
Now, Roberto Canessa, who was a medical student who'd booked the cheap flight for a short vacation in Chile.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
Yep. He was among one of the first people to wake up in the plane because they were all gone. Yeah, of course. Yeah. In its slide down the mountain, the fuselage had shifted and come to a stop on its side, so it tossed the bodies of living people and dead people throughout the interior of the fuselage. Oh, God.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
So Canessa quickly located his friend Daniel Maspons and helped to free him from his seat, and then they started making their way through the plane looking for survivors. And Roberto Canessa is a medical student, so he's trying to think of anything he can do to help anybody.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
But when some of the survivors made their way out of the plane for the first time, they found themselves in the scariest scenario you can possibly imagine. Complete isolation. They were surrounded by mountain walls on three sides. And then the one open side looked straight down into a valley.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
And they said it looked like it went on for miles. Like, just gone. There's no way out. Everywhere they looked, they said they saw ice, snow, and they couldn't tell whether it was... I mean, it was dozens and dozens of feet deep in places. Yeah. And because they hadn't planned on being in any cold temperatures. Yeah, they're going to Chile. They were going to Chile from Argentina. Like, what?
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
All of the passengers had dressed in warm weather clothing. Of course. So none of them were prepared for the literal sub-zero temperatures outside.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
Now, once outside, two of the rugby team members spotted their friend Carlos Valletta, and this is very sad, a few yards from the plane, and neither of them knew how Carlos had come to be so far outside of the plane. Yeah. But he seemed confused and was walking in the direction of that steep valley. Oh, God.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
And so they all called out to him, hoping that their voices would bring him back towards them. But it looked like he couldn't see them. He couldn't hear them. And he just walked deeper and deeper into the snow. And they were terrified that he was going to slip and fall into the valley. So two of them tried to walk out there or like crawl out there to get to him.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
But the snow was too deep and the incline was way too steep. And so they only made it about a dozen or so feet before turning back. And they all just watched helplessly as Carlos stumbled in the snow. And then he tried to stand, but he slipped a second time. And then he just tumbled into the valley below.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
Now, back inside the plane, the two medical students, Roberto Canessa and Gustavo Serbino, they did their best to try to help the injured people. But you don't even have anything. They're medical students, too. They are not doctors yet. They only know what they know. And then again, like you said, they don't have any medical supplies, really. Right.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
And also Zerbino was only in his first year of medical school and he was studying to be a psychologist.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
So he wasn't super familiar with emergency medicine. He had some knowledge. Yeah. But he was like, ugh. It's not like I'm trying. Yeah. Aside from the six passengers who'd been thrown from the plane when it started to break apart, only three others died on impact.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
Yeah. The rest, I know, the rest suffered a wide range of injuries, many of which were pretty serious. Several people were unconscious and many, mostly all, were in a state of physical and or psychological shock. Yeah. By the time one of the team members, Moncho Sabella, managed to reach the cockpit, there was really nothing they could do to help Ferratis or La Guerrera, the pilot and co-pilot.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
The nose of the plane had been absolutely crushed when the plane landed in the valley, and it crushed the instrument panels into the chests of the pilot and co-pilot.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
They were still strapped into their seats. And looking through the windshield, Sabella could tell that Ferratus was definitely already dead. But La Guerrera was still alive and was conscious.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
So they couldn't do anything. Like, literally, he was in bad shape. So there was really nothing they could do. So Sabella grabbed several handfuls of snow and packed them into his handkerchief just to try to, like, comfort La Guerrera as he died. Like, just kind of, like, easing his wounds and stuff and just, like, being there with him. Right. And he just sat with him until he died.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
But he had the entire instrument panel. Like, think about a cockpit. That whole thing was crushed against him.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
Yeah. Now, Nando Parado was another passenger on the plane. And the first thing he said he remembered was absolute blackness. He said, I'm dead. This is death. It's so black that this is death. And he said when he woke up, he had no idea how much time had passed between the crash and him waking up.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
And then he said he was so thirsty. Like all of a sudden he was just so thirsty. So he said, if I'm dead, I cannot crave water. So he was like, I'm alive. So like, okay, that's my like moment. So he started coming to and he said that's when he realized his head was throbbing and everything. Everybody was talking around him. It's just like a cacophony of voices.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
Yeah. And he said when he opened his eyes, he saw several of his friends' faces who were gathered around him. And that's when he saw that they were surrounded by the wreckage. He was like, what the fuck is going on? So he's like, okay, the plane crashed. And they explained it to him. They said several passengers didn't make it. And they said, unfortunately, including Nando's mother, Eugenia.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
And his best friend, Panchito Abal. And his sister, Susie, was very injured and was laying nearby on the floor of the cockpit.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
And Nando remembered crawling over to where she was laying on the floor and curling up beside her. And he said, I stayed with her. I melted snow with my mouth and gave her water because we didn't have anything. We didn't have cups. Oh, my God.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
I made a new kind of breakfast for the kids. I got up early. I made like a yummy little like breakfast sandwich in the oven. Yeah, tell them about it. It's like a it's like a yummy biscuity crescent roll with cheese and eggs. And then I also made them a yummy lunch. Yeah, pizza rolls. Which I always make them lunch, obviously, and breakfast. But I made like some different ones.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
He melted snow in his mouth to give to his dying sister.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
Like, I was just like, damn, Nando. And unfortunately, Susie would die from her injuries on the eighth day. Oh, my God. And Nando said that he had a lot. Like, later is when it really hit. Like, because he said what he said later was that he learned that at those moments, my brain didn't react to anything that was outside survival. I couldn't cry. I didn't feel sorrow. You're in shock.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
And he said they buried her alongside the others that the day after she died.
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Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
Now, the next day when Nando was able to stand and kind of walk, he went outside for the first time and was overwhelmed by what he saw. He said, I saw the magnitude of the place we were in. It's immense. It's huge. And I said, fuck, this is going to be horrible. How are we going to get out of here? They won't find us here.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
I mean, I don't know, like, how would I don't even know how they were found. And well, and it's worse because he was right. There was very little chance of anyone having found them on that ridge because when the plane failed to arrive in Santiago, the Chilean Air Search and Rescue Service was alerted and they started searching by the air.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
But the problem was the plane had come to rest at an elevation of roughly 12,000 feet. And it was tucked into a valley, which is not very visible from the air anyway. And also the fuselage was white. So it was just blending into the snow. I didn't even think of that.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
And then what's even worse is that the search and rescue team were searching an area they believed the plane had been to based on the flight plan. They never knew that they had gone off course. Because they had just kind of trusted each other there.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
And then all hell broke loose. Now, in the first few days after the crash, the survivors listened to updates on the plane's radio until after 10 days, they heard a report that the search was called off. Imagine hearing that. No. Like of all they've gone through and all they've been through up to this point, then you hear that they're not looking for you anymore.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
Because you would just think, I'm going to die here. And what's wild is they didn't lose hope here. That's remarkable. They somehow took this as like, okay, now our survival is in our hands. So we need to do it. Like what the fuck? I'm like, that is, I mean, you go one of two ways there. The strength that like, talk about the human spirit right there. Like damn. Team building.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
Like the fact that they're just like, okay, so they're not looking for us anymore. Now we got to do it. We're the only people who can get us out of here. Now, Ramon Sabella said, So knowing that the search was called off and knowing their families were probably devastated, they were like, now we got to get the fuck out of here.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
And of course, none of the survivors had any idea where they were or which direction that civilization even was.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
Exactly. Now the first week or so on the mountain was spent taking stock of their resources, stabilizing the injured, and reinforcing what very little shelter they had inside the plane. But those that were physically able to spent most of their time doing their best to cover the holes in the side of the plane to keep out the sub-zero wind. Oof.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
And then they also were piling and packing snow to create a barrier from the elements. And since it was supposed to be a short trip with a small number of people, there weren't many resources to even be had in that plane. Chile has a warm climate, like we were talking about, so no one had clothing for cold weather. And other than some candy and other small snacks, there was no food on board.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
And they couldn't find the luggage. The luggage was nowhere to be found. The environment also offered very little in that respect. They were not going to find food out here. It was freezing cold, super desolate. Other than some roots and some highly questionable berries, which they definitely all found out, there was very little to eat out there.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
What they did have, though, was snow in every fucking direction. So at least they thought they were like, OK, well, we're not going to dehydrate. Yeah. Like we always have water. We can always just eat snow and melt snow.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
That's part of my resolution is to come up with more creative lunches for their school lunches.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
I don't know how many days you can go.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
It's definitely food. It's food, right? Yeah. You can go longer without food than water, I think. You dehydrate wicked quick.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
damn that's crazy and just think of how weak you would feel oh yeah and you're just trying to survive literally survive in the snow thing like that was like a to them it was a blessing they were like we are surrounded by snow we will not dehydrate that is like one of the biggest problems that we would have had yes solved so at least we have that and they're all like it's again the way they're looking at the situation like these people had the best mindset you could possibly imagine
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
But it also became kind of a curse because the snow kept them hydrated, but the temperature of the snow made it difficult to consume at all because it would burn their mouths and throats. It was so cold.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
Now, the days were obviously exhausting. They were challenging. But the nights... I can't imagine. The nights were brutal.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
Yeah. Those... Anybody who was, you know, feeling strong... physically or honestly, like mentally, did their best to keep up the spirits of those that were injured. And those who'd lost hope, you know, they were trying to make them believe that they could get out of here. They would tell them stories to pass the time. They would just sing to distract them, like anything.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
And with nothing but the cloth from the seats to protect them from the cold, all of the survivors huddled close to one another during the night, just like in one big pile in the fuselage. Oh, God. Like, relying on body heat to keep them from freezing.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
And during the night, their clothing and hair would freeze, like, every single night, and they would take turns punching each other's arms and legs to improve circulation. Oh, my God. And when they became too exhausted... To punch. ...to actually hit each other, they would then get as close as possible to each other and just try to breathe, like, hot breath on each other.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
Like... what like just to take care of your fellow human like that though yeah like and just not give up like wow and within a few weeks everything that he had even remotely passed as food had been gone yeah and the remaining survivors were looking at starvation they were like we might die of starvation we've survived this far and we're gonna starve to death out here
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
And in the days immediately following the crash, they stuck to very strict rations for everyone. And they said From Alive, which is a very interesting book. I highly recommend it. We'll definitely link in the show notes. They said a scrap of chocolate, a cap full of wine, and a teaspoon of jam or tinned fish for the day.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
And when that ran out, some tried to eat the leather straps from any of the seats or luggage that they like pieces that they could find, but they couldn't eat it.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
Now, it was Nando Parado who first suggested that they consider eating the meat from the bodies of the dead. He later said, I didn't have any doubts. I had arrived at the conclusion of my thoughts very clearly. No doubt. This is the only way out. I mean, what else are you going to eat? I get it, man. And if you're determined to survive at that point?
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
There is no part of my dumb ass that's going to sit here and say to you that after weeks, after a fucking plane crash that I survived on the fucking Andes, that I'm not going to think about eating a dead body. I'm not going to sit here with any kind of fucking...
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
And what else do you do? What do you do at this point? Like, I get it. I get what they did. It's totally fine if, you know, if you don't, but yeah. I just can't presume to say that I would... Oh, I would certainly not do that. Like, I don't fucking know. I hope I never have to know that. None of us know because we weren't there and we haven't been. Sounds like an awful experience. Yeah.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
The worst kind of experience I can possibly conjure and can't even in my brain.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
Literally. Like... You have to eat. You're going to lose your fucking mind otherwise. Exactly. And like you said, they had not begun to decompose because they were laying out. And other than, you know, there being quite a strong social taboo around cannibalism, there was really no other argument that everybody had.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
I feel very chalant with my resolutions.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
Like everybody was like, that's really, it's all really just like ethical kind of thing, like moral stuff. Which would be hard, I'm sure, to get through. Of course, I can't even fathom this discussion. To find yourself in that situation. I can't even fathom this discussion, but I get why it got brought up. And again, not a lot, and this decision was not made lightly. No, of course.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
These people did not just go like, oh, shit, why don't we eat our friends? That's not what they did. It's everybody's family members and friends. They did not come to this as just like, whatever, we might as well. This is desperation. Yeah, and self-preservation. And Roberto Canessa led the discussion, and he very much argued his point from his position as a medical student.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
He said to them, it is meat. That's all it is. The souls have left their bodies are in heaven with God. All that is left here are the carcasses, which are no more human beings than the dead flesh of the cattle we eat at home.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
I mean, he's just coming from like a very clinical, logical point of view and being like, these are not your loved ones. Yeah. Your loved ones aren't in these shells anymore. Right. Now, once the suggestion was raised to the rest of the survivors, the group spent nearly an entire day discussing it amongst themselves before doing anything.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
And then finally, after several, several hours, all remaining survivors agreed that they had little other choice if they wanted to live. Because what else are they going to do?
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
It was, yeah. Yay. It's true. She's like 87 now. I am not 87. It's crazy. I am what I am. That's all that you are. That's all that I am. Bye-bye. Yeah, so we're excited. It's the year of exciting things. Yeah. Lots of things are going to evolve. Lots of things are going to get better.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
In the years after the rescue, again, like I said before, this aspect of the story dominated the narrative. And it overshadowed nearly every other part of their ordeal.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
Which, again, I know it's shocking. I'm shocked by it. I'm fascinated by it. Like, of course, that's the one part where you go, oh... But holy shit, there's so many other things that they did for each other and to survive this that is, like, also unbelievably, incredibly, like... Remarkable. Outside of my realm of comprehension. But... It was the key to their survival at this point.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
And it was, again, only a small part of the story that this story that has so many other things that definitely need to be known for sure. Prado later said everybody in that situation, you would have arrived at the same thought and it's easier than you think.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
Because he's probably like, when you're that hungry. That's the thing. I can't imagine.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
Think of that stomach ache you get when you are hungry. And it hurts, like it feels, you feel empty. So they all also made a pact with each other that should any of them die before being rescued, their bodies were to be used as food to help the others survive. Wow.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
So they all made a fucking pact with each other that if I don't survive this, you're going to survive it because you're going to use my meat. Wow. What a sentence. My brain like won't – I just can't fathom having that discussion. It's the ultimate selflessness. It is. And it's just like – and to have to have that discussion.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
The only thing that would hopefully comfort you in any sense of the word, if you were dying in that sense, is like, I'm going to keep my friends alive. Like, I'm going to give them a hope. And in a weird way, it's not even like, I'm. Yeah, it's like, I agree with what he said. This vessel that I'm walking around in.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
yeah will at least be used to hopefully get them out of here yeah like that's like weird i don't it's just that's wild it's some kind of logic you know and i agree like believe whatever you want but yeah when you're gone you're gone yeah i mean that's what i believe yeah it's just like there's there's something else there so it's like yeah it's and but again what a hard to fathom what a wildly difficult conversation to navigate yeah that they must have had
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
Yeah. It's here. It's here, baby. It's here.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
But, you know, they'd already gotten through the worst. They had. Now, after they'd come to an agreement, and it was, everybody came to the agreement, a small group of the young men left the fuselage and walked to the area where they had put the bodies of the dead. And they... That must have been... Oh, heavy. They said they were all wildly uncomfortable, obviously. Of course. Wildly upset.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
But they just knew what they had to do. But none of them walked out there being like, cool, we're going to go eat our friends. Like they were all horrifically traumatized by this. Yeah. But they reasoned that, you know, and this is a quote, Okay.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
It was decided that Canessa, because he was a medical student, was probably the most appropriate person to cut the bodies because they didn't want to mutilate the bodies of their friends either. Yeah. And so they used a piece of broken glass from the plane.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
And he cut pieces of frozen flesh into 20 strips and laid them out on the roof of the plane to dry in the sun. And then he went back inside and let them all know, it's up there. If you want to eat it, eat it. Okay. It's there. All right. Despite all of them being in the most profound state of hunger that you can possibly even conjure in your imagination, none of them made a move to get it.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
It's here. It's finally here. And we've been waiting for it because last year was shine.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
You would not want to be the first person to make that move. No, that's the thing. But Canessa himself... said he was going to try to set an example, try to make them all feel better about the whole thing because he knew they were all starving. He's like, you're starving. Yeah. And you're going to, and this is what we have to do. I'll be the one to start the whole thing.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
And he went out and he got a piece from the roof. And, you know, he was the one that just a few hours earlier was like convincingly arguing that it was no different from the meat of the cattle back at home that they were accustomed to eating. But it is because it's you. It is. But he found himself like pretty much paralyzed when it came to actually eating the meat.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
And he had to force himself to bring his hand up and like shove it into his mouth. Decades later, Ramon Sabella would recall this whole experience with the same way. He said, of course, the idea of eating human flesh was terrible, repugnant. It was hard to put in your mouth, but we got used to it.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
And it wasn't even, that's the thing. Like last year was not complete shit.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
So none of them are like, yeah, it was great. Like, thanks. Thanks a bunch, friends. Like, they're like, it was the fucking worst experience of my life. Yeah. And it's true. The food actually ended. It's like remarkably nourishing. This sustenance. So it has a lot of, you know, we're full of vitamins and nutrients. So it's like this was and it's meat. Yeah. It's got a lot to your protein.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
So for the first time since the crash, several of these young men started feeling like, OK, I'm getting my strength back. I'm feeling like I can get through this. And because they were feeling physically stronger, their resolve was getting more strong. Sure. So they were like, this is the gift that our friends have given us. Like, they wanted this. You know what I mean?
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
I reached number one on the New York. That's been the dream since the beginning, the dawn of time. I hit that. I am forever happy and grateful for that. That best year ever for that. But it's like other stuff. It was just a tough year.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
Like, that's how they had to look at it. They would have wanted this, yeah. Now... Having solved their biggest problem, starvation, they started discussing how they might get the fuck out of the Andes. After a couple of weeks in the mountains, they had actually kind of acclimated to their surroundings a little bit, and they started to learn things they should do, things they shouldn't do.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
Parado said, we started to acclimate. You start to learn. I started to learn how to walk in the snow properly. On day 12, a small group managed to climb several miles up the mountain, actually. Wow. Hoping that up there, they would be able to maybe spot some civilization in one direction or another. But...
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
Every time they thought they were reaching the top of the peak, they would find another higher peak just above them.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
And they couldn't see anything through it. But it was on this trek that when they reached an outcropping of rock finally that had broken through the snow, that they found one of the plane's wings. And it was twisted, scattered across the snow. And with it, they found five of their former traveling companions.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
Gaston Castamale, Alexis Howney, Guido Magri, Joaquin Ramirez, and Ramon Martinez.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
Yeah. They were preserved as well because of the freezing temperatures, but their faces were black, which suggested that they had been burned by the engines or the fuel when they were ripped out of the plane.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
Yeah. Now, although they had discovered more of the wreckage and the missing bodies of their friends, they didn't really come out of the mountains with anything else, unfortunately. They hadn't managed to gain any more insight into their location. They hadn't found anything useful in the wreckage that they had found. And most importantly, they were now exhausted. Physically.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
And they said if they thought they were going to be hiking out of these mountains to go get help, that short excursion proved that that was going to be a lot more difficult than they thought. Maybe impossible.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
Now, by October 29th, the survivors had fallen into kind of like a routine at this point. They were keeping a schedule. You have to. They were maintaining order. It was like a little village. It's like Survivor. And that day, October 29th, they had broken into smaller groups and spent the morning cleaning the fuselage, cutting and drying meat, melting snow.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
And those who were still too weak were, you know, resting in hammock beds that they'd created from materials. And for most of the day, it was unusually calm. But then later, the sky started getting darker and this like wicked cold wind started whipping through. And it was too cold for everyone to be outside, so they got into the fuselage all together.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
Yeah, it was tough. So that's the reason.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
And they spent the rest of the night just telling stories, trying to keep warm, chatting with each other about family, about what they're going to do when they get out of here. And then one by one, they drifted off to sleep. Now, Roy Harley was laying awake on the floor, squeezed between Javier Methel and Carlitos Pais, when he felt this, like, weird vibration run through the floor of the plane.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
And just seconds later, he heard what he described as the sound of metal falling to the ground. And he jumped up to see what was happening, and he had a T-shirt covering his face, like, to try to get away from the wind. But he'd only just stood up when he was hit by a wall of snow that buried him to his waist and nearly knocked him to the ground. Was it an avalanche?
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
You can never have a fully shit year or, you know what I mean? Yeah, it's not fully bad. No matter what, there's always blips of greatness in a year.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
When he pulled his shirt away from his face, he was horrified to see that the plane was just hit by a fucking avalanche, and the entire fuselage was filled with snow, densely packed snow. It had knocked down all of the walls that they had built up and it had buried everyone who had been laying on the floor.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
And all the shit that they have spent weeks and weeks building to keep themselves together, gone.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
Like, how do you go after the avalanche? I'm like, how? How did you get the will? Because that would have been, I don't know how mentally I would have been able to get myself out of that. No. So Roy is frantic. He starts digging down into the snow to get any of his friends and manages to uncover Carlito's face.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
But the snow was packed too densely and he wasn't able to free any more of his body, just his face.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
He knew there were others, so he left Carlitos, where he was, and started furiously digging around. And he kept seeing hands pop up, so he's digging around the hands. And he managed to first free Roberto Canessa, who immediately started digging to free others. And one by one, they dug each other out of the snow, which had begun to settle and was now forming a sheet of ice across the surface.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
Nando Parado had also been laying on the floor alongside several others and was completely buried when the avalanche hit. He later said, which I couldn't move. I was under rubble, but I could I could breathe. And he said he laid buried in the snow for 30 minutes and he would take shallow breaths to try to keep from suffocating. How do you not hyperventilate? I have no idea.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
I would absolutely, without a doubt, hyperventilate. And he said, after the 30 minutes, he said he just kind of accepted that he was going to die buried in snow. And then someone started scraping the ice and snow away from his face and hauled him out of the snow.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
And they just didn't give up on each other. No.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
Yes. Spoiler alert. Yes. And like after ripping each other, being buried in the snow, hit by an avalanche. By a motherfucking avalanche. Torn out of the snow. They all just immediately start digging for the other people. They're not like taking a second to be like, oh my God, I just got hit by an avalanche. They're all just running on crazy adrenaline. Outside the plane, there's a blizzard raging.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
Like, everybody manifest greatness for yourself because you can do it.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
So. by the way inside they're doing their best just to get everyone out of this fucking snow and in filling the plane with densely packed snow the avalanche also blocked every exit and they were now trapped in the fuselage no yep buried to their waists in freezing snow
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
I have no idea. I mean, some of them most certainly did. Yeah, of course. And they didn't know whether the weight of the snow on the top of the fuselage was enough to crush them. They had no idea how much snow was on top of them.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
Prado later said, we didn't know if we had enough air. We didn't know if we had 2 meters, 4 meters, or 50 meters of snow on top of us. Oh, my God. They had no idea. And equally bad was the realization that not everyone had made it through the avalanche. Yeah. Some had been completely buried by the compact snow and others had been crushed by the falling debris from the makeshift wall.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
Like, can you imagine? No. No. Of the 27 survivors who laid down to sleep that night, eight died in the avalanche. Wow. Those killed were Carlos Roque, Daniel Maspons, Juan Carlos Menendez, Liliana Methel, Gustavo Nikolic, Marcelo Perez, Enrique Platero, and Diego Storm were all killed in the avalanche. That's so sad. Now, a few hours later, a second avalanche struck. No. No. Yeah.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
But the only good thing was that they had already been buried by the first one, so it just kind of rolled over the already buried plane. Okay. Once it felt safe enough to move without triggering another avalanche, Nando used a cargo pole to punch a large hole through the roof of the plane, which allowed fresh air to enter through. Wow.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
But while it was keeping them from being suffocated by this, they were still buried. Yeah. And even if they could get out of the plane, the blizzard conditions outside were going to kill them.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
Like, what do you do? I have no idea. The group spent four days buried in that plane. Wow. just waiting for the blizzard to pass. Four days. Stop it. At night, they slept in just like a tangle with each other, again, punching each other's arms and legs to try to keep circulation up.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
On the fourth day, when they were finally able to emerge from the plane, they forced themselves into the cockpit and squeezed past the bodies of the pilot and co-pilot who were still there. And then they spent hours working in 15-minute shifts to dig out and exit through the broken windshield of the cockpit.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
Well, that's just nice. It is. That's not even like woo. That's just nice. Nice. It's the law of attraction. It's positivity, you know? Let's fucking go, girls. And honestly, we need more of it in this world right now. Right? Because shit's popping off. Uh-huh. But not in our life. And this will be way past the time now. But like New Orleans, we're thinking of, yeah. Yes.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
Yeah. They managed to drag some of the bodies out through the tunnel they'd created, but those that were buried too deeply in the dense snow were just left where they died. In the week that followed, they worked tirelessly to clear out some of the snow so they would at least have like some protection from the elements. But much of the interior was too densely packed with snow.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
They couldn't even move it. With what little resources they had now obliterated by an avalanche and their shelter, I mean, seriously compromised. There were now 19 survivors and they had to make a fucking decision at this point. They were like, what do we do? We can't stay here. No. If they were going to make it out of here alive, they were going to have to walk out.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
So in the earliest days after the crash, several of the survivors started talking about walking out of the mountains for help. Of course, that was always on everyone's mind.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
The problem, of course, was that they didn't have any equipment. They didn't have any training necessary to make that kind of trek. And they're on the side of a fucking mountain. And also they have no fucking idea where they are or what direction civilization is.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
So they would take short hikes out of the valley just to see, like we talked about before, but again, those would only emphasize how unprepared they were to take such a trek. So once the danger of the future avalanches and snowdrifts was here, they decided the only way out was for them to hike out.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
So three of the strongest members of the remaining survivors, Parado, Canessa, and Antonia Visinton, volunteered to make the trip. And they started immediately preparing. They weren't just going to go straight out. They were going to prepare for it. Now, this kind of journey would have been hard for the most experienced mountaineer to do.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
And even then, they would have been outfitted with, like, everything that you need. Specialized climbing and hiking equipment. Clothing. All the things you need. Food. Yeah. Water. And among all of this, they were also complete... These people are also completely unfamiliar with the terrain outside the valley. So they were at huge risk for falling into hidden valleys and random...
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
crevasses in the earth, slipping off an ice plane, becoming buried in a snowdrift. There's like any host of dangers out there. And also they would have to do a certain amount of climbing over icy and rocky terrain, all of which they would have to do without climbing shoes, ice axes, any safety equipment, ropes.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
But you know what? If this isn't motivation to get the fuck up and do some stuff you've been meaning to do. My damn. There you go. Yeah. Prado said, I knew that when I gave the first step to leave the fuselage, I was not coming back. This is a kamikaze expedition. I mean, yeah. So the three men spent weeks preparing for this, gathering whatever supplies they could find.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
They made sleeping bags from sewn together cushions and fabric. Wow. How did you, how'd they even sew anything together? I think it was like hand tied kind of shit. And they made a sled crafted out of suitcases that like pieces of suitcases that they had. Cause they, I think they didn't have like, maybe they had like one or two pieces of luggage, but they did not.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
They missed, they were missing quite a bit of luggage.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
They also spent the days consuming large amounts of fat and meat to try to like build up strength. They took short trips into the surrounding mountains, like trying to see how they could build up their strength. And on one of those trips, they found the wreckage of the tail, the plane's tail, and all of the fucking luggage.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
Well, that's good. They found the luggage. To them, this was like a fucking goldmine. The ultimate sign to keep going. They got dry clothes, chocolate candies, a ski kit with poles they could use for the fucking hike. Wow. Tell me they weren't meant to find that shit.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
And I know it seems like we're far delayed from when that happened probably because, again, I have no fucking clue when this episode comes out. But right now it's very fresh while we're recording it. I posted some stuff on my Instagram about like there's going to be some blood donations and stuff happening. I wish we could get this out sooner, you know.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
all the shit they needed not all the shit but like most of the shit they needed came to them and it's like you know there were times of deep despair of course and deep hopelessness here i can't the likes of which probably most of us can never even understand or fathom or conjure in our minds no but i think that like what was important here was that they didn't let it consume them yeah they just said we're getting out of here we're gonna figure out how to get out of here
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
Like for them to do these little trips to try to gain the strength and to prepare, they weren't just like, let's give it our best shot. They were like, oh, no, fuckers. We're getting the fuck out of here. We're going to make sure we are prepared and out of here.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
It's wild. They also, in the luggage, they found a bottle of rum. You need it at that point. Many cartons of cigarettes. Nice. Bottles of Coca-Cola. Oh, holy shit. A crisp Coke after two avalanches. Oh, my God. I can't imagine how good those Cokes tasted. Oh, my God. But also, you have to go so slow. Yeah, you can't just... Your body's not used to it. Yeah, oh, my God.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
They also found a crate of moldy sandwiches, which at that point, eat away. Let's go. That night, they camped at the site eating a pretty large meal. They had a feast. And finishing it off with a dessert, they called it, which was a paste made of sugar, toothpaste, and rum. Oh, God. That's so bleak. They're hungry. But this time, unfortunately, was not one just of hope and just of good things.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
There was more tragedy to come. Two weeks after the avalanche, one of the survivors, Arturo Noguera, had become sick and started getting weaker as the days passed. He became delirious and eventually fell into a coma and died on November 15th. Imagine, like, he got so far.
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Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
Noguera's death was followed a few days later by Rafael Ecaverin, who died from an infection in his leg.
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Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
A few weeks after Ekaverin passed, Numa Turkati died in his sleep from sepsis. So it was like really one after the other. And to get that barn to survive the crash, survive two avalanches, and then have that be the case, like... That's awful. Now, by the time that Turkati had passed, the group had been stranded in the Andes for 61 days. 61 days.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
But just know that no matter what, we're thinking of New Orleans right now. So with that being said, let's get into... That hair toss.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
And it was clear to the three volunteers that the longer they waited, the more likely it was that people were going to die.
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Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
So on the morning of December 12th, Parado, Canessa, and Visinton left the valley, headed to the west, where they believed they would find help. Before leaving, they dressed in several layers of clothing because, again, they had found those fucking luggage things. Yes. And even fashioned socks made of human skin.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
They did this because they felt like it would keep their feet from getting soaked with water, which would put them at risk for frostbite. Pretty smart. Very macabre. Rough. Very smart. Morbid. Within a few days of hiking, it became clear to the three on the trip that This was going to be a lot harder than they thought it would be. And they thought it was going to be pretty fucking hard.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
There were several sheer ice cliffs and rock walls to climb, all again with no equipment or experience. On the second night, Canessa and Prado suggested it might be better if Byzantine returned to the plane because they said it would give them more food rations and increase the likelihood of getting help. Okay. They were like, maybe we shouldn't have all three of us out here. So Byzantine agreed.
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Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
He was like, you know what? Yeah. So he began the trek back to the plane while they continued west.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
No. For nearly a week, Canessa and Parado hiked and climbed through the fucking Andes. At times, climbing nearly a thousand feet in one day.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
That is twice the recommended daily climb for an experienced hiker.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
They also were going through several bouts of altitude sickness, which is fucking awful.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
Now, on multiple occasions, they were deceived, too, by what looked like a short distance between one location and another, only to have it suddenly stretch out for miles and miles. Early in their trip, they spent days climbing thousands of feet up the mountain, too, to just look on the other side and find it completely impassable. So to have to go all the way back down.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
Now after about a week of walking, the pair began to notice the environment around them started changing a little.
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Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
The once frozen terrain started to soften. And then all of a sudden they started seeing signs of fucking life.
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Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
They saw an old campfire. That would be... Euphoric. Animal manure. Stop it. Eventually, they saw some cows. Dude, I would cry. I would cry on those cows. Finally, on December 20th, Canessa and Prado reached a river and began following it until they saw the smoke from a campfire across the river. Shut the fuck up. Then Canessa spotted two men by the fire, one standing, the other on a horse.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
Because whenever we do a recording, we both have this problem where we get so hot.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
Too weak to walk, He just yelled for Parado, who ran to the edge of the water, and immediately they were trying to catch the men's attention, urging them to come to the edge of the water, which the man did. Yeah. But the noise of the rushing river made it impossible for them to hear each other. Stop it.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
So the man across the way pulled out a piece of paper and wrote a message, and then he wrapped it around a rock and tossed it to the other side. Just the wherewithal of these people. I always say people are going to people. Here's another reason. People are people. People are people. In a good way. But in the good way. Yeah. People are peopling.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
Nando grabbed the rock and unwrapped the note and it read, there is a man coming later that I told him to go. Tell me what you want. And in response, Nando sat down and wrote this note. I come from a plane that fell in the mountains. I'm Uruguayan. We have been walking for 10 days. I have a friend up there who is injured. In the plane, there are still 14 injured people.
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Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
We have to get out of here quickly, and we don't know how. We don't have any food. We are weak. When are you come and fetch us? Please, we can't even walk. Where are we? Okay. Okay.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
Well, we figured we would start off this, you know, we didn't even plan this, but we're going to start the year off with a mostly survival story. Hell yeah. Some people pass away in this episode. Not great. Very tragic. This story is brutal. It's tragic. But it's also got this side of it that is like really inspiring, like really beautiful. These people came together and took care of each other.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
This is what we needed to hear for like in the beginning of the year.
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Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
We didn't need another hopeless story of people being fucking terrible to each other. No, we needed this. This is the energy to bring into 2025.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
I say, I know I've said that a lot. I can't. Fathoming is not something I can do during this episode. I've said wow. I've said remarkable. We're all using the same adjectives. And it was before he left to get help. He was like, here's some bread. Please eat. Nanda rushed back to Canessa and they shared their food and news that after 69 days in the mountain, they were going to be saved. Holy shit.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
Now, it turned out that the man on the other side of the river was a local farmer named Sergio Catalan. He lived high in the mountains, and after discovering Prado and Canessa by the river, he himself traveled 10 hours by mule to the nearest police station to get them help.
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Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
Like not knowing if he's going to come back. Because then it's like, I'm assuming, ten hours back. Well, and then a few hours after he left, they were discovered by another man on horseback who gave them more food and water. Then carefully he loaded them onto the back of his horse and brought them to his hut. Oh, my God. Where he shared some cheese and gave them a place to lay down and rest.
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Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
Right? Parado said Roberto was very weak. He gave everything that he had. Everybody gave everything that they had. Over the course of 10 days, the two men had traveled 37 miles. Oh, my God. Under some of the most intense and bad conditions that you can imagine.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
And in fact, years later, when they discussed the trip with mountaineering experts, they were told that they, quote, achieved what they did because of their ignorance. Had you known what you were going to face, you would have never left the airplane. You never knew what you were going to face, and that's why you made it.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
So they're literally like, had you known, no way you would have made that out. But because you went in there completely ignorant and just said, we're getting out, you did it. The next day, a helicopter arrived in the village, and Canessa and Parado were presented with maps and asked to point where the plane had crashed.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
But they indicated where the plane was and their rescuers were like, no, that's nearly 80 miles away in Argentina. Like, what are you talking about? It couldn't possibly be where it was. So Nando was like, do you want me to get in the fucking helicopter and go show you? Despite everything that he had been through in a fucking aircraft, he was like, I'll get in the helicopter. I did.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
Nando was like, I'll get in the helicopter so we can go get my friends because I need to get you to them. Wow. They're safe. He's getting in there to get the rest of them. He's like, I can't let you not get them. So I'm going to get in here. That's insane. Despite what I've been through in the fucking air.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
And he did. Damn. And what he said about it later when they finally got to the crash site, he said, three of my friends jumped over me like dogs, kissing me and shouting. It was a very surreal and emotional scene. It was their first spark of being alive again.
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Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
The helicopter couldn't accommodate everyone all at once, so they had to leave a few survivors at the site and come back for them after the first group, which, like... Must have been the scariest because you're just like, please come back for me.
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Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
Eventually, they did manage to rescue all 16 survivors who were taken to the hospital that were at the site, taken to the hospital in San Fernando, Chile, where they were treated for various injuries and severe malnutrition. But the news of the rescue came as an absolute shock to everyone, particularly the families of the survivors. Oh, you must have just thought your family member was dead.
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Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
They were grieving them. It's been two months. Yeah. Even more surprising was the fact that according to their doctors, their survivors were deemed to be, despite what they went through, in surprisingly good condition. Wow. Despite what they had been through, like, you know, relatively.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
We're talking about the crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571. Okay. You may know it as the case, the alive case. Yes. There's a movie about it. There's a book about it. Yes. I'm sure you know it for one particular aspect of it. But Dave and I are here... To broaden your horizons. To tell you more about it because... That is one very big aspect of it, obviously.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
But although they had lost a significant amount of weight. Now, at first, the group appears to, in the beginning, they look like they kind of like minimize their ordeal to the press. They did? Like the survivors? Yeah, they were all just like, you know what, it's fine. So Roberto Canessa told a reporter, Wow. Oh, but he was just like, you know, my friend was fine. Like, let's move on.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
Well, instead, none of them wanted to focus on like the tragedy of the whole thing. Instead, they wanted to focus on their survival instincts. Like we got out of there. Yeah. Like that's what matters here. Like none of them wanted like pity. None of them wanted any of that. They were like, we got together. We stayed together. We worked together and we stayed alive together.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
Well, and I think they were literally like, what you need to know is that we worked as a team, and because we cared about our fellow human, that's why we're here. Look where we are. And Canessa said, all who could do so worked. The others prayed, but we all kept our faith. Wow. And... Again, who knows why they chose to, like, minimize the extent of the trauma and injuries they sustained.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
But the most glaring, you know, thing that was left out of their story, obviously, was how they had managed to avoid starvation. The press noted that they had melted snow to avoid dehydration and, you know, managed to avoid starvation by rationing, you know, what food was left on the plane. And I understand why they wanted to leave this part out of the thing. Yeah. You know, like why?
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
That's not what should be focused on here. But within a few days, Chilean officials had leaked the real explanation for how the survivors had stayed alive. So unnecessary. Yeah. And the press, of course, sees the story.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
It's salacious. The report said police sources said that after the food aboard the plane ran out, the exhausted survivors ate one body every five days. And other sources told journalists the rescuers, quote, found six cut up human bodies at the crash site. Which is like, yeah, that's true. That is what happened.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
And of course, reporting on it would be priority because that's a very fascinating and horrifying part of it. Yeah. Because obviously cannibalism has been the subject of like horror and also fascination to the public for literal centuries. So like you understand why this is like a massive part of this. And obviously it's like one of the biggest taboos you can conjure. Of course.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
And again, they had good reason to keep that to themselves because of that. In Alive, which, again, is the book that you guys should definitely read by Piers Paul Reed, he said they thought they would be stoned in the streets. Like, they were scared. But fortunately, while understandable, that feeling didn't. They were wrong. That's not what they received.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
They still claim they had a significant amount of food on board the plane. One survivor said that they thought they could survive if they rationed for another few weeks. But the reality of their surviving on chocolate and other snacks for two months was just not reality. Not going to happen.
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Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
In the end, most people understood that under the circumstances, they had no other choice but to resort to eating meat. In his speeches about the experience, Ramon Sabella always asked the audience, would any of you not have done the same thing? And he has yet to have anyone raise their hand. Yeah, that would be such a fucking dick move. Imagine looking at that man and being like, nah, I wouldn't.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
You know somebody would, but... In the years that followed, the survivors' story became honestly like a beacon of hope.
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Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
And like the ability to triumph over the most extreme circumstances and challenges you can imagine. In 1974, Reid's book about the experience, Alive! The Stories of the Andes Survivors, was released. Much acclaimed. To this day, people know that book. And this is, it kind of like reignited the interest in learning more about this story and what they went through. Oh, yeah.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
Outside of just the cannibalism kind of thing. Right. Canessa said of the whole like fame that came with this story, he said, there's a difference in how you feel you are and how others see you. And he said he was surprised at how little judgment they had received for their actions.
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Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
And he was also kind of shocked by the attention they were getting for surviving the whole thing, which I was like, dude. Yeah. The fact that you don't know what you've done. Now in the decades since the crash, the survivors have all gone on to live very productive lives. None of them want to waste their good fortune. All of them looked at it as like, this is a gift and I need not waste it.
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Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
You know, the cannibalism is a big part of this. But when you hear the other shit that these people survived and the way that they like held on to each other and took care of each other and just immediately went into survival mode, they all like the mindset that everyone went into is like unbelievable. Because it's horrifying.
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Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
Nando Parada became a motivational speaker and has written a book and several articles about the whole thing. Canessa went on to finish medical school. Yes. Yep. And became a pediatric cardiologist. Wow.
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Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
He also has written and spoken extensively about the whole ordeal in the Andes. Many of the others have chosen to keep their lives a little more private. I totally get that. They're doing the damn thing, but they're like, yep, I did it. But they've all gone to find success in whatever they've done.
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Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
And every year, the remaining survivors get together on the anniversary of the crash, and they all gather in the salon that Roberto Canessa has built onto his home specifically for the purpose of this book.
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Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
Like, that feeling in that room must be insane.
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Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
Yeah, and kept me alive and, like, punched my leg to keep circulation until you were too exhausted. My God. And just the trauma that they all share from losing everybody. Oh my God, the trauma bond is beyond... But, like, just in the fact that Roberto Canessa has, like, one, gone on to become a pediatric cardiologist. When he was in medical school during that. Like, good for him. Yes.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
And then, like, built this specific little thing onto his home so that they can have their meetings every year. I love that. Like, shut the fuck up. That's beautiful. It is. It's so beautiful.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
Most tragic, but most inspiring and, like, uplifting in the end.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
It is such an... It is just an incredible story.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
Oh my god, that's the thing. Like, I'll be back. Like, it just is like... And, like, you look at the pictures. Oh, yeah. That they have from the crash site and everything. It's unbelievable. Crazy. Truly unbelievable. Wow. Yeah. Well.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
If that doesn't inspire you to, like, do whatever the fuck it is that you were thinking about doing or changing or fixing or getting better at or releasing from your life, do it.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
Yeah, but some people can't. No, I don't know that I could. Yeah, and these people did. It's really, really a fascinating case. So let's start back in 1971. The Old Christians Club, which was an amateur Uruguayan rugby team, they charted a small play into Chile to play in a championship game against the Chilean national team.
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Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
For most members of the Old Christians, the trip was honestly the first time they'd ever been on a plane and the first time they'd ever traveled far away from home.
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Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
This is not when they crashed. Oh, okay. They didn't end up winning the championship, but the trip was pretty exciting, pretty fun, pretty great. Everybody loved it. So when they returned home, they were like, we got to start planning another trip for the next year. Like, this was too much fun.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
So by the time the next year came around, the team found themselves, unfortunately, not in the best position like last year for going to the Nationals. They'd been a little overconfident here, causing them to lose the Uruguayan championship. And this is a quote to a team they considered inferior. Oh, no. So I think the cockiness got the best of them here.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
The loss made the team's officers questioned whether, honestly, they wanted to invest the money in a trip for what they were considering a losing team at this point. But eventually, they ended up being convinced that this was a good idea. It was going to be fun. It was going to be great. And in the fall of 1972, the members of the Old Christians Club began planning their trip to Santiago, Chile.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
Okay. Despite their enthusiasm, there were some problems right away. The cost of charting the small Fairchild FH-227D plane from the Uruguayan Air Force was approximately $1,600, which now is $12,000.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
Yeah. So in order to afford it, they were going to have to fill all 40 seats. Now, they only had 19 people on their team.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
So they were faced with the very real possibility of having to cancel this trip. And so the members of the team started reaching out to friends, family, anyone they thought might be interested in taking a trip to Chile.
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Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
By the time the day of the flight had arrived, they had assembled a group of 40 passengers, which were including family members of the team, several students interested in visiting Chile, and one woman who was traveling to attend her daughter's wedding.
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Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
Now, around 6 a.m. on October 12, 1972, the passengers started arriving at the Carrasco Airport to board the plane. Everyone was super, like, light. The mood was light, you know. Everyone's just excited. It's like this is a fun little trip. But they soon encountered another problem. One person from their group, Gilberto Regulis, had not arrived.
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Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
Although it was a private flight, and obviously they didn't have, like, the strictest schedule... They had been informed that the flight would need to leave as early as possible to avoid bad weather. So they were put behind by him being late. The flight was finally able to leave a little after 8 a.m., piloted by two very experienced pilots who are actually from the Uruguayan Air Force.
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Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
But because of the late start, the plane ran into the weather that made it impossible to pass through the Cordillera Range and into the Andes. So they had to land the plane in Mendoza, Argentina and wait till the following day because they didn't want to go through that weather. Yeah, smart. Especially going through a mountain range. Yeah, that could be wily.
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Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
Now, the pilots were not just concerned about the weather, though. There was this like super strict regulation against the Uruguayan Air Force where they couldn't spend more than 24 hours on Argentinian soil.
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Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
And if they did, they would get fined, like seriously fined, or they would get a more serious penalty. It's like an international incident at that point. Like it's not good. Yeah. Now, under those circumstances, the pilots told the passengers to, you know, come back to the airport by 1 p.m. We got to get out of here. But when they arrived, the pilots were nowhere to be seen.
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Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
Instead, several administrative delays caused them to be late. They ended up missing the window to leave and having to wait until the next morning. Oh, shit. This is the flight, by the way. The amount of times that this got derailed, when you look back on it, you're like, whoa. What was at play here? Yeah.
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Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
But the Uruguayans were under a tight time restriction to leave Argentina. So the pilot and co-pilot, Julio Cesar Ferratis and Dante Hector Laguerrara, decided that it was... Honestly, better to probably face the inclement weather than risk a literal international incident. Yeah, I can get that. I understand the thought process there. Because they're also very experienced pilots.
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Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
They're in the Air Force. They're probably thinking, okay, we can get through it. It's going to be turbulent, but we'll get through that. It's a short flight.
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Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
Yeah. And because, you know, they had to make the choice, the flight left Mendoza a little after 2 p.m. Okay. Within a few minutes, the plane had reached 18,000 feet and was cruising between 20 and 60 knots. And they were thinking they were going to reach Santiago in honestly a little under two hours. It was going to be super fast.
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Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
It was an older model plane, but it was equipped with an automatic direction finder, also known as an ADF, and a VHF omnidirectional range. Both of these things were critical for keeping the flight on course and staying in the proper airspace.
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Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
About an hour into the flight, the plane reached the Cordillera, and La Guerrera dropped into a new airline and switched frequencies to put them in contact with air traffic control in Santiago. Yeah. So as he did this, they entered a patch of dense cloud cover, and so they ascended so that they could get better visibility over it. At this point, everything's going fine. Flight is on schedule.
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Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
Now at 3.21 p.m., La Guerrera radioed Santiago to inform them that they were over the pass of Planchon and were about to fly over Carrico, which is a small town on the west side of the Andes. A few minutes later, La Guerrera radioed again to say the flight was making a slight right angle in order to course correct and keep on the right flight path.
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Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
Unable to track the flight, Santiago's air traffic control took the co-pilot at his word because once they go out of that flight, like, he can't track it.
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Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
And he was like, you know what? Basically, air traffic control is like, he's probably been accurately tracking the flight. So they authorized him to descend to 10,000 feet, and they began preparing for the descent.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
Now, the plane had descended 3,000 feet. And again, it was going to be descending 10,000 feet. Yeah. So it went down 3,000 feet when they shifted from one air current to another. And that caused the plane to jump and shake as it moved to one from that current.
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Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
Now, the reason I am okay with this is, one, we have different regulations. Yes. And two, this is a smaller plane. Yeah. And three, it's flying very close to a mountain range, and I have no plans to do that. La Guerrera turned on the seatbelt signs and directed the passengers to go back to their seats just to avoid any injuries during the turbulence.
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Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
And a minute or two later, the plane lurched and dropped several hundred feet because it hit an air pocket. Oh, okay. I think we've all kind of been in that scenario where it hits an air pocket and it just goes. Yep. I'm not. Horrifying. I can get in the vibe now that like turbulence won't make you fall out of the sky. Jello. It's just jello.
Morbid
Episode 638: The Crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571
Air pockets can go fuck themselves because that has happened to me. And I thought I was like, this is it. Yeah. Like it's just it's the worst feeling. That shit's scary. In the world to me. Yeah. Not fun. And this one, the several hundred feet drop, the passengers were all very alarmed. They were panicked a little bit.
Morbid
Episode 634: Michael and Suzan Carson: San Francisco Witch Killers
Oh, that makes me sad that she was doing well in Santa Barbara.
Morbid
Episode 634: Michael and Suzan Carson: San Francisco Witch Killers
I can't imagine being a mother and hearing your child say that to you. No. Like, I don't know how you recover.
Morbid
Episode 634: Michael and Suzan Carson: San Francisco Witch Killers
We'll get you back on your feet. And what a good mom.
Morbid
Episode 634: Michael and Suzan Carson: San Francisco Witch Killers
That's so chilling that they can't find me back here.
Morbid
Episode 634: Michael and Suzan Carson: San Francisco Witch Killers
Huh. It's weird to hear someone be like, she's the embodiment of evil. And then somebody's just like, I don't know, they're interesting.
Morbid
Episode 634: Michael and Suzan Carson: San Francisco Witch Killers
I don't know if it's tenets of Islam. Yeah. Honestly, it sounds to me like when people will take little bits of like Christianity and like all these other kind of like Catholicisms and, you know, all that kind of stuff and pull little pieces from it. And sometimes they pull the worst pieces from them and then twist them to be even worse. Yeah. And then make their own little like shit religion.
Morbid
Episode 634: Michael and Suzan Carson: San Francisco Witch Killers
Ball of shit religion. And it sounds like that's what they were doing.
Morbid
Episode 634: Michael and Suzan Carson: San Francisco Witch Killers
Yeah, exactly. It has cult vibes.
Morbid
Episode 634: Michael and Suzan Carson: San Francisco Witch Killers
Sometimes you got to, man. I love book covers. I do judge a book by its cover, to be honest. I'm just going to be real with you. You got a good cover, I'm going to buy it. And that's that you don't make your full judgment. Yes. Don't make your like end judgment and sentencing on a cover. Right. But you can take some little bits and pieces, gather some evidence from the cover.
Morbid
Episode 634: Michael and Suzan Carson: San Francisco Witch Killers
And it's also like a gut instinct. Yeah, you can follow that.
Morbid
Episode 634: Michael and Suzan Carson: San Francisco Witch Killers
I am. I get a feeling. Evil. I got a feeling. Could be bunnies. It's, yeah. Yeah. That's the thing. Like, there's something in the eyes.
Morbid
Episode 634: Michael and Suzan Carson: San Francisco Witch Killers
That's really inconvenient. Also very existential dread, dready. Yes.
Morbid
Episode 634: Michael and Suzan Carson: San Francisco Witch Killers
My God. Yeah, like you gotta rethink that social circle.
Morbid
Episode 634: Michael and Suzan Carson: San Francisco Witch Killers
I think people like it. I hope so. Personally. If not, take me away in a drone. Take me away. Yeah, what the fuck? Okay, so this is coming out in about six months. So hopefully... Hopefully. It's been like a few weeks. By then, if we figured out this drone situation, because you guys are in the future. So right now where we sit, we're in the thick of it. It's not even Krimis time yet.
Morbid
Episode 634: Michael and Suzan Carson: San Francisco Witch Killers
Oh, I thought you were going to just say like, she was like, he looks like Charles Manson. So he probably did it. I was like, that's not super fair. No, that's not super fair.
Morbid
Episode 634: Michael and Suzan Carson: San Francisco Witch Killers
I think she said, what? What? Hello? Like, imagine... Who? Out of nowhere, someone's just like... Witch. You're a witch consorting with the devil. Throw your necromancer book away. I would literally... You're trying to open the gates of hell. I'd be like, please elaborate. Tell me more. Like, what made you think that about me? Tell me.
Morbid
Episode 634: Michael and Suzan Carson: San Francisco Witch Killers
Me, I would cry. Because this isn't like somebody being funny and being like, I think you're a witch trying to consort with the devil. She's like, I think you're a witch trying to consort with the devil and you should die. And I want to do something about it. Yeah, exactly.
Morbid
Episode 634: Michael and Suzan Carson: San Francisco Witch Killers
essentially indoctrinated by Michael and Susan she decided to keep her distance from all three of them she closed that social circle yeah because honestly it's like what do you do I don't know when it's like when it gets to that point it's like it's really hard to pull someone back out of that well and you just have to protect yourself yeah you know
Morbid
Episode 634: Michael and Suzan Carson: San Francisco Witch Killers
That's even worse that they prey on people like that.
Morbid
Episode 634: Michael and Suzan Carson: San Francisco Witch Killers
And they have, like, cult leader-y vibes. Big time. And that's what they do. They prey on people who want to help other people or, you know, vulnerable in some way.
Morbid
Episode 634: Michael and Suzan Carson: San Francisco Witch Killers
Oh, yeah. No one's gonna talk.
Morbid
Episode 634: Michael and Suzan Carson: San Francisco Witch Killers
The Oregon Trail, you mean? No, it's the Oregon Trail.
Morbid
Episode 634: Michael and Suzan Carson: San Francisco Witch Killers
I can't either. I refuse. I refuse. I love you guys.
Morbid
Episode 634: Michael and Suzan Carson: San Francisco Witch Killers
Yeah, it sounds a little bit like the Evil Dead, so I'm going to stay away from that.
Morbid
Episode 634: Michael and Suzan Carson: San Francisco Witch Killers
Because think about it, they are in an echo chamber of their own twisted beliefs. Just being echoed back at them over and over and over. And intensified.
Morbid
Episode 634: Michael and Suzan Carson: San Francisco Witch Killers
Yeah. No counteracting ideas either. It's all the same. It's like, let's just keep feeding it.
Morbid
Episode 634: Michael and Suzan Carson: San Francisco Witch Killers
That's interesting to go to a place like that. Yeah. Yeah. Where you're going to stand out like they know everybody there probably.
Morbid
Episode 634: Michael and Suzan Carson: San Francisco Witch Killers
Have you ever, like, met someone like that that you just fucking hate each other immediately? Yes. Me too. Yeah.
Morbid
Episode 634: Michael and Suzan Carson: San Francisco Witch Killers
Because this is, like, religious mania kind of situation. No, it is. Like, this is not...
Morbid
Episode 634: Michael and Suzan Carson: San Francisco Witch Killers
like i think like i've thought someone's a demon before in a funny way like being like they're a demon they say demonic things they're the worst yeah this is like i think there's a demon yes here and i need to eradicate which is not good exactly it's it's sad because obviously there's some kind of unchecked mental illness there absolutely but it's like you wish that there was people around her that were like hey or people around them that were like hey you need help yeah like
Morbid
Episode 634: Michael and Suzan Carson: San Francisco Witch Killers
That's the thing. I don't have one. I do. I have no idea what's going on. I think. And I think the government does know what's going on, but they're not telling us. Don't get the government involved here.
Morbid
Episode 634: Michael and Suzan Carson: San Francisco Witch Killers
you know, insanity please and all that stuff are so difficult and so complex and so layered because like you think of we shot him because I was convinced he was a demon and that he was a petty witch who wanted to live off of Susan's life. You look at that and you go, okay. Insane. Something's really off here and these are two literally sick people.
Morbid
Episode 634: Michael and Suzan Carson: San Francisco Witch Killers
It's like they've been thinking it for a long time.
Morbid
Episode 634: Michael and Suzan Carson: San Francisco Witch Killers
But then you look at people covering up what they've done and you say, well, then you know what you've done. And then when you look at like chicken manure being what they chose, I'm like, you chose that. Of course. You chose manure for a reason. Absolutely. And to me, that's like evil. You're evil. You just happen to also have a mental illness.
Morbid
Episode 634: Michael and Suzan Carson: San Francisco Witch Killers
I think that would be like.
Morbid
Episode 634: Michael and Suzan Carson: San Francisco Witch Killers
I think that would be sick. Like, I think that would be awesome. I don't know if that's it. I think it's something much more sinister and mundane. It's going to be something that's much more like, oh, it's that. I don't think it's going to be like, oh, fuck, it's aliens. Because I think we'd all, at this point in our lives, I think all of us would be like,
Morbid
Episode 634: Michael and Suzan Carson: San Francisco Witch Killers
Yeah. So this is if they really thought he was a demon. They would be like, we killed a demon. Exactly. Like they wouldn't be trying to cover this up because they did something good. They killed a demon.
Morbid
Episode 634: Michael and Suzan Carson: San Francisco Witch Killers
Babe, where do you usually keep a weapon like that? In your waistband? You're a full-blown officer.
Morbid
Episode 634: Michael and Suzan Carson: San Francisco Witch Killers
Imagine your dog just bringing you a scorched human skull. No. That would be... Life-changing. Yeah, you don't come back from that.
Morbid
Episode 634: Michael and Suzan Carson: San Francisco Witch Killers
That's so scary. It's so like... Yucky to think about. Like think about the stress, the anxiety, the paranoia, the hate, the smell. Like all of that just like makes my, like stresses my nervous system out to think about.
Morbid
Episode 634: Michael and Suzan Carson: San Francisco Witch Killers
I was crying. He's like, they have me drive here two hours and they just tell me they don't know what's going on. The biggest waste of five hours. I love that, man. I too would be angry if I drove in New Jersey traffic to get to somewhere for them to say, we don't know what's going on.
Morbid
Episode 634: Michael and Suzan Carson: San Francisco Witch Killers
They are meeting so many powerful witches.
Morbid
Episode 634: Michael and Suzan Carson: San Francisco Witch Killers
Whoa, what does the triple Scorpio of it all have to do with that? Poor Scorpio. Scorpio's got a bad rep. I was just going to say, like, poor triple Scorpio's out there. I know. Scorpio's in general gets such a bad rep. Yeah, Scorpio's out there. This one's for you. I'm pouring a fake thing out. Me too. I love Scorpios.
Morbid
Episode 634: Michael and Suzan Carson: San Francisco Witch Killers
What pieces of shit these guys are.
Morbid
Episode 634: Michael and Suzan Carson: San Francisco Witch Killers
So wait, he's a demon and a witch? Both. Those are not two separate entities? No, they're different. They're the same? Demon, witch, triple Scorpio. Three different things. All the same thing. Oh, I thought it was... It seems to her like it's all the same thing. It's one guy. It's like...
Morbid
Episode 634: Michael and Suzan Carson: San Francisco Witch Killers
Wow. Who would have known? I think. I thought demons and witches were separate. And I didn't even put Scorpios into the equation. Well, silly mistake you made. I know. I'm crazy.
Morbid
Episode 634: Michael and Suzan Carson: San Francisco Witch Killers
Since they're staying in his home.
Morbid
Episode 634: Michael and Suzan Carson: San Francisco Witch Killers
Anything. I don't know what.
Morbid
Episode 634: Michael and Suzan Carson: San Francisco Witch Killers
The uncovered bridge. Is it covered? It's covered. The covered bridge. Yeah. I've never been there. It freaks me out. The uncovered bridge. That'd be a good book. It would be. The uncovered bridge. The uncovered bridge. Like you discovered it. Workshop that. We'll float that around later. I might have just given you a good idea. You did. But yeah, there was a whole UFO incident.
Morbid
Episode 634: Michael and Suzan Carson: San Francisco Witch Killers
I was just going to say, get comfy. But they...
Morbid
Episode 634: Michael and Suzan Carson: San Francisco Witch Killers
This batshit crazy stuff is going to happen to you. Like, no. My God. You're going to come across these two idiots. Yeah.
Morbid
Episode 634: Michael and Suzan Carson: San Francisco Witch Killers
And look at what he's doing now.
Morbid
Episode 634: Michael and Suzan Carson: San Francisco Witch Killers
Well, and it's even worse because it's like at four. Sorry, I dropped my water bottle. I love your buddy. At four, you very much like know your parent. You know what I mean? And to have him suddenly turn into a totally different person and then –
Morbid
Episode 634: Michael and Suzan Carson: San Francisco Witch Killers
You are correct in that. We should cover that. Yeah. I know. That would be a good one to cover for sure. I think that's on the docket somewhere. We love the Berks. The Berserk Shears, if you will. The Berserk Shears. Right back to Dorinda. I can make anything Bravo-coded. Look at that. We circled right back around. Anything. Yeah. You know, it's the new year where you are, everybody.
Morbid
Episode 634: Michael and Suzan Carson: San Francisco Witch Killers
Like, I did not—I thought these two just rolled up out of the dirt like this. Like, I thought they were both just rolling through like pig pen.
Morbid
Episode 634: Michael and Suzan Carson: San Francisco Witch Killers
And this poor... And fuck Michael for bringing this crazy bitch into his child's life. Yes. Fuck them both.
Morbid
Episode 634: Michael and Suzan Carson: San Francisco Witch Killers
And I'm looking forward to it, personally. Yeah, I've been looking forward to this new year for a long time. I think this is... My favorite number is five. Yeah, it's got a five in it. I do love a new year with a five in it. There you go. And I just think it's going to be a great year. Lots of things are planned. Yes. Lots of exciting things. Yes. Lots of big changes. Lots of big new things.
Morbid
Episode 634: Michael and Suzan Carson: San Francisco Witch Killers
But I hate that they had to do that. I know. Because of him being a complete dickface and her being a dangerous piece of shit. Yup.
Morbid
Episode 634: Michael and Suzan Carson: San Francisco Witch Killers
I'm taking you out of this situation.
Morbid
Episode 634: Michael and Suzan Carson: San Francisco Witch Killers
And to have to worry about him like appearing somewhere. You have to literally go in hiding because of this asshole.
Morbid
Episode 634: Michael and Suzan Carson: San Francisco Witch Killers
And imagine both of them have just abandoned their children. Yeah, he has a child and she had two. And are just like tripping balls in Europe with each other. And living off her trust fund. And living off her trust fund while like just abandon their families. Yeah. What absolute pieces of shit they were.
Morbid
Episode 634: Michael and Suzan Carson: San Francisco Witch Killers
And cherry-picked what they wanted.
Morbid
Episode 634: Michael and Suzan Carson: San Francisco Witch Killers
They made up their own religion.
Morbid
Episode 634: Michael and Suzan Carson: San Francisco Witch Killers
I'm sorry. Is the purity in the room with us? Where the fuck has the purity been in all this? Not here. And they said they were commiticated. Commiticated.
Morbid
Episode 634: Michael and Suzan Carson: San Francisco Witch Killers
All people who did not need to ever come in contact with these pieces of shit.
Morbid
Episode 634: Michael and Suzan Carson: San Francisco Witch Killers
Yeah, exciting things. That you guys can look forward to, we can look forward to. Yeah. I'm psyched about it. I literally cannot wait. There's a lot of good books coming out. There is. Next year, like Grady Hendrix has a new book coming out in the beginning of the year. I've got it on pre-order right now. Witchcraft for Wayward Girls. And it's big. Babes, I got an arc. And it's real good. I know.
Morbid
Episode 634: Michael and Suzan Carson: San Francisco Witch Killers
And I love doctors. That's like a swear word. It's like, wow.
Morbid
Episode 634: Michael and Suzan Carson: San Francisco Witch Killers
Yeah. Like straight up murderers. Like you kill people. Like kill and plan to get away with it. Yeah. Murderers. But doctors are like swear words. And plan the murder ahead of time. Like you are murderers.
Morbid
Episode 634: Michael and Suzan Carson: San Francisco Witch Killers
They're like, maybe we did this. Yeah. Like, I want more attention. And it's like... When you see, like, real mental illness, it's so different from this. Like, this is clearly mental illness. Of some sort. I'm not saying they're not mentally ill. But I'm saying a lot of this is attention-seeking behavior. And it's like, and a lot of that is same-thinking behavior. Yes, 90%, I would say. Yeah.
Morbid
Episode 634: Michael and Suzan Carson: San Francisco Witch Killers
Yeah, I mean, that's not... Yeah, come on.
Morbid
Episode 634: Michael and Suzan Carson: San Francisco Witch Killers
You bitch. It's so good. I can't wait. It's so good. Chuck Wendig has a new book coming out in like April, I think. Love that. The Staircase in the Woods. Love that. So fucking good, guys.
Morbid
Episode 634: Michael and Suzan Carson: San Francisco Witch Killers
Can you... Sitting there saying it's for religious reasons. Yeah. You killed someone for religious reasons. I'm like, what about... And then you're trying to convert people to your religion.
Morbid
Episode 634: Michael and Suzan Carson: San Francisco Witch Killers
Yeah. That's apparently not part of theirs. Hello? Yeah. They left that one out intentionally.
Morbid
Episode 634: Michael and Suzan Carson: San Francisco Witch Killers
What does it say about abandoning your whole family or hurting a child on purpose and telling them that you were going to remove the devil out of them physically? They didn't pick that part. That wasn't in there? No, not in there. Not in there. Special subsection. Witchcraft, being gay, and abortion. Yeah, let's do that.
Morbid
Episode 634: Michael and Suzan Carson: San Francisco Witch Killers
Oh my God. I have, I want to punch her in the face. Same. Like violence is not the answer, but I want to punch this woman in the face.
Morbid
Episode 634: Michael and Suzan Carson: San Francisco Witch Killers
This is very West Memphis Three when they had the guy who had a mail order degree on the stand. Yes. And made him say it several times that he had a mail order degree that anybody could get. And then they still somehow convicted all three of them. Yeah.
Morbid
Episode 634: Michael and Suzan Carson: San Francisco Witch Killers
What? They let her talk for 40 minutes.
Morbid
Episode 634: Michael and Suzan Carson: San Francisco Witch Killers
Babe, if you had taken the stand in your own defense, it would have gone a lot worse for you. Yeah, you would have gotten the same outcome. I think they would have built a new prison just to house you. That way you would have been bad.
Morbid
Episode 634: Michael and Suzan Carson: San Francisco Witch Killers
I love that. Like a folk horror situation like Slewfoot is really – I love that. And guys, if you're feeling – like I'm telling you, if you get – it's a good book will get you on that path of just wanting to gobble up a million books. It really will. Yes.
Morbid
Episode 634: Michael and Suzan Carson: San Francisco Witch Killers
Because it's like, do you think her becoming a little old lady is going to change the fact that she's a crazy, dangerous bitch? No. She's just going to be an old, crazy, dangerous bitch. And we don't need that because that's even more manipulative.
Morbid
Episode 634: Michael and Suzan Carson: San Francisco Witch Killers
sirens is expected to come out uh april 1st 2025 oh so the beginning of the half of the year like really has some look at the cover some bangers coming out i love the cover yeah i mean let's go amelia hart yeah let's go sorry buy their books uh buy mine too while you're i mean butcher in the red hey 2025 you never know what could happen you never know what could never know maybe another installment of ren
Morbid
Episode 634: Michael and Suzan Carson: San Francisco Witch Killers
No. You know? That's the thing. And especially the way that it all happened. It's awful. It's awful.
Morbid
Episode 634: Michael and Suzan Carson: San Francisco Witch Killers
Yeah, a wild case though. They're disgusting. And I'm happy that they're still going to continue to rot forever. Me too. Because they don't seem like they have any remorse either. No, they don't at all. And they still believe the same things. Yeah, they still are hate-filled bags of pus. So it's like, just leave them in there.
Morbid
Episode 634: Michael and Suzan Carson: San Francisco Witch Killers
A flat circle. What does that mean? It's just like nothing. Like it just is in on itself.
Morbid
Episode 634: Michael and Suzan Carson: San Francisco Witch Killers
It's a crazy set of just... I don't even know how to describe it. It's just... Even just that crime countdown little blurb we got was like, I'm sorry, what?
Morbid
Episode 634: Michael and Suzan Carson: San Francisco Witch Killers
You know what? When you hear something like that, I was thinking about this the other day. I think a lot of times people become, I think the whole world is desensitized to so many things right now. Big time. That I think when you hear like hit repeatedly with a blunt object in the head and like stabbed 13 times, you're like, whoa, that's crazy. Sit with it. Yeah. Sit with it for a second.
Morbid
Episode 634: Michael and Suzan Carson: San Francisco Witch Killers
Think about what that entails. Move your arm. If you really sit there and think about what that entails, these kind of things will fuck you up so much harder. And I know that's probably not what everybody wants, but... That's a lot.
Morbid
Episode 634: Michael and Suzan Carson: San Francisco Witch Killers
Exactly. I'm glad you said that. How much time it takes and what that would be like to go through. And it's like, you got to do that. It's overkill. Yeah. It's overkill. It's absurd.
Morbid
Episode 634: Michael and Suzan Carson: San Francisco Witch Killers
Why does that keep happening?
Morbid
Episode 642: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 2)
Hey, weirdos. Before we dive into today's twisted tale, let me tell you about a place where the darkness never ends. Wondery Plus. It's like stepping into a haunted mansion where the floorboards creak with ad-free episodes and early access to new episodes lurks around every corner. So come join us if you dare. Morbid is available one week early and ad-free only on Wondery Plus.
Morbid
Episode 642: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 2)
I'm so glad people are following their gut instincts with this guy. Because you never hear that. First that good Samaritan. Now this park ranger and the woman so far, and I'm sure there's more, but the woman for the dating game. Yep. Cheryl. Everyone, like this man must have like omitted the nastiest vibes. But to the most like, or like to people who are very like in tune.
Morbid
Episode 642: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 2)
And maybe might not even realize how in tune they are to these things.
Morbid
Episode 642: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 2)
Because obviously he, other people, he came off as charming.
Morbid
Episode 642: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 2)
And normal and... Didn't give off bad vibes.
Morbid
Episode 642: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 2)
That's the thing. Who don't necessarily trust their instincts yet. They're not equipped to really be looking for those kind of things. Right. But to people who must have a little bit of something there, it's interesting to see how many people were like, what the fuck's up with this guy? Something is telling me to go look.
Morbid
Episode 642: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 2)
Yeah. Which is fucked. And, like, this guy, he's just seeing, like, the smoke. Yeah. And seeing, like, just two people sitting.
Morbid
Episode 642: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 2)
So he didn't even see, like, the whole, like, dragging her down the beach thing. Yep, exactly. So he's just like, something's weird here.
Morbid
Episode 642: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 2)
I know. Believe the child. Believe the child. If they're saying they're kidnapped, like this is my PSA to everybody. If a kid says they're kidnapped. Believe the child. At least believe, like if they're not, then egg on your face, I guess.
Morbid
Episode 642: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 2)
Wow. He's just going to blame the 13-year-old girl? Yeah, totally.
Morbid
Episode 642: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 2)
It's like winter and it literally is. Yeah, I don't have a cold anymore, but I woke up with the worst fucking allergies. And it's not a cold.
Morbid
Episode 642: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 2)
There's so many little layers to this one because, one, even if the girl is lying and she snuck out with an older man to do this... Why is this older man down to do that? That's the older man's fault. Yep. Because she's a child and he is grooming and fucking, like... Are you preying upon her? We're really like, I don't know who to believe here. I don't know.
Morbid
Episode 642: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 2)
Let's look at the facts that she's with a grown fucking man. Yeah. Let's go with it's his fault. No matter what? She was one of those hippie taps who was smoking weed. And it's like, and then this poor girl has been kidnapped from a bus stop. When she was literally just going to school.
Morbid
Episode 642: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 2)
And has been taken somewhere against, like screamed at, taken somewhere against her will, dragged down the beach, forced to smoke pot. Yup. As a 13-year-old. Yeah. And now she's having to be interrogated and be released to her parents.
Morbid
Episode 642: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 2)
Yeah, no, she's fauceting. Like the face is fauceting.
Morbid
Episode 642: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 2)
In the most fucking rancid way. It's like, this is... He kidnapped an eight-year-old, raped her, and tried to kill her, and you let him go. And then he does the same thing with a third... Like, he was planning... God only knows what he was planning. Nobody's going to tell me he wasn't planning on assaulting and probably trying to kill her. And you're just going to let him go.
Morbid
Episode 642: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 2)
It just is like very infuriating.
Morbid
Episode 642: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 2)
You know, he's done it twice, but, like, who would ever think... Let's drop those charges. Who would ever think he would do it a third time? Like, what?
Morbid
Episode 642: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 2)
I... A bunch of buffoons are involved in this. Truly. A bunch of buffoons.
Morbid
Episode 642: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 2)
And a lot of women would still be here today. Yeah, a lot of women suffered and died because of these fucking buffoons. Yup. That's buffoonery. It's buffoonery at its finest.
Morbid
Episode 642: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 2)
I'm such an empath. You really are. You're such an empath. And yeah, so I'm not sick, but I might sound a little congested just because- You do, but not bad. Fucking allergies, you guys.
Morbid
Episode 642: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 2)
cope with that yeah it's yeah the this case for you is probably like the moore's murderers were for me yeah because i was like invading like a lot of times it invades my dreams but like that invaded my dreams in a way that i can't describe no that's the thing and i don't usually do the more brutal cases like you do but
Morbid
Episode 642: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 2)
And you know they weren't going to deny it.
Morbid
Episode 642: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 2)
You can join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or an Apple podcast or Spotify.
Morbid
Episode 642: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 2)
My God. He's far more brutal than I even anticipated.
Morbid
Episode 642: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 2)
Yeah, because I was going to say all that trauma from the ligature. She experienced all of that. Yeah.
Morbid
Episode 642: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 2)
I think I've told everybody about my method. I don't know if you have to have like a divergent brain for it to work. You do. You absolutely do. But it literally works for me.
Morbid
Episode 642: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 2)
Yeah. Yeah, asshole. The dating game sounds like a nightmare anyways. Yeah, it truly does. Like, if these are the answers you're getting, where are the choices, my friend? Where are the choices? Below ground level.
Morbid
Episode 642: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 2)
What makes me crazy about this, and it's very horrifying, is all he's done up to this point, and he's like, I think I'll go on TV. He's like, Spotlight, and it's like, what? And he did. He didn't care that Spotlight was going to be thrust upon him. He was that convinced. And honestly... He had every reason to be. Yeah, he didn't have any reason to think he would be stopped.
Morbid
Episode 642: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 2)
And has a personal conversation with him.
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Episode 642: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 2)
Because I think also the mask drops.
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Episode 642: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 2)
Big time. Like he's on TV. He's sitting there charming everyone. He's putting on a show. And then he goes in front of her and he says like three words and she's like, you're fucking weird and I'm good.
Morbid
Episode 642: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 2)
If you feel it out there, it's... If you picture whatever you're picturing in your head, it's usually a visual that will really get me. My brain will make a visual or I'll see a visual during research that just really fucks me up. And right now, I just got, whoops, it's there. I'm thinking about the Moores murders and a certain visual is coming into my brain. So right now...
Morbid
Episode 642: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 2)
Listening gut, everybody. I can't imagine. The people who did were the right ones in this story. Yeah. Oh, his eyes are...
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Episode 642: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 2)
Like, I don't see him just going on that date. No. No. I see this as the next step in his, like, let's see if I can do this. Because it's upping the ante. Oh, I'll win this date with her.
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Episode 642: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 2)
Literally, I will do it in front of America's face.
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Episode 642: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 2)
I'll do this girl. I'll kill this girl that everyone... sees me when the date was, and they still won't catch me. And I'll get away with it. I think that's exactly what he was planning. But it's like, that is also like... That's a level of, like, hubris. Yes. That is Greek mythology, like, style. Like, that is, like, that's so wild. Because you're just, like, I know that was your intention.
Morbid
Episode 642: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 2)
But if you had gone on that date with Cheryl and, like, thank goodness, Cheryl. I am so glad Cheryl got out of this. But, like, if you had killed... Cheryl. Yeah. And, like, everyone knew that you won this date with her and you were the last person with her. You would have been caught. Yeah. Like, that would have been the end.
Morbid
Episode 642: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 2)
Well, and it's like literally like it's diabolical level of hubris.
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Episode 642: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 2)
Because it's like that would have been it. Like that wouldn't have been one you can get out of. You would have been the last person with that person. You would think.
Morbid
Episode 642: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 2)
And I got out in 30 something months.
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Episode 642: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 2)
I think he thought this was going to be perfect. No, he had every reason to think that this was going to be. It's just, I think my brain just won't wrap. I'm like, it shouldn't. This is just like. Yeah.
Morbid
Episode 642: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 2)
It enabled him completely. Exactly. It's just very shocking. It is.
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Episode 642: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 2)
I know, poor Cheryl. And poor Cheryl just for being that close to this.
Morbid
Episode 642: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 2)
I'm glad she got away from this. I just can't imagine how she felt when she...
Morbid
Episode 642: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 2)
I'm looking at it, and in my brain, I have one of those little dry erase board erasers. Yes, erasers. And I'm erasing it. And it's gone. And if it pops back up, then I say, oh, now we're on a computer. Throw it in the trash. I don't have a backup, so I can't see it again. You are interesting. I actually told the girls to do that, and that helped my kids. They were having like nightmares.
Morbid
Episode 642: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 2)
The moment when she comes around the partition is very interesting.
Morbid
Episode 642: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 2)
Yeah. You know something's off when like he's even coming off as predatory to another man.
Morbid
Episode 642: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 2)
And imagine being Cheryl, too. I didn't even think of this part of it. Being the woman, you said, no, I'm not going out with him. And now he knows who you are. I know. And you're worried, like, he gave me the creeps. And she doesn't even know what he's done. No. But it's like, you were creeped out enough to not want to go out with him.
Morbid
Episode 642: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 2)
I would be like, that must have weighed on her a little bit, just being like... Is he going to follow me? Is he mad? Is he going to be like weird about it? Like that's a I mean, men get really fucking weird when they get rejected. So it's like men get weird when they're rejected privately. Literally. So it's like on a date like you can I'm sure she was very nervous about that.
Morbid
Episode 642: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 2)
And then to hear later, I'd be like, oh, my God. Like that's like, holy shit. Yeah.
Morbid
Episode 642: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 2)
That's a whole different thing to work through.
Morbid
Episode 642: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 2)
It was just one night where they had watched something, I think, and we didn't think it was going to be anything that would bother them, but you just never know what's going to stick with a kid. And I think it was like – I can't remember, actually – But they were like, oh, that like this one scene in this movie or TV show, like where there was like a wolf or something.
Morbid
Episode 642: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 2)
I can't with these fucking creeps who do this shit and then start to cry and stuff. Like, you gotta go.
Morbid
Episode 642: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 2)
And then watching this man sit there and cry next to her on a blanket.
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Episode 642: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 2)
No, that would be so over the line of my comprehension that I couldn't even.
Morbid
Episode 642: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 2)
Monique is fucking smart as fuck. Boss.
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Episode 642: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 2)
See, and that's smart too, because you're being like, I don't want anyone to know.
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Episode 642: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 2)
I can't imagine. I also just, like, I'm really... I admire this level of collectedness because being able to, like, compartmentalize what's going on. And think that quickly. Whenever, like, people, survivors will do this kind of thing, I'm like, I just... That's... So admirable to me because I have a lot of trouble not showing exactly how I feel about a situation. Me too.
Morbid
Episode 642: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 2)
Like I have a lot – you're going to tell. If I'm pissed, I'm pissed. Yeah, and if I'm upset, I'm upset. And it's like I have trouble like bending my emotion to go the other way and these people can just like – like these women just are able to like just zone in and think so clearly. Yeah. It's – Very admirable.
Morbid
Episode 642: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 2)
They were like, what if there's a wolf in the woods? And I was like, well, what are you seeing in your head? And they just told me. And I was like, okay. And I was like, you know how on a computer you can erase something by putting it in the trash? And they were like, yeah. I was like, put the image in the trash. Maybe I'll try that. And then I was like, did you guys make a backup?
Morbid
Episode 642: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 2)
Yeah, they're like, that sounds crazy.
Morbid
Episode 642: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 2)
Oh. Okay. Oh, he's just like, you know, you can understand why I started choking her after the child said she wouldn't do that.
Morbid
Episode 642: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 2)
Did you save another version of that image? And they were like, what? I was like, did you save another version of that image? Mom, this is the office. And they were like, no. I was like, then you can't see it again because you trashed it.
Morbid
Episode 642: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 2)
And it's like, I'm sorry, don't try to like have a moment with everyone and be like, you know, you just don't know what you're doing. It's like, no, most people do know what they're doing. I know exactly what I'm doing. Don't try to be on a level with me.
Morbid
Episode 642: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 2)
When I tell you the buffoonery here in the legal system.
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Episode 642: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 2)
No, and she's got to get it. She's got to get a fucking grip. Agreed. Is what she needs to do. Agreed. Like you got to hold your son accountable.
Morbid
Episode 642: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 2)
And one of my kids especially was like, that worked. I love that your brain just always stands on business. Yeah, 100%.
Morbid
Episode 642: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 2)
At least there's that. As good of, I should say, as good of a note as it came.
Morbid
Episode 642: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 2)
At least like some justice is served in the end. Okay. I mean, I know he's, yeah. Yeah. I mean, bitch, he died. I mean, bitch, he died. So justice was served. Yes, exactly. Damn. Yes. This is just such a fucking brutal and awful case. And just full of failure. Yeah. And these poor women and young girls.
Morbid
Episode 642: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 2)
are sitting there watching this guy get away with it each time yeah and just like the the ones who have escaped who have survived him are watching him literally do it again and again yeah and no one's listening no one gives a and it's like we said you know cheryl bradshaw obviously must have been terrified just for turning down a date imagine being 15 year old monique
Morbid
Episode 642: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 2)
I'm constantly doing admin in my brain. You're so weird. So, yeah. If you don't have a backup of it, you can't get it back. Oh, I have a backup of every horrible memory that I've ever had. Keep throwing it in the trash. I'll try. And then you empty the trash.
Morbid
Episode 642: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 2)
You touch my kids, I will kill you.
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Episode 642: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 2)
You hit that little button that says empty trash and then you say, fuck, I can't get that back.
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Episode 642: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 2)
Because you know how terrifying that is when you do that with something you need. Like you're like, oh, shit, I accidentally like forever deleted that.
Morbid
Episode 642: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 2)
That's what you do with those bad images because then you have that moment of like, oh, fuck, it's gone. And you're like, well, that's gone.
Morbid
Episode 642: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 2)
I think you just kind of... It helps. Yeah. It really does. Because it's so, like... it's so clinical yeah yeah exactly that it's an easy way to do it if you can get your brain in that place to like visualize i'm gonna have to try the trash one because i haven't yeah it takes a minute to like visualize that but once you're able to visualize that it is very helpful
Morbid
Episode 642: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 2)
So anybody out there, if you're having things that pop into your brain that, you know, whatever it may be, I'm not saying it will help you. I'm just saying if you can get yourself in that mindset that you can see that, like putting it into a trash or wiping it with a dry erase eraser. Go for it.
Morbid
Episode 642: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 2)
Yeah. See, yours is like, yours is very harrowing to me. That's harrowing. That's therapy, babe. Therapy's harrowing. Like, let yourself have the thought. No, thank you. Like, that's where I... No. Let yourself have the thought. No.
Morbid
Episode 642: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 2)
Isn't his name Berger? His last name is Berger and they call him Berger.
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Episode 642: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 2)
Is it John? Now I need to look. You got to look it up really quick. Jack Berger. Oh, Jack. Which probably is John. Strangely, Jack is a nickname for John, even though they're the same amount of letters.
Morbid
Episode 642: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 2)
But it shielded her emotionally from... what had happened.
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Episode 642: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 2)
She's able to speak about what she does remember now. I used the word harrowing before, but that's harrowing to do anyway. I thought you were going to use that word because it's perfect.
Morbid
Episode 642: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 2)
That sucks that that's the option. Yeah. You either traumatize this eight-year-old or, like, lose the case. Like, what... That sucks.
Morbid
Episode 642: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 2)
But honestly, it shouldn't take that. It shouldn't take that. It shouldn't take her sitting in front of you to do that. The facts are the facts.
Morbid
Episode 642: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 2)
This man abducted an 8-year-old and brutally assaulted and tried to murder her. Yep.
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Episode 642: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 2)
There's no temptation for him. Of course, he can't attack children in there.
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Episode 642: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 2)
Yeah, he did everything that he had to do. He tracked him down all the way to New Hampshire. He was probably looking at this like he said. Like, we got him. We got him early. Something awful happened for him to be caught. But hopefully that's the end of it. And no more has to happen.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Putting the Heat on GOP Senators ft. Megyn Kelly
I'm so glad people are following their gut instincts with this guy. Because you never hear that. First that good Samaritan. Now this park ranger and the woman so far, and I'm sure there's more, but the woman for the dating game. Yep. Cheryl. Everyone, like this man must have like omitted the nastiest vibes. But to the most like, or like to people who are very like in tune. Yes.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Putting the Heat on GOP Senators ft. Megyn Kelly
And maybe might not even realize how in tune they are to these things. Yeah. Because obviously he, other people, he came off as charming. Yeah. And normal and...
The Charlie Kirk Show
Putting the Heat on GOP Senators ft. Megyn Kelly
They're not equipped to really be looking for those kind of things. Right. But to people who must have a little bit of something there, it's interesting to see how many people were like, what the fuck's up with this guy? Something is telling me to go look.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Putting the Heat on GOP Senators ft. Megyn Kelly
Yeah. Which is fucked. And like this guy, he's just seeing like the smoke. Yeah. And seeing like just two people sitting.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Putting the Heat on GOP Senators ft. Megyn Kelly
So he didn't even see like the whole like dragging her down the beach thing. Yep, exactly. So he's just like something's weird here. He's like, what's up with this? Yeah.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Putting the Heat on GOP Senators ft. Megyn Kelly
I know. Believe the child. Believe the child. If they're saying they're kidnapped, like this is my PSA to everybody. If a kid says they're kidnapped. Believe the child. At least believe, like if they're not, then egg on your face, I guess. Yes.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Putting the Heat on GOP Senators ft. Megyn Kelly
Wow. He's just going to blame the 13-year-old girl? Yeah, totally. Wow.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Putting the Heat on GOP Senators ft. Megyn Kelly
There's so many little layers to this one because, one, even if the girl is lying and she snuck out with an older man to do this... Why is this older man down to do that? That's the older man's fault. Yep. Because she's a child and he is grooming and fucking, like... Are you preying upon her? We're really like, I don't know who to believe here. I don't know.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Putting the Heat on GOP Senators ft. Megyn Kelly
Let's look at the facts that she's with a grown fucking man. Yeah. Let's go with it's his fault. No matter what? She was one of those hippie taps who was smoking weed. And it's like, and then this poor girl has been kidnapped from a bus stop. When she was literally just going to school.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Putting the Heat on GOP Senators ft. Megyn Kelly
And has been taken somewhere against, like screamed at, taken somewhere against her will, dragged down the beach, forced to smoke pot. Yup. As a 13-year-old. Yeah. And now she's having to be interrogated and be released to her parents. And nobody even believes her. And nobody's believing her.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Putting the Heat on GOP Senators ft. Megyn Kelly
In the most fucking rancid way. It's like this is... He kidnapped an eight-year-old, raped her, and tried to kill her, and you let him go. And then he does the same thing with a third... Like, he was planning... God only knows what he was planning. Nobody's going to tell me he wasn't planning on assaulting and probably trying to kill her. And you're just going to let him go.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Putting the Heat on GOP Senators ft. Megyn Kelly
You know, he's done it twice, but, like, who would ever think... Let's drop those charges. Who would ever think he would do it a third time? Like, what? What?
The Charlie Kirk Show
Putting the Heat on GOP Senators ft. Megyn Kelly
It's like winter and it literally is. Yeah, I don't have a cold anymore, but I woke up with the worst fucking allergies. And it's not a cold. I'm not sick. Yeah, no, she's fauceting. Like the face is fauceting. Yeah. It just is like very infuriating.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Putting the Heat on GOP Senators ft. Megyn Kelly
A bunch of buffoons are involved in this. Truly. A bunch of buffoons. Truly. And a lot of women would still be here today. Yeah, a lot of women suffered and died because of these fucking buffoons. Yup. That's buffoonery. It's buffoonery at its finest.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Putting the Heat on GOP Senators ft. Megyn Kelly
I'm such an empath. You really are. You're such an empath. And yeah, so I'm not sick, but I might sound a little congested just because. You do, but not allergies.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Putting the Heat on GOP Senators ft. Megyn Kelly
Yeah. Oh, that makes me so sad.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Putting the Heat on GOP Senators ft. Megyn Kelly
And you know they weren't going to deny it.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Putting the Heat on GOP Senators ft. Megyn Kelly
cope with that yeah it's yeah this case for you is probably like the moore's murderers were for me yeah because i was like invading like a lot of times it invades my dreams but like that invaded my dreams in a way that i can't describe no that's the thing and i don't usually do the more brutal cases like you do but
The Charlie Kirk Show
Putting the Heat on GOP Senators ft. Megyn Kelly
My God. He's far more brutal than I even anticipated.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Putting the Heat on GOP Senators ft. Megyn Kelly
You got to hold him accountable. He did some shit wrong. Yeah.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Putting the Heat on GOP Senators ft. Megyn Kelly
Yeah, because I was going to say all that trauma from the ligature. She experienced all of that.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Putting the Heat on GOP Senators ft. Megyn Kelly
I hate this a lot. With a potato peeler. Yeah. Asshole. The dating game sounds like a nightmare anyways. Yeah, it truly does. Like, if these are the answers you're getting, where are the choices, my friend? Where are the choices? Below ground level.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Putting the Heat on GOP Senators ft. Megyn Kelly
What makes me crazy about this, and it's very horrifying, is all he's done up to this point, and he's like, I think I'll go on TV. Yeah. He's like, spotlight, and it's like, what? And he did. He didn't care that spotlight was going to be thrust upon him. He was that convinced. And honestly... He had every reason to be. Yeah, he didn't have any reason to think he would be stopped.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Putting the Heat on GOP Senators ft. Megyn Kelly
I think I've told everybody about my method. I don't know if you have to have like a divergent brain for it to work. You do. You absolutely do. But it literally works for me.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Putting the Heat on GOP Senators ft. Megyn Kelly
And has a personal conversation with him.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Putting the Heat on GOP Senators ft. Megyn Kelly
Because I think also the mask drops. Yes, big time. Like he's on TV. He's sitting there charming everyone. He's putting on a show. And then he goes in front of her and he says like three words and she's like, you're fucking weird and I'm good.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Putting the Heat on GOP Senators ft. Megyn Kelly
Listening gut, everybody. I can't imagine. The people who did were the right ones in this story. Yeah.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Putting the Heat on GOP Senators ft. Megyn Kelly
Like I don't see him just going on that date. No. I see this as the next step in his, like, let's see if I can do this. Because it's upping the ante. Oh, I'll win this date with her.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Putting the Heat on GOP Senators ft. Megyn Kelly
Yeah, you're not divergent enough.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Putting the Heat on GOP Senators ft. Megyn Kelly
I'll win this date and I'll kill this girl and I'll get away with it. I'll do this girl. I'll kill this girl that everyone... sees me when the date was and they still won't catch me. And I'll get away with it. I think that's exactly what he was planning. But it's like that is also like That's a level of, like, hubris. Yes. That is Greek mythology, like, style. Like, that is, like, that's so wild.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Putting the Heat on GOP Senators ft. Megyn Kelly
Because you're just, like, I know that was your intention. Oh, yeah. But if you had gone on that date with Cheryl and, like, thank goodness, Cheryl. I am so glad Cheryl got out of this. But I'm, like, if you had killed... Cheryl. Yeah. And, like, everyone knew that you won this date with her and you were the last person with her. You would have been caught. Yeah.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Putting the Heat on GOP Senators ft. Megyn Kelly
Like, that would have been the end.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Putting the Heat on GOP Senators ft. Megyn Kelly
Well, and it's like, literally like, it's diabolical level of hubris. Because it's like, that would have been it. Like, that wouldn't have been one you can get out of. You would have been the last person with that person. You would think, but...
The Charlie Kirk Show
Putting the Heat on GOP Senators ft. Megyn Kelly
Yeah, if you feel it out there. If you picture whatever you're picturing in your head, like it's usually like a visual that will really get me. Like my brain will make a visual or I'll see a visual during research that just like.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Putting the Heat on GOP Senators ft. Megyn Kelly
And I got out in 30 something months.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Putting the Heat on GOP Senators ft. Megyn Kelly
I think he thought this was going to be perfect. No, he had every, every reason to think that this was going to be. It's just, I think my brain just won't wrap. I'm like, it shouldn't. This is just like,
The Charlie Kirk Show
Putting the Heat on GOP Senators ft. Megyn Kelly
Well, it enabled him. Enabled him, exactly. It enabled him completely. Exactly. It's just very shocking. It is. And poor Cheryl. I know. And poor Cheryl. And poor Cheryl just for like being that close to this. You know what I mean? Yeah. I can't imagine. I'm glad she got away from this.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Putting the Heat on GOP Senators ft. Megyn Kelly
The moment when she comes around the partition is very interesting.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Putting the Heat on GOP Senators ft. Megyn Kelly
really fucks me up and like right now like i just got whoops it's there like i'm thinking about the moore's murders and a certain visual is coming into my brain so right now i'm looking at it and in my brain i have one of those little dry erase board erasers yes erasers and i'm erasing it And it's gone. And if it pops back up, then I say, oh, now we're on a computer. Throw it in the trash.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Putting the Heat on GOP Senators ft. Megyn Kelly
Yeah. Like that's creepy. Yeah. You know something's off when like he's even coming off as predatory to another man. Yeah.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Putting the Heat on GOP Senators ft. Megyn Kelly
And imagine being Cheryl, too. I didn't even think of this part of it. Being the woman, you said, no, I'm not going out with him. And now he knows who you are. I know. And you're worried, like, he gave me the creeps. And she doesn't even know what he's done. No. But it's like, you were creeped out enough to not want to go out with him.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Putting the Heat on GOP Senators ft. Megyn Kelly
I would be like, that must have weighed on her a little bit, just being like... Is he going to follow me? Is he mad? Is he going to be like weird about it? Like that's a I mean, men get really fucking weird when they get rejected. So it's like men get weird when they're rejected privately. Literally. So it's like on a date like you can I'm sure she was very nervous about that.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Putting the Heat on GOP Senators ft. Megyn Kelly
And then to hear later, I'd be like, oh, my God. Like that's like, holy shit. Yeah. No, you're so right. That's a whole different thing to work through. He did stalk people.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Putting the Heat on GOP Senators ft. Megyn Kelly
We don't know what happened, but she's 15.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Putting the Heat on GOP Senators ft. Megyn Kelly
I don't have a backup, so I can't see it again. You are interesting. I actually told the girls to do that, and that helped my kids. They were having like nightmares. It was just one night where they had watched something, I think, and we didn't think it was going to be anything that would bother them, but you just never know what's going to stick with a kid.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Putting the Heat on GOP Senators ft. Megyn Kelly
I can't with these fucking creeps who do this shit and then start to cry and stuff. Like, you gotta go.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Putting the Heat on GOP Senators ft. Megyn Kelly
And then she wakes... Like, the bizarre confusion of this all... No, that would be so over the line of my comprehension that I couldn't even... Like, that... Now remember, she's blacked out twice.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Putting the Heat on GOP Senators ft. Megyn Kelly
Monique is fucking smart as fuck.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Putting the Heat on GOP Senators ft. Megyn Kelly
See, and that's smart too, because you're being like, I don't want anyone to know. Like, I'm not going to tell anyone. I would never tell anybody.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Putting the Heat on GOP Senators ft. Megyn Kelly
I can't imagine. I also just like I'm really – I admire this level of collectedness because being able to like compartmentalize what's going on. And think that quickly. Whenever like people, survivors will do this kind of thing, I'm like I just – that's – So admirable to me because I have a lot of trouble not showing exactly how I feel about a situation. Me too.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Putting the Heat on GOP Senators ft. Megyn Kelly
Like I have a lot – you're going to tell. If I'm pissed, I'm pissed. Yeah, and if I'm upset, I'm upset. And it's like I have trouble like bending my emotion to go the other way and these people can just like – like these women just are able to like just zone in and think so clearly. Yeah. It's – Very admirable.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Putting the Heat on GOP Senators ft. Megyn Kelly
And I think it was like – I can't remember, actually – But they were like, oh, that like this one scene in this movie or TV show, like where there was like a wolf or something. They were like, what if there's a wolf in the woods? And I was like, well, what are you seeing in your head? And they just told me. And I was like, okay.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Putting the Heat on GOP Senators ft. Megyn Kelly
Jesus Christ. She's 15, so she can't agree to that.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Putting the Heat on GOP Senators ft. Megyn Kelly
Oh. Okay. Oh, he's just like, you know, you can understand why I started choking her after the child said she wouldn't do that.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Putting the Heat on GOP Senators ft. Megyn Kelly
And it's like, I'm sorry, don't try to like have a moment with everyone and be like, you know, you just don't know what you're doing. It's like, no, most people do know what they're doing. I know exactly what I'm doing. Don't try to be on a level with me. We're not on the same level.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Putting the Heat on GOP Senators ft. Megyn Kelly
When I tell you the buffoonery here in the legal system.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Putting the Heat on GOP Senators ft. Megyn Kelly
And I was like, you know how on a computer you can erase something by putting it in the trash? And they were like, yeah. I was like, put the image in the trash. Maybe I'll try that. And then I was like, did you guys make a backup? Did you save another version of that image? And they were like, what? I was like, did you save another version of that image? Mom, this is the office.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Putting the Heat on GOP Senators ft. Megyn Kelly
As good of, I should say, as good of a note as it can. Yeah. At least like some justice is served in the end. Okay. I mean, I know he's, yeah. Yeah. I mean, bitch, he died. I mean, bitch, he died. So justice was served. Yes, exactly. Damn. Yes. This is just such a fucking brutal and awful case. And just full of failure. Yeah. And these poor women and young girls.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Putting the Heat on GOP Senators ft. Megyn Kelly
are sitting there watching this guy get away with it each time yeah and just like the the ones who have escaped who have survived him are watching him literally do it again and again yeah and no one's listening no one gives a shit and it's like we said you know cheryl bradshaw obviously must have been terrified just for turning down a date imagine being 15 year old monique
The Charlie Kirk Show
Putting the Heat on GOP Senators ft. Megyn Kelly
And they were like, no. I was like, then you can't see it again because you trashed it.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Putting the Heat on GOP Senators ft. Megyn Kelly
I don't know if you can, to be quite honest.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Putting the Heat on GOP Senators ft. Megyn Kelly
And one of my kids especially was like, that worked. I love that your brain just always stands on business. Yeah, 100%.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Putting the Heat on GOP Senators ft. Megyn Kelly
The abolitionist mission isn't done until every prison is empty and shut down.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Putting the Heat on GOP Senators ft. Megyn Kelly
I am. I'm constantly doing admin in my brain. You're so weird. So, yeah. If you don't have a backup of it, you can't get it back. Oh, I have a backup of every horrible memory that I've ever had. Keep throwing it in the trash. I'll try. And then you empty the trash.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Putting the Heat on GOP Senators ft. Megyn Kelly
You hit that little button that says empty trash and then you say, fuck, I can't get that back.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Putting the Heat on GOP Senators ft. Megyn Kelly
Because you know how terrifying that is when you do that with something you need. Like you're like, oh, shit, I accidentally like forever deleted that.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Putting the Heat on GOP Senators ft. Megyn Kelly
That's what you do with those bad images because then you have that moment of like, oh, fuck, it's gone. And you're like, well, that's gone.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Putting the Heat on GOP Senators ft. Megyn Kelly
And research. And research jobs, yeah.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Putting the Heat on GOP Senators ft. Megyn Kelly
Yeah. I think you just kind of... It helps. Yeah. It really does. Because it's so, like... It's so clinical that it's an easy way to do it. If you can get your brain in that place to visualize that.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Putting the Heat on GOP Senators ft. Megyn Kelly
Yeah, it takes a minute to visualize that, but once you're able to visualize that, it is very helpful. So anybody out there, if you're having things that pop into your brain that, you know, whatever it may be, I'm not saying it will help you. I'm just saying if you can get yourself in that mindset that you can see that, like putting it into a trash or wiping it with a dry erase eraser. Go for it.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Putting the Heat on GOP Senators ft. Megyn Kelly
Yeah. See, yours is like, yours is very harrowing to me. That's harrowing. That's therapy, babe. Therapy's harrowing. Like, let yourself have the thought. No, thank you. Like, that's where I... No. Let yourself have the thought. No.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Putting the Heat on GOP Senators ft. Megyn Kelly
Isn't his name Berger? His last name is Berger and they call him Berger. I think his first name is John. Is it John? Now I need to look. You got to look it up really quick. Jack Berger. Oh, Jack. Which probably is John. Strangely, Jack is a nickname for John, even though they're the same amount of letters.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Putting the Heat on GOP Senators ft. Megyn Kelly
Yeah, get her the fuck away from this.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Putting the Heat on GOP Senators ft. Megyn Kelly
They don't want to trigger any memories.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Putting the Heat on GOP Senators ft. Megyn Kelly
But it shielded her emotionally from... what had happened.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Putting the Heat on GOP Senators ft. Megyn Kelly
She's able to speak about what she does remember now. I used the word harrowing before, but that's harrowing to do anyway. I thought you were going to use that word because it's perfect.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Putting the Heat on GOP Senators ft. Megyn Kelly
That sucks that that's the option. Yeah. You either traumatize this eight-year-old or, like, lose the case. Like, what... That sucks.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Putting the Heat on GOP Senators ft. Megyn Kelly
But honestly, it shouldn't take that. It shouldn't take that. It shouldn't take her sitting in front of you. Exactly. The facts are the facts.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Putting the Heat on GOP Senators ft. Megyn Kelly
This man abducted an 8-year-old and brutally assaulted and tried to murder her. Yep.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Putting the Heat on GOP Senators ft. Megyn Kelly
Of course, he can't attack children in there. So how does that even make any sense?
The Charlie Kirk Show
Putting the Heat on GOP Senators ft. Megyn Kelly
Yeah, he did everything that he had to do. He tracked him down all the way to New Hampshire. He was probably looking at this like he said. Like, we got him. We got him early. Something awful happened for him to be caught. But hopefully that's the end of it. And no more has to happen.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Putting the Heat on GOP Senators ft. Megyn Kelly
Imagine looking back on your wedding photos and being like, like those poor people, they're victims too. Yeah, like I'm like, what the fuck? Yeah.