Aisha Roscoe
Appearances
Up First from NPR
The Anatomy of a Wrongful Conviction
We're back with a Sunday story talking to Barbara Bradley Haggerty about Ben Spencer. Ben's just been convicted of murder, but the judge throws out the case. So, Barbara, like, what happened?
Up First from NPR
The Anatomy of a Wrongful Conviction
So basically, the witness lied and the prosecutor knew it because they had the receipt. So does that happen often?
Up First from NPR
The Anatomy of a Wrongful Conviction
Yeah, that's the thing. I mean, that's why people often take deals whether they're guilty or not.
Up First from NPR
The Anatomy of a Wrongful Conviction
Yeah, no, I can only imagine how that probably, you know, affected the jury. But how did Ben take this?
Up First from NPR
The Anatomy of a Wrongful Conviction
For the next seven years, Barbara dedicated herself to reporting on Ben Spencer's case. Now she's written a book about it, Bringing Ben Home, A Murder, A Conviction, and the Fight to Redeem American Justice. She joins us now. Welcome to the podcast.
Up First from NPR
The Anatomy of a Wrongful Conviction
You know, I mean, even there, he's, you know, leaning on his faith. Where was Ben sent to serve out his sentence?
Up First from NPR
The Anatomy of a Wrongful Conviction
And so when you say the best of times and the worst of times, what do you mean?
Up First from NPR
The Anatomy of a Wrongful Conviction
So I got a million questions, but I guess first, like, what was your frame of mind when you started your own reporting on this story? Did you believe that Ben was innocent or did you think that he might be guilty?
Up First from NPR
The Anatomy of a Wrongful Conviction
So did Ben Spencer's attorneys, you know, did they try to jump on this bandwagon? And was there any DNA that they could use to get him off?
Up First from NPR
The Anatomy of a Wrongful Conviction
Yeah, well, I mean, I guess that he should have had a chance on appeal.
Up First from NPR
The Anatomy of a Wrongful Conviction
Did Ben just kind of give up hope at this point?
Up First from NPR
The Anatomy of a Wrongful Conviction
I mean, by this point, Ben has been in prison a long time. Like, it's amazing. And just now he's getting someone to pick up his case.
Up First from NPR
The Anatomy of a Wrongful Conviction
And I would imagine things change after this. Maybe not quickly, but they change. That's right. Be sure to listen to the second part of our series about Ben Spencer in which Barbara Bradley Haggerty describes the uphill battle to prove his innocence. A battle fought by both Ben on the inside as well as a handful of people on the outside.
Up First from NPR
The Anatomy of a Wrongful Conviction
You can listen to that episode now right here in the Up First podcast feed.
Up First from NPR
The Anatomy of a Wrongful Conviction
OK, well, before we kind of dive in deeper, can you tell me about Ben Spencer and how did he get charged with this crime?
Up First from NPR
The Anatomy of a Wrongful Conviction
For years, Barbara covered the Department of Justice and religion for NPR. She eventually moved on to become a contributing writer for The Atlantic, still focusing on issues of law and justice. But then in the summer of 2016, she was on the hunt for a new story, and she called a favorite source of hers, Jim McCloskey.
Up First from NPR
The Anatomy of a Wrongful Conviction
I'm Aisha Roscoe, and this is a Sunday story from Up First, where we go beyond the news of the day to bring you one big story. As a journalist, you know, sometimes there are stories that just stick with you. And, you know, I'm certainly not alone in that. Some people, when they're reporting, encounter a story that changes their entire life. And that's what happened to Barbara Bradley Haggerty.
Up First from NPR
The Anatomy of a Wrongful Conviction
Well, I mean, $25,000, that's a lot of money even today. And I mean, definitely a lot of money back in 1987. So who were these witnesses and what did they have to say?
Up First from NPR
The Anatomy of a Wrongful Conviction
I mean, I can't imagine waking up to that and being accused of murder. I know.
Up First from NPR
The Anatomy of a Wrongful Conviction
Yeah, so he was thinking that, well, if I had nothing to do with this, they would just realize they got the wrong person and, you know, things would go back to the way they were, right?
Up First from NPR
The Anatomy of a Wrongful Conviction
Jim was a former seminarian who found his calling reinvestigating the cases of people who he had thought had been wrongly convicted. So when Jim picked up Barbara's call, she asked him this one question. What's the case that haunts you? Here's how he answered.
Up First from NPR
The Anatomy of a Wrongful Conviction
Well, I mean, all of this evidence, I mean, it does sound so incriminating, especially because the people knew him and they saying they saw him.
Up First from NPR
The Anatomy of a Wrongful Conviction
Twenty five percent. So a quarter of the time it's jailhouse informants. Right. For people on death row. Who turn out to be innocent.
Up First from NPR
The Anatomy of a Wrongful Conviction
I mean, it sounds like human nature, but obviously that's a lot stacked against Ben. You know, you've got the tunnel vision, the jailhouse informants, this reward money. And then we can't ignore the fact that you have power and you have race involved in this as well.
Up First from NPR
The Anatomy of a Wrongful Conviction
So the worst outcome for Ben. It just seems so wild that based on a few people saying something, you could be convicted of murder.
Up First from NPR
The Anatomy of a Wrongful Conviction
I mean, obviously, that's a part of how Ben ended up in prison. Can I ask you, did Ben have a decent lawyer?
Up First from NPR
The Anatomy of a Wrongful Conviction
It did not work. And then Ben ends up in prison. Well, actually, not right away. Oh, okay. Okay. So he didn't end up in prison right away?
Up First from NPR
The Anatomy of a Wrongful Conviction
At the time, Ben Spencer had been in prison for 30 years. Ben is a Black man, and he was convicted in 1987 of killing a white man in Dallas. Jim believed he was innocent. A judge had even declared him innocent 20 years after the original conviction. But the elected judges on the Texas High Court had disagreed, and so it seemed Ben would spend the rest of his life in prison.
Up First from NPR
The Poetic Wealth of Nikki Giovanni
I'm Aisha Roscoe, and this is a Sunday Story from Up First. I always like summer best. You can eat fresh corn from Daddy's garden, and okra, and greens, and cabbage, and lots of barbecue, and buttermilk, and homemade ice cream at the church picnics. These are the words of the great African-American poet, Nikki Giovanni, from her poem, Knoxville, Tennessee.
Up First from NPR
The Poetic Wealth of Nikki Giovanni
Today, we bring you this incredible conversation. Do you think about the legacy that you will leave behind?
Up First from NPR
The Poetic Wealth of Nikki Giovanni
Make sure to follow NPR's Wildcard podcast wherever you listen. This episode of Wildcard was produced by Lee Hale and edited by Dave Blanchard. It was fact-checked by Barclay Walsh and mastered by Robert Rodriguez. The Sunday Story team includes Andrew Mambo, Justine Yan, Jenny Schmidt, and Liana Simstrom. I'm Aisha Roscoe, and this is a Sunday Story from Up First.
Up First from NPR
The Poetic Wealth of Nikki Giovanni
We'll be back tomorrow with all the news you need to start your week. Until then, have a great rest of your weekend.
Up First from NPR
The Poetic Wealth of Nikki Giovanni
She died earlier this week at the age of 81. Nikki Giovanni was called many things, the poet of the Black Revolution, activist, spoken word artist, cultural icon, children's book author, professor, Christian, radiant voice of Black joy and struggle. To me, she was also an unapologetic truth teller. And some of her words and poems, I could feel them at a molecular level.
Up First from NPR
The Poetic Wealth of Nikki Giovanni
That's how much I related to them. Giovanni grew up with an alcoholic, abusive father in a house without indoor plumbing. And while she was never afraid to explore those hardships in her poetry, she also celebrated what was beautiful about community, food, and family. Earlier this year, my colleague and host of the podcast, Wild Card, Rachel Martin, spoke to Nikki Giovanni.