Alaina
Appearances
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
I missed the first intake of Listener Tales because I typed everything out in my phone notes, then forgot to format and email it. ADHD, what are you going to do?
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
Yeah. It makes you feel fancy. I actually, these I got when I was pregnant with the twins. Yeah. Did you really? Yeah. Wow.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
All right, so let's start with lucid dreaming, because I'm very excited about this.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
I did the thing. I was dreaming, and I knew I was dreaming, because since I was five, most of my dreams have been lucid. By the way, sorry about my voice if it sounds a little off.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
It's a sick voice. I'm struggling with it, but I've been drinking tea.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
some scary old lady who's like i love that too though i sound like chandler bing's manager hell yeah no joey's i just started watching friends i dig that um so i was watching this woman standing in the sunlight she was dancing i suddenly remembered i needed to ask her the date and time so i blurted out hey do you know the date and time her serene face shifted abruptly and she stopped dancing the sunlight seemed to lose its shine and the woman began yelling and sprinting towards me
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
I know, which is wild. I think I would unbutton them. Yeah. And wear something under it and just be like. But they're so comfy. I love a silk.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
You bitch, why would you ask that? I was afraid, so I did the thing I usually do to wake up and counted to five. This time, however, instead of waking up, I shifted into another dream. In this dream, I was wandering up and down bright white stair classes. Stair classes. I realized that as I was... You can probably see my... I'm like, stair classes? That's not what that says. No.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
You wrote staircases. I said stair classes. Bright white staircases reminiscent of the topsy-turvy ones from the final scene in the labyrinth a la David Bowie. So you were meant to read this one? I was. I wasn't alone here either. There were people dressed completely in white, continuously traveling up and down the stairs.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
Their faces were blank with emotion, and as I'm typing, I can't recall their exact features. However, I was outnumbered 100 to 1. I've had many a weird dream in my life, but this is the first time I've been dropped into a dream that didn't have at least a point of familiarity.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
I was curious as to where these staircases would lead, so I assimilated myself into marching up and down the stairs, good for you, only to find myself on a staircase above more marching people dressed in white. There didn't seem to be an end to the stairs and I realized I must be stuck in a loop of sorts. It occurred to me that maybe this was my punishment for asking what the date and time was.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
That's really scary. So in typical me fashion, I decided, fuck this. I stopped in my tracks, turned around, looked at the blank faces of the matching pedestrians dressed in white and shouted, hey, what's the date and time? It was like a shock had gone through the crowd. The steady sound of marching ceased immediately.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
And just like the woman from before, the people dressed in white stopped dead in their tracks. 100 unrecognizable faces shot their eyes to me, faces contorting in rage. They opened their mouths and where the normal parts of the mouth should be, aka teeth, tongue, darkness of a throat, was a bright dark blue light and they were screaming.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
I found this out last night for the very first time ever. It's a situation.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
Yeah. Someone said, what that mouth do? Pretty much. And she said, I don't want to know.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
Yeah. Why? Because they're too cute on the outside. Well, probably fish bones too.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
And they got to like crush that fish as it goes.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
They didn't rush me this time, but the sound was deafening. This time, before I could try to wake up, I dream shifted again, and this time I was sitting at a desk opposite a man who kind of looked like a relatively famous actor I'm having trouble remembering the name of. Insert name here if I remember. Steve Valentine. I don't know if I know who that is. I'm going to look it up. I know.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
I need to know now. Let's find out. Worked it out after about a day of trying.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
He's got great teeth. He does. What that mouth do. Sum up, though. He's got mysteries in there.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
So as he was talking to me, it seemed like he was in the mid-sentence and was explaining something to me. It was like I had blacked out and was coming into the middle of a discussion. I was missing a piece of the conversation and came to his words, and that's why it's important not to ask the question. And this is in a quote. Now you have two options.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
Either you can have your normal dreams back and never ask the question again, or you can continue to ask the question but never have control over your dreams again." At the time, the choice was obvious. I occasionally have night terrors, so the ability to control my dreams is a necessary component of me acquiring a peaceful night's sleep.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
I picked to never ask the question again whilst dreaming, and then I woke up in my bed in a cold sweat with a searing headache. I pinched myself to make sure I was actually awake and thought about writing all this down in case I forgot in the morning. However, I decided the headache was bad enough that I didn't want to look at my phone screen.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
I lay there for a while contemplating what I could remember of what the man had said, quote, and that's why you can't ask the question. Don't tell anyone about what I have shared. Either you can have your dreams back or go back to the white staircases. I had to actively stop my brain from wanting to ask the question again after I fell asleep.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
But upon managing to keep the inquisitive side quiet, I had a normal dream of fighting zombies alongside friends that I haven't seen in a while. Hey, awesome. I should really hit them up and see how they are. Anyway, that's my experience of asking the dreaded question of what is the date and time while streaming.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
It was your podcast that gave me the idea to do so, and even though it was a comparatively harrowing experience, it was certainly interesting to see how my dreams reacted to it. I now have a migraine, so I'm going to sign off. Yours cautiously, Kat." Kat, that's terrifying. I've done that. And I had a similar experience where everyone was so mad at me.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
And then it shifted me out of that dream and into another one.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
Yeah. I haven't been able to super control my lucid dreaming when it happens.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
I want to. Jinx. I just bought a bunch of books about lucid dreaming.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
Probably not. No. I thought it was weird that it worked. I'm usually one that, like, I like to prove things wrong.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
And so when we had read those first ones about asking the date and time, I was like, okay, whatever. I don't know. Like, I'm going to try this. And I was like, when I tried it, I was shocked at the response and the feeling in the dream that I had.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
We haven't figured out how to figure it all out, man. You know? Yeah. Someday we'll figure out how to figure it up. Let's figure it out. Let's do that. Let's do it together. Yeah. So let's talk about demons. Demons. Demons. I don't want to do that because I'll cough. Careful. I want to start this off by saying I've always been sensitive. I love how many sensitive listeners we have. I know.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
I do, actually. I'm going through milk like it's insane. This is an Ashkel coffee creation. She brings me and Mikey every day.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
We have a lot of those. It makes sense. I can walk into a crowded room and tell if something is off. Same. When I was a kid, I had active conversations with shadows and was able to know if something bad was going to happen. I was obsessed with the supernatural and devoured literally anything remotely on the topic of ghosts, species, and magic. Elena? I can't do that.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
I also had a bad case of the night terrors. Me too. And slept with the light on constantly because although little me likes to think she didn't have the word fear in her vocabulary, she was actually a fearful little bean that couldn't get a full night's sleep to save her life. I was the same. As I grew older, I learned how to combat the bad dreams by waking myself up by counting to five.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
I have to pinch myself or move my fingers. I would often lay awake watching the shadows on my ceiling morph into various demonic shapes. This was after I had been shamed into sleeping with the light off because I was, quote, a big girl now. Side note, fuck you. The night is dark and full of terrors and I'll sleep with the light on if I want to.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
And I agree with you. Fuck that shit. I'm a big girl now. Shit. I will never say that to my kids. No. Because I am 39 years old. I have to sleep with the TV on. And I still need the TV on because of the light and like light murmuring sound that blows me into sleep.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
I like that. It freaks me out. I mean, hey. Yeah. You got to go with your gut.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
You think something's weird. You got to go with it. Yeah. No, I feel that. The girls have, like my kids have this like constellation light that's like the northern lights with like stars. It's so pretty. And it is every night. It has to stay on. And when I go up to bed after they've gone to bed, I go into the room just to like check on them. It's just like a habit. I have to do it.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
And then I always turn it off and turn it back on so that it won't cycle through and shut off in the middle of the night because they will wake up and be like, ah. So it's just like a habit now.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
I would use it. Yeah. But John doesn't like light. This is his actually. Yeah. Because he does not like light.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
Yeah, that's the thing. I need, I'm not a like bright light person at night. So like I can handle certain TV shows, but they have to be like calm.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
Yeah. Makes sense. You know? Anyway, this story takes place much more recently than I would have liked it to have taken place. This story begins with a mirror. Now, this mirror isn't the small spooky mirror from a horror movie with a gilded frame, but This mirror is the size of a fucking wall and resides in the bathroom I share with my partner and one of my flatmates.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
On this night, I was standing in front of the mirror on the damp tiled floor. I think I had gone to the bathroom half asleep and came to consciousness while washing my hands. Though the taps were turned off and my hands weren't wet, I was staring at my reflection or at least where my reflection should have been. Lillies are tough. Lillies are tough.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
I could even see the light in the hallway streaming in through the open door. But do you know what I couldn't see? Me. I was standing in the bathroom looking at a mirror that takes up the entire wall and my body was absent from its surface. How fucked is that? I can't even picture that.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
I looked over my shoulder to check that everything in the mirror was present in real life. That is when the dread set in. Cold fear tore its way through my core. Its icy tendrils clawing at my very being. You're an aspiring writer. Write the book.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
All at once I was aware of the presence behind me. Something was staring at me behind my back, watching me through the mirror. Sweat began to glisten my skin. My stomach flipped and I was frozen. Everything in me was screaming, don't turn around, don't turn around, don't turn around. And do you know what my dumb ass did? Turned around.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
and suddenly I found I was back in my bed drenched in cold sweat breathing heavily my partner soundly asleep beside me in a shadow with two long arms that ended in talons standing in the corner of our room I hate that I went to move but found my body bound by sleep paralysis oh god I don't know if you've ever experienced sleep paralysis, but it is one of the most awful experiences.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
I experienced it recently after a long bout of not experiencing it.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
And it was when I heard the kids screaming. Oh, yeah. I forgot you said that. It, like, fucked me up. For, like, two nights I couldn't sleep after that because what happened was I found – I woke up to hearing all three of my children in their room screaming my name. But not actually. No.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
And it wasn't real, but I was looking at my room, I was hearing their voices, I could see in the hallway, and I went to get up and I couldn't get up. And then I went to yell to John to get up and go get them, but I couldn't yell. And I was just laying in my bed, paralyzed, unable to scream, hearing my children screaming for me.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
And finally, I was able to do the thing where I was able to pinch the side of my leg and move my fingers. And I sat up and I was like, so I couldn't hear them anymore, but I darted into their room. All three of them are fast asleep. Completely asleep. Fast asleep. Everything was fine. John was asleep. And like everything was normal. I could not go back to sleep that night.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
It's scary. And when it happens in like your bed, oftentimes you see things in the room with you that you can't move away from. And they're like coming towards you.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
And like while it's happening, you're sitting there being like, oh my God, this is real. Like there's something in my room and I can't move. Like it's this weird like thing your brain does.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
It's one of the most awful experiences, I agree. Your mind is fully awake, but your body isn't aware that you are and is frozen. You feel trapped in the useless sack of meat that is your body. Your very being is claustrophobic as it is being reduced to dead weight.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
The only thing I know that can counteract this paralysis is to go kill Bill on the situation, wiggle your big toe, or in my case, move your pinky finger. I have to move my fingers. No. No. I sat up on my bed, legs to my chest, blanket clutched tightly to my chin, breathing as slowly as I could muster, trying to calm myself down. My partner woke up at this point due to the commotion.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
He told me it was okay and to go back to sleep. I turned the light off, but I couldn't shake the seeping terror. I ended up getting out of bed, going downstairs to the
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
i did a rough cleansing and once back in bed i managed my witchy for i messaged my witchy friends and told them everything that had happened after chatting with them for a while i'd calm down enough to attempt to go back to sleep now wouldn't it be great if the story ended there it would but unfortunately there ain't no west rest for the wicked as soon as i would settle down the dread would creep its way back in i could feel something watching me when i did finally get some sleep my dreams were a wash of nightmares that i don't fully remember
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
Fuck that. That day at work, I felt out of it, like I wasn't fully connected to my body. I was present, but going about my duties was excruciatingly difficult. I was ridiculously clumsy and found myself walking into door frames and tripping over my own feet.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
Yep. I ended up calling my witchy friend and she told me to come over. We all need as many witchy friends as we can possibly get. It's true. We have a great amount of witchy friends. We have wonderful witchy friends. I love our witchy friends. It's true. Love you. She came to the conclusion that I had been astral projecting in my sleep and my spirit wasn't fully back in my body.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
That, it's like, where were you? And where are you? In limbo. Like, that's scary. Where are you? Where are you? Soul. We did a grounding ritual, which involved my holding on to the biggest orb of crystal I'd ever seen in my life. Love it. Once done, I no longer had the airy weightlessness of feeling and felt much more attached to my body.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
We then made a cleansing slash banishing charm, which to this day is still under my bed. I still live in the same house this occurred in and occupy the same room. But thankfully, the only demons I see now are the ones that have been attached to my partner since childhood.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
talejo and anarek that's cool damn they're mostly chill damn i like they're mostly chill and usually just stare at me from the closet and protect us from the bad vibes oh i like them yeah hell yeah good for them they were absolutely no help with the demon that visited on that night though it seems they were afraid of it as much as i was apologies for the long story you shut up nope
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
Love you bad bitches to the moon and back. Thank you for sticking with me through this frankly long-winded yet slightly cathartic now that I've written it all down tale. It was not long-winded at all.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
Like Kat. You're a writer. Kat, can I call you Kat? Write the book or whatever it is that you want to write because you're great at it. And holy shit, you've had a lot of shit happen.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
Yeah, your spirit apparently leaves you in the day.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
I always love hearing when people love Listener Tales.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
That's a very good segue. And that's why we drink would say a segue. A segue. A segue into if you guys have like attached photos to your listener tales and you are cool with us sharing them on like socials to like add to the whole like story and everything, let us know in the listener tale which ones we're allowed to, which ones you're fine with. Or you can say none of these are. okay to share.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
For public consumption. Which is totally fine. You're not going to, we don't care. Either way, we totally get it. No, it's your bad. But sometimes when you have fun tales that like reference certain things, people are like, oh, I want to see that thing. Like that, you know, the picture of the scratches on the wall or like something like that. Or I want to see that cute little puppy.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
So if it's cool, just let us know. If not, let us know. And if you don't say anything, we will not share it.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
Because we'll just assume that it's not okay.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
But again, either way, it's okay. Just let us know so we can start sharing them if you're cool with it. Just like how we ask if we can use your name or not. You guys usually put that in there. Try to do it when you do pictures. Yeah, just so we're not sharing things that you want shared. And we'll never share something that you don't want shared.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
You're like, I don't have to do that. Does that ever happen to you? It happens to me all the time, but usually it's like an actual deadline. Oh fuck, I actually have to. Yeah. I have a lot of deadlines. Yeah.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
I'm obsessed with the fact that they were all just like, eat some fucking corn.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
Oh, wow. Isn't that insane? That is. I was waiting. I was like, don't tell me. Who's Raven? Don't tell me.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
It's frequent. Yeah. That like you get your husband or significant other into the show and they refer to us as The Girls.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
Well, I think we're going to end on Listener Tale Dreamtown, where I met my husband for the first time. This one's really cool. I'm obsessed with the idea of Dreamtowns.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
Attached for your consideration, I've included my tale of Dream World and how I met my husband there. If you decide to read this tale, you may use my first name. Heather. Heather. But please do not use any other names. I actually left out the names of others, but attach pics and info that have the names for your eyes only. Thank you.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
You were ahead of the whole thing. All right, it says, Listener Tale, follow up to Listener Tale, Dreamtown. I met my husband when we were children in the astral world, only to meet up when we were adults in this world, thousands of miles from our childhood hometowns. Isn't that fucking crazy? Whoa, that's crazy.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
It says, hello, Ash and Elena, starting with the obligatory gushing over how fantastic you both are and that you do. You are both fantastic. Listening to Morbid genuinely feels like sitting around talking with my besties about all things morbid and whimsical.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
It really is. So please keep doing what you do and always wishing you both the best of success in all that you do across all your lifetimes. Thank you. Love you guys. Well, let's get into it. I am a half century old weird witch freak artist healer medium. I'm obsessed with you. Love. And lover of the ocean, nature, and animals.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
Anywho, I was struck by your listener tale 85 in which a listener talked about her experience with astral projection and the tree in the meadow in Dreamtown. I was obsessed with that one.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
Yeah, that changed me. I've been there and met others there, some of whom I ended up meeting in this world, including the boy who would become a man who would eventually become my husband. Fucking beautiful. I'm literally like whooming.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
Womb. Womb. Yeah. The meadow with the weeping willow with the orbs of light and how magical the other world is. That is where we met. Yeah. Being able to move through the astral world and being able to shift and change things in this world is one of the greatest and freeing experiences. It reminds me of where we go between lifetimes, and it's one of my favorite places to be.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
One can fly there, move with ease like floating, swim like a mermaid, and all the laws of physics as we know it do not seem to exist.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
Let me get back up a bit and give you some context. The bulk of my most vivid astral experiences happened in my youth, teens, and early adult life. I'm guessing I come from a long line of witches, mystics, or something weird. I've been a weirdo for as long as I can recall. Ooh, ooh. And well before I even knew weirdos existed.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
I've been able to see and talk with dead people before I could talk with living people. I've been lucid dreamer for as long as I can remember. And well before I even knew there was a term for it. I remember that too. I didn't know before I knew there was a term for it. I was like, it's weird. I can do this thing. I always used to like say like, oh, like some dreams I can control.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
Like I have a decision in my dreams. Yeah. Yeah. I have also spent much of my life having weekly, sometimes daily predictions. Everything from small acts or behaviors of another person to huge events like the tsunami in 2004 in the Indian Ocean.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
Another tale for another time. That's wild. Okay, here's my tale. My husband and I met in the astral world when we were children. He lived on the east coast and I on the west coast. We were kids and would meet up in the meadow with the willow tree and I loved him instantly. Oh. We did not know each other in the physical world. We would fly, run, laugh, and play. We were about 10 to 12 years old.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
When the time would come to wake up, I hated it. I hated leaving the astral world. I hated leaving him. He would tell me not to worry because we would know each other again and for always. Ruin me. Literally ruin me. One of the times when we met by the tree, he tried to give me his phone number and would try to tell me where he lived in the physical world.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
It was always so hard to understand each other when we tried to talk of the physical world. Like our voices would get drowned out in a sudden roar of wind. Or one of us would just disappear slash wake up. Each time we tried to talk about finding each other in the physical world, the astral world would feel heavy and grow darker, less fun.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
What would end up being one of the last times we would see each other in the astral world, he had me memorize his phone number, a landline as cell phones were not a thing yet. I know I'm ancient. Girl, I feel it. The world would shift and turn heavy slash darker when we would try to talk about how to find each other in the physical world.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
So it was really hard to remember his number, but I was determined. I woke up with a body-wide jerk, like when you're falling in a dream and you jerk yourself awake. I hate that feeling. And I instantly wrote the number down. I was shocked and exhilarated all at the same time. I knew he was real. We could never remember each other's names when we woke up, but I remembered the number.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
I love it. the scribbled number on a scrap of paper sat on my desk for days as i was afraid to call it it felt like we broke a major rule and somehow we would get in trouble but i called it on a weekend and my heart raced my mouth went dry and felt like a bowling ball was in my stomach it rang several times before a woman answered with a bit of a southern accent
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
I tried to speak, but fuck, I didn't know this kid's name, so what was I supposed to say? Um, hello? I'm a girl who's been visiting with a boy in an astral world. Um, is there a boy that lives there? Yes. Yeah, I hung up. But I saved the number. My visits in the astral world came and went, and sometimes we would see each other, and I tried to tell him I called.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
He said, I know, and don't worry, we'll be together. Life went on and astral projection is something that has always been a part of my existence. So want to know how and when we meet in the physical world? Of course I do. Well, I will write more another time. Just kidding. I was like, no.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
I was like, you bitch. No. You bitch. Now you know how it feels when you end a multi-part episode on a cliffhanger. That's when Heather's yelling at us, you bitch. Fuck. So fast forward 12 to 13-ish years. That's so funny. I'm now in my 20s, living in the PNW, attending university, Pacific Northwest, living near campus in a historically restored apartment building I saw him.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
There he was, living in a bottom floor flat. I would have to pass by his window upon entering the building. He and his housemate often had the window open during the spring and summer months as they played their guitars, singing, smoking the devil's lettuce, and living the good life. Right. Right.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
As my friends and I started hanging out and getting to know these fly boys, it became more and more clear to me that we knew each other. But he ignored me. I was devastated. I was so attracted to him on a soul level. I once told my friend at the time, I'm going to have that man's babies. She turned and said, just his babies? No marriage? I just gave him a knowing smile.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
Fast forwarding a bit, he finally began noticing me and talking with me. And next thing you know, we're dating. Ah! I did straight up ask at some point, what changed? Why are you paying attention now? He replied, bro code. I was like, what the fuck does that mean? He explained that his flatmate called dibs.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
I should have been horrified that I was being seen as a possession, but I was kind of flattered. I get it. It was the 1990s, way back in the 1990s. You know, we were not as woke then. Once it was painfully clear I wanted nothing to do with his cringy flatmate, the bro code was dissolved. Yeah.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
Well, as my future husband and I grew closer and closer, we shared about finding each other all those years before in the astral world. It was an incredible night as we snuggled up as a massive storm rained down and begins sharing and remembering our otherworldly time together. This is like a movie.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
I love it so. As we were talking, I got up, walked to my keepsake box, and showed him the telephone number. Stop it. It was his grandmother's number. Stop it. I love. All over. I love love. All over. My future husband was born and raised on the East Coast. Hell yeah. And was in part raised by his grandparents. Hell. And that is the number he gave me all those years before in the astral worlds.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
We locked eyes and we knew. We found each other across space and time. Fucking stop. I'm just like, I can't. Stop. I cannot. Fast forward to the present. My beloved husband. Oh, this is going to.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
Oh, this destroys me. I know. I'm so sorry.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
Fast forward to the present. My beloved husband was killed 10 years ago. Vehicular manslaughter. Leaving me to raise our babies alone. I'm going to cry. I know. I always knew I would have his babies. And I always knew our time together would be way too short. He knew it too.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
But we also knew that we could find each other. I'm going to literally cry. It's going to happen on camera. We also knew we can find each other across time and space and across lifetimes. It's important to know that my husband and I, in our nearly 15 years together, came to discover that we remembered multiple lifetimes together. I'm sorry.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
And yes, I knew when he walked out the door on that fateful day he died that he wasn't coming home. He knew it too. Since his death, I've been blessed with his visits and his signs to remind me that we are never that far apart. Oh, fuck. This is fucking me up. I know. I just keep thinking of John.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
This is like my worst fear. I know. I know. That's not going to happen. That we are never far apart and that we will always find one another across time, across space and lifetimes. Ash, the way you speak of your love, Drew, reminds me of my love. Thank you for that. Stay weird and remember our time here is beyond our control.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
Make the most of your moments and remember what is real is the love we create, the love we share and love we become. Damn, I, like, needed that, I think.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
Like, damn. Thank you again for what you beautiful souls do. Thank you for what you beautiful souls do.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
You bring light to the world by telling the stories of the dead, of the strange and the unexplainable, and those without a voice. Below are some photos. Shh. No names, but my own pleas if you decide to read this on the pod.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
You just destroyed me, Heather. And that was... Gorgeous.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
And I don't cry. That's a big deal. You just got me to cry. That's huge.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
Yeah, and to hear it is, like, really shocking and humbling and awesome. And we're very grateful for you. Yeah, thank you.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
That happened in a very small, like, not like this. But the other day when somebody came here. Oh, yeah. And something happened. Like, so somebody came here and they went to sit in the wrong seat to record. Yep. And I had had a dream the night before that that was going to happen.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
And I was like, so when it happened, I was like, that was weird.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
Fuego. I love pajamas. You know what we should do? Maybe we'll do this. Because dressing up is fun. And I know you guys love the themes.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
The fact that she just snuggled you, I'm going to cry.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
And you like it. So maybe we'll do that. But every few, we do a slumber party.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
Let's see. I'm going to do Listener Tales, Lucid Dreams, and Diamonds. Diamonds. Diamonds. Let me bring her up. Oh, we got two. This is a twofer. Oh, this is a twofer. Mm-hmm. Should we start? Let's start with Lucid Dreams. Yeah. Let's do that. All right. So let's see. Hello from the land down under. Well, the land under the land down under. You almost got me there. Or New Zealand. Our Tararoa.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
Yeah. Love. We'll figure out the cadence of that. Yeah. You know what? You'll just get it. I don't know.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
I did it. For clarity. Thank you so much for that phonetic spelling. My name is Caitlin. Feel free to use it there. There are a multitude of us there and even more ways of spelling it. I have ADHD and I am a Virgo. A dichotomy I am well aware makes for a sporadic and tumultuous relationship. So please bear with me as I first gush over how much I love you guys. I love you. We love you.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
I first came across you ghoulies whilst my friend Queeva. Oh, I like that. Isn't that a pretty name? The way that's spelled, it's C-A-O-I-M-H-E, but pronounced Queeva. It's like Siobhan, how that's spelled like- Siobhan.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
Yeah, I love that. Very pretty. So Cuiva and I were sharing back and forth different true crime podcasts. Cuiva put you on my radar and I've never looked back. Cuiva, Cuiva, Cuiva. You made my job at the time, data entry, not only bearable, but something I could look forward to as I got to hang out with your banter and listen to whatever ghastly tale you had prepared for the day.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
Ash, I too have many souls. My accent will change randomly while I'm speaking. I love that about both of you.
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
you thank you most often i will claim the accent of the person i am talking to and have to stop mid-sentence to apologize and proclaim i promise i'm not mocking you i've just stolen your accent that has happened to me before i love that yep apparently as is the side effect of adhd at masking masking i i feel that but that doesn't explain why i randomly go irish english or russian with no prompting when i've had a few to drink i like the souls elena i loved the butcher and the rent thank you
Morbid
Episode 649: Listener Tales 95: Sleepover Edition
And from one aspiring author to another, you are beyond amazing for finishing one hell of a book. Thank you so much. Now two. Yeah, hell yeah. It was gripping and spooky in all the right ways. Please find attached a size 12 double-spaced puttafa of my spooky experience with astral projection and a diamond. Diamond. And the time I asked the forbidden question while streaming. Yes, I did that.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
Hey weirdos, Elena here. If you're looking to kick back and relax with Morbid, Wondery Plus is the way to go. It's like having a cozy seat in our haunted mansion. No ads, just you and early access to new episodes. You can join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or in Apple Podcasts or Spotify.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
Definitely. I remember hearing that song for the first time and being like, what is this?
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
If we'll go with you for murder, the sky's the limit.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
And I think now we can go into dancing plagues. Yes. You know, quite the transition. Because, you know, music, dancing. You do a lot of dancing on stage. I love to dance. It's part of the whole thing.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
So we're going to talk about dancing plagues, and we're also going to talk about a couple of nunneries that just had some stuff going on that I thought was pretty hysteria is kind of where we're going.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
So we're going to start way back. This was on Christmas Eve in 1021 CE. Oh, shit. Way back. This is where it begins. So this small German town called Kolbigt. I looked up all these pronunciations, so don't come for me. No, you always kill the pronunciations. I try. Sometimes I kill it the other way. So 18 of the town's residents gathered outside of the church and started dancing.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
Just started dancing and carrying on with wild abandon. And the noise from these dancers made it impossible for the priest to deliver mass. So he went outside and he started to reprimand the group. And they were just seeming completely oblivious to him. Like it wasn't like they were ignoring him. They just like didn't even know he was there. Just kept going.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
And rather than heed the priest's words, which at that time people would heed that priest's words. Yeah, you had to. They just continued dancing and clapping and leaping. And they were forming what would later be documented to be called a ring dance of sin. Oh, obsessed. Which I kind of love.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
Where do I sign up for the ring dance of sin? So according to the legend, the priest, who was very angry, very incensed about the interruption and disrespect, quite frankly, cursed them all to dance for the entire year, and none of them were able to regain control of their bodies until the following Christmas. What? Wait, the priest did this? Which I didn't realize priests could curse people.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
He was like, oh, you want to dance? You're going to dance until next Christmas. Yeah. Wow. And they did. And by the time the curse was ended, the group was exhausted and reportedly fell into a deep sleep. And a lot of them never woke up from that deep sleep. So they died. So he just straight up killed some of them.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
None of that. In fact, many of these dancing plagues, food, bathroom breaks, sleep, don't happen. They just dance through it, and that's how most of them die. There's deaths that come out of these. Are they just peeing all over themselves?
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
It's reckless. Whatever is happening there...
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
I guess so. Or they would join, I think, maybe. Others would join. So given, you know, how old the story is, obviously, I'm sure there's been some embellishments. Yeah. But according to historian John Waller, there was nothing in the story that medieval people found hard to believe. Right. They're like, yeah, whatever. Yeah, people probably would dance themselves for a year to death.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
Because it was a society that was very accustomed to assigning supernatural explanations to literally anything they couldn't understand. So the idea of such crazy behavior being the result of a curse from a holy man was like, yeah. Obviously. Yeah. That's what happened. And as he points out, plenty of sources indicate that this obscure chronicler may have embellished a real event.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
So there was truth to this. Basically, the details might have been a little bit exaggerated, but that like manic and like uncontrollable dance that they were doing probably happened because it has happened.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
So this was kind of the beginning of like dancing plagues being documented. Yeah. Now, 200 years later, in a German town of Erfurt, looked it up, a similarly crazy and bizarre outbreak of dancing mania broke out in 1247. So this time, at least 200 people are said to have gathered on a bridge. Oh, wow. And it was over the Moselle River in Maastricht, where they danced until the bridge collapsed.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
Stop it. And all of them died. It said, rocket till the wheels fall off.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
And then they died. That was it. Bridge collapsed. Everyone died. That was it. And then there's, so that happened.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
It doesn't say how long, but I feel like it probably wasn't that long, because 200 people on a bridge. That's a lot of people. I don't think the structural integrity of bridges in 1247 was, like, something of note. Not quite the same as today. So I'm assuming they all just went down. But there is a second version of this story, so there is, like, a little wiggle room. Okay.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
So this one, in this version of the story, the same thing happened, except everyone didn't die. People died, but there were survivors. And people say that some of those survivors were taken to a nearby chapel. Where they kept insects.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
And this nearby chapel was dedicated to St. Vitus, which, or Vitus, excuse me, where these people received treatment for their quote unquote mania. And many of them were restored to full health. So they said they went to the specific chapel and that's what cured them. And they never danced again. Never danced again.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
Flash mob gone horribly wrong. And then a chapel was able to heal any of the survivors. And St. Vitus comes up a few times. Yeah.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
Apparently, he has something to do with dance. He has something to do with this, and he gets brought up a lot. Because the dancing madness actually gets translated into being called St. Vitus dance.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
Is he a patron saint of anything? Hold on. Let's look. Wait a second. I'm excited for this. Because he comes up a lot. Is he a patron saint of standing still?
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
Exactly. Didn't help them. Now, it's from this like second telling of that story that the affliction got the name Koros Mania, which is Greek and it translates to dancing madness. And now it's more well known as Saint Vitus Dance. So he gets to be named in the affliction. That's fun. Yeah.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
Now over time, the terminology would change a little bit, but the behavior would end up being called chorea, which is an actual disorder. And it's incorrectly that, like referred to as that, because this disorder, chorea, is a disorder of the central nervous system that causes like irregular, like brief jerking moment, like movements, but it's not dancing. Like it's just- They meant choreo.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
Yeah, it's just, they meant choreo and then chorea is not that.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
So if you ever hear somebody say it, you correct them if you ever hear them saying it. I'm sure it comes up a lot.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
So these two early examples were contained to Germany. But a similar form of hysteria that kind of had similar symptoms to it was known as Tarentism, and it emerged in the 13th century in Italy. And according to Robert Bartholomew, which I am obsessed with the name Bartholomew. Same, I love it a lot. Why isn't it used anymore? I don't know.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
He said, people asleep or awake would suddenly jump up, feeling an acute pain like the sting of a bee. Some saw the spider, others did not, but they knew that it must be from the tarantula. Like capital T, the spider? The spider. Okay, not a spider. Nope. The spider. The only spider. The only spider. They ran out of the house into the street to the marketplace dancing in great excitement.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
Soon they were joined who like them had been bitten or by people who had been stung in previous years for the disease was never quite cured. The poison remained in the body and reactivated every year in the heat of the summer.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
Let's make it happen. Let's make it. Flash mobs are actually this. Yeah, pretty much.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
And it happens in the heat of summer. I like that it reactivates in the heat of the summer. Yeah. Like summer, we're going to get crazy with it. Like let's party. Yeah. Makes sense. And it's called tarantism. And it's most often girls and young women are afflicted. Probably because they're like hysteria. Am I right? Yeah.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
i'm so random yeah uh and that's when it got labeled hysteria when they were like oh girls and young women get it yeah hysteria uh like the dancing plagues there was no identifiable cause of the tarantism because like a tarantula bite doesn't cause this so like there's no reason for this but they just believed it to be like a mass like psychogenic illness which is even scarier yeah a little bit it's
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
In the end, that kind of is what it feels like it is.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
Like a way better version. A much better version. Way better. Yeah. So the early instances of the dancing plagues were pretty limited in size and scope. And they were, again, like limited to specific locations. But then came 1374, y'all. An outbreak of dancing mania started in a German city of Aachen, I believe it is. And it eventually spread to other cities outside of Germany. So it's happening.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
Some of them were, and then some of them would start at the end of the next one, and it was just like a continuous thing. Yeah, like a wave in a stadium. The outbreak of 1374, sometimes referred to as St. John's Dance, began like the others. So it was like a small group... forming a circle in the town square, starting to dance with each other.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
But the thing that keeps happening with these is they start to dance and it's like fine. And then they get more frenzied and it just like loses all control. And that's what they lose control of their senses. They don't care who's near them. They are like whirling around, like looking like they're in like a state of just like ecstasy. Like it's like a trance.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
You're like, I had this. That was it. Some would dance for hours. Some would dance for days at a time, not stopping. Not stopping to eat, drink, sleep, piss, anything. Damn. So there's the answer.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
And when they did finally stop, the dancers all spoke of some undeniable compulsion to dance. And then they would complain of extreme oppression and groaned as if in the agonies of death. What? And then they would groan until they were swathed in clothes bound tightly around their waists.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
It's a lot. It is. You know? You need one of those little rollerball things.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
Or that little machine we have that can like get a tight muscle out. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So a short time later, the dancers' pain would subside because they would get the rollerball or do whatever they needed to do. When they finished Zumba. And they remained pain-free until the next compulsion came over them, and then it would keep happening.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
Like, they would go through periods of time where they were fine, and then they'd just start dancing a fool again. Oh, no.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
I think they were in like a trance. So I don't think they could even remember. They didn't know. They just felt the pain afterwards. Damn. Which sucks. Yeah. But within a few weeks, that plague, the St. John's dance plague, had spread to Liege, Utrecht, and Tongres. Those places. Those places. And then further out to towns in Belgium and the Netherlands. Wow.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
And it worked out. Yeah, I think. Yeah, we're all thankful for that.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
And according to one account, they danced together ceaselessly for hours or days and in wild delirium. The dancers collapsed and fell to the ground exhausted, groaning and sighing as if in the agonies of death. And many later claimed that they had seen, this is literally my favorite thing I've ever heard, by the way. I'm so excited.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
Many of them claimed that they had seen the walls of heaven split open and that Jesus and the Virgin Mary had appeared before them. Were they dancing? Were Jesus and Mary dancing?
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
But the walls of heaven split open during this dancing session.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
They're like, Jesus and Mary are over here. They came in. They're like, let's go. They're joining the ring of sin, whatever it was.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
That's how fun math starts. Jesus and Mary are here, you say?
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
So for the next hundred years, people in Germany and surrounding countries would periodically fall into these trances and manias.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
Yeah. In 1491, this is literally my favorite thing ever, by the way. In 1491, several residents of a nunnery, here we go, in the Habsburg Netherlands were overcome with the compulsion to dance. But this time, it wasn't just dancing. So there were some that just like were getting their groove on. And then they would also be accompanied by instances of none. Hold on to your habits. Oh no.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
They would climb trees and behave like cats. What? And they would all meow together.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
Climbing up trees. in a full habit like that's all i'm thinking of is like full nun gear just like lifting a tree just be like i love it um also in this delirium it gets it gets racy because they would sexually proposition the pretty good iconic and then it got better Because the priests were like, no, no. And they would call exorcists to be like, clearly this demon's afoot.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
And when the exorcists would come, the nuns would sexually proposition the exorcist. Stop. I'm obsessed with it. I don't know why I love it so much. Let them live. Let them live. Yeah. Like... And like the people in 11th century Germany, the nun's affliction was believed to be a curse, obviously, brought by St. Vitus.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
And it was apparently supposed to be in response to the supposed moral laxity and split from the church of the period.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
Here it comes. So that's what that – and I guess other supernatural suspects in the case that were brought up were St. John the Baptist, demons as a whole. Of course. Any demon will do. The hierarchy of demons. And Satan himself. Oh, shit. Which apparently some of the nuns, while they were sexually propositioning the priests and the exorcists and not getting any – they were getting pushback.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
They were like, well, that's fine because I have also fucked Satan. Whoa.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
Yeah, they were literally, I don't, probably not like that. Not exactly.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
Maybe. They've had relations with the devil.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
Basically. Yeah, so they were claiming it. Like, let's go, girls.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
That's a great question. I don't think they were exiled.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
But perhaps they were. I feel like when you said you fucked the devil, I feel like that's your time to step out. Skirt out.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
I don't think they're going to find a new path in life. Yeah. I don't think you get like, this is one strike. Yeah. That kind of thing. Now, in the 15th century in German, this is another nunnery because this is awesome. Yeah. One nun started biting the others. Was she dancing first? No dancing involved.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
She was not one of the cat nuns. This is a different nunnery. So she starts biting the other nuns. And then they were all like, wow, that sucks. Like, don't do that. And then after a while...
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
direct quote on the record that sucks stop doing that and then one of them was like well i guess i'll just bite you back which like i care yeah like if she's still biting don't bite me bite her back yeah and one of them bit her back and then they all started biting each other and then they were just rapidly biting you like all of them just started biting each other biting the priests
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
I feel like dancing may not have been a part of this one. It might have just been a biting scenario.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
But it would be really funny to think of them dancing and biting. Get their groove on. And every once in a while the beat drops and they bite someone. The beat drops. Yeah. Yeah, so then word spread about this affliction because people were like, whoa, have you heard of this? These nuns go crazy. And the affliction started spreading.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
Yeah, now the biting one's going. We got a lot going on. Apparently nunneries in Saxenburg and Brendenburg, you know, Holland, now even Rome. Whoa. All biting each other. And biting the priests. And meowing. And meowing. There was meowing as well. Awesome. And it only stopped, and this is literally documented, it says it only stopped because they got exhausted. Exhausted of biting each other?
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
I wonder how long. I know. How long can you bite someone? I don't know. Write in. More for podcasts at gmail.com. Yeah, let us know. Do an experiment.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
We're responsible. Now, by far the most notorious of the dancing plagues occurred in Strasbourg, France in July 1518. This is the one that a lot of people know about. Okay. The event began pretty innocuously. It was just a single older woman dancing. just going into the streets, into the city center. Her name was Frau Trofea, I think is what I say it. That's how I say it.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
She just walked out and she was like, let's do this. And she just started dancing. She said, let's dance. Let's go. Yeah, she used to David Bowie before David Bowie. Hell yeah. That's where David Bowie came from. He came from a dancing play. A nunnery of dancing. Yeah, a dancing play in a nunnery. Canon. That is where David Bowie came from. He came from a dancing play. It was Frau.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
So by mid-August, and she wouldn't stop, of course, because that's how these work. She had a plague. By mid-August, hundreds of people had joined her in the town square. Again, a flash mob. All of them uncontrollable. And like the previous ones, the dancers in Strasburg never stopped to eat, never stopped to drink, sleep, nothing.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
Not long after the mania began, quote, as many as 15 people a day dropped dead. Oh, my God.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
It's like real plague or dancing plague.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
And they just kept going. So people would be dropping dead and they were still dancing. It's not like they stopped and were like, pause, like, let's get this one out. Nope. They just danced. People dropping. Wow. Yeah. Yeah.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
And unlike many of the earlier dancing plagues, which were recounted a lot, like they would kind of change over time, like folklore, this one, this particular one in 1518, was very well documented. Like it's a real event that is very documented. It's appeared in everything from historical text, news accounts, church and medical documents. It's like in a lot of things.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
And according to many of these documents, the woman who started the plague was brought to a church devoted to... Can we guess? St. Vincent. St. Vitus. Oh, Vitus. My bad. Maybe St.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
Who knows? A few days after she started dancing, they were brought, she was brought to a church devoted to him and she was cured.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
They're trying to chop the head off the snake and see if it all falls.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
Yeah, maybe if Frau stops. No, they all just kept going. Because in the days after that, others started joining more even. As soon as her absence was felt, they were like, we need to beef this up. Let's dance for her. So in order to curtail the mania, the city forbade musicians to perform publicly. Aw, boo. Which, like, lame. That sucks. Yeah. Kind of a killjoy.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
And eventually started taking the dancers one by one to the St. Vitus Church to get treatment. And no matter how quickly they removed the dancers off the streets to St. Vitus' church there, they were just replaced by new dancers. People would just show up. It's like one leaves, five more come. Yeah. They had alternates.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
Something Morbid was my thing in high school. Really? I love that. 16-year-old Elena. Yeah, 16-year-old Elena was at every show, every single show.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
Yeah. Oh, yeah. Let's go. Yeah. I know. They were like, we can really get big here. This is our spot. They're like running around the dancers being like, listen to my demo. Get a record deal out here. Now, in the decades and centuries that followed this, dancing plagues continued across Europe with significant events occurring in the 16th and 17th centuries in Switzerland and Italy.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
And there hasn't been, like, a really documented case of dancing mania in a lot of centuries. But Tarentism, which is, like, thought to be kind of similar, has been documented in Italy as recently as the 1950s. Oh, shit. So...
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
Yeah, it is kind of dancing, but it's like a little different because they claim it's from a spider. Okay. Like you get bit by a tarantula, which I didn't even know they had tarantulas in Italy. That was news to me. I don't think I knew that either. I don't know where I thought tarantulas were. Australia. I think everything's in Australia.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
Just write it on their Yelp page. So were they in the house?
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
No. I'd just start crying and never stop. Yeah. That's the thing. I don't cry easily. No, you don't. I would start sobbing uncontrollably if I saw a tarantula.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
I cry easily. And in my house, I'd never sleep in there again.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
That's in Australia, the huntsman spiders. My TikTok has figured out that I hate them, but that I will watch a whole video about one. So it just keeps giving me huntsman spider videos. And apparently you can hear huntsmans walking down the hall. They're so big. And I was like, that's all I need to know. I can't ever go to Australia.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
Ever. I die. And people have like house huntsmans where they're just like, oh, that's just like Leroy. he just lives here he takes care of the bugs i'm like who takes care of him though like who he's lawless you get like you're like he takes care of like the mosquitoes i'm like i what i'd rather get bit by a mosquito but like i can't you can't look like that no Oh, I can't.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
Spooky. So, yeah, if you ever want that, go to Joshua Tree, apparently, during their mating season. Yeah. Now, people obviously blamed all these manias on either the spider or the devil and other supernatural shit for all the dancing plagues. But lots of religious intervention was obviously brought in to treat them. Yeah. You know, exorcisms and the like.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
And in cases where the dancers... This is interesting. So... Because this is kind of very like regional. So it's like they would do these things where it's like the treatments for it were very regional to what they were thinking or believing in that place. But when the dancers were foreign, like not of that area, the regional cultural differences would uphold the belief in demonic possession.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
So like... it would always go back to demonic possession. But according to Robert Bartholomew, quote, the behavior of these dancers was described as strange because while exhibiting actions that were part of the Christian tradition, other elements were foreign. And he points to one account that says, in their songs they uttered the names of devils never before heard of, this strange sect.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
So how would you know what they were? So it's like... What? So how do you know they're devils, too? Maybe they're gods. Maybe they're angels. Yeah. Maybe they're friends.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
Several devils have to be a part of it. Now, demonic possession was really the main suspect in the beginning. But in later plagues, the cause of the mania would often be attributed, because obviously we hear it in the nunnery, it would be attributed to immorality and sin. Particularly those in which the dances were overtly sexual or predominantly performed by... Women!
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
One description read, they indulged in disgraceful immodesty for many women during the shameful dance and mock bridal singing, bared their bosoms while others of their own accord offered their virtue. Oh, honey. So now these ladies are out there just being like, coming at us. Spruing in the streets. Show an ankle. Damn, show an ankle.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
It's like, do you want to hold my hand and dance? And they're like, holy shit. You got to get inside, girl. You got to a nunnery where you can start meowing and propositioning priests.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
Now, in later years, such as the dancing plague in Strasbourg, like the really famous one, the events were frequently kind of attributed to madness and hysteria as a whole, especially when they were begun, again, by girls or women.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
Historian John Waller says that there is considerable evidence that suggests the dancing plagues and the possession epidemics of Europe's nunneries were in fact classic instances of a very different phenomenon, mass psychogenic illness, which is way scarier to me.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
yeah i don't love that like if you're telling me the devil came and made me dance i'm like that's fun like that happens but like mass psychogenic illness what is that so what's the definition of psychogenic illness so that's really like where the term mass hysteria comes from where they can't pinpoint it it's like in the salem witch trials they tried to blame it on like ergot poisoning like fungus on the on the wheat wheat essentially
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
And that causes, you know, some kind of food poisoning that leads to this like wild illness that everybody just. Like psychosis. You're hallucinating or something. Yeah. I think it's like groupthink. Like I think it's really just you've seen instances of it where like you can get people to do insane things if you just make it a group effort.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
And in the majority of cases of dancing plagues, the years we were touching upon this before, the years immediately preceding the events were usually pretty harsh. There was famine, natural disasters, social and political upheaval. In the case of Strasbourg, there was a little thing called the Black Plague that was right before it. Right, right.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
So it can be viewed as kind of like an extreme reaction of like stress relief, like a reaction to trauma.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
So we're all going to start dancing soon. Like, you know, you can play the piano or you can start dancing uncontrollably for years at a time. Yeah. Whatever works for you. Whatever you feel. Report back. Let us know. But yeah, that's my little dance into mass hysteria.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
That's the mic drop at the end. But yeah, so if you start dancing in the streets, people might start joining you and then you could all die together. Yeah. Don't take it to a bridge. There's that.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
Yeah, they did. That's what makes it so funny. They're like, well, women started it.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
Yeah, we just get blamed. Shut up. Yeah. And I don't even think it was always women who started it. I think it was just like, there was a lot of women dancing.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
It's either the devil, ladies, or a combination of both. And then in the nunneries, obviously, it was all ladies. And the devil. And the devil, yeah. Of course. They were having relations with the devil.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
Like, especially in the nunnery scenario, I'm like, I think they just got bored. And then they were like, let's see what we can get out of these priests. Yeah. Let's climb a tree. Let's break some vows. I'm sure there were some hot priests back then. So they were probably like, let's see if we can break some vows. Yeah. Stroke the ego a little bit.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
When that didn't work, they were like, bring on the exorcist. Let's see. Have a little fun. Yeah. And then they just gave it up.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
It's the easiest way to leave the country, I would say. That's how I get out of most social situations. Exactly. If I don't want to be there.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
He's a good representation of Gen Z. Yeah.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
I would definitely rather ghost. Because whispering would drive, I am very, like you know. You have misophonia. I get very annoyed with certain sounds over and over again. So that would piss me off. It's hard to even eat lunch in here. I would just be like, shut up.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
Ooh, constant whispering I think would make me crazy.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
But seeing a ghost every now and then would just be like, oh, hey. Yeah. You'd never feel alone. Yeah, there you go. Perfect. You could tell them the big events in your life.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
Rearranging my house every night would send me into orbit. Nope. I'm a, like, comfort creature.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
That would annoy the... And I'm a control freak.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
Waking up to having my house rearranged every morning would... With no sign off. But another dimension? Let's go.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
That helped the feng shui. Excited to see what you do tomorrow. No, still, even that wouldn't work for me. I'm too much of a control freak. I'm sticking with it. I believe in you.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
That's the, I've always want, like, every time I read a book, I'm always like, like, take me with you.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
Like, I just want to jump into the book. But now I'm thinking about it and I'm like, that's true. That would be a long, a long time.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
I'd like to pick and choose which books. Definitely choosing the books. Yeah. If I'm jumping into every book I read, then that's a problem.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
It's a hard choice. I think it's the, I'm going to go with yours. The time crunch is what, if I know I have a finite time. All right. That'll make me feel better. I like an out.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
Don't worry, everybody. You're like, it's fine. Don't worry. Yeah, that's a hard one. I think the only, like, because again, I've always wanted to jump into a book. Yes. I love books.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
But again, it's the time. I get that. Because I'm also that way with like, like everybody who listens knows I like, I'm not good in social situations.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
Going out, but like add a social situation out. I always like to know. Yeah.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
Yeah, I'm not jumping into like a Harry Potter movie.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
Yeah, exactly. Or I probably would jump into a Harry Potter movie actually. That sounds awesome. I'd jump in all of them. Let's go. Yeah, I love that. That cemented it for me.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
And the sun was like, I'll come out for you. Welcome to Boston. Because we have not had sun for weeks at this point. Yeah, it's been dark. Yeah. The sun doesn't like me. Very much. Sounds like you don't like it either. And I don't like it. We have like a mutual disrespect for each other. Yeah, I'm way too pale for the sun. Yeah. I don't do well in it. Alina carries around a parasol in the summer.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
Yeah. Really? Like a goth girl parasol. I do not want to get burned. I don't want, and I don't want wrinkles. Yes, and you're good. You know, we have a mutual disrespect.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
I know I should. I like that idea. I also like a big wide brimmed hat. Yeah. Yeah.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
I got it. You also feel like you're in like another era when you carry around a parasol.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
Like, as soon as here. I don't like hot. I don't like hot. Like, here, it's like as soon as it gets in the 60s, I'm like, this is my perfect weather.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
Like, I can live in the 60s fall all day. Yeah. Like, I like that kind of sun. I feel like in the fall, it's like a muted sun. Yeah. It has a different vibe to it. I don't know how to explain it. No, I get that. And then as soon as it gets in the summer, it's like this harsh sun that like, I hate the look of it. I just don't like, I don't know what it is. Everything's too bright for you.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
That's where we depart. Like a little folding mirror.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
Yeah, I don't. My thought process about it is that you can only take off so many layers.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
Like I can't peel my skin off. I could, but I'm not going to. Don't. You can put on. I mean, I guess I could. I'm an autopsy technician. I know how to flay back skin. Could you bring yourself to do it?
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
I thought you were going to say absolutely. I was like, whoa. Not to myself. To a dead person, I can. Well, yeah, you have. Yeah. Yeah. But I'm like, yeah. Just take a turn. I like it. But you can't take off all the layers to get cool, but you can put on all the layers.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
We have all the things. This is where we diverge. It's okay. We'll just be friends in different continents. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll just stand in the middle of you.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
but you know yeah i just also love the night well yeah that's what that's how i feel did you watch night country did you did you i did i have not i think i could vibe that was yeah it was great it was it was really but even me i was like this is horrible it's dark every episode it's dark every episode it's like it's when like it's that part of the country that it like goes into night for three months oh i think i would thrive i think i would do okay yeah
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
I worked at Hollywood Video in high school, like RIP video stores. Guys, that's where you could rent movies. That was where you could rent VHS tapes and also DVDs.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
There's also like a reverse of that that happens where it's like three months of light.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
Damn. Yeah. Do you live out there, anyone? Write us in. Lots of emails coming in. I know. Suddenly we're really calling for emails this episode. Well, that was fun. That was fun. I loved that. Thanks for inviting me.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
Thank you for coming on. We learned a lot. Oh, and check out the Dear Jack Foundation if you want to say anything about that before we leave.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
My favorite job ever. And I used to make, like we would be able to pick what could be on the screen. Yeah. And I would make everybody play this one DVD. And it was like Drive Thru Records. Oh, yeah. I remember it well. And I would make them play it just so we could have the something corporate performance.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
were much older than i was and somehow those songs were still connecting yeah yeah definitely yeah that's like what you just said like people who've listened to you have grown up with you now so like it's funny because when we went to the something corporate concert where we met it was funny to look around and see like i was like oh it's just like a bunch of moms and dads being like just like transporting back into like something corporate days yeah
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
But it's fun because it's like we've been able to relate to you in the music the entire way through. And you can feel like the shifts, but they're so smooth because like you're going like we're going into that phase. So we're going to go in there together. Yeah. So it's just been really nice. Like even like last night we were talking about Bluey.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
And I was like, wow, we're just parents now together. Like, that's wild.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
You're doing it. My youngest is obsessed with Happy.
Morbid
Episode 650: Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon
She was like, wait a second. He sings Happy? I was like, yup. And she's five. So you're hitting all ranges.