Aaron Katursky
Appearances
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Bad Rap: USA v. Sean Combs
Aaron says Diddy looked stunned, like he was a little surprised at where he found himself. Cameras aren't typically allowed inside federal courtrooms, so the only way to see what's gone on at Diddy's hearings has been to go in person. Aaron's gone to nearly every hearing in Diddy's federal criminal case so far.
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Bad Rap: USA v. Sean Combs
Speaking of the prosecutors in the case, when you're sitting there in court, because we can read the documents, we can read the articles, how powerful is their presentation of the evidence? And do you feel like they have what they need, not only to further this prosecution, but potentially to get a conviction?
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Bad Rap: USA v. Sean Combs
I mean, you look good. Mike Taylor and I would call it oxblood, but let's not split hairs.
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Bad Rap: USA v. Sean Combs
The dull blue and the- I get a few looks when I'm in the SDNY in this suit. I mean, you look good.
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Bad Rap: USA v. Sean Combs
When you've got a client in the SDNY- It's almost not so much as how do I beat this case? It's how do I shave off a couple of years? Can my client proffer? Is there someone else involved? Is there a bigger fish in this case? And so is there a bigger fish with Diddy?
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Bad Rap: USA v. Sean Combs
So I understand why you preface it as, are there other people who are involved? And I've seen this on social media a lot, and I hesitate to always respond when I see it by writing a comment, But some of the criticism is, how do you have a RICO with only one defendant? Because by definition, to conspire, you have to have two or more. I can't conspire by myself.
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Bad Rap: USA v. Sean Combs
I can conspire with you, but I can't conspire by myself. So you have a RICO where only Diddy is named as a defendant, but even the allegations, there has to be a quote-unquote criminal enterprise, and this can't operate on its own. So are we gonna have a RICO case with only one defendant?
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Bad Rap: USA v. Sean Combs
Eventually, we'll see who takes the witness stand. But we may never know all the names of the people from Diddy's inner circle who cooperated with prosecutors. After the break, should we expect Diddy to testify? And what should his defense be?
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Bad Rap: USA v. Sean Combs
A couple weeks ago, Diddy added a new lawyer to his team, according to court filings, Brian Steele. He's a high-profile Georgia attorney who recently got a lot of attention for representing rapper Young Thug in a racketeering case that lasted almost a year. The artist ultimately pled guilty to some charges and no contest to others.
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Bad Rap: USA v. Sean Combs
A big win for him, he was released on probation and sentenced to time served. Brian Steele brings the number of attorneys on Diddy's team up to four. Two men, two women. So back to my conversation with Aaron. Let's fast forward. The government puts on their case, the defense, I'm anticipating they put on some kind of a case.
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Bad Rap: USA v. Sean Combs
At some point in time, the judge is going to look to Sean Combs and say, do you want to testify? What's your feeling about his answer on that one?
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Bad Rap: USA v. Sean Combs
So if I was a betting person, I would say no. But as much as we joke that sometimes a defense attorney says don't testify, legally speaking, it is the client's right whether or not they testify. I can only advise someone whether or not it's a smart idea. Sometimes people with large egos make large mistakes. I also don't think... that this is a case where it would make sense for him to testify.
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Bad Rap: USA v. Sean Combs
Because it's going to be a situation of who do you believe more, Sean Combs or these alleged victims? And I don't think you want that to be the argument you have. You want this to be an argument of the prosecutor didn't meet their burden. They don't have credible witnesses. They haven't proven this case beyond a reasonable doubt.
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Bad Rap: USA v. Sean Combs
And I think you achieve that a lot easier and a lot smoother without the cross-examination of your own client. And I'll say this, I'm 0 for 12 with clients testifying.
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Bad Rap: USA v. Sean Combs
This is a case that I would be worried about the whatabouts. What about this time? What about when you said this? What about, what about, what about?
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Bad Rap: USA v. Sean Combs
And I think as much as Sean Combs has been in the public eye and as much as we've seen like things that were like reevaluating like 20 years later, like the Conan O'Brien interview when he talks about locking the doors, like those things have a very different context now than they did back then. So it would be interesting to see. Like I've said before, I'm not involved in Diddy's case.
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Bad Rap: USA v. Sean Combs
But as a defense attorney, I've spent some time puzzling over the legal arguments Diddy's defense team could make, and here's what I've got. The trafficking charges Diddy faces are federal because they involve movement across state lines.
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Bad Rap: USA v. Sean Combs
So if you could argue against the things that make them federal crimes while admitting to the elements that would make them state crimes, then they would have no business in federal court and they would get thrown out. Admitting to state crimes would be a problem, except those crimes have a statute of limitations.
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Bad Rap: USA v. Sean Combs
And for Diddy, the statute of limitations on some of the major allegations against him have expired, including the incident where he attacked Cassie in a hotel. I want to run this by you real quick because we always like to play a little devil's advocate.
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Bad Rap: USA v. Sean Combs
What if Sean Combs simply comes out and says, I committed all the state crimes. I am a domestic abuser. I hit women, I beat women, I had a really dark part of my life, but at no point in time was my violence the purpose for them crossing state lines. The same way that you and I may take our lives out to dancing in Brooklyn and then decide to go Get dinner in Manhattan.
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Bad Rap: USA v. Sean Combs
We have the ability to go from one borough to the next. Well, we don't have Sean Combs money because he has the ability to go from LA to Miami to France. And so he may not use his force to get them to travel state lines. It's just that when he's in LA, there was an argument and there was violence. They made up and they voluntarily decided to go to Florida.
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Bad Rap: USA v. Sean Combs
And so it's not that he's using the force, fraud or coercion to have them transfer over state lines. It's just that he has bumps in his relationship of violence in different states that would knock out the sex trafficking.
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Bad Rap: USA v. Sean Combs
And if he has a group of people that work for him, because he's not folding his own sheets, he's not cleaning up his own hotel rooms, does that mean it's a criminal enterprise because people help him to do the things that a rich and famous person has the ability to? And I've always been in the business of, you know what, your reputation may take a hit, but you're not going to go to jail or prison.
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Bad Rap: USA v. Sean Combs
And Aaron says there's something else that struck him in these early hearings.
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Bad Rap: USA v. Sean Combs
And I think you could have fallen on that sword and say, I don't traffic, but I am a flawed person. In my mind, And again, I'm putting aside the arson and a lot of other things. That could be the beginning of a potential defense because this could all be state charges and you just try to negate the federal aspect of it. Does that pass the laugh test or work in your mind in any way, shape, or form?
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Bad Rap: USA v. Sean Combs
I hope you were never reporting on any of my cases, but yes, I'll probably see you in court too. We'll probably see each other in court when we're covering this case, actually.
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Bad Rap: USA v. Sean Combs
Jury selection in Diddy's trial is set to start on May 5th. Follow this podcast so you can stay up to date on the case. Twice a week, we'll bring you the important developments from the courtroom and analysis of what it all means. So follow Bad Rap, The Case Against Diddy in your favorite podcast app.
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Bad Rap: USA v. Sean Combs
If you like this podcast, please share it and give it a five-star rating on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. That helps other people find it. Bad Rap, The Case Against Diddy, is a production of ABC Audio. I'm Brian Buckmeyer. This podcast was written and produced by Vika Aronson, Camille Peterson, and Nancy Rosenbaum. Tracy Samuelson is our story editor. Associate producer, Amira Williams.
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Bad Rap: USA v. Sean Combs
Production help from Shane McKeon. Fact checker, Audrey Mostek. Story consultant, Sweeney St. Ville. Supervising Producer, Sasha Aslanian. Original Music by Eben Viola. Mixing by Rick Kwan. Ariel Chester is our Social Media Producer. This podcast was powered by the journalists at Impact by Nightline, 2020, GMA, and the ABC News Investigative Unit. Thanks to those teams.
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Bad Rap: USA v. Sean Combs
And special thanks to Stephanie Maurice, Liz Alessi, and Katie Dendas. Josh Kohan is ABC Audio's Director of Podcast Programming. Laura Mayer is our Executive Producer.
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Bad Rap: USA v. Sean Combs
The allegations in the criminal case against Sean Diddy Combs span two decades of the mogul's life and career. The indictment lists all of the names he's gone by. It's called USA v. Sean Combs, a.k.a. Puff Daddy, a.k.a. P. Diddy, a.k.a. Diddy, a.k.a. PD, a.k.a. Love. The case is sprawling, both in how much time it covers and the criminal behavior it accuses Combs of.
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Bad Rap: USA v. Sean Combs
It alleges that through all of those name changes and career moves, Diddy created and ran a criminal enterprise whose members and associates engaged in and attempted to engage in, among other crimes, sex trafficking, forced labor, kidnapping, arson, bribery, and obstruction of justice. These charges are serious, and if convicted, Diddy could wind up in prison for the rest of his life.
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Bad Rap: USA v. Sean Combs
Combs has pled not guilty to all charges. His attorney called the federal case against him an unjust prosecution and said Combs is an imperfect person, but not a criminal. Over the course of this series, we've traced Diddy's rise to fame, power, and wealth, and the allegations that have cast a shadow over that rise. Diddy's trial is set to start soon, so we're switching gears.
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Bad Rap: USA v. Sean Combs
This episode is gonna sound a little different. Aaron and I are gonna sit down for a talk and nerd out on the legal issues we think you need to know about before the trial begins. It'll be a conversation between a defense attorney and a longtime legal reporter. We'll cover the charges against Diddy and what they really mean.
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Bad Rap: USA v. Sean Combs
We'll highlight some of the evidence the government says they have and dig into possible strategies for his defense. I'm Brian Buckmeyer. From ABC Audio, this is Bad Rap, the case against Diddy. Episode 6, USA v. Sean Combs. In this series, we've talked about the many civil lawsuits against Diddy, roughly 60 active cases in total now.
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Bad Rap: USA v. Sean Combs
The first one that really set this story in motion was the one brought by Diddy's ex-girlfriend, Cassie Ventura. You'll remember, that suit quickly settled with no admission of guilt. The other civil lawsuits are moving at their own pace, but this trial is for the criminal case brought by federal prosecutors from the Southern District of New York.
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Bad Rap: USA v. Sean Combs
So how do you think that maybe Cassie's and other lawsuits may affect the federal criminal investigation and even the case?
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Bad Rap: USA v. Sean Combs
I'm curious for this answer, especially because we, you and I know so much about this case and I don't think it's an easy one to distill into a sentence, but imagine someone is living under a rock and they're, they're kind of just running by and they're like, Aaron, what's this case about? Like, just give me a sentence.
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Bad Rap: USA v. Sean Combs
If you were to boil it down to a sentence, a couple of words, what is this whole case against Diddy about?
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Bad Rap: USA v. Sean Combs
I only laugh because we have circled that idea so many times talking about this case.
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Bad Rap: USA v. Sean Combs
I like the larger umbrella and how you kind of posed it, at least from the defense standpoint, of Sean Combs just really likes some freaky stuff. And maybe they do a couple of pills before they have sex. Maybe they drink too much alcohol before sex. And everyone was okay with that kind of lifestyle. And I think you said it well, that the government's just like a prudish prosecution.
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Bad Rap: USA v. Sean Combs
The freak-offs come up so often when we talk about this case because they bring together the three main charges Diddy is facing. Racketeering conspiracy, two counts of sex trafficking, and two counts of transportation to engage in prostitution. Prosecutors say these alleged crimes involve at least seven victims.
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Bad Rap: USA v. Sean Combs
Transportation to engage in prostitution is pretty self-explanatory, but the other two charges are worth spending some time on. Racketeering conspiracy. We've talked about it in previous episodes. It's where two or more people agree to take part in a pattern of criminal behavior.
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Bad Rap: USA v. Sean Combs
It's sometimes called a RICO charge, and RICO is just an acronym for the name of the federal law originally intended to combat organized crime. Rudy Giuliani famously used it to target the mafia in New York City as a U.S. attorney in the 80s.
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Bad Rap: USA v. Sean Combs
That's ABC News chief investigative correspondent Aaron Katursky. Aaron's been covering the courts in New York and other places for more than 25 years. He's reported on the trials of lots of high-profile people, including defendants like Diddy, who were charged with sex crimes. People like Harvey Weinstein and Ghislaine Maxwell.
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Bad Rap: USA v. Sean Combs
Then there's a sex trafficking charge. It's a term you've probably heard before, but I think it's often misunderstood. So here's an attorney's definition. Sex trafficking is making a person engage in sex acts they don't consent to through force, fraud, or coercion. And it doesn't necessarily have to involve the exchange of money.
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Bad Rap: USA v. Sean Combs
What kicks this up to a federal charge and not just a state charge is when the victims are made to cross state lines. So you can see how the freak-offs encapsulate all three of these charges.
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Bad Rap: USA v. Sean Combs
According to prosecutors, Diddy allegedly ran a criminal network that helped orchestrate sex parties, including transporting sex workers and other alleged victims from one state to another and forcing them to participate. Like we mentioned earlier, prosecutors have also accused Diddy of other crimes, bribery, forced labor, obstruction of justice, kidnapping, and arson.
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Bad Rap: USA v. Sean Combs
The kidnapping and arson stood out to me. Prosecutors don't name the victim of the arson. They call this person individual one. However, the timing and facts described by the government sound a lot like the explosion of rapper Kid Cudi's car. Remember, Cassie describes that incident in her lawsuit.
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Bad Rap: USA v. Sean Combs
She alleged Diddy was involved in the explosion after he found out Cassie and Kid Cudi briefly dated. Kid Cudi told the New York Times that his car did in fact blow up. This arson charge by prosecutors allegedly shows the lengths that Combs would go to maintain control over his victims.
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Bad Rap: USA v. Sean Combs
Local authorities never charge Combs for anything related to Kid Cudi's car explosion, and his lawyer maintains Combs had no involvement in the incident. After the break, we look at the prosecution's case against Diddy, including possible evidence and who their star witness might be.
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Bad Rap: USA v. Sean Combs
A couple weeks ago, I was glued to my computer, constantly refreshing the court's filing system for updates on Diddy's case. April 15th was supposed to be the day prosecutors would file a list of witnesses they may call to testify. But that didn't happen. At least, not in a way that was accessible to the public. But here's what we do know.
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Bad Rap: USA v. Sean Combs
According to recent court filings, prosecutors are planning to call multiple alleged victims. The government refers to them as victim one, two, three, and so on, keeping their identities anonymous.
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Bad Rap: USA v. Sean Combs
Cassie alleged in her lawsuit that this incident, seen on hotel surveillance video and released by CNN, happened right after a freak-off. Diddy's team has asked the judge to exclude the video from trial, arguing CNN edited the footage and that it's inaccurate. CNN denies the allegation. The judge has agreed with the prosecution, and the video will be played at trial.
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Bad Rap: USA v. Sean Combs
This case isn't just based on the evidence or the testimony of prospective witnesses. I mean, they raided two of his homes. And so what kind of stuff can we expect that might come from those homes that I think that the defense is feverishly trying to have suppressed?
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Bad Rap: Party's Over
Sean Combs entered in a black T-shirt, gray sweatpants, and sneakers. He actually looked a little stunned as he surveyed the imposing room. Several of his children and his sister were there watching as he pleaded not guilty. And then they saw him led out by the marshals after the judge ordered him into custody without bail. David.
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Bad Rap: Downfall
Sean Combs knew he was going to be arrested, his attorney said, and decided to come to New York two weeks in advance. According to his lawyer, Sean Combs knew that the raids on his home scared his kids, and he said he didn't want anything else to be so scary. And that's why he decided to relocate to New York, so that everybody would know where he was to make the arrest easy.
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Bad Rap: Downfall
Watch how federal agents took Sean Diddy Combs into custody. He's seen in this video entering the Park Hyatt Hotel in Midtown Manhattan with others when agents from Homeland Security Investigations approach and separate him. They place Combs under arrest and lead him out the front door in handcuffs.
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Bad Rap: Downfall
His lawyer said Combs had come to New York two weeks earlier with the intention of turning himself in. He did not expect the agents to be waiting at his hotel last Monday night.
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Bad Rap: Downfall
The first time I saw Sean Combs enter court after he was charged, I remember doing a little bit of a double take. Sean Combs, sitting right there. I mean, he looked right at me.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
Burden of Proof: Diddy Made Death Threats, According to Key Witness
And she also talked today about how she called Cassie Ventura when all this was going on with the car.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
Burden of Proof: Diddy Made Death Threats, According to Key Witness
All right, we have to leave it there. We're out of time. Brian, Bernarda, thank you both for being with us. Coming up after 17 witnesses and more than 200 pieces of evidence seen so far, a look at the bombshell moments from inside the courtroom. Stay with us. This is the next phase in my therapeutic work.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
Burden of Proof: Diddy Made Death Threats, According to Key Witness
Welcome back. The trial of Sean Diddy Combs is in its third week. Jurors have listened to 10 days of testimony from 17 prosecution witnesses and viewed more than 200 pieces of evidence. We've been following key witness testimony all throughout this trial. Let's take a look at some of the key moments in the trial so far with ABC News contributor Kelly Carter. Kelly, so good to have you.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
Burden of Proof: Diddy Made Death Threats, According to Key Witness
Let's start with the hotel manager's testimony. Why did that moment stand out to you?
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
Burden of Proof: Diddy Made Death Threats, According to Key Witness
Capricorn Clark made your list.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
Burden of Proof: Diddy Made Death Threats, According to Key Witness
She was a former assistant. Another key moment to you, another one of Combs' former assistants, David James.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
Burden of Proof: Diddy Made Death Threats, According to Key Witness
He faces the possibility of life in prison if convicted. We have our team closely following the case from inside the courtroom. Let's get right to the federal courthouse in Manhattan. That's where we find our chief investigative correspondent, Erin Katursky. And Erin, we have to start with Sean Combs' former assistant, Capricorn Clark. What did she tell the jury?
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
Burden of Proof: Diddy Made Death Threats, According to Key Witness
OK, your biggest moment of the trial so far?
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
Burden of Proof: Diddy Made Death Threats, According to Key Witness
I know that's your biggest moment, but a lot of people still talking about the Cassie Ventura testimony.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
Burden of Proof: Diddy Made Death Threats, According to Key Witness
Kelly Carter, thank you so much for being with us.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
Burden of Proof: Diddy Made Death Threats, According to Key Witness
And thank you for joining us. We'll be back with new episodes every day of The Trial right here on ABC News Live, Disney Plus, and Hulu, weekdays at 5.30 p.m. Eastern and Pacific. For even more on The Diddy Trial, make sure to follow our podcast, Bad Rap, The Case Against Diddy, hosted by our very own Brian Bachmeier on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen. I'm Eva Pilgrim in New York.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
Burden of Proof: Diddy Made Death Threats, According to Key Witness
Have a good rest of your day.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
Burden of Proof: Diddy Made Death Threats, According to Key Witness
Erin, Clark painted a picture of what it was like to work for Combs, saying she even had to take a lie detector test. Why did she have to do that?
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
Burden of Proof: Diddy Made Death Threats, According to Key Witness
The defense also pulled out some old text messages between Clark and Combs. What did they say?
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
Burden of Proof: Diddy Made Death Threats, According to Key Witness
I'm curious what Combs' response was hearing this in the courtroom.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
Burden of Proof: Diddy Made Death Threats, According to Key Witness
Erin Katursky for us there outside the federal court in Manhattan. Thank you so much. And here to dig into the start of week three of this trial is ABC News legal contributor Brian Buckmeyer. You've been in the courtroom almost all of this trial, right? So whose testimony so far do you think has been the most significant?
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
Burden of Proof: Diddy Made Death Threats, According to Key Witness
OK, today we heard from Capricorn Clark. She detailed some violence against Cassie Ventura and also against herself. Why does this matter?
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
Burden of Proof: Diddy Made Death Threats, According to Key Witness
We have to talk, though, about this moment with the defense team today and Clark. They brought up these old text messages that they had found between her and Combs. This one here really stood out in that line of questioning. Why talk about this?
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
Burden of Proof: Diddy Made Death Threats, According to Key Witness
Week three of testimony in the Sean Diddy Combs trial, starting with the music mogul's former assistant, Capricorn Clark, taking the stand. She testified she was held against her will twice, at one point alleging she was forced from her apartment and into a car to take Combs and one of his bodyguards to the home of rapper Kid Cudi to quote, Kill him.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
Burden of Proof: Diddy Made Death Threats, According to Key Witness
The prosecution's signaling that this could be five weeks, not six, like they originally thought. Does this tell us anything about how they feel right now?
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
Burden of Proof: Diddy Made Death Threats, According to Key Witness
Yeah. I'm curious. So we don't know if that witness is going to be coming. As of now, we don't. Okay. The next witness we expect to see is an arson investigator from the Los Angeles Fire Department. What can we expect here?
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
Burden of Proof: Diddy Made Death Threats, According to Key Witness
Ex-girlfriend's sister's house. Trying to keep it all straight. Brian, thank you so much for being here with us. Still ahead, Kid Cudi, Suge Knight, Mel's diner. After 17 witnesses and more than 200 pieces of evidence seen so far, look at some of the bombshell moments from inside the courtroom.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
Burden of Proof: Diddy Made Death Threats, According to Key Witness
And up next, our legal team breaks down Capricorn Clark's testimony, how they think what she said will play with the jury. Stay with us.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
Burden of Proof: Diddy Made Death Threats, According to Key Witness
Welcome back. Week three of the Sean Diddy Combs trial featured key testimony from another one of Sean Combs' former assistants, Capricorn Clark. Let's break down the key legal strategies we saw playing out in court today. Brian Buckmeyer is back playing the defense. Bernarda Villalona playing prosecutor. Bernarda, let's start with you. We're now many days into this trial.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
Burden of Proof: Diddy Made Death Threats, According to Key Witness
Do you think the prosecution is making progress in proving the charges in this case?
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
Burden of Proof: Diddy Made Death Threats, According to Key Witness
Cuddy was dating his ex, Cassie Ventura, at the time. Clark also claimed Combs threatened to kill Ventura if she didn't convince Kid Cuddy not to tell police that Combs was allegedly involved with a break-in at his house. Clark also telling the jury that a large man repeatedly administered lie detector tests to her on suspicion that she stole jewelry loaned to Combs.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
Burden of Proof: Diddy Made Death Threats, According to Key Witness
All right. Uncle Paulie of it all, right? Brian, what did you think?
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
Burden of Proof: Diddy Made Death Threats, According to Key Witness
I mean, she had a hit before she signed with Sean Combs. And so did Vanilla Ice. And not as many. And I think that's what the defense is going to argue. I think because the point she made was she was no Whitney Houston or Mariah Carey. I mean, no one is. Why go there?
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
Burden of Proof: Diddy Made Death Threats, According to Key Witness
Do you think that's a problem at all for the prosecution?
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
Burden of Proof: Diddy Made Death Threats, According to Key Witness
Let's talk about Clark's testimony some more, because she also brought the whole Kid Cudi of it all.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
Burden of Proof: Diddy Made Death Threats, According to Key Witness
She testified that this man said if she flunked the test, they're going to throw you in the East River. Federal prosecutors said outside of the jury's presence that their case is running ahead of schedule and could be finished in five weeks. Previously, they said it could take six weeks. Now, Combs has pleaded not guilty to all charges. His defense team says any sexual encounters were consensual.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
USA v. Sean Combs
I mean, you look good. Mike Taylor and I would call it oxblood, but let's not split hairs.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
USA v. Sean Combs
Yes. The dull blue and the- I get a few looks when I'm in the SDNY in this suit. I mean, you look good.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
USA v. Sean Combs
When you've got a client in the SDNY- It's almost not so much as how do I beat this case? It's how do I shave off a couple of years? Can my client proffer? Is there someone else involved? Is there a bigger fish in this case? And so is there a bigger fish with Diddy?
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
USA v. Sean Combs
So I understand why you preface it as, are there other people who are involved? And I've seen this on social media a lot, and I hesitate to always respond when I see it by writing a comment, But some of the criticism is, how do you have a RICO with only one defendant? Because by definition, to conspire, you have to have two or more. I can't conspire by myself.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
USA v. Sean Combs
I can conspire with you, but I can't conspire by myself. So you have a RICO where only Diddy is named as a defendant. But even the allegations, there has to be a quote-unquote criminal enterprise. And this can't operate on its own. So are we going to have a RICO case with only one defendant?
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
USA v. Sean Combs
And Aaron says there's something else that struck him in these early hearings.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
USA v. Sean Combs
Eventually, we'll see who takes the witness stand. But we may never know all the names of the people from Diddy's inner circle who cooperated with prosecutors. After the break, should we expect Diddy to testify? And what should his defense be?
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
USA v. Sean Combs
A couple weeks ago, Diddy added a new lawyer to his team, according to court filings, Brian Steele. He's a high-profile Georgia attorney who recently got a lot of attention for representing rapper Young Thug in a racketeering case that lasted almost a year. The artist ultimately pled guilty to some charges and no contest to others.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
USA v. Sean Combs
A big win for him, he was released on probation and sentenced to time served. Brian Steele brings the number of attorneys on Diddy's team up to four. Two men, two women. So back to my conversation with Aaron. Let's fast forward. The government puts on their case, the defense, I'm anticipating they put on some kind of a case.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
USA v. Sean Combs
At some point in time, the judge is going to look to Sean Combs and say, do you want to testify? What's your feeling about his answer on that one?
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
USA v. Sean Combs
So if I was a betting person, I would say no, but as much as we joke that sometimes a defense attorney says don't testify, legally speaking, it is the client's right whether or not they testify. I can only advise someone whether or not it's a smart idea. Sometimes people with large egos make large mistakes.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
USA v. Sean Combs
I also don't think that this is a case where it would make sense for him to testify because it's gonna be a situation of who do you believe more, Sean Combs or these alleged victims? And I don't think you want that to be the argument you have. You want this to be an argument of the prosecutor didn't meet their burden. They don't have credible witnesses.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
USA v. Sean Combs
They haven't proven this case beyond a reasonable doubt. And I think you achieve that a lot easier and a lot smoother without the cross-examination of your own client. And I'll say this, I'm 0 for 12 with Klein's testifying.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
USA v. Sean Combs
This is a case that I would be worried about the whatabouts. What about this time? What about when you said this? What about, what about, what about?
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
USA v. Sean Combs
And I think as much as Sean Combs has been in the public eye and as much as we've seen like things that were like reevaluating like 20 years later, like the Conan O'Brien interview when he talks about locking the doors, like those things have a very different context now than they did back then. So it would be interesting to see.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
USA v. Sean Combs
Like I've said before, I'm not involved in Diddy's case, but as a defense attorney, I've spent some time puzzling over the legal arguments Diddy's defense team could make, and here's what I've got. The trafficking charges Diddy faces are federal because they involve movement across state lines.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
USA v. Sean Combs
So if you could argue against the things that make them federal crimes while admitting to the elements that would make them state crimes, then they would have no business in federal court and they would get thrown out. Admitting to state crimes would be a problem, except those crimes have a statute of limitations.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
USA v. Sean Combs
And for Diddy, the statute of limitations on some of the major allegations against him have expired, including the incident where he attacked Cassie in a hotel. I want to run this by you real quick, because we always like to play a little devil's advocate. What if Sean Combs simply comes out and says, I committed all the state crimes? I am a domestic abuser.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
USA v. Sean Combs
The allegations in the criminal case against Sean Diddy Combs span two decades of the mogul's life and career. The indictment lists all of the names he's gone by. It's called USA v. Sean Combs, a.k.a. Puff Daddy, a.k.a. P. Diddy, a.k.a. Diddy, a.k.a. P.D., a.k.a. Love. The case is sprawling, both in how much time it covers and the criminal behavior it accuses Combs of.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
USA v. Sean Combs
That's ABC News Chief Investigative Correspondent Aaron Katursky. Aaron's been covering the courts in New York and other places for more than 25 years. He's reported on the trials of lots of high-profile people, including defendants like Diddy, who were charged with sex crimes. People like Harvey Weinstein and Ghislaine Maxwell.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
USA v. Sean Combs
I hit women, I beat women, I had a really dark part of my life, but at no point in time was my violence the purpose for them crossing state lines. The same way that you and I may take our lives out to dancing in Brooklyn and then decide to go Get dinner in Manhattan. We have the ability to go from one borough to the next.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
USA v. Sean Combs
Well, we don't have Sean Combs money because he has the ability to go from LA to Miami to France. And so he may not use his force to get them to travel state lines. It's just that when he's in LA, there was an argument and there was violence. They made up and they voluntarily decided to go to Florida.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
USA v. Sean Combs
And so it's not that he's using the force, fraud, or coercion to have them transfer over state lines. It's just that he has bumps in his relationship of violence in different states. That would knock out the sex trafficking.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
USA v. Sean Combs
And if he has a group of people that work for him, because he's not folding his own sheets, he's not cleaning up his own hotel rooms, does that mean it's a criminal enterprise because people help him to do the things that a rich and famous person has the ability to? And I've always been in the business of, you know what, your reputation may take a hit, but you're not going to go to jail or prison.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
USA v. Sean Combs
And I think you could have fallen on that sword and say, I don't traffic, but I am a flawed person. In my mind... And again, I'm putting aside the arson and a lot of other things. That could be the beginning of a potential defense because this could all be state charges and you just try to negate the federal aspect of it.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
USA v. Sean Combs
Does that pass the laugh test or work in your mind in any way, shape, or form?
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
USA v. Sean Combs
I hope you were never reporting on any of my cases, but yes, I'll probably see you in court too. We'll probably see each other in court when we're covering this case, actually.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
USA v. Sean Combs
Jury selection in Diddy's trial is set to start on May 5th. Follow this podcast so you can stay up to date on the case. Twice a week, we'll bring you the important developments from the courtroom and analysis of what it all means. So follow Bad Rap, the case against Diddy, in your favorite podcast app.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
USA v. Sean Combs
If you like this podcast, please share it and give it a five-star rating on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. That helps other people find it. Bad Rap, The Case Against Diddy is a production of ABC Audio. I'm Brian Buckmeyer. This podcast was written and produced by Vika Aronson, Camille Peterson, and Nancy Rosenbaum. Tracy Samuelson is our story editor. Associate producer, Amira Williams.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
USA v. Sean Combs
Production help from Shane McKeon. Fact checker, Audrey Mostek. Story consultant, Sweeney St. Ville. Supervising producer, Sasha Aslanian. Original music by Eben Viola. Mixing by Rick Kwan. Ariel Chester is our social media producer. This podcast was powered by the journalists at Impact by Nightline, 2020, GMA, and the ABC News Investigative Unit. Thanks to those teams.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
USA v. Sean Combs
And special thanks to Stephanie Maurice, Liz Alessi, and Katie Dendas. Josh Cohan is ABC Audio's Director of Podcast Programming. Laura Mayer is our Executive Producer.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
USA v. Sean Combs
It alleges that through all of those name changes and career moves, Diddy created and ran a criminal enterprise whose members and associates engaged in and attempted to engage in, among other crimes, sex trafficking, forced labor, kidnapping, arson, bribery, and obstruction of justice. These charges are serious, and if convicted, Diddy could wind up in prison for the rest of his life.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
USA v. Sean Combs
Combs has pled not guilty to all charges. His attorney called the federal case against him an unjust prosecution and said Combs is an imperfect person, but not a criminal. Over the course of this series, we've traced Diddy's rise to fame, power, and wealth, and the allegations that have cast a shadow over that rise. Diddy's trial is set to start soon, so we're switching gears.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
USA v. Sean Combs
This episode is gonna sound a little different. Aaron and I are gonna sit down for a talk and nerd out on the legal issues we think you need to know about before the trial begins. It'll be a conversation between a defense attorney and a longtime legal reporter. We'll cover the charges against Diddy and what they really mean.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
USA v. Sean Combs
We'll highlight some of the evidence the government says they have and dig into possible strategies for his defense. I'm Brian Buckmeyer. From ABC Audio, this is Bad Rap, the case against Diddy. Episode 6, USA v. Sean Combs. In this series, we've talked about the many civil lawsuits against Diddy, roughly 60 active cases in total now.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
USA v. Sean Combs
The first one that really set this story in motion was the one brought by Diddy's ex-girlfriend, Cassie Ventura. You'll remember, that suit quickly settled with no admission of guilt. The other civil lawsuits are moving at their own pace, but this trial is for the criminal case brought by federal prosecutors from the Southern District of New York.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
USA v. Sean Combs
So how do you think that maybe Cassie's and other lawsuits may affect the federal criminal investigation and even the case?
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
USA v. Sean Combs
I'm curious for this answer, especially because we, you and I know so much about this case and I don't think it's an easy one to distill into a sentence, but imagine someone is living under a rock and they're, they're kind of just running by and they're like, Aaron, what's this case about? Like, just give me a sentence.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
USA v. Sean Combs
If you were to boil it down to a sentence, a couple of words, what is this whole case against Diddy about?
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
USA v. Sean Combs
I only laugh because we have circled that idea so many times talking about this case.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
USA v. Sean Combs
I like the larger umbrella and how you kind of posed it, at least from the defense standpoint, of Sean Combs just really likes some freaky stuff. And maybe they do a couple of pills before they have sex. Maybe they drink too much alcohol before sex. And everyone was okay with that kind of lifestyle. And I think you said it well, that the government's just like a prudish prosecution.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
USA v. Sean Combs
The freak-offs come up so often when we talk about this case because they bring together the three main charges Diddy is facing. Racketeering conspiracy, two counts of sex trafficking, and two counts of transportation to engage in prostitution. Prosecutors say these alleged crimes involve at least seven victims.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
USA v. Sean Combs
Transportation to engage in prostitution is pretty self-explanatory, but the other two charges are worth spending some time on. Racketeering conspiracy. We've talked about it in previous episodes. It's where two or more people agree to take part in a pattern of criminal behavior.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
USA v. Sean Combs
It's sometimes called a RICO charge, and RICO is just an acronym for the name of the federal law originally intended to combat organized crime. Rudy Giuliani famously used it to target the mafia in New York City as a U.S. attorney in the 80s.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
USA v. Sean Combs
Aaron says Diddy looked stunned, like he was a little surprised at where he found himself. Cameras aren't typically allowed inside federal courtrooms, so the only way to see what's gone on at Diddy's hearings has been to go in person. Aaron's gone to nearly every hearing in Diddy's federal criminal case so far.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
USA v. Sean Combs
Then there's the sex trafficking charge. It's a term you've probably heard before, but I think it's often misunderstood. So here's an attorney's definition. Sex trafficking is making a person engage in sex acts they don't consent to through force, fraud, or coercion. And it doesn't necessarily have to involve the exchange of money.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
USA v. Sean Combs
What kicks this up to a federal charge and not just a state charge is when the victims are made to cross state lines. So you can see how the freak-offs encapsulate all three of these charges.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
USA v. Sean Combs
According to prosecutors, Diddy allegedly ran a criminal network that helped orchestrate sex parties, including transporting sex workers and other alleged victims from one state to another and forcing them to participate. Like we mentioned earlier, prosecutors have also accused Diddy of other crimes, bribery, forced labor, obstruction of justice, kidnapping, and arson.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
USA v. Sean Combs
The kidnapping and arson stood out to me. Prosecutors don't name the victim of the arson. They call this person individual one. However, the timing and facts described by the government sound a lot like the explosion of rapper Kid Cudi's car. Remember, Cassie describes that incident in her lawsuit.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
USA v. Sean Combs
She alleged Diddy was involved in the explosion after he found out Cassie and Kid Cudi briefly dated. Kid Cudi told the New York Times that his car did in fact blow up. This arson charge by prosecutors allegedly shows the lengths that Combs would go to maintain control over his victims.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
USA v. Sean Combs
Local authorities never charge Combs for anything related to Kid Cudi's car explosion, and his lawyer maintains Combs had no involvement in the incident. After the break, we look at the prosecution's case against Diddy, including possible evidence and who their star witness might be.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
USA v. Sean Combs
A couple weeks ago, I was glued to my computer, constantly refreshing the court's filing system for updates on Diddy's case. April 15th was supposed to be the day prosecutors would file a list of witnesses they may call to testify, but that didn't happen, at least not in a way that was accessible to the public. But here's what we do know.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
USA v. Sean Combs
According to recent court filings, prosecutors are planning to call multiple alleged victims. The government refers to them as victim one, two, three, and so on, keeping their identities anonymous.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
USA v. Sean Combs
Cassie alleged in her lawsuit that this incident, seen on hotel surveillance video and released by CNN, happened right after a freak-off. Diddy's team has asked the judge to exclude the video from trial, arguing CNN edited the footage and that it's inaccurate. CNN denies the allegation. The judge has agreed with the prosecution, and the video will be played at trial.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
USA v. Sean Combs
This case isn't just based on the evidence or the testimony of prospective witnesses. I mean, they raided two of his homes. And so what kind of stuff can we expect that might come from those homes that I think that the defense is feverishly trying to have suppressed?
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
USA v. Sean Combs
Speaking of the prosecutors in the case, when you're sitting there in court, because we can read the documents, we can read the articles, how powerful is their presentation of the evidence? And do you feel like they have what they need, not only to further this prosecution, but potentially to get a conviction?
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
Party's Over
Sean Combs entered in a black T-shirt, gray sweatpants and sneakers. He actually looked a little stunned as he surveyed the imposing room. Several of his children and his sister were there watching as he pleaded not guilty. And then they saw him led out by the marshals after the judge ordered him into custody without bail. David. Aaron Guterski leading us off.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
Downfall
Sean Combs knew he was going to be arrested, his attorney said, and decided to come to New York two weeks in advance. According to his lawyer, Sean Combs knew that the raids on his home scared his kids, and he said he didn't want anything else to be so scary. And that's why he decided to relocate to New York, so that everybody would know where he was to make the arrest easy.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
Downfall
Watch how federal agents took Sean Diddy Combs into custody. He's seen in this video entering the Park Hyatt Hotel in Midtown Manhattan with others when agents from Homeland Security Investigations approach and separate him. They place Combs under arrest and lead him out the front door in handcuffs.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
Downfall
His lawyer said Combs had come to New York two weeks earlier with the intention of turning himself in. He did not expect the agents to be waiting at his hotel last Monday night.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
Downfall
The first time I saw Sean Combs enter court after he was charged, I remember doing a little bit of a double take. Sean Combs, sitting right there. I mean, he looked right at me.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
The Trial: Cassie Ventura Takes the Stand
When she walked into the room, Sean Combs appeared to look at her, but she, Eva, did not seem to look at him. And during her testimony, I'm not sure she really made eye contact with Sean Combs. She turned occasionally to her husband, Alex Fine, who was seated in the courtroom. She had other members of her family, her attorney there in support, but she recounted
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
The Trial: Cassie Ventura Takes the Stand
such graphic detail, too graphic for us to discuss here now, in such soft-spoken, matter-of-fact tones, describing degrading sexual activity that she said Sean Combs forced her into, starting when she was 22 years old, and as she called herself, naive, too naive, she said, to really understand what was going on or understand the power dynamics in the relationship, because she said, if it turned him on, that's what they did.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
The Trial: Cassie Ventura Takes the Stand
Her preferences weren't at all considered. And she said she was passed around and objectified by men and with other men she didn't want to be having sex with on Sean Combs' whim, describing how he wanted to set up recording equipment to record these freak-offs. She said, it made me feel insane. She said it was humiliating and disgusting.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
The Trial: Cassie Ventura Takes the Stand
Well, she was 19 and a young singer, and Combs signed her to a 10-album deal with Bad Boy Records, so a long-term deal. And she said, Eva, that she only made one album. Otherwise, the freak-offs took up so much of her time that it stifled her music career. But it controlled her financially, she said. So she felt like her livelihood, her career, her life
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
The Trial: Cassie Ventura Takes the Stand
really depended on Sean Combs and keeping him happy. Otherwise, she said she feared what might happen. Now, interestingly, she talked a lot about not wanting him to break up with her. Now, whether that was because she thought he might get violent or because she would lose some of the life that she had acquired, she didn't really say.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
The Trial: Cassie Ventura Takes the Stand
But we know that the defense is expected to argue that, sure, Sean Combs and Cassie had a toxic violent relationship, but the defense has called her a strong adult woman who made a voluntary choice.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
The Trial: Cassie Ventura Takes the Stand
It's really hard to read the jury. Most of them are pretty stone-faced. There was one woman who did seem to be following along. She would occasionally smirk at the mention of baby oil or lubricant, which was used so frequently that, as Ventura described, that the hotel rooms where these freak-offs occurred were left in complete disarray. There was candle wax and oil everywhere.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
The Trial: Cassie Ventura Takes the Stand
But most of the jurors sat stone faced, listening to what amounts to the humiliating recollection of a decade's worth of a woman's sex life.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
The Trial: Cassie Ventura Takes the Stand
more of the same cassie ventura ended her testimony today taking jurors to a moment they've already seen video of what happened in the los angeles hotel in march of 2016. the jury had already seen the video but they saw it again with cassie narrating it saying that's me pointing to herself
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
The Trial: Cassie Ventura Takes the Stand
on video and telling the jury this was the first time, the first and only time she tried to escape a freak off before Sean Combs declared it over. She said she got hit by Combs. She had a black eye and she wanted to leave. But when she tried to, as the jury saw in video, he dragged her back.
Scamanda
Party’s Over, from Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
Sean Combs entered in a black T-shirt, gray sweatpants and sneakers. He actually looked a little stunned as he surveyed the imposing room. Several of his children and his sister were there watching as he pleaded not guilty. And then they saw him led out by the marshals after the judge ordered him into custody without bail. David. Aaron Guterski leading us off.