Adrian Daub
Appearances
A Bit Fruity with Matt Bernstein
The Incoherent Sexual Politics of the Right
I think the whole narrative of a capture of the Republican Party can be overstated. But, you know, there is still kind of a professional party out there. If you think of like a senator, like if you think of, I don't know, like a Marco Rubio, who are trying to sort of triangulate against this online right that they clearly share a lot in common with, but whose language they don't fully speak.
A Bit Fruity with Matt Bernstein
The Incoherent Sexual Politics of the Right
Right. Like if you think of like the weird way Marco Rubio tried to sort of get into like masculinity contests with Donald Trump and you're like, oh, my God, buddy. This is clearly a foreign language to you. Don't even try. This is pathetic. But what I think you're getting as more and more of the beating heart of the right wing really is the online right. And I think in the case of J.D.
A Bit Fruity with Matt Bernstein
The Incoherent Sexual Politics of the Right
Vance, you can sort of tell what happens when that just straight up enters the White House. is a kind of sexual politics that's far more reactive or that can identify itself or understand itself only as a reaction, right? Now, obviously, like Maura will tell you that, you know, all of sort of 70s social conservatism was a response to the feminist movement and the civil rights movement.
A Bit Fruity with Matt Bernstein
The Incoherent Sexual Politics of the Right
But this is a response, I think, in a different way in that it can feel joy. It can take enjoyment in its own positions only if it thinks it's offending you, right? I think that's what Hawk Tua is all about, right? Like, full disclosure, I hope I can speak for you, Moira. Like, we thought that was delightful.
A Bit Fruity with Matt Bernstein
The Incoherent Sexual Politics of the Right
Yeah, don't spit on that thing. Betty Friedan didn't die so that you could spit on that thing. Yeah.
A Bit Fruity with Matt Bernstein
The Incoherent Sexual Politics of the Right
1980s Donald Trump. Right.
A Bit Fruity with Matt Bernstein
The Incoherent Sexual Politics of the Right
Now, I want to underline what Moira just said about this was there as an undercurrent, even in the most censorious moments of the Reagan-Bush years, let's say. I mean, one example, one of the things I work on is the history of the term political correctness. And that was, of course, a way for conservatives to sort of say, well, you don't know how to have fun anymore. We know how to have fun.
A Bit Fruity with Matt Bernstein
The Incoherent Sexual Politics of the Right
And part of that was always... being sexually belligerent towards women, right? Like every fricking nineties standup special that had that title. I was like, well, I'm a man's man. Like I, you know, slap my wife's ass and whatever, you know? Okay, great. Wonderful.
A Bit Fruity with Matt Bernstein
The Incoherent Sexual Politics of the Right
So even at a time when the institutional Republican party sort of, they would play footsie with this, but they wouldn't necessarily put that in their, In their actual political programs. Right. And one thing I think that you can use to measure this is whether or not Republicans resign from office. Well, I think Republicans have stopped resigning from office for anything at this point.
A Bit Fruity with Matt Bernstein
The Incoherent Sexual Politics of the Right
But to me, like the paradigmatic case of a Republican politician falling over the kind of sexual politics of his party in the early aughts was Larry Craig. Y'all remember Larry Craig? This was before some of you were born, probably.
A Bit Fruity with Matt Bernstein
The Incoherent Sexual Politics of the Right
Before me. This was before I was born. Yeah. I'm honestly unsure when it was. It might have been 2005, 2006. Oh, okay. No, I was born.
A Bit Fruity with Matt Bernstein
The Incoherent Sexual Politics of the Right
But have you written a children's book that's just going to crush kids' dreams?
A Bit Fruity with Matt Bernstein
The Incoherent Sexual Politics of the Right
Just don't expect any money.
A Bit Fruity with Matt Bernstein
The Incoherent Sexual Politics of the Right
The amount of money in the world neither exists nor is even possessed by Elon Musk.
A Bit Fruity with Matt Bernstein
The Incoherent Sexual Politics of the Right
So Larry Craig, right, like a Republican senator from, I want to say, Idaho, big kind of values conservative, gets tripped up in a bus at the Minneapolis-St. Paul airport, I want to say, by his wide stance in the sense that he slid one of his shoes over to the other stall. He was cruising in an airport bathroom.
A Bit Fruity with Matt Bernstein
The Incoherent Sexual Politics of the Right
No, the implication was he made contact with an undercover officer. And also, I have to say that, frankly, the fact that there was a police department staking out an airport bathroom.
A Bit Fruity with Matt Bernstein
The Incoherent Sexual Politics of the Right
Yeah, and he resigned. And it's this kind of classic case of he was a homophobe. There was a clear implication he was gay. Yeah. Everyone in the community was like, well, yeah, that's why you would slide your foot over to someone else's stall. It's really nothing else. And he would come up with all these excuses that I suppose would make sense to the church lady audience that had never heard.
A Bit Fruity with Matt Bernstein
The Incoherent Sexual Politics of the Right
cruised for sex in a public restroom. But it was a clear case of them kind of taking their own values, I mean, seriously, but like they were ensnared in the logic that they were applying to other people, right? And I think that is the big difference to today, that the gendered logics that they impose on other people only apply to them to a very, very limited extent.
A Bit Fruity with Matt Bernstein
The Incoherent Sexual Politics of the Right
They themselves, part of what masculinity is, is not being fettered in this way. That was not true of Larry Craig. Should we talk about Classically Abby?
A Bit Fruity with Matt Bernstein
The Incoherent Sexual Politics of the Right
You are the Leonardo da Vinci of talking about influencers, I have to say. I have learned... You know, the reason why Tati Westbrook means anything to me is just all thanks to you.
A Bit Fruity with Matt Bernstein
The Incoherent Sexual Politics of the Right
Like, insane in the sense that she's, like, you know, space lasers or, like, mind control? Or, like, is it more like seed oils? Like, there's so many flavors of crazy. Which flavor of crazy do we get?
A Bit Fruity with Matt Bernstein
The Incoherent Sexual Politics of the Right
6.2k views? Why are we talking about this lady?
A Bit Fruity with Matt Bernstein
The Incoherent Sexual Politics of the Right
Did she say a night at the opera, not at the club? Yeah.
A Bit Fruity with Matt Bernstein
The Incoherent Sexual Politics of the Right
I mean, I think the Phil Schlafly Comparisons app, but I think that's where it breaks down. She's not particularly campy, right? Like, she's not a vamp. I mean, like, oh, you think WAP might be degrading to women? Like, so did, like, every right-wing influencer on YouTube. Like, you're never going to attain the dizzy heights of, like, their insane outpourings. So why do you even bother, right?
A Bit Fruity with Matt Bernstein
The Incoherent Sexual Politics of the Right
Like, there is a real button-up quality to this that I think Maura's right. Like, really just... It doesn't play so well either on YouTube or, frankly, in modern conservative circles today.
A Bit Fruity with Matt Bernstein
The Incoherent Sexual Politics of the Right
from this like i think the long and short of it is just that this wasn't really a successful venture for her in the end do you know who she is like what's her background like why is she what brought her like well she's ben shapiro's sister what We've been talking for how long? Sorry. Jesus. What the?
A Bit Fruity with Matt Bernstein
The Incoherent Sexual Politics of the Right
Moira and I did an episode on the real lives of Mormon wives. And that was a kind of connection that we really noticed in that show after six hours of research that basically, yeah, it combined traditional locations for women with like, yeah, this very porny imagination overall, right? Like just the way they dress, the way they talked.
A Bit Fruity with Matt Bernstein
The Incoherent Sexual Politics of the Right
Thank you so much for having us.
A Bit Fruity with Matt Bernstein
The Incoherent Sexual Politics of the Right
very much sort of seeming to exist for a male gaze at the same time, right? Like it was still largely within the confines of the LDS church.
A Bit Fruity with Matt Bernstein
The Incoherent Sexual Politics of the Right
Do you ever interact with like a barista? Like you have, you got, you got siblings. Do you got any friends? Like, nope. It's just only fat models and, and egg lady.
A Bit Fruity with Matt Bernstein
The Incoherent Sexual Politics of the Right
But part of it is also that they have to imagine a left that hates sex, right? I think this is a generation that has been reared on conservative caricatures of feminists, right? And this idea that the woke left hates you. This is the Sydney Sweeney's boobs are somehow a sign that woke died, right? And you're like, they can't admit to liking anything anymore.
A Bit Fruity with Matt Bernstein
The Incoherent Sexual Politics of the Right
All they wanted to say was, I find this attractive. I find this woman attractive. Fine, good for you. But it can't be just that. It has to be a political state, but it has to be part of the civilizational battle against wokeness. And it's like, could it be that this Hawk Tua girl is just kind of infectious? Giggly drunks are just like a kind of a wonderful thing anyway.
A Bit Fruity with Matt Bernstein
The Incoherent Sexual Politics of the Right
Yeah. And like, and we were all kind of charmed by it. The fucking end, you know, is that, is that possible or does it have to be about the great civilizational struggle again? But like they need to tell themselves that it is about this other thing. And I think part of it is that the people who are purveying a lot of this are not actually having all that much sex, frankly. Right.
A Bit Fruity with Matt Bernstein
The Incoherent Sexual Politics of the Right
And that's what transvestigation is all about, right? Like anybody that doesn't have that insane Fox News blowout and that doesn't have, you know, highly exaggerated boobage, it's basically like, could this be a man, right? And you're like, no, no, it could just be, you know, there are 8 billion people on this planet and people look all kinds of ways.
A Bit Fruity with Matt Bernstein
The Incoherent Sexual Politics of the Right
It's also, weren't we supposed to be groomers or whatever? Like, I mean, like, like, oversexed, undersexed, like, just make up your fucking mind what you what lie you want to tell about us.
A Bit Fruity with Matt Bernstein
The Incoherent Sexual Politics of the Right
this is kind of weird thing about antibody positivity that they've all gotten into. Michael Hobbs, I think has pointed this out a couple of times that they've sort of talked themselves into pointing out that they find certain women hot in order to point out that some people are hot and others are not, which apparently is like a huge newsflash to the woke left or whatever.
A Bit Fruity with Matt Bernstein
The Incoherent Sexual Politics of the Right
But it is ultimately like make, trying to make some kind of shitty point about body positivity and, But I think it gives you kind of a sense that like you have to reconstitute, you have to like sort of like understanding a chess match after you've walked in halfway through. Like I don't even, how did any of these pieces get where they are? Like what is actually going on?
A Bit Fruity with Matt Bernstein
The Incoherent Sexual Politics of the Right
I'm just gonna like, have you like, have you like watched a movie in the last 70 years?
A Bit Fruity with Matt Bernstein
The Incoherent Sexual Politics of the Right
Isn't that an headline recently? New star in the conservative movement, now just a guy doing Hitler's lute and crying at the same time. That's what it is. It's like, I rule everything. Why am I still a victim? It's like, I don't know. It feels like you're addicted to both of these positions. What they're addicted to, I think, is twofold, right?
A Bit Fruity with Matt Bernstein
The Incoherent Sexual Politics of the Right
One, if they ever became fully cognizant of the degree of their own power and dominance in the society, and then we're back with Elon Musk, there might be certain responsibilities that come with it, right? They don't want that, can't have that.
A Bit Fruity with Matt Bernstein
The Incoherent Sexual Politics of the Right
Therefore, if you're always the contrarian, if you're the shit poster, if you're just... I mean, Elon Musk is the richest man in the world and still seems to think he's somehow the underdog. He still seems to somehow think... He's just like an online shit poster. And it's like, no, dude, you own the fucking company. They want the power.
A Bit Fruity with Matt Bernstein
The Incoherent Sexual Politics of the Right
They are not okay then having to have any kind of responsibility.
A Bit Fruity with Matt Bernstein
The Incoherent Sexual Politics of the Right
As Maura sort of started out saying, I think there's a promise being made here. There's a contractual offer being made. And I think that for young men, this is a pretty tempting offer, right? The fun without the responsibility, right? The children without having to raise them.
A Bit Fruity with Matt Bernstein
The Incoherent Sexual Politics of the Right
The family as a kind of emanation of your own success rather than something that, you know, as someone who has a family himself, like, takes a lot of work, but you don't have to have any of that. Now, for what the women get out of it, I think is a little bit more complicated, but it is this, you know, patriarchal compact. It is essentially...
A Bit Fruity with Matt Bernstein
The Incoherent Sexual Politics of the Right
The promise that you can have a location, a very firmly established location in their world, as long as you do your part. And that if you deviate from that location, society will rain untold violence on your head. I think that's the right, Mara, would you say that that's the offer that's being made here? This is a protection racket, essentially. This is sexuality as a protection racket.
A Bit Fruity with Matt Bernstein
The Incoherent Sexual Politics of the Right
Can we also pause on the fact, I feel like we kind of yada yada this part, like why is fucking Miley Anopoulos back?
A Bit Fruity with Matt Bernstein
The Incoherent Sexual Politics of the Right
Try it. You might like it. I mean, it'll be a little gay, but you might like it.
A Bit Fruity with Matt Bernstein
The Incoherent Sexual Politics of the Right
If you think about it, it's such a pervasive trope on... You mentioned the barstool right. It's out of pickup artist culture, where basically it's not just about control over women. It's not just control over their bodies. It is also... not really even entering into a bargain with them, right? Like any demands on you that might arise from it actually show that you've lost, right?
A Bit Fruity with Matt Bernstein
The Incoherent Sexual Politics of the Right
And I think tweet exchange that you cited, you can seize it of Yiannopoulos and Musk sort of play the ball to each other. Like that's it, right? They're sort of trying to figure out a way to negate This feeling that maybe they might owe or that these musk might owe this lady something on account of, you know, the child. No, you got to get away from that because that would be a form of weakness.
A Bit Fruity with Matt Bernstein
The Incoherent Sexual Politics of the Right
That would be a form of dependency that would be holding back sort of his bizarre kind of version of masculinity.
A Bit Fruity with Matt Bernstein
The Incoherent Sexual Politics of the Right
Can we talk about that children's book? I haven't been able to get a hold of it yet, but I'm kind of interested because I've had occasion to read a lot of children's books recently.
A Bit Fruity with Matt Bernstein
The Incoherent Sexual Politics of the Right
children's book should set the like open up your imagination it should like set the world alight with meaning and possibility not be like well this isn't that so you know get it in your heads kids right it's like it's you know hella transphobic but it's also just like an absolute failure as a as a children's book what's next you can't fly fairies aren't real you know like i
A Bit Fruity with Matt Bernstein
The Incoherent Sexual Politics of the Right
Who the fuck buys this for their kids? Like, yeah, I got to crush their spirit when they're young.
A Bit Fruity with Matt Bernstein
The Incoherent Sexual Politics of the Right
This is something that we come back to on the pod all the time. It's heterosexuality as the eternally moving goalpost. Oh, you're straight in the basic sense that you want to have sex with someone of a different gender. Congratulations. Anyway, it's not enough. Right now you're a beta cuck, so now you've got to do this. Oh, did you buy her flowers? You can't do that.
A Bit Fruity with Matt Bernstein
The Incoherent Sexual Politics of the Right
Eventually, even paying her child support is basically a sign that you're not masculine enough. You're gay.
A Bit Fruity with Matt Bernstein
The Incoherent Sexual Politics of the Right
I mean, I think of all these we love. This is like a sort of side line we have on the podcast of just like foregrounding tweets of like, fellas, is it gay to have sex with Taylor Swift? Fellas, is it gay to have sex with your wife? Fellas, is it gay to write? And like, I mean, like at this point, all this is, is that like it's these grifters online that basically tell mostly young men, I think.
A Bit Fruity with Matt Bernstein
The Incoherent Sexual Politics of the Right
That like, however you're doing masculinity is not really masculinity. And now I'm inventing this like insane thing where I eat like a raw fucking liver or whatever on YouTube. It's not a goal to be reached. It's not a standard to be attained. It's just about the moving of the goalposts, I think.
A Bit Fruity with Matt Bernstein
The Incoherent Sexual Politics of the Right
I should say Claire would be so proud of you. I did it.